| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Scott Erb" |
| Date: |
03 May 2005 12:17:02 PM |
| Object: |
Re: #Science still losing battle for America's minds |
By the way, if anyone is interested, on my blog
(http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm) I have a series I've started on
spirit and belief, where I try to define the limits of science and religion.
Creationists and doubters of modern physics won't like it:
http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/spirit.htm
Just peaking in the newsgroups to see who's still around. I've been far too
busy to post, but maybe after I get back from taking students to Italy later
this month I'll join in the discussion. Since the Iraq war has proven a
failure (I recall all that talk about re-making the mideast, getting oil
prices down, pressuring Syria and Iraq, etc.), it'll be interesting to see
if the hawks have admitted error, or if they are still trying to claim that
everything's cool :-)
ciao, scott
"1579 Dead" <zepp1579#2211finestplanet.com> wrote in message
news:jor971dokfoo99elc2caqklhn0cvcn2bd9@4ax.com...
<http://www.rawstory.com/exclusives/steinberg/science_strategy_042805.htm>
Science still losing the battle for America's hearts
By John Steinberg | RAW STORY COLUMNIST
As regular readers (of this website, to be sure, but also regular
readers in the broadest sense) know, science is under attack - in
specific ways like the Administration's dismissal of evidence of
global warming, and in a more general sense, as evidenced by the way
the current administration stacks advisory panels based on religious
belief rather than domain expertise. But if there is a mutual Maginot
Line in this battle, it is the conflict between literal interpretation
of the Bible's account of creation in Genesis and Satan's embodiment
in the form of evolution.
Advertisement
For those who subscribe to the Darwinian view (and each of us should
smack upside the head all who say they "believe in evolution," a
construction that cedes the high ground at the outset - "belief" has
nothing to do with it), the news from the front is not good. Time and
Newsweek seem to feature so many religious stories that they might as
well have become in-flight magazines for Jesus Air. With rare
exceptions, such as the recent scathing editorial in Scientific
American, discussions of the religion-science collision are notable
primarily for their unwillingness to offend true believers. Network
television shows present End Times dramas without a shred of irony -
the tag line for ads for NBC's "Revelations" series is "Omnium Finis
Imminet." And school boards around the country are backing slowly way
from the idea that public education should include anything not
pre-approved by Jerry Falwell.
In short, science is losing the battle for the hearts and minds of
Americans. A re-evaluation of strategy is therefore in order.
In the traditional long-term view of American politics, periods of
conservatism are balanced by periods of liberalization. By this view,
the pendulum that now gives us George Bush and James Dobson ascendant
will eventually swing back and undo their excesses.
But one of the most important points argued in Thomas Frank's What's
the Matter with Kansas? is that the pendulum may well be broken. The
map of class struggle has been redrawn: cooption of social
conservatism by the economic elite has aligned cynical wealth with
religious poverty. Progressive politics is no longer seen as an ally
of its logical beneficiaries. As a result, the restorative forces that
once limited the extent to which the country has swung from centrist
moorings may no longer apply.
So how do we fight back? Logic remains my weapon of choice, though our
opponents seem largely immune to its effects. But I harbor the hope
that we can still turn the tide with the essentials from the logical
toolkit, such as the reductio ad absurdum: showing that an idea is
probably false by first assuming its truth, and then showing how that
truth leads to absurd conclusions that cannot possibly be true. It is
the formal equivalent of "give them enough rope and they'll
(logically) hang themselves."
I thought I had found the perfect application when I read a recent
OpEd piece about the debate over evolution by Richard Cohen of the
Washington Post. Cohen tees up by noting that, "19 states are
considering proposals that would require schools to question
evolution."
I happen to be a big fan of skepticism. I think it is the most
important skill our schools can teach - not the distrust part,
exactly, but I do think that the ability to disassemble fallacious
arguments and pick out their specific flaws is what separates man from
sheep. (Well, that and Antonin Scalia. But I digress.)
Cohen wonders why the fundamentalist microscope is reserved for
Darwinism. As part of his reductio argument, he asks: "Why not
introduce such skepticism into astronomy and have the sun revolve
around the Earth, or have the Earth stand still?"
I read these words and smiled - exactly, I thought. Unwashed heathen
that I am, I was willing to bet that the Bible, written long before
Copernicus showed otherwise, says that the sun revolves around the
earth. And a quick online search confirmed I would have won the bet.
The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place
where he arose. Ecclesiastes 1, verse 5.
