| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Bear" |
| Date: |
09 Oct 2005 08:47:46 PM |
| Object: |
Re: Influence of Buddhism on the Christians - Q? |
"Close, striking parallels exist between early Buddhist texts and what Bible
scholars postulate as the 'Q' material - ('Q' is shorthand for Quelle, the
German for 'source'). The earliest translations of Buddhist texts into Greek
date back to the time of king Asoka (3rd century BC).
"It seems highly probable that the core of the body of Q material was made
up of aphorisms, sayings originally ascribed to the Buddha but later
attributed to Jesus. To these sayings were added mini-stories and
micro-scenes to produce what became the Gospels of Matthew and Luke."
(Kenneth Humphreys; Sourcing the Legend - The Syncretic Heritage of
Christianity)
--
Bear
"Do good, for good is good to do; Spurn bribe of heaven and threat of hell."
.
|
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| User: "Katt" |
|
| Title: Re: Influence of Buddhism on the Christians - Q? |
09 Oct 2005 09:19:15 PM |
|
|
"Bear" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net> wrote in message
news:d_qdnX3Q7_LcVdTeRVn-vg@comcast.com...
"Close, striking parallels exist between early Buddhist texts and what
Bible
scholars postulate as the 'Q' material - ('Q' is shorthand for Quelle, the
German for 'source'). The earliest translations of Buddhist texts into
Greek
date back to the time of king Asoka (3rd century BC).
"It seems highly probable that the core of the body of Q material was made
up of aphorisms, sayings originally ascribed to the Buddha but later
attributed to Jesus. To these sayings were added mini-stories and
micro-scenes to produce what became the Gospels of Matthew and Luke."
(Kenneth Humphreys; Sourcing the Legend - The Syncretic Heritage of
Christianity)
This seems intuitively very reasonable to me. The problem with any attempt
to view even *one* of the 'synoptic gospels' as the genuine reporting of a
real individual's life is that the quoted sayings are simply *too
chaotically diverse*, *too sheerly contradictory* in philosophical and
ethical terms to be the utterances of a single, sane person. Thus the texts
that we have have clearly been assembled from a mixture of contemporary,
inherited, and specially fabricated material - some of it philosophically
sophisticated and morally developed, much of it revoltingly primitive and
idiotic - and insofar as some of the more developed stuff seems to betray an
origin within a compassionate philosophy, the finger could quite easily
point to imported Buddhistic texts.
I've sometimes thought of spending a weekend or two using different coloured
pens to highlight where I think the different kinds of source begin and end:
there are places where the 'crash of gears' is really quite striking.
Katt.
.
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|
| User: "Bear" |
|
| Title: Re: Influence of Buddhism on the Christians - Q? |
10 Oct 2005 12:23:26 AM |
|
|
"Katt" wrote
: "Bear" wrote
: > "Close, striking parallels exist between early Buddhist texts and what
: > Bible
: > scholars postulate as the 'Q' material - ('Q' is shorthand for Quelle,
the
: > German for 'source'). The earliest translations of Buddhist texts into
: > Greek
: > date back to the time of king Asoka (3rd century BC).
: >
: > "It seems highly probable that the core of the body of Q material was
made
: > up of aphorisms, sayings originally ascribed to the Buddha but later
: > attributed to Jesus. To these sayings were added mini-stories and
: > micro-scenes to produce what became the Gospels of Matthew and Luke."
: > (Kenneth Humphreys; Sourcing the Legend - The Syncretic Heritage of
: > Christianity)
:
: This seems intuitively very reasonable to me. The problem with any attempt
: to view even *one* of the 'synoptic gospels' as the genuine reporting of
a
: real individual's life is that the quoted sayings are simply *too
: chaotically diverse*, *too sheerly contradictory* in philosophical and
: ethical terms to be the utterances of a single, sane person. Thus the
texts
: that we have have clearly been assembled from a mixture of contemporary,
: inherited, and specially fabricated material - some of it philosophically
: sophisticated and morally developed, much of it revoltingly primitive and
: idiotic - and insofar as some of the more developed stuff seems to betray
an
: origin within a compassionate philosophy, the finger could quite easily
: point to imported Buddhistic texts.
:
: I've sometimes thought of spending a weekend or two using different
coloured
: pens to highlight where I think the different kinds of source begin and
end:
: there are places where the 'crash of gears' is really quite striking.
No doubt that doing so could be quite revealing.
.
|
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| User: "PMDavis" |
|
| Title: Re: Influence of Buddhism on the Christians - Q? |
10 Oct 2005 07:14:42 AM |
|
|
On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 01:23:26 -0400, "Bear" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net>
wrote:
"Katt" wrote
: "Bear" wrote
: > "Close, striking parallels exist between early Buddhist texts and what
: > Bible
: > scholars postulate as the 'Q' material - ('Q' is shorthand for Quelle,
the
: > German for 'source'). The earliest translations of Buddhist texts into
: > Greek
: > date back to the time of king Asoka (3rd century BC).
: >
: > "It seems highly probable that the core of the body of Q material was
made
: > up of aphorisms, sayings originally ascribed to the Buddha but later
: > attributed to Jesus. To these sayings were added mini-stories and
: > micro-scenes to produce what became the Gospels of Matthew and Luke."
