| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Marguerita" |
| Date: |
02 Apr 2004 07:28:20 AM |
| Object: |
Re: Jesus sacrifice is hardly a sacrifice |
On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 18:48:11 GMT, walksalone
<walksalone@dastardly.dirty.deeds.done.dirt.cheap.llc> wrote:
On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 15:44:22 +0000, Marguerita wrote:
On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:17:57 -0800, walksalone <spam@fcc.gov> wrote:
On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 16:16:08 +0000, Marguerita wrote:
On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 13:33:47 -0800, walksalone <spam@fcc.gov> wrote:
On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:59:14 +0000, Marguerita wrote:
On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 21:35:20 GMT, walksalone
<walksalone@dastardly.dirty.deeds.done.dirt.cheap.llc> wrote:
On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 16:31:07 -0500, Jeff George wrote:
Follow ups set to arcb & AA.
On Sat, 27 Mar 2004 01:59:41 GMT, "Sowcrates" <s2cra@ereel.com> wrote:
Snip
all those hippies treat it like their Mecca!
<looks in mirror> Watch those hippy innuendos if you don't mind!<Puts nose
in air, Sniff>
I have nothing against hippies - very fine people :-)
Well, OK, just be more careful in the future. <G>
I will! Does it help that I'm wearing flares?
snip
walksalone who admits, if one allows the xian version of the Jewish messiah
to stand, anyone could qualify.
That's just one of the things about modern Christianity that confuses
me! If followers must rely on faith and not challenge the son of this
When there is no real world evidence, faith must be the cornerstone of
their mythology. Ti's equally true for other mythology's I would expect.
Indeed... but how do they decide what to believe in and what to
Personal observation & therefore opinion.
I suspect they believe in the first place due to one of two fears.
Fear that it might be true, & therefore they had best sign on.
Fear that it might not be true & they do so want it to be true that they
try to will it into existence.
That's an across the board observation & therefore is not definitive or
binding to anyone but myself.
reject? That's what confuses me. Why decide that one person is telling
the truth and another lying? How can such decisions be made in the
absence of any evidence?
Another basic observation, & I suspect this is not just the xian myth,
accept the parts that make you feel good or give you hope for after you are
dead.
The hope bit I can sort of understand, but it seems to me that someone
who spends their live hoping is not actually *living*. It seems like a
wasted life to spend it looking forward to an afterlife when you can't
actually be sure that there *is* an afterlife. It's like making a
choice between enjoying life now, or hoping that we might have a
chance to enjoy it later.
God to test himself, then how the heck will they know which one he or
she is? It could be me and I could be testing their faith... sounds
like a pretty good job to me! Free wine.
Had you considered the down side, should you elect to be one of the
revealed dessert gods, you have all these people begging you to quit paying
attention to running the universe smite their enemy's, or grant them a pay
raise, or any of a million other things they can't do on their own. Sounds
pretty noisy to me.
That's true. I suppose I could just do the Christian thing and smite
*them* when they got too annoying, though. Or just accuse them of
Your arm would tire in less than a day according to the volume I've
encountered.
Then I'd have to raise an army and murder them en masse! Hang on, this
is starting to sound familiar...
heresy and get other people to burn them. That seems to work pretty
well.
Ah yes, In the Name of God. Problem is nowadays, they actually have whole
society's that just won't co-operate anymore.
The nerve of people.
I know! It's disgusting. Using their free will like that! We should be
ashamed of ourselves.
Now a god like Ahone, that might not be to bad, he just ignores humans &
ends to what a god has to do, whatever that might be.
Interesting thought, that. What *would* you do if you were omnipotent?
I certainly wouldn't just sit back and do nothing, as the current
incumbent seems to be doing.
If I were impotent, can't say. Probably write a message in the heavens
like*get off your dead asses & tend to the problems you created by
yourself*. Couldn't really say though, I have a conscience & could never
bear to see all the needless suffering that this world has.
Would you be tempted to kick people's arses as well as correct stuff?
I would. Be too hard to resist! First thing I'd do would be a slightly
altered version of the burning Bush ;-)
M
Take care & drop by anytime you are of a mind to, usually can be found in
alt.atehsim though I do monitor ARCB.
I like alt.atheism. It has a superb blend of cool people,
intelligence, astonishing stupidity and complete crackpots. It's very
entertaining :-)
M
.
