| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"BTR1701" |
| Date: |
22 Jan 2006 02:15:05 PM |
| Object: |
Re: OT? Book of Daniel |
In article <L9RAf.66542$Xg2.4793@fe01.news.easynews.com>,
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=D0?= <mÃÐMÁ×¹@ÅsSrEmOvEr.çøm> wrote:
BTR1701 wrote:
In article <dqutd4$hfn$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>,
Pumba <pumba@muizenberg.org.za> wrote:
Jim Phillips wrote:
I'm not the one claiming that the god of the bible is all-loving.
God is Love.
That is what the Bible states. These are axioms.
It's not up for debate whether God is Love or not.
What is up for debate, however, is whether god is.
Prove he isn't.
Prove there isn't an invisible miniature three horned hippopotamus that
lives in your ear and protects you from harm.
If you can't prove it's not there, then it must be true, right?
The Bible presents it as an axiom.
Just because a book says something doesn't make it true.
Are you suggesting there's a form of communication that defaults to truth?
No, I'm saying that just declaring "it's true because the bible says so"
is a fallacious statement.
God can do whatever He likes. And you get to thank Him for it.
Or you get destroyed. Those are your options.
I haven't thanked any god for anything so far and I've strangely avoided
destruction.
Explain your existence retrospectively back from nothingness.
Why? Whether I can or can't, it certainly does nothing to prove the
veracity of your claims.
Here's the point that continually escapes you:
Your opinion, your analysis is irrelevant, if it runs contrary to God's.
It's amazing that this god is unseeable, untouchable, unsmellable,
unhearable and basically unprovable, yet so many people claim to know
exactly what it thinks at any given moment.
Not one person in the entire history of human existence has made that
claim. You are a liar.
Baloney. I've known people personally who have made that claim.
Of the two of us, the liar is most definitely the one who claims to know
what every person in the history of mankind has and has not said.
If you can't prove this sky-tyrant of yours even exists, why should I
take your pronouncements on what it wants and doesn't want as anything
other than fantasy?
You that uncertain of your own judgement that you have to ask why?
Not at all. I'm quite certain that there is no judgment. At least not by
the psychopathic sky-tyrant portrayed in the bible.
If you have a problem with someone with much greater power than you, what
do you do?
You go and try and reason with them. Then you discover that they reject
your arguments. What do you do next?
Reject them in return.
color yourself rejected
I can't be rejected by something that doesn't exist. I can no more be
rejected by your god than I can be rejected by Santa Claus or Wile E.
Coyote.
It all comes down to who has superior force.
So basically your argument is that I should love god because he can kick
my *****.
Well, let him kick my *****, then. Such a god doesn't deserve my love.
Such a god also doesn't have the time to kick the ***** of some
emotionally distressed pansy.
Well, fine. Then neither one of us will get in the other's way. Problem
solved.
.
|
|
| User: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=D0?=" |
|
| Title: Re: OT? Book of Daniel |
22 Jan 2006 05:31:40 PM |
|
|
BTR1701 wrote:
In article <L9RAf.66542$Xg2.4793@fe01.news.easynews.com>,
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=D0?= <mÃÐMÁ×¹@ÅsSrEmOvEr.çøm> wrote:
BTR1701 wrote:
In article <dqutd4$hfn$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>,
Pumba <pumba@muizenberg.org.za> wrote:
Jim Phillips wrote:
I'm not the one claiming that the god of the bible is all-loving.
God is Love.
That is what the Bible states. These are axioms.
It's not up for debate whether God is Love or not.
What is up for debate, however, is whether god is.
Prove he isn't.
Prove there isn't an invisible miniature three horned hippopotamus that
lives in your ear and protects you from harm.
invisible miniature three horned hippopotamuses don't create visible matter
If you can't prove it's not there, then it must be true, right?
How do you account for all the matter and energy that obviously is here?
Show me an example of any amount of matter that pops into existence
out of thin air.
The Bible presents it as an axiom.
Just because a book says something doesn't make it true.
Are you suggesting there's a form of communication that defaults to truth?
No, I'm saying that just declaring "it's true because the bible says so"
is a fallacious statement.
that takes faith.. faith based on a reality you apparently can't see
God can do whatever He likes. And you get to thank Him for it.
Or you get destroyed. Those are your options.
I haven't thanked any god for anything so far and I've strangely avoided
destruction.
Explain your existence retrospectively back from nothingness.
Why? Whether I can or can't, it certainly does nothing to prove the
veracity of your claims.
You're claiming the universe isn't even the result of a David
Copperfield trick and that matter just randomly pops into existence.
Sell it to me.
Here's the point that continually escapes you:
Your opinion, your analysis is irrelevant, if it runs contrary to God's.
It's amazing that this god is unseeable, untouchable, unsmellable,
unhearable and basically unprovable, yet so many people claim to know
exactly what it thinks at any given moment.
Not one person in the entire history of human existence has made that
claim. You are a liar.
Baloney. I've known people personally who have made that claim.
that's your problem
Of the two of us, the liar is most definitely the one who claims to know
what every person in the history of mankind has and has not said.
Proving you're not totally blind ain't gonna cut it..
If you can't prove this sky-tyrant of yours even exists, why should I
take your pronouncements on what it wants and doesn't want as anything
other than fantasy?
You that uncertain of your own judgement that you have to ask why?
Not at all. I'm quite certain that there is no judgment. At least not by
the psychopathic sky-tyrant portrayed in the bible.
Why go on living? Your life has zero meaning outside of a pension fund
and whatever children you pass on your meaningless existence to. What
difference would it make 50 years from now if you stepped off the
observation deck of a 100 story building today?
If you have a problem with someone with much greater power than you, what
do you do?
You go and try and reason with them. Then you discover that they reject
your arguments. What do you do next?
Reject them in return.
color yourself rejected
I can't be rejected by something that doesn't exist. I can no more be
rejected by your god than I can be rejected by Santa Claus or Wile E.
Coyote.
so you rejected God before He could reject you?
If you were once a Christian, you know it doesn't work that way.
It all comes down to who has superior force.
So basically your argument is that I should love god because he can kick
my *****.
Well, let him kick my *****, then. Such a god doesn't deserve my love.
Such a god also doesn't have the time to kick the ***** of some
emotionally distressed pansy.
Well, fine. Then neither one of us will get in the other's way. Problem
solved.
Not while you're alive. The moment you die, you're going to meet
reality.. and you know it.
.
|
|
|
| User: "BTR1701" |
|
| Title: Re: OT? Book of Daniel |
22 Jan 2006 08:05:31 PM |
|
|
In article <wBUAf.231496$VZ7.200387@fe09.news.easynews.com>,
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=D0?= <mÃÐMÁ×¹@ÅsSrEmOvEr.çøm> wrote:
BTR1701 wrote:
In article <L9RAf.66542$Xg2.4793@fe01.news.easynews.com>,
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=D0?= <mÃÐMÁ×¹@ÅsSrEmOvEr.çøm> wrote:
BTR1701 wrote:
What is up for debate, however, is whether god is.
Prove he isn't.
Prove there isn't an invisible miniature three horned hippopotamus that
lives in your ear and protects you from harm.
invisible miniature three horned hippopotamuses don't create visible matter
Neither does your imaginary sky-friend.
If you can't prove it's not there, then it must be true, right?
How do you account for all the matter and energy that obviously is here?
Show me an example of any amount of matter that pops into existence
out of thin air.
Quit anthropomorphizing the universe. Just because people are finite
doesn't mean the universe has to be.
It's fascinating that you religious guys declare that if the universe
exists it *must* have been created but when you're asked who or what
created your god, you say that it has always existed with no beginning
or end.
If it's possible for you to conceive of an infinite god, why is it so
hard for you to accept the idea that perhaps the same is true of the
universe: that it has always existed in one form or another. There
doesn't need to be a creator because it wasn't created. It always just
was.
The Bible presents it as an axiom.
Just because a book says something doesn't make it true.
Are you suggesting there's a form of communication that defaults to truth?
No, I'm saying that just declaring "it's true because the bible says so"
is a fallacious statement.
that takes faith..
No, it just takes logic and common sense.
Your holy book is no more true "just because" than are the holy books of
all the other religions.
Explain your existence retrospectively back from nothingness.
Why? Whether I can or can't, it certainly does nothing to prove the
veracity of your claims.
You're claiming the universe isn't even the result of a David
Copperfield trick and that matter just randomly pops into existence.
I made no such claim. Please quote me back the passage where I said this.
If you're going to put words in people's mouths, you should at least
make an effort to ensure they are the right words.
It's amazing that this god is unseeable, untouchable, unsmellable,
unhearable and basically unprovable, yet so many people claim to know
exactly what it thinks at any given moment.