: > (Kenneth Humphreys; Sourcing the Legend - The Syncretic Heritage of
: > Christianity)
:
: This seems intuitively very reasonable to me. The problem with any attempt
: to view even *one* of the 'synoptic gospels' as the genuine reporting of
a
: real individual's life is that the quoted sayings are simply *too
: chaotically diverse*, *too sheerly contradictory* in philosophical and
: ethical terms to be the utterances of a single, sane person. Thus the
texts
: that we have have clearly been assembled from a mixture of contemporary,
: inherited, and specially fabricated material - some of it philosophically
: sophisticated and morally developed, much of it revoltingly primitive and
: idiotic - and insofar as some of the more developed stuff seems to betray
an
: origin within a compassionate philosophy, the finger could quite easily
: point to imported Buddhistic texts.
:
: I've sometimes thought of spending a weekend or two using different
coloured
: pens to highlight where I think the different kinds of source begin and
end:
: there are places where the 'crash of gears' is really quite striking.
No doubt that doing so could be quite revealing.
No doubt doing so would be most revealing of the biases of the person
doing the marking, and offer relatively insight into the structure of
the texts themselves. But then, some persons are incredibly self-
referencing.
By "revoltingly primitive" can we assume that the speaker himself
presumes to be the final arbitor of what is morally "developed"?
.
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| User: "Martin Edwards" |
|
| Title: Re: Influence of Buddhism on the Christians - Q? |
10 Oct 2005 12:28:08 PM |
|
|
PMDavis wrote:
On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 01:23:26 -0400, "Bear" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net>
wrote:
"Katt" wrote
: "Bear" wrote
: > "Close, striking parallels exist between early Buddhist texts and what
: > Bible
: > scholars postulate as the 'Q' material - ('Q' is shorthand for Quelle,
the
: > German for 'source'). The earliest translations of Buddhist texts into
: > Greek
: > date back to the time of king Asoka (3rd century BC).
: >
: > "It seems highly probable that the core of the body of Q material was
made
: > up of aphorisms, sayings originally ascribed to the Buddha but later
: > attributed to Jesus. To these sayings were added mini-stories and
: > micro-scenes to produce what became the Gospels of Matthew and Luke."
: > (Kenneth Humphreys; Sourcing the Legend - The Syncretic Heritage of
: > Christianity)
:
: This seems intuitively very reasonable to me. The problem with any attempt
: to view even *one* of the 'synoptic gospels' as the genuine reporting of
a
: real individual's life is that the quoted sayings are simply *too
: chaotically diverse*, *too sheerly contradictory* in philosophical and
: ethical terms to be the utterances of a single, sane person. Thus the
texts
: that we have have clearly been assembled from a mixture of contemporary,
: inherited, and specially fabricated material - some of it philosophically
: sophisticated and morally developed, much of it revoltingly primitive and
: idiotic - and insofar as some of the more developed stuff seems to betray
an
: origin within a compassionate philosophy, the finger could quite easily
: point to imported Buddhistic texts.
:
: I've sometimes thought of spending a weekend or two using different
coloured
: pens to highlight where I think the different kinds of source begin and
end:
: there are places where the 'crash of gears' is really quite striking.
No doubt that doing so could be quite revealing.
No doubt doing so would be most revealing of the biases of the person
doing the marking, and offer relatively insight into the structure of
the texts themselves. But then, some persons are incredibly self-
referencing.
By "revoltingly primitive" can we assume that the speaker himself
presumes to be the final arbitor of what is morally "developed"?
The /de haut en bas/ tone readily identifies another Christian poster.
Also the absence of any argument, except attacking the perceived
conceits of the previous poster.
--
You can't fool me: there ain't no Sanity Clause - Chico Marx
www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1955
.
|
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| User: "PMDavis" |
|
| Title: Re: Influence of Buddhism on the Christians - Q? |
10 Oct 2005 07:44:49 PM |
|
|
On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:28:08 +0000 (UTC), Martin Edwards
<big_mart_98@yahoo.com> wrote:
PMDavis wrote:
On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 01:23:26 -0400, "Bear" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net>
wrote:
"Katt" wrote
: "Bear" wrote
: > "Close, striking parallels exist between early Buddhist texts and what
: > Bible
: > scholars postulate as the 'Q' material - ('Q' is shorthand for Quelle,
the
: > German for 'source'). The earliest translations of Buddhist texts into
: > Greek
: > date back to the time of king Asoka (3rd century BC).
: >
: > "It seems highly probable that the core of the body of Q material was
made
: > up of aphorisms, sayings originally ascribed to the Buddha but later
: > attributed to Jesus. To these sayings were added mini-stories and
: > micro-scenes to produce what became the Gospels of Matthew and Luke."
