| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Jonathan" |
| Date: |
25 Aug 2004 07:40:06 PM |
| Object: |
Re: NASA DECIDES NOT TO EXPLORE THE DUNES!!! |
"chris" <mwalimu@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:un1Xc.12040$GW2.11935@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...
Here's what I don't get with you guys. Let's suppose that you are all
right. Endurance is a thermal vent. The dunes are mud. There are
fossils on the surface, there is life on Mars.
Why would NASA want to cover that up?
I doubt if the folks at Nasa would want anything but
the truth, but these decisions are make by politicians
with plenty of agendas to worry about.
Let me list just a few below....the code of silence from Nasa should
take on a new meaning given the recommendations from the
following study. An impressive panel of thinkers put this
paper together and these recommendations likely carry weight.
Given the religious convictions of the current President and the
huge issue of Islamic extremism, the issue of Meridiani most certainly
does not stand on it's own.
Also Nasa has two large missions in the works including the
sample return mission. Why spend all that money and years
on those missions if we figure it out .....now???
NASA Technical Memorandum
WORKSHOP ON
THE SOCIETAL IMPLICATIONS OF
ASTROBIOLOGY
FINAL REPORT
http://astrobiology.arc.nasa.gov/workshops/societal/societal_report.pdf
page 6
" .... it is extremely important for us to be highly knowledgeable
about the likely reactions of different constituencies (the press, various
religious groups, political leaders, and the general public).
We would be foolish and negligent if we did not study such reactions
well ahead of time and make state-of-the art preparations for major
discoveries. Carefully prepared plans should be in place very
soon, because evidence of extraterrestrial life could be found
at any time."
page 22
"Many people still fight the concept of Darwinian evolution, and some
people may be truly fearful of extraterrestrial life. Some of these people
may use their political clout to deter astrobiology. For people who
believe that they were created in God's image, discoveries of other life
forms could prove devastating and perhaps lead to violent reactions.
Astrobiology could replace the Cold War as a source of ideas and
controversies. This could continue for decades."
page 29
"The discovery may stimulate a worldwide resurgence in religious activity."
page 31
"At that point we will not have to undertake lengthy preparations before
we can collect the information that we need to "manage" contact
and plan for the post-contact world."
page 10
Action Items
"Establish a Circle of Consultants to assist the Steering Committee.
Comprised of known leaders within various fields, members of
the circle would draw the attention of the Steering Committee to........"
page 36
"One of the reasons for this is a sense of urgency: confirmation of extraterrestrial
life could occur at any time and in any of a number of ways.
When it occurs, we may have only limited control over the situation."
............................
"Control" is the key word in that entire paper. The day after the following
words were uttered by Nasa, the wall went up. Not one science release
or even conjecture over the observations have been made since.
"This is a profound discovery. It has profound implications for astrobiology,"
said Edward Weiler, NASA chief of space science, at a Washington, D.C.,
news conference. "If you have any interest in searching for fossils on
Mars, this is the first place you'd want to go."
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/03/24/MARS.TMP&type=science
The spheres are life, I'm certain of it. The half-truths from Nasa come one after
another. For example, did you know the hematite found at Meridiani is
generally formed only in ....hot.....water. Not once has Nasa ever mentioned
this fact.
Also, the famous blueberry-bowl spectra, the last spectra released, is a match for
bacterial stromatolites, the charts are below, look for yourself.
Then look at the pictures for a visual comparison.
Another example of Nasa's half-truths, how many times have you heard
Steve Squyres say that the rovers have no capability for detecting biology? That's
a lie I document farther below.
It's important to look at the credentials of the author of this study and
many of the others I'll quote below. He's the authority
in this field and in Mars geology/astrobiology.
.........................
Jack D. Farmer
"Currently, Jack is the Director and Principal Investigator of the NASA funded
Astrobiology Program at Arizona State University, he leads the NASA
Astrobiology Institute's Mars Focus Group and is on the Executive
Board of the NASA Astrobiology Institute. He holds appointments
on various NASA committees including the Space Science Advisory Committee,
Mars Exploration Program Analysis Group, Instrumentation for Mars Exploration
Working Group, Mars Ad hoc Science Team, Mars 2003 Landing Site Steering
Committee, Mars 2005 Orbiter Mission Science Definition Team......"
http://geology.asu.edu/jfarmer/biography/pro.html
Morphological Biosignatures and the Search for Life on Mars
"Determining the location of potential paleobiological repositories
on Mars requires an understanding of the martian surface in
terms of elemental abundances and mineralogy. This variety
of hematite on Earth forms only in the presence of large amounts of
water, and typically at elevated (hydrothermal) temperatures
(Christensen et al., 2000)."
http://geology.asu.edu/jfarmer/pubs/pdfs/morpho.pdf
A Bowl of Hematite-Rich 'Berries'
Mar 18, 2004
"This graph shows two spectra of outcrop regions near the
Mars Exploration Rover Opportunity's landing site.
