| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
24 Sep 2003 08:10:06 AM |
| Object: |
Re: interferance in free expression? |
(K C) wrote:
:|Consider this..
LOL
:|
:|You often hear some few individuals upset because some governmental
:|official spoke or did something religious, even though nearly every
:|President of our history has done just that. What you don't hear that
:|often, by these individuals, is the other side of the coin, the places
:|where the state interferes with religious expression.
:|
:|Thomas Jefferson was a single man in the Constitutional Convention,
Jefferson never attended the Constitutional convention.
:|and he became President after Washington and Adams. Washington was
:|the chairman of the Constitutional Convention and Adams was greatly
:|involved, with Washington and others, in the development of our
:|nation. Finally, third in line, Jefferson became President. As
:|President Jefferson wrote that there is within the Constitution a wall
:|seperating the state from the "church". Despite the fact that that
:|very letter included Jefferson, speaking as President, talking abour
:|his own faith, some concluded later that Jefferson was trying to ban
:|all governmental officials from expressing their faith, this despite
:|that fact that Jefferson paid the military to play hymns in the church
:|he attended in the congress' building.
Jefferson didn't separate church and state, The men who framed the
Constitution did.
He merely observed what they had done.
Thou doest try far too hard to find something anything valid to hang your
hat on and keep failing.
.
|
|
| User: "Thales" |
|
| Title: Re: interferance in free expression? |
25 Sep 2003 08:58:28 AM |
|
|
wrote in message news:<8t53nv0r22cjtkmpu7ufpbmjrr2uav0ksl@4ax.com>...
kands00@hotmail.com (K C) wrote:
:|Consider this..
LOL
:|
:|You often hear some few individuals upset because some governmental
:|official spoke or did something religious, even though nearly every
:|President of our history has done just that. What you don't hear that
:|often, by these individuals, is the other side of the coin, the places
:|where the state interferes with religious expression.
:|
:|Thomas Jefferson was a single man in the Constitutional Convention,
Jefferson never attended the Constitutional convention.
:|and he became President after Washington and Adams. Washington was
:|the chairman of the Constitutional Convention and Adams was greatly
:|involved, with Washington and others, in the development of our
:|nation. Finally, third in line, Jefferson became President. As
:|President Jefferson wrote that there is within the Constitution a wall
:|seperating the state from the "church". Despite the fact that that
:|very letter included Jefferson, speaking as President, talking abour
:|his own faith, some concluded later that Jefferson was trying to ban
:|all governmental officials from expressing their faith, this despite
:|that fact that Jefferson paid the military to play hymns in the church
:|he attended in the congress' building.
Jefferson didn't separate church and state, The men who framed the
Constitution did.
He merely observed what they had done.
Thou doest try far too hard to find something anything valid to hang your
hat on and keep failing.
Yes, Jefferson was in France.
Questions for you:
Wasnt Jefferson's Virginia law on religious liberty the model for the
clauses on religion in the Constitution? 6th art and 1st amendment~?
Wasnt Madison in contact with Jefferson during the periods surrounding
the Constitutional Conventions?
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: interferance in free expression? |
27 Sep 2003 06:17:52 AM |
|
|
(Thales) wrote:
:|buckeye-ELO@nospam.net wrote in message news:<8t53nv0r22cjtkmpu7ufpbmjrr2uav0ksl@4ax.com>...
:|> (K C) wrote:
:|>
:|> >:|Consider this..
:|>
:|> LOL
:|>
:|> >:|
:|> >:|You often hear some few individuals upset because some governmental
:|> >:|official spoke or did something religious, even though nearly every
:|> >:|President of our history has done just that. What you don't hear that
:|> >:|often, by these individuals, is the other side of the coin, the places
:|> >:|where the state interferes with religious expression.
:|> >:|
:|> >:|Thomas Jefferson was a single man in the Constitutional Convention,
:|>
:|>
:|> Jefferson never attended the Constitutional convention.
:|>
:|>
:|> >:|and he became President after Washington and Adams. Washington was
:|> >:|the chairman of the Constitutional Convention and Adams was greatly
:|> >:|involved, with Washington and others, in the development of our
:|> >:|nation. Finally, third in line, Jefferson became President. As
:|> >:|President Jefferson wrote that there is within the Constitution a wall
:|> >:|seperating the state from the "church". Despite the fact that that
:|> >:|very letter included Jefferson, speaking as President, talking abour
:|> >:|his own faith, some concluded later that Jefferson was trying to ban
:|> >:|all governmental officials from expressing their faith, this despite
:|> >:|that fact that Jefferson paid the military to play hymns in the church
:|> >:|he attended in the congress' building.
:|>
:|>
:|> Jefferson didn't separate church and state, The men who framed the
:|> Constitution did.
:|>
:|> He merely observed what they had done.
:|>
:|> Thou doest try far too hard to find something anything valid to hang your
:|> hat on and keep failing.
:|
:|Yes, Jefferson was in France.
:|
:|Questions for you:
:|
:|Wasnt Jefferson's Virginia law on religious liberty the model for the
:|clauses on religion in the Constitution? 6th art and 1st amendment~?
Yes and no.
Jefferson's Statute for Religious freedom had nothing to do with Article
VI, Section or paragraph III of the Constitution.
At least not that anyone can document.
While Madison and Charles Pinckney (Delegate from South Carolina) might
have conferred behind the scenes, it was Picnkney who actually presented
what became the religious test ban to the Constitutional Convention.
Madison Supported Picnkney on another suggestion he offered which was for a
national university that would be basically religious free.
Picnkney also played a major role in revising the Constitutional of South
Carolina which disestablished religion in that state or at least was a
major step in that direction.
As for the 1st Amendment, one could say that there probably was a link.
Madison used his experiences in Virginia during the General assessment for
teachers of the Christian religion battles as well as his participation is
framing the free exercise clauses of the Virginia Declaration of Rights. He
led the batte that defeated that general Assessment bill sponsored and
supported by Patrick Henry and that in turn enabled him to present to the
legislature in Virginia Jefferson's statue which was passed into law.
Madison also was well read on the various proposals that had been offered
at the several state ratifying conventions with regards for amendments to
the Constitution, including those offered in at the Virginia ratifying
convention.
So it would have been a combination of jefferson's bill, the Virginia
Declaration of Rights and suggestions from other state conventions that was
the basis for the 18 or so proposed articles he presented to the Congress
june 18, 1789
:|Wasnt Madison in contact with Jefferson during the periods surrounding
:|the Constitutional Conventions?
They exchanged letters throughout the entire time Jefferson was In France.
Actually they exchanged correspondence of various types on a regular basis
from June 8, 1779 till May 6, 1826.
They exchanged enough that they fill 3 volumes
The Republic of Letters, The Correspondence between Thomas Jefferson and
James Madison, 1776-1826. Edited by James Morton Smith 3 Volumes. W. W.
Norton & Company (1995)
.
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