| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
02 Dec 2004 04:54:55 AM |
| Object: |
Re: (Mis)Interpretation of First Amendment |
Josh Rosenbluth <jrosenbluth@gotcha.comcast.net> wrote:
:|mclark wrote:
:|> Josh Rosenbluth <jrosenbluth@att.com> wrote:
:|>>
:|>>You are more than welcome to the crazy opinion that the States can
:|>>muzzle speech more than the federal government.
:|>
:|> I agree with the gist of what you are saying. But consider that I based
:|> my "crazy" opinion on Thomas Jefferson's examples of how the 1st and
:|> 10th Amendments work together to delegate/prohibit power. Jefferson
:|> pointed out that since the 1st Amendment prohibits only Congress from
:|> addressing religion, this power is automatically delegated to the
:|> States. His extracts are clear about this.
:|>
:|> Likewise, since the 1st Amendment prohibits only Congress from
:|> addressing speech, this power is automatically delegated to the States.
:|> But certainly the Founding Fathers wanted the States to use their power
:|> to address these issues in a way that cultivates religious expression
:|> and speech and not to restrain these basic freedoms.
:|
:|The key phrase being "wanted the States". We fought the Civil War to
:|change that "wanted" to "required" when it comes to states rights.
:|
:|>>>How can the 14th Amendment modify, revoke or do anything to the 1st
:|>>>Amendment since the 14th Amendment doesn't refer to the 1st Amendment or
:|>>>any language in the 1st Amendment?
:|>>
:|>>What do you think is meant by "privileges, immunities and liberty"?
:|>
:|> Thank you for your opinion. Please consider the following:
:|>
:|> "One of the amendments to the Constitution... expressly declares that
:|> 'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
:|> prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of
:|> speech, or of the press,' thereby guarding in the same sentence and
:|> under the same words, the freedom of religion, of speech, and of the
:|> press; insomuch that whatever violates either throws down the sanctuary
:|> which covers the others." --Thomas Jefferson: Draft Kentucky
:|> Resolutions, 1798. ME 17:382
:|
:|Which was written before the 14th, so I don't see your point.
He has no point. He is a self professed internet missionary, He is also a
internet troll and nut case. With regards to the above that is one of his
trolling posts as the following shows:
Do a google search on him and see how many times he has posted this same
drivel and been told buy dozens of others it is irrelevant. It doesn't
matter, he will post it again and again and again.
Here is a good start idon'treply and those whho replied back to him on
these topics (there are some duplications)
(1) Idontreply thomas Jefferson
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&q=idontreply%40toemail.com+thomas+jefferson&btnG=Search
Results 1 - 10 of about 734 for thomas jefferson.
(2.74 seconds)
(2) idontreply Jefferson: 2nd Inaugural Address, 1805. ME 3:378
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&q=idontreply%40toemail.com+Jefferson%3A+2nd+Inaugural+Address%2C+1805.+ME+3%3A378&btnG=Search
Results 1 - 7 of about 157 for Jefferson: 2nd
Inaugural Address, 1805. ME 3:378. (2.44 seconds)
(3) idontreply samuel miller
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&q=idontreply%40toemail.com+Samuel+Miller&btnG=Search
Results 1 - 7 of about 165 for Samuel Miller. (2.60
seconds)
(4) idon'treply To Rhode Island Assembly, 1801. ME 10:262
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&q=idontreply%40toemail.com+To+Rhode+Island+Assembly%2C+1801.+ME+10%3A262&btnG=Search
Results 1 - 5 of about 68 for To Rhode Island
Assembly, 1801. ME 10:262. (2.55 seconds)
(5) idon'treply Article XIV
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=idontreply+Article+XIV.+&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search
Results 1 - 4 of about 7 for idontreply Article XIV.. (0.41 seconds)
(6) idonttreply Just as basic reading skills tell us that the scope of the
1st
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&q=idontreply+Just+as+basic+reading+skills+tell+us+that+the+scope+of+the+1st&btnG=Search
Results 1 - 5 of about 13 for idontreply Just as basic reading skills tell
us that the scope of the 1st. (1.30 seconds)
(7) idontreply Again, Thomas Jefferson, Mr. "separation of church and
state himself,"
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&q=idontreply+Again%2C+Thomas+Jefferson%2C+Mr.+%22separation+of+church+and+state+himself%2C%22&btnG=Search
Results 1 - 10 of about 73 for idontreply Again, Thomas Jefferson, Mr.
"separation of church and state himself,". (2.02 seconds)
.
|
|
| User: "mclark" |
|
| Title: Re: (Mis)Interpretation of First Amendment |
02 Dec 2004 01:14:23 PM |
|
|
<buckeye-ELO@nospam.net> wrote:
Josh Rosenbluth <jrosenbluth@gotcha.comcast.net> wrote:
:|mclark wrote:
:|> Josh Rosenbluth <jrosenbluth@att.com> wrote:
:|>>
:|>>You are more than welcome to the crazy opinion that the States can
:|>>muzzle speech more than the federal government.
:|>
:|> I agree with the gist of what you are saying. But consider that I based
:|> my "crazy" opinion on Thomas Jefferson's examples of how the 1st and
:|> 10th Amendments work together to delegate/prohibit power. Jefferson
:|> pointed out that since the 1st Amendment prohibits only Congress from
:|> addressing religion, this power is automatically delegated to the
:|> States. His extracts are clear about this.
