Re: is 'happy holidays' also exclusionary? also, the importance of x-mas in american history and culture



 Religions > Atheism > Re: is 'happy holidays' also exclusionary? also, the importance of x-mas in american history and culture

LINK TO THIS PAGE  


rating :  0   |  0


  Page 1 of 2

1

 

2

 
Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "peace to end all peace"
Date: 18 Dec 2006 06:38:38 PM
Object: Re: is 'happy holidays' also exclusionary? also, the importance of x-mas in american history and culture
i agree
alejandro de tacobell wrote:

during this christmas season, some municipalities have taken measures
to remove anything that specifically refers to christmas. so, on
government property, we see signs that say 'happy holidays' instead of
'merry x-mas'. the argument is that a 'merry x-mas' sign would be
unconstitutional--it would violate the separation of church and
state--and it would also be exclusionary for atheists, muslims,
buddhists, and other folks.

the argument goes, as united states becomes more and more
multi-cultural and multi-religious, americans must be mindful of
non-christians. the state musn't favor one religion or one cultural
tradition over another.
now, some may contest this line of thinking by arguing that christmas
is more than a day of Religious observance. it is a part of cultural
heritage. it could be argued that christmas has much historical and
cultural value, like fourth of july or whatever. even non-christians
celebrate christmas. i grew up as an atheist and i always loved the
spirit of christmas when i was a kid. since i left my kiddie yrs
behind, i've grown humbuggish and grinch-like, but x-mas was always
special in my younger days. it meant the crisp cold of winter, tv
specials, magical lights, presents, two week vacation from school,
people getting drunk and happy, and so on. i experienced it culturally
and materialistically. it was real nice.
yet, secularites have defined christmas purely in religious terms.
they fail to see its cultural value. they argue that a 'merry x-mas'
sign in front of a government building or even in public schools is
exclusionary, theocratic, and yabba dabba. what idiocy.
alan dershawitz even argues that there should be no state observed
holiday for christmas. indeed, if we follow the logic of the
secularites, christmas should be just another day. and, we may be
heading in that direction.
this is what you reap from liberalism, the ideology of white faggotyass
pussyboys who've grown decadent, degenerate, weak, anemic, and dorky
when faced with the onslaught of the leftists--many of them radical
leftwing jewish--and darkies poisoned by leftists.

anyway, the real point of this rant is not about the darkies or
leftists. it's that if we follow the logic of secularite radicals, even
'happy holidays' is exclusionary, favoritist, and eurocentric if you
think about it. if a goverment building has a sign saying 'happy
holidays', it's obviously referring to x-mas, hanukkah, and new year.
both x-mas and hannukah are religious days of western origin. new year
isn't religious but it's based on the western calendar and is thereby
eurocentric.
one may ask why does a state building have 'happy holidays' sign up
during the x-mas, hannukah, and new year's season? why doesn't state
buildings have 'happy holidays' sign up during ramadan, buddah's
birthday, chinese new year, aztec new year, etc? why do US government
buildings give special 'happy holidays' recognition to x-mas, hannukah,
and eurocentric new year?
after all, august could be the month in which some islamic holy man,
kazakhi hero, some hindu god, or whatever was born. yet, why isn't
there any 'happy holidays' signs in front of government buildings
during the month of august? so, even if 'happy holidays' signs do NOT
specify christmas or eurocentric new year, they are defacto playing
favorites by recognizing the specialness of western winter holidays.
so, one could argue that the display of 'happy holidays' signs during
christmas season whereas absence of such during muslim or buddhist holy
days is exclusionary and unfair.

and consider new years day. other cultures have different new years.
why should american government only recognize the western new year?
isn't this cultural exclusionism, imperialism, favoritism, etc? why
don't US government buildings have signs saying 'happy new year' during
bantu new year, chinese new year, hindu new year, islamic new year,
gumbi new year?
why do they favor only the western new year?

indeed, if we truly wanted to be fair, there should be 'happy holidays'
signs up throughout the year. for all we know, march or september
could have holy days for people of other cultures. why should
government and businesses recognize the holiday festivities of the
season bracketing thanksgiving, christmas, hannukah, and new year?
i'm saying even if governments and businesses don't specifically say
'merry x-mas', the very display of 'happy holidays' signs during this
season indicates that there is a special recognition for x-mas,
hannukah, and eurocentric new year day.
if we truly wanted to be fair, there shouldn't be a special recognition
of festivity during what most of us know as the christmas holiday
season.

americans are so stupid, thanks to liberals. take the jappers who
understand the meaning of christmas much better though they are mostly
into shinto or buddhism or some other idiocy. christmas is huge in
japan though less than 2% of jappers are christian. why is this?
because jappers are as materialistic as the next guy; they love what
christmas in terms of its cultural import. it's a celebration of a
tradition that developed in the west. it has wonderful stories, some
religious, some fairytale-like. some sober, some for chillun. it's got
spiritual element, materialistic element. it's a season for charlie
brown cartoons and claymation rudolph. it's a time for eggnog and
turkey and ham--though if you're moral, you shouldn't eat pigs cuz they
are smarter than dogs(end the hogocaust).
so, jappers love and celebrate christmas for what it is. jappers
celebrate valentine too. valentine isn't jappish in origin. it's
western. but, jappers think it's a pretty cool, especially as girls buy
guys the chocolate in japan. jappers got something right. i
personally don't understand why guys get chocolate for girls in
america. girls will eat all that stuff, grow fat and ugly. who wants to
hump a fatsoess?

anyway, christmas is a cultural holiday and there should be nothing
wrong with governments or businesses putting up signs saying 'merry
x-mas'. maybe some cities in the east dropped that sign cuz alot of
shoppers are jewish. maybe in NY, alot of jews are ***** by
businesses that say 'merry x-mas'. maybe when jews see rudolph the
rednosed reindeer, they see rudolph hess the brownshirted nazi. i
dunno. and of course, east coast protestant types tend to be so
liberally faggoty and anemic and apologetic for all the crimes
committed by honkers. they love doing anything that undermines their
own cultural and politial authority. you can bet these white boy
liberal faggoty fools will all pee in their pants and vote for barack
obama cuz GOOD white folks are supposed to kowtow before the noble
negro and suck jigro balls.

i tell ya, this country is really fuc*ed up when we can't even say
merry x-mas without being called a bigot. i hope jesus would return and
kick some arse.

the way i see it, christmas is more necessary than ever because it is
such a great acculturating tool for new immigrants, even if, or
especially if, they are not christian. immigration has grown bigger
than ever. when newcomers arrive in america, they--and especially their
kids--should learn that US is more than about dry laws and rights.
america is part of western tradition/civilization, and americans have
their own version or take on that tradition. one becomes american not
just by reading the constitution and learning the laws but by watching
americans mooies, listening to american music, watching american tv,
and such. these days, mooies and tv suck. and music is mostly ugabuga
negroes acting like apes. but, christmas is one of the few
americanisms that still has much goodness, beauty, magic, hope, etc.
take 'it's a wonderful life'. it's very christmasy and very american.
take 'merry x-mas charlie brown'. even if you're a immigrant hindu or
muslim kid, you can watch that cartoon and be touched by how charlie
brown saves a runty christmas tree. there are univeral values there
but also a sense of unique americanness. by experiencing the magic of
x-mas, one doesn't necessary become christian. but, one experiences
certain aspects of americanness--of which christianity played a very
important part--that cannot be expressed thru laws and such.
even most americans born here know very little about the law. most of
us define our americanness thru our culture, thru our emotional lives.
and christmas is very important in embodying and expressing something
essential about the american character, hope, values, and such.
indeed, american christmas is different than christmas in other
nations. in sweden, people get together, eat a big dinner, dance a
primitive kind of locomotive, and try to blow out candles by farting.
but, american version of christmas is more hopeful, more populist, more
norman rockwellish. america is a young country, and christmas for
americans means the possibility of rebirth, redemption, and such. take
'it's a wonderful life'. george bailey is reborn during christmas.
take 'meet john doe'. even the fat capitalist pig grows a bit
sentimental during christmas and wants to do good. christamas, more
than fourth of july, makes us feel the essence of americanism. take
the painting where george washington crosses valley forge or river
forge or whatever. there's snow. he looks like santa bringing us
freedom. and, there was much fighting in the winter months during the
war of independence. christmas makes us remember how this country was
born. like jesus as a baby had no place to go but mary found some
stable and he was born. similarly, american freedom was almost snuffed
out. king george wanted to be nasty like king herod. he wanted to kill
american liberty and independence in the cradle. but, americans got
together and kicked george's arse. many of the key events during the
war of independence took place winter month. i saw the pictures in
history books. lots of snow.

