Denis Loubet wrote:

"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5tgHd.59219$Ew6.21261@twister.socal.rr.com...

Denis Loubet wrote:

"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:tecHd.71879$gd.11291@twister.socal.rr.com...

Denis Loubet wrote:

"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:iE3Hd.71860$gd.66581@twister.socal.rr.com...

Denis Loubet wrote:

"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:u32Hd.71858$gd.28421@twister.socal.rr.com...

Gregory A Greenman wrote:

In article <EuxGd.69908$gd.56634@twister.socal.rr.com>, Jason
Gastrich <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> declared...

SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim? wrote:

Did you know that the largest number of people saved from
the path of the tsunami was due to a 10 year old girl from
North America who remembered something from a geography
lesson

what, a geography lesson?, you mean it wasn't because of
"god the savior"?

The tsunami was a gigantic tragedy and my prayers go to all
of the living victims. However, do you realize that God
doesn't increase death? 1 out of every 1 person dies.

Of course that begs the question of why we have to die at all.
If there really were an all powerful god that loved us, it
seems to me that we wouldn't have to die.

Our souls won't die. Our earthly bodies will, though.

Why? What's the point of the earthly bodies dying?

You're right about living forever . . . but not on Earth and
not in the flesh.

Why not on earth, and why not in the flesh?

Hi Denis,

Have you read the scriptures?

There are some things that are explained to us in the Bible.
There are other things that are conjecture. For instance, I
could give you some reasons for the answers I gave above, but
they'd be from my own reasoning based on the scriptural truth.
You could probably come up with the same answers as me, but I'd
be happy to share if you wish.

So in other words, you have no answer to my questions.

No. As I said, I have plenty of answers.

But they only beg more questions.

Have you read the scriptures? You seem to have forgotten or
avoided that question.

You haven't answered my question yet.

But I'll answer yours.

No. No one has presented any evidence that reading it would be of
any value whatsoever.

I'm sorry you feel this way.

Do you realize that it is the best-selling book in the world?

No. I shall have to research this claim. I am aware that many bibles
are given away, and left in hotel rooms. I am also aware that many
purchased bibles are never read. I do not know the proportion of
bibles these practices account for. If your claim turns out to be
true, that would constitute evidence that the bible may be or value.

Yes, please do. Found anything so far?

I have read small portions of the bible, and spoken to many
Christians. I remain skeptical as to the value of the book as it
claims many untrue things.

Can you verify that it claims many untrue things? Or do you just believe
it?

In other words, do you simply disagree with claims regarding the
distant past or do you have solid proof that certain claims are false?

There are many reasons why the earthly bodies die. God wanted us
to choose
Him. He gives us a duration of time to do this. Most people have
from the
time that they are born until the time that their earthly body
dies.

That can be mere moments to 100+ years. Does that seem fair to you?

I understand God's laws and his justice, so yes. He is the Creator
and the
rightful giver and taker of life. We are the creation who have
sinned against Him. Therefore, it is his right to give and take
life as He sees fit.

So the god is exempt from the rules it sets down for others. Yet the
rules it sets down are supposed to be the basis of morality. This
clearly indicates the god is not moral. Why do you worship an immoral
or amoral god?

God has a nature and a character.

And yes, He doesn't have to follow every
law He gave to man. However, this doesn't make Him immoral or amoral.

As the Creator of life, it is his privilege to also take life as He sees
fit. This is not immoral. This is divine justice.

Also, you claim to understand the god's laws and its justice, enough
to say that it is fair. Does this mean you can tell who is due for a
short or long life?

I can sometimes do this.

However, all have sinned, so all deserve justice
and all are very blessed when we receive grace instead.

If not, does your yes response simply mean you arbitrarily agree with
every judgment the god makes? In other words, you could claim a
judgment from the god is fair, but have no idea why. Is this the case?

Also, you have provided no reason for the body to die. The death of
the body has nothing to do with the choice, does it? Why would a
time limit make a difference?

I provided a reason in a more recent post of mine. The answer is
sin. Read
that post for an explanation.

The obvious reply would be "forgiveness".

The death of our earthly bodies symbolizes the weakness of man.

Surely the creations of the god operate exactly as designed by the
god. Omniscience and omnipotence would assure that. Why did the god
deliberately make us weak?

So we would rely on Him for strength.

So the god creates the problem and set itself up as the solution. This
tactic is called a protection racket. Choose one way, and everything
is fine, choose the other, and things go very badly.

Saying that God created the problem isn't exactly correct.

He created all
things. His creation chose sin.

Afterwards, He implemented a plan of
redemption.

It all depends on whether you are willing to capitulate to a bully.

