| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"stoney" |
| Date: |
30 Jul 2004 04:42:39 PM |
| Object: |
Re: It's OK if you don't believe in GOD but............ |
From: "stoney" <stoney@localhost.localdomain>
Organization: mirth
Subject: Re: It's OK if you don't believe in GOD but............
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 12:40:22 -0700
User-Agent: Pan/0.13.3 (That cat's something I can't explain)
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References: <45ednbv5C5_nVWLd4p2dnA@io.com>
<13473-40FFCB65-46@storefull-3278.bay.webtv.net>
X-Pan-Internal-Attribution: On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 10:12:53 -0400, Swiss Army
wrote:
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On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 10:12:53 -0400, Swiss Army wrote:
Look at the lusher Atheist accusing others of assumptions while
assuming that the poster is a believer in GOD.
Zealots flew planes into
buildings, an Atheist can be a Zealot as well.
Yes, theism is destructive whether it be Islam, or Christianity.
Oh my, please enlighten me as to how an atheist (no capital letter unless
it is the first word in a sentence) can be a zealot (no capital z as it
isn't the first word in the sentence). Note: Any response is sure to be
*very* entertaining! :D
I usually wouldn't waste time trying to inform a fool but you caught
me on a good day.
{MMMMMMMMMMMIIIIIIIIIIIRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRTTTTTTTTTTTTTTHHHHHHHHHHH}
God both does and does not exist. God/not-God is beyond human
understanding.
It dosen't matter what you believe because the truth is the truth. Your
belief does change your immediate reality but not the big picture.
Atheists here appear to be hostile, aggressive, frustrated and
self-righteous, certainly this is not the hallmark of Truth.
Hearty applause to you for so aptly demonstrating you're not only a fool,
but a drooling idiot. I'm going to nominate your response for TQOTM under
the idiocy catagory. Rejoyce as you are commanded, slave!
.
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| User: "Liberator Veritatis" |
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| Title: Re: It's OK if you don't believe in GOD but............ |
30 Jul 2004 09:44:34 PM |
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On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 14:42:39 -0700, stoney
<stoney@localhost.localdomain> wrote:
From: "stoney" <stoney@localhost.localdomain>
Organization: mirth
Subject: Re: It's OK if you don't believe in GOD but............
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 12:40:22 -0700
User-Agent: Pan/0.13.3 (That cat's something I can't explain)
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Newsgroups:
alt.slack,alt.atheism,alt.religion.scientology,alt.religion.wicca,alt.consp
iracy
References: <45ednbv5C5_nVWLd4p2dnA@io.com>
<13473-40FFCB65-46@storefull-3278.bay.webtv.net>
X-Pan-Internal-Attribution: On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 10:12:53 -0400, Swiss Army
wrote:
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On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 10:12:53 -0400, Swiss Army wrote:
Look at the lusher Atheist accusing others of assumptions while
assuming that the poster is a believer in GOD.
Zealots flew planes into
buildings, an Atheist can be a Zealot as well.
Yes, theism is destructive whether it be Islam, or Christianity.
Oh my, please enlighten me as to how an atheist (no capital letter unless
it is the first word in a sentence) can be a zealot (no capital z as it
isn't the first word in the sentence). Note: Any response is sure to be
*very* entertaining! :D
You ARE an atheist zealot...
I usually wouldn't waste time trying to inform a fool but you caught
me on a good day.
{MMMMMMMMMMMIIIIIIIIIIIRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRTTTTTTTTTTTTTTHHHHHHHHHHH}
God both does and does not exist. God/not-God is beyond human
understanding.
It dosen't matter what you believe because the truth is the truth. Your
belief does change your immediate reality but not the big picture.
Atheists here appear to be hostile, aggressive, frustrated and
self-righteous, certainly this is not the hallmark of Truth.
Hearty applause to you for so aptly demonstrating you're not only a fool,
but a drooling idiot. I'm going to nominate your response for TQOTM under
the idiocy catagory. Rejoyce as you are commanded, slave!
.... apparently one who thinks that being hostile and self-righteous IS
the hallmark of truth. While it may not be the hallmark of truth this
belligerent post certainly is the hallmark of a zealot.
--
Liberator Veritatis
.
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| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: It's OK if you don't believe in GOD but............ |
31 Jul 2004 09:48:59 PM |
|
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On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 02:44:34 +0000, Liberator Veritatis wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 14:42:39 -0700, stoney
<stoney@localhost.localdomain> wrote:
From: "stoney" <stoney@localhost.localdomain>
Organization: mirth
Subject: Re: It's OK if you don't believe in GOD but............
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 12:40:22 -0700
User-Agent: Pan/0.13.3 (That cat's something I can't explain)
Message-Id: <pan.2004.07.22.19.40.22.686417@localhost.localdomain>
Newsgroups:
alt.slack,alt.atheism,alt.religion.scientology,alt.religion.wicca,alt.consp
iracy
References: <45ednbv5C5_nVWLd4p2dnA@io.com>
<13473-40FFCB65-46@storefull-3278.bay.webtv.net>
X-Pan-Internal-Attribution: On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 10:12:53 -0400, Swiss Army
wrote:
X-Pan-Internal-Sendlater-Newsgroups:
alt.slack,alt.atheism,alt.religion.scientology,alt.religion.wicca,alt.consp
iracy
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On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 10:12:53 -0400, Swiss Army wrote:
Look at the lusher Atheist accusing others of assumptions while
assuming that the poster is a believer in GOD.
Zealots flew planes into
buildings, an Atheist can be a Zealot as well.
Yes, theism is destructive whether it be Islam, or Christianity.
Oh my, please enlighten me as to how an atheist (no capital letter unless
it is the first word in a sentence) can be a zealot (no capital z as it
isn't the first word in the sentence). Note: Any response is sure to be
*very* entertaining! :D
You ARE an atheist zealot...
Laughing AT you.
I usually wouldn't waste time trying to inform a fool but you caught
me on a good day.
{MMMMMMMMMMMIIIIIIIIIIIRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRTTTTTTTTTTTTTTHHHHHHHHHHH}
God both does and does not exist. God/not-God is beyond human
understanding.
It dosen't matter what you believe because the truth is the truth. Your
belief does change your immediate reality but not the big picture.
Atheists here appear to be hostile, aggressive, frustrated and
self-righteous, certainly this is not the hallmark of Truth.
Hearty applause to you for so aptly demonstrating you're not only a fool,
but a drooling idiot. I'm going to nominate your response for TQOTM under
the idiocy catagory. Rejoyce as you are commanded, slave!
... apparently one who thinks that being hostile and self-righteous IS
the hallmark of truth. While it may not be the hallmark of truth this
belligerent post certainly is the hallmark of a zealot.
Laughing AT you. Gee, mirroring contempt and discourtesy back to a
belligerant troll is, according to you, the mark of a 'zealot.'
Pointing out the sheer stupidity and rank idiocy of a drooling
morons flatulent and rampant stupidity is the mark of a 'zealot'
according to you.
Gotta love your hypocracy. It's just fine if a theist troll shows
contempt to others but it isn't if the attitude is mirrored back.
I wouldn't be surprised if you're a sock. Ta ta oh icon of hypocracy.
.