: > (Kenneth Humphreys; Sourcing the Legend - The Syncretic Heritage of
: > Christianity)
:
: This seems intuitively very reasonable to me. The problem with any attempt
: to view even *one* of the 'synoptic gospels' as the genuine reporting of
a
: real individual's life is that the quoted sayings are simply *too
: chaotically diverse*, *too sheerly contradictory* in philosophical and
: ethical terms to be the utterances of a single, sane person. Thus the
texts
: that we have have clearly been assembled from a mixture of contemporary,
: inherited, and specially fabricated material - some of it philosophically
: sophisticated and morally developed, much of it revoltingly primitive and
: idiotic - and insofar as some of the more developed stuff seems to betray
an
: origin within a compassionate philosophy, the finger could quite easily
: point to imported Buddhistic texts.
:
: I've sometimes thought of spending a weekend or two using different
coloured
: pens to highlight where I think the different kinds of source begin and
end:
: there are places where the 'crash of gears' is really quite striking.
No doubt that doing so could be quite revealing.
No doubt doing so would be most revealing of the biases of the person
doing the marking, and offer relatively insight into the structure of
the texts themselves. But then, some persons are incredibly self-
referencing.
By "revoltingly primitive" can we assume that the speaker himself
presumes to be the final arbitor of what is morally "developed"?
The /de haut en bas/ tone readily identifies another Christian poster.
Also the absence of any argument, except attacking the perceived
conceits of the previous poster.
How do you know that it isn't just a coincidence?
.
|
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| User: "o8TY" |
|
| Title: Re: Influence of Buddhism on the Christians - Q? |
11 Oct 2005 12:32:47 PM |
|
|
"PMDavis" <pmdlandarch@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:9n2mk197jpck13rprjbc5i0vfqor24fadr@4ax.com...
On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:28:08 +0000 (UTC), Martin Edwards
<big_mart_98@yahoo.com> wrote:
PMDavis wrote:
On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 01:23:26 -0400, "Bear" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net>
wrote:
"Katt" wrote
: "Bear" wrote
: > "Close, striking parallels exist between early Buddhist texts and
what
: > Bible
: > scholars postulate as the 'Q' material - ('Q' is shorthand for
Quelle,
the
: > German for 'source'). The earliest translations of Buddhist texts
into
: > Greek
: > date back to the time of king Asoka (3rd century BC).
: >
: > "It seems highly probable that the core of the body of Q material
was
made
: > up of aphorisms, sayings originally ascribed to the Buddha but
later
: > attributed to Jesus. To these sayings were added mini-stories and
: > micro-scenes to produce what became the Gospels of Matthew and
Luke."
: > (Kenneth Humphreys; Sourcing the Legend - The Syncretic Heritage of
: > Christianity)
:
: This seems intuitively very reasonable to me. The problem with any
attempt
: to view even *one* of the 'synoptic gospels' as the genuine
reporting of
a
: real individual's life is that the quoted sayings are simply *too
: chaotically diverse*, *too sheerly contradictory* in philosophical
and
: ethical terms to be the utterances of a single, sane person. Thus the
texts
: that we have have clearly been assembled from a mixture of
contemporary,
: inherited, and specially fabricated material - some of it
philosophically
: sophisticated and morally developed, much of it revoltingly primitive
and
: idiotic - and insofar as some of the more developed stuff seems to
betray
an
: origin within a compassionate philosophy, the finger could quite
easily
: point to imported Buddhistic texts.
:
: I've sometimes thought of spending a weekend or two using different
coloured
: pens to highlight where I think the different kinds of source begin
and
end:
: there are places where the 'crash of gears' is really quite striking.
No doubt that doing so could be quite revealing.
No doubt doing so would be most revealing of the biases of the person
doing the marking, and offer relatively insight into the structure of
the texts themselves. But then, some persons are incredibly self-
referencing.
By "revoltingly primitive" can we assume that the speaker himself
presumes to be the final arbitor of what is morally "developed"?
The /de haut en bas/ tone readily identifies another Christian poster.
Also the absence of any argument, except attacking the perceived
conceits of the previous poster.
How do you know that it isn't just a coincidence?
The amanita muscaria and psilocybin species of magic mushroom thrived all
the way across from Britain to China and Japan. Same drugs, same ramblings.
.
|
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| User: "Martin Edwards" |
|
| Title: Re: Influence of Buddhism on the Christians - Q? |
12 Oct 2005 12:45:05 PM |
|
|
o8TY wrote:
"PMDavis" <pmdlandarch@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:9n2mk197jpck13rprjbc5i0vfqor24fadr@4ax.com...
On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:28:08 +0000 (UTC), Martin Edwards
<big_mart_98@yahoo.com> wrote:
PMDavis wrote:
On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 01:23:26 -0400, "Bear" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net>
wrote:
"Katt" wrote
: "Bear" wrote
: > "Close, striking parallels exist between early Buddhist texts and
what
: > Bible
: > scholars postulate as the 'Q' material - ('Q' is shorthand for
Quelle,
the
: > German for 'source'). The earliest translations of Buddhist texts
into
: > Greek
: > date back to the time of king Asoka (3rd century BC).
: >
: > "It seems highly probable that the core of the body of Q material
was
made
: > up of aphorisms, sayings originally ascribed to the Buddha but
later
: > attributed to Jesus. To these sayings were added mini-stories and
: > micro-scenes to produce what became the Gospels of Matthew and
Luke."
