| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Fredric L. Rice" |
| Date: |
07 Dec 2003 12:57:57 PM |
| Object: |
Re: LDS buys soul's nmes |
"Jim Beebe" <jbeebe@centurytel.net> wrote:
"Rebecca Hartong" <rhartong_deletethis@cox.net> wrote in message
news:BBF79B16.18B4E%rhartong_deletethis@cox.net...
I must have some Mormon relatives somewhere... Hm... I wonder if they'd be
willing to give me money for MY soul?
No. no...the Mormons want the names of dead people so that they can baptize
them posthumously, by proxy, as Mormons. They have these weird ceremonies
where the names of dead people are read off and at the same time a living
Mormon is dunked in a tub. A special tub with magic symbols. The dead person
is at that moment given a chance to become a Mormon. They don't advertise
this bizarre practice as non-Mormons don't look too kindly on it.
Often the cult uses children for this disgusting ritual.
---
Yes, George W. Bush is an unelected baby killing fascist dictator.
Those who are _against_ freedom call another's fight to be free
"terrorism."
.
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| User: "kristinelund" |
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| Title: Re: LDS buys soul's nmes |
07 Dec 2003 03:35:37 PM |
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I'm just one person. But I strongly object to the Mormon Church baptising
the dead. Its unethical and immoral. It lacks respect for the choices the
living have made.
"Fredric L. Rice" <FRice@SkepticTank.ORG> skrev i melding
news:vt6u5dn8s6euad@corp.supernews.com...
"Jim Beebe" <jbeebe@centurytel.net> wrote:
"Rebecca Hartong" <rhartong_deletethis@cox.net> wrote in message
news:BBF79B16.18B4E%rhartong_deletethis@cox.net...
I must have some Mormon relatives somewhere... Hm... I wonder if they'd
be
willing to give me money for MY soul?
No. no...the Mormons want the names of dead people so that they can
baptize
them posthumously, by proxy, as Mormons. They have these weird
ceremonies
where the names of dead people are read off and at the same time a
living
Mormon is dunked in a tub. A special tub with magic symbols. The dead
person
is at that moment given a chance to become a Mormon. They don't advertise
this bizarre practice as non-Mormons don't look too kindly on it.
Often the cult uses children for this disgusting ritual.
---
Yes, George W. Bush is an unelected baby killing fascist dictator.
Those who are _against_ freedom call another's fight to be free
"terrorism."
.
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| User: "Fredric L. Rice" |
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| Title: Re: LDS buys soul's nmes |
08 Dec 2003 09:55:45 PM |
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"kristinelund" <dolores_88@hotmail.com> wrote:
I'm just one person. But I strongly object to the Mormon Church baptising
the dead. Its unethical and immoral. It lacks respect for the choices the
living have made.
Ultimately it's a pointless ritual since it does nothing but abuse the
children they put through it. What do these children think of the sick
ritual after they leave the cult? Does it haunt them forever?
"Fredric L. Rice" <FRice@SkepticTank.ORG> skrev i melding
news:vt6u5dn8s6euad@corp.supernews.com...
"Jim Beebe" <jbeebe@centurytel.net> wrote:
"Rebecca Hartong" <rhartong_deletethis@cox.net> wrote in message
news:BBF79B16.18B4E%rhartong_deletethis@cox.net...
I must have some Mormon relatives somewhere... Hm... I wonder if they'd be
willing to give me money for MY soul?
No. no...the Mormons want the names of dead people so that they can baptize
them posthumously, by proxy, as Mormons. They have these weird ceremonies
where the names of dead people are read off and at the same time a living
Mormon is dunked in a tub. A special tub with magic symbols. The dead person
is at that moment given a chance to become a Mormon. They don't advertise
this bizarre practice as non-Mormons don't look too kindly on it.
Often the cult uses children for this disgusting ritual.
---
Yes, George W. Bush is an unelected baby killing fascist dictator.
Those who are _against_ freedom call another's fight to be free
"terrorism."
.
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| User: "Evergreen" |
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| Title: Re: LDS buys soul's nmes |
05 Jan 2004 10:40:41 PM |
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On 8-Dec-2003, (Fredric L. Rice) wrote:
"kristinelund" <dolores_88@hotmail.com> wrote:
I'm just one person. But I strongly object to the Mormon Church
baptising
the dead. Its unethical and immoral. It lacks respect for the choices
the
living have made.
Ultimately it's a pointless ritual since it does nothing but abuse the
children they put through it. What do these children think of the sick
ritual after they leave the cult? Does it haunt them forever?
