Religions > Atheism > Re: (OT) Why "The Passion of the Christ" Wasn't Nom'd for Best Pic
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Citizen_Cain" |
| Date: |
27 Jan 2005 02:24:39 PM |
| Object: |
Re: (OT) Why "The Passion of the Christ" Wasn't Nom'd for Best Pic |
"curious" <nope@nope.com> wrote in message
news:41F9409D.A134C0AB@nope.com...
http://www.cnn.com/2005/SHOWBIZ/Movies/01/26/oscar.passion/index.html
""Hollywood has spoken. 'Don't mess with us,' is what they're saying,"
said Jennifer Giroux of seethepassion.com. " 'Don't mess with us because
we will not consider your talent if you do anything that is Christian,'
is the message that's coming out.""
Yes, I am sure that's exactly the reason why. It's an anti-Christian
bias.
Her statement makes me wonder if she herself has a little bias towards
Hollywood.
-curious
"Those people" control it, you know... *rolls eyes*
Yea, never mind the fact that the film sucked balls and Mel Gibson is a
fruit loop.
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| User: "William December Starr" |
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| Title: Re: Did any of you actually sit through all ofThe Passion Of Christ? |
28 Jan 2005 04:13:12 AM |
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In article <jkpiv0dt7cvel1ktjs90iaumja8bi8dglt@4ax.com>,
Pastor Dave <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> said:
I also note that I doubt you would have this problem
with any other movie that showed graphic violence. You
don't like this one, because you don't want to be
accountable for your sin, which like everyone else's
caused this to happen.
Not mine.
--
William December Starr <wdstarr@panix.com>
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| User: "chibiabos" |
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| Title: Re: Did any of you actually sit through all ofThe Passion Of Christ? |
27 Jan 2005 10:22:15 PM |
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In article <jkpiv0dt7cvel1ktjs90iaumja8bi8dglt@4ax.com>, Pastor Dave
<newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
Actually, I applaud the work. The fact is, that Mel
Gibson didn't even show you how bad it really was. He
tamed it down for the movie. And it is about time we
get rid of the wimpy movies that show Jesus with a
little cut on his forehead.
[ngs trimmed]
I really have to laugh. You think your precious Jeebus is the only
person who has ever been tortured to death. While I wouldn't wish his
supposed torture on anyone, the fucker got off light, especially when
you consider what was done in his name several centuries later:
During the Spanish Inquisition, accused heretics were imprisoned
without hearing the charges against them, and kept in stinking
dungeons, dark and vermin infested, alone with their excrement. Moldy
bread and stale water helped to supplement the cockroaches and
spiders. Or again, a prisoner who refused to confess his heresies would
be left in solitude and darkness for weeks, months or even years, for
time was no object with the Inquisition and it could well afford to
wait if by so waiting it saved another erring soul. If a few weeks or
even months did not bring the accused heretic to terms the time might
lengthen into years, the years into decades, and the prisoner might
remain in his horrible cell though unconvicted. There are many cases
where three, five or even ten years elapsed between the first hearing
and the final conviction of a prisoner, during all of which time the
accused rotted in his dungeon; and even greater periods are reported.
Once convicted, the prisoner then faced the real terrors. Both the
inquisitor and the bishop were to be present. The prisoner was to be
shown the instruments of torture and urged to confess. Upon refusing he
was to be stripped and bound and again entreated to confess and to be
promised mercy if he did. He/she would stand bound and naked in the
presence of grim, implacable friars and watch the irons heated, the
pulleys of the rack tested, the bearings of the wheel greased in
preparation for their use on his own bones and body.
Some victims were horsewhipped. A sharp iron fork was used to mangle
breasts. Red hot pincers were used to tear off flesh. Red hot irons
were inserted up vaginas and rectums. A device named the turcas was
used to tear out fingernails.
After the nails were ripped out needles were shoved into the quicks.
Boots called bootikens were used to lacerate flesh and crush bone.
Thumbscrews were used to crush the fingers and toes. Acid was poured on
victims and hands were immersed into pots of boiling oil and water.
Eyes were gouged out by irons. Alcohol was poured on the head of the
poor victim and set alight. Water was poured down the victims throat
with a notted cloth. The cloth was then jerked out tearing up the
victims bowels.
The Oral, Rectal, and Vaginal Pear.
They are forced into the mouth, rectum or vagina of the victim and
there expanded by force of the screw to the maximum aperture of their
segments. The inside of the cavity in question is irremediably
mutilated, nearly always fatally so. The pointed prongs at the end of
the seqments serve better to rip into the throat, the intestines or
the cervix.
A common early part of the torture was the 'strappado'- the method used
on Savonarola.
In 1497 Girolamo Savonarola was put to the tratti di fune or strappado,
which consisted of tying the prisoner's hands behind his back, hoisting
him by the wrists, letting him drop for several feet and stopping him
with a jerk before he reached the ground. This proving ineffectual,
weights were attached to Savonarola's feet and he was dropped fourteen
times. Weeks later, he was tied to a stake and burned alive in the
Plaza della Signoria.
During the regime of the later Inquisition in France, torture became
systematized and reduced to a most simplified formula. Only two forms
were recognized: ordinary and extraordinary. The former consisted of
lashing the victim's wrists to an iron ring in the wall and securing
his feet to a second ring in the floor. Then, by hauling on the ropes,
the unfortunate wretch could be effectively racked until his joints
were dislocated. Extraordinary torture consisted of the 'water cure',
thirty pints of water being forcibly administered to the victim. The
mode of execution was also fixed. The heretic sentenced to death was
lashed to a wooden cross. Then the executioner broke the bones of each
leg and each arm in two places by blows with an iron bar and the
victim was left to die. As a rule, however, death was too slow to
satisfy the public, so the victim was burned. (Executions were often
held in public, the better seats commanding higher ticket prices.)
the Rack:
Tied to the rack and stretched gradually (or quickly) for days,
elongation of bodies was reported by various sources to cases of
twelve inches, a result of systematic dislocation of every joint in the
body, loud popping sounds mixing with shrieks of agony, futile cries
for pity. With the prisoner tied to this horrific device, the
inquisitor would then employ a variety of more subtle tortures. Red
hot pincers would tear off nipples, tongues, ears, noses, and
genitals. Intestines were slowly wound onto pulleys before the dying
victim's eyes. Crosses branded into the flesh of the shrieking wretch
brought him/her closer to God and his Infinite Mercy.