indeed, the founding fathers all celebrated christmas.
every christmas, americans, rich and poor, powerful and weak, old and
young, were reminded of the good things they got in their lives.
christmas remind us of the first days of this nation. how this country
grew from nothingness, from weakness, like jesus in the stable among
the cows and donkeys. during christmas, even negro slaves were given
days off and given something more to eat--extra servings of fried
chicken, perhaps. i'll bet during christmas, americans felt especially
guilty about the institution of slavery. i mean they were sitting
around the fireplace, telling stories of jesus and freedom, and
roasting chestnuts, yet US was burdened with the institution of
slavery. i'll bet if you do research, the abolitionists were affected
by the christmas spirit in some way. indeed, someone should make a
mooie about how the founding fathers first celebrated christmas. not
some saccharine feel good movie but a heartfelt mooie like 'it's a
wonderful life'. imagine showing thomas jefferson during christmas,
boffing one of his negress slaves. christmas approaches and he feels a
pang of guilt for his trangressions against christ's teaching.
i'll bet the first inauguration took place in winter. so, christmas
is more than some religious holiday. it's interwoven with the fabric of
american values, culture, history. every x-mas, americans are reunited
in spirit with the founding fathers back in 1789 or whatever the year
was when americans won independence from great britain.
i dare say christmas, for this reason, is doubly meaningful for
americans than for europeans. for europeans, christianity meant a long
tradition. christmas was an old old day of observance. but, in the US,
the meaning of christmas was reborn. unlike european celebration of
christamas, americans made it more lively, more vibrant, more
celebratory, more materialistic, more fun, more hopeful, more youthful,
more regenerative, more idealistic, more confident. americans took the
underfed saint nicolas of europe and fed him lots of burgers and coca
cola, and the american santa became as fat as the lardasses we see
milling about in so many shopping malls. yakov always said 'i love
this country' for a good reason.

so, we must remember christmas in an american way. you don't have to be
christian to understand, experience, and enjoy the american meaning of
christmas. when a hindu kid from india comes to the US, he's not
offended by signs in his school that says 'merry x-mas'. he's curioius,
fascinated, excited, even enthralled. even though he aint christian,
he loves the lights, the festivities, the spirit, the magic in the air.
he goes home and tells his hindu pa and ma, and they are amused,
delighted, and pleased that america is such a fun, merry, jolly, silly
place for their kid to grow up in. indeed, i dare anyone to name a
more child-centric holiday than christmas. kids love christmas,
christian or non-christian. and a certain childlike innocence,
naivete, and hopefulness is what america is about. let europeans look
down on us as simpletons and such. herod and rich romans and
priveleged hebrews looked down on poor jesus too. the great thing about
america is you can be as rich as a roman or hebrew king AND be a
simpleton like one of jesus's followers.

the people who've waged war on christmas are not the immigrants but
leftists and other radicals who presume to speak in the name of
non-christians. it's these radicals who sow seeds of hatred, distrust,
and resentment in the impressionable minds of non-honkey kids who
arrive in the US. it's these radicals--many of them hateful digusting
leftwing jews or anemic prissy pussyboy guilt ridden self-loathing east
coast protestants and secularites--who've waged the war on christmas.
waging war on christmas is to wage on america because a unique american
mood and spirit have developed around christmas throughout american
history. just look at 'little women' with winona ryder. christmas is
a big part of it. if an atheist like myself can find so much meaning
and happiness in christmas as expressed in 'it's a wonderful life',
'little women', 'christmas story', and 'the godfather', what the hell
is your stupidass problem--that is if you're a radical secularite
leftist turdfuc*?

.

User: "JT"

Title: Re: is 'happy holidays' also exclusionary? also, the importance of x-mas in american history and culture 18 Dec 2006 09:26:03 PM
"Happy Holidays" is offensive to those who choose not to celebrate any
holiday in the December/January months.
The phrase therefore violates those citizens' constitutional right to remain
unoffended, and must be banned by the Supreme Court, whose job it is to ban
offensive behavior.
- JT
"peace to end all peace" <cerebureaucracy@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1166488717.910223.23880@48g2000cwx.googlegroups.com...

i agree

alejandro de tacobell wrote:

during this christmas season, some municipalities have taken measures
to remove anything that specifically refers to christmas. so, on
government property, we see signs that say 'happy holidays' instead of
'merry x-mas'. the argument is that a 'merry x-mas' sign would be
unconstitutional--it would violate the separation of church and
state--and it would also be exclusionary for atheists, muslims,
buddhists, and other folks.

the argument goes, as united states becomes more and more
multi-cultural and multi-religious, americans must be mindful of
non-christians. the state musn't favor one religion or one cultural
tradition over another.
now, some may contest this line of thinking by arguing that christmas
is more than a day of Religious observance. it is a part of cultural
heritage. it could be argued that christmas has much historical and
cultural value, like fourth of july or whatever. even non-christians
celebrate christmas. i grew up as an atheist and i always loved the
spirit of christmas when i was a kid. since i left my kiddie yrs
behind, i've grown humbuggish and grinch-like, but x-mas was always
special in my younger days. it meant the crisp cold of winter, tv
specials, magical lights, presents, two week vacation from school,
people getting drunk and happy, and so on. i experienced it culturally
and materialistically. it was real nice.
yet, secularites have defined christmas purely in religious terms.
they fail to see its cultural value. they argue that a 'merry x-mas'
sign in front of a government building or even in public schools is
exclusionary, theocratic, and yabba dabba. what idiocy.
alan dershawitz even argues that there should be no state observed
holiday for christmas. indeed, if we follow the logic of the
secularites, christmas should be just another day. and, we may be
heading in that direction.
this is what you reap from liberalism, the ideology of white faggotyass
pussyboys who've grown decadent, degenerate, weak, anemic, and dorky
when faced with the onslaught of the leftists--many of them radical
leftwing jewish--and darkies poisoned by leftists.

anyway, the real point of this rant is not about the darkies or
leftists. it's that if we follow the logic of secularite radicals, even
'happy holidays' is exclusionary, favoritist, and eurocentric if you
think about it. if a goverment building has a sign saying 'happy
holidays', it's obviously referring to x-mas, hanukkah, and new year.
both x-mas and hannukah are religious days of western origin. new year
isn't religious but it's based on the western calendar and is thereby
eurocentric.
one may ask why does a state building have 'happy holidays' sign up
during the x-mas, hannukah, and new year's season? why doesn't state
buildings have 'happy holidays' sign up during ramadan, buddah's
birthday, chinese new year, aztec new year, etc? why do US government
buildings give special 'happy holidays' recognition to x-mas, hannukah,
and eurocentric new year?
after all, august could be the month in which some islamic holy man,
kazakhi hero, some hindu god, or whatever was born. yet, why isn't
there any 'happy holidays' signs in front of government buildings
during the month of august? so, even if 'happy holidays' signs do NOT
specify christmas or eurocentric new year, they are defacto playing
favorites by recognizing the specialness of western winter holidays.
so, one could argue that the display of 'happy holidays' signs during
christmas season whereas absence of such during muslim or buddhist holy
days is exclusionary and unfair.

and consider new years day. other cultures have different new years.
why should american government only recognize the western new year?
isn't this cultural exclusionism, imperialism, favoritism, etc? why
don't US government buildings have signs saying 'happy new year' during
bantu new year, chinese new year, hindu new year, islamic new year,
gumbi new year?
why do they favor only the western new year?