The blue line shows data for a region dubbed "Berry Bowl,"
which contains a handful of the sphere-like grains dubbed
"blueberries."
Blueberry Bowl chart
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/mer2004/rover-images/mar-18-2004/captions/image-19.html
(Compare with the following spectra)
A Mossbauer investigation of iron-rich terrestrial
hydrothermal vent systems: Lessons for Mars exploration
Jack D. Farmer
NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, California
4. Siderite as a Component of an Ancient Stromatolite
"Mossbauer spectra at two temperatures of a freshly slabbed
portion of a 2.09 Ga (Early Proterozoic) hematic chert stro-
matolite from the Gunflint Iron Formation (PPRG 2443) are
shown in Figure 26. The high-velocity ferrous peak migrates
from its position at 100 K to overlap the fifth peak of hematite
at 19 K. This behavior and the agreement of the splitting pa-
rameters with those of siderite argue that this sample contains
a small fraction of siderite. (dominant siderite peak at -1090 cm-I).
The sample investigated was freshly slabbed for the Mossbauer
transmission measurement, so the iron carbonate is interior
to the native stromatolite rock. Its occurrence in this 2.09 Ga
old rock in- dicates that long (billion-year) survival times
for siderite are possible when preserved in silica."
Stromatolite Graph
(Fig 26, page 16)
http://geology.asu.edu/jfarmer/pubs/pdfs/mossbauer.pdf
The Stromatolites of Stella Maris, Bahamas
http://www.theflyingcircus.com/stella_maris.html
Endurance Crater
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/n/119/1N138744629EFF2809P1987R0M1.JPG
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/n/111/1N138039382EFF2600P1986R0M1.HTML
Compare the erosion pattern shown by the edge of the ...shadows... in these
pics below, it's hard not to accept these two pics show the same process....and
that the mudpot at endurance is fairly young.
Yellowstone mudpot
http://www.nps.gov/yell/slidefile/thermalfeatures/mudpots/midwaylower/images/05402.jpg
Endurance mudpot
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/pancam/2004-07-16/1P143185259EFF3221P2397R1M1.JPG
And some more info mostly from Dr Farmer, his publications page is rich in research
concerning this topic. Once you've read through them you'll see he expected
to find just what was found. But perhaps not so much of it.
The spheres are bacterial concretions, the layered rocks are stromatolites
or perhaps thermophiles, and these simple life forms cover an area
the size of Montana....literally.
http://geology.asu.edu/jfarmer/pubs/
It's a stunning find, I doubt if Nasa expected it, and their silence speaks volumes.
Hydrothermal Systems:
Doorways to Early Biosphere Evolution
ABSTRACT
"Hydrothermal systems may have provided favorable
environments for the prebiotic synthesis of
organic compounds necessary for life and may also
have been a site for life's origin . They could also have
provided a refuge for thermophilic (heat-loving)
microorganisms during late, giant-impact events.
Phylogenetic information encoded in the genomes of
extant thermophiles provides important clues about
this early period of biosphere development that are
broadly consistent with geological evidence for Archean
environments . Hydrothermal environments often
exhibit high rates of mineralization, which favors
microbial fossilization."
http://geology.asu.edu/jfarmer/pubs/pdfs/gsa.pdf
"It is this common association of microbes and iron
deposition on earth that has spurred hopes that robot
crafts exploring the hematite anomaly of Mars' Meridiani
Planum might find evidence for ancient life. The
hematite deposits of Meridiani Planum [7], regardless of
their exact origin, are considered to be a favorable host
for microorganisms that might have been associated
with their formation [8]."
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2004/pdf/1369.pdf
A Mossbauer investigation of iron-rich terrestrial
hydrothermal vent systems: Lessons for Mars exploration
"While a high-temperature origin for terrestrial life is still
debatable, the high biological productivity and rapid
mineralization that are typical of thermal spring environments
make them particularly favorable places for the preservation
of a microbial fossil record. For this reason, hydrothermal
deposits are regarded as important targets in the exploration
for fossil evidence of ancient Martian life"
"Among the stated capabilities of the Mossbauer instrument is the
ability to detect "nanophase and amorphous hydrothermal Fe
minerals that could preserve biological materials" (S.W. Squyres,
http://astrosun.tn.cornell.edu/athena/mossbauer.html, 1998a).