: > (Kenneth Humphreys; Sourcing the Legend - The Syncretic Heritage of
: > Christianity)
:
: This seems intuitively very reasonable to me. The problem with any
attempt
: to view even *one* of the 'synoptic gospels' as the genuine
reporting of
a
: real individual's life is that the quoted sayings are simply *too
: chaotically diverse*, *too sheerly contradictory* in philosophical
and
: ethical terms to be the utterances of a single, sane person. Thus the
texts
: that we have have clearly been assembled from a mixture of
contemporary,
: inherited, and specially fabricated material - some of it
philosophically
: sophisticated and morally developed, much of it revoltingly primitive
and
: idiotic - and insofar as some of the more developed stuff seems to
betray
an
: origin within a compassionate philosophy, the finger could quite
easily
: point to imported Buddhistic texts.
:
: I've sometimes thought of spending a weekend or two using different
coloured
: pens to highlight where I think the different kinds of source begin
and
end:
: there are places where the 'crash of gears' is really quite striking.
No doubt that doing so could be quite revealing.
No doubt doing so would be most revealing of the biases of the person
doing the marking, and offer relatively insight into the structure of
the texts themselves. But then, some persons are incredibly self-
referencing.
By "revoltingly primitive" can we assume that the speaker himself
presumes to be the final arbitor of what is morally "developed"?
The /de haut en bas/ tone readily identifies another Christian poster.
Also the absence of any argument, except attacking the perceived
conceits of the previous poster.
How do you know that it isn't just a coincidence?
The amanita muscaria and psilocybin species of magic mushroom thrived all
the way across from Britain to China and Japan. Same drugs, same ramblings.
I wish those seagulls would shut up.
--
You can't fool me: there ain't no Sanity Clause - Chico Marx
www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1955
.
|
|
|
| User: "o8TY" |
|
| Title: Re: Influence of Buddhism on the Christians - Q? |
12 Oct 2005 01:52:39 PM |
|
|
"Martin Edwards" <big_mart_98@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:diji30$5fq$3@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
o8TY wrote:
"PMDavis" <pmdlandarch@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:9n2mk197jpck13rprjbc5i0vfqor24fadr@4ax.com...
On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:28:08 +0000 (UTC), Martin Edwards
<big_mart_98@yahoo.com> wrote:
PMDavis wrote:
On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 01:23:26 -0400, "Bear" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net>
wrote:
"Katt" wrote
: "Bear" wrote
: > "Close, striking parallels exist between early Buddhist texts and
what
: > Bible
: > scholars postulate as the 'Q' material - ('Q' is shorthand for
Quelle,
the
: > German for 'source'). The earliest translations of Buddhist texts
into
: > Greek
: > date back to the time of king Asoka (3rd century BC).
: >
: > "It seems highly probable that the core of the body of Q material
was
made
: > up of aphorisms, sayings originally ascribed to the Buddha but
later
: > attributed to Jesus. To these sayings were added mini-stories and
: > micro-scenes to produce what became the Gospels of Matthew and
Luke."
: > (Kenneth Humphreys; Sourcing the Legend - The Syncretic Heritage
of
: > Christianity)
:
: This seems intuitively very reasonable to me. The problem with any
attempt
: to view even *one* of the 'synoptic gospels' as the genuine
reporting of
a
: real individual's life is that the quoted sayings are simply *too
: chaotically diverse*, *too sheerly contradictory* in philosophical
and
: ethical terms to be the utterances of a single, sane person. Thus
the
texts
: that we have have clearly been assembled from a mixture of
contemporary,
: inherited, and specially fabricated material - some of it
philosophically
: sophisticated and morally developed, much of it revoltingly
primitive
and
: idiotic - and insofar as some of the more developed stuff seems to
betray
an
: origin within a compassionate philosophy, the finger could quite
easily
: point to imported Buddhistic texts.
:
: I've sometimes thought of spending a weekend or two using different
coloured
: pens to highlight where I think the different kinds of source begin
and
end:
: there are places where the 'crash of gears' is really quite
striking.
No doubt that doing so could be quite revealing.
No doubt doing so would be most revealing of the biases of the person
doing the marking, and offer relatively insight into the structure of
the texts themselves. But then, some persons are incredibly self-
referencing.
By "revoltingly primitive" can we assume that the speaker himself
presumes to be the final arbitor of what is morally "developed"?
The /de haut en bas/ tone readily identifies another Christian poster.
Also the absence of any argument, except attacking the perceived
conceits of the previous poster.
How do you know that it isn't just a coincidence?
The amanita muscaria and psilocybin species of magic mushroom thrived
all
the way across from Britain to China and Japan. Same drugs, same
ramblings.
I wish those seagulls would shut up.
Maybe they sense a storm.
--
You can't fool me: there ain't no Sanity Clause - Chico Marx
www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1955
.
|
|
|
|
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|
| User: "Martin Edwards" |
|
| Title: Re: Influence of Buddhism on the Christians - Q? |
12 Oct 2005 12:43:16 PM |
|
|
PMDavis wrote:
On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:28:08 +0000 (UTC), Martin Edwards
<big_mart_98@yahoo.com> wrote:
PMDavis wrote:
On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 01:23:26 -0400, "Bear" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net>
wrote:
"Katt" wrote
: "Bear" wrote
: > "Close, striking parallels exist between early Buddhist texts and what
: > Bible
: > scholars postulate as the 'Q' material - ('Q' is shorthand for Quelle,
the
: > German for 'source'). The earliest translations of Buddhist texts into
: > Greek
: > date back to the time of king Asoka (3rd century BC).
