| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Charles & Mambo" |
| Date: |
13 Dec 2004 02:01:47 AM |
| Object: |
Re: Is there a God? |
wrote:
Can someone give me a few facts proving that there is not a god, or
give me some good reasons to believe so?
Can someone give me a few facts proving that there is a god, or give me some
good reasons to believe so?
I'm having a little trouble accepting theories of Atheism.
Here are a few things that hinder me:
I'm having a little trouble accepting theories of theism.
Here are a few things that hinder me:
1: Why didn't/doesn't life evolve on the moon? or Mars?
1: Why didn't/doesn't God create life on the moon? or Mars?
2: Why does fruit grow? (Oranges don't have good survival tactics, and
really had no reason to evolve).
2: Why does God make fruit grow? (Oranges don't have good survival tactics,
and really had no reason to be created).
3: How did matter form? What did it form from?
3: How did God form? What did he form from?
4: From where did life come? Abiogenesis has neither been observed or
replicated in any true form, even though dead things now have bands of
scientists and a friendly environment to help them along.
4: From where did life come? Biblical creation has neither been observed or
replicated in any true form, even though dead things now have bands of
priests and a friendly environment to help them along.
5: All of the missing links died without a trace. Unbelievable,
literally.
5: All of the missing gods vanished without a trace. Unbelievable, literally.
Atheism does not answer the questions that i have regarding the purpose
of life and the things in it.
Atheism isn't supposed to answer those questions, so when you start from a
false premise, it is a small wonder you turn out confused.
Otoh, pulling answers out of the asses of the long extinct ancient primitive
tribes hardly counts as plausible indication of the "purpose of life" and
"the things in it".
Then the question remains: which ancient myth do we accept as true and why?
Because everyone else around us does? Get real. Why Jesus and not Rah? Why
Allah and not Pele? Why Zeus and not Odin?
And all this ***** just so that priests can have a steady supply of young *****
to plug and so that they don't have to do any actual labor for living?
--
Come down off the cross
We can use the wood
Tom Waits, Come On Up To The House
.
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| User: "bob young" |
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| Title: Re: Is there a God? |
13 Dec 2004 04:52:38 AM |
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Charles & Mambo wrote:
smoley2@earthlink.net wrote:
Can someone give me a few facts proving that there is not a god, or
give me some good reasons to believe so?
Can someone give me a few facts proving that there is a god, or give me some
good reasons to believe so?
I'm having a little trouble accepting theories of Atheism.
Here are a few things that hinder me:
I'm having a little trouble accepting theories of theism.
Here are a few things that hinder me:
1: Why didn't/doesn't life evolve on the moon? or Mars?
1: Why didn't/doesn't God create life on the moon? or Mars?
2: Why does fruit grow? (Oranges don't have good survival tactics, and
really had no reason to evolve).
2: Why does God make fruit grow? (Oranges don't have good survival tactics,
and really had no reason to be created).
3: How did matter form? What did it form from?
3: How did God form? What did he form from?
4: From where did life come? Abiogenesis has neither been observed or
replicated in any true form, even though dead things now have bands of
scientists and a friendly environment to help them along.
4: From where did life come? Biblical creation has neither been observed or
replicated in any true form, even though dead things now have bands of
priests and a friendly environment to help them along.
5: All of the missing links died without a trace. Unbelievable,
literally.
5: All of the missing gods vanished without a trace. Unbelievable, literally.
Atheism does not answer the questions that i have regarding the purpose
of life and the things in it.
My dog does not ask such questions. The problem is we humans have freak brains
when compared to the animals so we ask these strange questions.
Take your life as it is, it is the only one you have.
Live it to the full, make friends with all decent folk that will have you and
lend a helping hand whenever you can. I doubt there is more to it than that.
Oh............ and steer away from superstition.
Bob
Humanist Brit
Hong Kong
Atheism isn't supposed to answer those questions, so when you start from a
false premise, it is a small wonder you turn out confused.
Otoh, pulling answers out of the asses of the long extinct ancient primitive
tribes hardly counts as plausible indication of the "purpose of life" and
"the things in it".
Then the question remains: which ancient myth do we accept as true and why?
Because everyone else around us does? Get real. Why Jesus and not Rah? Why
Allah and not Pele? Why Zeus and not Odin?
And all this ***** just so that priests can have a steady supply of young *****
to plug and so that they don't have to do any actual labor for living?
--
Come down off the cross
We can use the wood
Tom Waits, Come On Up To The House
.
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
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| Title: Re: Is there a God? |
13 Dec 2004 07:52:19 AM |
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On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 08:01:47 GMT, Charles & Mambo <Duckman@gfy.self>
wrote:
smoley2@earthlink.net wrote:
Can someone give me a few facts proving that there is not a god, or
give me some good reasons to believe so?