A Typical Day's Torture
Verbatim report of the first day's torture of a woman accused of
witchcraft at Prossneck, Germany, in 1629
1. The hangman bound her hands, cut her hair, and placed her on the
ladder. He threw alcohol over her head and set fire to it so as to burn
her hair to the roots.
2. He placed strips of sulphur under her arms and around her back and
set fire to them.
3. He tied her hands behind her back and pulled her up to the ceiling.
4. He left her hanging there from three to four hours, while the
torturer went to breakfast.
5. On his return, he threw alcohol over her back and set fire to it.
6. He attached very heavy weights on her body and drew her up again to
the ceiling. After that he put her back on the ladder and placed a very
rough plank full of sharp points against her body. Having thus arranged
her, he jerked her up again to the ceiling.
7. Then he squeezed her thumbs and big toes in the vice, and he trussed
her arms with a stick, and in this position kept her hanging about a
quarter of an hour, until she fainted away several times.
8. Then he squeezed the calves and legs in the vise, always alternating
the torture with questioning.
9. Then he whipped her with a rawhide whip to cause the blood to flow
out over her shift.
10. Once again he placed her thumbs and big toes in the vise, and left
her in this agony on the torture stool from 10:00 A.M. to 1:00 P.M.,
while the hangman and the court officials went out to get a bite to
eat.
In the afternoon a functionary came who disapproved this pitiless
procedure. But then they whipped her again in a frightful manner. This
concluded the first day of torture.
The next day they started all over again, but without pushing this
quite as far as the day before.
55 Hours to Die; Breaking on a wheel:
Wooden crosspieces were placed under the limbs of the victim, and the
executioner then smashed the wheel into the bone between, and onto the
blocks themselves, also smashing the shoulders and hips, avoiding fatal
blows.
The victim was transformed, according to the observations of a
seventeenth-century chronicler,"into a sort of huge screaming puppet
writhing in rivulets of blood, a puppet with four tentacles, like a sea
monster, of raw, slimy and shapeless flesh [rohw, schleymig und formlos
Fleisch wie di Schleuch eines Tundenfischs] mixed up with splinters of
smashed bones'.
Then, the pulverized limbs were braided into the spokes of the wheel,
which was hoisted to the top of a pole, where the unfortunate wretch
expired slowly, crows fighting over the eyes and other tidbits.
Together with burning at the stake and drawing-and-quartering, this was
one of the most popular spectacles among the many similar ones that
took place in all the squares of Europe more or less every day.
Hundreds of depictions from the span 1450-1750 show throngs of plebians
and the wellborn lost in rapt delight around a good wheeling, better if
of a woman, best of all if of several women in a row.
You make me sick.
-chib
--
Member of S.M.A.S.H.
Sarcastic Middle-aged Atheists with a Sense of Humor
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| User: "MarkA" |
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| Title: Re: Did any of you actually sit through all ofThe Passion Of Christ? |
27 Jan 2005 04:31:41 PM |
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On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 22:11:31 +0000, Pastor Dave wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 16:07:19 -0500, after pondering deep thoughts,
"Napolean Dynamite/ w Deb" <Hey Deb, Wanna See My Liger? It's Pretty Much
My Favorite Animal Bread For It's Skills In Magic> spake thusly:
I watched an hour or so and then had enough. I mean how many times can
I
watch a guy get whipped, punched, beaten to a bloody pulp, and have his
torso ripped in half? It was way too much and if Mel Gibson thinks he
deserves an award for projecting his bloodthirsty, gory fantasies on to a
movie screen for 3 grueling, arduous hours then he's a kook.
Actually, I applaud the work. The fact is, that Mel Gibson didn't even
show you how bad it really was. He tamed it down for the movie. And it
is about time we get rid of the wimpy movies that show Jesus with a little
cut on his forehead.
I also note that I doubt you would have this problem with any other movie
that showed graphic violence. You don't like this one, because you don't
want to be accountable for your sin, which like everyone else's caused
this to happen.
It was a lousy movie because *all it was* was graphic violence.
___
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers: for thy testimonies are
my meditations." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is
the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/solution.html
--
MarkA
(still caught in the maze of twisty little passages, all different)
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Did any of you actually sit through all ofThe Passion Of Christ? |
28 Jan 2005 06:36:55 AM |
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On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 22:31:41 GMT, after pondering deep
thoughts, MarkA <manthony@stopspam.net> spake thusly:
On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 22:11:31 +0000, Pastor Dave wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 16:07:19 -0500, after pondering deep thoughts,
"Napolean Dynamite/ w Deb" <Hey Deb, Wanna See My Liger? It's Pretty Much
My Favorite Animal Bread For It's Skills In Magic> spake thusly:
I watched an hour or so and then had enough. I mean how many times can
I
watch a guy get whipped, punched, beaten to a bloody pulp, and have his
torso ripped in half? It was way too much and if Mel Gibson thinks he
deserves an award for projecting his bloodthirsty, gory fantasies on to a
movie screen for 3 grueling, arduous hours then he's a kook.
Actually, I applaud the work. The fact is, that Mel Gibson didn't even
show you how bad it really was. He tamed it down for the movie. And it
is about time we get rid of the wimpy movies that show Jesus with a little
cut on his forehead.
I also note that I doubt you would have this problem with any other movie
that showed graphic violence. You don't like this one, because you don't
want to be accountable for your sin, which like everyone else's caused
this to happen.
It was a lousy movie because *all it was* was graphic violence.
That is not true at all.
___
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditations." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/solution.html
.
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: Did any of you actually sit through all ofThe Passion Of Christ? |
27 Jan 2005 09:53:43 PM |
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On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 22:11:31 GMT, Pastor Dave
<newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> drained his beer, leaned back
in the alt.atheism beanbag and drunkenly proclaimed the following
Actually, I applaud the work. The fact is, that Mel
Gibson didn't even show you how bad it really was. He
tamed it down for the movie. And it is about time we
get rid of the wimpy movies that show Jesus with a
little cut on his forehead.
Really? Here's what the Bible has to say about Christ's scourging.
Matthew 26:67 Then did they spit in his face, and buffeted him; and
others smote him with the palms of their hands,
Jesus gets spit upon, pushed around a bit, and slapped.
Matthew 27:26 Then released he Barabbas unto them: and when he had
scourged Jesus, he delivered him to be crucified.
Jesus gets whipped.
Matthew 27:29 And when they had platted a crown of thorns, they put
it upon his head, and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the
knee before him, and mocked him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews!
27:30 And they spit upon him, and took the reed, and smote him on the
head.