Speaking as someone who was raised in that church, I'd have to say "not
really." I don't appreciate that I was forced to do baptisms for the dead,
as are almost all LDS youth, but why would I blame myself, when I was so
young and really had no choice? It's something unusual that I was compelled
to do in my youth. I'm not proud of it, but neither am I ashamed.
"Sick ritual?" Yes, in principle, and psychologically as well, but an honest
accounting of world religions would find virtually countless other "sick
rituals" other than those of the Mormons. The practice of baptism for the
dead is bizarre and illogical. (e.g. Assuming you actually believe in the
validity of the practice, what about the billions of people who have lived,
but of whom the LDS church will never have any record of? I'm sure they've
got some convenient answer for logical questions like that one.) Again,
however, there are rituals associated with other religions which I think are
equally, if not far more bizarre, not that I'm defending the Mormon baptisms
for the dead.
For many years I harbored anger at the church for a number of perfectly
valid reasons. When I re-visit my memories of certain things that were said
and done by church "authorities," it can still make my blood boil. But I was
fortunate to have moved on at an early age, and with time was able to put
most of my resentments behind me. This is the sort of thing that anyone
coping with childhood indoctrination into a non-mainstream belief system
would have to deal with. In my case, I wouldn't say that I'm forever
"haunted." I don't resent that I received a basically good moral foundation,
sense of community, sense of the importance of family, and such. When I
chose to leave the church as a teenager, there were psychological abuses by
my former bishop and his associates that never should have happened. Because
the transition was so difficult, and because I didn't intend to hurt my
family, I was more passive about what happened than I should have been. I
should have told the lying, hypocritical, abusive creeps off and refused to
deal with them at all. My sense is that they know well enough to stay away
from me at this point. In any event, it's those things I'm (admittedly
non-specifically) referring to that I remain angry about more than the
things I was forced to do as part of the religious practice. I don't blame
myself, I blame them, the "authorities" of my ward. After all, I was the
child, and they were the adults. That was clear to me then as it is now. I
don't believe that baptisms for the dead, strange though they be, scar
people any more than any number of Christian rituals. It's just a weird
memory.
_______________________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
<><><><><><><> The Worlds Uncensored News Source <><><><><><><><>
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| User: "Barbara_Schwarz" |
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| Title: Re: LDS buys soul's nmes |
06 Jan 2004 01:59:32 PM |
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"Evergreen" <eg@nowhere.not> wrote in message news:<3ffa3c49$1_2@cosmos.uncensored-news.com>...
On 8-Dec-2003, (Fredric L. Rice) wrote:
"kristinelund" <dolores_88@hotmail.com> wrote:
I'm just one person. But I strongly object to the Mormon Church
baptising
the dead. Its unethical and immoral. It lacks respect for the choices
the
living have made.
Ultimately it's a pointless ritual since it does nothing but abuse the
children they put through it. What do these children think of the sick
ritual after they leave the cult? Does it haunt them forever?
Speaking as someone who was raised in that church, I'd have to say "not
really." I don't appreciate that I was forced to do baptisms for the dead,
as are almost all LDS youth, but why would I blame myself, when I was so
young and really had no choice? It's something unusual that I was compelled
to do in my youth. I'm not proud of it, but neither am I ashamed.
Funny, when I first performed "baptisms for the dead" in the Seattle
Temple in Bellevue, I found it amusing that I could hardly stand up in
the font because the floor of the font was so slippery from untold
bodily residue & oil that sat on the font's bottom. The top of the
water was rife with body oils and crud from many of those before me
that did baptisms.
Too bad, the City, County and State Health Department's didn't have
some policy regarding these fonts - they'd have a field day writing
out violations of health codes.
For anyone that doesn't know the process of a "baptism for the dead",
you are dunked (submersed) under water after every name is read off a
small video monitor by the font. The monitor lists the name of the
deceased and his/her date of death. Though it gets quite draining
being dunked under water 100-200 times an hour (depending on how
devoted you are to baptizing these dead people by proxy), it is even
more draining trying to stand up in a dirty font badly in need of a
water change. The fonts are free-standing tubs on sculptured oxen)with
stagnant water.They have to be drained, cleaned and re-filled with
fresh water.
Depending on what number you are in the hundreds of people that
perform these baptisms in the day, determines how much bodily fluids
and bacteria you are exposed to in the font. My "gift" for baptizing
260 dead people by proxy was pneumonia in my right lung and a 1-week
hospital stay.
BS
The
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| User: "Stormin Mormonn" |
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| Title: Re: LDS buys soul's nmes |
08 Jan 2004 11:45:55 AM |
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And the deceased still have the choice (in the next sphere) to choose or
reject the ordainance.