Terrestrial hydrothermal springs, including deep-sea vents,
harbor complex ecosystems that have evolved based on nutri-
ents and energy supplied by the vent effluent. Importantly,
land-based spring systems also include photosynthetic (cya-
nobacterial) species. Previously, we reported results of a
Mossbauer investigation of samples (collected by J. C. Alt)
from submarine hydrothermal vents ("black smokers") in an
area of the East Pacific Rise [Agresti et al., 19941. The iron-
rich minerals were shown by scanning electron microscopy
(SEM) to be associated with bacterial filaments [Alt, 19881."
http://geology.asu.edu/jfarmer/pubs/pdfs/mossbauer.pdf
Microbolites in the Geologic Record
"Whereas internal morphology indicates the accretionary nature of stromatolite
growth, the external morphology of stromatolites can be used to infer hydrological
conditions in the environment in which the stromatolites grew. For instance, in
still-water environments, stromatolites will approximate a flat sheet, while in
more turbulent environments the stromatolites will consist of interlinked domes
or columns, with flat, linking mats between them."
http://www.geocities.com/earthhistory/newstrom.htm
Lamination as a tool for distinguishing microbial and metazoan
biosystems from inert structures
Conclusion:
"Lamination often indicates the presence of microbial or microbially
dominated biosystems. Furthermore, laminated structures are an
important borderline to distinguish micro and macroorganisms, although
such a distinction is relative. Both the presence and absence of
lamination are lawful phenomena based on the fundamental physical and
biological/biogeochemical principles."
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/lpi/scholz.pdf
Introduction
"At all scales of observation, problems often arise when trying
to distinguish between biological and inorganic features in the ancient
rock record. Stromatolites, defined as laminated biosedimentary fabrics
formed by the trapping and binding of sediments and/or
precipitation of minerals by microorganisms (Walter 1977),
are sometimes impossible to distinguish from finely laminated sediments
formed by inorganic processes"
http://geology.asu.edu/jfarmer/pubs/pdfs/taphon.pdf
USING COMPLEXITY ANALYSIS TO DISTINGUISH FIELD IMAGES
OF STROMATOLOIDS FROM SURROUNDING ROCK MATRIX
"Storrie-Lombardi et al [9] recently described a method by
which the biogenicity of stromatoloids may be judged using
complexity analysis. The complexity of a digital file can be
quantified using lossless compression algorithms which reduce
file size by identifying redundant information.
At this scale the stromatolite images exhibit minimal
variance in compressibility (17.8±2.5%) and are
significantly less compressible than the images of the
surrounding rock matrix (31.9±10.2%, p<0.009, student
T-test). The ? c value computed implies variation
of a target from the surrounding matrix more than two
sigma removed from what would be expected from the
variance attributable to a random, diffusion driven
system.
This method provides a detection methodology for
automated search campaigns and a first order analysis for
the biogenicity of the structures, using the ability of
the compressibility algorithm to capture the random
nature of abiotic sediment or the regular nature of a
biogenically controlled structure."
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2004/pdf/1414.pdf
Michael C. Storrie-Lombardi
NASA Astrobiology Institute
Jet Propulsion Laboratory
"The statistical analysis of stromatolites
presented here is based on the adoption of an approach
known to the Complexity research community as the
Compression and Diffusion (CD) method [1].
http://www.kinohi.org/pdf_files/NAI2003_Complexity.pdf
The State and Future of Mars Polar Science and Exploration
"The recent identification of putative shorelines in the northern plains
suggests that the water from these events may have contributed to one or
more ice-covered lakes or seas that may have collectively covered as
much as a third of the planet . These, and other lines of evidence, suggest
that Mars is water-rich and may store the equivalent of a global
ocean of water » 0.5-1 km deep as ground ice and
groundwater within its crust (Carr 1987)."
"Whether the early climate was warm or cold, the presence of
abundant water on the surface has profound implications for the
development of life. Indeed, given the intense impact and volcanic
activity that characterized the planet at this time, the development
of long-lived hydrothermal systems was likely widespread-
duplicating many of the important conditions that are thought
to have given rise to life on Earth (Farmer 1996)."
http://geology.asu.edu/jfarmer/pubs/pdfs/marspolarsci.pdf
Morphological Biosignatures and the Search
for Life on Mars
"In microbial communities, organisms exist in a common
EPS ("slime") matrix. These materials hold great taphonomic
importance because they can control aspects of the chemical
microenvironments that promote early diagenetic mineralization,
a key factor in microbial fossilization (Farmer, 1999). EPS
is known to bind a wide variety of metals in-
cluding Pb, Sr, Zn, Cd, Co, Cu, Mn, Mg, Fe, Ag,
and Ni (Decho, 1990, and references therein)."
"The concentration of these metals above background
levels presents an interesting possibility for the
detection of organisms even after organic mate-
rials have been degraded (Farmer, 1999; Conrad
and Nealson, 2001)."
http://geology.asu.edu/jfarmer/pubs/pdfs/morpho.pdf
TAPHONOMIC MODES IN MICROBIAL FOSSILIZATION
"In conjunction with other types of chemofossil evidence (e.g., isotopes and organic
biomarker compounds), spatial distributions of trace metals that are comparable
in pattern and scale to microbial cells and biofilms may provide additional
evidence for biogenicity .