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| User: "walksalone" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus sacrifice is hardly a sacrifice |
02 Apr 2004 08:02:43 AM |
|
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On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 13:28:20 +0000, Marguerita wrote:
On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 18:48:11 GMT, walksalone
<walksalone@dastardly.dirty.deeds.done.dirt.cheap.llc> wrote:
snip including prior attributes
Well, OK, just be more careful in the future. <G>
I will! Does it help that I'm wearing flares?
<mind boggles watching image of 5' petitie female walking through a china
shop in 4' flairs>
snip
snip
Personal observation & therefore opinion.
I suspect they believe in the first place due to one of two fears.
Fear that it might be true, & therefore they had best sign on.
Fear that it might not be true & they do so want it to be true that they
try to will it into existence.
That's an across the board observation & therefore is not definitive or
binding to anyone but myself.
reject? That's what confuses me. Why decide that one person is telling
the truth and another lying? How can such decisions be made in the
absence of any evidence?
Another basic observation, & I suspect this is not just the xian myth,
accept the parts that make you feel good or give you hope for after you are
dead.
The hope bit I can sort of understand, but it seems to me that someone
I can't, after all, one has the chance to live a full life, there comes a
time when it is enough. Why continue it unless you know you will be able to
do greater good [a variable, but not for me, as in helping humanity up the
ladder of life]
who spends their live hoping is not actually *living*. It seems like a
wasted life to spend it looking forward to an afterlife when you can't
actually be sure that there *is* an afterlife. It's like making a
choice between enjoying life now, or hoping that we might have a
chance to enjoy it later.
It is called chasing the chimera, or if you have read/seen the Wizard of
Oz, the man behind the curtain.
No one can't prove it does not exist, so some hope for a better life rather
than work towards a better life.
snip
That's true. I suppose I could just do the Christian thing and smite
*them* when they got too annoying, though. Or just accuse them of
Your arm would tire in less than a day according to the volume I've
encountered.
Then I'd have to raise an army and murder them en masse! Hang on, this
is starting to sound familiar...
You noticed. Good on you.
heresy and get other people to burn them. That seems to work pretty
well.
Ah yes, In the Name of God. Problem is nowadays, they actually have whole
society's that just won't co-operate anymore.
The nerve of people.
I know! It's disgusting. Using their free will like that! We should be
ashamed of ourselves.
I for one refuse to bow my head when I have done nothing to be ashamed of,
such as thinking & teaching my children [with the help of some great
lady's] to think for themselves.
Now a god like Ahone, that might not be to bad, he just ignores humans &
ends to what a god has to do, whatever that might be.
Interesting thought, that. What *would* you do if you were omnipotent?
I certainly wouldn't just sit back and do nothing, as the current
incumbent seems to be doing.
If I were impotent, can't say. Probably write a message in the heavens
like*get off your dead asses & tend to the problems you created by
yourself*. Couldn't really say though, I have a conscience & could never
bear to see all the needless suffering that this world has.
Would you be tempted to kick people's arses as well as correct stuff?
No, 3 years in Nam convinced me that wasteful abuse of human lives is not a
thing for me.
I would. Be too hard to resist! First thing I'd do would be a slightly
altered version of the burning Bush ;-)
<dare'st I go there, best not I think>
M
Take care & drop by anytime you are of a mind to, usually can be found in
alt.atehsim though I do monitor ARCB.
I like alt.atheism. It has a superb blend of cool people,
intelligence, astonishing stupidity and complete crackpots. It's very
entertaining :-)
Indeed, though I am one of the less educated there, I find that people are
willing to help me understand concepts that I can understand.
There are subjects I will never ken, but the majority of those folks that
could would try to help.
& unlike the mythology's of the world, those explanations would make sense
if I ever comprehended the subject.
Gods I comprehend, they make no sense in the world of today. But there they
are.
The xian pantheon has several though xians don't know it, for they are
never taught.
I suspect that to be true in all three of the revealed dessert religions in
particular.
M
walksalone who is out of this delightful conversation now, but there is
always a welcome mat out for you & other decent people.
.
