Re: Re: Bush told me to stone that Stick Gatherer



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "Soul food"
Date: 08 Oct 2005 04:06:33 AM
Object: Re: Re: Bush told me to stone that Stick Gatherer
"Carl Rooker" <rookerc@dnx.net> shamelessly dissembled:


"Nate The River Dancer" <tinanate316@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1128637406.554934.261670@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

Numbers 15:32 "And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness,
they found a man gathering sticks upon the sabbath day... 35 God said
unto Moses, 'The man shall surely be put to death: all the congregation
shall stone him with stones without the camp'. 36 And all the
congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him to death with
stones as Jehovah commanded Moses."

This just in... Bush told god he should stone the guy for gathering
sticks on the sabbath - because only terrorists gather sticks on the
sabbath.


Nonsense. Like all arguments taken out of context, you miss the point of
the passage.

The man broke the Covenant he agreed to with God. In so doing he profaned
the Covenant, God, and the Hebrews. His crime was far greater than
gathering sticks.

This man had also agreed to the penalties of breaking the Covenant.

God Bless
Carl

So, there are circumstances where it's OK to kill people. Yes, that's
the whole poiint of religion isn't it. Thank you very much.
------------------------------------------------
"The real dichotomy in today's world is between reason and religion.
The future of civilisation rests upon how many people realise that and do something about it."
D Silverman FLAHN, SMLAHN
AA #2208
.

User: "Carl Rooker"

Title: Re: Re: Bush told me to stone that Stick Gatherer 08 Oct 2005 11:50:43 AM
"Soul food" <cthulhu@soulstogo.com> wrote in message
news:qu2fk11l9a0jdcil6onmju4chdietscdss@4ax.com...

"Carl Rooker" <rookerc@dnx.net> shamelessly dissembled:


"Nate The River Dancer" <tinanate316@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1128637406.554934.261670@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

Numbers 15:32 "And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness,
they found a man gathering sticks upon the sabbath day... 35 God said
unto Moses, 'The man shall surely be put to death: all the congregation
shall stone him with stones without the camp'. 36 And all the
congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him to death with
stones as Jehovah commanded Moses."

This just in... Bush told god he should stone the guy for gathering
sticks on the sabbath - because only terrorists gather sticks on the
sabbath.


Nonsense. Like all arguments taken out of context, you miss the point of
the passage.

The man broke the Covenant he agreed to with God. In so doing he

profaned

the Covenant, God, and the Hebrews. His crime was far greater than
gathering sticks.

This man had also agreed to the penalties of breaking the Covenant.

God Bless
Carl


So, there are circumstances where it's OK to kill people. Yes, that's
the whole poiint of religion isn't it. Thank you very much.

God has the right, as the Creator and author of life to give life, and take
it away. Not you or me, only Him.
There are certain circumstances where He does authorize the taking of life.
I make no apology about this. One of those is for the premeditated murder
of another individual. He has also given clear warning to make sure the
accused is actually the real guilty party before such an event.
Point is, that He made a contract with that man, and his nation, and that
man broke the contract full well knowing the consequences. Whether you
agree with God on this or not, it is a matter between that man and God, and
God has the right whether you give it to him or not.
He is trying to teach you (personally) something here, but you are missing
the point in your antagonism.
God Bless
Carl
.
User: "Rev. Karl E. Taylor"

Title: Re: Bush told me to stone that Stick Gatherer 08 Oct 2005 10:43:40 PM
Carl Rooker wrote:

"Soul food" <cthulhu@soulstogo.com> wrote in message
news:qu2fk11l9a0jdcil6onmju4chdietscdss@4ax.com...

"Carl Rooker" <rookerc@dnx.net> shamelessly dissembled:


"Nate The River Dancer" <tinanate316@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1128637406.554934.261670@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

Numbers 15:32 "And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness,
they found a man gathering sticks upon the sabbath day... 35 God said
unto Moses, 'The man shall surely be put to death: all the congregation
shall stone him with stones without the camp'. 36 And all the
congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him to death with
stones as Jehovah commanded Moses."

This just in... Bush told god he should stone the guy for gathering
sticks on the sabbath - because only terrorists gather sticks on the
sabbath.


Nonsense. Like all arguments taken out of context, you miss the point of
the passage.