Not one person in the entire history of human existence has made that
claim. You are a liar.
Baloney. I've known people personally who have made that claim.
that's your problem
No, it's yours, since it just proved you to be a liar.
Of the two of us, the liar is most definitely the one who claims to know
what every person in the history of mankind has and has not said.
Proving you're not totally blind ain't gonna cut it..
That doesn't even make sense. You claimed to know what every single
person who has ever lived has said. You're so full of *****, your eyes
are brown.
If you can't prove this sky-tyrant of yours even exists, why should I
take your pronouncements on what it wants and doesn't want as anything
other than fantasy?
You that uncertain of your own judgement that you have to ask why?
Not at all. I'm quite certain that there is no judgment. At least not by
the psychopathic sky-tyrant portrayed in the bible.
Why go on living?
Because I enjoy it, moron.
Your life has zero meaning outside of a pension fund
and whatever children you pass on your meaningless existence to.
So I would be so much more fulfilled if I did what? Dropped down on my
knees and heaped praises on an invisible celestial psychopath?
You crack me up.
What difference would it make 50 years from now if you stepped off the
observation deck of a 100 story building today?
The same difference if you stepped off with me. You being religious
doesn't imbue with some kind of intrinsic worth to the world that the
rest of us lack.
The world will be just as oblivious that you ever lived 50 years from
now as it will be for me. You going to church every week and singing
hosannas to your sky-boss or whatever you do won't change that.
If you have a problem with someone with much greater power than you, what
do you do?
You go and try and reason with them. Then you discover that they reject
your arguments. What do you do next?
Reject them in return.
color yourself rejected
I can't be rejected by something that doesn't exist. I can no more be
rejected by your god than I can be rejected by Santa Claus or Wile E.
Coyote.
so you rejected God before He could reject you?
No, I can't be rejected by something that doesn't exist. I thought I was
clear on that. Perhaps I should use words with less syllables?
It all comes down to who has superior force.
So basically your argument is that I should love god because he can kick
my *****.
Well, let him kick my *****, then. Such a god doesn't deserve my love.
Such a god also doesn't have the time to kick the ***** of some
emotionally distressed pansy.
Well, fine. Then neither one of us will get in the other's way. Problem
solved.
Not while you're alive. The moment you die, you're going to meet
reality.. and you know it.
Absolutely. I'll meet the same reality as you: the end. Poof. Gone.
The difference is that the idea of that happening doesn't bother me
much, while it absolutely terrifies you to the point where you have to
make up fairy tales just to sleep at night.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Watcher" |
|
| Title: Re: OT? Book of Daniel |
23 Jan 2006 12:04:05 AM |
|
|
"BTR1701" <btr1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:btr1702-2F17D2.21053122012006@news.giganews.com...
In article <wBUAf.231496$VZ7.200387@fe09.news.easynews.com>,
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=D0?= <mÃÐMÁ×¹@ÅsSrEmOvEr.çøm> wrote:
BTR1701 wrote:
In article <L9RAf.66542$Xg2.4793@fe01.news.easynews.com>,
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=D0?= <mÃÐMÁ×¹@ÅsSrEmOvEr.çøm> wrote:
BTR1701 wrote:
What is up for debate, however, is whether god is.
Prove he isn't.
Prove there isn't an invisible miniature three horned hippopotamus
that
lives in your ear and protects you from harm.
invisible miniature three horned hippopotamuses don't create visible
matter
Neither does your imaginary sky-friend.
If you can't prove it's not there, then it must be true, right?
How do you account for all the matter and energy that obviously is here?
Show me an example of any amount of matter that pops into existence
out of thin air.
Quit anthropomorphizing the universe. Just because people are finite
doesn't mean the universe has to be.
It's fascinating that you religious guys declare that if the universe
exists it *must* have been created but when you're asked who or what
created your god, you say that it has always existed with no beginning
or end.
Indeed. Indeed!
LOL with your earlier "invisible miniature three horned hippopotamuses"
analogy (I personally prefer "hippopotami", <g>). Well put.
People with muddled thinking processes often think that they could use
"everything has a cause" as an axiom to derive/justify the existence of
"God". When chastised harder by logicians, they would retreat and try to
rephrase it as "everything has a cause except the First Cause (aka, God)".
Of course, Russell pointed out a long long time ago how unsatisfactory it is
to accept this latter as an axiom in his lecture titled "Why I am not a
Christian" (http://www.users.drew.edu/~jlenz/whynot.html):
If everything must have a cause, then God must have a cause.
If there can be anything without a cause, it may just as well be
the world as God, so that there cannot be any validity in that
argument.
It is not surprising that a believer in a "God" with "omni-everything"
attributes must eventually resort to threatening non-believers repeatedly
with that tiresome rhetoric that those who do not heed are all going to
"hell". What else can they say really since logic is not on their side? <g>
People with muddled thinking, of course, refuse to see the severity of the
following logical indictments:
Omnipotence entails a logical contradiction.
Omniscience and "free will" entail a logical contradiction.
To believe in omnipotence (or omniscience with free-will) and to believe in
being able to carry out a rational discussion of it at the same time is the
hallmark of muddled thinking and should be condemned to repeat LOGIC101 ten
times. [Exercise for those LOGIC101-challenged people: Given any logical
contradiction (such as "1=2"), deduce that every person is "God".]
The only way to "enlightenment" is to give up rational thinking and logical
reasoning, plain and simple--like what the Zen followers do. To *preach* any
faith, first-and-foremost give up rational discourse and start threatening
people with brains left with a big stick.
<rest snipped>
Watcher
.
|
|
|
| User: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=D0?=" |
|
| Title: Re: OT? Book of Daniel |
23 Jan 2006 01:14:08 AM |
|
|
Watcher wrote:
"BTR1701" <btr1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:btr1702-2F17D2.21053122012006@news.giganews.com...
In article <wBUAf.231496$VZ7.200387@fe09.news.easynews.com>,
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=D0?= <mÃÐMÁ×¹@ÅsSrEmOvEr.çøm> wrote:
BTR1701 wrote:
In article <L9RAf.66542$Xg2.4793@fe01.news.easynews.com>,
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=D0?= <mÃÐMÁ×¹@ÅsSrEmOvEr.çøm> wrote:
BTR1701 wrote:
What is up for debate, however, is whether god is.
Prove he isn't.
Prove there isn't an invisible miniature three horned hippopotamus
that
lives in your ear and protects you from harm.
invisible miniature three horned hippopotamuses don't create visible
matter
Neither does your imaginary sky-friend.
If you can't prove it's not there, then it must be true, right?
How do you account for all the matter and energy that obviously is here?
Show me an example of any amount of matter that pops into existence
out of thin air.
Quit anthropomorphizing the universe. Just because people are finite
doesn't mean the universe has to be.
It's fascinating that you religious guys declare that if the universe
exists it *must* have been created but when you're asked who or what
created your god, you say that it has always existed with no beginning
or end.
Indeed. Indeed!
LOL with your earlier "invisible miniature three horned hippopotamuses"
analogy (I personally prefer "hippopotami", <g>). Well put.
People with muddled thinking processes often think that they could use
"everything has a cause" as an axiom to derive/justify the existence of
"God". When chastised harder by logicians, they would retreat and try to
rephrase it as "everything has a cause except the First Cause (aka, God)".
Of course, Russell pointed out a long long time ago how unsatisfactory it is
to accept this latter as an axiom in his lecture titled "Why I am not a
Christian" (http://www.users.drew.edu/~jlenz/whynot.html):
If everything must have a cause, then God must have a cause.
If there can be anything without a cause, it may just as well be
the world as God, so that there cannot be any validity in that
argument.
It is not surprising that a believer in a "God" with "omni-everything"
attributes must eventually resort to threatening non-believers repeatedly
with that tiresome rhetoric that those who do not heed are all going to
"hell". What else can they say really since logic is not on their side? <g>
People with muddled thinking, of course, refuse to see the severity of the
following logical indictments:
Omnipotence entails a logical contradiction.
Omniscience and "free will" entail a logical contradiction.
To believe in omnipotence (or omniscience with free-will) and to believe in
being able to carry out a rational discussion of it at the same time is the
hallmark of muddled thinking and should be condemned to repeat LOGIC101 ten
times. [Exercise for those LOGIC101-challenged people: Given any logical
contradiction (such as "1=2"), deduce that every person is "God".]
The only way to "enlightenment" is to give up rational thinking and logical
reasoning, plain and simple--like what the Zen followers do. To *preach* any
faith, first-and-foremost give up rational discourse and start threatening
people with brains left with a big stick.