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|
| User: "Liberator Veritatis" |
|
| Title: Re: It's OK if you don't believe in GOD but............ |
01 Aug 2004 11:40:19 AM |
|
|
On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 19:48:59 -0700, stoney
<stoney@localhost.localdomain> wrote:
On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 02:44:34 +0000, Liberator Veritatis wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 14:42:39 -0700, stoney
<stoney@localhost.localdomain> wrote:
From: "stoney" <stoney@localhost.localdomain>
Organization: mirth
Subject: Re: It's OK if you don't believe in GOD but............
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 12:40:22 -0700
User-Agent: Pan/0.13.3 (That cat's something I can't explain)
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iracy
References: <45ednbv5C5_nVWLd4p2dnA@io.com>
<13473-40FFCB65-46@storefull-3278.bay.webtv.net>
X-Pan-Internal-Attribution: On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 10:12:53 -0400, Swiss Army
wrote:
X-Pan-Internal-Sendlater-Newsgroups:
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On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 10:12:53 -0400, Swiss Army wrote:
Look at the lusher Atheist accusing others of assumptions while
assuming that the poster is a believer in GOD.
Zealots flew planes into
buildings, an Atheist can be a Zealot as well.
Yes, theism is destructive whether it be Islam, or Christianity.
Oh my, please enlighten me as to how an atheist (no capital letter unless
it is the first word in a sentence) can be a zealot (no capital z as it
isn't the first word in the sentence). Note: Any response is sure to be
*very* entertaining! :D
You ARE an atheist zealot...
Laughing AT you.
U R 2 cool!
I usually wouldn't waste time trying to inform a fool but you caught
me on a good day.
{MMMMMMMMMMMIIIIIIIIIIIRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRTTTTTTTTTTTTTTHHHHHHHHHHH}
God both does and does not exist. God/not-God is beyond human
understanding.
It dosen't matter what you believe because the truth is the truth. Your
belief does change your immediate reality but not the big picture.
Atheists here appear to be hostile, aggressive, frustrated and
self-righteous, certainly this is not the hallmark of Truth.
Hearty applause to you for so aptly demonstrating you're not only a fool,
but a drooling idiot. I'm going to nominate your response for TQOTM under
the idiocy catagory. Rejoyce as you are commanded, slave!
... apparently one who thinks that being hostile and self-righteous IS
the hallmark of truth. While it may not be the hallmark of truth this
belligerent post certainly is the hallmark of a zealot.
Laughing AT you. Gee, mirroring contempt and discourtesy back to a
belligerant troll is, according to you, the mark of a 'zealot.'
Pointing out the sheer stupidity and rank idiocy of a drooling
morons flatulent and rampant stupidity is the mark of a 'zealot'
according to you.
If you ever direct this criticism at yourself you will go insane.
Gotta love your hypocracy. It's just fine if a theist troll shows
contempt to others but it isn't if the attitude is mirrored back.
I wouldn't be surprised if you're a sock. Ta ta oh icon of hypocracy.
I've seen you misspell this word so many times that it cannot be a
typo, so you must mean it. I know you think I am just a hack for the
"hypocrat" establishment, but in reality I'm just a regular poster. I
really don't know who these "hypocrats" are or what their political
agenda is. Nor, have I ever knowingly advanced their cause.
--
Liberator Veritatis
.
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| User: "Joe Cosby http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl" |
|
| Title: Re: It's OK if you don't believe in GOD but............ |
30 Jul 2004 05:05:56 PM |
|
|
On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 14:42:39 -0700, stoney
<stoney@localhost.localdomain> wrote:
Yes, theism is destructive whether it be Islam, or Christianity.
Oh my, please enlighten me as to how an atheist (no capital letter unless
it is the first word in a sentence) can be a zealot (no capital z as it
isn't the first word in the sentence). Note: Any response is sure to be
*very* entertaining! :D
Stalin. Mao. Etc.
--
Joe Cosby
http://joecosby.com/
My definition of a true subgenius is a salmon who realizes that all
the ***** is actually DOWN stream.
- ME
.
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|
| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
|
| Title: Re: It's OK if you don't believe in GOD but............ |
30 Jul 2004 05:25:06 PM |
|
|
On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 15:05:56 -0700, Joe Cosby
<http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl> wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 14:42:39 -0700, stoney
<stoney@localhost.localdomain> wrote:
Yes, theism is destructive whether it be Islam, or Christianity.
Oh my, please enlighten me as to how an atheist (no capital letter unless
it is the first word in a sentence) can be a zealot (no capital z as it
isn't the first word in the sentence). Note: Any response is sure to be
*very* entertaining! :D
Stalin. Mao. Etc.
So demonstrate that their atheism was a motivatoor in what they did.
.
|
|
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| User: "Joe Cosby http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl" |
|
| Title: Re: It's OK if you don't believe in GOD but............ |
30 Jul 2004 05:42:37 PM |
|
|
On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 22:25:06 GMT, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 15:05:56 -0700, Joe Cosby
<http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl> wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 14:42:39 -0700, stoney
<stoney@localhost.localdomain> wrote:
Yes, theism is destructive whether it be Islam, or Christianity.
Oh my, please enlighten me as to how an atheist (no capital letter unless
it is the first word in a sentence) can be a zealot (no capital z as it
isn't the first word in the sentence). Note: Any response is sure to be
*very* entertaining! :D
Stalin. Mao. Etc.
So demonstrate that their atheism was a motivatoor in what they did.
They replace theism with communism. Atheism is an integral part of
communism, why do you think they make religion illegal?
Obviously what they did had everything to do with their belief in
communism. Are you kidding? You really need that "demonstrated"?
Demonstrate that Islamic theism was a motivator for the 9/11 flyers.
Any kind of absolute idealistic belief system, which places the needs
of the ideal above the value of the individual, is as prone to
destructiveness as theistic religion.
It doesn't matter what the ideal is. Just that people let themselves
get brainwashed to the point of being stupid and/or psychotic about
it.
--
Joe Cosby
http://joecosby.com/
a cult is a religion without an army.
- nikolai kingsley
.
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| User: "Don Kresch" |
|
| Title: Re: It's OK if you don't believe in GOD but............ |
31 Jul 2004 07:55:17 PM |
|
|
In alt.atheism on Fri, 30 Jul 2004 15:42:37 -0700, Joe Cosby
<http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl> let us all know that:
On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 22:25:06 GMT, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 15:05:56 -0700, Joe Cosby
<http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl> wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 14:42:39 -0700, stoney
<stoney@localhost.localdomain> wrote:
Yes, theism is destructive whether it be Islam, or Christianity.
Oh my, please enlighten me as to how an atheist (no capital letter unless
it is the first word in a sentence) can be a zealot (no capital z as it
isn't the first word in the sentence). Note: Any response is sure to be
*very* entertaining! :D
Stalin. Mao. Etc.
So demonstrate that their atheism was a motivatoor in what they did.
They replace theism with communism. Atheism is an integral part of
communism,
No, it's not.
why do you think they make religion illegal?
They don't.