A Mossbauer investigation of iron-rich terrestrial
hydrothermal vent systems: Lessons for Mars exploration
"While a high-temperature origin for terrestrial life is still
debatable, the high biological productivity and rapid
mineralization that are typical of thermal spring environments
make them particularly favorable places for the preservation
of a microbial fossil record. For this reason, hydrothermal
deposits are regarded as important targets in the exploration
for fossil evidence of ancient Martian life"
"Among the stated capabilities of the Mossbauer instrument is the
ability to detect "nanophase and amorphous hydrothermal Fe
minerals that could preserve biological materials" (S.W. Squyres,
http://astrosun.tn.cornell.edu/athena/mossbauer.html, 1998a).
Terrestrial hydrothermal springs, including deep-sea vents,
harbor complex ecosystems that have evolved based on nutri-
ents and energy supplied by the vent effluent. Importantly,
land-based spring systems also include photosynthetic (cya-
nobacterial) species. Previously, we reported results of a
Mossbauer investigation of samples (collected by J. C. Alt)
from submarine hydrothermal vents ("black smokers") in an
area of the East Pacific Rise [Agresti et al., 19941. The iron-
rich minerals were shown by scanning electron microscopy
(SEM) to be associated with bacterial filaments [Alt, 19881."
http://geology.asu.edu/jfarmer/pubs/pdfs/mossbauer.pdf
4. Siderite as a Component of an Ancient Stromatolite
"Mossbauer spectra at two temperatures of a freshly slabbed
portion of a 2.09 Ga (Early Proterozoic) hematic chert stro-
matolite from the Gunflint Iron Formation (PPRG 2443) are
shown in Figure 26. The high-velocity ferrous peak migrates
from its position at 100 K to overlap the fifth peak of hematite
at 19 K. This behavior and the agreement of the splitting pa-
rameters with those of siderite argue that this sample contains
a small fraction of siderite. (dominant siderite peak at -1090 cm-I).
The sample investigated was freshly slabbed for the Mossbauer
transmission measurement, so the iron carbonate is interior
to the native stromatolite rock."
(Fig 26 page 15, please compare with blueberry bowl chart)
http://geology.asu.edu/jfarmer/pubs/pdfs/mossbauer.pdf
A Bowl of Hematite-Rich 'Berries'
Mar 18, 2004
"This graph shows two spectra of outcrop regions near the
Mars Exploration Rover Opportunity's landing site.
The blue line shows data for a region dubbed "Berry Bowl,"
which contains a handful of the sphere-like grains dubbed
"blueberries."
Blueberry Bowl chart
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/mer2004/rover-images/mar-18-2004/captions/image-19.html
NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose!
"To make a long story short (I shall over-simplify for sake of
brevity), there is increasing evidence of the function of
bacteria in rock-forming and even in some sand-forming processes
(wherein bacteria serve to nucleate the growth of small silicate
crystals). On Earth, in formation of spherical concretions,
bacterial colonies and/or other organic matter infused with
bacteria nucleate crystalline silica growth. I suspect it would
likewise be the case where Mars was wet over extended periods."
"In the wet, mushy or 'muddy' environment, the resulting micro-
concretion slowly grows (sometimes incorporating or
encapsulating adjacent grains of silt or sand, sometimes simply
by crystalline growth from colloidally suspended silica
crystallizing and pushing adjacent silt ahead of its growth,
sometimes by a combination of the two processes), increasing its
diameter spherically across time. If conditions for the
bacterial colony's growth are episodic, one can sometimes see
(upon slicing the concretion) rather distinct concentric layers
of growth that formed the concretion, but where conditions for
growth are constant, the concretion may show a crystalline
pattern with virtually no concentric layering."
http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2004/mar/m03-035.shtml
Check out the concentric layer of growth on the sphere just to the left of bottom.
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/m/106/1M137593920EFF2208P2956M2M1.HTML
Geology?
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/m/105/1M137503553EFF2208P2956M2M1.HTML
Jonathan
s
chris in napa
Jonathan wrote:
"George" <George@george.net> wrote in message
news:SPQWc.27955$%n4.23185@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
"Jonathan" <j0nathan@home.net> wrote in message
news:7LednTKQdPQpSLbcRVn-pA@giganews.com...
"Ron" <baalke@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:d5786437.0408240722.66d4ee8f@posting.google.com...
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/status.html
OPPORTUNITY UPDATE: Opportunity Team Decides Against Dunes - sol 200-203,
August 23, 2004
.
Does anyone know if this means the dunes will not be explored....at all???
It's sand, man. Sand!!! :-)
Oh come on! Are you blind? It's clear endurance was a thermal vent
or hot spring. You don't see the mudpots, you don't see the geysers???
