| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"GODs CREATOR!" |
| Date: |
06 Dec 2005 07:32:52 PM |
| Object: |
Re: IS THERE A REAL GOD??? |
TomP wrote:
Actually, I am genuinely interested in atheist views on sources of morality.
Religion is a potent cultural force that seems to have been deeply embedded
in human culture since the very beginning. As such, the absence of religion
as a cultural phenomena would leave a cultural vacuum, so I am curious as to
what would fill that vacuum.
................
......... SNIPPED FOR CLARITY ......
.........
And if religion cannot sufficiently control the murderous impulses of its
adherents, does it have any useful role in any culture?
Assuming the first duty and reason for existence of every government is to
protect the lives of its citizens, the state that murders in the name of
religion has no moral or legitimate right to exist. This is hard stuff.
At least for me it is.
*Thus spake God's Creator*
The worlds of history books or the socialists nations
i.e. Russia, Vietnam or China would provide the answer
to the effects on morality that religions have.
Each has low crime and no need for foreign outside aid,
to care for it people.
ALL nations have at one time suffered the evil destructive
influence of the greed and selfishness of religiously justified
Holy wars. (The U.S. is now involved in a ZIONISM Vs. ISLAMISM*
war that is centuries old (Thanks to the current Administration).
A war that can never ever end, because the opponents cannot
co-exist together due to the dogma or doctrine of each religions
foundation.
Perhaps that is one of natures *Population Control* mechanism
~~ GOD'S CREATOR! ~~
That was my only sin!
:-(
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wise men study unknown and mysterious things, to enhance their wisdom.
While stupid men shout, kneel down, close their eyes and mumble...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WHY ?
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner/
http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html
.
|
|
| User: "TomP" |
|
| Title: Re: IS THERE A REAL GOD??? |
07 Dec 2005 10:47:08 AM |
|
|
"GOD's CREATOR!" <Really_God@Go.Com> wrote in message
news:8Zqlf.277$n1.247@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
TomP wrote:
Actually, I am genuinely interested in atheist views on sources of
morality.
Religion is a potent cultural force that seems to have been deeply
embedded
in human culture since the very beginning. As such, the absence of
religion
as a cultural phenomena would leave a cultural vacuum, so I am curious
as to
what would fill that vacuum.
...............
........ SNIPPED FOR CLARITY ......
........
And if religion cannot sufficiently control the murderous impulses of
its
adherents, does it have any useful role in any culture?
Assuming the first duty and reason for existence of every government is
to
protect the lives of its citizens, the state that murders in the name of
religion has no moral or legitimate right to exist. This is hard
stuff.
At least for me it is.
*Thus spake God's Creator*
The worlds of history books or the socialists nations
i.e. Russia, Vietnam or China would provide the answer
to the effects on morality that religions have.
Each has low crime and no need for foreign outside aid,
to care for it people.
ALL nations have at one time suffered the evil destructive
influence of the greed and selfishness of religiously justified
Holy wars. (The U.S. is now involved in a ZIONISM Vs. ISLAMISM*
war that is centuries old (Thanks to the current Administration).
A war that can never ever end, because the opponents cannot
co-exist together due to the dogma or doctrine of each religions
foundation.
Perhaps that is one of natures *Population Control* mechanism
Oh my! What a fertile imagination you have! What was your point again?
~~ GOD'S CREATOR! ~~
That was my only sin!
:-(
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~
Wise men study unknown and mysterious things, to enhance their wisdom.
While stupid men shout, kneel down, close their eyes and mumble...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~
WHY ?
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner/
http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html
.
|
|
|
| User: "GODs CREATOR!" |
|
| Title: Re: IS THERE A REAL GOD??? |
07 Dec 2005 02:01:28 PM |
|
|
TomP wrote:
Oh my! What a fertile imagination you have! What was your point again?
*Thus spake God's Creator*
It's always very frustrating to me to have to spell-out
the basic thought patterns found in logical reasoning.
BUT,
There seems to be _only_ (3) things that all Philosophies
Religions, Cultures morals, or General Agreement of reality
seek to determine...
(1) Where did I come from ?
(2) Now, what am I supposed to do ?
(3) What happens to me when I am no more ?
Everyone has tried to find those answers.
Many, many liars, madmen and profiteers have
convinced people that they know those answers.
Many, people want to _believe_ that (finally at last) they know.
That is why religions are called *Opiates for the Masses*
If there was a thing such as the concept "GOD", you would
sure as hell know about it :-)
The original religion was the caveman's... Club!
~~ GOD'S CREATOR! ~~
That was my only sin!
:-(
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wise men study unknown and mysterious things, to enhance their wisdom.
While stupid men shout, kneel down, close their eyes and mumble...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WHY ?
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner/
http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html
.
|
|
|
| User: "TomP" |
|
| Title: Re: IS THERE A REAL GOD??? |
08 Dec 2005 12:10:52 PM |
|
|
"GOD's CREATOR!" <Really_God@Go.Com> wrote in message
news:scHlf.549$Tg2.131@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
TomP wrote:
Oh my! What a fertile imagination you have! What was your point again?