A crown of thorns, more spit, and getting whapped upside the head with
a reed.
The same basic story is repeated in all four Gospels.
Mel Gibson added so many details that it boggles the mind.
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Did any of you actually sit through all ofThe Passion Of Christ? |
27 Jan 2005 09:57:50 PM |
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"Douglas Berry" <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message
news:jedjv0lpkk373amr8g9srv5n6ad7hmliji@4ax.com...
On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 22:11:31 GMT, Pastor Dave
<newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> drained his beer, leaned back
in the alt.atheism beanbag and drunkenly proclaimed the following
Actually, I applaud the work. The fact is, that Mel
Gibson didn't even show you how bad it really was. He
tamed it down for the movie. And it is about time we
get rid of the wimpy movies that show Jesus with a
little cut on his forehead.
Really? Here's what the Bible has to say about Christ's scourging.
Matthew 26:67 Then did they spit in his face, and buffeted him; and
others smote him with the palms of their hands,
Jesus gets spit upon, pushed around a bit, and slapped.
Matthew 27:26 Then released he Barabbas unto them: and when he had
scourged Jesus, he delivered him to be crucified.
Jesus gets whipped.
Matthew 27:29 And when they had platted a crown of thorns, they put
it upon his head, and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the
knee before him, and mocked him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews!
27:30 And they spit upon him, and took the reed, and smote him on the
head.
A crown of thorns, more spit, and getting whapped upside the head with
a reed.
The same basic story is repeated in all four Gospels.
Mel Gibson added so many details that it boggles the mind.
Gee, you mean you didn't like it when they were using the cat-o-nine-tails
and you could see Jesus's ribs? Blech :P
--
---------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
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| User: "Jos Flachs" |
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| Title: Re: Did any of you actually sit through all ofThe Passion Of Christ? |
28 Jan 2005 05:32:11 PM |
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On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 03:53:43 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
The same basic story is repeated in all four Gospels.
Mel Gibson added so many details that it boggles the mind.
True. Pilate was the civil authority. I see no reason at all why he
should wear a cuirass. Unless he was going to battle - which he
wasn't.
It was not done to take your wife to your postings overseas. Yet we
see here Mrs. Pilate acting prominently.
People were certainly chastised with the rods or the cat with the 9
tails. Extremely unlikely that they would continue to beat a condemned
thus missing out his crucifixion.
Legionarii wore the lorica segmentata at that time. But not made from
leather! And, no, that wasn't a leather undress. Real padding looked
distinctly different. They wore a scarf around the neck to prevent
chaffing from the lorica - but not this way!
And on, and on and on.
Mel couldn't even be bothered to get those little details correct.
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: Did any of you actually sit through all ofThe Passion Of Christ? |
29 Jan 2005 11:31:39 AM |
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On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 06:32:11 +0700, Jos Flachs
<"wcruise"@ksc15.th.com> drained his beer, leaned back in the
alt.atheism beanbag and drunkenly proclaimed the following
Mel couldn't even be bothered to get those little details correct.
My favorite was that he had the Romans speaking Latin. These were
eastern Empire folks, they would have been speaking Greek for the most
part.
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
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| User: "Terwilliger" |
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| Title: Re: Did any of you actually sit through all ofThe Passion Of Christ? |
27 Jan 2005 04:42:55 PM |
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On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 22:11:31 GMT, Pastor Dave
<newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
Actually, I applaud the work. The fact is, that Mel
Gibson didn't even show you how bad it really was. He
tamed it down for the movie. And it is about time we
get rid of the wimpy movies that show Jesus with a
little cut on his forehead.
I also note that I doubt you would have this problem
with any other movie that showed graphic violence. You
don't like this one, because you don't want to be
accountable for your sin, which like everyone else's
caused this to happen.
You know Dave, I think this woman has you all figured out:
Those Liberal Southern Baptists!
Why Conservative Christians Fear Tolerance
By Dr. TERESA WHITEHURST
Editors' Note: This is the second of a two-part essay on Conservative
Christians. Click here to read Part One.
The new craze in conservative Christian churches is to become a bit of
a masked avenger, a spiritual action-figure, if you will. Perhaps in
keeping with all the violent game shows, action movies and reality
shows, not to mention the new fascination with war and "the army of
one", conservative Christians crave a challenge they can sink their
teeth into. That challenge is confrontational evangelism: Putting
one's intolerance into action.
But just as there's always a bigger fish, there's always a more
conservative denomination, a stricter adherence to biblical
traditions. What some people think of as conservative, others view as
liberal. Activists who incite their flock to hostility and persecution
towards "liberals" or sinners (one and the same, in their opinion)
call themselves "conservative", but that's not what we would have
called them at our little church in the wildwood many years ago.
We had quite a few bones to pick with these so-called "conservative"
churches that claim to be saving America from the liberals. In fact,
we called them liberal. They're just lucky we didn't use their methods
to impose biblical rules and standards by force, if need be.
In our Southern "holiness" church, we considered the Southern Baptists
down the road soft on sin, and headed for trouble in the hereafter.
Preachers warned, especially at revival time, of the encroaching tide
of Christian tolerance (due to the "Jewish liberal Hollywood"
influence, we were told) for things outlawed in various parts of the
Bible.
Because our family was at church every time the doors were open, I
heard what seemed a million sermons on the dangerous compromises that
other denominations were making with worldly influences and thus with
Satan himself. The list of Baptist sins, a long one, is listed here to
illustrate the dormant disagreements within conservative Christianity:
1. Their women were allowed to wear makeup
2. Baptist women styled their hair according to "Jewish/liberal
Hollywood" fashion (Some even "let their hair down" literally,
allowing their crown of glory to flow down freely, attracting male
attention, rather than keeping it off their upper potentially erotic
areas-neck, shoulders, chest and back-in modest braids, buns or what
we teens called "beehives")
3. Their women sometimes wore sleeveless dresses, and Baptist men
often wore short-sleeved shirts
4. They allowed coed swimming at Jr. High and Sr. High church camp
5. Many Baptist men smoked cigarettes when not at church
6. At the Baptist church nearest ours, members were known to go to the
movies, thus supporting the "Jewish/liberal Hollywood" industry
responsible for America's moral decay
7. On at least one occasion, their youth group held a party at the
skating rink wherein their tolerance for bodily gyrations led to
dancing
8. Baptist kids were allowed to go to prom, at which dancing is not
just allowed but encouraged
9. Shamelessly coed youth activities mingled boys and girls-and some
even included rock music (Many pregnancies resulted from these outdoor
parties and Bible study classes, after which smitten teens, fighting
powerful temptations of the flesh, drove someone of the opposite sex
home afterwards, or trailed off together to pray in some secluded
spot)
10. Baptist men were well known to cuss at their places of business
11. Every man, woman and child was almost certainly bound for hell
because of their easy one-time-only "born-again" idea, like the one to
which President Bush ascribes, which is assumed sufficient,
technically speaking, for an entire lifetime; contrasted to our weekly
repentance, this guaranteed backsliding
12. Some of their female children were allowed to wear "the clothing
of men": pants or shorts
13. Certain Baptist men claimed that beer is not technically in the
same category as "strong drink", thus can be allowed; some also played
cards (the sin of gambling)
14. Their women dressed up for church like Jezebels with stylish
clothes, sexy shoes, and even jewelry-not plain, unadorned and modest
like the kind of woman who's worth the price of many rubies
(With the unfortunate combination of pale skin and dark hair, I
particularly resented Baptists girls regarding item #1, but that is
not relevant to this discussion.)