In our best
efforts, we can only live a brief time. In all of our scientific
advances and even with modern medicine, we still can't live over
150 years. It reveals our serious need for redemption and eternal
life from our Creator.

Or more science and modern medicine. Are you saying that as medicine
increases our lifespans, we are less and less in need of redemption?

No. I told you that human weakness and the brevity of life revealed
how we
needed salvation and eternal life from our Creator.

But that clearly means that if we can extend our life spans and
correct our weaknesses, then we DON'T need salvation and eternal life
from our creator.

You're taking my simple analogy to an extreme that makes it incorrect.

Even if we could lead a sinless life, which nobody every will, we still
have
imputed sin from Adam that we inherit.

Extending our lifespans will never grant us eternal life.

If not, then our lifespan does not mean what you are trying to
suggest it means.

How do you figure?

You stated quite clearly that a short life span revealed a need for
redemption. Obviously, that means a longer life span reveals less of
a need for redemption, does it not?

As I said, I made a simple analogy and you are taking it to an extreme
that
makes it incorrect.

If that's the case, then you are trying to lie to me.

How do you figure?

Because you are holding up a short life span as a reason for
redemption, yet when that reason is satisfied by a longer life span,
you refuse to abandon the need for redemption. Clearly you do NOT
feel a short life span reveals a need for redemption even though you
say you do.

From the beginning, the scriptures have told us that the Earth will
not last
forever.

Why doesn't the god make it last forever?

I don't know.

The Bible has told us about Heaven and how Heaven will be the
eternal destination of believers.

Why didn't the god just make believers already in heaven?

It wasn't His plan.

He wanted us to choose Him on Earth, so we could live in Heaven with
Him.

The word "so" in your answer means that we living in heaven with the
god is the ultimate goal the god is after. There is no reason the god
could not simply create that end state. The plan is unnecessary. The
idea of a plan is meaningless to an omnipotent being. It means you
have to go through steps to get the desired result, and omnipotent
beings don't have to do that, they just create the desired result.

This is nothing more than you saying you don't like His plan.

With all due
respect, this is quite common among atheists.

Do you realize that it is the best-selling book in the world?

No. I shall have to research this claim. I am aware that many bibles
are given away, and left in hotel rooms. I am also aware that many
purchased bibles are never read. I do not know the proportion of
bibles these practices account for. If your claim turns out to be
true, that would constitute evidence that the bible may be or value.

Yes, please do. Found anything so far?

I have read small portions of the bible, and spoken to many
Christians. I remain skeptical as to the value of the book as it
claims many untrue things.

Can you verify that it claims many untrue things?

Or do you just believe
it? In other words, do you simply disagree with claims regarding the
distant past or do you have solid proof that certain claims are false?

So the god is exempt from the rules it sets down for others. Yet the
rules it sets down are supposed to be the basis of morality. This
clearly indicates the god is not moral. Why do you worship an immoral
or amoral god?

God has a nature and a character. And yes, He doesn't have to follow every
law He gave to man. However, this doesn't make Him immoral or amoral.

As the Creator of life, it is his privilege to also take life as He sees
fit. This is not immoral. This is divine justice.

Also, you claim to understand the god's laws and its justice, enough
to say that it is fair. Does this mean you can tell who is due for a
short or long life?

I can sometimes do this. However, all have sinned, so all deserve justice
and all are very blessed when we receive grace instead.

So the god creates the problem and set itself up as the solution. This
tactic is called a protection racket. Choose one way, and everything
is fine, choose the other, and things go very badly.

Saying that God created the problem isn't exactly correct. He created all
things. His creation chose sin. Afterwards, He implemented a plan of
redemption.

But that clearly means that if we can extend our life spans and
correct our weaknesses, then we DON'T need salvation and eternal life
from our creator.

You're taking my simple analogy to an extreme that makes it incorrect.

Even if we could lead a sinless life, which nobody every will, we still have
imputed sin from Adam that we inherit.

Extending our lifespans will never grant us eternal life.

You stated quite clearly that a short life span revealed a need for
redemption. Obviously, that means a longer life span reveals less of
a need for redemption, does it not?

As I said, I made a simple analogy and you are taking it to an extreme that
makes it incorrect.

The word "so" in your answer means that we living in heaven with the
god is the ultimate goal the god is after. There is no reason the god
could not simply create that end state. The plan is unnecessary. The
idea of a plan is meaningless to an omnipotent being. It means you
have to go through steps to get the desired result, and omnipotent
beings don't have to do that, they just create the desired result.

This is nothing more than you saying you don't like His plan. With all due
respect, this is quite common among atheists.