--
Christopher A. Young
Jesus: The Reason for the Season
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com
"kristinelund" <dolores_88@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:L2NAb.4130$n31.72982@news2.e.nsc.no...
I'm just one person. But I strongly object to the Mormon Church baptising
the dead. Its unethical and immoral. It lacks respect for the choices the
living have made.
.
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| User: "Fredric L. Rice" |
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| Title: Re: LDS buys soul's nmes |
08 Jan 2004 11:17:34 PM |
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"Stormin Mormonn" <cayoung61@hotmail.com.remove> wrote:
And the deceased still have the choice (in the next sphere) to choose or
reject the ordainance.
The unmitigated hatred and bigotry of the Mormon cult is exceeded only
by their sheer audacity.
---
CAUTION: Reading these Scientology "secrets" will give you pneumonia:
http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
http://w4u.eexi.gr/~antbos/XENU.HTM
And Saddam: http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/
"You should eat what you kill." -- Cannibal George W. Bush, KCBS, 1/Jan/04
.
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| User: "alt-hvac Moderated" |
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| Title: Re: LDS buys soul's nmes |
14 Jan 2004 02:48:09 PM |
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Guess I'll have to plonk you TWICE for that one?
--
Christopher A. Young
Jesus: The Reason for the Season
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com
"Fredric L. Rice" <FredR@SkepticTank.REMOVE.ORG> wrote in message
news:vvsecqba8qks49@corp.supernews.com...
"Stormin Mormonn" <cayoung61@hotmail.com.remove> wrote:
And the deceased still have the choice (in the next sphere) to choose or
reject the ordainance.
The unmitigated hatred and bigotry of the Mormon cult is exceeded only
by their sheer audacity.
---
CAUTION: Reading these Scientology "secrets" will give you pneumonia:
http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
http://w4u.eexi.gr/~antbos/XENU.HTM
And Saddam: http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/
"You should eat what you kill." -- Cannibal George W. Bush, KCBS, 1/Jan/04
.
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| User: "Joe Steve Swick III" |
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| Title: Re: LDS buys soul's nmes |
08 Jan 2004 11:25:41 PM |
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___FLR___
The unmitigated hatred and bigotry of the Mormon cult is exceeded only by
their sheer audacity.
----
Vicarious ordinances are a sign of unmitigated hatred and bigotry?
Oooookaaaay. LOL.
I would point out that all of Christianity posits a specific vicarious
ordinance performed by Jesus Christ, and no one is calling Jesus' act one of
"unmitigated hatred and bigotry."
Personally, I think FLR just liked the sound of those words, and was looking
for someone to pin 'em on! ;-))
JSW
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| User: "Fredric L. Rice" |
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| Title: Re: LDS buys soul's nmes |
10 Jan 2004 12:20:11 PM |
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"Joe Steve Swick III" <jswick@mindspring.com> wrote:
You "forgot" to quote the relevant bigotry. Here, allow me:
And the deceased still have the choice (in the next sphere) to choose or
reject the ordainance.
The unmitigated hatred and bigotry of the Mormon
cult is exceeded only by their sheer audacity.
Vicarious ordinances are a sign of unmitigated hatred and bigotry?
Oooookaaaay. LOL.
Aside from the cult's abject hatred of fags and blacks, and their
subjecation of women, the hatred and bigotry that cultists engage in
through their freakish ritual trying to "claim" people who have died
comes a close second in the cult's degree of hate and bigotry.
I would point out that all of Christianity posits a specific vicarious
ordinance performed by Jesus Christ, and no one is calling Jesus' act one of
"unmitigated hatred and bigotry."
Yeah, as if the Mormon cult is some how Jesus. As if the people who
_chose_ to follow the Jesus mythos are some how the equal to a bunch of
hate mongering bigots who engage in the unmitigated presumation of
stealing dead people from their chosen cults.
If the top three cults for hatred and bigotry were to be enumerated, the
Mormon cult would certainly be there, right up along side Fred Phelps
and Pat Robertson.
---
CAUTION: Reading these Scientology "secrets" will give you pneumonia:
http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
http://w4u.eexi.gr/~antbos/XENU.HTM
And Saddam: http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/
"You should eat what you kill." -- Cannibal George W. Bush, KCBS, 1/Jan/04
.
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| User: "Joe Steve Swick III" |
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| Title: Re: LDS buys soul's nmes |
10 Jan 2004 07:02:25 PM |
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___FLR___
You "forgot" to quote the relevant bigotry. Here, allow me:
"And the deceased still have the choice (in the next sphere) to choose or
reject the ordainance. The unmitigated hatred and bigotry of the Mormon cult
is exceeded only by their sheer audacity."