Don
---
aa #51, Knight of BAAWA, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man"
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
|
| Title: Re: It's OK if you don't believe in GOD but............ |
30 Jul 2004 06:11:30 PM |
|
|
On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 15:42:37 -0700, Joe Cosby
<http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl> wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 22:25:06 GMT, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 15:05:56 -0700, Joe Cosby
<http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl> wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 14:42:39 -0700, stoney
<stoney@localhost.localdomain> wrote:
Yes, theism is destructive whether it be Islam, or Christianity.
Oh my, please enlighten me as to how an atheist (no capital letter unless
it is the first word in a sentence) can be a zealot (no capital z as it
isn't the first word in the sentence). Note: Any response is sure to be
*very* entertaining! :D
Stalin. Mao. Etc.
So demonstrate that their atheism was a motivatoor in what they did.
They replace theism with communism. Atheism is an integral part of
communism, why do you think they make religion illegal?
You need to learn what atheism is and what it isn't.
You also need to learn that communism does not equal atheism or vice
versa. That in Central and South America and the Caribbean most
communists are Catholic.
When you look for why somebody does something, you have to find what
motivates them, not what doesn't.
The non-event that is atheism doesn't motivate anybody to do anything.
It's merely a label for what somebody isn't: they're not theist.
Most theists can't grasp the simple point that not believing their god
is no different than not believing the Easter Bunny. Did Hitler kill
millions because he didn't believe in the Easter Bunny?
You also need to understand that the closest atheists could come to
what you imagine, is that they aren't inclined to give churches etc
the free ride the religious feel due to them.
And that the Russian Orthodox Church was used by the Czars to keep the
serfs under control.
And that when they came into power they treated religion as another of
the tools used to keep them down. But even then they let people be
members of it.
Stalin saw enemies everywhere. He banned everything that wouldn't
co-operate with the state. But this was nothing to do with the
non-event that is atheism.
Obviously what they did had everything to do with their belief in
communism. Are you kidding? You really need that "demonstrated"?
BUT NOT BECAUSETHEY WERE ATHEIST.
Demonstrate that Islamic theism was a motivator for the 9/11 flyers.
That's your job, not mine.
But Islam wasn't a motivator for the 9/11 flyers. They had a grudge
against the USA, because of broken promises when they stationed troops
in Saudi Arabia "until Hussein left Kuwait". 10 years later they were
still there, against the wishes of the majority and even the Saudi
Royal family. Also for the US support for what the entire Arab world
sees as land taken from them to form a new country for refugees from
the holocaust after WW2.
The only part that was Islamic, is that they regarded themselves as
martyrs going to paradise, and that made it possible to do a suicide
attack.
Any kind of absolute idealistic belief system, which places the needs
of the ideal above the value of the individual, is as prone to
destructiveness as theistic religion.
Which has nothing to do with atheism, outside the bigoted fantasies of
the ignorant.
It doesn't matter what the ideal is. Just that people let themselves
get brainwashed to the point of being stupid and/or psychotic about
it.
Which is nothing to do with atheism.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Joe Cosby http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl" |
|
| Title: Re: It's OK if you don't believe in GOD but............ |
30 Jul 2004 07:08:29 PM |
|
|
On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 23:11:30 GMT, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 15:42:37 -0700, Joe Cosby
<http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl> wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 22:25:06 GMT, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 15:05:56 -0700, Joe Cosby
<http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl> wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 14:42:39 -0700, stoney
<stoney@localhost.localdomain> wrote:
Yes, theism is destructive whether it be Islam, or Christianity.
Oh my, please enlighten me as to how an atheist (no capital letter unless
it is the first word in a sentence) can be a zealot (no capital z as it
isn't the first word in the sentence). Note: Any response is sure to be
*very* entertaining! :D
Stalin. Mao. Etc.
So demonstrate that their atheism was a motivatoor in what they did.
They replace theism with communism. Atheism is an integral part of
communism, why do you think they make religion illegal?
You need to learn what atheism is and what it isn't.
You also need to learn that communism does not equal atheism or vice
versa. That in Central and South America and the Caribbean most
communists are Catholic.
When you look for why somebody does something, you have to find what
motivates them, not what doesn't.
The non-event that is atheism doesn't motivate anybody to do anything.
It's merely a label for what somebody isn't: they're not theist.
Most theists can't grasp the simple point that not believing their god
is no different than not believing the Easter Bunny. Did Hitler kill
millions because he didn't believe in the Easter Bunny?
You also need to understand that the closest atheists could come to
what you imagine, is that they aren't inclined to give churches etc
the free ride the religious feel due to them.
And that the Russian Orthodox Church was used by the Czars to keep the
serfs under control.
And that when they came into power they treated religion as another of
the tools used to keep them down. But even then they let people be
members of it.
Stalin saw enemies everywhere. He banned everything that wouldn't
co-operate with the state. But this was nothing to do with the
non-event that is atheism.
Obviously what they did had everything to do with their belief in
communism. Are you kidding? You really need that "demonstrated"?
BUT NOT BECAUSETHEY WERE ATHEIST.
Demonstrate that Islamic theism was a motivator for the 9/11 flyers.
That's your job, not mine.
But Islam wasn't a motivator for the 9/11 flyers. They had a grudge
against the USA, because of broken promises when they stationed troops
in Saudi Arabia "until Hussein left Kuwait". 10 years later they were
still there, against the wishes of the majority and even the Saudi
Royal family. Also for the US support for what the entire Arab world
sees as land taken from them to form a new country for refugees from
the holocaust after WW2.
The only part that was Islamic, is that they regarded themselves as
martyrs going to paradise, and that made it possible to do a suicide
attack.
Any kind of absolute idealistic belief system, which places the needs
of the ideal above the value of the individual, is as prone to
destructiveness as theistic religion.
Which has nothing to do with atheism, outside the bigoted fantasies of
the ignorant.
It doesn't matter what the ideal is. Just that people let themselves
get brainwashed to the point of being stupid and/or psychotic about
it.
Which is nothing to do with atheism.
So you're saying "prove to me that an atheist did something
destructive, which was motivated by their not believing in God, and
nothing but their not believing in God, anything else doesn't count".
Atheism was certainly a motivator for the communists or whoever else
in the 20th century, a part of their motivation. But that doesn't
seem to be your point.
Of course at that point it's silly. But then that wasn't the question
I was replying to, which was:
Oh my, please enlighten me as to how an atheist (no capital letter unless
it is the first word in a sentence) can be a zealot (no capital z as it
isn't the first word in the sentence). Note: Any response is sure to be
*very* entertaining! :D
To me it's a selective use of the word "atheism". As you say, atheism
is, in itself, not necessarily anything but a description of a belief
system which does not include a god. It does not necessarily describe
any belief system at all, per se. And in this case, you are saying
basically "there is no 'belief system' of atheism, so there couldn't
be such a thing as zealous defense of it"
But I don't really buy it. The fact that there is an alt.atheism
newsgroup at all, and regular participants in it, implies a
commonality of beliefs. You could certainly deny that, but just look
at this thread. Look at the article by "stoney" I am responding to.
Can you really deny that he's zealously defending a belief system?
So when it's convenient, atheism is "nothing but an absence of a
belief in a god", but also when it's convenient you can present
theists in your own argument as being the opposite of atheists, and
talk about their actions beyond their specific belief in god as being
part of being a "theist".