indeed, if we truly wanted to be fair, there should be 'happy holidays'
signs up throughout the year. for all we know, march or september
could have holy days for people of other cultures. why should
government and businesses recognize the holiday festivities of the
season bracketing thanksgiving, christmas, hannukah, and new year?
i'm saying even if governments and businesses don't specifically say
'merry x-mas', the very display of 'happy holidays' signs during this
season indicates that there is a special recognition for x-mas,
hannukah, and eurocentric new year day.
if we truly wanted to be fair, there shouldn't be a special recognition
of festivity during what most of us know as the christmas holiday
season.

americans are so stupid, thanks to liberals. take the jappers who
understand the meaning of christmas much better though they are mostly
into shinto or buddhism or some other idiocy. christmas is huge in
japan though less than 2% of jappers are christian. why is this?
because jappers are as materialistic as the next guy; they love what
christmas in terms of its cultural import. it's a celebration of a
tradition that developed in the west. it has wonderful stories, some
religious, some fairytale-like. some sober, some for chillun. it's got
spiritual element, materialistic element. it's a season for charlie
brown cartoons and claymation rudolph. it's a time for eggnog and
turkey and ham--though if you're moral, you shouldn't eat pigs cuz they
are smarter than dogs(end the hogocaust).
so, jappers love and celebrate christmas for what it is. jappers
celebrate valentine too. valentine isn't jappish in origin. it's
western. but, jappers think it's a pretty cool, especially as girls buy
guys the chocolate in japan. jappers got something right. i
personally don't understand why guys get chocolate for girls in
america. girls will eat all that stuff, grow fat and ugly. who wants to
hump a fatsoess?

anyway, christmas is a cultural holiday and there should be nothing
wrong with governments or businesses putting up signs saying 'merry
x-mas'. maybe some cities in the east dropped that sign cuz alot of
shoppers are jewish. maybe in NY, alot of jews are ***** by
businesses that say 'merry x-mas'. maybe when jews see rudolph the
rednosed reindeer, they see rudolph hess the brownshirted nazi. i
dunno. and of course, east coast protestant types tend to be so
liberally faggoty and anemic and apologetic for all the crimes
committed by honkers. they love doing anything that undermines their
own cultural and politial authority. you can bet these white boy
liberal faggoty fools will all pee in their pants and vote for barack
obama cuz GOOD white folks are supposed to kowtow before the noble
negro and suck jigro balls.

i tell ya, this country is really fuc*ed up when we can't even say
merry x-mas without being called a bigot. i hope jesus would return and
kick some arse.

the way i see it, christmas is more necessary than ever because it is
such a great acculturating tool for new immigrants, even if, or
especially if, they are not christian. immigration has grown bigger
than ever. when newcomers arrive in america, they--and especially their
kids--should learn that US is more than about dry laws and rights.
america is part of western tradition/civilization, and americans have
their own version or take on that tradition. one becomes american not
just by reading the constitution and learning the laws but by watching
americans mooies, listening to american music, watching american tv,
and such. these days, mooies and tv suck. and music is mostly ugabuga
negroes acting like apes. but, christmas is one of the few
americanisms that still has much goodness, beauty, magic, hope, etc.
take 'it's a wonderful life'. it's very christmasy and very american.
take 'merry x-mas charlie brown'. even if you're a immigrant hindu or
muslim kid, you can watch that cartoon and be touched by how charlie
brown saves a runty christmas tree. there are univeral values there
but also a sense of unique americanness. by experiencing the magic of
x-mas, one doesn't necessary become christian. but, one experiences
certain aspects of americanness--of which christianity played a very
important part--that cannot be expressed thru laws and such.
even most americans born here know very little about the law. most of
us define our americanness thru our culture, thru our emotional lives.
and christmas is very important in embodying and expressing something
essential about the american character, hope, values, and such.
indeed, american christmas is different than christmas in other
nations. in sweden, people get together, eat a big dinner, dance a
primitive kind of locomotive, and try to blow out candles by farting.
but, american version of christmas is more hopeful, more populist, more
norman rockwellish. america is a young country, and christmas for
americans means the possibility of rebirth, redemption, and such. take
'it's a wonderful life'. george bailey is reborn during christmas.
take 'meet john doe'. even the fat capitalist pig grows a bit
sentimental during christmas and wants to do good. christamas, more
than fourth of july, makes us feel the essence of americanism. take
the painting where george washington crosses valley forge or river
forge or whatever. there's snow. he looks like santa bringing us
freedom. and, there was much fighting in the winter months during the
war of independence. christmas makes us remember how this country was
born. like jesus as a baby had no place to go but mary found some
stable and he was born. similarly, american freedom was almost snuffed
out. king george wanted to be nasty like king herod. he wanted to kill
american liberty and independence in the cradle. but, americans got
together and kicked george's arse. many of the key events during the
war of independence took place winter month. i saw the pictures in
history books. lots of snow.

indeed, the founding fathers all celebrated christmas.
every christmas, americans, rich and poor, powerful and weak, old and
young, were reminded of the good things they got in their lives.
christmas remind us of the first days of this nation. how this country
grew from nothingness, from weakness, like jesus in the stable among
the cows and donkeys. during christmas, even negro slaves were given
days off and given something more to eat--extra servings of fried
chicken, perhaps. i'll bet during christmas, americans felt especially
guilty about the institution of slavery. i mean they were sitting
around the fireplace, telling stories of jesus and freedom, and
roasting chestnuts, yet US was burdened with the institution of
slavery. i'll bet if you do research, the abolitionists were affected
by the christmas spirit in some way. indeed, someone should make a
mooie about how the founding fathers first celebrated christmas. not
some saccharine feel good movie but a heartfelt mooie like 'it's a
wonderful life'. imagine showing thomas jefferson during christmas,
boffing one of his negress slaves. christmas approaches and he feels a
pang of guilt for his trangressions against christ's teaching.
i'll bet the first inauguration took place in winter. so, christmas
is more than some religious holiday. it's interwoven with the fabric of
american values, culture, history. every x-mas, americans are reunited
in spirit with the founding fathers back in 1789 or whatever the year
was when americans won independence from great britain.
i dare say christmas, for this reason, is doubly meaningful for
americans than for europeans. for europeans, christianity meant a long
tradition. christmas was an old old day of observance. but, in the US,
the meaning of christmas was reborn. unlike european celebration of
christamas, americans made it more lively, more vibrant, more
celebratory, more materialistic, more fun, more hopeful, more youthful,
more regenerative, more idealistic, more confident. americans took the
underfed saint nicolas of europe and fed him lots of burgers and coca
cola, and the american santa became as fat as the lardasses we see
milling about in so many shopping malls. yakov always said 'i love
this country' for a good reason.

so, we must remember christmas in an american way. you don't have to be
christian to understand, experience, and enjoy the american meaning of
christmas. when a hindu kid from india comes to the US, he's not
offended by signs in his school that says 'merry x-mas'. he's curioius,
fascinated, excited, even enthralled. even though he aint christian,
he loves the lights, the festivities, the spirit, the magic in the air.
he goes home and tells his hindu pa and ma, and they are amused,
delighted, and pleased that america is such a fun, merry, jolly, silly
place for their kid to grow up in. indeed, i dare anyone to name a
more child-centric holiday than christmas. kids love christmas,
christian or non-christian. and a certain childlike innocence,
naivete, and hopefulness is what america is about. let europeans look
down on us as simpletons and such. herod and rich romans and
priveleged hebrews looked down on poor jesus too. the great thing about
america is you can be as rich as a roman or hebrew king AND be a
simpleton like one of jesus's followers.

the people who've waged war on christmas are not the immigrants but
leftists and other radicals who presume to speak in the name of
non-christians. it's these radicals who sow seeds of hatred, distrust,
and resentment in the impressionable minds of non-honkey kids who
arrive in the US. it's these radicals--many of them hateful digusting
leftwing jews or anemic prissy pussyboy guilt ridden self-loathing east
coast protestants and secularites--who've waged the war on christmas.
waging war on christmas is to wage on america because a unique american
mood and spirit have developed around christmas throughout american
history. just look at 'little women' with winona ryder. christmas is
a big part of it. if an atheist like myself can find so much meaning
and happiness in christmas as expressed in 'it's a wonderful life',
'little women', 'christmas story', and 'the godfather', what the hell
is your stupidass problem--that is if you're a radical secularite
leftist turdfuc*?