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| User: "Marguerita" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus sacrifice is hardly a sacrifice |
02 Apr 2004 06:58:26 PM |
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On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 14:02:43 GMT, walksalone
<walksalone@dastardly.dirty.deeds.done.dirt.cheap.llc> wrote:
On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 13:28:20 +0000, Marguerita wrote:
On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 18:48:11 GMT, walksalone
<walksalone@dastardly.dirty.deeds.done.dirt.cheap.llc> wrote:
snip including prior attributes
Well, OK, just be more careful in the future. <G>
I will! Does it help that I'm wearing flares?
<mind boggles watching image of 5' petitie female walking through a china
shop in 4' flairs>
Thankfully I'm neither that short nor in a china shop :-)
The hope bit I can sort of understand, but it seems to me that someone
I can't, after all, one has the chance to live a full life, there comes a
time when it is enough. Why continue it unless you know you will be able to
do greater good [a variable, but not for me, as in helping humanity up the
ladder of life]
So you support euthanasia? I'm torn on that one. It's hard when it's
one of your own asking.
who spends their live hoping is not actually *living*. It seems like a
wasted life to spend it looking forward to an afterlife when you can't
actually be sure that there *is* an afterlife. It's like making a
choice between enjoying life now, or hoping that we might have a
chance to enjoy it later.
It is called chasing the chimera, or if you have read/seen the Wizard of
Oz, the man behind the curtain.
No one can't prove it does not exist, so some hope for a better life rather
than work towards a better life.
Yes, maybe there is that element of laziness in it!
Then I'd have to raise an army and murder them en masse! Hang on, this
is starting to sound familiar...
You noticed. Good on you.
Religious violence is hard to miss. I was reading about witch hunts in
Africa recently. Horrible stuff.
heresy and get other people to burn them. That seems to work pretty
well.
Ah yes, In the Name of God. Problem is nowadays, they actually have whole
society's that just won't co-operate anymore.
The nerve of people.
I know! It's disgusting. Using their free will like that! We should be
ashamed of ourselves.
I for one refuse to bow my head when I have done nothing to be ashamed of,
such as thinking & teaching my children [with the help of some great
lady's] to think for themselves.
I don't understand how people can *not* think for themselves. Fpr most
of the people I know, a fairly hefty quantity of drugs would be
necessary to remove their natural curiosity and desire to think and
know. Sacrificing that would be unthinkable.
Now a god like Ahone, that might not be to bad, he just ignores humans &
ends to what a god has to do, whatever that might be.
Interesting thought, that. What *would* you do if you were omnipotent?
I certainly wouldn't just sit back and do nothing, as the current
incumbent seems to be doing.
If I were impotent, can't say. Probably write a message in the heavens
like*get off your dead asses & tend to the problems you created by
yourself*. Couldn't really say though, I have a conscience & could never
bear to see all the needless suffering that this world has.
Would you be tempted to kick people's arses as well as correct stuff?
No, 3 years in Nam convinced me that wasteful abuse of human lives is not a
thing for me.
Not even if you think they deserve it?
I would. Be too hard to resist! First thing I'd do would be a slightly
altered version of the burning Bush ;-)
<dare'st I go there, best not I think>
Probably wise...
M
Take care & drop by anytime you are of a mind to, usually can be found in
alt.atehsim though I do monitor ARCB.
I like alt.atheism. It has a superb blend of cool people,
intelligence, astonishing stupidity and complete crackpots. It's very
entertaining :-)
Indeed, though I am one of the less educated there, I find that people are
willing to help me understand concepts that I can understand.
There are subjects I will never ken, but the majority of those folks that
could would try to help.
& unlike the mythology's of the world, those explanations would make sense
if I ever comprehended the subject.
Gods I comprehend, they make no sense in the world of today. But there they
are.
The xian pantheon has several though xians don't know it, for they are
never taught.
I suspect that to be true in all three of the revealed dessert religions in
particular.
Well there's good old Mr Satan for a start. He was one of the more
interesting Christian inventions, if a little unoriginal.
M
.
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| User: "walksalone" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus sacrifice is hardly a sacrifice |
02 Apr 2004 07:27:21 PM |
|
|
On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 00:58:26 +0000, Marguerita wrote:
follow up set to AA, no loner on topic for ARCB, in my POV.