The destructiveness of theists certainly does not stem from their
belief in a god, not by itself. A combination of a belief in some god
and the political and social beliefs that are attached to that give
them an ability to believe that what they do is -absolutely- right.
Somebody like Stalin or Mao or Hitler can murder millions because of
their own belief in their own -absolute- rightness. A belief which
couldn't exist without their atheism.
--
Joe Cosby
http://joecosby.com/
"La Cucaracha, la Cucaracha,
Ya no puede caminar,
Porque no tiene, porque le falta,
Marijuana que fumar."
.
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| User: "Don Kresch" |
|
| Title: Re: It's OK if you don't believe in GOD but............ |
31 Jul 2004 10:02:01 PM |
|
|
In alt.atheism on Fri, 30 Jul 2004 17:08:29 -0700, Joe Cosby
<http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl> let us all know that:
On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 23:11:30 GMT, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
Which is nothing to do with atheism.
So you're saying "prove to me that an atheist did something
destructive, which was motivated by their not believing in God, and
nothing but their not believing in God, anything else doesn't count".
Yes.
Atheism was certainly a motivator for the communists or whoever else
in the 20th century, a part of their motivation.
Prove it! Don't just fucking reassert your fucking premise.
Of course at that point it's silly. But then that wasn't the question
I was replying to, which was:
Oh my, please enlighten me as to how an atheist (no capital letter unless
it is the first word in a sentence) can be a zealot (no capital z as it
isn't the first word in the sentence). Note: Any response is sure to be
*very* entertaining! :D
To me it's a selective use of the word "atheism". As you say, atheism
is, in itself, not necessarily anything but a description of a belief
system which does not include a god. It does not necessarily describe
any belief system at all, per se. And in this case, you are saying
basically "there is no 'belief system' of atheism, so there couldn't
be such a thing as zealous defense of it"
Then how is that selective?
But I don't really buy it.
That's your problem.
The fact that there is an alt.atheism
newsgroup at all, and regular participants in it, implies a
commonality of beliefs.
No it doesn't.
You could certainly deny that, but just look
at this thread. Look at the article by "stoney" I am responding to.
Can you really deny that he's zealously defending a belief system?
Yep.
Oh, Hitler wasn't an atheist, bucko. Nor was Stalin.
Don
---
aa #51, Knight of BAAWA, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man"
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: It's OK if you don't believe in GOD but............ |
01 Aug 2004 07:37:55 AM |
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On Sun, 01 Aug 2004 03:02:01 GMT, Don Kresch
<ROT13.qxerfpu@jv.ee.pbz.com> wrote:
In alt.atheism on Fri, 30 Jul 2004 17:08:29 -0700, Joe Cosby
<http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl> let us all know that:
On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 23:11:30 GMT, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
Which is nothing to do with atheism.
So you're saying "prove to me that an atheist did something
destructive, which was motivated by their not believing in God, and
nothing but their not believing in God, anything else doesn't count".
Yes.
Actually I wasn't saying quite that. I had been explaining that
atheism isn't what he imagines it is,
Atheism was certainly a motivator for the communists or whoever else
in the 20th century, a part of their motivation.
Prove it! Don't just fucking reassert your fucking premise.
It's one of those unquestionable, bigoted axioms that are treated as
fact because "everybody knows it".
Of course at that point it's silly. But then that wasn't the question
I was replying to, which was:
Oh my, please enlighten me as to how an atheist (no capital letter unless
it is the first word in a sentence) can be a zealot (no capital z as it
isn't the first word in the sentence). Note: Any response is sure to be
*very* entertaining! :D
To me it's a selective use of the word "atheism". As you say, atheism
is, in itself, not necessarily anything but a description of a belief
system which does not include a god. It does not necessarily describe
any belief system at all, per se. And in this case, you are saying
basically "there is no 'belief system' of atheism, so there couldn't
be such a thing as zealous defense of it"
Then how is that selective?
Because like most non-atheists, he is firmily convinced that "atheist"
means the theist misrepresentation. He hasn't the courtesy to grant
that this misrepresentation could be wrong, tries to "prove" that
we're perjuring himself and digs himself deeper each time.
It has been explained to him several times that it's not even a belief
let alone a belief system. The world doesn't revolve arounfd the deity
of somebody else's religion.
The word "atheist" acknowledges that people called theists exist, ansd
that we are not members of that set.
He can't grasp that we no more expend time and effort "believing that
god doesn't exist" than he does "believing that Zeus doesn't exist".
Or that this isn't foundational for us in the way that a Christian's
belief system is for them.
But I don't really buy it.
That's your problem.
And his rudeness.
The fact that there is an alt.atheism
newsgroup at all, and regular participants in it, implies a
commonality of beliefs.
No it doesn't.
It implies a commonality of issues. The more this guy posts, the
stupider he appears.
You could certainly deny that, but just look
at this thread. Look at the article by "stoney" I am responding to.
Can you really deny that he's zealously defending a belief system?
Yep.
Like the rest of us, he's trying to correct an arrogant jerk who
imagines he gets to tell atheists whatour position is.
Oh, Hitler wasn't an atheist, bucko. Nor was Stalin.
Don
---
aa #51, Knight of BAAWA, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man"
.
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| User: "Whosetitanelbow" |
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| Title: Re: It's OK if you don't believe in GOD but............ |
31 Jul 2004 09:36:44 PM |
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Joe Cosby <http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl> schreef in
berichtnieuws...news:7bnlg0tq9r0jgb48q9ktv8khk93jnmg0c5@4ax.com:
Somebody like Stalin or Mao or Hitler can murder millions because of
their own belief in their own -absolute- rightness. A belief which
couldn't exist without their atheism.
Wasn't Stalin an ordained Orthodox priest? Did they ever excommunicate
Mengele?
--
``The nuclear bomb, does that bother you?...I just want you to think big,
Henry, for Christsakes.'' -- R.M. Nixon
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: It's OK if you don't believe in GOD but............ |
01 Aug 2004 07:23:36 AM |
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On 1 Aug 2004 02:36:44 GMT, Whosetitanelbow
<crgre02+usenet@newsguy.com> wrote:
Joe Cosby <http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl> schreef in
berichtnieuws...news:7bnlg0tq9r0jgb48q9ktv8khk93jnmg0c5@4ax.com:
Somebody like Stalin or Mao or Hitler can murder millions because of
their own belief in their own -absolute- rightness. A belief which
couldn't exist without their atheism.
Hitler was Catholic.
And why does the liar imagine that anything at all is "a belief which
couldn't exist without their atheism"?
Wasn't Stalin an ordained Orthodox priest? Did they ever excommunicate
Mengele?
They certainly never excommunicated Hitler, who said he was carrying
out the Lord's work in his actions against the Jews. It's not atheists
who regard Jews as Christ-killers.
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: It's OK if you don't believe in GOD but............ |
30 Jul 2004 07:32:37 PM |
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On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 17:08:29 -0700, Joe Cosby
<http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl> wrote:
So you're saying "prove to me that an atheist did something
destructive, which was motivated by their not believing in God, and
nothing but their not believing in God, anything else doesn't count".
Atheism was certainly a motivator for the communists or whoever else
in the 20th century, a part of their motivation. But that doesn't
seem to be your point.