-----
It is bigotry to believe that a person will have the choice in the World to
Come as to their religious affiliation? Hmmm. Oookay.... if you say so.
Sounds rather charitable to me. AFAICT, if Mormons turn out to be right,
folks still have a choice. If Mormons turn out to be wrong, then proxy
ordinances make no difference one way or the other.
___JSW___
Vicarious ordinances are a sign of unmitigated hatred and bigotry?
Oooookaaaay. LOL.
___FLR___
Aside from the cult's abject hatred of fags and blacks,
----
HOLD UP! Quit flip-flopping issues. As I recall, this thread was about how
vicarious ordinances were a sign of unmitigated hatred and bigotry. I insist
that such ordinances are NOT inherently motivated by hatred or bigotry, and
your argument does not in any way demonstrate that they are. You have not
proven your point, and so you have decided to trot out other issues not
related to the main topic.
Now that you have brought it up, I suppose I should answer. I don't hate
Gays or Blacks, "abjectly" or slightly, or in any way whatsoever. Perhaps
some folks in the Church do -- ferinstance, I've seen a few anti-Gay ranters
here on ALT.RELIGION.MORMON (you might wish to GOOGLE me, to see how I
responded to such bigots). Clearly, I am not one of those. I have close and
very dear friends who are Gay and Black.
Having said that, I would suggest that LDS teaching and values are in some
respects inconsistent with an active Gay lifestyle. However, that hardly
reduces to "abject hatred," unless one is already inclined towards a certain
kind of bigotry or religious fanaticism. BTW, unlike you, I'm not likely to
call any of my Gay friends "fags." Sheesh ... what planet did you beam in
from? FredPhelpsWorld?
___FLR___
and their subjecation of women
-----
Again, this has nothing to do with the initial posting, which was about the
supposed "bigotry and hatred" of performing proxy ordinances. I suppose that
is because you know you have a weak argument?
Again, since you bring it up: I've been married for about 20 years. I have 4
great kids, and my loving spouse has been a great support to me in difficult
times. Frankly, I could never repay the kindness she has shown me over the
years. I don't suppose my generally cheery family relations are a result of
the Church's or my "subjecation [sic] of women." In fact, my wife has a very
different religious focus than I do. She is exceedingly practical in her
religion: i.e., for her, religion is primarily a matter of what you DO. By
contrast, I tend to be heavy on the theoretical: for me, religion has
primarily been a system of beliefs. Far from some kind of "subjecation," my
relationship with my wife has been a learning experience for which I am very
grateful. Our differences have been a great benefit to me, and I'd like to
think my wife feels the same way. The point is that our relationship is very
different than some kind of "religious dominant/submissive" thing. I
couldn't even get my wife to drive around the block for me if she was
personally disinclined to do so; I seriously doubt that I could somehow
spiritually "subjugate" her.
___FLR___
the hatred and bigotry that cultists engage in through their freakish ritual
trying to "claim" people who have died
comes a close second in the cult's degree of hate and bigotry.
-----
Proxy ordinances are not a way of laying some kind of "claim" on a person --
either in this life or in the World to Come. As I recently said to
Biniyamin, matters of "conversion" are always properly left to the
individual. It would be absolutely wrong and contrary to the fundamentals of
Mormon teaching to ever force ANYONE -- living or dead!-- to adopt a single
Mormon religious obligation. Religious faith is entirely a personal matter,
and a choice for no other than the individual concerned.
To perform a proxy ordinance for a deceased Buddhist, Jain, Hindu, Jew,
Sikh, Moslem, Catholic, Protestant, Scientologist, Atheist or Troll is NOT
to "convert" that person, or in any way infringe upon their current
religious status as a deceased [nameyourthing]. I personally think that to
suggest that it DOES, is to largely misunderstand the nature and purpose of
Mormon vicarious work.
That fact notwithstanding, Latter-day Saints are encouraged to carefully
consider the feelings of living family members who were closely related to
the deceased before submitting a name for Temple work. I would not wish to
harm my good relationship with my extended family over whether or not
grandpa should have proxy temple ordinances performed on his behalf.
___JSW___
I would point out that all of Christianity posits a specific vicarious
ordinance performed by Jesus Christ, and no one is calling Jesus' act one of
"unmitigated hatred and bigotry."
___FLR___
Yeah, as if the Mormon cult is some how Jesus.