Can someone give me a few facts proving that there is a god, or give me some
good reasons to believe so?
Sorry, beats me regarding facts but belief is no problem. Just believe
and you are there. Belief requires no reason just suspension of
disbelief in the same way I suspended disbelief when I watched Return
of the King yesterday (Extended Ed) . I believed that the one ring had
to be destroyed and I believed there was a wizard to save Middle
Earth, I believed there was a Middle Earth and a massive battle. When
the film ended I came back into the real world. When I saw the
documentaries and found most of it was blue screen and clever trickery
I realised I had been deceived and lied to by Peter Jackson. (Great
job Peter, best film ever made by far)
Les Hellawell
greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
.
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| User: "Dubh Ghall" |
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| Title: Re: Is there a God? |
13 Dec 2004 01:44:54 PM |
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On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 13:52:19 +0000, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 08:01:47 GMT, Charles & Mambo <Duckman@gfy.self>
wrote:
smoley2@earthlink.net wrote:
Can someone give me a few facts proving that there is not a god, or
give me some good reasons to believe so?
Can someone give me a few facts proving that there is a god, or give me some
good reasons to believe so?
Sorry, beats me regarding facts but belief is no problem. Just believe
and you are there.
Doesn't he have to click his heels, and think of Kansas, or something?
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Is there a God? |
14 Dec 2004 05:53:31 AM |
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On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 08:01:47 GMT, Charles & Mambo <Duckman@gfy.self> wrote:
smoley2@earthlink.net wrote:
Can someone give me a few facts proving that there is not a god, or
give me some good reasons to believe so?
*****
Evidence of God (Rev1)- duke32, circa 2002AD
1. The belief that a supreme being is the creator of the universe is
based on a profession by those that believe that is equal to, but no
less than, any profession that our universe exists for any other
alternative reason that can be imagined.
One could hypothesize an astronomical event such as a prior universe
that collapsed in on itself and has now exploded outward to form our new
present universe. If this did happen, it would have happened again
and again for the same reason as the latest occurrence, thereby
suggesting that the universe always was, is, and always will be. Yet
another equal suggestion is that the universe was birthed out of
another universe, or another dimension.
The human mind cannot cope with the idea that all things lack a
beginning, and clearly neither matter nor energy on their own, the
basic building blocks of the universe, could either exist in and of
itself, or in and of its own intelligence.
The profession by believers is that our universe is a creation of
almighty God who is truly acknowledged as "always was, is, and always
will be". No alternative is available.
2. The big bang - first there was nothing - no time, no mass, no energy, no "outer space"
- then an infinitely small point of infinitely dense mass appeared which was not there
before, and then it exploded outward to form our universe, including "time" and all "outer
space" as we know it.
The universe is expanding, but into what? Is there an edge to the universe, and if there
is, what is it expanding into?
3. Medical science itself professes the human body to reflect a
"design with purpose". It consists of a central computer (brain)
supported by a fluid transfer system (blood) forced along by a pump
(heart), an energy conversion system (stomach and intestines), a waste
disposal system, an oxygen transfer system (lungs) that is required to
transfer necessary oxygen to the brain and to the body parts,
maintenance organs (spleen, gall bladder, etc), and a body salinity
(same as ocean water) exactly correct as necessary for transfer of
minute electrical signals to/from the brain to operate and control the
body.
4. The conception equation contained in animal forms is divided 50%
in the male and 50% in the female. We only mix the chemicals. Of special interest is the
fact that the male and female organs are of complimentary shape in mammals. These two
facts are especially conducive to support planned design.
5. ARC101: In the overall scheme of advancement in relationships of
life forms as we move from the least to the greatest:
The rock (inanimate object) does not respond to, or relate to, the
plant's existence because it fully lacks the faculties to do so. Nor
does the plant acknowledge, in any fashion, it's awareness of the
inanimate object.
One level upward, the plant (simple life) does not respond to, or
relate to, the cow's existence because it lacks the faculties to do
so. However, the cow does have a limited reverse recognition of the
plant because it is a noted food source for the cow, but the plant
does not relate in any way to the cow, what it is, or why it is.
One level up, the cow (complex life form) does not respond to, or
relate to, the human's existence, other than in very rudimentary ways,
because it lacks the faculties to do so. Man, on the other hand, has
a full range of knowledge and a clear relationship directed backward
to the cow including leading the cow by the nose, but the cow has
minimal upward reaction to the man other than the cow sees the man,
but has no idea what the man is or what the man does or why the man is
there.