.
User: "Lookingglass"

Title: Re: is 'happy holidays' also exclusionary? also, the importance of x-mas in american history and culture 18 Dec 2006 10:06:40 PM
"JT" <a@b.c> wrote in message news:fZIhh.3248$WS4.2735@trndny07...


The phrase therefore violates those citizens' constitutional right to
remain unoffended, and must be banned by the Supreme Court, whose job it
is to ban offensive behavior.

I am offended by the Bush administration...let the Supreme Court work on
that one. Better still...forget it...they worked with that once before, and
look at where it got us (US)...!!!
;^)
dancin' dave (...living in his nowhere land...)
www.Shemakhan.com
.

User: "NC"

Title: Re: is 'happy holidays' also exclusionary? also, the importance of x-mas in american history and culture 18 Dec 2006 10:02:12 PM
Banning offensive behavior is offensive to some people, so we should ban
the practice of banning offensive behavior.
.


User: "JT"

Title: Re: is 'happy holidays' also exclusionary? also, the importance of x-mas in american history and culture 18 Dec 2006 08:26:56 PM
"Happy Holidays" was originally just a way to say "Merry Christmas and A
Happy New Year" in a succinct way. It uses half as many letters and is
probably cheaper to commission signage with some brevity, me thinks.
Everyone should take a deep breath.
JT



"peace to end all peace" <cerebureaucracy@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1166488717.910223.23880@48g2000cwx.googlegroups.com...

i agree

alejandro de tacobell wrote:

during this christmas season, some municipalities have taken measures
to remove anything that specifically refers to christmas. so, on
government property, we see signs that say 'happy holidays' instead of
'merry x-mas'. the argument is that a 'merry x-mas' sign would be
unconstitutional--it would violate the separation of church and
state--and it would also be exclusionary for atheists, muslims,
buddhists, and other folks.

the argument goes, as united states becomes more and more
multi-cultural and multi-religious, americans must be mindful of
non-christians. the state musn't favor one religion or one cultural
tradition over another.
now, some may contest this line of thinking by arguing that christmas
is more than a day of Religious observance. it is a part of cultural
heritage. it could be argued that christmas has much historical and
cultural value, like fourth of july or whatever. even non-christians
celebrate christmas. i grew up as an atheist and i always loved the
spirit of christmas when i was a kid. since i left my kiddie yrs
behind, i've grown humbuggish and grinch-like, but x-mas was always
special in my younger days. it meant the crisp cold of winter, tv
specials, magical lights, presents, two week vacation from school,
people getting drunk and happy, and so on. i experienced it culturally
and materialistically. it was real nice.
yet, secularites have defined christmas purely in religious terms.
they fail to see its cultural value. they argue that a 'merry x-mas'
sign in front of a government building or even in public schools is
exclusionary, theocratic, and yabba dabba. what idiocy.
alan dershawitz even argues that there should be no state observed
holiday for christmas. indeed, if we follow the logic of the
secularites, christmas should be just another day. and, we may be
heading in that direction.
this is what you reap from liberalism, the ideology of white faggotyass
pussyboys who've grown decadent, degenerate, weak, anemic, and dorky
when faced with the onslaught of the leftists--many of them radical
leftwing jewish--and darkies poisoned by leftists.

anyway, the real point of this rant is not about the darkies or
leftists. it's that if we follow the logic of secularite radicals, even
'happy holidays' is exclusionary, favoritist, and eurocentric if you
think about it. if a goverment building has a sign saying 'happy
holidays', it's obviously referring to x-mas, hanukkah, and new year.
both x-mas and hannukah are religious days of western origin. new year
isn't religious but it's based on the western calendar and is thereby
eurocentric.
one may ask why does a state building have 'happy holidays' sign up
during the x-mas, hannukah, and new year's season? why doesn't state
buildings have 'happy holidays' sign up during ramadan, buddah's
birthday, chinese new year, aztec new year, etc? why do US government
buildings give special 'happy holidays' recognition to x-mas, hannukah,
and eurocentric new year?
after all, august could be the month in which some islamic holy man,
kazakhi hero, some hindu god, or whatever was born. yet, why isn't
there any 'happy holidays' signs in front of government buildings
during the month of august? so, even if 'happy holidays' signs do NOT
specify christmas or eurocentric new year, they are defacto playing
favorites by recognizing the specialness of western winter holidays.
so, one could argue that the display of 'happy holidays' signs during
christmas season whereas absence of such during muslim or buddhist holy
days is exclusionary and unfair.

and consider new years day. other cultures have different new years.
why should american government only recognize the western new year?
isn't this cultural exclusionism, imperialism, favoritism, etc? why
don't US government buildings have signs saying 'happy new year' during
bantu new year, chinese new year, hindu new year, islamic new year,
gumbi new year?
why do they favor only the western new year?

indeed, if we truly wanted to be fair, there should be 'happy holidays'
signs up throughout the year. for all we know, march or september
could have holy days for people of other cultures. why should
government and businesses recognize the holiday festivities of the
season bracketing thanksgiving, christmas, hannukah, and new year?
i'm saying even if governments and businesses don't specifically say
'merry x-mas', the very display of 'happy holidays' signs during this
season indicates that there is a special recognition for x-mas,
hannukah, and eurocentric new year day.
if we truly wanted to be fair, there shouldn't be a special recognition
of festivity during what most of us know as the christmas holiday
season.

americans are so stupid, thanks to liberals. take the jappers who
understand the meaning of christmas much better though they are mostly
into shinto or buddhism or some other idiocy. christmas is huge in
japan though less than 2% of jappers are christian. why is this?
because jappers are as materialistic as the next guy; they love what
christmas in terms of its cultural import. it's a celebration of a
tradition that developed in the west. it has wonderful stories, some
religious, some fairytale-like. some sober, some for chillun. it's got
spiritual element, materialistic element. it's a season for charlie
brown cartoons and claymation rudolph. it's a time for eggnog and
turkey and ham--though if you're moral, you shouldn't eat pigs cuz they
are smarter than dogs(end the hogocaust).
so, jappers love and celebrate christmas for what it is. jappers
celebrate valentine too. valentine isn't jappish in origin. it's
western. but, jappers think it's a pretty cool, especially as girls buy
guys the chocolate in japan. jappers got something right. i
personally don't understand why guys get chocolate for girls in
america. girls will eat all that stuff, grow fat and ugly. who wants to
hump a fatsoess?

anyway, christmas is a cultural holiday and there should be nothing
wrong with governments or businesses putting up signs saying 'merry
x-mas'. maybe some cities in the east dropped that sign cuz alot of
shoppers are jewish. maybe in NY, alot of jews are ***** by
businesses that say 'merry x-mas'. maybe when jews see rudolph the
rednosed reindeer, they see rudolph hess the brownshirted nazi. i
dunno. and of course, east coast protestant types tend to be so
liberally faggoty and anemic and apologetic for all the crimes
committed by honkers. they love doing anything that undermines their
own cultural and politial authority. you can bet these white boy
liberal faggoty fools will all pee in their pants and vote for barack
obama cuz GOOD white folks are supposed to kowtow before the noble
negro and suck jigro balls.

i tell ya, this country is really fuc*ed up when we can't even say
merry x-mas without being called a bigot. i hope jesus would return and
kick some arse.