The crater was obviously filled with water/ice that has ablated away, leaving
behind the dune we see now. Those dunes should hold anything that might
have been floating around in endurance 'lake'.
I've looked at every type and class of dunes that I can that are found
on Mars. Not one even comes close to the endurance dunes. It is
unique and mysterious. It needs to be explored.
But, of course, if they do explore it the cover story that endurance
is an impact crater would crumble overnight.
Jonathan
s
s
Jonathan
.
|
|
| User: "Wally Anglesea" |
|
| Title: Re: NASA DECIDES NOT TO EXPLORE THE DUNES!!! |
25 Aug 2004 10:50:45 PM |
|
|
"Jonathan" <j0nathan@home.net> wrote in message
news:dtmdneEvj86sr7DcRVn-sQ@giganews.com...
"chris" <mwalimu@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:un1Xc.12040$GW2.11935@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...
Here's what I don't get with you guys. Let's suppose that you are all
right. Endurance is a thermal vent. The dunes are mud. There are
fossils on the surface, there is life on Mars.
Why would NASA want to cover that up?
I doubt if the folks at Nasa would want anything but
the truth, but these decisions are make by politicians
with plenty of agendas to worry about.
Let me list just a few below....the code of silence from Nasa should
take on a new meaning given the recommendations from the
following study. An impressive panel of thinkers put this
paper together and these recommendations likely carry weight.
Given the religious convictions of the current President and the
huge issue of Islamic extremism, the issue of Meridiani most certainly
does not stand on it's own.
Also Nasa has two large missions in the works including the
sample return mission. Why spend all that money and years
on those missions if we figure it out .....now???
You are right of course, and NASA doesn't have to struggle for budgets, and
none of the congressmen or senators would like any new employment in their
constituencies. Let's not forget that Boeing, Macdonnell- Douglas, etc
would be interested in any new works to get an inevitable cash injection for
the inevitable rush to get there in person. Lets not forget the positive
attention it would give the government, mired as it is in middle eastern
messes.
Yep. that makes sense.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Ron" |
|
| Title: Re: NASA DECIDES NOT TO EXPLORE THE DUNES!!! |
26 Aug 2004 11:09:05 PM |
|
|
"Wally Anglesea" <wanglese@spbigpondammersarevermin.net.au> wrote in message
news:p6dXc.7568$D7.5770@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
"Jonathan" <j0nathan@home.net> wrote in message
news:dtmdneEvj86sr7DcRVn-sQ@giganews.com...
"chris" <mwalimu@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:un1Xc.12040$GW2.11935@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...
Here's what I don't get with you guys. Let's suppose that you are all
right. Endurance is a thermal vent. The dunes are mud. There are
fossils on the surface, there is life on Mars.
Why would NASA want to cover that up?
I doubt if the folks at Nasa would want anything but
the truth, but these decisions are make by politicians
with plenty of agendas to worry about.
Let me list just a few below....the code of silence from Nasa should
take on a new meaning given the recommendations from the
following study. An impressive panel of thinkers put this
paper together and these recommendations likely carry weight.
Given the religious convictions of the current President and the
huge issue of Islamic extremism, the issue of Meridiani most certainly
does not stand on it's own.
Also Nasa has two large missions in the works including the
sample return mission. Why spend all that money and years
on those missions if we figure it out .....now???
You are right of course, and NASA doesn't have to struggle for budgets,
You're not thinking very clearly. Showing a project is worthwhile is the
way to get the funding. A sample return mission would be worthwhile
for answering the following primary questions. Is there life elsewhere?
And if so, just what kind of life. Two large questions, which would
you say is the most important?
The answer is easy, the first answers the ...Big Question...
....Are we alone? The second provides the nitty-gritty.
If the first answer is we are not alone, and that Mars is full of various
incarnations of bacteria, then the second becomes...well...interesting
only to those with far too much time on their hands.
Answering the first question, which we can do right now, takes
the steam out of answering the second since the BIG QUESTION
has already been solved. The projects then become far LESS
worthwhile and likely to enjoy generous funding.
Do you even think about these issues before speaking
you wormy little sprout of a gonad
and
none of the congressmen or senators would like any new employment in their
constituencies.
Quite right, Texas and Florida benefit nicely from preventing /cuts/ in
Nasa projects. Guess the last name of a current and former governor
of those states. Guess which state Bush needs most to win?
Let's not forget that Boeing, Macdonnell- Douglas, etc
would be interested in any new works to get an inevitable cash injection for
the inevitable rush to get there in person.
Oh yes you're correct. The world would beat the door down to
have a real live human go ....Touch the Face.... of bacterial mats...
....pond scum....and biosedimentary fabrics....yessiree!