No, I'm trying to get an ignorant bigot to step aside from his
prejudice and realise that not believing in the deity of somebody
else's religion, is no different than not believing in Santa Claus.
[snip]
Somebody like Stalin or Mao or Hitler can murder millions because of
their own belief in their own -absolute- rightness. A belief which
couldn't exist without their atheism.
Hitler was Catholic, moron.
But thank you for confirming your inability to read for comprehension,
and your bigoted prejudice.
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: It's OK if you don't believe in GOD but............ |
30 Jul 2004 07:30:55 PM |
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On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 17:08:29 -0700, Joe Cosby
<http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl> wrote:
So you're saying "prove to me that an atheist did something
destructive, which was motivated by their not believing in God, and
nothing but their not believing in God, anything else doesn't count".
Atheism was certainly a motivator for the communists or whoever else
in the 20th century, a part of their motivation. But that doesn't
seem to be your point.
No, I'm trying to get an ignorant bigot to step aside from his
prejudice and realise that not believing in the deity of somebody
else's religion, is no different than not believing in Santa Claus.
[snip]
Somebody like Stalin or Mao or Hitler can murder millions because of
their own belief in their own -absolute- rightness. A belief which
couldn't exist without their atheism.
Thank you for confirming your inability to read for comprehension, and
your bigoted prejudice.
.
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| User: "Joe Cosby http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl" |
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| Title: Re: It's OK if you don't believe in GOD but............ |
30 Jul 2004 08:16:35 PM |
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On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 00:30:55 GMT, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 17:08:29 -0700, Joe Cosby
<http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl> wrote:
So you're saying "prove to me that an atheist did something
destructive, which was motivated by their not believing in God, and
nothing but their not believing in God, anything else doesn't count".
Atheism was certainly a motivator for the communists or whoever else
in the 20th century, a part of their motivation. But that doesn't
seem to be your point.
No, I'm trying to get an ignorant bigot to step aside from his
prejudice and realise that not believing in the deity of somebody
else's religion, is no different than not believing in Santa Claus.
What the hell are you talking about?
[snip]
Somebody like Stalin or Mao or Hitler can murder millions because of
their own belief in their own -absolute- rightness. A belief which
couldn't exist without their atheism.
Thank you for confirming your inability to read for comprehension, and
your bigoted prejudice.
I'm going to have to call a time-out if you don't behave, young man.
--
Joe Cosby
http://joecosby.com/
"If someone is so fearful that, that they're going
to start using their weapons to protect their rights,
it makes me very nervous that these people have
these weapons at all!"
--Rep. Henry Waxman (D-CA) on MSNBC.
from
----------------------
http://www.datasync.com/~ericfree
----------------------
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: It's OK if you don't believe in GOD but............ |
31 Jul 2004 05:13:24 AM |
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On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 18:16:35 -0700, Joe Cosby
<http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl> wrote:
On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 00:30:55 GMT, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 17:08:29 -0700, Joe Cosby
<http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl> wrote:
So you're saying "prove to me that an atheist did something
destructive, which was motivated by their not believing in God, and
nothing but their not believing in God, anything else doesn't count".
Atheism was certainly a motivator for the communists or whoever else
in the 20th century, a part of their motivation. But that doesn't
seem to be your point.
No, I'm trying to get an ignorant bigot to step aside from his
prejudice and realise that not believing in the deity of somebody
else's religion, is no different than not believing in Santa Claus.
What the hell are you talking about?
I'll remind you that you lectured an atheist (me) on what it means to
be atheist - and got it nastily wrong.
Because you still can't grasp that not believing in in God is no
different than not believing in the Easter Bunny - it's a non-event.
[snip]
Somebody like Stalin or Mao or Hitler can murder millions because of
their own belief in their own -absolute- rightness. A belief which
couldn't exist without their atheism.
Why couldn't it? That is a bigoted non-sequitur.
Thank you for confirming your inability to read for comprehension, and
your bigoted prejudice.
I'm going to have to call a time-out if you don't behave, young man.
You are either a liar or an idiot. Or both. For starters, Hitler was
Catholic.
And you still don't seem to grasp that athism per se is a non-event so
you have to look for what motivated them instead of what doesn't.
All because you don't realise that an atheist not believing in God is
no different than your not believing in Zeus, and repeatedly ignore
explnations like this.
.
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| User: "Joe Cosby http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl" |
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| Title: Re: It's OK if you don't believe in GOD but............ |
31 Jul 2004 01:16:47 AM |
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On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 00:30:55 GMT, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 17:08:29 -0700, Joe Cosby
<http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl> wrote:
So you're saying "prove to me that an atheist did something
destructive, which was motivated by their not believing in God, and
nothing but their not believing in God, anything else doesn't count".
Atheism was certainly a motivator for the communists or whoever else
in the 20th century, a part of their motivation. But that doesn't
seem to be your point.
No, I'm trying to get an ignorant bigot to step aside from his
prejudice and realise that not believing in the deity of somebody
else's religion, is no different than not believing in Santa Claus.
[snip]
Somebody like Stalin or Mao or Hitler can murder millions because of
their own belief in their own -absolute- rightness. A belief which
couldn't exist without their atheism.
Thank you for confirming your inability to read for comprehension, and
your bigoted prejudice.
You know I'm really not trying to flame you or something. I'm not
really a theist. I'm capable of believing in an "anima mundi" or
something but not God who talks to people and walks around backwards
smiting chipmunks. I just try to point out a logical counterpoint.
IMO absolute, unqualified beliefs are dangerous -because- they're
absolutes. Because they're dehuman.
--
Joe Cosby
http://joecosby.com/
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an
invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, pitch manure, solve equations,
analyze a new problem, program a computer, cook a tasty meal,
fight efficiently, die gallantly.... specialization is for insects"
Robert Heinlein (Lazarus Long in 'Time Enough for Love')
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: It's OK if you don't believe in GOD but............ |
31 Jul 2004 05:23:55 AM |
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On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 23:16:47 -0700, Joe Cosby
<http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl> wrote:
On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 00:30:55 GMT, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 17:08:29 -0700, Joe Cosby
<http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl> wrote:
So you're saying "prove to me that an atheist did something
destructive, which was motivated by their not believing in God, and
nothing but their not believing in God, anything else doesn't count".
Atheism was certainly a motivator for the communists or whoever else
in the 20th century, a part of their motivation. But that doesn't
seem to be your point.
NO. IT WASN'T A MOTIVATION FOR ANYTHING, any more than your not
believing in the Easter Bunny is a motivator.
Please, pretty please, try to read explanations of what it means to be
atheist, for comprehension without filtering them through bigoted
stereotypes.
No, I'm trying to get an ignorant bigot to step aside from his
prejudice and realise that not believing in the deity of somebody
else's religion, is no different than not believing in Santa Claus.
[snip]
Somebody like Stalin or Mao or Hitler can murder millions because of
their own belief in their own -absolute- rightness. A belief which
couldn't exist without their atheism.
Thank you for confirming your inability to read for comprehension, and
your bigoted prejudice.
You know I'm really not trying to flame you or something. I'm not
really a theist. I'm capable of believing in an "anima mundi" or
something but not God who talks to people and walks around backwards
smiting chipmunks. I just try to point out a logical counterpoint.