the way i see it, christmas is more necessary than ever because it is
such a great acculturating tool for new immigrants, even if, or
especially if, they are not christian. immigration has grown bigger
than ever. when newcomers arrive in america, they--and especially their
kids--should learn that US is more than about dry laws and rights.
america is part of western tradition/civilization, and americans have
their own version or take on that tradition. one becomes american not
just by reading the constitution and learning the laws but by watching
americans mooies, listening to american music, watching american tv,
and such. these days, mooies and tv suck. and music is mostly ugabuga
negroes acting like apes. but, christmas is one of the few
americanisms that still has much goodness, beauty, magic, hope, etc.
take 'it's a wonderful life'. it's very christmasy and very american.
take 'merry x-mas charlie brown'. even if you're a immigrant hindu or
muslim kid, you can watch that cartoon and be touched by how charlie
brown saves a runty christmas tree. there are univeral values there
but also a sense of unique americanness. by experiencing the magic of
x-mas, one doesn't necessary become christian. but, one experiences
certain aspects of americanness--of which christianity played a very
important part--that cannot be expressed thru laws and such.
even most americans born here know very little about the law. most of
us define our americanness thru our culture, thru our emotional lives.
and christmas is very important in embodying and expressing something
essential about the american character, hope, values, and such.
indeed, american christmas is different than christmas in other
nations. in sweden, people get together, eat a big dinner, dance a
primitive kind of locomotive, and try to blow out candles by farting.
but, american version of christmas is more hopeful, more populist, more
norman rockwellish. america is a young country, and christmas for
americans means the possibility of rebirth, redemption, and such. take
'it's a wonderful life'. george bailey is reborn during christmas.
take 'meet john doe'. even the fat capitalist pig grows a bit
sentimental during christmas and wants to do good. christamas, more
than fourth of july, makes us feel the essence of americanism. take
the painting where george washington crosses valley forge or river
forge or whatever. there's snow. he looks like santa bringing us
freedom. and, there was much fighting in the winter months during the
war of independence. christmas makes us remember how this country was
born. like jesus as a baby had no place to go but mary found some
stable and he was born. similarly, american freedom was almost snuffed
out. king george wanted to be nasty like king herod. he wanted to kill
american liberty and independence in the cradle. but, americans got
together and kicked george's arse. many of the key events during the
war of independence took place winter month. i saw the pictures in
history books. lots of snow.

indeed, the founding fathers all celebrated christmas.
every christmas, americans, rich and poor, powerful and weak, old and
young, were reminded of the good things they got in their lives.
christmas remind us of the first days of this nation. how this country
grew from nothingness, from weakness, like jesus in the stable among
the cows and donkeys. during christmas, even negro slaves were given
days off and given something more to eat--extra servings of fried
chicken, perhaps. i'll bet during christmas, americans felt especially
guilty about the institution of slavery. i mean they were sitting
around the fireplace, telling stories of jesus and freedom, and
roasting chestnuts, yet US was burdened with the institution of
slavery. i'll bet if you do research, the abolitionists were affected
by the christmas spirit in some way. indeed, someone should make a
mooie about how the founding fathers first celebrated christmas. not
some saccharine feel good movie but a heartfelt mooie like 'it's a
wonderful life'. imagine showing thomas jefferson during christmas,
boffing one of his negress slaves. christmas approaches and he feels a
pang of guilt for his trangressions against christ's teaching.
i'll bet the first inauguration took place in winter. so, christmas
is more than some religious holiday. it's interwoven with the fabric of
american values, culture, history. every x-mas, americans are reunited
in spirit with the founding fathers back in 1789 or whatever the year
was when americans won independence from great britain.
i dare say christmas, for this reason, is doubly meaningful for
americans than for europeans. for europeans, christianity meant a long
tradition. christmas was an old old day of observance. but, in the US,
the meaning of christmas was reborn. unlike european celebration of
christamas, americans made it more lively, more vibrant, more
celebratory, more materialistic, more fun, more hopeful, more youthful,
more regenerative, more idealistic, more confident. americans took the
underfed saint nicolas of europe and fed him lots of burgers and coca
cola, and the american santa became as fat as the lardasses we see
milling about in so many shopping malls. yakov always said 'i love
this country' for a good reason.

so, we must remember christmas in an american way. you don't have to be
christian to understand, experience, and enjoy the american meaning of
christmas. when a hindu kid from india comes to the US, he's not
offended by signs in his school that says 'merry x-mas'. he's curioius,
fascinated, excited, even enthralled. even though he aint christian,
he loves the lights, the festivities, the spirit, the magic in the air.
he goes home and tells his hindu pa and ma, and they are amused,
delighted, and pleased that america is such a fun, merry, jolly, silly
place for their kid to grow up in. indeed, i dare anyone to name a
more child-centric holiday than christmas. kids love christmas,
christian or non-christian. and a certain childlike innocence,
naivete, and hopefulness is what america is about. let europeans look
down on us as simpletons and such. herod and rich romans and
priveleged hebrews looked down on poor jesus too. the great thing about
america is you can be as rich as a roman or hebrew king AND be a
simpleton like one of jesus's followers.

the people who've waged war on christmas are not the immigrants but
leftists and other radicals who presume to speak in the name of
non-christians. it's these radicals who sow seeds of hatred, distrust,
and resentment in the impressionable minds of non-honkey kids who
arrive in the US. it's these radicals--many of them hateful digusting
leftwing jews or anemic prissy pussyboy guilt ridden self-loathing east
coast protestants and secularites--who've waged the war on christmas.
waging war on christmas is to wage on america because a unique american
mood and spirit have developed around christmas throughout american
history. just look at 'little women' with winona ryder. christmas is
a big part of it. if an atheist like myself can find so much meaning
and happiness in christmas as expressed in 'it's a wonderful life',
'little women', 'christmas story', and 'the godfather', what the hell
is your stupidass problem--that is if you're a radical secularite
leftist turdfuc*?


.
User: "Paul Ilechko"

Title: Re: is 'happy holidays' also exclusionary? also, the importance ofx-mas in american history and culture 18 Dec 2006 08:33:10 PM
JT wrote:

"Happy Holidays" was originally just a way to say "Merry Christmas and A
Happy New Year" in a succinct way. It uses half as many letters and is
probably cheaper to commission signage with some brevity, me thinks.
Everyone should take a deep breath.

I hate to add to a Gaza-spawned thread, but given that even Richard
Dawkins celebrates Christmas I think that we can safely say that it's a
totally secular holiday at this point.
.
User: "Lookingglass"

Title: Re: is 'happy holidays' also exclusionary? also, the importance of x-mas in american history and culture 18 Dec 2006 09:57:48 PM
"Paul Ilechko" <pilechko@patmedia.net> wrote in message
news:4up1b4F1990gjU1@mid.individual.net...


I hate to add to a Gaza-spawned thread, but given that even Richard
Dawkins celebrates Christmas I think that we can safely say that it's a
totally secular holiday at this point.

Are you sure he is celebrating Christmas and not SOLSTICE...?
dancin' dave (...ain't been 'round since you know when...)
www.Shemakhan.com
.
User: "Paul Ilechko"

Title: Re: is 'happy holidays' also exclusionary? also, the importance ofx-mas in american history and culture 19 Dec 2006 07:38:19 AM
Lookingglass wrote:

"Paul Ilechko" <pilechko@patmedia.net> wrote in message
news:4up1b4F1990gjU1@mid.individual.net...

I hate to add to a Gaza-spawned thread, but given that even Richard
Dawkins celebrates Christmas I think that we can safely say that it's a
totally secular holiday at this point.


Are you sure he is celebrating Christmas and not SOLSTICE...?

Yes. I'm sure. Read the interview with him.
.
User: "Christopher A.Lee"

Title: Re: is 'happy holidays' also exclusionary? also, the importance of x-mas in american history and culture 19 Dec 2006 07:42:04 AM
On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 08:38:19 -0500, Paul Ilechko
<pilechko@patmedia.net> wrote:

Lookingglass wrote:

"Paul Ilechko" <pilechko@patmedia.net> wrote in message
news:4up1b4F1990gjU1@mid.individual.net...

I hate to add to a Gaza-spawned thread, but given that even Richard
Dawkins celebrates Christmas I think that we can safely say that it's a
totally secular holiday at this point.