The most profound revelations from this discovery are philosophical
and religious. Not... is that bacteria sulfate reducing or...iron?
Lets not forget the positive
attention it would give the government, mired as it is in middle eastern
messes.
Indeed, the extreme religious fanatics around the world would respond kindly
to the American Infidels announcing ....god is Dead...... Evolution rules!
Yes, that would help things out. Oh boy~
Nice try, but not this time.
Jonathan
s
Yep. that makes sense.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Wally Anglesea" |
|
| Title: Re: NASA DECIDES NOT TO EXPLORE THE DUNES!!! |
27 Aug 2004 03:10:50 AM |
|
|
"Ron" <Ron@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:pfWdnUNI8pusKLPcRVn-gA@giganews.com...
"Wally Anglesea" <wanglese@spbigpondammersarevermin.net.au> wrote in
message
news:p6dXc.7568$D7.5770@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
"Jonathan" <j0nathan@home.net> wrote in message
news:dtmdneEvj86sr7DcRVn-sQ@giganews.com...
"chris" <mwalimu@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:un1Xc.12040$GW2.11935@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...
Here's what I don't get with you guys. Let's suppose that you are all
right. Endurance is a thermal vent. The dunes are mud. There are
fossils on the surface, there is life on Mars.
Why would NASA want to cover that up?
I doubt if the folks at Nasa would want anything but
the truth, but these decisions are make by politicians
with plenty of agendas to worry about.
Let me list just a few below....the code of silence from Nasa should
take on a new meaning given the recommendations from the
following study. An impressive panel of thinkers put this
paper together and these recommendations likely carry weight.
Given the religious convictions of the current President and the
huge issue of Islamic extremism, the issue of Meridiani most certainly
does not stand on it's own.
Also Nasa has two large missions in the works including the
sample return mission. Why spend all that money and years
on those missions if we figure it out .....now???
You are right of course, and NASA doesn't have to struggle for budgets,
You're not thinking very clearly.
Far more clearly than you, evidently.
<SNIP>
The rest of your posting is just your usual mental gymnastics.
Go figure.
.
|
|
|
| User: "jonathan" |
|
| Title: Re: NASA DECIDES NOT TO EXPLORE THE DUNES!!! |
29 Aug 2004 08:59:11 AM |
|
|
"Wally Anglesea" <wanglese@spbigpondammersarevermin.net.au> wrote in message
news:e0CXc.9470$D7.4493@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
"Ron" <Ron@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:pfWdnUNI8pusKLPcRVn-gA@giganews.com...
"Wally Anglesea" <wanglese@spbigpondammersarevermin.net.au> wrote in
message
news:p6dXc.7568$D7.5770@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
"Jonathan" <j0nathan@home.net> wrote in message
news:dtmdneEvj86sr7DcRVn-sQ@giganews.com...
"chris" <mwalimu@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:un1Xc.12040$GW2.11935@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...
Here's what I don't get with you guys. Let's suppose that you are all
right. Endurance is a thermal vent. The dunes are mud. There are
fossils on the surface, there is life on Mars.
Why would NASA want to cover that up?
I doubt if the folks at Nasa would want anything but
the truth, but these decisions are make by politicians
with plenty of agendas to worry about.
Let me list just a few below....the code of silence from Nasa should
take on a new meaning given the recommendations from the
following study. An impressive panel of thinkers put this
paper together and these recommendations likely carry weight.
Given the religious convictions of the current President and the
huge issue of Islamic extremism, the issue of Meridiani most certainly
does not stand on it's own.
Also Nasa has two large missions in the works including the
sample return mission. Why spend all that money and years
on those missions if we figure it out .....now???
You are right of course, and NASA doesn't have to struggle for budgets,
You're not thinking very clearly.
Far more clearly than you, evidently.
It's hard for me to tell how clear your thoughts are, since
you've declined to explain the reasoning behind them. In
a debate I suppose this would be considered a default on
your part eh?
I still say that making the 'big' announcement now would take the
steam out of, not add to, the demand for future bug hunts.
Especially considering the esoteric nature of microbial life.
But predicting far into the future remains highly speculative
in any event. Since Nasa has their missions in hand, I suppose
the safe thing to do is not take any chances on ....changing...
the future they already have planned out so carefully.
Jonathan
s
<SNIP>
The rest of your posting is just your usual mental gymnastics.
Go figure.
.