And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had
avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book
of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted
not to go down about a whole day. Joshua 10:13:
What we need, I mused while stroking my Snidely Whiplash moustache, is
a subversive Yes Men-style program to lead a noisy challenge to
heliocentrism. I saw visions of earnest young men, dressed to look
like Mormon missionaries, spreading through Red State America,
preaching the gospel of geocentrism. Let's help the wingnuts
re-establish God's own cosmology and insist that our schools teach
that the Earth is at the center of the universe. Give the kids two
competing theories and let them decide.
Confronted with such abject silliness, the rubes will have to finally
get the point - the point being that there must be some widely
abandoned pre-modern "fact" in the Bible that is so idea so plainly at
odds even with dumbed-down, man-in-the-street cosmology that the
resulting collision of faith and common sense will wake the neighbors.
Brilliant, if I do say so myself.
And then I woke up.
It turns out there is no need to create this stalking horse - there
are Bible-thumpers out there who actually still believe that the earth
is the center of the universe. Don't take my word for it. Visit
www.geocentricity.com, which is "devoted to the historical
relationship between the Bible and astronomy," and which "assumes that
whenever the two are at variance, it is always astronomy.that is
wrong."
By way of proof, these (literal) flat-earthers cite authorities like
Cardinal Bellarmine, (famous for threatening Galileo with the
Inquisition), who rejected Galileo's heresy thusly: "To assert that
the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that
Jesus Christ was not born of a virgin."
I guess that settles that.
These anti-science crusaders feel no need to explain the mountain of
contrary evidence stretching from Galileo, the 17th century heretic,
to Galileo, the spacecraft that orbited Jupiter in 2003. It should
therefore come as no surprise that their brethren are untroubled by
the geological evidence for natural selection, or by the conundrum
posed by the existence of vestigial organs in their own bodies - the
appendix, the tonsils, the cerebral cortex. They're not quite sure
what any of them are for, they know each of them can make them sick,
and they conclude they would be better off without any of them. For
fundamentalists, the Bible is a closed system, furnishing all relevant
theories, evidence and conclusions.
So perhaps there simply isn't a rope long enough out there for these
folks to hang themselves with. The reductio ad absurdum might as well
be spoken in tongues to people whose relationship with absurdity is
essentially a common law marriage.
--
Election 2004
The Triumph of the Swill
"The National Government will regard it as its first and foremost
duty to revive in the nation the spirit of unity and cooperation.
It will preserve and defend those basic principles on which our
nation has been built. It regards Christianity as the foundation
of our national morality, and the family as the basis of national
life."
Adolph Hitler, My New World Order,
Proclamation to the German Nation
at Berlin, February 1, 1933
Not dead, in jail, or a slave? Thank a liberal!
Pay your taxes so the rich don't have to.
http://www.zeppscommentaries.com
For news feed, http://yahoogroups/subscribe/zepps_news
For essays (please contribute!)
http:yahoogroups/subscribe/zepps_essays
-
Carl M. Forti, a spokesman for the National Republican
Congressional Committee -- "A month from now,
people are not going to remember [Terri Schiavo],"
he said, and 20 months from now, in the 2006
elections, "it will be irrelevant."
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/26/politics/26delay.html?
Not dead, in jail, or a slave? Thank a liberal!
Pay your taxes so the rich don't have to.
For the finest in liberal/leftist commentary,
http://www.zeppscommentaries.com
For news feed (free, 10-20 articles a day)
http://groups.yahoo.com/subscribe/zepps_news
For essays (donations accepted, 2 articles/week)
http://groups.yahoo.com/subscribe/zepps_essays
.
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| User: "Ghod" |
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| Title: Re: #Science still losing battle for America's minds |
03 May 2005 01:28:17 PM |
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"Scott Erb" <scotterb@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:imOde.175877$cg1.81994@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
: By the way, if anyone is interested, on my blog
Nope, not interested.
: Just peaking in the newsgroups to see who's still around.
Acid in digestion is fun! But I normally find something a bit more
interesting to do.
.
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| User: "Martin McPhillips" |
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| Title: Re: #Science still losing battle for America's minds |
03 May 2005 01:59:33 PM |
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"Scott Erb" <scotterb@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:imOde.175877$cg1.81994@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
By the way, if anyone is interested, on my blog
(http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm) I have a
series I've started on
spirit and belief, where I try to define the limits of
science and religion.
Creationists and doubters of modern physics won't like it:
http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/spirit.htm
Since the Iraq war has proven a
failure
Isn't it odd how ending a pedigreed fascist
regime, equal parts murderous, militaristic,
and defiant of international sanctions, and
replacing it with a consensual democratic
government is viewed as a failure by Leftist
university professors?