*Thus spake God's Creator*
It's always very frustrating to me to have to spell-out
the basic thought patterns found in logical reasoning.
Well, into each life does frustration come. Live with it. Or not. Your
choice.
BUT,
There seems to be _only_ (3) things that all Philosophies
Religions, Cultures morals, or General Agreement of reality
seek to determine...
What in the world are you talking about? "Seems"? You aren't very sure of
your position.
(1) Where did I come from ?
(2) Now, what am I supposed to do ?
(3) What happens to me when I am no more ?
Did Plato and Xeno and Cicero and Seneca and Marcus Aurelius and Maimonides
and Hobbes and Locke and Rousseau and Voltaire and Franklin and Russell all
ask those questions? Are you sure? Please, cite the lines from each.
You see, I don't think you can cite those philosophers I named above. I
think you are just winging it and making things up as you go along. But I
am certainly willing to entertain any quotations you can produce. But I bet
you can't.
Everyone has tried to find those answers.
Many, many liars, madmen and profiteers have
convinced people that they know those answers.
Many, people want to _believe_ that (finally at last) they know.
That is why religions are called *Opiates for the Masses*
Are you a Marxist? Or a socialist? A communist? Or are you inadvertently
quoting Karl Marx because you don't know any better?
If there was a thing such as the concept "GOD", you would
sure as hell know about it :-)
Obviously there is such a concept as "'GOD'," actually many such concepts.
Do you deny that? Or a you merely confusing a concept of God with the
reality of God? The difference really is not very subtle.
The original religion was the caveman's... Club!
Your assertion is not provable.
~~ GOD'S CREATOR! ~~
That was my only sin!
:-(
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~
Wise men study unknown and mysterious things, to enhance their wisdom.
While stupid men shout, kneel down, close their eyes and mumble...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~
WHY ?
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner/
http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html
.
|
|
|
| User: "Saul_Sabia" |
|
| Title: Re: IS THERE A REAL GOD??? |
10 Dec 2005 10:45:28 AM |
|
|
Oh my! What a fertile imagination you have! What was your point again?
point? god's creator? ha ha ha...
*Thus spake God's Creator*
It's always very frustrating to me to have to spell-out
the basic thought patterns found in logical reasoning.
Well, into each life does frustration come. Live with it. Or not. Your
choice.
you see, the first problem is that there has to be basic thought
patterns and logical reasoning happening first. i have only
circumstantial
evidence for the first, and grave doubts about the second. =)
BUT,
There seems to be _only_ (3) things that all Philosophies
Religions, Cultures morals, or General Agreement of reality
seek to determine...
What in the world are you talking about? "Seems"? You aren't very sure of
your position.
(1) Where did I come from ?
(2) Now, what am I supposed to do ?
(3) What happens to me when I am no more ?
i feel that only citing three things is an over-generalization to the
point
of near meaninglessness, an issue that i find characterizes god's
creator (aka james?) posts consistently. still, i do have hopes....
putting philosophies and religions in one boat is the first problem.
putting "cultures' morals" in the same boat is vaguely silly, and
whatever a "general agreement of reality" is, i haven't heard of it.
i can see what gc is trying to say, but i'll get to that in a second.
Did Plato and Xeno and Cicero and Seneca and Marcus Aurelius
and Maimonides and Hobbes and Locke and Rousseau and Voltaire
and Franklin and Russell all ask those questions? Are you sure?
Please, cite the lines from each.
hmm. looks like i'll have to hit the books, i've never heard of
Maimonides
or Franklin... or Seneca. oh, well, i'm not the one putting words into
their mouths. =)
You see, I don't think you can cite those philosophers I named above. I
think you are just winging it and making things up as you go along. But I
am certainly willing to entertain any quotations you can produce. But I bet
you can't.
*the doo dee doo do theme from jeopardy will be on continual repeat for
a very long time*
Everyone has tried to find those answers.
Many, many liars, madmen and profiteers have
convinced people that they know those answers.
Many, people want to _believe_ that (finally at last) they know.
That is why religions are called *Opiates for the Masses*
Are you a Marxist? Or a socialist? A communist? Or are you inadvertently
quoting Karl Marx because you don't know any better?
i'm going with door number four on this one.
If there was a thing such as the concept "GOD", you would
sure as hell know about it :-)
Obviously there is such a concept as "'GOD'," actually many such concepts.
Do you deny that? Or a you merely confusing a concept of God with the
reality of God? The difference really is not very subtle.
The original religion was the caveman's... Club!
Your assertion is not provable.
i disagree (with the assertion, that is). the first religion was fear -
fear
of the night, fear of the wild animals, fear of the elements, fear of
disease, fear of solitude, and an immediate fear of death.
i see physical force as more of a philosophy, and not something
that can truly allay what i consider to be the most primal fear that
we, as humans, have - that of death. to combat it, you must clothe
yourself in the garments of ritual, take firm grasp of the obedience
fetish, and give words power, power to stop even death itself. in
time, the rituals became more elaborate and changed according
to our environments. to maintain order, the lines of authority were
drawn more precisely. the words became music, or chants, or
liturgies, or prayers.