----
Uh.... Perhaps this is a news flash to you, but Mormons do claim to be
Christians, Fred.
___FLR___
As if the people who _chose_ to follow the Jesus mythos are some how the
equal to a bunch of hate mongering bigots
----
Your claim that Mormons are "hate mongering bigots" is an assertion not
supported by the facts in evidence, Fred.
___FLR___
.... who engage in the unmitigated presumation of stealing dead people from
their chosen cults.
------
Again, choice IS the issue. Conversion is a matter of the heart. No
Latter-day Saint believes that a person can ever, EVER be made a Mormon
"against their will," and a proxy ordinance of itself never, NEVER makes a
person a Mormon, your opinining to the contrary notwithstanding.
___FLR___
If the top three cults for hatred and bigotry were to be enumerated, the
Mormon cult would certainly be there, right up along side Fred Phelps and
Pat Robertson.
------
Ah! Another logical fallacy: this time guilt by association. Of course, this
one is funny, since Fred Phelps and Pat Robertson both HATE Mormons in a
serious way. FWIW, as a Mormon, I don't have a lot of good to say about Pat
Robertson or Fred Phelps, either -- and that's not just because they aren't
Mormons: it's because, IMNSHO, they really ARE bigots! BTW, that you mention
Fred Phelps as near kin to Mormonism after you yourself calle gays "fags"
earlier in this posting is ironic.
JSW
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| User: "Fredric L. Rice" |
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| Title: Re: LDS buys soul's nmes |
11 Jan 2004 10:03:29 AM |
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"Joe Steve Swick III" <jswick@mindspring.com> wrote:
You "forgot" to quote the relevant bigotry. Here, allow me:
"And the deceased still have the choice (in the next sphere) to choose or
reject the ordainance. The unmitigated hatred and bigotry of the Mormon cult
is exceeded only by their sheer audacity."
Can't you quote like a normal person?
It is bigotry to believe that a person will have the choice in the World to
Come as to their religious affiliation?
It's bigotry and hatred to label blacks as being "marked" as punishment,
and bigotry and hatred to deny fags equal rights under the law. But it's
also bigotry and hatred to pretend to steal people's "souls" after they're
dead and can't stop the hate filled bigots from engaging in their freakish
rituals that target them.
Obviously the dead don't make decisions; the bigotry is enacted against
the living -- to the point that various Jewish churches sued the Mormon
cult for their audacity.
---
CAUTION: Reading these Scientology "secrets" will give you pneumonia:
http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html http://w4u.eexi.gr/~antbos/XENU.HTM
And Saddam: http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/
"What were war crimes in 1945 is foreign policy in 2003."
.
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| User: "Joe Steve Swick III" |
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| Title: Re: LDS buys soul's nmes |
11 Jan 2004 01:47:16 PM |
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___FLR___
You "forgot" to quote the relevant bigotry. Here, allow me: "And the
deceased still have the choice (in the next sphere) to choose or reject the
ordainance. The unmitigated hatred and bigotry of the Mormon cult is
exceeded only by their sheer audacity."
Can't you quote like a normal person?
-----
No.
___JSW___
It is bigotry to believe that a person will have the choice in the World to
Come as to their religious affiliation?
___FLR___
It's bigotry and hatred to label blacks as being "marked" as punishment, and
bigotry and hatred to deny fags equal rights under the law.
-----
Well, since I don't believe and the LDS do not teach that Blacks are "marked
as punishment," and I assert that every individual --Gays included-- are
entitled to equal protection of rights under the law, I suppose that would
suggest no bigotry or hatred on my part. Not that these issues are even
peripherally related to the subject matter of this thread; rather, this is
an attempt by you to save your sorry and idiotic argument from the defeat.
___FLR___
But it's also bigotry and hatred to pretend to steal people's "souls" after
they're dead
-----
Since the Church does not pretend to steal peoples souls after they are
dead, I would suggest to you that proxy ordinances are not guilty of bigotry
or hatred on that score.
However, they ARE *subject* to the bigotry and hatred from uninformed
ranters such as yourself.
___FLR___
and can't stop the hate filled bigots from engaging in their freakish
rituals that target them.
-----
You have not demonstrated that LDS rituals are a manifestation of hate and
bigotry. You certainly haven't demonstrated that they are freakish. What is
freakish IMO, is your obsessive-compulsive need to attack something with
which you you clearly have not the slightest familiarity.
___FLR___
Obviously the dead don't make decisions
-----
Then, there you are! Quite obviously LDS ordinances cannot change a Jew into
a Mormon without the ability of the deceased to make a decision. Therefore,
your accusations about "soul-stealing" ect are errant nonsense.
