| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"david ford" |
| Date: |
01 Oct 2003 12:02:08 AM |
| Object: |
Re: Quote Mine Project - Part II |
Correct me if I am wrong, Charles & Mambo, but you believe that
life came from non-life in the distant past, correct?
What is the basis for your belief that life came from non-life?
Perhaps partly your atheism?
How do evolutionary biologists "know" that life came from
non-life via non-intelligence-directed processes?:
Haeckel; Goodrich; Wells, J. Huxley, & Wells;
Simpson; Sagan; Dawkins
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=Pine.SGI.3.96A.990812214926.974808E-100000%40umbc8.umbc.edu
Gould, Davies, Yockey, Thaxton
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=Pine.SGI.3.96A.990510174524.238430A-100000%40umbc8.umbc.edu
An irrelevant "abiogenesis" paper
2nd from the bottom link at:
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=Pine.SGI.4.44L.01.0307231113280.765971-100000%40irix2.gl.umbc.edu
On Mon, 29 Sep 2003, Charles & Mambo wrote:
david ford wrote:
Simpson, Dobzhansky, Stanley, Dawkins, Taylor,
Raup, Koestler, Gould
Look, moron, leave the atheist newsgroups out of your incessant spamming,
because atheism has nothing to do with your anti-darwinian phantasyland.
No one in the atheist newsgroups is interested in your ***** links and I
can guarantee you that this type of hit and run spamming will win you no
supporters for your quixotic quest.
--
Got to be a Chocolate Jesus, better than a cup of gold
See, only a Chocolate Jesus can satisfy my soul
When the weather gets rough and its whiskey in the shade
Best to wrap your Savior up in cellophane
He flows like the Big Muddy, but that's okay
Pour him over ice-cream for a nice parfait...
Got to be a Chocolate Jesus, make me feel so good inside
Got to be a Chocolate Jesus, keep me satisfied
.
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| User: "Hiero5ant" |
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| Title: Re: Quote Mine Project - Part II |
01 Oct 2003 05:55:57 AM |
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"david ford" <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.44L.01.0310010102250.26912-100000@linux3.gl.umbc.edu...
Correct me if I am wrong, Charles & Mambo, but you believe that
life came from non-life in the distant past, correct?
What is the basis for your belief that life came from non-life?
Perhaps partly your atheism?
<snip>
This criticism alternates between being the most exasperating and the
most amusing in the entire "debate": the only people who believe life
*didn't* come from non-life are people who believe that life has always
existed, and I've never met any of those people.
The structure of DF's criticism can be succicntly stated as follows:
1) It is impossible for life to come from nonlife.
2) Therefore, life came from nonlife.
This structure is incorporated into numerous other creationist
arguments, to wit, "It is impossible to violate the 2nd law of
thermodynamics, therefore the 2nd law of thermodynamics has been violated";
"It is impossible for new information to be created, therefore new
information has been created"; and "It is impossible for investigation of
origins to be undertaken scientifically, therefore creationism is a
science".
.
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| User: "AC" |
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| Title: Re: Quote Mine Project - Part II |
04 Oct 2003 04:43:00 PM |
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On Wed, 1 Oct 2003 05:02:08 +0000 (UTC),
david ford <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong, Charles & Mambo, but you believe that
life came from non-life in the distant past, correct?
What is the basis for your belief that life came from non-life?
Perhaps partly your atheism?
Even your holy book claims that. Are you saying its wrong as well?
How do evolutionary biologists "know" that life came from
non-life via non-intelligence-directed processes?:
<snip>
Because if it happened by magic, then science couldn't have anything to do
with it. It's that simple. If it happened via natural processes, then we
have at least some chance of understanding the process. If your particular
deity waved his magic finger, wand or big toe and made it happen, then throw
out the science.
I just cannot understand why this illudes Creationists. Perhaps it is
because they truly believe that science is some sort of religion itself,
that they simply are incapable of understanding its scope.
--
Aaron Clausen
taocow@alberni.net
.
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| User: "AC" |
|
| Title: Re: Quote Mine Project - Part II |
01 Oct 2003 12:30:06 AM |
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On Wed, 1 Oct 2003 05:02:08 +0000 (UTC),
david ford <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong, Charles & Mambo, but you believe that
life came from non-life in the distant past, correct?
What is the basis for your belief that life came from non-life?
