| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"MsAnthrope" |
| Date: |
03 Feb 2005 08:41:57 AM |
| Object: |
Re: Is Anyone Here an ADVENTIST?! |
In article <1107423912.431243.254020@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, Orion7
says...
Don't you know evolution is a farce? You are obviously a product of the
brain washing which goes on in our Schools, Colleges and Universities.
I have seen the desperate lengths these Professors and Scientists go to
make people believe in evolution, even fabricating evidence to support
their unsupportable theories.
1st Rule of Creationism: Ignored evidence will go away
2nd Rule of Creationism: Interpret any challenge as personal insult
3rd Rule of Creationism: Claim evidence then quietly slip away
4th Rule of Creationism: Don't be confused by facts
5th Rule of Creationism: Insist that science ignores your proof
6th Rule of Creationism: Claim superiority for Christian education.
7th Rule of Creationism: Always appear to know more than you do.
8th Rule of Creationism: Shift the burden of proof to your critics.
9th Rule of Creationism: Lying for the Lord is okay.
10th Rule of Creationism: Never acknowledge your demonstrated errors
--
MsAnthrope
http://web.newsguy.com/rubyred
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Objective Evidence |
04 Feb 2005 04:25:25 PM |
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On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 20:34:55 -0800, "Andrew" <andrew.321remov@usa.net>
said in alt.atheism:
"Al Klein" wrote in message news:d4l501lrudpteub8rbhovgag8gp19v06c9@4ax.com...
"Orion7" said in alt.atheism:
The fool is wrong. God is real.
Objective evidence?
Tell me Al....where is the *objective evidence* that life came from nonliving
chemicals which came from a primeval explosion which came from nothing.
IOW, you have none. (Even if you could totally disprove abiogenesis,
it wouldn't be proof that any god existed.)
--
"I can't activate two neurons simultaneously, and I vote"
- The theistic majority
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "Dubh Ghall" |
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| Title: Re: Objective Evidence |
04 Feb 2005 02:55:36 PM |
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On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 20:34:55 -0800, "Andrew" <andrew.321remov@usa.net> wrote:
"Al Klein" wrote in message news:d4l501lrudpteub8rbhovgag8gp19v06c9@4ax.com...
"Orion7" said in alt.atheism:
The fool is wrong. God is real.
Objective evidence?
--
Tell me Al....where is the *objective evidence* that life came from nonliving
chemicals which came from a primeval explosion which came from nothing.
Answer first, then ask your own question.
--
Puck Greenman
The spelling Like any opinion stated here
purely my own
#162 BAAWA Knight.
Plonked by Rob Duncan
January 27th
Na bister 500,000
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| User: "Rev. Karl E. Taylor" |
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| Title: Re: Is Anyone Here an ADVENTIST?! |
03 Feb 2005 04:27:03 PM |
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Orion7 wrote:
If even the fool is right, what's your excuse?
The fool is wrong. God is real... and He is Coming Soon!
To bad you are not unique.
People have been saying that since there were people.
--
There are none more ignorant and useless,
than they that seek answers on their knees,
with their eyes closed.
____________________________________________________________________
Rev. Karl E. Taylor
A.A #1143 PLONKED by Bob
Apostle of Dr. Lao EAC: Virgin Conversion Unit Director
____________________________________________________________________
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| User: "Gregory Gadow" |
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| Title: Re: Is Anyone Here an ADVENTIST?! |
04 Feb 2005 08:13:23 AM |
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Orion7 wrote:
If even the fool is right, what's your excuse?
The fool is wrong. God is real... and He is Coming Soon!
What's the opposite of "premature ejaculation?" Cause your God has a
really, *really* bad case; He's been saying, "I'm coming" for almost
2000 years now.
--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear
"[T]hose who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves;
and, under the rule of a just God, cannot long retain it."
-- Pres. George W. Bush, Hypocrite, his inauguration speech, 2005
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| User: "snex" |
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| Title: Re: Is Anyone Here an ADVENTIST?! |
03 Feb 2005 03:57:06 PM |
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Orion7 wrote:
If even the fool is right, what's your excuse?
The fool is wrong. God is real... and He is Coming Soon!
hes been "coming soon" for 2000 years now. christians are like the
deluded prom date that is still convinced that the guy that stood her
up will be there soon, even at 2AM.
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| User: "Andrew" |
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| Title: Re: Is Anyone Here an ADVENTIST?! |
03 Feb 2005 04:51:48 PM |
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"snex" wrote in message news:1107467826.435782.290270@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
hes been "coming soon" for 2000 years now. christians are like the
deluded prom date that is still convinced that the guy that stood her
up will be there soon, even at 2AM.
The Scriptures for over a thousand years gave numerous prophecies of the first coming of Christ.
In fact, one prophecy gave the very year of His baptism [anointing Daniel 9:25]. These prophesies
were fulfilled exactly as foretold. Therefore we may have confidence in the promise of His return.
Andrew
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| User: "snex" |
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| Title: Re: Is Anyone Here an ADVENTIST?! |
03 Feb 2005 05:05:18 PM |
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Andrew wrote:
"snex" wrote in message
news:1107467826.435782.290270@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
hes been "coming soon" for 2000 years now. christians are like the
deluded prom date that is still convinced that the guy that stood
her
up will be there soon, even at 2AM.
The Scriptures for over a thousand years gave numerous prophecies of
the first coming of Christ.
In fact, one prophecy gave the very year of His baptism [anointing
Daniel 9:25]. These prophesies
were fulfilled exactly as foretold. Therefore we may have confidence
in the promise of His return.