Then why are you using common theist bigoted slanders,
misrepresentations and ignorance, etc?
For starters, Hitler was Catholic and the culmination of two millenia
of anti-semitiam fostered by the churches.
IMO absolute, unqualified beliefs are dangerous -because- they're
absolutes. Because they're dehuman.
BUT THEY ARE NOT THE CONSEQUENCE OF NOT-BELIEVING IN SANTA CLAUS, THE
EASTER BUNNY OR THE DEITY OF SOMEBODY ELSE'S RELIGION. So why pretend
they are?
What is so hard to grasp about that? It's no different than not
believing in Zeus, Santa Claus or the easter Bunny?
You might just as well say that Stalin killed people beause he wore a
moustache. As an event it's the same order of importance.
.
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| User: "thomas p" |
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| Title: Re: It's OK if you don't believe in GOD but............ |
31 Jul 2004 10:45:00 AM |
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On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 23:16:47 -0700, Joe Cosby
<http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl> wrote:
On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 00:30:55 GMT, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 17:08:29 -0700, Joe Cosby
<http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl> wrote:
snip
Somebody like Stalin or Mao or Hitler can murder millions because of
their own belief in their own -absolute- rightness. A belief which
couldn't exist without their atheism.
Of course it could. There have been people like that all through
recorded history. Many of them were theists of one kind or another.
There is nothing, absolutely nothing in atheism that justifies killing
or not killing or supporting or resisting any political system. Many
religions, however, do contain justification for killing others or for
authoritarian political systems.
Thank you for confirming your inability to read for comprehension, and
your bigoted prejudice.
You know I'm really not trying to flame you or something. I'm not
really a theist. I'm capable of believing in an "anima mundi" or
something but not God who talks to people and walks around backwards
smiting chipmunks. I just try to point out a logical counterpoint.
IMO absolute, unqualified beliefs are dangerous -because- they're
absolutes. Because they're dehuman.
And, once again, since atheism is not a belief system or even a belief
it cannot come under that classification.
Some atheists may be quite fanatical about whatever doctrine they
believe in, but atheism does not make them that way. I can imagine
some atheists thinking that all religious beliefs should be repressed,
but atheism provides no justification for that position.
.
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| User: "Joe Cosby http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl" |
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| Title: Re: It's OK if you don't believe in GOD but............ |
31 Jul 2004 11:59:50 AM |
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On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 17:45:00 +0200, thomas p
<thomasagainspam@yahoo.dk> wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 23:16:47 -0700, Joe Cosby
<http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl> wrote:
On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 00:30:55 GMT, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 17:08:29 -0700, Joe Cosby
<http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl> wrote:
snip
Somebody like Stalin or Mao or Hitler can murder millions because of
their own belief in their own -absolute- rightness. A belief which
couldn't exist without their atheism.
Of course it could. There have been people like that all through
recorded history. Many of them were theists of one kind or another.
There is nothing, absolutely nothing in atheism that justifies killing
or not killing or supporting or resisting any political system. Many
religions, however, do contain justification for killing others or for
authoritarian political systems.
Thank you for confirming your inability to read for comprehension, and
your bigoted prejudice.
You know I'm really not trying to flame you or something. I'm not
really a theist. I'm capable of believing in an "anima mundi" or
something but not God who talks to people and walks around backwards
smiting chipmunks. I just try to point out a logical counterpoint.
IMO absolute, unqualified beliefs are dangerous -because- they're
absolutes. Because they're dehuman.
And, once again, since atheism is not a belief system or even a belief
it cannot come under that classification.
Some atheists may be quite fanatical about whatever doctrine they
believe in, but atheism does not make them that way. I can imagine
some atheists thinking that all religious beliefs should be repressed,
but atheism provides no justification for that position.
Everything that both you and Chris Lee are saying I have already
addressed.
--
Joe Cosby
http://joecosby.com/
Hurricanes to be considered terrorist acts. God said to be worried
.
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| User: "thomas p" |
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| Title: Re: It's OK if you don't believe in GOD but............ |
01 Aug 2004 01:58:43 AM |
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On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 09:59:50 -0700, Joe Cosby
<http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl> wrote:
On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 17:45:00 +0200, thomas p
<thomasagainspam@yahoo.dk> wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 23:16:47 -0700, Joe Cosby
<http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl> wrote:
On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 00:30:55 GMT, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 17:08:29 -0700, Joe Cosby
<http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl> wrote:
snip
Somebody like Stalin or Mao or Hitler can murder millions because of
their own belief in their own -absolute- rightness. A belief which
couldn't exist without their atheism.
Of course it could. There have been people like that all through
recorded history. Many of them were theists of one kind or another.
There is nothing, absolutely nothing in atheism that justifies killing
or not killing or supporting or resisting any political system. Many
religions, however, do contain justification for killing others or for
authoritarian political systems.
Thank you for confirming your inability to read for comprehension, and
your bigoted prejudice.
You know I'm really not trying to flame you or something. I'm not
really a theist. I'm capable of believing in an "anima mundi" or
something but not God who talks to people and walks around backwards
smiting chipmunks. I just try to point out a logical counterpoint.
IMO absolute, unqualified beliefs are dangerous -because- they're
absolutes. Because they're dehuman.
And, once again, since atheism is not a belief system or even a belief
it cannot come under that classification. Some atheists may be quite
fanatical about whatever doctrine they
believe in, but atheism does not make them that way. I can imagine
some atheists thinking that all religious beliefs should be repressed,
but atheism provides no justification for that position.
Everything that both you and Chris Lee are saying I have already
addressed.
Just to use one example of what you have been saying, Stoney wrote:
Oh my, please enlighten me as to how an atheist (no capital letter unless
it is the first word in a sentence) can be a zealot (no capital z as it
isn't the first word in the sentence). Note: Any response is sure to be
*very* entertaining! :D
To which your response was:
Stalin. Mao. Etc.
As your answer shows, you have been clearly suggesting that there are
atheist zealots instead of zealots or megalomaniacs who happened to be
atheists.
.
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| User: "Joe Cosby http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl" |
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| Title: Re: It's OK if you don't believe in GOD but............ |
01 Aug 2004 02:24:46 AM |
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On Sun, 01 Aug 2004 08:58:43 +0200, thomas p
<thomasagainspam@yahoo.dk> wrote:
As your answer shows, you have been clearly suggesting that there are
atheist zealots instead of zealots or megalomaniacs who happened to be
atheists.
read everything I've posted in this thread so far.
Or don't.
--
Joe Cosby
http://joecosby.com/
Ego. Id. "Bob".
.
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| User: "thomas p" |
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| Title: Re: It's OK if you don't believe in GOD but............ |
01 Aug 2004 08:53:44 AM |
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On Sun, 01 Aug 2004 00:24:46 -0700, Joe Cosby
<http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl> wrote:
On Sun, 01 Aug 2004 08:58:43 +0200, thomas p
<thomasagainspam@yahoo.dk> wrote:
As your answer shows, you have been clearly suggesting that there are
atheist zealots instead of zealots or megalomaniacs who happened to be
atheists.
read everything I've posted in this thread so far.