The man broke the Covenant he agreed to with God. In so doing he


profaned

the Covenant, God, and the Hebrews. His crime was far greater than
gathering sticks.

This man had also agreed to the penalties of breaking the Covenant.

God Bless
Carl


So, there are circumstances where it's OK to kill people. Yes, that's
the whole poiint of religion isn't it. Thank you very much.



God has the right, as the Creator and author of life to give life, and take
it away. Not you or me, only Him.

There are certain circumstances where He does authorize the taking of life.
I make no apology about this. One of those is for the premeditated murder
of another individual. He has also given clear warning to make sure the
accused is actually the real guilty party before such an event.

Point is, that He made a contract with that man, and his nation, and that
man broke the contract full well knowing the consequences. Whether you
agree with God on this or not, it is a matter between that man and God, and
God has the right whether you give it to him or not.

He is trying to teach you (personally) something here, but you are missing
the point in your antagonism.

God Bless
Carl


Well, since there ain't no gods, there ain't no lesson.
And since the worlds religions are nothing more then myths and fairy
tales, used to justify mass murder, bigotry, hate, and maltreatment of
others, written by men, the point you miss is that religion is crap.
--
There are none more ignorant and useless,
than they that seek answers on their knees,
with their eyes closed.
____________________________________________________________________
Rev. Karl E. Taylor

A.A #1143 http://azhotops.blogspot.com/
Apostle of Dr. Lao EAC: Virgin Conversion Unit Director
____________________________________________________________________
.

User: "Soul food"

Title: Re: Re: Bush told me to stone that Stick Gatherer 08 Oct 2005 08:57:09 PM
Into alt.atheism shot "Carl Rooker" <rookerc@dnx.net> and breathlessly
exclaimed:

There are certain circumstances where He does authorize the taking of life.
I make no apology about this. One of those is for the premeditated murder
of another individual. He has also given clear warning to make sure the
accused is actually the real guilty party before such an event.

Point is, that He made a contract with that man, and his nation, and that
man broke the contract full well knowing the consequences. Whether you
agree with God on this or not, it is a matter between that man and God, and
God has the right whether you give it to him or not.

He is trying to teach you (personally) something here, but you are missing
the point in your antagonism.

He is not trying to teach me anything. He cannot teach me anything -
he doesn't exist, that is a fact. The only reason anybody says
otherwise is because they are afraid not to. That is abject moral
cowardice as well as dishonesty.
Oh! and by the way, thank you for admitting that theists believe that
God gives them a right, even a duty, to take another person's life,
and that the taking of such a life is justified (supposedly) according
to theological abstractions. Moral tirpitude doesn't get any more
abject than that.
Thank you also for neatly explaining the linkage between religion and
warfare even better than I could.
------------------------------------------------
"The real dichotomy in today's world is between reason and religion.
The future of civilisation rests upon how many people realise that and do something about it."
D Silverman FLAHN, SMLAHN
AA #2208
.
User: "Pastor Frank"

Title: Re: Re: Bush told me to stone that Stick Gatherer 10 Oct 2005 12:09:16 PM
"Soul food" <cthulhu@soulstogo.com> wrote in message
news:uetgk1pf239eaigu638h712fc6n0is2giu@4ax.com...

Into alt.atheism shot "Carl Rooker" <rookerc@dnx.net> and breathlessly
exclaimed:


There are certain circumstances where He does authorize the taking of
life.
I make no apology about this. One of those is for the premeditated murder
of another individual. He has also given clear warning to make sure the
accused is actually the real guilty party before such an event.
Point is, that He made a contract with that man, and his nation, and that
man broke the contract full well knowing the consequences. Whether you
agree with God on this or not, it is a matter between that man and God,
and
God has the right whether you give it to him or not.
He is trying to teach you (personally) something here, but you are missing
the point in your antagonism.