Taking the list as a whole, one can readily see that the theme is "too
much tolerance" for things of this world. The Baptists were trying to
be good people, perhaps, but were making compromises with worldly
things; they would pay the price, come judgment day.
Gimme That Ol' Time Religion
Before the radical religious right took over American government,
tolerance of sin and sinful influences was preached against, but with
different methods and words than it is now. In the "old fashioned
religion", we were taught to follow Jesus' example in terms of
witnessing, "hating the sin", and evangelism. The goals I learned in
church, Sunday school, vacation Bible school, prayer meeting and
revival were to:
(1) share one's Christian beliefs when asked
(2) model compassion and faith in God for those who are suffering or
discouraged (Mother Teresa's work is an excellent example),
(3) go out into the world to preach the Good News (assuming one felt
"called" by God to do this), and
(4) pray for sinners and backsliders (including and especially
oneself).
More if you dare:
http://www.counterpunch.org/whitehurst01272005.html
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
Indeed.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Did any of you actually sit through all ofThe Passion Of Christ? |
28 Jan 2005 04:35:26 AM |
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Terwilliger wrote:
(1) share one's Christian beliefs when asked
(2) model compassion and faith in God for those who are suffering or
discouraged (Mother Teresa's work is an excellent example),
(3) go out into the world to preach the Good News (assuming one felt
"called" by God to do this), and
(4) pray for sinners and backsliders (including and especially
oneself).
Nah, that's wussy faith. It takes too long; requires intelligence as
well as tolerance--and worst of all, doesn't nearly satisfy
religious wingnuts' desire to punish everybody for having the nerve
to be different from them.
C.
**
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| User: "theresa" |
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| Title: Re: Did any of you actually sit through all ofThe Passion Of Christ? |
27 Jan 2005 06:02:23 PM |
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Thanks T! A great article!
Terwilliger wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 22:11:31 GMT, Pastor Dave
<newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
Actually, I applaud the work. The fact is, that Mel
Gibson didn't even show you how bad it really was. He
tamed it down for the movie. And it is about time we
get rid of the wimpy movies that show Jesus with a
little cut on his forehead.
I also note that I doubt you would have this problem
with any other movie that showed graphic violence. You
don't like this one, because you don't want to be
accountable for your sin, which like everyone else's
caused this to happen.
You know Dave, I think this woman has you all figured out:
Those Liberal Southern Baptists!
Why Conservative Christians Fear Tolerance
By Dr. TERESA WHITEHURST
Editors' Note: This is the second of a two-part essay on Conservative
Christians. Click here to read Part One.
The new craze in conservative Christian churches is to become a bit of
a masked avenger, a spiritual action-figure, if you will. Perhaps in
keeping with all the violent game shows, action movies and reality
shows, not to mention the new fascination with war and "the army of
one", conservative Christians crave a challenge they can sink their
teeth into. That challenge is confrontational evangelism: Putting
one's intolerance into action.
But just as there's always a bigger fish, there's always a more
conservative denomination, a stricter adherence to biblical
traditions. What some people think of as conservative, others view as
liberal. Activists who incite their flock to hostility and persecution
towards "liberals" or sinners (one and the same, in their opinion)
call themselves "conservative", but that's not what we would have
called them at our little church in the wildwood many years ago.
We had quite a few bones to pick with these so-called "conservative"
churches that claim to be saving America from the liberals. In fact,
we called them liberal. They're just lucky we didn't use their methods
to impose biblical rules and standards by force, if need be.
In our Southern "holiness" church, we considered the Southern Baptists
down the road soft on sin, and headed for trouble in the hereafter.
Preachers warned, especially at revival time, of the encroaching tide
of Christian tolerance (due to the "Jewish liberal Hollywood"
influence, we were told) for things outlawed in various parts of the
Bible.
Because our family was at church every time the doors were open, I
heard what seemed a million sermons on the dangerous compromises that
other denominations were making with worldly influences and thus with
Satan himself. The list of Baptist sins, a long one, is listed here to
illustrate the dormant disagreements within conservative Christianity:
1. Their women were allowed to wear makeup
2. Baptist women styled their hair according to "Jewish/liberal
Hollywood" fashion (Some even "let their hair down" literally,
allowing their crown of glory to flow down freely, attracting male
attention, rather than keeping it off their upper potentially erotic
areas-neck, shoulders, chest and back-in modest braids, buns or what
we teens called "beehives")
3. Their women sometimes wore sleeveless dresses, and Baptist men
often wore short-sleeved shirts
4. They allowed coed swimming at Jr. High and Sr. High church camp
5. Many Baptist men smoked cigarettes when not at church
6. At the Baptist church nearest ours, members were known to go to the
movies, thus supporting the "Jewish/liberal Hollywood" industry
responsible for America's moral decay
7. On at least one occasion, their youth group held a party at the
skating rink wherein their tolerance for bodily gyrations led to
dancing
8. Baptist kids were allowed to go to prom, at which dancing is not
just allowed but encouraged
9. Shamelessly coed youth activities mingled boys and girls-and some
even included rock music (Many pregnancies resulted from these outdoor
parties and Bible study classes, after which smitten teens, fighting
powerful temptations of the flesh, drove someone of the opposite sex
home afterwards, or trailed off together to pray in some secluded
spot)
10. Baptist men were well known to cuss at their places of business
11. Every man, woman and child was almost certainly bound for hell
because of their easy one-time-only "born-again" idea, like the one to
which President Bush ascribes, which is assumed sufficient,
technically speaking, for an entire lifetime; contrasted to our weekly
repentance, this guaranteed backsliding
12. Some of their female children were allowed to wear "the clothing
of men": pants or shorts
13. Certain Baptist men claimed that beer is not technically in the
same category as "strong drink", thus can be allowed; some also played
cards (the sin of gambling)
14. Their women dressed up for church like Jezebels with stylish
clothes, sexy shoes, and even jewelry-not plain, unadorned and modest
like the kind of woman who's worth the price of many rubies
(With the unfortunate combination of pale skin and dark hair, I
particularly resented Baptists girls regarding item #1, but that is
not relevant to this discussion.)