Or don't.
Once again:
Just to use one example of what you have been saying, Stoney wrote:
Oh my, please enlighten me as to how an atheist (no capital letter unless
it is the first word in a sentence) can be a zealot (no capital z as it
isn't the first word in the sentence). Note: Any response is sure to be
*very* entertaining! :D
To which your response was:
Stalin. Mao. Etc.
And I wrote:
As your answer shows, you have been clearly suggesting that there are
atheist zealots instead of zealots or megalomaniacs who happened to be
atheists.
Why not post what you actually believe instead of playing silly games?
Apparently you find it extremely funny that people would actually take
you seriously. That is sad.
.
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| User: "Joe Cosby http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl" |
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| Title: Re: It's OK if you don't believe in GOD but............ |
01 Aug 2004 01:42:57 PM |
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On Sun, 01 Aug 2004 15:53:44 +0200, thomas p
<thomasagainspam@yahoo.dk> wrote:
On Sun, 01 Aug 2004 00:24:46 -0700, Joe Cosby
<http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl> wrote:
On Sun, 01 Aug 2004 08:58:43 +0200, thomas p
<thomasagainspam@yahoo.dk> wrote:
As your answer shows, you have been clearly suggesting that there are
atheist zealots instead of zealots or megalomaniacs who happened to be
atheists.
read everything I've posted in this thread so far.
Or don't.
Once again:
Just to use one example of what you have been saying, Stoney wrote:
Oh my, please enlighten me as to how an atheist (no capital letter unless
it is the first word in a sentence) can be a zealot (no capital z as it
isn't the first word in the sentence). Note: Any response is sure to be
*very* entertaining! :D
To which your response was:
Stalin. Mao. Etc.
And I wrote:
As your answer shows, you have been clearly suggesting that there are
atheist zealots instead of zealots or megalomaniacs who happened to be
atheists.
Why not post what you actually believe instead of playing silly games?
Apparently you find it extremely funny that people would actually take
you seriously. That is sad.
http://tinyurl.com/6bqu7
--
Joe Cosby
http://joecosby.com/
Holy *****!
They're ALL Davy Jones!
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: It's OK if you don't believe in GOD but............ |
01 Aug 2004 07:43:33 AM |
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On Sun, 01 Aug 2004 08:58:43 +0200, thomas p
<thomasagainspam@yahoo.dk> wrote:
And, once again, since atheism is not a belief system or even a belief
it cannot come under that classification. Some atheists may be quite
fanatical about whatever doctrine they
believe in, but atheism does not make them that way. I can imagine
some atheists thinking that all religious beliefs should be repressed,
but atheism provides no justification for that position.
Everything that both you and Chris Lee are saying I have already
addressed.
Apparently he imagines that repeating his original misrepresentations,
and inventing more falsehoods about atheists, is "has already been
addressed".
Just to use one example of what you have been saying, Stoney wrote:
Oh my, please enlighten me as to how an atheist (no capital letter unless
it is the first word in a sentence) can be a zealot (no capital z as it
isn't the first word in the sentence). Note: Any response is sure to be
*very* entertaining! :D
To which your response was:
Stalin. Mao. Etc.
His original included Hitler, whom everybody knows was Christian
(subset Catholic) even those in wilful denial.
But even for those who might have been atheist, he did not show that
they did this because of their atheism. This is a case of a bigoted
"everybody knows" rather than addressing facts. He should provide
something equivalent to the church documents ordering the crusades, or
Hitler's writings where he said he was doing the Lord's work.
As your answer shows, you have been clearly suggesting that there are
atheist zealots instead of zealots or megalomaniacs who happened to be
atheists.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: It's OK if you don't believe in GOD but............ |
31 Jul 2004 11:13:00 AM |
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On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 17:45:00 +0200, thomas p
<thomasagainspam@yahoo.dk> wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 23:16:47 -0700, Joe Cosby
<http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl> wrote:
On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 00:30:55 GMT, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 17:08:29 -0700, Joe Cosby
<http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl> wrote:
snip
Somebody like Stalin or Mao or Hitler can murder millions because of
their own belief in their own -absolute- rightness. A belief which
couldn't exist without their atheism.
Of course it could. There have been people like that all through
recorded history. Many of them were theists of one kind or another.
There is nothing, absolutely nothing in atheism that justifies killing
or not killing or supporting or resisting any political system. Many
religions, however, do contain justification for killing others or for
authoritarian political systems.
The problem is that "everybody knows" that Stalin did what he did
because he was atheist. It's part of church teaching in many
denominations, to keep them in the fold. Received wisdom, even though
it's wrong.
One of my more puzzling experiences was a Catholic friend who isn't
normally like that, lecturing me on why atheism was evil, refusing to
listen to an atheist explaining exactly what it means to be atheist,
refusing to accept this and then lecturing me about "atheistic
communism" to "prove" his point.
There's something about religion that destroys both common courtesy
and a thinking mind. He couldn't accept that this was an atheist
describing it. Just as he couldn't grasp that no matter how seriously
he took it, to atheists it is just something he believes, little
different than eg Zeus is to him.
His response was that of course they were different. And he listed why
they were - to him. Missing the remarkably obvious point that not
everybody sees it the way he does.
Thank you for confirming your inability to read for comprehension, and
your bigoted prejudice.
You know I'm really not trying to flame you or something. I'm not
really a theist. I'm capable of believing in an "anima mundi" or
something but not God who talks to people and walks around backwards
smiting chipmunks. I just try to point out a logical counterpoint.
IMO absolute, unqualified beliefs are dangerous -because- they're
absolutes. Because they're dehuman.
And, once again, since atheism is not a belief system or even a belief
it cannot come under that classification.
Some atheists may be quite fanatical about whatever doctrine they
believe in, but atheism does not make them that way. I can imagine
some atheists thinking that all religious beliefs should be repressed,
but atheism provides no justification for that position.
The problem is that non-atheists imagine atheism is the theist's
strawman. And that the majority gets to define the meaning of the
word. Even agnostics imagine they get to tell atheists what our POV is
- yet they get upset when people get theirs wrong.
The previous poster imagines he knows what it means to be atheist,
better than we atheists do ourselves. HE lectured me on it, which
iswas when the flames started because he was unsurprisingly wrong.
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| User: "Joe Cosby http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl" |
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| Title: Re: It's OK if you don't believe in GOD but............ |
31 Jul 2004 12:04:00 PM |
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On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 16:13:00 GMT, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
The problem is that "everybody knows" that Stalin did what he did
because he was atheist.
I didn't say, or mean that.
It's part of church teaching in many
denominations,
I've never been to church.
to keep them in the fold. Received wisdom, even though
it's wrong.
One of my more puzzling experiences was a Catholic friend who isn't
normally like that, lecturing me on why atheism was evil, refusing to
listen to an atheist explaining exactly what it means to be atheist,
refusing to accept this and then lecturing me about "atheistic
communism" to "prove" his point.
I'm not trying to say that atheism is evil.
At least now I think I know why you were going off about me being a
"bigot" and "slandering". Really if you look at what I wrote, it
doesn't make sense and I had no idea where you came up with it.