Andrew
amazing how you think daniel 9 gives the exact date of jesus' baptism
while other christians claim it gives the exact date of his coming into
jerusalem! so which is it? or was it the same day?
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| User: "Andrew" |
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| Title: Prophecy of Messiah |
03 Feb 2005 05:33:41 PM |
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"snex" wrote in message news:1107471288.026151.125920@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Andrew wrote:
"snex" wrote:
hes been "coming soon" for 2000 years now. christians are like the
deluded prom date that is still convinced that the guy that stood her
up will be there soon, even at 2AM.
The Scriptures for over a thousand years gave numerous prophecies of the first coming of Christ.
In fact, one prophecy gave the very year of His baptism [anointing Daniel 9:25]. These prophesies
were fulfilled exactly as foretold. Therefore we may have confidence in the promise of His return.
Andrew
amazing how you think daniel 9 gives the exact date of jesus' baptism
while other christians claim it gives the exact date of his coming into
jerusalem! so which is it? or was it the same day?
Verse 25 gives the time of His anointing (when He was baptized) which was when
He began His public ministry. Verse 26-27 gives the time of His crucifixion, which
was three and one half years later.
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| User: "snex" |
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| Title: Re: Prophecy of Messiah |
03 Feb 2005 05:43:20 PM |
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Andrew wrote:
"snex" wrote in message
news:1107471288.026151.125920@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Andrew wrote:
"snex" wrote:
hes been "coming soon" for 2000 years now. christians are like
the
deluded prom date that is still convinced that the guy that
stood her
up will be there soon, even at 2AM.
The Scriptures for over a thousand years gave numerous prophecies
of the first coming of Christ.
In fact, one prophecy gave the very year of His baptism
[anointing Daniel 9:25]. These prophesies
were fulfilled exactly as foretold. Therefore we may have
confidence in the promise of His return.
Andrew
amazing how you think daniel 9 gives the exact date of jesus'
baptism
while other christians claim it gives the exact date of his coming
into
jerusalem! so which is it? or was it the same day?
Verse 25 gives the time of His anointing (when He was baptized)
which was when
He began His public ministry. Verse 26-27 gives the time of His
crucifixion, which
was three and one half years later.
25 "Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree to restore
and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there
will be seven 'sevens,' and sixty-two 'sevens.' It will be rebuilt with
streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two
'sevens,' the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing.
how you manage to get 3.5 years from that is anyone's guess.
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| User: "Andrew" |
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| Title: Re: Prophecy of Messiah |
03 Feb 2005 07:07:56 PM |
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"snex" wrote in message news:1107474200.658655.189320@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Andrew wrote:
"snex" wrote:
Andrew wrote:
"snex" wrote:
hes been "coming soon" for 2000 years now. christians are like the
deluded prom date that is still convinced that the guy that stood her
up will be there soon, even at 2AM.
The Scriptures for over a thousand years gave numerous prophecies of the first coming of Christ.
In fact, one prophecy gave the very year of His baptism [anointing Daniel 9:25]. These prophesies
were fulfilled exactly as foretold. Therefore we may have confidence in the promise of His return.
Andrew
amazing how you think daniel 9 gives the exact date of jesus' baptism
while other christians claim it gives the exact date of his coming into
jerusalem! so which is it? or was it the same day?
Verse 25 gives the time of His anointing (when He was baptized) which was when
He began His public ministry. Verse 26-27 gives the time of His crucifixion, which
was three and one half years later.
25 "Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree to restore
and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there
will be seven 'sevens,' and sixty-two 'sevens.' It will be rebuilt with
streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two
'sevens,' the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing.
how you manage to get 3.5 years from that is anyone's guess.
"And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the
midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,"
(verse 27)
All the sacrifices of the sanctuary system met their fulfillment in the death
of Christ which was exactly "in the midst of the week" 3.5 years after He
began His ministry in 27 AD. ^^^^^^^^
http://www.bibleexplained.com/prophets/daniel/da09.htm
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| User: "snex" |
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| Title: Re: Prophecy of Messiah |
03 Feb 2005 07:11:59 PM |
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Andrew wrote:
"snex" wrote in message
news:1107474200.658655.189320@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Andrew wrote:
"snex" wrote:
Andrew wrote:
"snex" wrote:
hes been "coming soon" for 2000 years now. christians are
like the
deluded prom date that is still convinced that the guy that
stood her
up will be there soon, even at 2AM.
The Scriptures for over a thousand years gave numerous
prophecies of the first coming of Christ.
In fact, one prophecy gave the very year of His baptism
[anointing Daniel 9:25]. These prophesies
were fulfilled exactly as foretold. Therefore we may have
confidence in the promise of His return.
Andrew
amazing how you think daniel 9 gives the exact date of jesus'
baptism
while other christians claim it gives the exact date of his
coming into
jerusalem! so which is it? or was it the same day?
Verse 25 gives the time of His anointing (when He was baptized)
which was when
He began His public ministry. Verse 26-27 gives the time of His
crucifixion, which
was three and one half years later.
25 "Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree to
restore
and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes,
there
will be seven 'sevens,' and sixty-two 'sevens.' It will be rebuilt
with
streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the
sixty-two
'sevens,' the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing.
how you manage to get 3.5 years from that is anyone's guess.
"And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the
midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to
cease,"
(verse 27)
All the sacrifices of the sanctuary system met their fulfillment in
the death
of Christ which was exactly "in the midst of the week" 3.5 years
after He
began His ministry in 27 AD.