Notice how one level can relate backwards to a lower level, but in the
opposite higher level only in a very rudimentary fashion. Yet each
higher level not only exists but exists "basically unknown" to the
level below it.
What, then, regarding the existence of a level higher than the human?
As is seen at each level, the inability, or limited ability, to relate
to the level above it does not in any way negate its very existence.
We knowingly lack sufficient faculties to respond to, or relate to, a
higher level above man. Does this negate the existence of such a
level? Why should we be able to relate upwards when lower life can't.
By all logic, there should be at least one level above human.
As humans (mankind), we possess tremendous advanced faculties over
those of the cow - intelligence, reason, logic, love, empathy,
sympathy, knowing we suffer and why, etc. And we can use these
faculties to study, learn, reason, dream, and subjectively conclude
that, logically speaking, some level should exist higher than man.
As before, we too are limited in our ability to relate to that higher
level, but in no way does this negate its existence.
If there is no greater known than man, then man would be the pinnacle
of life, the top - evidenced by the mess we make of the world - war,
disease, pestilence, hatred, man's inhumanity to man, etc.
Man as the ultimate, the pinnacle, the top, is illogical.
How many levels are there above us? We don't know - we can't even
prove so much as one level. The top level, by all logic, must be
*perfection*. Is it reasonable to think the move from man to the top
is made in one step? That is not very imaginative.
So let's think in term of two steps - one greater than man and one
lesser than a supreme being. Strangely enough, the "angel" fits the
position exactly, more than man but less than perfection.
Can we prove it - of course not. But we can use our advanced
capacities to dream, to aspire, to reach out for that possible next
step, from which we can profess to truly be the creation of one more
perfect than us.
*****
duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
.
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| User: "BudikkaMAPS" |
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| Title: Re: Is there a God? |
19 Dec 2004 11:59:54 AM |
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duke wrote:
On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 08:01:47 GMT, Charles & Mambo <Duckman@gfy.self>
Evidence of God (Rev1)- duke32, circa 2002AD
Are you still telling these lies, you colossal ***** up? After I
whipped your ***** and you admitted on Jun 12, 9:52 am in thread "The
Inquisition" (http://tinyurl.com/62fat) that these are nothing more
than your own blind beliefs, and not evidence at all, you have the
monumental hypocrisy to tote them out again and imagine I wouldn't find
out and ***** slap you silly all over again?
I shot you down here: http://tinyurl.com/5dxcx ("Jesus sacrifice is
hardly a sacrifice") - From which you ran away!
I shot you down here: http://tinyurl.com/6gfvq ("The Inquisition") -
From which you ran away!
I shot you down here: http://tinyurl.com/4d643 ("Why did Mekkla run
away from a discussion of Heb 8:7-13?") - From which you ran away!
I shot you down here: http://tinyurl.com/5svuw ("Human aspect of
Jesus") - From which you ran away!
I shot you down here: http://tinyurl.com/4gceg ("Another Problem for
Creation IDiots") - From which you ran away!
But just to ram it home, let me gob-smack you one mroe time, Puke:
1. The belief that a supreme being is the creator of the universe is
based on a profession by those that believe that is equal to, but no
less than, any profession that our universe exists for any other
alternative reason that can be imagined.
This is a lie from the off, since it assumes the predicate in the
premise! The thing you are trying to establish is the existence of a
god. You cannot do that by assuming a god exists. You need to supply
evidence, and as usual, you wussed out. Even if what you said was
true, the one cancels out the other and your #1 evidence becomes number
two.
2. The big bang - first there was nothing - no time, no mass, no
energy, no "outer space"
- then an infinitely small point of infinitely dense mass appeared
which was not there
before, and then it exploded outward to form our universe, including
"time" and all "outer
space" as we know it.
This is not evidence, it's a high-school level question which
establishes nothing. The universe is here whether there is a god or
not. Merely describing the so-called Big Bang does nothing to
establish the existence of any god.
3. Medical science itself professes the human body to reflect a
"design with purpose".
No it doesn't. There is no evidence for design, and you provide none
in your blind assertion. Merely describing some physiology does
nothing to establish the existence of any god.
4. The conception equation contained in animal forms is divided 50%
in the male and 50% in the female.
Lie! The majority of orgnaisms on earth reprodice asexually. Many
organisms are hermaphrodite or have only one sex. You lousy *****
is exposed. Merely describing reproduction does nothing to establish
the existence of any god.
5. ARC101: In the overall scheme of advancement in relationships of
life forms as we move from the least to the greatest:
Your argument contains grade school "logic", and fails. Even if it
were valid, it is equally "valid" whether there is a god or whether
there isn't, so the one would cancel out the other and your entire
argument is gone.
Budikka "I shot down and shut down Duke"
.
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