| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
26 Mar 2007 05:05:01 AM |
| Object: |
Re: School Bible debate continues |
"Chris Morris" <Draccus@adelphia.net> wrote:
:|The largest provider of private school education is the Catholic Church and
:|they have managed to keep education and indoctrination separate rather
:|nicely.
:|
Would you mind explaining that one and perhaps offerign some evidenece that
supports your comment above?
***************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS · Historical Reality SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
USAF LT. COL (Ret) Buffman (Glen P. Goffin) wrote
"You pilot always into an unknown future;
facts are your only clue. Get the facts!"
That philosophy 'snipit' helped to get me, and my crew, through a good
many combat missions and far too many scary, inflight, emergencies.
It has also played a significant role in helping me to expose the
plethora of radical Christian propaganda and lies that we find at
almost every media turn.
*****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
.
|
|
| User: "Chris Morris" |
|
| Title: Re: School Bible debate continues |
26 Mar 2007 02:29:16 PM |
|
|
<buckeye-elo@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:gk6f03peh3442va0d1of4d170jj8etcodt@4ax.com...
"Chris Morris" <Draccus@adelphia.net> wrote:
:|The largest provider of private school education is the Catholic Church
and
:|they have managed to keep education and indoctrination separate rather
:|nicely.
:|
Would you mind explaining that one and perhaps offerign some evidenece
that
supports your comment above?
The Catholic Church has always been the largest provider of Private
Education in this Country for better pf worse since the advent of Public
Schools. As to the meaning of the rest I am referring to the Religious
portion of the Catholic Education verses the Secular Portion. The Church
manages to keep the two separate for instance they do not attempt to put
religion into the Science Courses they leave that for the catechism and
religious classes which are for the most part optional.
***************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS · Historical Reality SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
***************************************************************
. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why
"a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v.
Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
. . .
****************************************************************
USAF LT. COL (Ret) Buffman (Glen P. Goffin) wrote
"You pilot always into an unknown future;
facts are your only clue. Get the facts!"
That philosophy 'snipit' helped to get me, and my crew, through a good
many combat missions and far too many scary, inflight, emergencies.
It has also played a significant role in helping me to expose the
plethora of radical Christian propaganda and lies that we find at
almost every media turn.
*****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: School Bible debate continues |
29 Mar 2007 09:24:15 AM |
|
|
"Chris Morris" <Draccus@adelphia.net> wrote:
:|
:|<buckeye-elo@nospam.net> wrote in message
:|news:gk6f03peh3442va0d1of4d170jj8etcodt@4ax.com...
:|> "Chris Morris" <Draccus@adelphia.net> wrote:
:|>
:|>>:|The largest provider of private school education is the Catholic Church
:|>>and
:|>>:|they have managed to keep education and indoctrination separate rather
:|>>:|nicely.
:|>>:|
:|>
:|> Would you mind explaining that one and perhaps offerign some evidenece
:|> that
:|> supports your comment above?
:|>
:|
:|The Catholic Church has always been the largest provider of Private
:|Education in this Country for better pf worse since the advent of Public
:|Schools. As to the meaning of the rest I am referring to the Religious
:|portion of the Catholic Education verses the Secular Portion. The Church
:|manages to keep the two separate for instance they do not attempt to put
:|religion into the Science Courses they leave that for the catechism and
:|religious classes which are for the most part optional.
:|
Actually they don't which was why I asked you if you had any evidence that
would support your comments;
I willl offer the following:
From:
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 16:13:06 GMT
Local: Thurs, Apr 17 2003 12:13 pm
Subject: Re: Colorado Vouchers
The topic being discussed was your error with regards of the religious
makeup of private religious schools of the k-12 variety
***************************************************
Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
Catholic schools, like most religious schools, are "pervasively
religious". The religious activities are constant.
linder....@osu.edu (Jeffrey Scott Linder) wrote:
Have you ever attended a Catholic School? I did and it was not
"pervasively religious" but then I'm a small sample.
Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=344dfb5c.3663446%40news.infi.net
is where jalison dealt with this by showing that the Wisconsin court
held an agreed upon statement of facts (i.e. the pro-voucher side
admitted it) that religion is pervasively included in the curriculum
of the religious schools, which included several Catholic ones.
The Participating Schools. There are 122 private schools in the city of
Milwaukee that would have been eligible to participate in the Amended
Choice Program during the 1995-96 school year. See Agreed Upon Statement of
Facts, 24. Of those, 89 are sectarian and 33 are nonsectarian. Id., 25.
Approximately 84 percent of the pupils who attended private schools
during the 1994-95 school year attended religious schools. Id., 26.
The parties have provided the Court, as part of the Agreed Upon Statement
of Facts, the mission statements and other written materials prepared by
many of the religious schools that notified the Superintendent of Public
Instruction of their intent to participate in the Amended Choice Program
during the 1995-96 school year. Id., 27, Exhibit E. Those materials make
clear that religion is a pervasive part of each student's educational
experience at these schools. The participating schools announce
forthrightly that their mission is religious and that religious doctrine
will be instilled in their students:
* "Oklahoma Avenue Lutheran School is an integral part of the ministry of
Oklahoma Avenue Lutheran Church." Exhibit E to Agreed Upon Statement of
Facts, p. 535.
* "The mission of St. Leo and St. Rose Catholic schools is to share in the
parish evangelization effort through providing quality Catholic education
in grades pre-kindergarten through eight." Id. at 720.