Taking the list as a whole, one can readily see that the theme is "too
much tolerance" for things of this world. The Baptists were trying to
be good people, perhaps, but were making compromises with worldly
things; they would pay the price, come judgment day.
Gimme That Ol' Time Religion
Before the radical religious right took over American government,
tolerance of sin and sinful influences was preached against, but with
different methods and words than it is now. In the "old fashioned
religion", we were taught to follow Jesus' example in terms of
witnessing, "hating the sin", and evangelism. The goals I learned in
church, Sunday school, vacation Bible school, prayer meeting and
revival were to:
(1) share one's Christian beliefs when asked
(2) model compassion and faith in God for those who are suffering or
discouraged (Mother Teresa's work is an excellent example),
(3) go out into the world to preach the Good News (assuming one felt
"called" by God to do this), and
(4) pray for sinners and backsliders (including and especially
oneself).
More if you dare:
http://www.counterpunch.org/whitehurst01272005.html
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
Indeed.
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| User: "David Johnston" |
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| Title: Re: Did any of you actually sit through all ofThe Passion Of Christ? |
27 Jan 2005 06:33:49 PM |
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On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 22:11:31 GMT, Pastor Dave
<newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 16:07:19 -0500, after pondering
deep thoughts, "Napolean Dynamite/ w Deb" <Hey Deb,
Wanna See My Liger? It's Pretty Much My Favorite Animal
Bread For It's Skills In Magic> spake thusly:
I watched an hour or so and then had enough. I mean how many times can I
watch a guy get whipped, punched, beaten to a bloody pulp, and have his
torso ripped in half? It was way too much and if Mel Gibson thinks he
deserves an award for projecting his bloodthirsty, gory fantasies on to a
movie screen for 3 grueling, arduous hours then he's a kook.
Actually, I applaud the work. The fact is, that Mel
Gibson didn't even show you how bad it really was. He
tamed it down for the movie. And it is about time we
get rid of the wimpy movies that show Jesus with a
little cut on his forehead.
I also note that I doubt you would have this problem
with any other movie that showed graphic violence.
Watching a man being tortured for hours? Thanks, I'll pass no matter
what the subject is. I avoided the death scene in Robocop, and that
was nothing by comparison.
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| User: "Cosmic Dawg, Legally Blond" |
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| Title: Re: Did any of you actually sit through all ofThe Passion Of Christ? |
27 Jan 2005 10:44:32 PM |
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On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 22:11:31 GMT, Pastor Dave
<newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 16:07:19 -0500, after pondering
deep thoughts, "Napolean Dynamite/ w Deb" <Hey Deb,
Wanna See My Liger? It's Pretty Much My Favorite Animal
Bread For It's Skills In Magic> spake thusly:
I watched an hour or so and then had enough. I mean how many times can I
watch a guy get whipped, punched, beaten to a bloody pulp, and have his
torso ripped in half? It was way too much and if Mel Gibson thinks he
deserves an award for projecting his bloodthirsty, gory fantasies on to a
movie screen for 3 grueling, arduous hours then he's a kook.
Actually, I applaud the work. The fact is, that Mel
Gibson didn't even show you how bad it really was. He
tamed it down for the movie. And it is about time we
get rid of the wimpy movies that show Jesus with a
little cut on his forehead.
I also note that I doubt you would have this problem
with any other movie that showed graphic violence. You
don't like this one, because you don't want to be
accountable for your sin, which like everyone else's
caused this to happen.
You do realize I hope, that the entire film is fiction.
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditations." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/solution.html
--
http://www.freeiPods.com/default.aspx?referer=7673803
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| User: "Phoenix" |
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| Title: Re: Did any of you actually sit through all ofThe Passion Of Christ? |
28 Jan 2005 12:42:21 AM |
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In article <togjv05ka7q7jipebno14dk2ua6r4tj5en@4ax.com>,
CosmicDawgISaFAKEaddress@anywhere.net says...
On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 22:11:31 GMT, Pastor Dave
<newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 16:07:19 -0500, after pondering
deep thoughts, "Napolean Dynamite/ w Deb" <Hey Deb,
Wanna See My Liger? It's Pretty Much My Favorite Animal
Bread For It's Skills In Magic> spake thusly:
I watched an hour or so and then had enough. I mean how many times can I
watch a guy get whipped, punched, beaten to a bloody pulp, and have his
torso ripped in half? It was way too much and if Mel Gibson thinks he
deserves an award for projecting his bloodthirsty, gory fantasies on to a
movie screen for 3 grueling, arduous hours then he's a kook.
Actually, I applaud the work. The fact is, that Mel
Gibson didn't even show you how bad it really was. He
tamed it down for the movie. And it is about time we
get rid of the wimpy movies that show Jesus with a
little cut on his forehead.
I also note that I doubt you would have this problem
with any other movie that showed graphic violence. You
don't like this one, because you don't want to be
accountable for your sin, which like everyone else's
caused this to happen.
You do realize I hope, that the entire film is fiction.
I don't think he does. Nor do most of the people who saw it. Scary,
ain't it.
bel
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditations." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/solution.html
--
http://www.freeiPods.com/default.aspx?referer=7673803
.
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| User: "Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Did any of you actually sit through all ofThe Passion Of Christ? |
16 Feb 2005 02:52:04 PM |
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Pastor Dave <newsgroupm...@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
"Napolean Dynamite/ w Deb" <Hey Deb,Wanna> wrote:
I watched an hour or so and then had enough. I mean how many
times can I watch a guy get whipped, punched, beaten to a bloody
pulp [...]
Actually, I applaud the work. The fact is, that Mel Gibson didn't
even show you how bad it really was. [...]
It was merely "suicide by cop."
