Religions > Atheism > Re: Mormon Faith -was- Re: 4/2 JC did NOT fulfil the messianic prophecies!
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Jeremy Winston" |
| Date: |
16 Feb 2004 09:37:29 AM |
| Object: |
Re: Mormon Faith -was- Re: 4/2 JC did NOT fulfil the messianic prophecies! |
bd4u wrote (excessive cross-posts; reply only to relevant groups):
[...]
If we are willing to wake up, God is willing to wake up us.
The Spirit of grace wants to disturb your sleeping,
blessed are you if you wake.
What a happy shiny self-delusion.
If you *really* want to wake up, just accept that we
invented all Gods in our own image, as a way to make
an uncaring & chaotic universe seem less awful and
more predictable.
Ain't no one here but us chickens.
-Jeremy
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| User: "Marvin" |
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| Title: Re: Mormon Faith -was- Re: 4/2 JC did NOT fulfil the messianic prophecies! |
16 Feb 2004 10:32:25 AM |
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"Jeremy Winston" <jbw@NOSPAM.ieee.org> wrote in message
news:Zs5Yb.13479$jx3.1633940@twister.southeast.rr.com...
bd4u wrote (excessive cross-posts; reply only to relevant
groups):
[...]
If we are willing to wake up, God is willing to wake up
us.
The Spirit of grace wants to disturb your sleeping,
blessed are you if you wake.
What a happy shiny self-delusion.
If you *really* want to wake up, just accept that we
invented all Gods in our own image, as a way to make
an uncaring & chaotic universe seem less awful and
more predictable.
Ain't no one here but us chickens.
-Jeremy
I think I'm living proof that the idea that people can will
themselves to believe is false for at least one person. I
tried desperately to believe and refused to consider any other
possibility for the first thirty years of my life, and even
after my mind could no longer avoid the fact that the
fundamentalist Christianity I had grown up with made no sense,
I continued to try to find God's truth. It took years before
I was able to admit to myself that religion and gods are
created by people in the effort to explain what we don't
understand, and truth is not a factor.
--
Marvin
To reply, burn off fog.
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| User: "Jeremy Winston" |
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| Title: Re: Mormon Faith -was- Re: 4/2 JC did NOT fulfil the messianic prophecies! |
16 Feb 2004 11:09:20 AM |
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Marvin wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
[...] Ain't no one here but us chickens.
I think I'm living proof that the idea that people can will
themselves to believe is false for at least one person. I
tried desperately to believe and refused to consider any other
possibility for the first thirty years of my life, and even
after my mind could no longer avoid the fact that the
fundamentalist Christianity I had grown up with made no sense,
I continued to try to find God's truth. It took years before
I was able to admit to myself that religion and gods are
created by people in the effort to explain what we don't
understand, and truth is not a factor.
Congrats on your awakening. I am curious--was there some
specific moment when you decided not to believe? Was there
a trigger that caused it?
-Jeremy
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| User: "Marvin" |
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| Title: Re: Mormon Faith -was- Re: 4/2 JC did NOT fulfil the messianic prophecies! |
21 Feb 2004 03:09:35 PM |
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From: Jeremy Winston (jbw@NOSPAM.ieee.org)
Subject: Re: Mormon Faith -was- Re: 4/2 JC did NOT fulfil the
messianic prophecies!
Newsgroups: alt.religion.mormon, alt.atheism
Date: 2004-02-16 09:09:21 PST
Marvin wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
[...] Ain't no one here but us chickens.
I think I'm living proof that the idea that people can will
themselves to believe is false for at least one person. I
tried desperately to believe and refused to consider any
other
possibility for the first thirty years of my life, and even
after my mind could no longer avoid the fact that the
fundamentalist Christianity I had grown up with made no
sense,
I continued to try to find God's truth. It took years
before
I was able to admit to myself that religion and gods are
created by people in the effort to explain what we don't
understand, and truth is not a factor.
Congrats on your awakening. I am curious--was there some
specific moment when you decided not to believe? Was there
a trigger that caused it?
-Jeremy
[above copied from Google: I occasionally check Google for
posts that I haven't seen and found yours today.]
There was no real decision, but there was a lengthy period
during which my wife and I tried desperately to cling to
belief. It had been clear to us for some time that the
fundamentalist Christianity we grew up with made no sense, and
we tried to find something that did. I can't be sure of our
exact words, but I remember a conversation we had about
twenty-five years ago. I said something like, "I'm afraid
we're atheists," to which she replied with a sigh, "I know."
Once we faced the fact, though, life became much simpler.
When we were in college we spent a summer of 1965 in Chicago
working with an organization called Teen Challenge. We held
"street meetings" and and canvased neighborhoods trying to get
drug users to agree to come to the center and kick their
habits through prayer. We endured terrifying nights of
"helping" and praying adicts through their withdrawals. We
heard a great deal about individuals whose drug use had
changed them to the point they were almost different people.
Then in psychology classes I read about people whose
personalities were changed as a result of accidental head
injuries. In the light of what we had been taught about human
souls, these things ate at the edges of our minds. We talked
with a number of ministers about it, but I couldn't get away
from the idea that somehow God had lost these people's
souls--impossible, yet how else could it be explained. I
suppose that nagging question was a trigger that forced me to
acknowledge other inconsistencies as I saw them. I can't say
exactly how it happened in my wife's mind, but we always
seemed to be in the same place when we discussed the matter,
which was nearly continuously for a number of years.
--
Marvin
To reply, burn off fog.
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