* "The continuing purpose of St. Matthew Ev. Lutheran Church and School is
to go and tell the pure Gospel of Jesus Christ for the conversion of
unbelievers and the strengthening of believers in faith and Christian
living." Id. at 750.
* "St. Paul's Lutheran School exists to: -assist Parents in training
children in God's ways, teach God's Word to children, and -make disciples
of children." Id. at 790.
* "We believe our school exists to carry out the Savior's command to 'go
and make disciples" (Matthew 28:19). Consequently, our school's primary
reason for existence is to be a tool for bringing young souls to faith in
Jesus...." Id. at 275 (Fairview Lutheran School).
* "A prospective student whose parents are not members of a church will be
considered as mission prospects. Christ Lutheran Church/School considers it
a responsibility to teach the Word of God to those who have not heard this
blessed Word." Id. at 198.
* "The objectives of the [Clara Muhammad School] are: 1. To foster within
each student the principle of submissions to the will of Allah (God) as the
essential element in achieving human excellence." Id. at 227.
* "Holy Redeemer Christian Academy is an integral part of the ministry of
Holy Redeemer Church of God in Christ." Id. at 399.
* "As a Catholic high school, [Divine Savior Holy Angels High School] is
dedicated to promoting the beliefs and traditions of the Catholic Church."
Id. at 234.
* "The Yeshiva Elementary School of Milwaukee was initiated by members of
the Orthodox Jewish Community with the following objectives as their goals:
To teach elementary school children Torah and Mitzvos in accordance with
the ideals and aspirations of Torah as espoused by the G'Dolei Yisroel in
order to provide the excellence in Orthodox Jewish Education which will
prepare our children to attend the finest seminaries, Yeshivas and
institutions of Jewish higher learning. " Id. at 966.
* "The function of St. Bemadette Day School is to provide for Christian
individuals opportunities for growth in faith, for formation, for
development." Id. at 614.
* "First and foremost Garden Homes Lutheran Church conducts and maintains a
Christian elementary school to assist Christian parents in the training and
nurturing of their children in the Word of God." Id. at 316.
As the schools' literature emphasizes, one of the primary means by which
these schools accomplish their religious missions is by integrating the
religious and secular aspects of the schools' educational programs.
* "In keeping with the purpose of our school, our curriculum is taught in
the setting of God's Word. Religion is not only taught as a subject, but
our teachers have been trained to integrate God's Word across the
curriculum. ... Our curriculum offerings place Christ as the focal point
for all study," Id. at 414, 417 (The Lutheran Chapel of The Cross Church
and
School) .
* "Each class is taught by a dedicated Christian teacher who believes in
Biblical concepts of salvation. Teachers strive to build into the
curriculum a philosophy of Christian living that includes moral and
spiritual values." Id. at 471 (Milwaukee Junior Academy (Seventh-day
Adventist)).
* "Emmaus Lutheran Church and School is a Christian institution, NOT a
private school. The Holy Gospel is the center of our curriculum." Id. at
259." "[Elverything that confronts the child in the educational program
offered by St. Matthew Ev. Lutheran School will be presented in the light
of His inspired, inerrant word of truth and power." Id. at 750.
* "The children will be thoroughly trained in the fundamental subject areas
needed for a successful life here on this earth. It is our aim that these
subjects be taught in accordance to Scripture and that all things related
to the children's educational life be permeated with God's
Word." Id. at 792 (St. Paul's Lutheran School).
* "Christian teachings are fostered in all classes, but especially in the
religion program." Id. at 106 (All Saints Catholic Elementary School).
* At St. Veronica Catholic Elementary School, "Christian-Centered
Education" means "Integrating Catholic faith in all academic areas." Id. at
841.
* "The students of St. Alexander's are not only taught the basic truths of
their religion; they are also exposed to the Christian attitudes and
ideologies which pervade their school environment." Id. at 553.
* "The message of Jesus is taught in religion classes and other curricular
areas. ... Because of the nature of a Catholic school, religion is taught
daily as part of the curriculum. Catholic values are also incorporated into
all other aspects of the curriculum." Id. at 614, 617 ( St.Bernadette
School).
* "The Bible forms the core and center upon which all instruction is based.
Each day is opened with a devotion followed by instruction in Christian
doctrine and Bible study. Our school gives due instruction in all branches
of academics, which are required by the State of Wisconsin. All subjects
are taught by a Christian teacher in the light of God's Word,
emphasizing God's love for all men through Jesus." Id. at 131 (Bethlehem
Lutheran School).
* "All subject areas in our school are Christ-centered," Id. at 323 (Gospel
Lutheran School).
* "We Believe...that the Christian School, where every subject is taught
from the Christian point of view, related to the teachings of Christianity
and permeated with the spirit of Christianity, can be more successful in
leading children to a vital Christian life than any other agency, except
the Christian home." Id. at 534 (Oklahoma Avenue Lutheran School).
* "We teach all the traditional subjects, but we teach them
differently--from a Christian perspective." Id. at 526 (Mount Olive
Lutheran School).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The point being the teaching of their religious views is combined with and
woven into all they do and teach.
***************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS · Historical Reality SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
USAF LT. COL (Ret) Buffman (Glen P. Goffin) wrote
"You pilot always into an unknown future;
facts are your only clue. Get the facts!"
That philosophy 'snipit' helped to get me, and my crew, through a good
many combat missions and far too many scary, inflight, emergencies.
It has also played a significant role in helping me to expose the
plethora of radical Christian propaganda and lies that we find at
almost every media turn.
*****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
.
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