^^^^^^^^
http://www.bibleexplained.com/prophets/daniel/da09.htm
you have not explained AT ALL how you derived 3.5 years from any of
that. neither does that site.
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| User: "BDK" |
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| Title: Re: Prophecy of Messiah |
04 Feb 2005 09:31:38 AM |
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In article <1107479519.360367.159150@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
snex@comcast.net says...
Andrew wrote:
"snex" wrote in message
news:1107474200.658655.189320@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Andrew wrote:
"snex" wrote:
Andrew wrote:
"snex" wrote:
hes been "coming soon" for 2000 years now. christians are
like the
deluded prom date that is still convinced that the guy that
stood her
up will be there soon, even at 2AM.
The Scriptures for over a thousand years gave numerous
prophecies of the first coming of Christ.
In fact, one prophecy gave the very year of His baptism
[anointing Daniel 9:25]. These prophesies
were fulfilled exactly as foretold. Therefore we may have
confidence in the promise of His return.
Andrew
amazing how you think daniel 9 gives the exact date of jesus'
baptism
while other christians claim it gives the exact date of his
coming into
jerusalem! so which is it? or was it the same day?
Verse 25 gives the time of His anointing (when He was baptized)
which was when
He began His public ministry. Verse 26-27 gives the time of His
crucifixion, which
was three and one half years later.
25 "Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree to
restore
and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes,
there
will be seven 'sevens,' and sixty-two 'sevens.' It will be rebuilt
with
streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the
sixty-two
'sevens,' the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing.
how you manage to get 3.5 years from that is anyone's guess.
"And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the
midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to
cease,"
(verse 27)
All the sacrifices of the sanctuary system met their fulfillment in
the death
of Christ which was exactly "in the midst of the week" 3.5 years
after He
began His ministry in 27 AD.
^^^^^^^^
http://www.bibleexplained.com/prophets/daniel/da09.htm
you have not explained AT ALL how you derived 3.5 years from any of
that. neither does that site.
Don't ask him to think, it's not in his programming..
This is it in it's total:
Bible = true
BDK
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| User: "MsAnthrope" |
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| Title: Re: Prophecy of Messiah |
03 Feb 2005 07:48:44 PM |
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On 3 Feb 2005 15:43:20 -0800, "snex" <snex@comcast.net> wrote:
25 "Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree to restore
and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there
will be seven 'sevens,' and sixty-two 'sevens.' It will be rebuilt with
streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two
'sevens,' the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing.
how you manage to get 3.5 years from that is anyone's guess.
It must be another "gap theory" like in Genesis.
--
MsAnthrope
http://web.newsguy.com/rubyred
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| User: "Don Kresch" |
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| Title: Re: Prophecy of Messiah |
03 Feb 2005 06:51:23 PM |
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In alt.atheism on Thu, 3 Feb 2005 15:33:41 -0800, "Andrew"
<andrew.321remov@usa.net> let us all know that:
"snex" wrote in message news:1107471288.026151.125920@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Andrew wrote:
"snex" wrote:
hes been "coming soon" for 2000 years now. christians are like the
deluded prom date that is still convinced that the guy that stood her
up will be there soon, even at 2AM.
The Scriptures for over a thousand years gave numerous prophecies of the first coming of Christ.
In fact, one prophecy gave the very year of His baptism [anointing Daniel 9:25]. These prophesies
were fulfilled exactly as foretold. Therefore we may have confidence in the promise of His return.
Andrew
amazing how you think daniel 9 gives the exact date of jesus' baptism
while other christians claim it gives the exact date of his coming into
jerusalem! so which is it? or was it the same day?
Verse 25 gives the time of His anointing (when He was baptized) which was when
He began His public ministry. Verse 26-27 gives the time of His crucifixion, which
was three and one half years later.
There's nothing in the OT that says anything about jesus. Jesus
was an hellenistic, not davidic, messiah.
Don
---
aa #51, Knight of BAAWA, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man"
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| User: "Andrew" |
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| Title: Re: Prophecy of Messiah |
03 Feb 2005 07:54:34 PM |
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"Don Kresch" wrote in message news:8ih5015thcmlerd93k1lb5rgh9rq1bm5r9@4ax.com...
There's nothing in the OT that says anything about jesus. .
OT Prophecy About Jesus: Where in OT: Fulfillment:
_________________________________________________________________
Born in Bethlehem Micah 5:2 Matt. 2:1-6
Born of a virgin Isaiah 7:14 Luke 1:26-35
Child to be born Isaiah 9:6 Luke 2:11
Kings shall bring him gifts Psalm 72:10-11 Matt. 2:1-11
Rejected by his brothers Psalm 69:8 John 7:3-5
King rides upon a donkey Zech. 9:9 Mark 11:1-10
Hands and feet pierced. Psalm 22:16, John 20:25-29
Zech. 12:10 Matt. 27:35
Soldiers cast lots for clothes Psalm 22:18 John 19:23-24,
Matt. 27:35
Messiah will suffer for our Sins Isaiah 52:13-53:12 Matt. 27:26-35
Beaten and spat upon Isaiah 50:6 Matt. 26:67
Given gall and vinegar Isaiah 50:6 Matt. 27:34
Sold for 30 pieces of silver Zech. 11:12-13 Matt. 26:14-15
Rise from the dead Ps. 16:8-11 Lk. 24:6-8
Shall come from Tribe of Judah Gen. 49:10 Matt. 1:1-3, Rev. 5:5
Rulers take council against Him Psalm 2:1-2 Matt. 12:14, 26:3-4,47
Be rejected as cornerstone Psalm 118:22-23 Matt. 21:42
Be a Stumbling stone to the Jews. Isaiah 8:14 Romans 9:31-33
Be buried with the rich Isaiah 53:9 Matt. 27:57-60
Betrayed by a friend Psalm 41:9 Matt. 26:14-16, 23
Accused without opening His mouth Isaiah 53:7 Luke 23:9, Matt. 27:12
Numbered with the transgressors Isaiah 53:12 Matt. 27:38
Make intercession for transgressors Isaiah 53:12 Luke 23:34
Make an offering for sin Isaiah 53:10-11 Acts 10:43, 13:38-39
Romans 3:21-26
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| User: "snex" |
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| Title: Re: Prophecy of Messiah |
03 Feb 2005 08:50:49 PM |
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Andrew wrote:
"Don Kresch" wrote in message
news:8ih5015thcmlerd93k1lb5rgh9rq1bm5r9@4ax.com...