Just too stupid and shallow for words.
.
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| User: "Woden" |
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| Title: Re: #Science still losing battle for America's minds |
03 May 2005 02:15:54 PM |
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"Martin McPhillips" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in news:pSPde.17052
$mp6.3097790@twister.nyc.rr.com:
"Scott Erb" <scotterb@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:imOde.175877$cg1.81994@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
By the way, if anyone is interested, on my blog
(http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm) I have a
series I've started on
spirit and belief, where I try to define the limits of
science and religion.
Creationists and doubters of modern physics won't like it:
http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/spirit.htm
Since the Iraq war has proven a
failure
Isn't it odd how ending a pedigreed fascist
regime, equal parts murderous, militaristic,
and defiant of international sanctions, and
replacing it with a consensual democratic
government is viewed as a failure by Leftist
university professors?
Just too stupid and shallow for words.
And we only had to kill about 100,000 Iraqis to set up this puppet gov't.
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political system for controlling people's thoughts,
lives and actions based on ancient myths and superstitions, perpetrated
through generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
.
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| User: "Jenny6833A" |
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| Title: Re: #Science still losing battle for America's minds |
03 May 2005 02:30:45 PM |
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Martin McPhillips wrote:
Isn't it odd how ending a pedigreed fascist
regime, equal parts murderous, militaristic,
and defiant of international sanctions, and
replacing it with a consensual democratic
government is viewed as a failure by Leftist
university professors?
We replace governments we don't like and don't need, regardless of
their characteristics, and support those we do like or do need,
regardless of their characteristics.
And all the while we thumb our noses at the what the vast majority of
the rest of the world thinks we ought to do.
Aren't we also murderous, militaristic, and defiant of international
opinion?
But, of course, we are under God, so we know what's best for everyone
else.
:-)
Jenny
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| User: "Martin McPhillips" |
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| Title: Re: #Science still losing battle for America's minds |
03 May 2005 04:14:37 PM |
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"Jenny6833A" <Jenny6833A@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1115148645.443099.106310@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Martin McPhillips wrote:
Isn't it odd how ending a pedigreed fascist
regime, equal parts murderous, militaristic,
and defiant of international sanctions, and
replacing it with a consensual democratic
government is viewed as a failure by Leftist
university professors?
We replace governments we don't like and don't need,
regardless of
their characteristics, and support those we do like or do
need,
regardless of their characteristics.
Really? Then why haven't we replaced the government
of France? Don't be absurd.
The case of Iraq was the most thoroughly adjudicated
case against a rogue state since the inception of
the UN. The only problem with resolution 1441, the
17th resolution, is that so few people, including
the Secretary-General of the UN, appear to have
read it.
Go read it.
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| User: "Jeffrey Turner" |
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| Title: Re: #Science still losing battle for America's minds |
04 May 2005 08:09:11 AM |
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Martin McPhillips wrote:
"Jenny6833A" <Jenny6833A@aol.com> wrote:
Martin McPhillips wrote:
Isn't it odd how ending a pedigreed fascist
regime, equal parts murderous, militaristic,
and defiant of international sanctions, and
replacing it with a consensual democratic
government is viewed as a failure by Leftist
university professors?
We replace governments we don't like and don't need,
regardless of
their characteristics, and support those we do like or do
need,
regardless of their characteristics.
Really? Then why haven't we replaced the government
of France? Don't be absurd.
The case of Iraq was the most thoroughly adjudicated
case against a rogue state since the inception of
the UN. The only problem with resolution 1441, the
17th resolution, is that so few people, including
the Secretary-General of the UN, appear to have
read it.
1441 didn't authorize invasion, shyster.
--Jeff
--
As the Government of the United
States of America is not, in any
sense, founded on the Christian
religion...
--Treaty with Tripoli, 1797
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| User: "Martin McPhillips" |
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| Title: Re: #Science still losing battle for America's minds |
04 May 2005 09:11:24 AM |
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"Jeffrey Turner" <jturner@localnet.com> wrote in message
news:117hibn1jq3mqe2@corp.supernews.com...
Martin McPhillips wrote:
"Jenny6833A" <Jenny6833A@aol.com> wrote:
Martin McPhillips wrote:
Isn't it odd how ending a pedigreed fascist
regime, equal parts murderous, militaristic,
and defiant of international sanctions, and
replacing it with a consensual democratic
government is viewed as a failure by Leftist
university professors?