JMHO, of course. i can't really prove any of it.
Saul
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "bob young" |
|
| Title: Re: IS THERE A REAL GOD??? |
07 Dec 2005 12:07:02 AM |
|
|
"GOD's CREATOR!" wrote:
TomP wrote:
Actually, I am genuinely interested in atheist views on sources of morality.
Religion is a potent cultural force that seems to have been deeply embedded
in human culture since the very beginning. As such, the absence of religion
as a cultural phenomena would leave a cultural vacuum, so I am curious as to
what would fill that vacuum.
...............
........ SNIPPED FOR CLARITY ......
........
And if religion cannot sufficiently control the murderous impulses of its
adherents, does it have any useful role in any culture?
Assuming the first duty and reason for existence of every government is to
protect the lives of its citizens, the state that murders in the name of
religion has no moral or legitimate right to exist. This is hard stuff.
At least for me it is.
*Thus spake God's Creator*
The worlds of history books or the socialists nations
i.e. Russia, Vietnam or China would provide the answer
to the effects on morality that religions have.
Each has low crime and no need for foreign outside aid,
to care for it people.
ALL nations have at one time suffered the evil destructive
influence of the greed and selfishness of religiously justified
Holy wars. (The U.S. is now involved in a ZIONISM Vs. ISLAMISM*
war that is centuries old (Thanks to the current Administration).
A war that can never ever end, because the opponents cannot
co-exist together due to the dogma or doctrine of each religions
foundation.
Perhaps that is one of natures *Population Control* mechanism
~~ GOD'S CREATOR! ~~
That was my only sin!
:-(
nice to see someone has his or her head screwed on right.
the nail has above been firmly 'hit right on the head'
Bob
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wise men study unknown and mysterious things, to enhance their wisdom.
While stupid men shout, kneel down, close their eyes and mumble...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WHY ?
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner/
http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "TKR101010" |
|
| Title: Re: IS THERE A REAL GOD??? |
06 Dec 2005 08:46:09 PM |
|
|
Greetings
GOD's CREATOR! wrote:
<SNIP>
ALL nations have at one time suffered the evil destructive
influence of the greed and selfishness of religiously justified
Holy wars. (The U.S. is now involved in a ZIONISM Vs. ISLAMISM*
war that is centuries old (Thanks to the current Administration).
A war that can never ever end, because the opponents cannot
co-exist together due to the dogma or doctrine of each religions
foundation.
Perhaps that is one of natures *Population Control* mechanism
~~ GOD'S CREATOR! ~~
That was my only sin!
:-(
<SNIP>
Even if we were all atheists, or even of a single global faith, humans
are too diverse and picky about other things for war to end. Even if you
take religion out of the picture, there's still the underlying greed and
selfishness. Humans have always killed humans, and will always kill
humans for as long as our species exists. The best one can hope for are
isolated pockets of peace. It's in our nature. Laws, secular or
spiritual, are the method that we as a species use, or should use
anyway, to raise above that part of ourselves.
L8R,
Phoenix
.
|
|
|
| User: "bob young" |
|
| Title: Re: IS THERE A REAL GOD??? |
07 Dec 2005 12:09:02 AM |
|
|
TKR101010 wrote:
Greetings
GOD's CREATOR! wrote:
<SNIP>
ALL nations have at one time suffered the evil destructive
influence of the greed and selfishness of religiously justified
Holy wars. (The U.S. is now involved in a ZIONISM Vs. ISLAMISM*
war that is centuries old (Thanks to the current Administration).
A war that can never ever end, because the opponents cannot
co-exist together due to the dogma or doctrine of each religions
foundation.
Perhaps that is one of natures *Population Control* mechanism
~~ GOD'S CREATOR! ~~
That was my only sin!
:-(
<SNIP>
Even if we were all atheists, or even of a single global faith, humans
are too diverse and picky about other things for war to end. Even if you
take religion out of the picture, there's still the underlying greed and
selfishness. Humans have always killed humans, and will always kill
humans for as long as our species exists. The best one can hope for are
isolated pockets of peace. It's in our nature. Laws, secular or
spiritual, are the method that we as a species use, or should use
anyway, to raise above that part of ourselves.
L8R,
Phoenix
Agreed. They would simply form 'sects' within any universal religon.
Man will only stop killing when the nuclear device has the capability of
reaching and exterminating every head of state on this planet.
Then they might, just might, think twice.
Bob
.
|
|
|
| User: "TKR101010" |
|
| Title: Re: IS THERE A REAL GOD??? |
07 Dec 2005 08:14:34 PM |
|
|
Greetings
bob young wrote:
<SNIP>
Agreed. They would simply form 'sects' within any universal religon.
Man will only stop killing when the nuclear device has the capability of
reaching and exterminating every head of state on this planet.
Then they might, just might, think twice.
Bob
<SNIP>
I'm not sure if that would work, since it's in all our nature at some
level, and will be in our children's.
What we need is an external threat so that people have to work together.
Maybe if aliens attacked people could finally get along 'cause they'd
all have a more active common interest in saving the species.
L8R,
Phoenix
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