On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 14:02:43 GMT, walksalone
<walksalone@dastardly.dirty.deeds.done.dirt.cheap.llc> wrote:
On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 13:28:20 +0000, Marguerita wrote:
On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 18:48:11 GMT, walksalone
<walksalone@dastardly.dirty.deeds.done.dirt.cheap.llc> wrote:
snip including prior attributes
Well, OK, just be more careful in the future. <G>
I will! Does it help that I'm wearing flares?
<mind boggles watching image of 5' petitie female walking through a china
shop in 4' flairs>
Thankfully I'm neither that short nor in a china shop :-)
I was recalling a young lady [40ish] I watched in Anchorage Alaska doing
just that. She worked there. It still boggles the mind.
The hope bit I can sort of understand, but it seems to me that someone
I can't, after all, one has the chance to live a full life, there comes a
time when it is enough. Why continue it unless you know you will be able to
do greater good [a variable, but not for me, as in helping humanity up the
ladder of life]
So you support euthanasia? I'm torn on that one. It's hard when it's
If the person wants it, & there are medical reasons, or to include simply
feeling worn out. I've known more than one elder that turned their face to
the wall. At least with euthanasia they have a chanced to leave with
dignity.
one of your own asking.
Don't low as I said all choices or decisions would be easy, but when it is
a 13 year old granddaughter [14 white man count] dying of leukemia, one
tends to think ending the misery is a good thing.
snip
No one can't prove it does not exist, so some hope for a better life rather
than work towards a better life.
Yes, maybe there is that element of laziness in it!
Maybe?
Then I'd have to raise an army and murder them en masse! Hang on, this
is starting to sound familiar...
You noticed. Good on you.
Religious violence is hard to miss. I was reading about witch hunts in
Africa recently. Horrible stuff.
Indeed, but you expect progress from people that have yet to separate
reality for primitive emotion driven fears? & this holds true in the
*civilized* world as well.
heresy and get other people to burn them. That seems to work pretty
well.
Ah yes, In the Name of God. Problem is nowadays, they actually have whole
society's that just won't co-operate anymore.
The nerve of people.
I know! It's disgusting. Using their free will like that! We should be
ashamed of ourselves.
I for one refuse to bow my head when I have done nothing to be ashamed of,
such as thinking & teaching my children [with the help of some great
lady's] to think for themselves.
I don't understand how people can *not* think for themselves. Fpr most
It is hard work, & think what the neighbors would say if you actually
didn't act like them. Oh the shame of it all, not being a goose step lock
step simpleton does have its rewards, as well as problems.
of the people I know, a fairly hefty quantity of drugs would be
necessary to remove their natural curiosity and desire to think and
know. Sacrificing that would be unthinkable.
But, IIRC, you are involved with a uni crowd, which is where people with a
strong sense of curiosity, & the time to devote to it, try to go.
The average citizen of the US can't even tell you how many articles are in
their Constitution & don't know, or care, that the Declaration of
Independence was a declaration of war.
Ignorance of anything not right in front of them is a good thing, they &
their leaders think.
snip
Interesting thought, that. What *would* you do if you were omnipotent?
I certainly wouldn't just sit back and do nothing, as the current
incumbent seems to be doing.
If I were impotent, can't say. Probably write a message in the heavens
like*get off your dead asses & tend to the problems you created by
yourself*. Couldn't really say though, I have a conscience & could never
bear to see all the needless suffering that this world has.
Would you be tempted to kick people's arses as well as correct stuff?
No, 3 years in Nam convinced me that wasteful abuse of human lives is not a
thing for me.
Not even if you think they deserve it?
Especially not, I could be wrong.
I would. Be too hard to resist! First thing I'd do would be a slightly
altered version of the burning Bush ;-)
<dare'st I go there, best not I think>
Probably wise...
Don't tell anyone, but I guess it right now & then, mostly then.
snip
The xian pantheon has several though xians don't know it, for they are
never taught.
I suspect that to be true in all three of the revealed dessert religions in
particular.
Well there's good old Mr Satan for a start. He was one of the more
interesting Christian inventions, if a little unoriginal.
Er, no, he was imported from The Zorasterian mythology when Kurash [Cyrus
to the majority of the world] gave the Jews, & other captives, the boot &
told them to go home.
Seems like Ezra's version missed the rest of the story.
M
Now really, I need to return to unexciting things as well as mundane
things, so let's cap this please?
walksalone who is not looking forward to tonight's reading. Time lines,
blargh.
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