We replace governments we don't like and don't need,
regardless of
their characteristics, and support those we do like or do
need,
regardless of their characteristics.
Really? Then why haven't we replaced the government
of France? Don't be absurd.
The case of Iraq was the most thoroughly adjudicated
case against a rogue state since the inception of
the UN. The only problem with resolution 1441, the
17th resolution, is that so few people, including
the Secretary-General of the UN, appear to have
read it.
1441 didn't authorize invasion, shyster.
Of course it did. It explicitly restated, in
its opening paragraphs, the authority to use
force set forth in resolution 678 to enforce
all Iraq-relevant resolutions. Go read it.
But we've been through this before, in
exhaustive detail, where I cited line
after line and explained it to you.
But none of it could fit into your
fat head.
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: #Science still losing battle for America's minds |
04 May 2005 09:29:58 AM |
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On Wed, 04 May 2005 14:11:24 GMT, "Martin McPhillips"
<nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
1441 didn't authorize invasion, shyster.
Of course it did. It explicitly restated, in
its opening paragraphs, the authority to use
force set forth in resolution 678 to enforce
all Iraq-relevant resolutions. Go read it.
But we've been through this before, in
exhaustive detail, where I cited line
after line and explained it to you.
No, it didn't. The US used weasel language in the resolutions before
GW1, which they and they alone interpreted as a go-ahead for war. The
UN considers war the last resort, and for defensive purposes. The GW1
resolution allowed "all means necessary" - but within the UN charter,
which only permitted war if explicitly authorised.
Because the US had conned the other security council members that
time, and was using the same weasel language this time, they weren't
going to let them get away with it again.
But none of it could fit into your
fat head.
But none of it could fit into your
fat head.
.
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| User: "Martin McPhillips" |
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| Title: Re: #Science still losing battle for America's minds |
04 May 2005 09:36:23 AM |
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"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:mrmh7110tatgsqegjmmcchne7rbi6jphpl@4ax.com...
On Wed, 04 May 2005 14:11:24 GMT, "Martin McPhillips"
<nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
1441 didn't authorize invasion, shyster.
Of course it did. It explicitly restated, in
its opening paragraphs, the authority to use
force set forth in resolution 678 to enforce
all Iraq-relevant resolutions. Go read it.
But we've been through this before, in
exhaustive detail, where I cited line
after line and explained it to you.
No, it didn't. The US used weasel language in the
resolutions before
GW1, which they and they alone interpreted as a go-ahead
for war. The
UN considers war the last resort, and for defensive
purposes. The GW1
resolution allowed "all means necessary" - but within the
UN charter,
which only permitted war if explicitly authorised.
But of course you don't have a clue about
what you're saying.
1441 explicitly restates resolution 678, which
authorized the use of force to enforce "all
subsequent relevant resolutions" with respect
to Iraq.
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: #Science still losing battle for America's minds |
04 May 2005 09:45:17 AM |
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On Wed, 04 May 2005 14:36:23 GMT, "Martin McPhillips"
<nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:mrmh7110tatgsqegjmmcchne7rbi6jphpl@4ax.com...
On Wed, 04 May 2005 14:11:24 GMT, "Martin McPhillips"
<nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
1441 didn't authorize invasion, shyster.
Of course it did. It explicitly restated, in
its opening paragraphs, the authority to use
force set forth in resolution 678 to enforce
all Iraq-relevant resolutions. Go read it.
But we've been through this before, in
exhaustive detail, where I cited line
after line and explained it to you.
No, it didn't. The US used weasel language in the
resolutions before
GW1, which they and they alone interpreted as a go-ahead
for war. The
UN considers war the last resort, and for defensive
purposes. The GW1
resolution allowed "all means necessary" - but within the
UN charter,
which only permitted war if explicitly authorised.
But of course you don't have a clue about
what you're saying.
More of a clue than you do apparently.
1441 explicitly restates resolution 678, which
authorized the use of force to enforce "all
subsequent relevant resolutions" with respect
to Iraq.
Why did the security council members who had been scammed by US weasel
language first time around talk about "no automaticity" the second
time around, causing the US to go it alone?
.
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| User: "Eagle Eye" |
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| Title: Re: #Science still losing battle for America's minds |
03 May 2005 03:57:35 PM |
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In article <1115148645.443099.106310@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Jenny6833A <Jenny6833A@aol.com> wrote:
Martin McPhillips wrote:
Isn't it odd how ending a pedigreed fascist regime, equal parts
murderous, militaristic, and defiant of international sanctions,
and replacing it with a consensual democratic government is
viewed as a failure by Leftist university professors?