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| User: "Terry Lynn Sadler" |
|
| Title: Re: NASA DECIDES NOT TO EXPLORE THE DUNES!!! |
31 Aug 2004 10:49:51 AM |
|
|
Jonathan,
AS you know http://www.xenotechresearch.com has been sharing what they have
found. Fossils and water and mud and everything that others seem to just
roll over. and talk about it with themselves. they will not nor will they
admit that they are wrong. NASA included. Why is NASA doing these things I
have no clue I don't see where it would benefit them in the least. but then
the GOVERNMENT is in charge. for a public service NASA has really let the
people down. in a big way too. I will not be surprised if some day shortly
people will just IGNORE them. I don't believe what they say anymore. and I
question the images they have let US the people that pay for all this see.
well what they want us too anyways.
and I don't subscribe to any theories at all only I want answers and I'm not
getting any only the two foot shuffle and I hate that dance.
http://www.xenotechresearch.com/skyfraud.htm interesting stuff ......
check out http://www.space.com...back issue was about the Hubble.......NASA
isn't looking very good . but then check it out yourself don't take my word
for it ........
and you others that stand their with the so called knowledge out there...I
have yet seen a good debate on here.......alot of flaming and that is it if
that is what you call debating then your all dead wrong.
look it up in the dictionary. as for my grammar I like it ...
"jonathan" <Jon@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:y9-dneZvOo2Uf6zcRVn-hg@giganews.com...
"Wally Anglesea" <wanglese@spbigpondammersarevermin.net.au> wrote in
message
news:e0CXc.9470$D7.4493@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
"Ron" <Ron@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:pfWdnUNI8pusKLPcRVn-gA@giganews.com...
"Wally Anglesea" <wanglese@spbigpondammersarevermin.net.au> wrote in
message
news:p6dXc.7568$D7.5770@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
"Jonathan" <j0nathan@home.net> wrote in message
news:dtmdneEvj86sr7DcRVn-sQ@giganews.com...
"chris" <mwalimu@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:un1Xc.12040$GW2.11935@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...
Here's what I don't get with you guys. Let's suppose that you are
all
right. Endurance is a thermal vent. The dunes are mud. There
are
fossils on the surface, there is life on Mars.
Why would NASA want to cover that up?
I doubt if the folks at Nasa would want anything but
the truth, but these decisions are make by politicians
with plenty of agendas to worry about.
Let me list just a few below....the code of silence from Nasa
should
take on a new meaning given the recommendations from the
following study. An impressive panel of thinkers put this
paper together and these recommendations likely carry weight.
Given the religious convictions of the current President and the
huge issue of Islamic extremism, the issue of Meridiani most
certainly
does not stand on it's own.
Also Nasa has two large missions in the works including the
sample return mission. Why spend all that money and years
on those missions if we figure it out .....now???
You are right of course, and NASA doesn't have to struggle for
budgets,
You're not thinking very clearly.
Far more clearly than you, evidently.
It's hard for me to tell how clear your thoughts are, since
you've declined to explain the reasoning behind them. In
a debate I suppose this would be considered a default on
your part eh?
I still say that making the 'big' announcement now would take the
steam out of, not add to, the demand for future bug hunts.
Especially considering the esoteric nature of microbial life.
But predicting far into the future remains highly speculative
in any event. Since Nasa has their missions in hand, I suppose
the safe thing to do is not take any chances on ....changing...
the future they already have planned out so carefully.
Jonathan
s
<SNIP>
The rest of your posting is just your usual mental gymnastics.
Go figure.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Jonathan" |
|
| Title: Re: NASA DECIDES NOT TO EXPLORE THE DUNES!!! |
08 Sep 2004 09:43:45 PM |
|
|
"Terry Lynn Sadler" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:z61Zc.17781$w_4.1980869@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
Jonathan,
AS you know http://www.xenotechresearch.com has been sharing what they have
found. Fossils and water and mud and everything that others seem to just
roll over. and talk about it with themselves.
To me, the only life I'm convinced Opportunity has found is limited
to bacterial forms. Stromatolites, bacterial concretions and perhaps
thermophiles. I seriously doubt if any of the pics show life beyond
single celled. I do believe, however, that Nasa has constructed a wall
around the science and has been dishing out, at best, half-truths.
Their repeated failure to mention that the hematite at Meridiani typically
forms in hot water is a glaring half-truth. Also for Nasa to claim that
Endurance in an impact crater is ridiculous even to a casual observer.
I'm convinced Nasa knows the significance of what they've found
and is deliberately hiding it.
Truth has a funny habit, it tends to out eventually. And when it does
Nasa will have to pay the piper in a loss of confidence by the public.
Which would be a shame imo.
But the bigger shame is that the discovery of the 'second genesis' is
one of the most magnificent discoveries of the human race. To not
share that discovery is ....literally....is a crime against humanity.
That is unacceptable under any circumstances.
This discovery holds within the promise of ending the tragic duality
between science and religion. To unite the two into ...one...consistent
and beautiful view of reality. The age-old conflict between science
and religion is the source of much of human misery and ignorance.
Even today, and every day, the papers drip with the blood of this conflict.
We deserve the Truth, this planet needs it.