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| User: "Susan Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: Did any of you actually sit through all ofThe Passion Of Christ? |
17 Feb 2005 06:13:27 AM |
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"Dave" <galt_57@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1108587124.897853.133430@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Pastor Dave <newsgroupm...@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
"Napolean Dynamite/ w Deb" <Hey Deb,Wanna> wrote:
I watched an hour or so and then had enough. I mean how many
times can I watch a guy get whipped, punched, beaten to a bloody
pulp [...]
Actually, I applaud the work. The fact is, that Mel Gibson didn't
even show you how bad it really was.
Well, this says a LOT, right here.
[...]
It was merely "suicide by cop."
It was a story, without any evidence, & Gibson himself knew it, for he chose
to embellish it with writers over a thousand years past the time of events
portrayed.
Susan
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Did any of you actually sit through all ofThe Passion Of Christ? |
17 Feb 2005 09:08:06 AM |
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On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 12:13:27 GMT, after pondering deep
thoughts, "Susan Cohen" <flavia13@verizon.net> spake
thusly:
"Dave" <galt_57@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1108587124.897853.133430@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Pastor Dave <newsgroupm...@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
"Napolean Dynamite/ w Deb" <Hey Deb,Wanna> wrote:
I watched an hour or so and then had enough. I mean how many
times can I watch a guy get whipped, punched, beaten to a bloody
pulp [...]
Actually, I applaud the work. The fact is, that Mel Gibson didn't
even show you how bad it really was.
Well, this says a LOT, right here.
Yes, it does. It happened and Mel didn't even show how
bad it really was. Listen, if you can't face up to
what your people did, that's your problem. Don't try
to make it everyone else's issue.
The fact is, you don't like what happened, because you
know it was wrong and you lack conviction and courage.
If Jesus was not who He said He was, then the Jews were
right to condemn Him, even though He did nothing worthy
of death and should have spent time in prison. Yet you
don't take that stance? Why not? Simple, because you
know it was a tainted trial. They couldn't find
anything to convict Him on and His words stood up to
the test, which is why they had to bring false
witnesses in.
You know, in you heart, that your people had Him
crucified without cause. And in doing so, they
rejected their God and shouted that there is no king
but Caesar, demanding Jesus' crucifixion.
This angers you and so, you spew hatred toward anyone
who knows about it and believes. It reminds you of
what your people did and you hate them for that,
because now it's something you have to live with.
So what do you do? You try to pretend that it never
actually happened. Of course you know better and have
nothing to base that assertion on and you know the
evidence, which was even documented by your own people
in sources other than the NT, flies in the face of what
you claim.
It was merely "suicide by cop."
It was a story, without any evidence, & Gibson himself knew it, for he chose
to embellish it with writers over a thousand years past the time of events
portrayed.
The fact is, you are a liar. Even in Jewish writings,
we read of Jesus. And FYI, the NT documents are Jewish
writings as well. It's not a Gentile Gospel. It's a
Jewish Gospel. It was extended to everyone though.
You see, you really have nothing to worry about, if you
repent. Don't forget Jesus' words on the cross...
"Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do."
There is forgiveness. And you can let go of all of the
hate that you feel for others and more importantly, the
hate that you feel for yourself and for your people,
which we both know, is brewing deep down inside you.
First, of course, you must come to Him confessing your
sin and your sinful nature and confess Him as Lord. I
guarantee you, He will remove that burden for you.
That awful, heavy, heavy burden that's been like a ton
of bricks in you chest, weighing you down, making you
sad and depressed and angry.
And now, as I said, goodbye. The words above are all
you need, except for the following...
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only
begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should
not perish, but have everlasting life." - John 3:16
"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord
Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath
raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
- Romans 10:9
Paul, a Jew, felt for his people and wished that he
could be accursed, if it meant saving his fellow Jews..
Romans 9:1-3
1) I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience
also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
2) That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in
my heart.
3) For I could wish that myself were accursed from
Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the
flesh:
Yet they tried to kill him too. More than once.
Repent and be saved.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditations." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/solution.html
.
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| User: "Susan Cohen" |
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| Title: Pastor Dave Exposes Himself Without a Raincoat WAS: Did any of you actually sit through all ofThe Passion Of Christ? |
17 Feb 2005 09:51:56 AM |
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"Pastor Dave" <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:8ub9119u4nprusu9gfbrt0kbm66m53jgoi@4ax.com...
Listen, if you can't face up to
what your people did, that's your problem.
Thanks for proving everything we have ever said about you.
There isn't a genuine church on the face of the earth that throws this
deicide blood libel around.
Don't try
to make it everyone else's issue.
And another projectionary strawman.
We aren't the ones running around forcing our religious fantasies on
everyone else - you're doing that.
The fact is, you don't like what happened, because you
know it was wrong and you lack conviction and courage.
This would be funny, if you weren't serious.
The fact is that you can't prove anything that you say & it's making you
rabid with hate and anger.
If Jesus was not who He said He was, then the Jews were
right to condemn Him,
This is so totally wrong that it betrays your complete inability to discuss
this factually.
Aside from the facts that you can't prove that any of it happened, or that
we had anything to do with it if it did, you display a complete ignorance of
Judaism, both religiously & historically.
We've had false Moshiachs - and not a one of them was ever "condemned" much
less to death. Thinking you are Moshiach is NOT a crime in Judaism. And as
far as heresy goes, we've had *tons* of those. And the way we deal with them
is not in the half-baked way you pretend we would have. It not only goes
against Jewish law to set up a Jew for a non-religious condemnation for a
religious offense, it goes against the internal logic of your story. If the
priests were so powerful & afraid of Jesus, they would have held an OPEN
trial for heresy & exposed him as a fraud and a nobody, or a whacko or a
heretic. All of these outvcomes would have ruined him in the way *you* say
he was important. To have done it the way you said they did makes them
*stupid* & *inept* - so on which basis is your story wrong? It has to be one
or the other.
even though He did nothing worthy
of death and should have spent time in prison.
If the Romans were really afraid of him, which I doubt, since they have no
record of him, then yes, he should have either been imprisoned or killed.
But we weren't - there was no need, as I point out above.
Yet you
don't take that stance? Why not? Simple, because you
know it was a tainted trial.
Wrong on all counts.
I don't take a false stance because I know how things *would* have happened
had *any* part of the story been true.
They couldn't find
anything to convict Him on and His words stood up to
the test,
Only according to your story was there any "conviction" of anything
"necessary.
which is why they had to bring false
witnesses in.
Only according to your story, completely unproven - which fact you hate.