We replace governments we don't like and don't need, regardless of
their characteristics, and support those we do like or do need,
regardless of their characteristics.
The "we" part is a lie because I have never replaced any foreign
government.
The "regardless" part is also a lie. As flawed as the US
administrations have been at handling such matters, they have never
been morally equivalent to despots like the Baathists, Communists,
etc..
And all the while we thumb our noses at the what the vast majority
of the rest of the world thinks we ought to do.
Aren't we also murderous, militaristic, and defiant of
international opinion?
Speak for yourself. Since I'm part of "we", then we are not
murderous. If you've murdered someone, you should turn yourself
in.
The "militaristic" bit is uselessly ambiguous.
I don't know about you, but I am quite happy to defy international
opinion, particularly when there are hundreds of millions of dupes
and savages guided not by reason but by fanatical religious beliefs
and a disdain for individualism.
But, of course, we are under God, so we know what's best for
everyone else.
Damned fine point! No one has the right to decide what's best for
other people. I agree.
Now, will you sit out elections from now on, like I do?
=====
EE
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| User: "Veruyu" |
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| Title: Re: #Science still losing battle for America's minds |
03 May 2005 05:21:25 PM |
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Jenny6833A wrote:
Martin McPhillips wrote:
Isn't it odd how ending a pedigreed fascist
regime, equal parts murderous, militaristic,
and defiant of international sanctions, and
replacing it with a consensual democratic
government is viewed as a failure by Leftist
university professors?
We replace governments we don't like and don't need, regardless of
their characteristics, and support those we do like or do need,
regardless of their characteristics.
And all the while we thumb our noses at the what the vast majority of
the rest of the world thinks we ought to do.
Aren't we also murderous, militaristic, and defiant of international
opinion?
But, of course, we are under God, so we know what's best for everyone
else.
We certainly know better than you do.
.
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| User: "Kurt Lochner" |
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| Title: Re: #Science still losing battle for America's minds |
03 May 2005 04:45:23 PM |
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Dr. Scott Erb wrote:
By the way, if anyone is interested, on my blog
(http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm) I have a series I've started on
spirit and belief, where I try to define the limits of science and religion.
Creationists and doubters of modern physics won't like it:
http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/spirit.htm
I'll look into it in a bit.. Thanks..
Just peaking in the newsgroups to see who's still around.
Nobody here, boss.. *>chuckling<*
I've been far too busy to post, but maybe after I get back from
taking students to Italy later this month I'll join in the discussion.
Henh! I've been invaded by grandkids here, tape is rolling, natch..
Since the Iraq war has proven a failure (I recall all that talk about
re-making the mideast, getting oil prices down, pressuring Syria and
Iraq, etc.), it'll be interesting to see if the hawks have admitted
error, or if they are still trying to claim that everything's cool :-)
ciao, scott
I see you've managed to 'set off' Beagle Whines again..
--Nice to see you're still in good form, Doctor..
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| User: "Kurt Nicklas" |
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| Title: Re: #Science still losing battle for America's minds |
03 May 2005 07:01:08 PM |
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In article <4277F0F3.DEFB08BF@hotmail.com>, Kurt Lochner says...
I see you've managed to 'set off' Beagle Whines again..
--Nice to see you're still in good form, Doctor..
The thread is about 'minds', Locknutz. What makes you think that applies to
YOU??
--
Kurt Nicklas
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| User: "Kurt Lochner Weasel Remember!" |
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| Title: Re: #Science still losing battle for America's minds |
04 May 2005 03:32:37 PM |
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"knickers" <inawad@ru.aputz> whined again at:
Kurt Lochner wrote:
I see you've managed to 'set off' Beagle Whines again..
--Nice to see you're still in good form, Doctor..
The thread is about 'minds', [Mr. Lochner]
That usually sends you off screaming for cover, knickers..
--*>plonk!<*
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| User: "1586 Dead zepp1586#2211finestplanet.com" |
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| Title: Re: #Science still losing battle for America's minds |
03 May 2005 09:17:15 PM |
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On Tue, 03 May 2005 16:45:23 -0500, "Kurt Lochner"
<kurt_lochner@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dr. Scott Erb wrote:
By the way, if anyone is interested, on my blog
(http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm) I have a series I've started on
spirit and belief, where I try to define the limits of science and religion.
Creationists and doubters of modern physics won't like it:
http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/spirit.htm
I'll look into it in a bit.. Thanks..