Are you sure he is celebrating Christmas and not SOLSTICE...?


Yes. I'm sure. Read the interview with him.

Most British people have a secular Christmas. Religionists aren't so
pushily, obsessively intrusive as in the USA. The rest of the Western
world isn't as compulsively religious as the USA.
.
User: "Dale Houstman"

Title: Re: is 'happy holidays' also exclusionary? also, the importance ofx-mas in american history and culture 19 Dec 2006 08:31:08 AM
Christopher A.Lee wrote:

On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 08:38:19 -0500, Paul Ilechko
<pilechko@patmedia.net> wrote:


Lookingglass wrote:

"Paul Ilechko" <pilechko@patmedia.net> wrote in message
news:4up1b4F1990gjU1@mid.individual.net...

I hate to add to a Gaza-spawned thread, but given that even Richard
Dawkins celebrates Christmas I think that we can safely say that it's a
totally secular holiday at this point.


Are you sure he is celebrating Christmas and not SOLSTICE...?


Yes. I'm sure. Read the interview with him.



Most British people have a secular Christmas. Religionists aren't so
pushily, obsessively intrusive as in the USA. The rest of the Western
world isn't as compulsively religious as the USA.

You shouldn't listen so much to the hysteria on U.S. media: there are
plenty of secularists in the U.S. who celebrate Christmas for the
diverse event that it it, feeling only slightly annoyed by the
surrounding religiosity and rampant materialism. Hell, I even listen to
religious Christmas music, which is among some of the most beautiful
music ever written. I have nothing against transcendental emotion, which
is only slightly ruined by its kidnapping by religious capos and
Christian gangs.
dmh
.
User: "Lookingglass"

Title: Re: is 'happy holidays' also exclusionary? also, the importance of x-mas in american history and culture 19 Dec 2006 03:43:41 PM
"Dale Houstman" <dmh7@skypoint.com> wrote in message
news:4587F7AC.5080303@skypoint.com...


Hell, I even listen to religious Christmas music, which is among some of
the most beautiful music ever written. I have nothing against
transcendental emotion, which is only slightly ruined by its kidnapping by
religious capos and Christian gangs.

dmh

LOL
As an 'atheist', I listen to Bach's Christmas Oratorio 'religiously'...!!!
And a few 'masses' too. I recently discovered Biber's MISSA
BRUXELLENSIS...sublime. Though during one glorious musical moment, I could
swear I heard the choir sing out..."Behold, the Republican Party!" Now I
must admit that I had imbibed an 'eggnog' or two, but THAT vulgar Latin put
me right off. I had to immediately retreat to my 'womb'.
;^)
....otherwise, a beautiful work...worth searching out...magnificently
recorded by Jordi Savali and associates. (Accept no substitutes.)
dancin' dave (...oh, I believe in yesterday...)
www.Shemakhan.com
.
User: "Sean Carroll"

Title: Re: is 'happy holidays' also exclusionary? also, the importance ofx-mas in american history and culture 21 Dec 2006 11:42:07 AM
Lookingglass wrote:

"Dale Houstman" <dmh7@skypoint.com> wrote

Hell, I even listen to religious Christmas music, which is among some of
the most beautiful music ever written. I have nothing against
transcendental emotion, which is only slightly ruined by its kidnapping by
religious capos and Christian gangs.

As an 'atheist', I listen to Bach's Christmas Oratorio 'religiously'...!!!

I love Norman Greenbaum's 'Spirit in the Sky' and Joan Osborne's '(What
If God Was) One of Us', even though I'm irreligious.
Of course, I also like the Beatles' 'Run for Your Life' even though I
don't support making death threats to your girlfriend. Sometimes a song
is just a song.
--
--Sean
http://spclsd223.livejournal.com/
'I love the smell of pus in the morning. It smells like ... victory.'
--Dr Gregory House
.

User: ""

Title: Re: is 'happy holidays' also exclusionary? also, the importance of x-mas in american history and culture 19 Dec 2006 04:27:15 PM
Lookingglass wrote:

"Dale Houstman" <dmh7@skypoint.com> wrote in message
news:4587F7AC.5080303@skypoint.com...


Hell, I even listen to religious Christmas music, which is among some of
the most beautiful music ever written. I have nothing against
transcendental emotion, which is only slightly ruined by its kidnapping by
religious capos and Christian gangs.

dmh



LOL

As an 'atheist', I listen to Bach's Christmas Oratorio 'religiously'...!!!
And a few 'masses' too. I recently discovered Biber's MISSA
BRUXELLENSIS...sublime. Though during one glorious musical moment, I could
swear I heard the choir sing out..."Behold, the Republican Party!" Now I
must admit that I had imbibed an 'eggnog' or two, but THAT vulgar Latin put
me right off. I had to immediately retreat to my 'womb'.

;^)

...otherwise, a beautiful work...worth searching out...magnificently
recorded by Jordi Savali and associates. (Accept no substitutes.)


dancin' dave (...oh, I believe in yesterday...)
www.Shemakhan.com

There will be a day when running away from God by saying you are an
atheist will not work. All will look upon Him! All will bow! I am not
saying this because I think myself to be superior, I too will bow. The
only difference between you and I is that I choose to bow now. He truly
is the best thing that could happen to anyone. If you honestly don't
believe He is real why don't you ask Him to prove Himself to you? Have
you ever done that? Sincerely? I pray He will make Himself plain to
you. He is not sitting in heaven with a magnifying glass waiting to
smite, if that were so we would all be dead. I am so sorry for any way
you have misunderstood who He is.
God Bless
.
User: "JT"

Title: Re: is 'happy holidays' also exclusionary? also, the importance of x-mas in american history and culture 19 Dec 2006 07:01:23 PM
<>

There will be a day when running away from God by saying you are an
atheist will not work. All will look upon Him! All will bow! I am not
saying this because I think myself to be superior, I too will bow. The
only difference between you and I is that I choose to bow now. He truly
is the best thing that could happen to anyone. If you honestly don't
believe He is real why don't you ask Him to prove Himself to you? Have
you ever done that? Sincerely? I pray He will make Himself plain to
you. He is not sitting in heaven with a magnifying glass waiting to
smite, if that were so we would all be dead. I am so sorry for any way
you have misunderstood who He is.

God Bless



*cue sound of cuckoo clock
.

User: "Robibnikoff"

Title: Re: is 'happy holidays' also exclusionary? also, the importance of x-mas in american history and culture 20 Dec 2006 08:51:59 AM
<kingskd2002@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1166567235.518752.117320@80g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...


Lookingglass wrote:

"Dale Houstman" <dmh7@skypoint.com> wrote in message
news:4587F7AC.5080303@skypoint.com...


Hell, I even listen to religious Christmas music, which is among some of
the most beautiful music ever written. I have nothing against
transcendental emotion, which is only slightly ruined by its kidnapping
by
religious capos and Christian gangs.

dmh



LOL

As an 'atheist', I listen to Bach's Christmas Oratorio
'religiously'...!!!
And a few 'masses' too. I recently discovered Biber's MISSA
BRUXELLENSIS...sublime. Though during one glorious musical moment, I
could
swear I heard the choir sing out..."Behold, the Republican Party!" Now I
must admit that I had imbibed an 'eggnog' or two, but THAT vulgar Latin
put
me right off. I had to immediately retreat to my 'womb'.

;^)

...otherwise, a beautiful work...worth searching out...magnificently
recorded by Jordi Savali and associates. (Accept no substitutes.)


dancin' dave (...oh, I believe in yesterday...)
www.Shemakhan.com




There will be a day when running away from God by saying you are an
atheist will not work. All will look upon Him! All will bow! I am not
saying this because I think myself to be superior, I too will bow. The
only difference between you and I is that I choose to bow now. He truly
is the best thing that could happen to anyone. If you honestly don't
believe He is real why don't you ask Him to prove Himself to you? Have
you ever done that? Sincerely? I pray He will make Himself plain to
you. He is not sitting in heaven with a magnifying glass waiting to
smite, if that were so we would all be dead. I am so sorry for any way
you have misunderstood who He is.