LMAO -- very nice
<rest snipped>
Watcher
aka - Blake's little helper
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=D0?=" |
|
| Title: Re: OT? Book of Daniel |
22 Jan 2006 11:30:52 PM |
|
|
BTR1701 wrote:
In article <wBUAf.231496$VZ7.200387@fe09.news.easynews.com>,
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=D0?= <mÃÐMÁ×¹@ÅsSrEmOvEr.çøm> wrote:
BTR1701 wrote:
How do you account for all the matter and energy that obviously is here?
Show me an example of any amount of matter that pops into existence
out of thin air.
Quit anthropomorphizing the universe. Just because people are finite
doesn't mean the universe has to be.
It's fascinating that you religious guys declare that if the universe
exists it *must* have been created but when you're asked who or what
created your god, you say that it has always existed with no beginning
or end.
If it's possible for you to conceive of an infinite god, why is it so
hard for you to accept the idea that perhaps the same is true of the
universe: that it has always existed in one form or another. There
doesn't need to be a creator because it wasn't created. It always just
was.
I'll bite. Matter has always existed. There is no initial creation..
no intelligence whatsoever. The Big Bang happens and random chance
creates stars that spin off planets, an unknown number for which more
random chance launches abiogenesis. On our own planet, random chance
still favoring us to the tune of winning thousands of consecutive state
lotteries, abiogenesis couples with perfect leaps in DNA mutation-based
evolution to eventually spin out whole species that suddenly pop into
existence (no transitional fossils) -- hardly surprising since matter
itself somehow popped into existence unmentioned eons ago -- and here
we sit, not owing thanks to anything except your god.. random chance.
The Bible presents it as an axiom.
Just because a book says something doesn't make it true.
Are you suggesting there's a form of communication that defaults to truth?
No, I'm saying that just declaring "it's true because the bible says so"
is a fallacious statement.
that takes faith..
No, it just takes logic and common sense.
Your holy book is no more true "just because" than are the holy books of
all the other religions.
...none of which contain self-fulfilling prophecies, archeological
evidence to back them up, historical evidence to back up their
"characters", and the evidence of their 'god' performing miracles
in modern time.
Explain your existence retrospectively back from nothingness.
Why? Whether I can or can't, it certainly does nothing to prove the
veracity of your claims.
You're claiming the universe isn't even the result of a David
Copperfield trick and that matter just randomly pops into existence.
I made no such claim. Please quote me back the passage where I said this.
You believe it was David Copperfield?
If you're going to put words in people's mouths, you should at least
make an effort to ensure they are the right words.
...so much for giving you the benefit of the doubt
It's amazing that this god is unseeable, untouchable, unsmellable,
unhearable and basically unprovable, yet so many people claim to know
exactly what it thinks at any given moment.
Not one person in the entire history of human existence has made that
claim. You are a liar.
Baloney. I've known people personally who have made that claim.
that's your problem
No, it's yours, since it just proved you to be a liar.
Prove they claimed it.
Of the two of us, the liar is most definitely the one who claims to know
what every person in the history of mankind has and has not said.
Proving you're not totally blind ain't gonna cut it..
That doesn't even make sense. You claimed to know what every single
person who has ever lived has said. You're so full of *****, your eyes
are brown.
Makes perfect sense to someone who's not so full of themselves they
can't detect a humorous concession.
Read it again when your nerves aren't shot..
If you can't prove this sky-tyrant of yours even exists, why should I
take your pronouncements on what it wants and doesn't want as anything
other than fantasy?
You that uncertain of your own judgement that you have to ask why?
Not at all. I'm quite certain that there is no judgment. At least not by
the psychopathic sky-tyrant portrayed in the bible.
Why go on living?
Because I enjoy it, moron.
You're not even having fun now. Why not put a bullet through your head?
Your life has zero meaning outside of a pension fund
and whatever children you pass on your meaningless existence to.
So I would be so much more fulfilled if I did what? Dropped down on my
knees and heaped praises on an invisible celestial psychopath?
You crack me up.
Thanks. How can He be a psychopath if all we silly 'Xtians' believe is
He created us, gave us free will, and gave us a promise of eternal life?
What difference would it make 50 years from now if you stepped off the
observation deck of a 100 story building today?
The same difference if you stepped off with me. You being religious
doesn't imbue with some kind of intrinsic worth to the world that the
rest of us lack.
The world will be just as oblivious that you ever lived 50 years from
now as it will be for me. You going to church every week and singing
hosannas to your sky-boss or whatever you do won't change that.
50 years from now, I'll most likely (God willing) be in heaven floating
around with my little harp while you're screaming in agony remembering
this little conversation, helplessly trying to bat out flames all over
your continuously rejuvenating flesh while a giant worm swims around in
your rib cage eating your organs from the inside out. In between gasps
of sheer horror you'll wonder why, and then remember that not only were
you warned, but that you passed up a perfectly free gift.
If you have a problem with someone with much greater power than you, what
do you do?
You go and try and reason with them. Then you discover that they reject
your arguments. What do you do next?
Reject them in return.
color yourself rejected
I can't be rejected by something that doesn't exist. I can no more be
rejected by your god than I can be rejected by Santa Claus or Wile E.
Coyote.
so you rejected God before He could reject you?
No, I can't be rejected by something that doesn't exist. I thought I was
clear on that. Perhaps I should use words with less syllables?
Combine them into cohesive thoughts that at least mention evidence and
you'll be doing much better.
It all comes down to who has superior force.
So basically your argument is that I should love god because he can kick
my *****.
Well, let him kick my *****, then. Such a god doesn't deserve my love.
Such a god also doesn't have the time to kick the ***** of some
emotionally distressed pansy.
Well, fine. Then neither one of us will get in the other's way. Problem
solved.
Not while you're alive. The moment you die, you're going to meet
reality.. and you know it.
Absolutely. I'll meet the same reality as you: the end. Poof. Gone.
Hey.. you're just following what approximately 3.8% of the world's
population believes. That combined with the odds of everything you
believe about the spontaneous appearance of matter, etc.. proves
you must spend 90% of your salary on lottery tickets.
The difference is that the idea of that happening doesn't bother me
much, while it absolutely terrifies you to the point where you have to
make up fairy tales just to sleep at night.
Fear of _God_ is the beginning of wisdom. Why would anyone fear
non-existence?
.
|
|
|
| User: "BTR1701" |
|
| Title: Re: OT? Book of Daniel |
23 Jan 2006 05:43:05 AM |
|
|
In article <fSZAf.162775$pW2.117262@fe04.news.easynews.com>,
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=D0?= <mÃÐMÁ×¹@ÅsSrEmOvEr.çøm> wrote:
BTR1701 wrote:
In article <wBUAf.231496$VZ7.200387@fe09.news.easynews.com>,
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=D0?= <mÃÐMÁ×¹@ÅsSrEmOvEr.çøm> wrote:
BTR1701 wrote:
How do you account for all the matter and energy that obviously is here?
Show me an example of any amount of matter that pops into existence
out of thin air.
Quit anthropomorphizing the universe. Just because people are finite
doesn't mean the universe has to be.
It's fascinating that you religious guys declare that if the universe
exists it *must* have been created but when you're asked who or what
created your god, you say that it has always existed with no beginning
or end.
If it's possible for you to conceive of an infinite god, why is it so
hard for you to accept the idea that perhaps the same is true of the
universe: that it has always existed in one form or another. There
doesn't need to be a creator because it wasn't created. It always just
was.
I'll bite. Matter has always existed. There is no initial creation..
no intelligence whatsoever. The Big Bang happens and random chance
creates stars that spin off planets, an unknown number for which more
random chance launches abiogenesis. On our own planet, random chance
still favoring us to the tune of winning thousands of consecutive state
lotteries, abiogenesis couples with perfect leaps in DNA mutation-based
evolution to eventually spin out whole species that suddenly pop into
existence (no transitional fossils) -- hardly surprising since matter
itself somehow popped into existence unmentioned eons ago -- and here
we sit, not owing thanks to anything except your god.. random chance.
The Bible presents it as an axiom.
Just because a book says something doesn't make it true.
Are you suggesting there's a form of communication that defaults to
truth?
No, I'm saying that just declaring "it's true because the bible says so"
is a fallacious statement.
that takes faith..
No, it just takes logic and common sense.
Your holy book is no more true "just because" than are the holy books of
all the other religions.
..none of which contain self-fulfilling prophecies, archeological
evidence to back them up, historical evidence to back up their
"characters", and the evidence of their 'god' performing miracles
in modern time.
Neither does yours.
Explain your existence retrospectively back from nothingness.
Why? Whether I can or can't, it certainly does nothing to prove the
veracity of your claims.
You're claiming the universe isn't even the result of a David
Copperfield trick and that matter just randomly pops into existence.
I made no such claim. Please quote me back the passage where I said this.
You believe it was David Copperfield?