: >
: > "It seems highly probable that the core of the body of Q material was
made
: > up of aphorisms, sayings originally ascribed to the Buddha but later
: > attributed to Jesus. To these sayings were added mini-stories and
: > micro-scenes to produce what became the Gospels of Matthew and Luke."
: > (Kenneth Humphreys; Sourcing the Legend - The Syncretic Heritage of
: > Christianity)
:
: This seems intuitively very reasonable to me. The problem with any attempt
: to view even *one* of the 'synoptic gospels' as the genuine reporting of
a
: real individual's life is that the quoted sayings are simply *too
: chaotically diverse*, *too sheerly contradictory* in philosophical and
: ethical terms to be the utterances of a single, sane person. Thus the
texts
: that we have have clearly been assembled from a mixture of contemporary,
: inherited, and specially fabricated material - some of it philosophically
: sophisticated and morally developed, much of it revoltingly primitive and
: idiotic - and insofar as some of the more developed stuff seems to betray
an
: origin within a compassionate philosophy, the finger could quite easily
: point to imported Buddhistic texts.
:
: I've sometimes thought of spending a weekend or two using different
coloured
: pens to highlight where I think the different kinds of source begin and
end:
: there are places where the 'crash of gears' is really quite striking.
No doubt that doing so could be quite revealing.
No doubt doing so would be most revealing of the biases of the person
doing the marking, and offer relatively insight into the structure of
the texts themselves. But then, some persons are incredibly self-
referencing.
By "revoltingly primitive" can we assume that the speaker himself
presumes to be the final arbitor of what is morally "developed"?
The /de haut en bas/ tone readily identifies another Christian poster.
Also the absence of any argument, except attacking the perceived
conceits of the previous poster.
How do you know that it isn't just a coincidence?
:-) Nice one.
--
You can't fool me: there ain't no Sanity Clause - Chico Marx
www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1955
.
|
|
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| User: "PMDavis" |
|
| Title: Re: Influence of Buddhism on the Christians - Q? |
17 Oct 2005 06:55:35 AM |
|
|
On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 17:43:16 +0000 (UTC), Martin Edwards
<big_mart_98@yahoo.com> wrote:
PMDavis wrote:
On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:28:08 +0000 (UTC), Martin Edwards
<big_mart_98@yahoo.com> wrote:
PMDavis wrote:
On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 01:23:26 -0400, "Bear" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net>
wrote:
"Katt" wrote
: "Bear" wrote
: > "Close, striking parallels exist between early Buddhist texts and what
: > Bible
: > scholars postulate as the 'Q' material - ('Q' is shorthand for Quelle,
the
: > German for 'source'). The earliest translations of Buddhist texts into
: > Greek
: > date back to the time of king Asoka (3rd century BC).
: >
: > "It seems highly probable that the core of the body of Q material was
made
: > up of aphorisms, sayings originally ascribed to the Buddha but later
: > attributed to Jesus. To these sayings were added mini-stories and
: > micro-scenes to produce what became the Gospels of Matthew and Luke."
: > (Kenneth Humphreys; Sourcing the Legend - The Syncretic Heritage of
: > Christianity)
:
: This seems intuitively very reasonable to me. The problem with any attempt
: to view even *one* of the 'synoptic gospels' as the genuine reporting of
a
: real individual's life is that the quoted sayings are simply *too
: chaotically diverse*, *too sheerly contradictory* in philosophical and
: ethical terms to be the utterances of a single, sane person. Thus the
texts
: that we have have clearly been assembled from a mixture of contemporary,
: inherited, and specially fabricated material - some of it philosophically
: sophisticated and morally developed, much of it revoltingly primitive and
: idiotic - and insofar as some of the more developed stuff seems to betray
an
: origin within a compassionate philosophy, the finger could quite easily
: point to imported Buddhistic texts.
:
: I've sometimes thought of spending a weekend or two using different
coloured
: pens to highlight where I think the different kinds of source begin and
end:
: there are places where the 'crash of gears' is really quite striking.
No doubt that doing so could be quite revealing.
No doubt doing so would be most revealing of the biases of the person
doing the marking, and offer relatively insight into the structure of
the texts themselves. But then, some persons are incredibly self-
referencing.
By "revoltingly primitive" can we assume that the speaker himself
presumes to be the final arbitor of what is morally "developed"?
The /de haut en bas/ tone readily identifies another Christian poster.
Also the absence of any argument, except attacking the perceived
conceits of the previous poster.
How do you know that it isn't just a coincidence?
:-) Nice one.
Thank you, glad you caught it...
.
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| User: "95 Thesen" |
|
| Title: Re: Influence of Buddhism on the Christians - Q? |
10 Oct 2005 09:23:16 PM |
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Martin,
How right you are! Just a superficial discussion with not one single
example of a common aphorism,
parable, or apothegm.