___FLR___
the bigotry is enacted against the living -- to the point that various
Jewish churches sued the Mormon
cult for their audacity.
-----
Precisely HOW is an LDS proxy ordinance for a deceased individual some form
of "bigotry" against the living?!
Jews have sued Latter-day Saints for not keeping their promise re: proxy
ordinances for Holocaust victims. However, it seems pretty clear that the
Church was *very* conscientious in doing PRECISELY what it promised on this
score, and so I seriously doubt that this particular lawsuit is going to
amount to much. Well, it might amount to the kind of hay you are making of
it in this forum, but that's about it.
Cheers,
JSW
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| User: "alt-hvac Moderated" |
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| Title: Re: LDS buys soul's nmes |
14 Jan 2004 02:49:31 PM |
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Brother Swick seems quite normal to me.
--
Christopher A. Young
Jesus: The Reason for the Season
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com
"Joe Steve Swick III" <jswick@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:8LhMb.4507$1e.1459@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
___FLR___
Can't you quote like a normal person?
-----
No.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: LDS buys soul's nmes |
14 Jan 2004 10:33:42 PM |
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On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 15:49:31 -0500, "alt-hvac Moderated"
<alt-hvac@yahoogroups.com> posted in alt.atheism:
[top-posting and misquoting corrected]
"Joe Steve Swick III" <jswick@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:8LhMb.4507$1e.1459@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Can't you quote like a normal person?
Brother Swick seems quite normal to me.
He meant like this. Try using a real news client.
--
"If we really know Truth, we do not fear hearing falsehoods or half-truths; if we are not sure of the truth - we shudder and try to shout down every utterance." - A. J. Mims
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
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| User: "Joe Steve Swick III" |
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| Title: Re: LDS buys soul's nmes |
15 Jan 2004 11:32:18 AM |
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___FLR___
Can't you quote like a normal person?
___ALT-HVAC___
Brother Swick seems quite normal to me.
___AK___
He meant like this. Try using a real news client.
------
Unless I've somehow confused you, I'd suggest you'd do better to make
substantive argument on the CONTENT of my postings, rather than on my
formatting.
Cheers,
Joe Swick
Heretic
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| User: "Fredric L. Rice" |
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| Title: Re: LDS buys soul's nmes |
15 Jan 2004 11:50:07 PM |
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"Joe Steve Swick III" <jswick@mindspring.com> wrote:
___FLR___
Can't you quote like a normal person?
___ALT-HVAC___
Brother Swick seems quite normal to me.
___AK___
He meant like this. Try using a real news client.
------
Unless I've somehow confused you, I'd suggest you'd do better to make
substantive argument on the CONTENT of my postings, rather than on my
formatting.
Since you can't quote properly any unfounded claims you make aren't
worth picking through to try to discern what you're trying to quote on.
What's the matter? Is Usenet too hard for you to figure out how
to use properly?
---
CAUTION: Reading these Scientology "secrets" will give you pneumonia:
http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html http://w4u.eexi.gr/~antbos/XENU.HTM
And Saddam: http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/
"What were war crimes in 1945 is foreign policy in 2003."
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| User: "Joe Steve Swick III" |
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| Title: Re: LDS buys soul's nmes |
16 Jan 2004 01:28:03 AM |
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___FLR___
Can't you quote like a normal person?
___ALT-HVAC___
Brother Swick seems quite normal to me.
___AK___
He meant like this. Try using a real news client.
___JSW___
Unless I've somehow confused you, I'd suggest you'd do better to make
substantive argument on the CONTENT of my postings, rather than on my
formatting.
___AK___
Since you can't quote properly any unfounded claims you make aren't worth
picking through to try to discern what you're trying to quote on.
What's the matter? Is Usenet too hard for you to figure out how to use
properly?
---
LOL! Apparently Freddy's shootin' blanks.
But thanks for playin' anyway, Freddy.
<plonk>
JSW
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| User: "Fredric L. Rice" |
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| Title: Re: LDS buys soul's nmes |
17 Jan 2004 02:38:18 PM |
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"Joe Steve Swick III" <jswick@mindspring.com> wrote:
___FLR___
Can't you quote like a normal person?
Either quote normally or be ignored.
---
CAUTION: Reading these Scientology "secrets" will give you pneumonia:
http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html http://w4u.eexi.gr/~antbos/XENU.HTM
And Saddam: http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/
"What were war crimes in 1945 is foreign policy in 2003."