Just peaking in the newsgroups to see who's still around.
Nobody here, boss.. *>chuckling<*
I've been far too busy to post, but maybe after I get back from
taking students to Italy later this month I'll join in the discussion.
Henh! I've been invaded by grandkids here, tape is rolling, natch..
Since the Iraq war has proven a failure (I recall all that talk about
re-making the mideast, getting oil prices down, pressuring Syria and
Iraq, etc.), it'll be interesting to see if the hawks have admitted
error, or if they are still trying to claim that everything's cool :-)
ciao, scott
I see you've managed to 'set off' Beagle Whines again..
--Nice to see you're still in good form, Doctor..
Glad to see you drop in, Scott. I hit your blog, read the piece on
ethics and happiness (no wonder many of the right wingers around here
are such miserable sods!) and bookmarked it. I hope to be able to
contribute, since much of what you are discussing is of considerable
interest to me.
Nope, none of the right wingers have admitted error, let alone fault.
I don't they're allowed to.
-
Carl M. Forti, a spokesman for the National Republican
Congressional Committee -- "A month from now,
people are not going to remember [Terri Schiavo],"
he said, and 20 months from now, in the 2006
elections, "it will be irrelevant."
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/26/politics/26delay.html?
Not dead, in jail, or a slave? Thank a liberal!
Pay your taxes so the rich don't have to.
For the finest in liberal/leftist commentary,
http://www.zeppscommentaries.com
For news feed (free, 10-20 articles a day)
http://groups.yahoo.com/subscribe/zepps_news
For essays (donations accepted, 2 articles/week)
http://groups.yahoo.com/subscribe/zepps_essays
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| User: "Eagle Eye" |
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| Title: Re: #Science still losing battle for America's minds |
03 May 2005 12:53:39 PM |
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In article <imOde.175877$cg1.81994@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Scott Erb <scotterb@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
[snip]
Just peaking in the newsgroups to see who's still around.
You peaked years ago, before you let slip your propensity for
stealing from your employer.
=====
EE
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| User: "Scott Erb" |
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| Title: Re: #Science still losing battle for America's minds |
03 May 2005 01:29:54 PM |
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"Eagle Eye" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message
news:20050503175339.16796.qmail@nym.alias.net...
In article <imOde.175877$cg1.81994@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Scott Erb <scotterb@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
[snip]
Just peaking in the newsgroups to see who's still around.
You peaked years ago, before you let slip your propensity for
stealing from your employer.
Ah, the loons are still lying, I see. Oh well, I just hope they keep your
cage clean. Now, back in the filter with you.
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| User: "Eagle Eye" |
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| Title: Re: #Science still losing battle for America's minds |
03 May 2005 02:25:12 PM |
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In article <CqPde.176054$cg1.123065@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Scott Erb <scotterb@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
"Eagle Eye" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message
news:20050503175339.16796.qmail@nym.alias.net...
In article <imOde.175877$cg1.81994@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Scott Erb <scotterb@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
[snip]
Just peaking in the newsgroups to see who's still around.
You peaked years ago, before you let slip your propensity for
stealing from your employer.
Ah, the loons are still lying
Google shows you're a liar, as well as a thief.
J.T. Kennedy said it best, so I'll use his citations of your original
posts (with updated links) to display the evidence of your original
admission and your revisionist lies today:
The relevant story about Scott Erb *is* of course far worse.
Nobody gives a rat's ***** what he did at 18, what's revealing and
instructive here is that at the ripe age of 37 Associate
Professor Scott Erb *still* felt it was right to steal:
"Was I stealing? Sure, according to the law. But I felt
morally justified and still do. He was stealing from us, having
us work hard to make him rich, paying minimum wage to most of
us. I continued to work hard and manage well, but the employees
ate free from then on when I was in charge..."
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=5le4mc%241mbq%243%40sol.caps.maine.edu&output=gplain
[ http://tinyurl.com/a6lbw ]
Less than a year ago, at age 41, Erb had still not resolved the
moral question. He thought the question of whether his theft was
justified or not was a "tough call":
"It's still a tough call. I do think that the employer was
exploiting workers, and there is justification in retaliatory
force. It is similar to how Billy justifies not paying his
taxes, which is also considered by most a form of theft. But in
thinking it through I'm leaning much stronger towards avoiding
that kind of logic, as it makes it too easy to rationalize what
is convenient. But it's a tough call."