I made no such claim. Please quote me back the passage where I said
this. You're the one who thinks the entire universe is the result of
some kind of cosmic magic trick, not me.
It's amazing that this god is unseeable, untouchable, unsmellable,
unhearable and basically unprovable, yet so many people claim to know
exactly what it thinks at any given moment.
Not one person in the entire history of human existence has made that
claim. You are a liar.
Baloney. I've known people personally who have made that claim.
that's your problem
No, it's yours, since it just proved you to be a liar.
Prove they claimed it.
LOL! You've been caught in a lie and this is the best you can do?
Of the two of us, the liar is most definitely the one who claims to know
what every person in the history of mankind has and has not said.
Proving you're not totally blind ain't gonna cut it..
That doesn't even make sense. You claimed to know what every single
person who has ever lived has said. You're so full of *****, your eyes
are brown.
Makes perfect sense to someone who's not so full of themselves they
can't detect a humorous concession.
You've been caught in a lie and this is the best you can do?
If you can't prove this sky-tyrant of yours even exists, why should I
take your pronouncements on what it wants and doesn't want as anything
other than fantasy?
You that uncertain of your own judgement that you have to ask why?
Not at all. I'm quite certain that there is no judgment. At least not by
the psychopathic sky-tyrant portrayed in the bible.
Why go on living?
Because I enjoy it, moron.
You're not even having fun now.
Oh, yeah, I forgot. You religious guys know everything. Not only do you
know what every person who has ever lived has and has not said, you also
know the intimate details of my life, such that you can declare that I'm
not happy despite all evidence to the contrary.
Why not put a bullet through your head?
Because as an atheist, this life is all I have. On the other hand,
you've got heaven to look forward to, right? You should be eager to get
there, so it's you that should be eager to blow your own head off. Don't
let me stop you.
Your life has zero meaning outside of a pension fund
and whatever children you pass on your meaningless existence to.
So I would be so much more fulfilled if I did what? Dropped down on my
knees and heaped praises on an invisible celestial psychopath?
You crack me up.
Thanks. How can He be a psychopath if all we silly 'Xtians' believe is
He created us, gave us free will, and gave us a promise of eternal life?
Because if your holy book is to be believed, he's responsible for the
wanton genocide of entire peoples, where he specifically instructed his
armies to slaughter children.
All because they weren't slavering him with worship. The god of the
bible is just about the very definition of a psychotic narcissistic
complex.
What difference would it make 50 years from now if you stepped off the
observation deck of a 100 story building today?
The same difference if you stepped off with me. You being religious
doesn't imbue with some kind of intrinsic worth to the world that the
rest of us lack.
The world will be just as oblivious that you ever lived 50 years from
now as it will be for me. You going to church every week and singing
hosannas to your sky-boss or whatever you do won't change that.
50 years from now, I'll most likely (God willing) be in heaven floating
around with my little harp while you're screaming in agony remembering
this little conversation, helplessly trying to bat out flames all over
your continuously rejuvenating flesh while a giant worm swims around in
your rib cage eating your organs from the inside out. In between gasps
of sheer horror you'll wonder why, and then remember that not only were
you warned, but that you passed up a perfectly free gift.
I wonder if you actually comprehend how ridiculous you sound. Probably
not.
It all comes down to who has superior force.
So basically your argument is that I should love god because he can kick
my *****.
Well, let him kick my *****, then. Such a god doesn't deserve my love.
Such a god also doesn't have the time to kick the ***** of some
emotionally distressed pansy.
Well, fine. Then neither one of us will get in the other's way. Problem
solved.
Not while you're alive. The moment you die, you're going to meet
reality.. and you know it.
Absolutely. I'll meet the same reality as you: the end. Poof. Gone.
Hey.. you're just following what approximately 3.8% of the world's
population believes.
Yeah, just about 100% of the world once believed the world was flat,
also. Didn't make it true. In fact it was the 1% of the people who
turned out to be right, even though the religious people tortured and
killed them for saying so.
You guys have such a great track record with both accuracy and love...
The difference is that the idea of that happening doesn't bother me
much, while it absolutely terrifies you to the point where you have to
make up fairy tales just to sleep at night.
Fear of _God_ is the beginning of wisdom. Why would anyone fear
non-existence?
You tell me since you obviously do.
.
|
|
|
| User: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=D0?=" |
|
| Title: Re: OT? Book of Daniel |
25 Jan 2006 11:15:41 AM |
|
|
BTR1701 wrote:
In article <fSZAf.162775$pW2.117262@fe04.news.easynews.com>,
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=D0?= <mÃÐMÁ×¹@ÅsSrEmOvEr.çøm> wrote:
If it's possible for you to conceive of an infinite god, why is it so
hard for you to accept the idea that perhaps the same is true of the
universe: that it has always existed in one form or another. There
doesn't need to be a creator because it wasn't created. It always just
was.
I'll bite. Matter has always existed. There is no initial creation..
no intelligence whatsoever. The Big Bang happens and random chance
creates stars that spin off planets, an unknown number for which more
random chance launches abiogenesis. On our own planet, random chance
still favoring us to the tune of winning thousands of consecutive state
lotteries, abiogenesis couples with perfect leaps in DNA mutation-based
evolution to eventually spin out whole species that suddenly pop into
existence (no transitional fossils) -- hardly surprising since matter
itself somehow popped into existence unmentioned eons ago -- and here
we sit, not owing thanks to anything except your god.. random chance.
<nothing>
The Bible presents it as an axiom.
Just because a book says something doesn't make it true.
Are you suggesting there's a form of communication that defaults to
truth?
No, I'm saying that just declaring "it's true because the bible says so"
is a fallacious statement.
that takes faith..
No, it just takes logic and common sense.
Your holy book is no more true "just because" than are the holy books of
all the other religions.
..none of which contain self-fulfilling prophecies, archeological
evidence to back them up, historical evidence to back up their
"characters", and the evidence of their 'god' performing miracles
in modern time.
Neither does yours.
post proof
Explain your existence retrospectively back from nothingness.
Why? Whether I can or can't, it certainly does nothing to prove the
veracity of your claims.
You're claiming the universe isn't even the result of a David
Copperfield trick and that matter just randomly pops into existence.
I made no such claim. Please quote me back the passage where I said this.
You believe it was David Copperfield?
I made no such claim. Please quote me back the passage where I said
this. You're the one who thinks the entire universe is the result of
some kind of cosmic magic trick, not me.
exactly the original point, pinhead.. you claimed "that it has always
existed in one form or another. There doesn't need to be a creator
because it wasn't created. It always just was." i.e. you either believe
matter randomly pops into existence or worse.. that it was always there
from time infinitum. Two year old kids can grasp cause and effect yet
you re-write quantum physics, logistics, and the dynamics of matter and
energy to fit that hallucination you call reality.
It's amazing that this god is unseeable, untouchable, unsmellable,
unhearable and basically unprovable, yet so many people claim to know
exactly what it thinks at any given moment.
Not one person in the entire history of human existence has made that
claim. You are a liar.
Baloney. I've known people personally who have made that claim.
that's your problem
No, it's yours, since it just proved you to be a liar.
Prove they claimed it.
LOL! You've been caught in a lie and this is the best you can do?
lack of proof noted, liar
Of the two of us, the liar is most definitely the one who claims to know
what every person in the history of mankind has and has not said.
Proving you're not totally blind ain't gonna cut it..
That doesn't even make sense. You claimed to know what every single
person who has ever lived has said. You're so full of *****, your eyes
are brown.
Makes perfect sense to someone who's not so full of themselves they
can't detect a humorous concession.
You've been caught in a lie and this is the best you can do?
Always wanted to ask this of an atheist.. Are you 100% sure, no doubt
whatsoever, that there is no god? Not 99.99999%, but so solid a 100%
you'd stake you and your family's life on it?
If you can't prove this sky-tyrant of yours even exists, why should I
take your pronouncements on what it wants and doesn't want as anything
other than fantasy?
You that uncertain of your own judgement that you have to ask why?
Not at all. I'm quite certain that there is no judgment. At least not by
the psychopathic sky-tyrant portrayed in the bible.
Why go on living?
Because I enjoy it, moron.
You're not even having fun now.
Oh, yeah, I forgot. You religious guys know everything. Not only do you
know what every person who has ever lived has and has not said, you also
know the intimate details of my life, such that you can declare that I'm
not happy despite all evidence to the contrary.
What evidence? Your posting pattern alone suggests you don't have a
life, and I'm sure three minutes of Google diving would confirm it.
Why not put a bullet through your head?
Because as an atheist, this life is all I have. On the other hand,
you've got heaven to look forward to, right? You should be eager to get
there, so it's you that should be eager to blow your own head off. Don't
let me stop you.
Wish I could be there for ya pal.. the moment before your death.