:|>
:|> Likewise, since the 1st Amendment prohibits only Congress from
:|> addressing speech, this power is automatically delegated to the States.
:|> But certainly the Founding Fathers wanted the States to use their power
:|> to address these issues in a way that cultivates religious expression
:|> and speech and not to restrain these basic freedoms.
:|
:|The key phrase being "wanted the States". We fought the Civil War to
:|change that "wanted" to "required" when it comes to states rights.
:|
:|>>>How can the 14th Amendment modify, revoke or do anything to the 1st
:|>>>Amendment since the 14th Amendment doesn't refer to the 1st Amendment or
:|>>>any language in the 1st Amendment?
:|>>
:|>>What do you think is meant by "privileges, immunities and liberty"?
:|>
:|> Thank you for your opinion. Please consider the following:
:|>
:|> "One of the amendments to the Constitution... expressly declares that
:|> 'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
:|> prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of
:|> speech, or of the press,' thereby guarding in the same sentence and
:|> under the same words, the freedom of religion, of speech, and of the
:|> press; insomuch that whatever violates either throws down the sanctuary
:|> which covers the others." --Thomas Jefferson: Draft Kentucky
:|> Resolutions, 1798. ME 17:382
:|
:|Which was written before the 14th, so I don't see your point.
He has no point. He is a self professed internet missionary, He is also a
internet troll and nut case. With regards to the above that is one of his
trolling posts as the following shows:
Do a google search on him and see how many times he has posted this same
drivel and been told buy dozens of others it is irrelevant. It doesn't
matter, he will post it again and again and again.
ROTFL!
Regarding "this same drivel," I've been quoting Thomas Jefferson for the
most part. Thomas Jefferson, Mr. "wall of separation" himself, is the
one who reflected that the 1st and 10th Amendments work together to give
the States the power to address religion while prohibiting this power to
the federal government. Here are his extracts - certainly not drivel as
buckeye-ELO is asserting - again:
-----
"In matters of religion, I have considered that its free exercise is
placed by the Constitution independent of the powers of the general
government. I have therefore undertaken on no occasion to prescribe the
religious exercises suited to it; but have left them as the Constitution
found them, under the direction and discipline of State or Church
authorities acknowledged by the several religious societies." --Thomas
Jefferson: 2nd Inaugural Address, 1805. ME 3:378
"I consider the government of the United States as interdicted by the
Constitution from intermeddling with religious institutions, their
doctrines, discipline, or exercises. This results not only from the
provision that no law shall be made respecting the establishment or free
exercise of religion, but from that also which reserves to the states
the powers not delegated to the United States. Certainly, no power to
prescribe any religious exercise or to assume authority in religious
discipline has been delegated to the General Government. It must then
rest with the states, as far as it can be in any human authority."
--Thomas Jefferson to Samuel Miller, 1808. ME 11:428
Also applicable:
"Our citizens have wisely formed themselves into one nation as to others
and several States as among themselves. To the united nation belong our
external and mutual relations; to each State, severally, the care of our
persons, our property, our reputation and religious freedom." --Thomas
Jefferson: To Rhode Island Assembly, 1801. ME 10:262
-----
Note that the above Inaugural Address and Miller extracts were written
AFTER Jefferson wrote his better known "wall of separation" letter to
the Danbury Baptist Church.
M. Clark
Here is a good start idon'treply and those whho replied back to him on
these topics (there are some duplications)
(1) Idontreply thomas Jefferson
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&q=idontreply%40toemail.com+thoma
s+jefferson&btnG=Search Results 1 - 10 of about 734 for
thomas jefferson. (2.74 seconds)
(2) idontreply Jefferson: 2nd Inaugural Address, 1805. ME 3:378
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&q=idontreply%40toemail.com+Jeffe
rson%3A+2nd+Inaugural+Address%2C+1805.+ME+3%3A378&btnG=Search Results 1 -
7 of about 157 for Jefferson: 2nd Inaugural
Address, 1805. ME 3:378. (2.44 seconds)
(3) idontreply samuel miller
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&q=idontreply%40toemail.com+Samue
l+Miller&btnG=Search Results 1 - 7 of about 165 for
Samuel Miller. (2.60 seconds)
(4) idon'treply To Rhode Island Assembly, 1801. ME 10:262
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&q=idontreply%40toemail.com+To+Rh
ode+Island+Assembly%2C+1801.+ME+10%3A262&btnG=Search Results 1 - 5 of
about 68 for To Rhode Island Assembly, 1801. ME
10:262. (2.55 seconds)
(5) idon'treply Article XIV
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=idontreply+Article+XIV.+&hl=en&btnG=Goog
le+Search Results 1 - 4 of about 7 for idontreply Article XIV.. (0.41
seconds)
(6) idonttreply Just as basic reading skills tell us that the scope of
the 1st
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&q=idontreply+Just+as+basic+readi
ng+skills+tell+us+that+the+scope+of+the+1st&btnG=Search Results 1 - 5 of
about 13 for idontreply Just as basic reading skills tell us that the
scope of the 1st. (1.30 seconds)
(7) idontreply Again, Thomas Jefferson, Mr. "separation of church and
state himself,"
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&q=idontreply+Again%2C+Thomas+Jef
ferson%2C+Mr.+%22separation+of+church+and+state+himself%2C%22&btnG=Search
Results 1 - 10 of about 73 for idontreply Again, Thomas Jefferson, Mr.
"separation of church and state himself,". (2.02 seconds)
.
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