--
Joe Cosby
http://joecosby.com/
Me TOOL USER! FIVE-FINGER-MAN! Make weapons! Sharp arrow heads! Strong
bow! Trade to beady-eyed hunter types! Chase wives while hunter-types
gone! Make pictures on cave wall, say magic words while wearing scary
bear skull, keep whole tribe guessing!
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| User: "Joe Cosby http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl" |
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| Title: Re: It's OK if you don't believe in GOD but............ |
31 Jul 2004 12:44:24 PM |
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On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 10:04:00 -0700, Joe Cosby
<http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl> wrote:
On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 16:13:00 GMT, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
The problem is that "everybody knows" that Stalin did what he did
because he was atheist.
I didn't say, or mean that.
It's part of church teaching in many
denominations,
I've never been to church.
to keep them in the fold. Received wisdom, even though
it's wrong.
One of my more puzzling experiences was a Catholic friend who isn't
normally like that, lecturing me on why atheism was evil, refusing to
listen to an atheist explaining exactly what it means to be atheist,
refusing to accept this and then lecturing me about "atheistic
communism" to "prove" his point.
I'm not trying to say that atheism is evil.
At least now I think I know why you were going off about me being a
"bigot" and "slandering". Really if you look at what I wrote, it
doesn't make sense and I had no idea where you came up with it.
Really the only reason I posted in this thread at all spun off from
something I was saying in another thread, that people can be as blind,
blinkered and fanatical as religious people based on other belief
systems or political systems or whatever.
Now here you are, hearing me say things I never said, repeating
arguments that I already addressed (like both you and the other guy
repeating the "atheism is not a belief system" argument, which I
already addressed, while ignoring the arguments with which I addressed
it), going off on complete non-sequiters and hysterical attacks.
It's exactly what I'm talking about. To me it's just like watching a
Christian stick his fingers in his ears and go "LA LA LA I'M NOT
LISTENING THERE IS TOO A GOD" which is all most of their arguments
really boil down to.
If you really hate ignorance, there's more to it than just choosing
the right team and fighting for it. Unless you really believe that
there is some team of humans which is never ignorant and some other
team which is always ignorant. Personally, I have yet to see either.
***** the team. Being a team player is a disease. It's exactly the
thing that the really bad people, whether they are religious like
Torquemada or Nazis like Hitler or Communists like Stalin, manipulate
to screw everybody over.
Just because I point out what I think is a valid error in what
somebody says, you figure I am on THE OTHER TEAM.
At that point, it is evident that you aren't CAPABLE OF BELIEVING that
your team could possibly make an error.
At which point, you have been conned.
--
Joe Cosby
http://joecosby.com/
"You RAT!," she cried, as she threw a plate at
me, "Was it Jane, Mary or Nancy--those whores?"
But I refused to tell, saying I was too gallant.
She never did forgive me, but at least she
had given me a few good leads.
-- nu-monet
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: It's OK if you don't believe in GOD but............ |
01 Aug 2004 07:16:14 AM |
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On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 10:44:24 -0700, Joe Cosby
<http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl> wrote:
On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 10:04:00 -0700, Joe Cosby
<http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl> wrote:
On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 16:13:00 GMT, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
The problem is that "everybody knows" that Stalin did what he did
because he was atheist.
I didn't say, or mean that.
It's part of church teaching in many
denominations,
I've never been to church.
to keep them in the fold. Received wisdom, even though
it's wrong.
One of my more puzzling experiences was a Catholic friend who isn't
normally like that, lecturing me on why atheism was evil, refusing to
listen to an atheist explaining exactly what it means to be atheist,
refusing to accept this and then lecturing me about "atheistic
communism" to "prove" his point.
I'm not trying to say that atheism is evil.
At least now I think I know why you were going off about me being a
"bigot" and "slandering". Really if you look at what I wrote, it
doesn't make sense and I had no idea where you came up with it.
Really the only reason I posted in this thread at all spun off from
something I was saying in another thread, that people can be as blind,
blinkered and fanatical as religious people based on other belief
systems or political systems or whatever.
You must be speaking for yourself, with your blind, blinkered and
fanatical insistence that atheism is what you tell atheists it is,
instead of what it actually is.
Now here you are, hearing me say things I never said, repeating
arguments that I already addressed (like both you and the other guy
repeating the "atheism is not a belief system" argument, which I
already addressed, while ignoring the arguments with which I addressed
it), going off on complete non-sequiters and hysterical attacks.
It's not a belief system, liar.
And there were no "hysterical attacks". That is another of your liars.
You totally ignored explanations from atheists as to what it means to
be atheist. And tried to prove we weren't telling the truth about
ourselves.
You seem to have no idea just how nasty this is.
It's exactly what I'm talking about. To me it's just like watching a
Only in your imagination.
Christian stick his fingers in his ears and go "LA LA LA I'M NOT
LISTENING THERE IS TOO A GOD" which is all most of their arguments
really boil down to.
AND TO US YOUR REPEATED INSISTENCE THAT ATHEISM ISN'T WHAT WE ATHEISTS
DESCRIBE, AND NASTILY TRYING TO "PROVE" THIS, IS UO YOURSELF PUTTINMG
YOUR FINGERS IN YOUR EARS AND GOING "LA LA LA". Which is all YOUR
arguments boil down to.
You don't have the common courtesy to grant that we atheists might
actually know our own position. After all you're not a mind-reader,
yet you feel you can arrogantly insist we're not telling the truth
about ourselves.
Because that's what any attempt to disprove what we say about
ourselves is.
If you really hate ignorance, there's more to it than just choosing
the right team and fighting for it. Unless you really believe that
there is some team of humans which is never ignorant and some other
team which is always ignorant. Personally, I have yet to see either.
Oh, the irony. All we're trying to do is correct your own ignorance.
AFTER you had told atheists what our position was and got it wrong.
***** the team. Being a team player is a disease. It's exactly the
thing that the really bad people, whether they are religious like
Torquemada or Nazis like Hitler or Communists like Stalin, manipulate
to screw everybody over.
Look, moron, all "atheist" is, is a label for what we're NOT. It's
pretty much all that we've got in common.
We're not theist. That's all. We would have nothing to say about other
people's deity beliefs if they let everybody live and let live.
Just because I point out what I think is a valid error in what
somebody says, you figure I am on THE OTHER TEAM.
Yet another phony amateur-psychologised lie on your part.
YOU IMAGINE THAT RUDELY PICKING HOLES IN ATHEISTS DESCRIBING WHAT IT
MEANS TO BE ATHEIST, IS "POINTING OUT A VALID ERROR". Which you then
compound by invoking the theist's slanderous stereotype of atheists,
eg by equating atheism with communism (which is both extremely rude,
ignorant and stupid).
You dig yourself even deeper by telling us that Hitler was atheist and
without atheism he wouldn't have done what he did. When in reality he
was a Catholic acting out the culmination of two millennia of
institutionalised CHRISTIAN anti-semitism.
At that point, it is evident that you aren't CAPABLE OF BELIEVING that
your team could possibly make an error.
Yet another of your stupid, nasty, amateur psychologised lies - all
because you haven't the common courtesy to accept that atheists might
actually be telling the truth about what it means to be atheist.
At which point, you have been conned.
Why do you lie, liar?
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