You've heard about those people who die in the hospital and are
brought back after six or seven minutes ..the ones who were so
grateful they were brought back because they had instantaneously
descended into hell the moment they died. (Actually just a holding cell
until the Day of Judgement, where you'll meet with Jesus face-to-face
and he'll look at you with this concerned expression wondering why you
decided to reject Him for a bunch of trolls that somehow convinced
you He doesn't exist -- right before the Book of Life is opened,
your name isn't found, and you're pushed onto a bullet train to the
Eternal Lake of Fire.)
Your life has zero meaning outside of a pension fund
and whatever children you pass on your meaningless existence to.
So I would be so much more fulfilled if I did what? Dropped down on my
knees and heaped praises on an invisible celestial psychopath?
You crack me up.
Thanks. How can He be a psychopath if all we silly 'Xtians' believe is
He created us, gave us free will, and gave us a promise of eternal life?
Because if your holy book is to be believed, he's responsible for the
wanton genocide of entire peoples, where he specifically instructed his
armies to slaughter children.
All because they weren't slavering him with worship. The god of the
bible is just about the very definition of a psychotic narcissistic
complex.
He created it, He can slaughter it. He thinks on an eternal level and
sees our life on Earth as nothing. Life is not about the here and now,
it's about infinite time. Every person slaughtered in the OT went to
Hades (not hell) where they will actually be given a chance to accept
Jesus before the final judgement. In terms of infinite time, he
slaughtered no one. People slaughter _themselves_, for an eternity, by
not believing the Word of God.
What difference would it make 50 years from now if you stepped off the
observation deck of a 100 story building today?
The same difference if you stepped off with me. You being religious
doesn't imbue with some kind of intrinsic worth to the world that the
rest of us lack.
The world will be just as oblivious that you ever lived 50 years from
now as it will be for me. You going to church every week and singing
hosannas to your sky-boss or whatever you do won't change that.
50 years from now, I'll most likely (God willing) be in heaven floating
around with my little harp while you're screaming in agony remembering
this little conversation, helplessly trying to bat out flames all over
your continuously rejuvenating flesh while a giant worm swims around in
your rib cage eating your organs from the inside out. In between gasps
of sheer horror you'll wonder why, and then remember that not only were
you warned, but that you passed up a perfectly free gift.
I wonder if you actually comprehend how ridiculous you sound. Probably
not.
good eye.. the bit about the harp isn't accurate
It all comes down to who has superior force.
So basically your argument is that I should love god because he can kick
my *****.
Well, let him kick my *****, then. Such a god doesn't deserve my love.
Such a god also doesn't have the time to kick the ***** of some
emotionally distressed pansy.
Well, fine. Then neither one of us will get in the other's way. Problem
solved.
Not while you're alive. The moment you die, you're going to meet
reality.. and you know it.
Absolutely. I'll meet the same reality as you: the end. Poof. Gone.
Hey.. you're just following what approximately 3.8% of the world's
population believes.
Yeah, just about 100% of the world once believed the world was flat,
also. Didn't make it true. In fact it was the 1% of the people who
turned out to be right, even though the religious people tortured and
killed them for saying so.
You guys have such a great track record with both accuracy and love...
I've got better things to do than respond to some eighth-wit troll
that bounces from group to group practicing non-existent flaming skills,
shitbrain. I'm just here 'cause I love ya !)
The difference is that the idea of that happening doesn't bother me
much, while it absolutely terrifies you to the point where you have to
make up fairy tales just to sleep at night.
Fear of _God_ is the beginning of wisdom. Why would anyone fear
non-existence?
You tell me since you obviously do.
The list:
.
|
|
|
| User: "BTR1701" |
|
| Title: Re: OT? Book of Daniel |
25 Jan 2006 06:37:41 PM |
|
|
In article <0nOBf.122295$mP4.97841@fe05.news.easynews.com>,
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=D0?= <mÃÐMÁ×¹@ÅsSrEmOvEr.çøm> wrote:
BTR1701 wrote:
In article <fSZAf.162775$pW2.117262@fe04.news.easynews.com>,
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=D0?= <mÃÐMÁ×¹@ÅsSrEmOvEr.çøm> wrote:
Your holy book is no more true "just because" than are the holy books of
all the other religions.
..none of which contain self-fulfilling prophecies, archeological
evidence to back them up, historical evidence to back up their
"characters", and the evidence of their 'god' performing miracles
in modern time.
Neither does yours.
post proof
You're the one making the positive statement of fact (specifically that
your myth book is true). According to the rules of logic, it's up to you
to prove it.
You religious folks love to illogically demand people prove a negative
and then claim some kind of victory when they can't.
I thought I already debunked this tactic when I asked you to disprove
the tiny invisible hippopotamus that lives in your ear. I see the lesson
didn't take.
You believe it was David Copperfield?
I made no such claim. Please quote me back the passage where I said
this. You're the one who thinks the entire universe is the result of
some kind of cosmic magic trick, not me.
exactly the original point, pinhead.. you claimed "that it has always
existed in one form or another. There doesn't need to be a creator
because it wasn't created. It always just was." i.e. you either believe
matter randomly pops into existence or worse.. that it was always there
from time infinitum.
Why is that worse? It's what you believe about your god after all.
Two year old kids can grasp cause and effect yet
you re-write quantum physics, logistics, and the dynamics of matter and
energy to fit that hallucination you call reality.
How does what I said "re-write quantum physics and the dynamics of
matter and energy"? Please explain.
It's amazing that this god is unseeable, untouchable, unsmellable,
unhearable and basically unprovable, yet so many people claim to know
exactly what it thinks at any given moment.
Not one person in the entire history of human existence has made that
claim. You are a liar.
Baloney. I've known people personally who have made that claim.
that's your problem
No, it's yours, since it just proved you to be a liar.
Prove they claimed it.
LOL! You've been caught in a lie and this is the best you can do?
lack of proof noted, liar
I already provided the proof. I witnessed it. That's called direct
evidence. Acceptable in any court of law.
However, it's rather sad that after making the ludicrous assertion that
you know what every person who has ever lived has and has not said, that
the best you can do to defend it is to purposely demand an offer of
proof that you know is next to impossible to provide in a text-based
anonymous electronic medium.
Typical tactic of those who find themselves on the losing end of a
debate: require proof that they know can't be provided due to the
limitations of the medium and then claim that lack of that proof is
evidence that they are right.
Of the two of us, the liar is most definitely the one who claims to know
what every person in the history of mankind has and has not said.
Proving you're not totally blind ain't gonna cut it..
That doesn't even make sense. You claimed to know what every single
person who has ever lived has said. You're so full of *****, your eyes
are brown.
Makes perfect sense to someone who's not so full of themselves they
can't detect a humorous concession.
You've been caught in a lie and this is the best you can do?
Always wanted to ask this of an atheist.. Are you 100% sure, no doubt
whatsoever, that there is no god? Not 99.99999%, but so solid a 100%
you'd stake you and your family's life on it?
According to you I already have, haven't I?
By the way, nice change of subject, steering the topic 180 degrees away
from your ridiculous claim to know what everyone in human history has
and hasn't said.
Oh, and I'll just go ahead and prove you wrong right now: I claim to
know the mind of god. There. Now at least one person in human history
has made that claim. I did. You're officially a liar.
Why go on living?
Because I enjoy it, moron.
You're not even having fun now.
Oh, yeah, I forgot. You religious guys know everything. Not only do you
know what every person who has ever lived has and has not said, you also
know the intimate details of my life, such that you can declare that I'm
not happy despite all evidence to the contrary.
What evidence? Your posting pattern alone suggests you don't have a
life, and I'm sure three minutes of Google diving would confirm it.
I always love it when morons like you accuse others of "not having a
life", and citing Usenet as proof while at the same time engaging in
exactly the same "posting patterns" yourself.
So if I don't have a life, then neither do you. Your religious beliefs
don't seem to have helped you out in that regard. You're just as unhappy
and miserable as I am.
Why not put a bullet through your head?
Because as an atheist, this life is all I have. On the other hand,
you've got heaven to look forward to, right? You should be eager to get
there, so it's you that should be eager to blow your own head off. Don't
let me stop you.
Wish I could be there for ya pal.. the moment before your death.
Don't bother. Unlike you, I'm not terrified of that moment.
You've heard about those people who die in the hospital and are
brought back after six or seven minutes ..the ones who were so
grateful they were brought back because they had instantaneously
descended into hell the moment they died.
No, never heard of those people. People hallucinate all sorts of strange
things when under intense stress. If they came back after seven minutes
and told you they were in Candyland, would that prove Candyland is real?