They post in order to sound philosophical and sophisticated without the
existence of any real
argument or thesis.
David H
~~~~~~~~~~~~
.
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| User: "Martin Edwards" |
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| Title: Re: Influence of Buddhism on the Christians - Q? |
12 Oct 2005 12:44:06 PM |
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95 Thesen wrote:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Martin,
How right you are! Just a superficial discussion with not one single
example of a common aphorism,
parable, or apothegm.
They post in order to sound philosophical and sophisticated without the
existence of any real
argument or thesis.
David H
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yeah, yeah, right.
--
You can't fool me: there ain't no Sanity Clause - Chico Marx
www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1955
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Influence of Buddhism on the Christians - Q? |
10 Oct 2005 08:12:43 AM |
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Bear wrote:
"Close, striking parallels exist between early Buddhist texts and what Bible
scholars postulate as the 'Q' material - ('Q' is shorthand for Quelle, the
German for 'source'). The earliest translations of Buddhist texts into Greek
date back to the time of king Asoka (3rd century BC).
"It seems highly probable that the core of the body of Q material was made
up of aphorisms, sayings originally ascribed to the Buddha but later
attributed to Jesus. To these sayings were added mini-stories and
micro-scenes to produce what became the Gospels of Matthew and Luke."
(Kenneth Humphreys; Sourcing the Legend - The Syncretic Heritage of
Christianity)
Religion followed the silk: India and China through Persia
and then into Europe. It seems more than coincidental that
the ones wearing the silk were the ones foisting religion
and tyranny on the poor.
Bob Dog
Atheist #153 = 1^3 + 5^3 + 3^3
EAC's chief cook and brainwasher
-----
"I always thought our house was haunted 'cause nobody said boo to me."
- John Hiatt
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| User: "Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun]" |
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| Title: Re: Influence of Buddhism on the Christians - Q? |
11 Oct 2005 02:42:05 AM |
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wrote:
Bear wrote:
"Close, striking parallels exist between early Buddhist texts and what Bible
scholars postulate as the 'Q' material - ('Q' is shorthand for Quelle, the
German for 'source'). The earliest translations of Buddhist texts into Greek
date back to the time of king Asoka (3rd century BC).
"It seems highly probable that the core of the body of Q material was made
up of aphorisms, sayings originally ascribed to the Buddha but later
attributed to Jesus. To these sayings were added mini-stories and
micro-scenes to produce what became the Gospels of Matthew and Luke."
(Kenneth Humphreys; Sourcing the Legend - The Syncretic Heritage of
Christianity)
Religion followed the silk: India and China through Persia
and then into Europe. It seems more than coincidental that
the ones wearing the silk were the ones foisting religion
and tyranny on the poor.
Bob Dog
Atheist #153 = 1^3 + 5^3 + 3^3
EAC's chief cook and brainwasher
"Religion followed the silk."
Suffice it to say that religious history is something you have gleaned
from vacuous PBS "documentaries."
Regarding Buddhism, no that is false;
one can find Indian proverbs in `mishley` / Book of Proverbs and
possibly Indian philosophy in Qohelet and Agur.
Jesus / yeshua however did not go to school in Afghanistan.
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| User: "skyeyes" |
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| Title: Re: Influence of Buddhism on the Christians - Q? |
12 Oct 2005 02:35:15 PM |
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Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun] wrote:
Jesus / yeshua however did not go to school in Afghanistan.
There are about 28 years' of Yeshua's life that are unaccounted for.
For all we know, if he existed at all, he may well have traveled to
Afghanistan, or India. There's no way of knowing.
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat Herding
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| User: "Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun]" |
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| Title: Re: Influence of Buddhism on the Christians - Q? |
13 Oct 2005 01:53:34 AM |
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skyeyes wrote:
Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun] wrote:
Jesus / yeshua however did not go to school in Afghanistan.
There are about 28 years' of Yeshua's life that are unaccounted for.
For all we know, if he existed at all, he may well have traveled to
Afghanistan, or India. There's no way of knowing.
or, judging from his controversies with the perushim and tzadoqim, as
well as his renunciation of asceticism, and adding to that his
tremendous concern for the poor,
it seems more likely he was a former Qumran sect Yehudi like his cousin
Yochanan.
whose work he continued and revised.
Afghanistan ? Why not place him in North America with the Mormons ?
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat Herding
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| User: "skyeyes" |
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| Title: Re: Influence of Buddhism on the Christians - Q? |
17 Oct 2005 06:12:33 PM |
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Ha SATAN wrote:
Afghanistan ? Why not place him in North America with the Mormons ?
You can ride a donkey from Israel/Palestine to Afghanistan, if you
really want to. You can join a caravan. You can even walk. Long foot
journeys have been taken by humans since we *became* humans, and even
before (Homo erectus got around some, you know).
Crossing a major ocean (Atlantic/Pacific) was a little more problematic
for a first-century Jewish mystic, even if he actually existed.