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3B2E9FA0.BF610E3%40verizon.net&output=gplain
[ http://tinyurl.com/adv2o ]
This has never been about what Scott Erb did at 18. It's about
the moral judgment of a grown man who is teaching 18 year old
students.
-
John T. Kennedy III
No Treason - A Journal of Liberty
http://www.no-treason.com/
http://tinyurl.com/8yhbb
=====
EE
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| User: "Eagle Eye" |
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| Title: Re: #Science still losing battle for America's minds |
03 May 2005 02:27:04 PM |
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In article <CqPde.176054$cg1.123065@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Scott Erb <scotterb@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
"Eagle Eye" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message
news:20050503175339.16796.qmail@nym.alias.net...
In article <imOde.175877$cg1.81994@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Scott Erb <scotterb@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
[snip]
Just peaking in the newsgroups to see who's still around.
You peaked years ago, before you let slip your propensity for
stealing from your employer.
Ah, the loons are still lying
Google shows you're a liar, as well as a thief.
J.T. Kennedy said it best, so I'll use his citations of your original
posts (with updated links) to display the evidence of your original
admission and your revisionist lies today:
The relevant story about Scott Erb *is* of course far worse.
Nobody gives a rat's ***** what he did at 18, what's revealing and
instructive here is that at the ripe age of 37 Associate
Professor Scott Erb *still* felt it was right to steal:
"Was I stealing? Sure, according to the law. But I felt
morally justified and still do. He was stealing from us, having
us work hard to make him rich, paying minimum wage to most of
us. I continued to work hard and manage well, but the employees
ate free from then on when I was in charge..."
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=5le4mc%241mbq%243%40sol.caps.maine.edu&output=gplain
[ http://tinyurl.com/a6lbw ]
Less than a year ago, at age 41, Erb had still not resolved the
moral question. He thought the question of whether his theft was
justified or not was a "tough call":
"It's still a tough call. I do think that the employer was
exploiting workers, and there is justification in retaliatory
force. It is similar to how Billy justifies not paying his
taxes, which is also considered by most a form of theft. But in
thinking it through I'm leaning much stronger towards avoiding
that kind of logic, as it makes it too easy to rationalize what
is convenient. But it's a tough call."
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3B2E9FA0.BF610E3%40verizon.net&output=gplain
[ http://tinyurl.com/adv2o ]
This has never been about what Scott Erb did at 18. It's about
the moral judgment of a grown man who is teaching 18 year old
students.
-
John T. Kennedy III
No Treason - A Journal of Liberty
http://www.no-treason.com/
http://tinyurl.com/8yhbb
=====
EE
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| User: "Bill Bonde by a commodius vicus of" |
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| Title: Re: #Science still losing battle for America's minds |
03 May 2005 01:42:35 PM |
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Scott Erb wrote:
By the way, if anyone is interested, on my blog
(http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm) I have a series I've started on
spirit and belief, where I try to define the limits of science and religion.
Creationists and doubters of modern physics won't like it:
http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/spirit.htm
Just peaking in the newsgroups to see who's still around. I've been far too
busy to post, but maybe after I get back from taking students to Italy later
this month I'll join in the discussion. Since the Iraq war has proven a
failure (I recall all that talk about re-making the mideast, getting oil
prices down, pressuring Syria and Iraq, etc.), it'll be interesting to see
if the hawks have admitted error, or if they are still trying to claim that
everything's cool :-)
Actually, some of those who were cool to the invasion have come round to
the idea that it has freed up a logjam in the Middle East and given
opportunity for improvement. The Syrian military is out of Lebanon.
Pretty amazing.
--
"Throw me that lipstick, darling, I wanna redo my stigmata."
+-Jennifer Saunders, "Absolutely Fabulous"
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| User: "Scott Erb" |
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| Title: Re: #Science still losing battle for America's minds |
03 May 2005 02:21:26 PM |
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"Bill Bonde ('by a commodius vicus of recirculation')"
<pristoplainical@plazmototifficatious.org> wrote in message
news:1115145752.a2c4ebe12a9263ceb287170b52cc6d0e@teranews...
Scott Erb wrote:
By the way, if anyone is interested, on my blog
(http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm) I have a series I've
started on
spirit and belief, where I try to define the limits of science and
religion.
Creationists and doubters of modern physics won't like it:
http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/spirit.htm
Just peaking in the newsgroups to see who's still around. I've been far
too
busy to post, but maybe after I get back from taking students to Italy
later
this month I'll join in the discussion. Since the Iraq war has proven a
failure (I recall all that talk about re-making the mideast, getting oil
prices down, pressuring Syria and Iraq, etc.), it'll be interesting to
see
if the hawks have admitted error, or if they are still trying to claim
that
everything's cool :-)
Actually, some of those who were cool to the invasion have come round to
the idea that it has freed up a logjam in the Middle East and given
opportunity for improvement. The Syrian military is out of Lebanon.