(Actually just a holding cell
until the Day of Judgement, where you'll meet with Jesus face-to-face
and he'll look at you with this concerned expression wondering why you
decided to reject Him for a bunch of trolls that somehow convinced
you He doesn't exist
Wasn't it you who was claiming that no one in human history had ever
claimed to know the mind of god? Now here you are claiming to know what
expression will be on Jesus's face and what he'll be wondering and
whatnot.
Hypocrisy, thy name is =?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=D0?=
-- right before the Book of Life is opened,
your name isn't found, and you're pushed onto a bullet train to the
Eternal Lake of Fire.)
Well, you're good for a chuckle, if nothing else.
Thanks. How can He be a psychopath if all we silly 'Xtians' believe is
He created us, gave us free will, and gave us a promise of eternal life?
Because if your holy book is to be believed, he's responsible for the
wanton genocide of entire peoples, where he specifically instructed his
armies to slaughter children.
All because they weren't slavering him with worship. The god of the
bible is just about the very definition of a psychotic narcissistic
complex.
He created it, He can slaughter it.
So if I create a couple of kids, I can slaughter them? Cool.
50 years from now, I'll most likely (God willing) be in heaven floating
around with my little harp
I wonder if you even realize how ridiculous it is that you aspire to
spending an infinite eternity doing nothing but floating around with a
harp?
Hey.. you're just following what approximately 3.8% of the world's
population believes.
Yeah, just about 100% of the world once believed the world was flat,
also. Didn't make it true. In fact it was the 1% of the people who
turned out to be right, even though the religious people tortured and
killed them for saying so.
You guys have such a great track record with both accuracy and love...
I've got better things to do than respond to some eighth-wit troll
And here it is. Backed into a logical corner, he suddenly has "better
things to do".
SSDD
.
|
|
|
| User: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=D0?=" |
|
| Title: Re: OT? Book of Daniel |
26 Jan 2006 02:02:32 AM |
|
|
BTR1701 wrote:
In article <0nOBf.122295$mP4.97841@fe05.news.easynews.com>,
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=D0?= <mÃÐMÁ×¹@ÅsSrEmOvEr.çøm> wrote:
BTR1701 wrote:
In article <fSZAf.162775$pW2.117262@fe04.news.easynews.com>,
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=D0?= <mÃÐMÁ×¹@ÅsSrEmOvEr.çøm> wrote:
Your holy book is no more true "just because" than are the holy books of
all the other religions.
..none of which contain self-fulfilling prophecies, archeological
evidence to back them up, historical evidence to back up their
"characters", and the evidence of their 'god' performing miracles
in modern time.
Neither does yours.
post proof
You're the one making the positive statement of fact (specifically that
your myth book is true). According to the rules of logic, it's up to you
to prove it.
You've seen the proof from morons stupid enough to dance for you.
Not to mention you were once a Christian yourself.
You religious folks love to illogically demand people prove a negative
and then claim some kind of victory when they can't.
Post where I said I'm religious or be my spanked lapdog..
I thought I already debunked this tactic when I asked you to disprove
the tiny invisible hippopotamus that lives in your ear. I see the lesson
didn't take.
Your thinking is in the minority to the tune of less than 4% of the
world's population, post editing coward.. which besides disqualifying
you from handing out 'lessons' also puts the burden of proof in your
court.
You believe it was David Copperfield?
I made no such claim. Please quote me back the passage where I said
this. You're the one who thinks the entire universe is the result of
some kind of cosmic magic trick, not me.
exactly the original point, pinhead.. you claimed "that it has always
existed in one form or another. There doesn't need to be a creator
because it wasn't created. It always just was." i.e. you either believe
matter randomly pops into existence or worse.. that it was always there
from time infinitum.
Why is that worse? It's what you believe about your god after all.
God is not a physical, material being constrained by the laws of
physics. A formless intelligence eternally existing in the void
of space is far less problematical than rocks that existed from
time eternal eventually coming together only to explode in a big
bang that randomly throws the rocks in such perfect manner as to
form a planet just the right distance from a star to support life
...and on that particular planet, a shower of random minerals lands
in a puddle of water in such a way that they mix and poof.. an
amoeba.. that's floating around on a desolate planet completely void of
life with absolutely nothing in the way of nourishment and wonder of
wonders ..the amoeba splits itself into a duplicate, still sitting in
the puddle with nothing to eat on a planet of rock and water.. if you
can't see the ridiculous odds of that _alone_, you deserve to wallow in
your ignorance.
Two year old kids can grasp cause and effect yet
you re-write quantum physics, logistics, and the dynamics of matter and
energy to fit that hallucination you call reality.
How does what I said "re-write quantum physics and the dynamics of
matter and energy"? Please explain.
You claimed matter could have existed without cause. Look, if you
stopped snipping and creatively editing *****, you'd be able to see what
the hell you're talking about.
It's amazing that this god is unseeable, untouchable, unsmellable,
unhearable and basically unprovable, yet so many people claim to know
exactly what it thinks at any given moment.
Not one person in the entire history of human existence has made that
claim. You are a liar.
Baloney. I've known people personally who have made that claim.
that's your problem
No, it's yours, since it just proved you to be a liar.
Prove they claimed it.
LOL! You've been caught in a lie and this is the best you can do?
lack of proof noted, liar
I already provided the proof. I witnessed it. That's called direct
evidence. Acceptable in any court of law.
you've been found to be a liar, which makes the evidence inadmissable
However, it's rather sad that after making the ludicrous assertion that
you know what every person who has ever lived has and has not said, that
the best you can do to defend it is to purposely demand an offer of
proof that you know is next to impossible to provide in a text-based
anonymous electronic medium.
Blaming your lack of communication skills on the medium proves you're
a helpless, nonsensical git that vaporlocks under pressure.
Typical tactic of those who find themselves on the losing end of a
debate: require proof that they know can't be provided due to the
limitations of the medium and then claim that lack of that proof is
evidence that they are right.
Considering that proves you'd find it a challenge to write a squiggly
line on an Etch-a-Sketch, it's hardly surprising you can't regurgitate a
drop of evidence to support any of your mythological ramblings.
Of the two of us, the liar is most definitely the one who claims to know
what every person in the history of mankind has and has not said.
Proving you're not totally blind ain't gonna cut it..
That doesn't even make sense. You claimed to know what every single
person who has ever lived has said. You're so full of *****, your eyes
are brown.
Makes perfect sense to someone who's not so full of themselves they
can't detect a humorous concession.
You've been caught in a lie and this is the best you can do?
Always wanted to ask this of an atheist.. Are you 100% sure, no doubt
whatsoever, that there is no god? Not 99.99999%, but so solid a 100%
you'd stake you and your family's life on it?
According to you I already have, haven't I?
I ain't gonna put words in your mouth, insignificant rambler
By the way, nice change of subject, steering the topic 180 degrees away
from your ridiculous claim to know what everyone in human history has
and hasn't said.
Amazing that you always find an excuse to dodge legitimate questions.
Oh, and I'll just go ahead and prove you wrong right now: I claim to
know the mind of god. There. Now at least one person in human history
has made that claim. I did. You're officially a liar.
Claims from psychotic insignificant ramblers are baseless, sparky
Why go on living?
Because I enjoy it, moron.
You're not even having fun now.
Oh, yeah, I forgot. You religious guys know everything. Not only do you
know what every person who has ever lived has and has not said, you also
know the intimate details of my life, such that you can declare that I'm
not happy despite all evidence to the contrary.
What evidence? Your posting pattern alone suggests you don't have a
life, and I'm sure three minutes of Google diving would confirm it.
I always love it when morons like you accuse others of "not having a
life", and citing Usenet as proof while at the same time engaging in
exactly the same "posting patterns" yourself.
You never take a break.. like that fuckin' doomsday machine in Star
Trek that wanders around aimlessly destroying planets and consuming
the rubble ..and you can't even remember much less support your own
position on any subject you raise.
So if I don't have a life, then neither do you. Your religious beliefs
don't seem to have helped you out in that regard. You're just as unhappy
and miserable as I am.
LMAO
Why not put a bullet through your head?
Because as an atheist, this life is all I have. On the other hand,
you've got heaven to look forward to, right? You should be eager to get
there, so it's you that should be eager to blow your own head off. Don't
let me stop you.
Wish I could be there for ya pal.. the moment before your death.
Don't bother. Unlike you, I'm not terrified of that moment.
Yeah, well.. a second after that moment comes, you will be.
You've heard about those people who die in the hospital and are
brought back after six or seven minutes ..the ones who were so
grateful they were brought back because they had instantaneously
descended into hell the moment they died.
No, never heard of those people. People hallucinate all sorts of strange
things when under intense stress. If they came back after seven minutes
and told you they were in Candyland, would that prove Candyland is real?