There's nothing in the OT that says anything about jesus. .
OT Prophecy About Jesus: Where in OT:
Fulfillment:
_________________________________________________________________
Born in Bethlehem Micah 5:2
Matt. 2:1-6
Born of a virgin Isaiah 7:14
Luke 1:26-35
Child to be born Isaiah 9:6
Luke 2:11
Kings shall bring him gifts Psalm 72:10-11
Matt. 2:1-11
Rejected by his brothers Psalm 69:8
John 7:3-5
King rides upon a donkey Zech. 9:9
Mark 11:1-10
Hands and feet pierced. Psalm 22:16,
John 20:25-29
Zech.
12:10 Matt. 27:35
Soldiers cast lots for clothes Psalm 22:18
John 19:23-24,
Matt. 27:35
Messiah will suffer for our Sins Isaiah 52:13-53:12
Matt. 27:26-35
Beaten and spat upon Isaiah 50:6
Matt. 26:67
Given gall and vinegar Isaiah 50:6
Matt. 27:34
Sold for 30 pieces of silver Zech. 11:12-13
Matt. 26:14-15
Rise from the dead Ps. 16:8-11
Lk. 24:6-8
Shall come from Tribe of Judah Gen. 49:10
Matt. 1:1-3, Rev. 5:5
Rulers take council against Him Psalm 2:1-2
Matt. 12:14, 26:3-4,47
Be rejected as cornerstone Psalm 118:22-23
Matt. 21:42
Be a Stumbling stone to the Jews. Isaiah 8:14
Romans 9:31-33
Be buried with the rich Isaiah 53:9
Matt. 27:57-60
Betrayed by a friend Psalm 41:9
Matt. 26:14-16, 23
Accused without opening His mouth Isaiah 53:7
Luke 23:9, Matt. 27:12
Numbered with the transgressors Isaiah 53:12
Matt. 27:38
Make intercession for transgressors Isaiah 53:12
Luke 23:34
Make an offering for sin Isaiah 53:10-11
Acts 10:43, 13:38-39
Romans 3:21-26
except every single one of those is a single verse (often not even a
whole sentence) taken completely out of context. perhaps youd like to
actually make a solid case for them, based on the surrounding text.
.
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| User: "snex" |
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| Title: Re: Prophecy of Messiah |
03 Feb 2005 09:08:16 PM |
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oh, i also forgot to mention that the gospel writers had access to the
old testament when they wrote, which was at least 40 years after the
death of jesus. meanwhile, there is no non-biblical evidence that jesus
existed in the first place.
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| User: "sanguinevikings" |
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| Title: Re: Prophecy of Messiah |
04 Feb 2005 02:16:08 AM |
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Andrew wrote:
"Don Kresch" wrote in message news:8ih5015thcmlerd93k1lb5rgh9rq1bm5r9@4ax.com...
There's nothing in the OT that says anything about jesus. .
OT Prophecy About Jesus: Where in OT: Fulfillment:
_________________________________________________________________
Born in Bethlehem Micah 5:2 Matt. 2:1-6
Born of a virgin Isaiah 7:14 Luke 1:26-35
Child to be born Isaiah 9:6 Luke 2:11
Kings shall bring him gifts Psalm 72:10-11 Matt. 2:1-11
Rejected by his brothers Psalm 69:8 John 7:3-5
King rides upon a donkey Zech. 9:9 Mark 11:1-10
Hands and feet pierced. Psalm 22:16, John 20:25-29
Zech. 12:10 Matt. 27:35
Soldiers cast lots for clothes Psalm 22:18 John 19:23-24,
Matt. 27:35
Messiah will suffer for our Sins Isaiah 52:13-53:12 Matt. 27:26-35
Beaten and spat upon Isaiah 50:6 Matt. 26:67
Given gall and vinegar Isaiah 50:6 Matt. 27:34
Sold for 30 pieces of silver Zech. 11:12-13 Matt. 26:14-15
Rise from the dead Ps. 16:8-11 Lk. 24:6-8
Shall come from Tribe of Judah Gen. 49:10 Matt. 1:1-3, Rev. 5:5
Rulers take council against Him Psalm 2:1-2 Matt. 12:14, 26:3-4,47
Be rejected as cornerstone Psalm 118:22-23 Matt. 21:42
Be a Stumbling stone to the Jews. Isaiah 8:14 Romans 9:31-33
Be buried with the rich Isaiah 53:9 Matt. 27:57-60
Betrayed by a friend Psalm 41:9 Matt. 26:14-16, 23
Accused without opening His mouth Isaiah 53:7 Luke 23:9, Matt. 27:12
Numbered with the transgressors Isaiah 53:12 Matt. 27:38
Make intercession for transgressors Isaiah 53:12 Luke 23:34
Make an offering for sin Isaiah 53:10-11 Acts 10:43, 13:38-39
Romans 3:21-26
The men that wrote the New Testament will have been well aware of these
'prophecies', just as Mr Hitler was aware of Nostradamus. Do some
thinking instead of quoting. Begin by realising how monumentally stupid
you look.