He is not trying to teach me anything. He cannot teach me anything -
he doesn't exist, that is a fact. The only reason anybody says
otherwise is because they are afraid not to. That is abject moral
cowardice as well as dishonesty.
Oh! and by the way, thank you for admitting that theists believe that
God gives them a right, even a duty, to take another person's life,
and that the taking of such a life is justified (supposedly) according
to theological abstractions. Moral tirpitude doesn't get any more
abject than that.
Thank you also for neatly explaining the linkage between religion and
warfare even better than I could.
D Silverman FLAHN, SMLAHN AA #2208

There is no "linkage" nor permission to kill anyone in the Christian
belief system, for we are to love our enemies and do good to those who would
abuse us etc. The permission, if not commandment to kill only occurs in the
Tanakh of Judaism. See footnotes
Pastor Frank
THE COMMANDMENTS YHWH GAVE MOSES ON MT. SINAI.
"For the law was given by Moses..." (John 1:17) and:
"...according to the law of Moses..." (Luke 2:22
Leviticus 20:9-27 If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to
death. He has cursed his father or his mother, and his blood will be on his
own head.
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife-with the wife
of his neighbor-both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.
If a man sleeps with his father's wife, he has dishonored his
father. Both the man and the woman must be put to death; their blood
will be on their own heads.
If a man sleeps with his daughter-in-law, both of them must be
put to death. What they have done is a perversion; their blood will be
on their own heads.
If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them
have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood
will be on their own heads.
If a man marries both a woman and her mother, it is wicked. Both
he and they must be burned in the fire, so that no wickedness will be
among you.
If a man has sexual relations with an animal, he must be put to
death, and you must kill the animal.
If a woman approaches an animal to have sexual relations with it,
kill both the woman and the animal. They must be put to death; their
blood will be on their own heads.
If a man marries his sister, the daughter of either his father or
his mother, and they have sexual relations, it is a disgrace. They must be
cut off before the eyes of their people. He has dishonored his sister and
will be held responsible.
If a man lies with a woman during her monthly period and has
sexual relations with her, he has exposed the source of her flow, and
she has also uncovered it. Both of them must be cut off from their people.
Do not have sexual relations with the sister of either your
mother or your father, for that would dishonor a close relative; both of
you would be held responsible.
If a man sleeps with his aunt, he has dishonored his uncle. They
will be held responsible; they will die childless.
If a man marries his brother's wife, it is an act of impurity; he
has dishonored his brother. They will be childless.
A man or woman who is a medium or spiritist among you must be
put to death. You are to stone them; their blood will be on their own
heads.
Ex:35:2: Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall
be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work
therein shall be put to death.
Lev 21: 9 If a priest's daughter defiles herself by becoming a
prostitute, she disgraces her father; she must be burned in the fire.
Deuteronomy 25:11-12 "When men strive together one with another, and
the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand
of him that smiteth him and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the
secrets: Then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her"
.
User: "Aaron"

Title: Re: Bush told me to stone that Stick Gatherer 11 Oct 2005 11:58:11 PM
On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 13:09:16 -0400, "Pastor Frank"
<PastorFrank@christfirst.edu> wrote:

"Soul food" <cthulhu@soulstogo.com> wrote in message
news:uetgk1pf239eaigu638h712fc6n0is2giu@4ax.com...

Into alt.atheism shot "Carl Rooker" <rookerc@dnx.net> and breathlessly
exclaimed:


There are certain circumstances where He does authorize the taking of
life.
I make no apology about this. One of those is for the premeditated murder
of another individual. He has also given clear warning to make sure the
accused is actually the real guilty party before such an event.
Point is, that He made a contract with that man, and his nation, and that
man broke the contract full well knowing the consequences. Whether you
agree with God on this or not, it is a matter between that man and God,
and
God has the right whether you give it to him or not.
He is trying to teach you (personally) something here, but you are missing
the point in your antagonism.


He is not trying to teach me anything. He cannot teach me anything -
he doesn't exist, that is a fact. The only reason anybody says
otherwise is because they are afraid not to. That is abject moral
cowardice as well as dishonesty.
Oh! and by the way, thank you for admitting that theists believe that
God gives them a right, even a duty, to take another person's life,
and that the taking of such a life is justified (supposedly) according
to theological abstractions. Moral tirpitude doesn't get any more
abject than that.
Thank you also for neatly explaining the linkage between religion and
warfare even better than I could.
D Silverman FLAHN, SMLAHN AA #2208

There is no "linkage" nor permission to kill anyone in the Christian
belief system, for we are to love our enemies and do good to those who would
abuse us etc.
The permission, if not commandment to kill only occurs in the
Tanakh of Judaism. See footnotes

Frank Jesus COMMANDED all His followers to obey all the Commandments
of the OT (the Tanakh), in Matthew 5:17-19. So, the NT commands the
execution of certain vile sinners such as Sabbath breakers, you know
like those who go to "church" on Sunday. Sorry, Frank, but this
hyper-pacifism of yours is not supported by Jesus, who instructed his
followers to buy and carry swords, who physically attacked gentiles
for entering the Temple.