Them trollz have really worked you over, haven't they. People like that
Watcher guy that pats you on the back every time you come up with a
'witty' retort to sidestep the facts. I see a difference in you,
though. You're more intelligent than those goons, yet you don't
believe you're their equal, so you try harder to impress them while
they keep loading you up with taglines. If you were once a Christian,
then you experienced the power of the Holy Spirit at least once, I'm
sure. The voice may be small, but He will never forsake you.
(Actually just a holding cell
until the Day of Judgement, where you'll meet with Jesus face-to-face
and he'll look at you with this concerned expression wondering why you
decided to reject Him for a bunch of trolls that somehow convinced
you He doesn't exist
Wasn't it you who was claiming that no one in human history had ever
claimed to know the mind of god? Now here you are claiming to know what
expression will be on Jesus's face and what he'll be wondering and
whatnot.
Hypocrisy, thy name is =?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=D0?=
Just imagine the torment of seeing His face and having the Book of Life
closed on you, forever. God is love, but He is just and cannot be
in the presence of sin. You know damn well that Jesus is the only
hope you have to wash away that sin. Without Jesus, my bullet train
to hell would pass yours like it was standing still. I judge no one.
-- right before the Book of Life is opened,
your name isn't found, and you're pushed onto a bullet train to the
Eternal Lake of Fire.)
Well, you're good for a chuckle, if nothing else.
likewise
Thanks. How can He be a psychopath if all we silly 'Xtians' believe is
He created us, gave us free will, and gave us a promise of eternal life?
Because if your holy book is to be believed, he's responsible for the
wanton genocide of entire peoples, where he specifically instructed his
armies to slaughter children.
All because they weren't slavering him with worship. The god of the
bible is just about the very definition of a psychotic narcissistic
complex.
He created it, He can slaughter it.
So if I create a couple of kids, I can slaughter them? Cool.
absolutely.. "I brought you into this world, I can take you out". What
loving mother hasn't said that to their kids before.
50 years from now, I'll most likely (God willing) be in heaven floating
around with my little harp
I wonder if you even realize how ridiculous it is that you aspire to
spending an infinite eternity doing nothing but floating around with a
harp?
Gimme a song list and I'll play ya some tunes while the eternal flames
of damnation are lapping at your soul..
Hey.. you're just following what approximately 3.8% of the world's
population believes.
Yeah, just about 100% of the world once believed the world was flat,
also. Didn't make it true. In fact it was the 1% of the people who
turned out to be right, even though the religious people tortured and
killed them for saying so.
You guys have such a great track record with both accuracy and love...
I've got better things to do than respond to some eighth-wit troll
And here it is. Backed into a logical corner, he suddenly has "better
things to do".
Your editing's sure improved.. give ya that
.
|
|
|
| User: "BTR1701" |
|
| Title: Re: OT? Book of Daniel |
26 Jan 2006 06:22:53 PM |
|
|
In article <rm%Bf.301800$Zp.134342@fe08.news.easynews.com>,
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=D0?= <mÃÐMÁ×¹@ÅsSrEmOvEr.çøm> wrote:
BTR1701 wrote:
In article <0nOBf.122295$mP4.97841@fe05.news.easynews.com>,
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=D0?= <mÃÐMÁ×¹@ÅsSrEmOvEr.çøm> wrote:
BTR1701 wrote:
In article <fSZAf.162775$pW2.117262@fe04.news.easynews.com>,
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=D0?= <mÃÐMÁ×¹@ÅsSrEmOvEr.çøm> wrote:
Your holy book is no more true "just because" than are the holy books of
all the other religions.
..none of which contain self-fulfilling prophecies, archeological
evidence to back them up, historical evidence to back up their
"characters", and the evidence of their 'god' performing miracles
in modern time.
Neither does yours.
post proof
You're the one making the positive statement of fact (specifically that
your myth book is true). According to the rules of logic, it's up to you
to prove it.
You've seen the proof from morons stupid enough to dance for you.
Not to mention you were once a Christian yourself.
No, I was never Christian. I was raised in a Christian home and forced
to go to church but even as a little kid, it never really took. I never
actually bought into all the myths and stories any more than I really
believed Santa Claus plopped down our chimney every year and dumped a
load of presents in our living room. I went along with all the religious
hoo-ha because I was expected to but deep down I never really believed.
You religious folks love to illogically demand people prove a negative
and then claim some kind of victory when they can't.
Post where I said I'm religious or be my spanked lapdog..
You didn't have to say it.
But since that's the standard, you claimed I was once Christian. Post
where I said I was Christian or be my spanked lapdog.
I thought I already debunked this tactic when I asked you to disprove
the tiny invisible hippopotamus that lives in your ear. I see the lesson
didn't take.
Your thinking is in the minority to the tune of less than 4% of the
world's population, post editing coward.. which besides disqualifying
you from handing out 'lessons' also puts the burden of proof in your
court.
The "Appeal to Popularity" is one of the major logical fallacies. It's
no surprise you feel the need to abandon rational thought in order to
further your cause. Logic 101-- look into it.
You believe it was David Copperfield?
I made no such claim. Please quote me back the passage where I said
this. You're the one who thinks the entire universe is the result of
some kind of cosmic magic trick, not me.
exactly the original point, pinhead.. you claimed "that it has always
existed in one form or another. There doesn't need to be a creator
because it wasn't created. It always just was." i.e. you either believe
matter randomly pops into existence or worse.. that it was always there
from time infinitum.
Why is that worse? It's what you believe about your god after all.
God is not a physical, material being constrained by the laws of
physics.
Not surprising since it doesn't even exist.
A formless intelligence eternally existing in the void
of space
There was no "void of space" before the universe existed in its present
form.
is far less problematical than rocks that existed from
time eternal eventually coming together only to explode in a big
bang that randomly throws the rocks in such perfect manner as to
form a planet just the right distance from a star to support life
Wow. I don't think I've ever seen a more juvenile or ridiculous
"explanation" of the concept of an eternal universe.
Hint: No one's saying that "rocks" have always existed.
Two year old kids can grasp cause and effect yet
you re-write quantum physics, logistics, and the dynamics of matter and
energy to fit that hallucination you call reality.
How does what I said "re-write quantum physics and the dynamics of
matter and energy"? Please explain.
You claimed matter could have existed without cause.
Wrong. I said the universe could have always existed in one form or
another. Nowhere in there did I assert what you claim I did. Think long
and hard and the distinction just might come to you.
lack of proof noted, liar
I already provided the proof. I witnessed it. That's called direct
evidence. Acceptable in any court of law.
you've been found to be a liar, which makes the evidence inadmissable
No, you've just called me a liar, which is hardly the same thing,
especially coming from a guy who thinks he knows what every person in
human history has and has not said.
However, it's rather sad that after making the ludicrous assertion that
you know what every person who has ever lived has and has not said, that
the best you can do to defend it is to purposely demand an offer of
proof that you know is next to impossible to provide in a text-based
anonymous electronic medium.
Blaming your lack of communication skills on the medium proves you're
a helpless, nonsensical git that vaporlocks under pressure.
I'm not blaming anything on the medium. I'm blaming you for engaging in
transparently disingenuous (but hardly surprising) behavior.
Typical tactic of those who find themselves on the losing end of a
debate: require proof that they know can't be provided due to the
limitations of the medium and then claim that lack of that proof is
evidence that they are right.
Considering that proves you'd find it a challenge to write a squiggly
line on an Etch-a-Sketch
You apparently are operating under a different definition of the word
"proof" than the rest of the English-speaking world.
Why go on living?
Because I enjoy it, moron.
You're not even having fun now.
Oh, yeah, I forgot. You religious guys know everything. Not only do you
know what every person who has ever lived has and has not said, you also
know the intimate details of my life, such that you can declare that I'm
not happy despite all evidence to the contrary.
What evidence? Your posting pattern alone suggests you don't have a
life, and I'm sure three minutes of Google diving would confirm it.
I always love it when morons like you accuse others of "not having a
life", and citing Usenet as proof while at the same time engaging in
exactly the same "posting patterns" yourself.
You never take a break..
Neither do you.
and you can't even remember much less support your own
position on any subject you raise.
Neither can you. And none of that changes the fact that you have no
life, either, so your religion has done you no good in that regard.
Why not put a bullet through your head?
Because as an atheist, this life is all I have. On the other hand,
you've got heaven to look forward to, right? You should be eager to get
there, so it's you that should be eager to blow your own head off. Don't
let me stop you.
Wish I could be there for ya pal.. the moment before your death.
Don't bother. Unlike you, I'm not terrified of that moment.
Yeah, well.. a second after that moment comes, you will be.
*yawn*
You've heard about those people who die in the hospital and are
brought back after six or seven minutes ..the ones who were so
grateful they were brought back because they had instantaneously
descended into hell the moment they died.