Sonny, just how long have you been suffering from mental illness?
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
I think religion is so popular because even the village idiot can feel like
Einstein without any effort. - Denis Loubet
.

User: "Lookingglass"

Title: Re: is 'happy holidays' also exclusionary? also, the importance of x-mas in american history and culture 20 Dec 2006 05:07:13 PM
<kingskd2002@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1166567235.518752.117320@80g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...


There will be a day when running away from God by saying you are an
atheist will not work. All will look upon Him! All will bow! I am not
saying this because I think myself to be superior, I too will bow. The
only difference between you and I is that I choose to bow now. He truly
is the best thing that could happen to anyone. If you honestly don't
believe He is real why don't you ask Him to prove Himself to you? Have
you ever done that? Sincerely? I pray He will make Himself plain to
you. He is not sitting in heaven with a magnifying glass waiting to
smite, if that were so we would all be dead. I am so sorry for any way
you have misunderstood who He is.

God Bless

I actually wasted some of my life doing just that.
There is no god...there are many gods...ALL created by folks like you and
me. Please don't be so condescending.
dancin' dave (...it is believing...)
.

User: "Dale Houstman"

Title: Re: is 'happy holidays' also exclusionary? also, the importance ofx-mas in american history and culture 19 Dec 2006 08:15:14 PM
wrote:

Lookingglass wrote:

"Dale Houstman" <dmh7@skypoint.com> wrote in message
news:4587F7AC.5080303@skypoint.com...

Hell, I even listen to religious Christmas music, which is among some of
the most beautiful music ever written. I have nothing against
transcendental emotion, which is only slightly ruined by its kidnapping by
religious capos and Christian gangs.

dmh



LOL

As an 'atheist', I listen to Bach's Christmas Oratorio 'religiously'...!!!
And a few 'masses' too. I recently discovered Biber's MISSA
BRUXELLENSIS...sublime. Though during one glorious musical moment, I could
swear I heard the choir sing out..."Behold, the Republican Party!" Now I
must admit that I had imbibed an 'eggnog' or two, but THAT vulgar Latin put
me right off. I had to immediately retreat to my 'womb'.

;^)

...otherwise, a beautiful work...worth searching out...magnificently
recorded by Jordi Savali and associates. (Accept no substitutes.)


dancin' dave (...oh, I believe in yesterday...)
www.Shemakhan.com





There will be a day when running away from God by saying you are an
atheist will not work.

It will always work. Atheists are not cowed by the usual religious
fear-mongering.

All will look upon Him! All will bow! I am not
saying this because I think myself to be superior, I too will bow. The
only difference between you and I is that I choose to bow now.

Some people are born fawners...

He truly
is the best thing that could happen to anyone. If you honestly don't
believe He is real why don't you ask Him to prove Himself to you?

Why in the world would I ask an imaginary being to prove itself to me?
Bizarre...

Have
you ever done that?

Not even in the 60s when I was high on whatever.

Sincerely? I pray He will make Himself plain to
you. He is not sitting in heaven with a magnifying glass waiting to
smite, if that were so we would all be dead. I am so sorry for any way
you have misunderstood who He is.

I haven't: he's imaginary. Perfect understnading...
dmh
.
User: "Morton Davis"

Title: Re: is 'happy holidays' also exclusionary? also, the importance of x-mas in american history and culture 20 Dec 2006 09:10:55 AM
"Dale Houstman" <dmh7@skypoint.com> wrote in message
news:45889CB2.2040207@skypoint.com...



kingskd2002@yahoo.com wrote:

Lookingglass wrote:

"Dale Houstman" <dmh7@skypoint.com> wrote in message
news:4587F7AC.5080303@skypoint.com...

Hell, I even listen to religious Christmas music, which is among some

of

the most beautiful music ever written. I have nothing against
transcendental emotion, which is only slightly ruined by its kidnapping

by

religious capos and Christian gangs.

dmh



LOL

As an 'atheist', I listen to Bach's Christmas Oratorio

'religiously'...!!!

And a few 'masses' too. I recently discovered Biber's MISSA
BRUXELLENSIS...sublime. Though during one glorious musical moment, I

could

swear I heard the choir sing out..."Behold, the Republican Party!" Now I
must admit that I had imbibed an 'eggnog' or two, but THAT vulgar Latin

put

me right off. I had to immediately retreat to my 'womb'.

;^)

...otherwise, a beautiful work...worth searching out...magnificently
recorded by Jordi Savali and associates. (Accept no substitutes.)


dancin' dave (...oh, I believe in yesterday...)
www.Shemakhan.com





There will be a day when running away from God by saying you are an
atheist will not work.


It will always work. Atheists are not cowed by the usual religious
fear-mongering.


They can believe in God and heaven and hell so long as they do not force me
to believe it. I believe when you die that's it. Fade to black.
.


User: "Richard Smol"

Title: Re: is 'happy holidays' also exclusionary? also, the importance of x-mas in american history and culture 19 Dec 2006 04:37:21 PM
wrote:

There will be a day when running away from God by saying you are an
atheist will not work. All will look upon Him! All will bow! I am not
saying this because I think myself to be superior, I too will bow. The
only difference between you and I is that I choose to bow now.

Why would an almighty being want anything to bow before him? Sounds
like a massive ego problem to me. Anybody *demanding* to have others
bow in front of him is not worthy of any worship.
RS
.
User: "Alan Hope"

Title: Re: is 'happy holidays' also exclusionary? also, the importance of x-mas in american history and culture 20 Dec 2006 02:09:00 AM
Richard Smol goes:

kingskd2002@yahoo.com wrote:

There will be a day when running away from God by saying you are an
atheist will not work. All will look upon Him! All will bow! I am not
saying this because I think myself to be superior, I too will bow. The
only difference between you and I is that I choose to bow now.

Why would an almighty being want anything to bow before him? Sounds
like a massive ego problem to me. Anybody *demanding* to have others
bow in front of him is not worthy of any worship.

It's not "Him" demanding it of "you".
He created you for that very purpose. A whole Universe just to sustain
you, just so you can praise Him in all eternity.
If not, you burn forever in Hell.
It's what God calls free will.
--
AH
http://this-thing-of-ours.blogspot.com
.
User: "Robibnikoff"

Title: Re: is 'happy holidays' also exclusionary? also, the importance of x-mas in american history and culture 20 Dec 2006 08:53:37 AM
"Alan Hope" <not.alan.hope@mail.com> wrote in message
news:vprho2l97l430ec0c462j20lrnrduiagdo@4ax.com...

Richard Smol goes:

kingskd2002@yahoo.com wrote:


There will be a day when running away from God by saying you are an
atheist will not work. All will look upon Him! All will bow! I am not
saying this because I think myself to be superior, I too will bow. The
only difference between you and I is that I choose to bow now.


Why would an almighty being want anything to bow before him? Sounds
like a massive ego problem to me. Anybody *demanding* to have others
bow in front of him is not worthy of any worship.


It's not "Him" demanding it of "you".

He created you for that very purpose.

Who created what?
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
I think religion is so popular because even the village idiot can feel like
Einstein without any effort. - Denis Loubet
.

User: ""

Title: Re: is 'happy holidays' also exclusionary? also, the importance of x-mas in american history and culture 21 Dec 2006 06:05:20 AM
Alan Hope wrote:

Richard Smol goes:

kingskd2002@yahoo.com wrote:


There will be a day when running away from God by saying you are an
atheist will not work. All will look upon Him! All will bow! I am not
saying this because I think myself to be superior, I too will bow. The
only difference between you and I is that I choose to bow now.


Why would an almighty being want anything to bow before him? Sounds
like a massive ego problem to me. Anybody *demanding* to have others
bow in front of him is not worthy of any worship.


It's not "Him" demanding it of "you".

Which is in total contradiction with:

He created you for that very purpose. A whole Universe just to sustain
you, just so you can praise Him in all eternity.

If not, you burn forever in Hell.