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| User: "Don Kresch" |
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| Title: Re: Prophecy of Messiah |
03 Feb 2005 09:24:19 PM |
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In alt.atheism on Thu, 3 Feb 2005 17:54:34 -0800, "Andrew"
<andrew.321remov@usa.net> let us all know that:
"Don Kresch" wrote in message news:8ih5015thcmlerd93k1lb5rgh9rq1bm5r9@4ax.com...
There's nothing in the OT that says anything about jesus. .
OT Prophecy About Jesus: Where in OT: Fulfillment:
_________________________________________________________________
Born in Bethlehem Micah 5:2
WRONG!
Bethlehem-Ephrat is a TRIBE, idiot, not a place.
Born of a virgin Isaiah 7:14
WRONG!
ha-almah DOES NOT mean virgin. It means young woman. beth'ulah
means virgin.
Child to be born Isaiah 9:6
Is 8:3 the child is born.
Kings shall bring him gifts Psalm 72:10-11
Not about jesus.
Rejected by his brothers Psalm 69:8
Not about jesus. It's a prayer offering.
King rides upon a donkey Zech. 9:9
Not about jesus. Did you read Zech 9:1-8? It's about a military
and political leader. Was jesus a military and political leader? Then,
we see from 10-11 that peace was supposed to come to all nations. Did
peace come to all nations with jesus?
You really need to stop proof-texting.
Hands and feet pierced. Psalm 22:16,
WRONG! Ps 22:16 reads "Like a lion, they are at my hands and
feet"
Soldiers cast lots for clothes Psalm 22:18
No soldiers mentioned. And manufactured prophecy--proof texting.
Messiah will suffer for our Sins Isaiah 52:13-53:12
Is 53 is about ISRAEL. That's who the suffering servant is.
Beaten and spat upon Isaiah 50:6
A verse in the PAST TENSE is predictive? I don't think so,
dumbshit.
" I *gave* My back to those who strike Me,
And My cheeks to those who pluck out the beard;
I *did not cover* My face from humiliation and spitting."
Past tense, fuckface. No prophecy.
Given gall and vinegar Isaiah 50:6
I just quoted 50:6. Nowhere in there is about gall and vinegar,
you lying *****.
Sold for 30 pieces of silver Zech. 11:12-13
" I took my staff Favor R318 F117 and cut it in pieces, to break R319
F118 my covenant which I had made with all the peoples. 11 So it was
broken F119 on that day, and thus F120 the afflicted R320 of the flock
who were watching me realized that it was the word of the LORD. 12 I
said to them, "If it is good in your sight, give me my wages; R321 but
if not, never F121 mind!" So they weighed out thirty R322 shekels of
silver as my wages. 13 Then the LORD said to me, "Throw it to the
potter, R323 that magnificent price at which I was valued by them." So
I took the thirty shekels of silver and threw them to the potter in
the house of the LORD."
Past tense again being prophetic? You certainly have a fucked-up
concept of prophecy. Something that HAS HAPPENED isn't prophecy,
dumbshit.
Rise from the dead Ps. 16:8-11
Sorry, but there's no prophecy in there about rising from the
dead.
Shall come from Tribe of Judah Gen. 49:10
You said he was supposed to come from the tribe of
Bethlehem-Ephrat above ( Micah 5:2). Which is it?
Rulers take council against Him Psalm 2:1-2
A poem is not a prophecy. It was a commentary on the times then.
Sorry--the double-meaning ***** is completely non-judaic. It was
invented by you xers as a means of spitting on the jews.
Be rejected as cornerstone Psalm 118:22-23
Again, a poem is not a prophecy. Nor is a variant on the hodayot
a prophecy. Especially since it is merely a thanksgiving prayer.
Be a Stumbling stone to the Jews. Isaiah 8:14
Proof-texting at its finest. This has nothing to do with jesus,
but is about the jews who fear Rezin and Pekah more than they do god.
Why not try *reading* the whole chapter, rather than some
proof-texted verses, k?
Be buried with the rich Isaiah 53:9
Again, the suffering servant is Israel, not any specific jew.
Betrayed by a friend Psalm 41:9
Psalm 41
Assurance of God's Help and a Plea for Healing
To the leader. A Psalm of David.
Doesn't look like a prophecy to me. Tell me--how do you get a
prophecy about something that's a plea for healing at the time it was
written? Or are you just pulling the normal xer double-meaning
*****?
Accused without opening His mouth Isaiah 53:7
Suffering servant = Israel.
Numbered with the transgressors Isaiah 53:12
Suffering servant = Israel.
Make intercession for transgressors Isaiah 53:12
Suffering servant = Israel.
Make an offering for sin Isaiah 53:10-11
Suffering servant = Israel.
So--got anything about jesus in the OT?
Don
---
aa #51, Knight of BAAWA, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man"
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: Prophecy of Messiah |
03 Feb 2005 09:42:32 PM |
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On 03 Feb 2005, Andrew dropped trou, farted, whirled, then shouted:
"Don Kresch" wrote in message
news:8ih5015thcmlerd93k1lb5rgh9rq1bm5r9@4ax.com...
There's nothing in the OT that says anything about jesus. .