You know, in you heart, that your people had Him
crucified without cause.
Of course not.
I know in my heart that the whole thing is a put-up job written by people no
less than 60 years after the supposed events.
It is yo uwho knows in your heart that everything I am saying is true, and
*that's* why you call it "hate" and "attacks" because you don't want it to
be true.
And in doing so, they
rejected their God and shouted that there is no king
but Caesar, demanding Jesus' crucifixion.
And this is yet another incident where your story fails against itself, and
accepted facts.
Moshiach is not supposed to be a King, our G-d will never demean Himself by
incarnating Himself as a human - never mind the whole Perseus-myth-rip-off
"virgin birth" story. And Moshiach will certainly not be G-d or a
manifestation of G-d - nor would He ever need to make a human being have a
"baby" of His. That would be *demeaning* to Him.
These are just a very few of the many ways in which it is proven that the
man in the sotry you tell could never have been Moshiach, much less G-d.
This angers you and so, you spew hatred toward anyone
who knows about it and believes.
You are the one spewing hate because you know that there isn't a single part
of your story that doesn't completely clash with its own internal logic:
either that of contradicting the laws on which it is supposedly based, or
contradicting the very characters crafted to make the sootry go in the way
you need it to go.
It reminds you of
what your people did and you hate them for that,
because now it's something you have to live with.
You go from false premise to false conclusion.
If anything, I hate the people who still spew the lie at me pretending that
I have to pay for something they made up because they hate *us*. Their kind
of hatred is just plain sick, & needs to be eradicated.
So what do you do? You try to pretend that it never
actually happened.
No, I do not have to pretend anything of the sort.
It is you who are pretending.
You are desperate to do so, in face of all the historical evidence to the
contrary, because if you don't, your entire life is worthless. The minute
you see this isn;t necessarily so, you will be able to drop the anger &
hate - tho' I doubt it, since it's really anger and hate at yourself for
being so gullible as to believe a story so full of holes that pretty much
disproves itself....
Of course you know better and have
nothing to base that assertion on
except the truth - which is what angers you so, and fills you with hate.
and you know the
evidence, which was even documented by your own people
in sources other than the NT, flies in the face of what
you claim.
The fact that you pretend this is so is only evidence that you need to
pretend it is so.
There isn;t a single historian whodoesn;t have a religious axe to grind who
will agree with you.
It was merely "suicide by cop."
It was a story, without any evidence, & Gibson himself knew it, for he
chose
to embellish it with writers over a thousand years past the time of events
portrayed.
The fact is, you are a liar.
The fact is that you wish I were.
Even in Jewish writings,
we read of Jesus.
No, we do not.
And FYI, the NT documents are Jewish
writings as well.
Of course they aren't.
Just because you want to say that his followers were Jewish doesn't mean
anything, because 60 years - the time betwen the supposed events and the
time the first version of them was written down - is *plenty* of time for a
man to marry a gentile women (no self-respecting Jewish one would arry a
heretical Jew) & have a non-Jewish child to write down what his father told
him was true. Or grandfather.
It's not a Gentile Gospel. It's a
Jewish Gospel.
Abaolutly untrue.
If it were a Jewish religious writing, it wouldn;t so totally contradict
jewish law.
It was extended to everyone though.
You see, you really have nothing to worry about
I never said i did.
It is you who are worrying - all this hatred & anger that manifests itself
in lies, denial & projectionism is proof that *you* know *you* are the one
who must worry.
, if you
repent.
I have nothing to repent *of*, however much you have to pretend I do.
Don't forget Jesus' words on the cross...
I'm not the one who worships him - I have no need of remembering anything he
is supposed to have said.
"Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do."
Funny, you are the one who swears that we *did* know whaqt we were doing!
You prove your faith to be even more self-contraditory than even I thought.
There is forgiveness. And you can let go of all of the
hate that you feel for others and more importantly, the
hate that you feel for yourself and for your people,
which we both know, is brewing deep down inside you.
And Jesus also supposedly said "Physician, heal thyself."
You would do well to heed these words when you spout this crap.
First, of course, you must
[snip rest of foul missionizing, laced with the projecitonism of your own
fault]
I would never commit so great a sin as to abandon G-d for your fairy tales.
I would rather die first - and I'm sure you wouldn't mind that, either.
Susan
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| User: "Ash" |
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| Title: Re: Pastor Dave Exposes Himself Without a Raincoat WAS: Did any ofyou actually sit through all ofThe Passion Of Christ? |
17 Feb 2005 11:33:21 AM |
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Susan Cohen wrote:
"Pastor Dave" <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:8ub9119u4nprusu9gfbrt0kbm66m53jgoi@4ax.com...
Even in Jewish writings,
we read of Jesus.
No, we do not.
Well, there is a story in the Talmud about a false Messiah who practiced
witchcraft he learned in Egypt and was hanged for it. I think many
christians take this as a Jewish response to Christianity, but many of
the details differ so it is not at all clear if this is so
.
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| User: "Susan Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: Pastor Dave Exposes Himself Without a Raincoat WAS: Did any of you actually sit through all ofThe Passion Of Christ? |
17 Feb 2005 02:31:55 PM |
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"Ash" <ashamanic@winterfell73.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:cv2kh1$kje$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
Susan Cohen wrote:
"Pastor Dave" <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:8ub9119u4nprusu9gfbrt0kbm66m53jgoi@4ax.com...
Even in Jewish writings,
we read of Jesus.
No, we do not.
Well, there is a story in the Talmud about a false Messiah who practiced
witchcraft he learned in Egypt and was hanged for it. I think many
christians take this as a Jewish response to Christianity, but many of the
details differ so it is not at all clear if this is so
It's clear that it absolutely isn't him.
Susan
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| User: "Susan Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: Did any of you actually sit through all ofThe Passion Of Christ? |
17 Feb 2005 09:13:46 AM |
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"Pastor Dave" <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:8ub9119u4nprusu9gfbrt0kbm66m53jgoi@4ax.com...
On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 12:13:27 GMT, after pondering deep
thoughts, "Susan Cohen" <flavia13@verizon.net> spake
thusly:
And how long was this after he said "Goodbye"?
"Dave" <galt_57@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1108587124.897853.133430@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Pastor Dave <newsgroupm...@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
"Napolean Dynamite/ w Deb" <Hey Deb,Wanna> wrote:
I watched an hour or so and then had enough. I mean how many
times can I watch a guy get whipped, punched, beaten to a bloody
pulp [...]