Better and more educated minds than mine and yours (Joseph Campbell,
for one) speculated that Jesus could easily have traveled to India. He
also was of the opinion that Buddhist missionaries had entered the
Middle East before the time of Jesus, which accounts for the distinctly
Buddhist flavor of some quotes of Jesus that didn't make it into the
orthodox Gospels. (E.g., "The Kingdom of God is spread upon this
earth, but men do no see it." - Gospel according to Thomas)
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding
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| User: "Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun]" |
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| Title: Re: Influence of Buddhism on the Christians - Q? |
18 Oct 2005 03:22:14 AM |
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skyeyes wrote:
Ha SATAN wrote:
Afghanistan ? Why not place him in North America with the Mormons ?
You can ride a donkey from Israel/Palestine to Afghanistan, if you
really want to. You can join a caravan. You can even walk. Long foot
journeys have been taken by humans since we *became* humans, and even
before (Homo erectus got around some, you know).
all irrelevant based on the behavior of the Yehudi in Mattityahu ; what
you propose is a Hollywood film not a necessity or even a likelihood
for a torah observant Jew.
all this tells me is that you don't have a good grasp of what is going
on there in the Jewish authors of the New Testament nor in first
century Jerusalem / Judea.
Crossing a major ocean (Atlantic/Pacific) was a little more problematic
for a first-century Jewish mystic, even if he actually existed.
Better and more educated minds than mine and yours (Joseph Campbell,
for one) speculated that Jesus could easily have traveled to India.
i have read all of Joseph Campbell's works many many years ago and
thank goodness i do not have a mind such as his, he is a fool.
The man had a very childish and superficial understanding of religion
especially the Asian variety.
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| User: "Martin Edwards" |
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| Title: Re: Influence of Buddhism on the Christians - Q? |
18 Oct 2005 12:44:00 PM |
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Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun] wrote:
i have read all of Joseph Campbell's works many many years ago and
thank goodness i do not have a mind such as his, he is a fool.
The man had a very childish and superficial understanding of religion
especially the Asian variety.
Could you fill us in a little.
--
You can't fool me: there ain't no Sanity Clause - Chico Marx
www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1955
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| User: "Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun]" |
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| Title: Re: Influence of Buddhism on the Christians - Q? |
23 Oct 2005 12:28:28 AM |
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Martin Edwards wrote:
Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun] wrote:
i have read all of Joseph Campbell's works many many years ago and
thank goodness i do not have a mind such as his, he is a fool.
The man had a very childish and superficial understanding of religion
especially the Asian variety.
Could you fill us in a little.
do not want to spend much time on him but since i should be responsible
for my assertion i will refer you to his views on Asia and 'eastern'
weltanschauung.
he might have spent more time living there and actually inhabiting the
symbolic world of one the region's major languages. but no we see that
his trip to India sends him running back home he has had enough and
does not want to really know what is going on.
he is limited to knowledge of aspects of the West, and the attempt to
build a compendium crossing cultures is ridiculous.
Theodore de Bary of Columbia university in his superficial way probably
has more insight than Campbell into the East so-called.
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| User: "Martin Edwards" |
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| Title: Re: Influence of Buddhism on the Christians - Q? |
10 Oct 2005 12:24:59 PM |
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Bear wrote:
"Close, striking parallels exist between early Buddhist texts and what Bible
scholars postulate as the 'Q' material - ('Q' is shorthand for Quelle, the
German for 'source'). The earliest translations of Buddhist texts into Greek
date back to the time of king Asoka (3rd century BC).
"It seems highly probable that the core of the body of Q material was made
up of aphorisms, sayings originally ascribed to the Buddha but later
attributed to Jesus. To these sayings were added mini-stories and
micro-scenes to produce what became the Gospels of Matthew and Luke."
(Kenneth Humphreys; Sourcing the Legend - The Syncretic Heritage of
Christianity)
The Cynics were around in Greece at the same time. It may have been a
widespread philosophical movement that later got mixed up with religion,
mainly to ill effect.
--
You can't fool me: there ain't no Sanity Clause - Chico Marx
www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1955
.
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| User: "rick++" |
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| Title: Re: Influence of Buddhism on the Christians - Q? |
17 Oct 2005 08:30:43 AM |
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The big mixing pot was Persia. During the Babylonian captivity
many of Jewish religious books reached their current form and
borrowed Persian ideas like angels and devils.
Persia spanned all the way from the Ioanian sea and Egypt to India.
Alexander's empire mostly echoed its borders.
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| User: "Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun]" |
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| Title: Re: Influence of Buddhism on the Christians - Q? |
17 Oct 2005 09:09:47 AM |
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rick++ wrote:
The big mixing pot was Persia. During the Babylonian captivity
many of Jewish religious books reached their current form and
borrowed Persian ideas like angels and devils.
Persia spanned all the way from the Ioanian sea and Egypt to India.
Alexander's empire mostly echoed its borders.
yes the hypothesis is that the Persians created the culture but
although we have nothing in the way of a temple of solomon nor even a
coin from Shlomo's alleged fleet circumnavigating the contemporary
world every three years the little that is there prior to 600 BCE
cannot be discounted.
there is as much evidence that Egypt is the chief contributor and i
have yet to hear how to absorb that into the Persian hypothesis.