Pastor Frank

THE COMMANDMENTS YHWH GAVE MOSES ON MT. SINAI.

Yes, Jesus/YHVH gave these Commandments, but he gave them to Moses
weeks AFTER Moses went DOWN FROM THE MOUNTAIN. Sepecifically, it was
after the construction of the Tabernacle and the consecration of the
Priests.

"For the law was given by Moses..." (John 1:17) and:

Frank, I do not know what translation you are using or if you
intentionally changed that verse, but the Greek uses the word "dia,"
which means "through" NOT "by." So the Greek agrees with the OT, that
God gave the Commandments THROUGH Moses.
Also, I notice that you left off most of the verse because it
disagrees with you. It reads: "Because the Law through Moses was
given, gracious love and truth through Yshu`a came into being."
(using Jesus' real name in translation)
Note that "gracious love and truth" came into being because of God
giving the Law through Moses not to counteract God's actions. In
effect jesus began working as PART of the Law, a concept introduced in
the very begining of this Gospel (John 1:1-5).

"...according to the law of Moses..." (Luke 2:22

Yes, the instruction concerning the purification of a woman after
giving birth is given in the Books of Moses. Frank this is a
scripture reference, not a claim of origin. The First Five books of
the Bible were not always called "Breshit," Shmot," Vayikra,"
"Bmidbar," and "Dvarim." And the "engish" terms for them were
invented much later. Like many other books of the Bible, they were
named after the prophet whom God (YHVH/Jesus) worked through to given
them to the Jews.

Leviticus 20:9-27 If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to
death. He has cursed his father or his mother, and his blood will be on his
own head.
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife-with the wife
of his neighbor-both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.
If a man sleeps with his father's wife, he has dishonored his
father. Both the man and the woman must be put to death; their blood
will be on their own heads.
If a man sleeps with his daughter-in-law, both of them must be
put to death. What they have done is a perversion; their blood will be
on their own heads.
If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them
have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood
will be on their own heads.
If a man marries both a woman and her mother, it is wicked. Both
he and they must be burned in the fire, so that no wickedness will be
among you.
If a man has sexual relations with an animal, he must be put to
death, and you must kill the animal.
If a woman approaches an animal to have sexual relations with it,
kill both the woman and the animal. They must be put to death; their
blood will be on their own heads.
If a man marries his sister, the daughter of either his father or
his mother, and they have sexual relations, it is a disgrace. They must be
cut off before the eyes of their people. He has dishonored his sister and
will be held responsible.
If a man lies with a woman during her monthly period and has
sexual relations with her, he has exposed the source of her flow, and
she has also uncovered it. Both of them must be cut off from their people.
Do not have sexual relations with the sister of either your
mother or your father, for that would dishonor a close relative; both of
you would be held responsible.
If a man sleeps with his aunt, he has dishonored his uncle. They
will be held responsible; they will die childless.
If a man marries his brother's wife, it is an act of impurity; he
has dishonored his brother. They will be childless.
A man or woman who is a medium or spiritist among you must be
put to death. You are to stone them; their blood will be on their own
heads.
Ex:35:2: Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall
be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work
therein shall be put to death.
Lev 21: 9 If a priest's daughter defiles herself by becoming a
prostitute, she disgraces her father; she must be burned in the fire.
Deuteronomy 25:11-12 "When men strive together one with another, and
the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand
of him that smiteth him and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the
secrets: Then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her"

Yes, Jesus commanded the Death Penalty for many crimes against God.
Of course the rules of evidence were also very strict, and so there
were very few executions. In John, Chapter Eight, Jesus condemns
certain Pharisees for attempting to trick Him into violating the Laws
of Evidence.
Frank, you have proven with your quote that Jesus is NO pacifist!
.





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