OT Prophecy About Jesus: Where in OT:
Fulfillment:
_________________________________________________________________
Born in Bethlehem Micah 5:2
Matt. 2:1-6
Born of a virgin Isaiah 7:14
Luke 1:26-35
Child to be born Isaiah 9:6
Luke 2:11
Kings shall bring him gifts Psalm 72:10-11
Matt. 2:1-11
Rejected by his brothers Psalm 69:8
John 7:3-5
King rides upon a donkey Zech. 9:9
Mark 11:1-10
Hands and feet pierced. Psalm 22:16,
John 20:25-29
Zech.
12:10
Matt. 27:35
Soldiers cast lots for clothes Psalm 22:18
John 19:23-24,
Matt. 27:35
Messiah will suffer for our Sins Isaiah 52:13-53:12
Matt. 27:26-35
Beaten and spat upon Isaiah 50:6
Matt. 26:67
Given gall and vinegar Isaiah 50:6
Matt. 27:34
Sold for 30 pieces of silver Zech. 11:12-13
Matt. 26:14-15
Rise from the dead Ps. 16:8-11
Lk. 24:6-8
Shall come from Tribe of Judah Gen. 49:10
Matt. 1:1-3, Rev. 5:5
Rulers take council against Him Psalm 2:1-2
Matt. 12:14, 26:3-4,47
Be rejected as cornerstone Psalm 118:22-23
Matt. 21:42
Be a Stumbling stone to the Jews. Isaiah 8:14
Romans 9:31-33
Be buried with the rich Isaiah 53:9
Matt. 27:57-60
Betrayed by a friend Psalm 41:9
Matt. 26:14-16, 23
Accused without opening His mouth Isaiah 53:7
Luke 23:9, Matt. 27:12
Numbered with the transgressors Isaiah 53:12
Matt. 27:38
Make intercession for transgressors Isaiah 53:12
Luke 23:34
Make an offering for sin Isaiah 53:10-11
Acts 10:43, 13:38-39
Romans 3:21-26
Do you realize that most of these "prophesies" are copies of much earlier
pagan myths? Jesus was almost an exact copy of Horus of Egypt. Some of
the other myths include Krishna of India, Buddha, Dionysus, and
Zoroaster. Copying something from another myth and writing it in a book
does not constitute predicting the future.
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
--------
Why is it that most of the people who are against abortion are people you
wouldn't want to ***** in the first place?
--George Carlin
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Prophecy of Messiah |
04 Feb 2005 12:36:38 AM |
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On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 17:54:34 -0800, "Andrew" <andrew.321remov@usa.net>
said in alt.atheism:
OT Prophecy About Jesus: Where in OT: Fulfillment:
_________________________________________________________________
Born in Bethlehem Micah 5:2
Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among
the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me
that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of
old, from everlasting.
No mention of Jesus.
Born of a virgin Isaiah 7:14
"Emmanuel" and "Yeshua" aren't the same name.
Child to be born Isaiah 9:6
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and
the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be
called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father,
The Prince of Peace.
No mention of Jesus. That the writers of the NT used the OT phrase
"Prince of Peace" is proof that they knew the OT, not that the OT
foretold the NT.
Kings shall bring him gifts Psalm 72:10-11
Shall bring Solomon gifts. It refers to Solomon, not Jesus.
Rejected by his brothers Psalm 69:8
Refers to David, not Jesus.
King rides upon a donkey Zech. 9:9
Zechariah 9:9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter
of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and
having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an *****, and upon a colt the
foal of an *****.
No mention of Jesus.
Hands and feet pierced. Psalm 22:16
Psalms 22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked
have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
Refers to David, not Jesus.
Soldiers cast lots for clothes Psalm 22:18
Refers to David, not Jesus.
Messiah will suffer for our Sins Isaiah 52:13-53:12
Beaten and spat upon Isaiah 50:6
Given gall and vinegar Isaiah 50:6
Isaiah doesn't refer to Jesus.
[snip the rest]
Just the usual apologism that has no basis.
--
"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but
not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings."
-A. Einstein (1929 -- Einstein Archive 33-272)
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Prophecy of Messiah |
04 Feb 2005 04:20:04 PM |
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Well, at least we know the people who wrote this history down, a few
decades later, had no interest in making sure the "history" fit the
"prophecies" retroactively. Here is a link of fulfilled prophecies:
http://www.bci.org/prophecy-fulfilled/
You will find Hindu, Buddhist, Jewish, Native American, and others
listed. But they don't have Nostradamus or the World Weekly News :(
Kermit
Who is from Missouri, and who will believe it when he sees it.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Prophecy of Messiah |
04 Feb 2005 12:25:35 AM |
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On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 15:33:41 -0800, "Andrew" <andrew.321remov@usa.net>
said in alt.atheism:
Verse 25 gives the time of His anointing (when He was baptized) which was when
He began His public ministry. Verse 26-27 gives the time of His crucifixion, which
was three and one half years later.
Sixty two weeks isn't 3-1/2 years.
--
"A stupid man's report of what a clever man says is never accurate because he
unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand."
-- Bertrand Russell.
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "MsAnthrope" |
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| Title: Re: Prophecy of Messiah |
04 Feb 2005 06:34:42 PM |
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On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 06:25:35 GMT, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>
wrote:
On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 15:33:41 -0800, "Andrew" <andrew.321remov@usa.net>
said in alt.atheism:
Verse 25 gives the time of His anointing (when He was baptized) which was when
He began His public ministry. Verse 26-27 gives the time of His crucifixion, which
was three and one half years later.
Sixty two weeks isn't 3-1/2 years.