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| User: "Dr. Desertphile" |
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| Title: Re: LDS buys soul's nmes |
08 Jan 2004 02:59:58 PM |
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On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 12:45:55 -0500, "Stormin Mormonn"
<cayoung61@hotmail.com.remove> wrote:
And the deceased still have the choice (in the next sphere) to
choose or reject the ordainance.
How many "choices" can dead people make? How quickly they rot?
--
"To the bat tank!" --- Tank Girl
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| User: "alt-hvac Moderated" |
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| Title: Re: LDS buys soul's nmes / choices after death |
14 Jan 2004 02:47:44 PM |
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When Jesus was dead for three days, he went and preached to the souls in
spirit prison. He musta preached for a reason -- he wouldn't have wasted his
time if they couldn't make choices.
--
Christopher A. Young
Jesus: The Reason for the Season
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com
"Dr. Desertphile" <desertphile@cchr.ws> wrote in message
news:btkgca$7v0es$2@ID-197010.news.uni-berlin.de...
On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 12:45:55 -0500, "Stormin Mormonn"
<cayoung61@hotmail.com.remove> wrote:
And the deceased still have the choice (in the next sphere) to
choose or reject the ordainance.
How many "choices" can dead people make? How quickly they rot?
--
"To the bat tank!" --- Tank Girl
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: LDS buys soul's nmes / choices after death |
14 Jan 2004 10:30:08 PM |
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On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 15:47:44 -0500, "alt-hvac Moderated"
<alt-hvac@yahoogroups.com> posted in alt.atheism:
When Jesus was dead for three days, he went and preached to the souls in
spirit prison. He musta preached for a reason -- he wouldn't have wasted his
time if they couldn't make choices.
You would be right - if it had really happened.
--
"I have never imputed to Nature a purpose or a goal, or anything that could be under-
stood as anthropomorphic. What I see in Nature is a magnificent structure that we can
comprehend only very imperfectly, and that must fill a thinking person with a feeling of
humility. This is a genuinely religious feeling that has nothing to do with mysticism."
- 1954 or 1955; quoted in Dukas and Hoffman _Albert Einstein the Human Side_, p. 39
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
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| User: "Joe Steve Swick III" |
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| Title: Re: LDS buys soul's nmes / choices after death |
17 Jan 2004 06:57:29 PM |
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___alt-hvac___
When Jesus was dead for three days, he went and preached to the souls in
spirit prison. He musta preached for a reason -- he wouldn't have wasted his
time if they couldn't make choices.
___AK___
You would be right - if it had really happened.
-----
This is the ALT.RELIGION.MORMON newsgroup. Mormons believe it happened.
Mormons testify of their belief in the death, burial and resurrection of
Jesus. You of course may disagree, as is your privilege. :-)
JSW
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: LDS buys soul's nmes / choices after death |
17 Jan 2004 10:52:55 PM |
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On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 00:57:29 GMT, "Joe Steve Swick III"
<jswick@mindspring.com> posted in alt.atheism:
___alt-hvac___
When Jesus was dead for three days, he went and preached to the souls in
spirit prison. He musta preached for a reason -- he wouldn't have wasted his
time if they couldn't make choices.
___AK___
You would be right - if it had really happened.
-----
This is the ALT.RELIGION.MORMON newsgroup.
"This" is alt.religion.scientology, alt.atheism and
alt.religion.mormon. At least know to which groups you're posting.
Mormons believe it happened.
Whoopie. So what?
Mormons testify of their belief in the death, burial and resurrection of
Jesus.
Who cares? If you want to post to Mormons, why are you posting to
alt.religion.scientology and alt.atheism?
--
Zymurgist # 2
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: LDS buys soul's nmes / choices after death |
17 Jan 2004 07:47:45 PM |
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On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 00:57:29 GMT, "Joe Steve Swick III"
<jswick@mindspring.com> wrote:
___alt-hvac___
When Jesus was dead for three days, he went and preached to the souls in
spirit prison. He musta preached for a reason -- he wouldn't have wasted his
time if they couldn't make choices.
___AK___
You would be right - if it had really happened.
-----
This is the ALT.RELIGION.MORMON newsgroup. Mormons believe it happened.
Mormons testify of their belief in the death, burial and resurrection of
Jesus. You of course may disagree, as is your privilege. :-)
This is the ALT.ATHEISM newgroup whare that is merely somebody else's
wacky religious belief.
I suggest you learn what cross-posting is.
JSW
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| User: "Joe Steve Swick III" |
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| Title: Re: LDS buys soul's nmes / choices after death |
18 Jan 2004 01:35:09 AM |
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___alt-hvac___
When Jesus was dead for three days, he went and preached to the souls in
spirit prison. He musta preached for a reason -- he wouldn't have wasted
his time if they couldn't make choices.