Jonathan
s
they will not nor will they
admit that they are wrong. NASA included. Why is NASA doing these things I
have no clue I don't see where it would benefit them in the least. but then
the GOVERNMENT is in charge. for a public service NASA has really let the
people down. in a big way too. I will not be surprised if some day shortly
people will just IGNORE them. I don't believe what they say anymore. and I
question the images they have let US the people that pay for all this see.
well what they want us too anyways.
and I don't subscribe to any theories at all only I want answers and I'm not
getting any only the two foot shuffle and I hate that dance.
http://www.xenotechresearch.com/skyfraud.htm interesting stuff ......
check out http://www.space.com...back issue was about the Hubble.......NASA
isn't looking very good . but then check it out yourself don't take my word
for it ........
and you others that stand their with the so called knowledge out there...I
have yet seen a good debate on here.......alot of flaming and that is it if
that is what you call debating then your all dead wrong.
look it up in the dictionary. as for my grammar I like it ...
"jonathan" <Jon@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:y9-dneZvOo2Uf6zcRVn-hg@giganews.com...
"Wally Anglesea" <wanglese@spbigpondammersarevermin.net.au> wrote in
message
news:e0CXc.9470$D7.4493@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
"Ron" <Ron@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:pfWdnUNI8pusKLPcRVn-gA@giganews.com...
"Wally Anglesea" <wanglese@spbigpondammersarevermin.net.au> wrote in
message
news:p6dXc.7568$D7.5770@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
"Jonathan" <j0nathan@home.net> wrote in message
news:dtmdneEvj86sr7DcRVn-sQ@giganews.com...
"chris" <mwalimu@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:un1Xc.12040$GW2.11935@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...
Here's what I don't get with you guys. Let's suppose that you are
all
right. Endurance is a thermal vent. The dunes are mud. There
are
fossils on the surface, there is life on Mars.
Why would NASA want to cover that up?
I doubt if the folks at Nasa would want anything but
the truth, but these decisions are make by politicians
with plenty of agendas to worry about.
Let me list just a few below....the code of silence from Nasa
should
take on a new meaning given the recommendations from the
following study. An impressive panel of thinkers put this
paper together and these recommendations likely carry weight.
Given the religious convictions of the current President and the
huge issue of Islamic extremism, the issue of Meridiani most
certainly
does not stand on it's own.
Also Nasa has two large missions in the works including the
sample return mission. Why spend all that money and years
on those missions if we figure it out .....now???
You are right of course, and NASA doesn't have to struggle for
budgets,
You're not thinking very clearly.
Far more clearly than you, evidently.
It's hard for me to tell how clear your thoughts are, since
you've declined to explain the reasoning behind them. In
a debate I suppose this would be considered a default on
your part eh?
I still say that making the 'big' announcement now would take the
steam out of, not add to, the demand for future bug hunts.
Especially considering the esoteric nature of microbial life.
But predicting far into the future remains highly speculative
in any event. Since Nasa has their missions in hand, I suppose
the safe thing to do is not take any chances on ....changing...
the future they already have planned out so carefully.
Jonathan
s
<SNIP>
The rest of your posting is just your usual mental gymnastics.
Go figure.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Elroy Willis" |
|
| Title: Re: NASA DECIDES NOT TO EXPLORE THE DUNES!!! |
09 Sep 2004 08:30:46 AM |
|
|
Jonathan <jon@write.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Terry Lynn Sadler <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
Jonathan,
AS you know http://www.xenotechresearch.com has been sharing what
they have found. Fossils and water and mud and everything that others
seem to just roll over. and talk about it with themselves.
To me, the only life I'm convinced Opportunity has found is limited
to bacterial forms. Stromatolites, bacterial concretions and perhaps
thermophiles. I seriously doubt if any of the pics show life beyond
single celled. I do believe, however, that Nasa has constructed a wall
around the science and has been dishing out, at best, half-truths.
The above site is satire or a crank site, isn't it?
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://www.eapnews.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "chosp" |
|
| Title: Re: NASA DECIDES NOT TO EXPLORE THE DUNES!!! |
10 Sep 2004 07:59:41 AM |
|
|
"Elroy Willis" <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:vlm0k0letepoqu6j7shbavrf9nuihusas4@4ax.com...
Jonathan <jon@write.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Terry Lynn Sadler <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
Jonathan,
AS you know http://www.xenotechresearch.com has been sharing what
they have found. Fossils and water and mud and everything that others
seem to just roll over. and talk about it with themselves.
To me, the only life I'm convinced Opportunity has found is limited
to bacterial forms. Stromatolites, bacterial concretions and perhaps
thermophiles. I seriously doubt if any of the pics show life beyond
single celled. I do believe, however, that Nasa has constructed a wall
around the science and has been dishing out, at best, half-truths.
The above site is satire or a crank site, isn't it?
Not likely statire.
A crank site, at best.
.
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