No, never heard of those people. People hallucinate all sorts of strange
things when under intense stress. If they came back after seven minutes
and told you they were in Candyland, would that prove Candyland is real?
Them trollz have really worked you over, haven't they. People like that
Watcher guy that pats you on the back every time you come up with a
'witty' retort to sidestep the facts.
You better tighten your tinfoil hat, chief. Your paranoia is showing.
That Evil Cabal of Atheists is conspiring against you again, huh? Next
thing you know, we'll be hovering over your house in black helicopters
and monitoring your thoughts, too.
Wasn't it you who was claiming that no one in human history had ever
claimed to know the mind of god? Now here you are claiming to know what
expression will be on Jesus's face and what he'll be wondering and
whatnot.
Hypocrisy, thy name is =?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=D0?=
Just imagine the torment of seeing His face and having the Book of Life
closed on you, forever.
Yeah, and if boys and girls don't behave, Santa won't bring them
presents, either.
God is love, but He is just and cannot be
in the presence of sin.
So there's something god cannot do? Interesting. I thought he was
supposed to be omnipotent.
You know damn well that Jesus is the only
hope you have to wash away that sin.
No, my hope lies with Bastet and believe me, she's awfully pissed at
you. Just imagine the torment of seeing her face and having the Magazine
of Joy slapped shut in front of you...
Without Jesus, my bullet train
to hell would pass yours like it was
standing still. I judge no one.
Except for the people you constantly judge, even anonymously over the
internet, people you can't possibly even know. But of course that trick
is a small one for someone who has the ability to divine what every
person in history has and has not said.
He created it, He can slaughter it.
So if I create a couple of kids, I can slaughter them? Cool.
absolutely.. "I brought you into this world, I can take you out". What
loving mother hasn't said that to their kids before.
Well, Koresh, if nothing else, you just established that you're as
psychotic as the god you claim to worship. No big surprise, I suppose.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Don Sample" |
|
| Title: Re: OT? Book of Daniel |
23 Jan 2006 12:24:15 AM |
|
|
In article <fSZAf.162775$pW2.117262@fe04.news.easynews.com>,
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=D0?= <mÃÐMÁ×¹@ÅsSrEmOvEr.çøm> wrote:
BTR1701 wrote:
No, it just takes logic and common sense.
Your holy book is no more true "just because" than are the holy books of
all the other religions.
..none of which contain self-fulfilling prophecies, archeological
evidence to back them up, historical evidence to back up their
"characters", and the evidence of their 'god' performing miracles
in modern time.
A lot of Islamic scholars would disagree with you.
And point to one contemporary source outside of the Bible that mentions
Jesus Christ. (Or pretty much any other Biblical character.)
And I haven't noticed him parting any seas lately. What's your standard
for "performing miracles in modern time."
It's amazing that this god is unseeable, untouchable, unsmellable,
unhearable and basically unprovable, yet so many people claim to know
exactly what it thinks at any given moment.
Not one person in the entire history of human existence has made that
claim. You are a liar.
Baloney. I've known people personally who have made that claim.
that's your problem
No, it's yours, since it just proved you to be a liar.
Prove they claimed it.
You only have to watch any of the of televangelists for a few minutes to
hear someone claiming that they speak for God with absolute certainty
that they are telling you what He says and thinks about anything. (And
the Bible is full of accounts from people who claim to speak for God,
and that they are telling you God's thoughts. So according to the
Bible, you're a liar.)
So I would be so much more fulfilled if I did what? Dropped down on my
knees and heaped praises on an invisible celestial psychopath?
You crack me up.
Thanks. How can He be a psychopath if all we silly 'Xtians' believe is
He created us, gave us free will, and gave us a promise of eternal life?
Because you silly Xtians say that God loves you, and everyone else,
while citing all the times he's slaughtered and tortured the people he
"loves."
The same difference if you stepped off with me. You being religious
doesn't imbue with some kind of intrinsic worth to the world that the
rest of us lack.
The world will be just as oblivious that you ever lived 50 years from
now as it will be for me. You going to church every week and singing
hosannas to your sky-boss or whatever you do won't change that.
50 years from now, I'll most likely (God willing) be in heaven floating
around with my little harp while you're screaming in agony remembering
this little conversation, helplessly trying to bat out flames all over
your continuously rejuvenating flesh while a giant worm swims around in
your rib cage eating your organs from the inside out. In between gasps
of sheer horror you'll wonder why, and then remember that not only were
you warned, but that you passed up a perfectly free gift.
And yet you think that your God isn't a psychopath.
Not while you're alive. The moment you die, you're going to meet
reality.. and you know it.
Absolutely. I'll meet the same reality as you: the end. Poof. Gone.
Hey.. you're just following what approximately 3.8% of the world's
population believes. That combined with the odds of everything you
believe about the spontaneous appearance of matter, etc.. proves
you must spend 90% of your salary on lottery tickets.
Going by what the majority believes to be true, is usually a losing bet.
"Common wisdom" is usually wrong. Once upon a time the majority of
people believed that the world was flat. 50 years ago science teachers
were telling their students that rockets couldn't get people to the moon
because there was nothing for them to push against in space.
The difference is that the idea of that happening doesn't bother me
much, while it absolutely terrifies you to the point where you have to
make up fairy tales just to sleep at night.
Fear of _God_ is the beginning of wisdom. Why would anyone fear
non-existence?
Why should anyone *fear* a benevolent God? Being afraid of a
psychopathic god makes sense.
--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Don Sample" |
|
| Title: Re: OT? Book of Daniel |
22 Jan 2006 11:48:15 PM |
|
|
In article <fSZAf.162775$pW2.117262@fe04.news.easynews.com>,
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=D0?= <mÃÐMÁ×¹@ÅsSrEmOvEr.çøm> wrote:
I'll bite. Matter has always existed. There is no initial creation..
no intelligence whatsoever. The Big Bang happens and random chance
creates stars that spin off planets, an unknown number for which more
random chance launches abiogenesis. On our own planet, random chance
still favoring us to the tune of winning thousands of consecutive state
lotteries, abiogenesis couples with perfect leaps in DNA mutation-based
evolution to eventually spin out whole species that suddenly pop into
existence (no transitional fossils) -- hardly surprising since matter
itself somehow popped into existence unmentioned eons ago -- and here
we sit, not owing thanks to anything except your god.. random chance.
And how is that more improbable than God suddenly popping into existence
out of nothingness?
(And just because we haven't found any transitional fossils for some
species doesn't mean the transitional species didn't happen. It just
means that they didn't leave any fossils in any of the places we've
looked.)
--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Peter" |
|
| Title: Re: OT? Book of Daniel |
23 Jan 2006 11:04:23 PM |
|
|
M=D0 wrote:
BTR1701 wrote:
snipped<
I'll bite. Matter has always existed. There is no initial creation..
no intelligence whatsoever. The Big Bang happens and random chance
Nothing random about it. Cause and effect, action and reaction.
Newtons 3rd law - "For every action, there is an equal and opposite
reaction."
http://www.glenbrook.k12.il.us/gbssci/phys/Class/newtlaws/u2l4a.html
Here's an opportunity to educate yourself.
creates stars that spin off planets, an unknown number for which more
random chance launches abiogenesis. On our own planet, random chance
still favoring us to the tune of winning thousands of consecutive state
lotteries, abiogenesis couples with perfect leaps in DNA mutation-based
evolution to eventually spin out whole species that suddenly pop into
existence (no transitional fossils)
You are mistaken here as well. They are *all* transitional fossils.
Evolution is a continuous dynamic process. Not a means to an end.
-- hardly surprising since matter
itself somehow popped into existence unmentioned eons ago -- and here
we sit, not owing thanks to anything except your god.. random chance.
=20
snipped again<
Peter
(cross posts removed)
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Pumba" |
|
| Title: Re: OT? Book of Daniel |
23 Jan 2006 06:15:04 AM |
|
|
BTR1701 wrote:
If you can't prove it's not there, then it must be true, right?
How do you account for all the matter and energy that obviously is here?
Show me an example of any amount of matter that pops into existence
out of thin air.
Quit anthropomorphizing the universe. Just because people are finite
doesn't mean the universe has to be.
It's fascinating that you religious guys declare that if the universe
exists it *must* have been created but when you're asked who or what
created your god, you say that it has always existed with no beginning
or end.
If it's possible for you to conceive of an infinite god, why is it so
hard for you to accept the idea that perhaps the same is true of the
universe: that it has always existed in one form or another. There
doesn't need to be a creator because it wasn't created. It always just
was.
the universe is finite. that much is already known.
--
Pumba, the warthog, from the Lion King
The lion sleeps tonight mp3:
http://tinyurl.com/957lp
You have been officially PUMBA-ed~!
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