Actually, I applaud the work. The fact is, that Mel Gibson didn't
even show you how bad it really was.
Well, this says a LOT, right here.
Yes, it does. It happened
Not that you can prove
and Mel didn't even show how
bad it really was.
IOW, both "Pastor Dave" and Mel Gibson share the same sadomasochistic
tendencies
[snip rest of anti-semitic fantasies]
Susan
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| User: "RAYPHOS" |
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| Title: Re: Did any of you actually sit through all ofThe Passion Of Christ? |
01 Mar 2005 09:06:42 PM |
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"Susan Cohen"
I would recommend that you be very very careful with what
you say!
Your statements concerning Jesus's death could come close
to the unpardonable sin. Especially, if you believed that
Jesus is the Son
of God who suffered to free us from the slavery of sin and
the
penalty of permanent death. And you still malign despite
the
fact the "red" words of Jesus spoke, you are already lost!
--
Best regards
RAYPHOS
Fax (01) 514-3724199
RayPhos@bigfoot.com
=========================
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| User: "Susan Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: Did any of you actually sit through all ofThe Passion Of Christ? |
01 Mar 2005 10:49:04 PM |
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"RAYPHOS" <RAYPHOS@BigFoot.com> wrote in message
news:482dnUrkc7ZtsrjfRVn-qw@look.ca...
"Susan Cohen"
I would recommend that you be very very careful with what
you say!
I assure you that I am quite careful about what I say.
Your statements concerning Jesus's death could come close
to the unpardonable sin.
No, they couldn't possibly
Especially, if you believed that
Jesus [snip missionizing]
I absolutely don't believe in anything that contradicts Torah as strongly as
that story does.
Susan
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| User: "Visscher" |
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| Title: Re: Did any of you actually sit through all ofThe Passion Of Christ? |
02 Mar 2005 04:26:00 AM |
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I guess you all have been reading
the fiction thriller The Da Vicy Code
It has gon into your minds.
I see
Pastor reverend Albert Visscher
----- Original Message -----
From: "RAYPHOS" <RAYPHOS@BigFoot.com>
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.bible.prophecy
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 3:06 AM
Subject: Re: Did any of you actually sit through all ofThe Passion Of
Christ?
"Susan Cohen"
I would recommend that you be very very careful with what
you say!
Your statements concerning Jesus's death could come close
to the unpardonable sin. Especially, if you believed that
Jesus is the Son
of God who suffered to free us from the slavery of sin and
the
penalty of permanent death. And you still malign despite
the
fact the "red" words of Jesus spoke, you are already lost!
--
Best regards
RAYPHOS
Fax (01) 514-3724199
RayPhos@bigfoot.com
=========================
"Susan Cohen" <flavia13@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:4BbVd.53027$uc.8297@trnddc03...
"RAYPHOS" <RAYPHOS@BigFoot.com> wrote in message
news:482dnUrkc7ZtsrjfRVn-qw@look.ca...
"Susan Cohen"
I would recommend that you be very very careful with what
you say!
I assure you that I am quite careful about what I say.
Your statements concerning Jesus's death could come close
to the unpardonable sin.
No, they couldn't possibly
Especially, if you believed that
Jesus [snip missionizing]
I absolutely don't believe in anything that contradicts Torah as strongly
as that story does.
Susan
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| User: "Ash" |
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| Title: Re: Did any of you actually sit through all ofThe Passion Of Christ? |
02 Mar 2005 09:43:50 AM |
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Visscher wrote:
I guess you all have been reading
the fiction thriller The Da Vicy Code
It has gon into your minds.
I see
Pastor reverend Albert Visscher
I suspect she has been reading (the) Torah. Why would you possibly
think Da Vincy code has anything to do with it
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| User: "Susan Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: Did any of you actually sit through all ofThe Passion Of Christ? |
02 Mar 2005 10:09:45 PM |
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"Ash" <ashamanic@winterfell73.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:d04mvb$6v7$2@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
Visscher wrote:
I guess you all have been reading
the fiction thriller The Da Vicy Code
It has gon into your minds.
I see
Pastor reverend Albert Visscher
I suspect she has been reading (the) Torah. Why would you possibly think
Da Vincy code has anything to do with it
Or that reading the Torah has in any way been detrimental to me.
Susan
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Did any of you actually sit through all ofThe Passion Of Christ? |
03 Mar 2005 01:10:14 AM |
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Were you a Jewish-supremacist bigot before you read the Torah?
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| User: "R?ain - ריעין" |
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| Title: Re: Did any of you actually sit through all ofThe Passion Of Christ? |
03 Mar 2005 01:21:42 AM |
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I have always read the TORAH!
<greebo@volcanomail.com> wrote in message
news:1109833814.467166.142240@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
: Were you a Jewish-supremacist bigot before you read the Torah?
:
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| User: "R?ain - ריעין" |
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| Title: Re: Did any of you actually sit through all ofThe Passion Of Christ? |
01 Mar 2005 09:52:14 PM |
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God did not have sexual relations with any woman!!!
It is a complete fallacy and a well-known PAGAN religious concept!
Jesus more than likely was a complete myth, if not, he was not a rabbi,
and he was most certainly not the messiah, nor divine.
Humans are not enslaved in sin, that would go against what God is and
what God is about, therefore we do not need to be freed from it.
You do not need to believe that any human is divine in order to be
reincarnated or resurrected by God. God does not need to rely on any
human to fulfil Universal Divine Will.
All humans are the "children" of God as we all have God give souls.
We are equal and are not born with original sin or any other kind of
sin. Children cannot be held responsible for anything that they cannot
reason to be wrong. The same goes for any human that is mentally or
emotionally or physically impaired. Do you think God punished innocent
people?
Jesus did not speak a single word that was written in "red".
I suggest you get an education in New Testament Studies, Biblical Text
Studies, Biblical Archaeology, Philosophy, Physics, and LOGIC!
"RAYPHOS" <RAYPHOS@BigFoot.com> wrote in message
news:482dnUrkc7ZtsrjfRVn-qw@look.ca...
: "Susan Cohen"
:
: I would recommend that you be very very careful with what
: you say!
:
: Your statements concerning Jesus's death could come close
: to the unpardonable sin. Especially, if you believed that
: Jesus is the Son
: of God who suffered to free us from the slavery of sin and
: the
: penalty of permanent death. And you still malign despite
: the
: fact the "red" words of Jesus spoke, you are already lost!
: --
: Best regards
: RAYPHOS
: Fax (01) 514-3724199
:
: =========================
:
:
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