Perhaps partly your atheism?
You are aware that there are plenty of people who believe in God who also
believe in a non-intelligent origin for life.
How do evolutionary biologists "know" that life came from
non-life via non-intelligence-directed processes?:
Haeckel; Goodrich; Wells, J. Huxley, & Wells;
Simpson; Sagan; Dawkins
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=Pine.SGI.3.96A.990812214926.974808E-100000%40umbc8.umbc.edu
They don't "know". It's just that if it was a supernatural event, then it
is beyond the ability of science to explain it. Are you suggesting
scientists invoke magic every time they can't explain something?
<snip>
--
Aaron Clausen
taocow@alberni.net
.
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| User: "Charles & Mambo" |
|
| Title: Re: Quote Mine Project - Part II |
01 Oct 2003 01:46:17 AM |
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david ford wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong, Charles & Mambo, but you believe that
life came from non-life in the distant past, correct?
What is the basis for your belief that life came from non-life?
Perhaps partly your atheism?
"My atheism" is not the basis for anything. It is the other way around - I
am an atheist because I rely strictly on reason, rationality and logic,
which is just the opposite of faith, superstition and religious brainwashing.
I hold no "beliefs" about life "coming" from anything, and instead rely on
science to provide the best possible answers, theories and explanations on
how something happened. Since one can observe fossils nicely layered in
different radiometrically dated strata, starting from simple multi-celled
organisms 4 billion years ago to complex mammals and reptiles much later,
and also knowing that amino-acids were successfully replicated in the lab
conditions simulating the early Earth, there is no possible reason not to
conclude that life developed from "non-life", if you wish.
Considering the preponderance of available evidence and considering the
absence of any other scientifically formulated hypothesis, it is only
reasonable to assume this flow of events.
Now, if you have any evidence to offer as far as deities or aliens
"creating" life, we'd all like to see it. Of course, if this will mean the
standard creationist crap, then spare us. We heard it all and were utterly
unimpressed.
--
Got to be a Chocolate Jesus, better than a cup of gold
See, only a Chocolate Jesus can satisfy my soul
When the weather gets rough and its whiskey in the shade
Best to wrap your Savior up in cellophane
He flows like the Big Muddy, but that's okay
Pour him over ice-cream for a nice parfait...
Got to be a Chocolate Jesus, make me feel so good inside
Got to be a Chocolate Jesus, keep me satisfied
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Quote Mine Project - Part II |
01 Oct 2003 02:46:07 AM |
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In article <3F7A7959.3000708@get.lost>, Charles & Mambo <Duckman@get.lost>
writes:
david ford wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong, Charles & Mambo, but you believe that
life came from non-life in the distant past, correct?
What is the basis for your belief that life came from non-life?
Perhaps partly your atheism?
"My atheism" is not the basis for anything. It is the other way around - I
am an atheist because I rely strictly on reason, rationality and logic,
which is just the opposite of faith, superstition and religious
brainwashing.
I hold no "beliefs" about life "coming" from anything, and instead rely on
science to provide the best possible answers, theories and explanations on
how something happened. Since one can observe fossils nicely layered in
different radiometrically dated strata, starting from simple multi-celled
organisms 4 billion years ago to complex mammals and reptiles much later,
and also knowing that amino-acids were successfully replicated in the lab
conditions simulating the early Earth, there is no possible reason not to
conclude that life developed from "non-life", if you wish.
Considering the preponderance of available evidence and considering the
absence of any other scientifically formulated hypothesis, it is only
reasonable to assume this flow of events.
Now, if you have any evidence to offer as far as deities or aliens
"creating" life, we'd all like to see it. Of course, if this will mean the
standard creationist crap, then spare us. We heard it all and were utterly
unimpressed.
--
Got to be a Chocolate Jesus, better than a cup of gold
See, only a Chocolate Jesus can satisfy my soul
When the weather gets rough and its whiskey in the shade
Best to wrap your Savior up in cellophane
He flows like the Big Muddy, but that's okay
Pour him over ice-cream for a nice parfait...
Got to be a Chocolate Jesus, make me feel so good inside
Got to be a Chocolate Jesus, keep me satisfied
Or as Tom Lehrer put it
plastic jesus plastic jesus
riding on the dashboard of my car
I don't care if it rains or freezes
So long as I have plastic jesus
riding on the dashboard of my car
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