Well it is if you consider there is a prophetic gap between week 48
and week 49 of a divinely appointed 120 weeks.
--
MsAnthrope
http://web.newsguy.com/rubyred
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Prophecy of Messiah |
04 Feb 2005 07:48:29 PM |
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On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 16:34:42 -0800, MsAnthrope <ms@nthr.ope> said in
alt.atheism:
On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 06:25:35 GMT, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>
wrote:
On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 15:33:41 -0800, "Andrew" <andrew.321remov@usa.net>
said in alt.atheism:
Verse 25 gives the time of His anointing (when He was baptized) which was when
He began His public ministry. Verse 26-27 gives the time of His crucifixion, which
was three and one half years later.
Sixty two weeks isn't 3-1/2 years.
Well it is if you consider there is a prophetic gap between week 48
and week 49 of a divinely appointed 120 weeks.
Is that like Friday evening to Sunday morning being 3 days?
--
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious
conviction."
- Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Is Anyone Here an ADVENTIST?! |
04 Feb 2005 12:25:14 AM |
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On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 14:51:48 -0800, "Andrew" <andrew.321remov@usa.net>
said in alt.atheism:
The Scriptures for over a thousand years gave numerous prophecies of the first coming of Christ.
In fact, one prophecy gave the very year of His baptism [anointing Daniel 9:25].
The name "Jesus" doesn't appear even once in the OT.
These prophesies were fulfilled exactly as foretold.
Daniel 9:25 doesn't foretell anything having to do with Jesus. If it
did, Jesus came MUCH later than Daniel foretold.
In fact, there hasn't been ONE SINGLE unambiguous prophecy in the
bible that has come true. (Daniel 9:25 is ambiguous.)
--
"Given that you exist and that you are aware of your situation and
surroundings, you will find yourself in a place which has conditions
exactly suitable to your being there. If the environment was
hostile or incompatible in some important way then you would not be
there in the first place. Therefore the suitability and seeming
perfection of your universe cannot be taken as evidence of anything
more than your existence in it."
- Edward Warren, "The naturalistic fallacy"
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "MsAnthrope" |
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| Title: Re: Is Anyone Here an ADVENTIST?! |
03 Feb 2005 07:46:33 PM |
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On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 14:51:48 -0800, "Andrew" <andrew.321remov@usa.net>
wrote:
"snex" wrote in message news:1107467826.435782.290270@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
hes been "coming soon" for 2000 years now. christians are like the
deluded prom date that is still convinced that the guy that stood her
up will be there soon, even at 2AM.
The Scriptures for over a thousand years gave numerous prophecies of the first coming of Christ.
In fact, one prophecy gave the very year of His baptism [anointing Daniel 9:25]. These prophesies
were fulfilled exactly as foretold. Therefore we may have confidence in the promise of His return.
Most Jesuit scholars conclude that the "annointed one" of Daniel 9 was
the high priest Onias III who was "cut off" (killed) by Antiochus
Epiphanes in 174 BC.
--
MsAnthrope
http://web.newsguy.com/rubyred
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| User: "Cindy" |
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| Title: Re: Is Anyone Here an ADVENTIST?! |
04 Feb 2005 12:39:14 PM |
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"MsAnthrope" <ms@nthr.ope> wrote in message
news:hqk501td4gmlpurauv4hnj3hjnhhe00rk5@4ax.com...
On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 14:51:48 -0800, "Andrew"
<andrew.321remov@usa.net>
The Scriptures for over a thousand years gave numerous prophecies
of the first coming of Christ.
In fact, one prophecy gave the very year of His baptism
[anointing Daniel 9:25]. These prophesies
were fulfilled exactly as foretold. Therefore we may have
confidence in the promise of His return.
Most Jesuit scholars conclude that the "annointed one" of Daniel 9
was the high priest Onias III who was "cut off" (killed) by Antiochus
Epiphanes in 174 BC.
They fall into the 2nd group below then according to your Catholic
Encyclopedia on Daniel, and are even in conflict with your early
Church doctrines, traditions and writings, because your Church Fathers
fall into the first category as they believed the seventy week
prophecy was a Messianic prophecy which identified Jesus, they wrote
that it was Jesus who was cut off when he died..
What caused this big shift in thinking here???
=====Quote from the Catholic Encyclopedia:======
Briefly stated, the following are the three principal interpretations
which have been given by Dan., 9:24-27.
The first is the ancient view, which may be called traditional, and
which maintains that the prophecy of the seventy weeks refers directly
to the appearance of Christ in the flesh, His death, His establishment
of the New Covenant, and the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans.
[historicists]
The second is that of most recent scholars, chiefly non-Catholic, who
refer the whole passage directly to the time of Antiochus Epiphanes,
with (Christians generally) or without (Rationalists at large) a
typical reference to Christ.[Preterists]
The third is that of some Fathers of the Church and some recent
theologians who understand the prophecy in an eschatological sense, as
a prediction of the development of the Kingdom of God from the end of
the Exile to the fulfilment of that kingdom at Christ's second
Advent." [Futurists]
======= end quote, subject Daniel ==========
By most Jesuits Teresita means only Jesuit preterists claim that, and
now because of them many modern day Protestant Churches also claim
that. Problem is had the Reformers believed the same, there never
would have been a reformation, nor the Churches they belong to today,
thus many of the modern churches are really Protestant in name only.
Preterists try to prove that the book of Revelation was written before
AD 70 so that it can be claimed that all the prophecies contained in
the book are said to have been directed to that time before AD 70 and
have nothing either to do with the unfolding of church history or the
future beyond AD 70.