How you people can claim two totally contradicting things without
noticing it is way beyond me. George Orwell had a nice name for this:
doublethink.

It's what God calls free will.

No. Offering someone a choice but punishing him when he makes the wrong
one is *not* the same as offering free will. It's idiocy. You worship a
totally psychotic god.
RS
.
User: "Alan Hope"

Title: Re: is 'happy holidays' also exclusionary? also, the importance of x-mas in american history and culture 21 Dec 2006 11:05:27 AM
goes:

Alan Hope wrote:

Richard Smol goes:

kingskd2002@yahoo.com wrote:

There will be a day when running away from God by saying you are an
atheist will not work. All will look upon Him! All will bow! I am not
saying this because I think myself to be superior, I too will bow. The
only difference between you and I is that I choose to bow now.

Why would an almighty being want anything to bow before him? Sounds
like a massive ego problem to me. Anybody *demanding* to have others
bow in front of him is not worthy of any worship.

It's not "Him" demanding it of "you".

Which is in total contradiction with:

He created you for that very purpose. A whole Universe just to sustain
you, just so you can praise Him in all eternity.

No it isn't.

If not, you burn forever in Hell.

How you people can claim two totally contradicting things without
noticing it is way beyond me. George Orwell had a nice name for this:
doublethink.

How "you people" can go through life completely unable to recognise
irony is a mystery to me. I take it from your dunderheadedness that
you're American, so it's probably just as well. The day an American
opens his eyes to irony, the whole fucking place will fall apart.

It's what God calls free will.

No. Offering someone a choice but punishing him when he makes the wrong
one is *not* the same as offering free will.

You don't say.

It's idiocy. You worship a
totally psychotic god.

What a stupid thing to say.
--
AH
http://this-thing-of-ours.blogspot.com
.

User: "Dale Houstman"

Title: Re: is 'happy holidays' also exclusionary? also, the importance ofx-mas in american history and culture 21 Dec 2006 06:19:22 AM
wrote:

Alan Hope wrote:

Richard Smol goes:


kingskd2002@yahoo.com wrote:


There will be a day when running away from God by saying you are an
atheist will not work. All will look upon Him! All will bow! I am not
saying this because I think myself to be superior, I too will bow. The
only difference between you and I is that I choose to bow now.


Why would an almighty being want anything to bow before him? Sounds
like a massive ego problem to me. Anybody *demanding* to have others
bow in front of him is not worthy of any worship.


It's not "Him" demanding it of "you".



Which is in total contradiction with:


He created you for that very purpose. A whole Universe just to sustain
you, just so you can praise Him in all eternity.

If not, you burn forever in Hell.



How you people can claim two totally contradicting things without
noticing it is way beyond me. George Orwell had a nice name for this:
doublethink.


It's what God calls free will.



No. Offering someone a choice but punishing him when he makes the wrong
one is *not* the same as offering free will. It's idiocy. You worship a
totally psychotic god.

RS

Which explains a whole lot of things...
dmh
.


User: "Rich Corinthian Leather"

Title: Re: is 'happy holidays' also exclusionary? also, the importance ofx-mas in american history and culture 20 Dec 2006 05:47:29 PM
Alan Hope wrote:

Richard Smol goes:

kingskd2002@yahoo.com wrote:


There will be a day when running away from God by saying you are an
atheist will not work. All will look upon Him! All will bow! I am not
saying this because I think myself to be superior, I too will bow. The
only difference between you and I is that I choose to bow now.


Why would an almighty being want anything to bow before him? Sounds
like a massive ego problem to me. Anybody *demanding* to have others
bow in front of him is not worthy of any worship.


It's not "Him" demanding it of "you".

He created you for that very purpose. A whole Universe just to sustain
you, just so you can praise Him in all eternity.

If not, you burn forever in Hell.

It's what God calls free will.


But which version of "god" are we to believe? Is it god 1.0, aka
Yahweh/Elohim, who told his followers to totally destroy their enemies
or is it god 2.0 who tells his believers to love one another except if
you (plural) have disagreements?
RCL
.
User: "Dale Houstman"

Title: Re: is 'happy holidays' also exclusionary? also, the importance ofx-mas in american history and culture 20 Dec 2006 09:14:30 PM
Rich Corinthian Leather wrote:

Alan Hope wrote:

Richard Smol goes:

kingskd2002@yahoo.com wrote:



There will be a day when running away from God by saying you are an
atheist will not work. All will look upon Him! All will bow! I am not
saying this because I think myself to be superior, I too will bow. The
only difference between you and I is that I choose to bow now.



Why would an almighty being want anything to bow before him? Sounds
like a massive ego problem to me. Anybody *demanding* to have others
bow in front of him is not worthy of any worship.



It's not "Him" demanding it of "you".
He created you for that very purpose. A whole Universe just to sustain
you, just so you can praise Him in all eternity.
If not, you burn forever in Hell.
It's what God calls free will.

But which version of "god" are we to believe? Is it god 1.0, aka
Yahweh/Elohim, who told his followers to totally destroy their enemies
or is it god 2.0 who tells his believers to love one another except if
you (plural) have disagreements?

God is the world's first flip-flopper: he couldn't get elected to
national office these days.
dmh
.


User: "Carl Nisarel"

Title: Re: is 'happy holidays' also exclusionary? also, the importance of x-mas in american history and culture 20 Dec 2006 06:38:44 AM
Hwæt! Alan Hope <not.alan.hope@mail.com>, men ne cunnon secgan to
soðe:

He created you for that very purpose. A whole Universe just to
sustain you, just so you can praise Him in all eternity.

So you think god created humans just so he could have a cheering
section of his own.
Sounds like your god is a rather insecure entity.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.


User: "John W. Kennedy"

Title: Re: is 'happy holidays' also exclusionary? also, the importance ofx-mas in american history and culture 19 Dec 2006 05:43:30 PM
Richard Smol wrote:

kingskd2002@yahoo.com wrote:

There will be a day when running away from God by saying you are an
atheist will not work. All will look upon Him! All will bow! I am not
saying this because I think myself to be superior, I too will bow. The
only difference between you and I is that I choose to bow now.


Why would an almighty being want anything to bow before him?

Since you ask, it's not a question of God wanting you to bow; it's a
question of bowing being the psychologically sound response to the being
to whom you owe literally /everything/.
That said, I grant that "kingskd2002" couldn't frame a logical argument
if his life depended on it.
--
John W. Kennedy
"The blind rulers of Logres
Nourished the land on a fallacy of rational virtue."
-- Charles Williams. "Taliessin through Logres: Prelude"
.
User: "Robibnikoff"

Title: Re: is 'happy holidays' also exclusionary? also, the importance of x-mas in american history and culture 20 Dec 2006 08:52:58 AM
"John W. Kennedy" <jwkenne@attglobal.net> wrote in message
news:JO_hh.850$4R1.20@newsfe12.lga...

Richard Smol wrote:

kingskd2002@yahoo.com wrote:

There will be a day when running away from God by saying you are an
atheist will not work. All will look upon Him! All will bow! I am not
saying this because I think myself to be superior, I too will bow. The
only difference between you and I is that I choose to bow now.


Why would an almighty being want anything to bow before him?


Since you ask, it's not a question of God wanting you to bow;

What god?
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
I think religion is so popular because even the village idiot can feel like
Einstein without any effort. - Denis Loubet
.

User: "Kater Moggin"

Title: Re: is 'happy holidays' also exclusionary? also, the importance of x-mas in american history and culture 19 Dec 2006 08:44:47 PM
John W. Kennedy <jwkenne@attglobal.net>:

Richard Smol wrote:

Why would an almighty being want anything to bow before him?


Since you ask, it's not a question of God wanting you to bow; it's a
question of bowing being the psychologically sound response to the being
to whom you owe literally /everything/.

Then if he's given you cancer (just for example), it would
be fitting to spit in his face.
-- Moggin
.
User: "Dale Houstman"

Title: Re: is 'happy holidays' also exclusionary? also, the importance ofx-mas in american history and culture