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| User: "Bear" |
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| Title: Re: Influence of Buddhism on the Christians - Q? |
17 Oct 2005 06:02:16 PM |
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"Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun]" wrote
: rick++ wrote:
: > The big mixing pot was Persia. During the Babylonian captivity
: > many of Jewish religious books reached their current form and
: > borrowed Persian ideas like angels and devils.
: > Persia spanned all the way from the Ioanian sea and Egypt to India.
: > Alexander's empire mostly echoed its borders.
:
: yes the hypothesis is that the Persians created the culture but
: although we have nothing in the way of a temple of solomon nor even a
: coin from Shlomo's alleged fleet circumnavigating the contemporary
: world every three years the little that is there prior to 600 BCE
: cannot be discounted.
:
: there is as much evidence that Egypt is the chief contributor and i
: have yet to hear how to absorb that into the Persian hypothesis.
Please present the evidence of undiluted Egyptian religion as the "chief"
contributor. Do you deny any influence from Indian proverbs and philosophy
in Egyptian religion?
--
Bear
"Many are those who trade in tricks and simulated miracles, duping the
foolish multitude; and if nobody unmasked their subterfuges, they would
impose them on everyone." - Leonardo da Vinci (Manuscript F, Institut de
France, 5v)
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| User: "rick++" |
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| Title: Re: Influence of Buddhism on the Christians - Q? |
17 Oct 2005 08:32:19 AM |
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There is long tradition in the Church some of the first missions
were to India (St. Thomas). But I've seen little archeaological
evidence of this.
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| User: "Martin Edwards" |
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| Title: Re: Influence of Buddhism on the Christians - Q? |
18 Oct 2005 12:47:34 PM |
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rick++ wrote:
There is long tradition in the Church some of the first missions
were to India (St. Thomas). But I've seen little archeaological
evidence of this.
The Mar Thoma Church, which was already there when Roman Catholics
"discovered" India, has its liturgy in Syriac. The faithful now Speak
the local languages, but still call themselves Syrian Christians.
--
You can't fool me: there ain't no Sanity Clause - Chico Marx
www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1955
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| User: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?cantc=FF?=" |
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| Title: Re: Influence of Buddhism on the Christians - Q? |
18 Oct 2005 01:29:38 PM |
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Martin Edwards wrote:
rick++ wrote:
There is long tradition in the Church some of the first missions
were to India (St. Thomas). But I've seen little archeaological
evidence of this.
The Mar Thoma Church, which was already there when Roman Catholics
"discovered" India, has its liturgy in Syriac.
I heard that there were Christian sabbath-keepers in some part of China.
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| User: "Martin Edwards" |
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| Title: Re: Influence of Buddhism on the Christians - Q? |
19 Oct 2005 11:35:49 AM |
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cantcÿ wrote:
Martin Edwards wrote:
rick++ wrote:
There is long tradition in the Church some of the first missions
were to India (St. Thomas). But I've seen little archeaological
evidence of this.
The Mar Thoma Church, which was already there when Roman Catholics
"discovered" India, has its liturgy in Syriac.
I heard that there were Christian sabbath-keepers in some part of China.
Possibly the descendants of Nestorians.
--
You can't fool me: there ain't no Sanity Clause - Chico Marx
www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1955
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| User: "Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun]" |
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| Title: Re: Influence of Buddhism on the Christians - Q? |
20 Oct 2005 10:14:10 PM |
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Martin Edwards wrote:
cantcy wrote:
Martin Edwards wrote:
rick++ wrote:
There is long tradition in the Church some of the first missions
were to India (St. Thomas). But I've seen little archeaological
evidence of this.
The Mar Thoma Church, which was already there when Roman Catholics
"discovered" India, has its liturgy in Syriac.
I heard that there were Christian sabbath-keepers in some part of China.
Possibly the descendants of Nestorians.
Probably one is referring to the `tai ping tian guo` a.k.a. Taiping
Rebellion.
a 19th century phenomenon introduced by Westerners.
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| User: "PMDavis" |
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| Title: Re: Influence of Buddhism on the Christians - Q? |
21 Oct 2005 09:53:50 PM |
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On 20 Oct 2005 20:14:10 -0700, "Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun]"
<hasatan@grex.cyberspace.org> wrote:
Martin Edwards wrote:
cantcy wrote:
Martin Edwards wrote:
rick++ wrote:
There is long tradition in the Church some of the first missions
were to India (St. Thomas). But I've seen little archeaological
evidence of this.
The Mar Thoma Church, which was already there when Roman Catholics
"discovered" India, has its liturgy in Syriac.
I heard that there were Christian sabbath-keepers in some part of China.
Possibly the descendants of Nestorians.
Probably one is referring to the `tai ping tian guo` a.k.a. Taiping
Rebellion.
a 19th century phenomenon introduced by Westerners.
Actually there were inscriptions indicating a small community of Jews
or Christians were living in, I believe, Shanghai. It died out (was
absorbed by the local population) sometime before the Jesuits arrived
in the 16th/17th century. The Christian imperative to evangelize all
the "uttermost parts of the earth" dates from the 1st century. It was
the last command that Jesus left us with.
Unrelated to some of the more egregious things that westerners later
left them with.
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