| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"ltlee1" |
| Date: |
02 Mar 2005 05:36:42 AM |
| Object: |
Re: OT: Ten Commandments in American Courthouse. |
PaPaPeng wrote:
There is a current controversy (CNN and other reports) about the
presence of a granite monument outside a US (Alabama?) courthouse as
to whether it violates the Consitituional separation of state and
religion.
Lost in this is of course is the message itself that few, if anyone,
can disagree with the Ten Commandants as a universal message. My
solution is that all other ethnic communities should take this as an
opportunity to include their morality belief systems as exists in
their cultural equivalents and erect their monuments nearby to show
that all peoples share the same moral principles. Offhand I think
Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism, Zoarastarian and Judiaism-Christianity
have similar sayings. Hammurabi laws would precede all these belief
systems. The Ten Commandments then become one of many in a tribute to
the universality and continuity of morality among diverse cultures
rather than an issue of separation of state and religion.
USATODAT has two articles detailing the pro and con of the 10
commandent display.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2005-03-01-our-view_x.htm
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2005-03-01-oppose_x.htm
Unfortunately, neither side are getting into the crux of the problem.
Church and State can only separated if and only if the officials
including Supreme Court justices can pretend to be agnostic. Since they
can't determine whether God exists or not, all religious symbolisms are
irrelevant.
The substance of separation of church and state is no more than
government officials leaving their religious views, including their
interpretations on religious symbols, at the front doors of government
buildings. Once they accomplish that, displays of all sorts are of no
consequences.
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| User: "Gregory Gadow" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Ten Commandments in American Courthouse. |
02 Mar 2005 08:22:34 AM |
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Piggy-backing
ltlee1 wrote:
PaPaPeng wrote:
There is a current controversy (CNN and other reports) about the
presence of a granite monument outside a US (Alabama?) courthouse as
to whether it violates the Consitituional separation of state and
religion.
Lost in this is of course is the message itself that few, if anyone,
can disagree with the Ten Commandants as a universal message.
Absolutely untrue. The first several commandments are purely sectarian. There
is nothing "universal" about being forbidden to worship idols, being required
to keep every seventh day holy and being ordered to worship a particular
deity "or else."
--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear
"[T]hose who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves;
and, under the rule of a just God, cannot long retain it."
-- Pres. George W. Bush, Hypocrite, his inauguration speech, 2005
.
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| User: "ltlee1" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Ten Commandments in American Courthouse. |
02 Mar 2005 09:38:51 AM |
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Gregory Gadow wrote:
Piggy-backing
ltlee1 wrote:
PaPaPeng wrote:
There is a current controversy (CNN and other reports) about the
presence of a granite monument outside a US (Alabama?) courthouse
as
to whether it violates the Consitituional separation of state and
religion.
Lost in this is of course is the message itself that few, if
anyone,
can disagree with the Ten Commandants as a universal message.
Absolutely untrue. The first several commandments are purely
sectarian. There
is nothing "universal" about being forbidden to worship idols, being
required
to keep every seventh day holy and being ordered to worship a
particular
deity "or else."
--
Problem.
Taking a position on what worshipping idols, keeping every seventh day
holy, and orders to worship may or may not bring is a deviation from
the separation of Church and State.
No. Straight separation of church and state should preclude the
justices from interjecting their own religious views one way or the
other on the above commandments. The people can believe their sectarian
nature. Not the justices.
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear
"[T]hose who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves;
and, under the rule of a just God, cannot long retain it."
-- Pres. George W. Bush, Hypocrite, his inauguration speech, 2005
.
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| User: "Jim Walsh" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Ten Commandments in American Courthouse. |
02 Mar 2005 09:09:21 AM |
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On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 06:22:34 -0800, Gregory Gadow thought carefully and
wrote:
Someone wrote:
Lost in this is of course is the message itself that few, if anyone,
can disagree with the Ten Commandants as a universal message.
Absolutely untrue. The first several commandments are purely sectarian.
There is nothing "universal" about being forbidden to worship idols,
being required to keep every seventh day holy and being ordered to
worship a particular deity "or else."
Agree. The Ten Commandments are not universal. Confucius' Gold Rule, is,
however: "Do not do to others what you don't want them to do to you".
BTW, you can build the entire theory of democracy and human rights on that
universal, ancient, Chinese moral statement.
--
Love, Jim
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Ten Commandments in American Courthouse. |
03 Mar 2005 01:26:53 AM |
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Jim Walsh wrote:
On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 06:22:34 -0800, Gregory Gadow thought carefully
and
wrote:
Someone wrote:
Lost in this is of course is the message itself that few, if
anyone,
can disagree with the Ten Commandants as a universal message.
Absolutely untrue. The first several commandments are purely
sectarian.
There is nothing "universal" about being forbidden to worship
idols,
being required to keep every seventh day holy and being ordered to
worship a particular deity "or else."
Agree. The Ten Commandments are not universal. Confucius' Gold Rule,
is,
however: "Do not do to others what you don't want them to do to you".
BTW, you can build the entire theory of democracy and human rights on
that
universal, ancient, Chinese moral statement.
What? Like "Don't train Osama Bin Ladin to kill other people, if we
don't want Osama Bin Ladin to kill our people?"
I guess the CIA should've gave that "blow-back" theory a bit more
consideration when we gave Osama Bin Ladin billions and trained all his
terrorist friends to be freedom fighers. Or before Bush regime decided
to lie about WMD so he can take out Saddam for Daddy, and bring Iraqi
children the gift of highest childhood leukemia rate on Earth.
Now we have "freedom fighters" all over Iraqi, probably include some
with nothing to live for after their kids died from leukemia. So much
that majority of the concrete US occupation power import into Iraq is
for erecting/repairing blast walls
That's while Iraq's cement factory has no electricity and people have
no job. Like Demon Rising said: "the magnificent ends in this case
emphatically justify the means" - which you have recused yourself from
commenting. Remember you earlier defended him? Now you are all quiet.
You are a hypocrit, shame on you.
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