Basically it is a deceit to keep the antichrist from being
identified, as is Jesuit Futurism. Preterist and Futurists
only agree on this one major point:
" Don't look at the Vatican or the Pope"
Why were the Jesuits, a military order, even needed?
"It is a universal conviction confirmed by pontifical declaration
[Urban
VIII, 6 August, 1623] that as the Almighty God raised up other holy
men at
other times, so he has raised up St. Ignatius and the Society
established by
him to oppose Luther and the heretics of his day."
====quote=======
"In truth, his [Ignatius of Loyola] wish was fulfilled for his
Jesuits were pope's men. Their first main targets, the new
Protestant churches pullulating throughout Europe. Precisely
the vital issue at stake between the Roman Catholic Church
and the leaders of the Protestant revolt - Luther, Calvin,
Henry VIII - was the authority of the Roman Pontiff and the
pre-eminent primacy of his Roman Catholic Church.
The Jesuits carried the battle right into the territories of the
papal enemies. They waged public controversies with kings,
they debated in protestant universities. They infiltrated hostile
territories in disguise and moved underground. They were
everywhere. Their constant theme: the Bishop of Rome is the
successor to Peter, the apostle upon, whom Christ founded His
Church. That church is a hierarchy of bishops in communion
with the Bishop of Rome, any other churchly institution is rank
heresy, the child of Satan."
=== Malachi Martin in "The Jesuits"=====
The Jesuits had one goal in mind and that was to overthrow the
Protestant Reformation and bring every church back into submission to
the Pope. One of the main goals of that conspiratorial organisation's
efforts was the struggle to remove the stigma of Antichrist which ALL
the Reformers had placed upon Rome. In England, Tyndale, Latimer,
Ridley, Hooper and Bradford were burned at the stake for their stand
against what the Jesuits taught, they proclaimed boldly that the
Papacy was the great historical Antichrist, the persecutor of God's
elect. Calvin called the teaching that the antichrist was Nero "a old
wives tale"
Because of this it is widely taught and believed today that
the name Nero adds up to 666, this is false:
====quote==================
666 and CÆSAR NERO
Some will suggest that the book of Revelation was written only for
those living at the time, and that 666 most probably applies to Cæsar
Nero, who ruled Rome from 54 to 68 A.D., rather than someone from
latter centuries. This point of view, which suggests Revelation had an
immediate application to the first century, rather than being
prophetic, is known as preterism, and is commonly held by the Catholic
Church. So, just how is Nero linked to 666?
The preterist takes a relatively uncommon form of Nero's name, Nero
Cæsar or Cæsar Nero, and adds an "n", resulting in Neron Cæsar. Next
the Latin is transliterated into Aramaic, resulting in nrwn qsr, which
when using the numeric equivalent of the letters, then adds up to 666
as follows:
Nun = 50
Resh = 200
Waw = 6
Nun = 50
Qoph = 100
Samech = 60
Resh = 200
An example of this spelling has apparently been recently discovered in
one of the Dead Sea scrolls. (If you use the same process, but without
the added "n" the result is 616. Interestingly, some early manuscripts
of the Bible have 616 rather than 666, but even scholars such as
Irenæus attribute the 616 to only a copyist error.)
There is a problem though with the above calculation. According to the
rules of Jewish numerology, known as gematria, when the letter Nun
appears a second time in a word, it is known as a "Final", and takes
the value of 700.* So to be precise, NRWN QSR actually adds up to 1316
and not 666.
*Source: Behind Numerology, by Shirley Blackwell Lawrence, copyright
1989, published by Newcastle Publishing Co., Inc., North Hollywood,
California, ISBN 0-87877-145-X, page 41.
So the preterist calculation which attributes 666 to Nero, however, is
nothing more than a rather desperate attempt to find some likely
candidate for the Antichrist other than the Papacy.
== end quote from: http://biblelight.net/666.htm ====
(See the above link to see the proper interpretation.)
Preterism was first advanced by the Jesuit Luis de Alcasar in
"Vestigatio Arcani Sensus in Apocalypsi" - 1604, to destroy the
Reformed Protestant teachings which identified the papacy with the
prophesies about Mystery Babylon, the Great ***** and the historical
Antichrist system foretold in Daniel and the Revelation.
Jesuit futurists do not teach this though, the Jesuit Francisco
Rivera created and promoted the Futurist School of interpretation. He
taught that the antichrist was to be some future unknown who would
appear near the end of time and continue in power for three and a half
years. This anti-protestant theory is now being widely taught by
Protestant Christians, with a unbiblical Seven year tribulation and
secret rapture now attatched to it since the 1800's. It was introduced
to American's through the writing and influence of a John Nelson Darby
of the Plymouth Brethren Church in England, but became very popular
when Cyrus Scofield incorporated the Jesuit doctrine into the notes
of his Scofield Reference Bible in 1909, and thousands of unsuspecting
Protestants swallowed it as protestant teaching and truth, hook, line
and sinker.
This is the problem with Rome's traditions, the writings of their
Church father's, and magesterial teachings and doctrines, so many
contradict each other, the result is confusion -- meaningless
babble... Unfortunatly many modern Protestant Churches have adopted
the Jesuit views and as these Jesuits intended it has resulted in most
of the modern Churches rejecting the Historicist biblical truth, and
not being able to identify Papal Rome or the Pope, as the Reformers
before them did.
To read more on the "The Catholic Origins of Futurism and Preterism"
http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/antichrist.htm
And on the Biblical interpretation of the seventy weeks of Daniel 9:
http://biblelight.net/dan927.htm
~ Cindy
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