___AK___
You would be right - if it had really happened.
___JSW___
This is the ALT.RELIGION.MORMON newsgroup. Mormons believe it happened.
Mormons testify of their belief in the death, burial and resurrection of
Jesus. You of course may disagree, as is your privilege. :-)
___AK___
This is the ALT.ATHEISM newgroup whare that is merely somebody else's wacky
religious belief.
-----
And where, apparently, folks haven't yet learned how to properly spell out
their discontent. :-)
___AK___
I suggest you learn what cross-posting is.
-----
I didn't trim the headers on purpose, kimosabe. And to hell with
cross-posting: on with the crossdressing! Just lemme at my vidcam before you
start.
JSW
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: LDS buys soul's nmes |
07 Dec 2003 06:42:03 PM |
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On Sun, 7 Dec 2003 22:35:37 +0100, "kristinelund"
<dolores_88@hotmail.com> posted in alt.atheism:
I'm just one person. But I strongly object to the Mormon Church baptising
the dead. Its unethical and immoral. It lacks respect for the choices the
living have made.
It's a religion. Why would you expect anything better?
--
"I have never imputed to Nature a purpose or a goal, or anything that could be under-
stood as anthropomorphic. What I see in Nature is a magnificent structure that we can
comprehend only very imperfectly, and that must fill a thinking person with a feeling of
humility. This is a genuinely religious feeling that has nothing to do with mysticism."
- 1954 or 1955; quoted in Dukas and Hoffman _Albert Einstein the Human Side_, p. 39
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
.
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| User: "Desertphile" |
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| Title: Re: LDS buys soul's nmes |
07 Dec 2003 09:59:46 PM |
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On Sun, 7 Dec 2003 22:35:37 +0100, "kristinelund"
<dolores_88@hotmail.com> wrote:
I'm just one person. But I strongly object to the Mormon
Church baptising the dead. Its unethical and immoral. It
lacks respect for the choices the living have made.
The thing about being dead is: they are beyond caring about anything.
A few years ago I wrote to the LDS church in Salt Lake City telling
them that every week I baptise Joseph Smith and Brigham Young into the
Wiccan religion. They never wrote back to me thanking me.
--
http://desertphile.org
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| User: "AngryJohn" |
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| Title: Re: LDS buys soul's nmes |
07 Dec 2003 11:49:07 PM |
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On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 03:59:46 GMT,
(Desertphile) wrote:
On Sun, 7 Dec 2003 22:35:37 +0100, "kristinelund"
<dolores_88@hotmail.com> wrote:
I'm just one person. But I strongly object to the Mormon
Church baptising the dead. Its unethical and immoral. It
lacks respect for the choices the living have made.
The thing about being dead is: they are beyond caring about anything.
A few years ago I wrote to the LDS church in Salt Lake City telling
them that every week I baptise Joseph Smith and Brigham Young into the
Wiccan religion. They never wrote back to me thanking me.
Isn't all that digging and burying and digging and burying really
tiring? Not to mention the state of the corpses.
IIRC from my familial religion, a sect of the Joseph Smith Jr.
movement, baptism involves the actual immersion of the body into water
by someone ordained.
------------------------------
aa#2106
Remove Belief to reply
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| User: "John Popelish" |
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| Title: Re: LDS buys soul's nmes |
08 Dec 2003 10:27:31 PM |
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kristinelund wrote:
I'm just one person. But I strongly object to the Mormon Church baptising
the dead. Its unethical and immoral. It lacks respect for the choices the
living have made.
Do you pretend that babies who are baptized have made a choice to take
part in this ritual any more than these dead people have?
--
John Popelish
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| User: "jack_the_mormon" |
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| Title: Re: LDS buys soul's nmes |
06 Jan 2004 06:24:34 PM |
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John Popelish <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote in message news:<3FD54F65.A5D908AA@rica.net>...
kristinelund wrote:
I'm just one person. But I strongly object to the Mormon Church baptising
the dead. Its unethical and immoral. It lacks respect for the choices the
living have made.
Do you pretend that babies who are baptized have made a choice to take
part in this ritual any more than these dead people have?
FYI - Mormons don't baptize anyone younger than 8 years old. And it's
not the dead who are offended by baptism for the dead (obviously) -
it's the living. It lacks respect to the living families of the
deceased to use the names of their dead family members and pretend
that you're changing their religion in some imagined afterlife. It's
down right offensive (to the living). I agree with Kristine - it
lacks respect.
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