Pretty amazing.
Pretty amazing to tie Syria's action to Iraq! That was an internal Lebanese
situation (and it's not necessarily turning out as good as originally
hoped). But at least I see you're finding ways to interpret evidence in
your favor. Maybe I'll stop by this summer when I have more time and we can
compare our different interpretations of events. Cheers!
.
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| User: "Martin McPhillips" |
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| Title: Re: #Science still losing battle for America's minds |
03 May 2005 02:18:21 PM |
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"Scott Erb" <scotterb@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:WaQde.176173$cg1.143532@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
"Bill Bonde ('by a commodius vicus of recirculation')"
<pristoplainical@plazmototifficatious.org> wrote in
message
news:1115145752.a2c4ebe12a9263ceb287170b52cc6d0e@teranews...
Scott Erb wrote:
By the way, if anyone is interested, on my blog
(http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm) I have a
series I've
started on
spirit and belief, where I try to define the limits of
science and
religion.
Creationists and doubters of modern physics won't like
it:
http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/spirit.htm
Just peaking in the newsgroups to see who's still
around. I've been far
too
busy to post, but maybe after I get back from taking
students to Italy
later
this month I'll join in the discussion. Since the Iraq
war has proven a
failure (I recall all that talk about re-making the
mideast, getting oil
prices down, pressuring Syria and Iraq, etc.), it'll be
interesting to
see
if the hawks have admitted error, or if they are still
trying to claim
that
everything's cool :-)
Actually, some of those who were cool to the invasion
have come round to
the idea that it has freed up a logjam in the Middle East
and given
opportunity for improvement. The Syrian military is out
of Lebanon.
Pretty amazing.
Pretty amazing to tie Syria's action to Iraq! That was an
internal Lebanese
situation (and it's not necessarily turning out as good as
originally
hoped). But at least I see you're finding ways to
interpret evidence in
your favor. Maybe I'll stop by this summer when I have
more time and we can
compare our different interpretations of events. Cheers!
Yeah, there's no reason to see any reason to
interpret the ending of a 30-year occupation
of Lebanon by a fascist Syrian government
as having anything to do with the hope and
freedom signaled by 8 million Iraqis defying
terrorists to go vote.
Oh, and "things are not necessarily turning out as
originally hoped." Well, next time let's make sure
anything that happens in the world happens
perfectly, the way it always has.
It appears that Scott has taken too much
comfort in the fact that he has really been
making his case to all those students who
have absolutely no standard by which to
judge his blather.
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| User: "Bill Bonde by a commodius vicus of" |
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| Title: Re: #Science still losing battle for America's minds |
03 May 2005 02:44:24 PM |
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Scott Erb wrote:
"Bill Bonde ('by a commodius vicus of recirculation')"
<pristoplainical@plazmototifficatious.org> wrote in message
news:1115145752.a2c4ebe12a9263ceb287170b52cc6d0e@teranews...
Scott Erb wrote:
By the way, if anyone is interested, on my blog
(http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm) I have a series I've
started on
spirit and belief, where I try to define the limits of science and
religion.
Creationists and doubters of modern physics won't like it:
http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/spirit.htm
Just peaking in the newsgroups to see who's still around. I've been far
too
busy to post, but maybe after I get back from taking students to Italy
later
this month I'll join in the discussion. Since the Iraq war has proven a
failure (I recall all that talk about re-making the mideast, getting oil
prices down, pressuring Syria and Iraq, etc.), it'll be interesting to
see
if the hawks have admitted error, or if they are still trying to claim
that
everything's cool :-)
Actually, some of those who were cool to the invasion have come round to
the idea that it has freed up a logjam in the Middle East and given
opportunity for improvement. The Syrian military is out of Lebanon.
Pretty amazing.
Pretty amazing to tie Syria's action to Iraq!
I thought you were some expert on this stuff. Syria is feeling pressured
as are other Middle East nations because of the changes in Iraq.
That was an internal Lebanese
situation (and it's not necessarily turning out as good as originally
hoped).
I know how it has to magically instantly turn to perfection to be
something to talk about to you, but it is moving in the right direction.
We are seeing that sort of thing elsewhere as well.
But at least I see you're finding ways to interpret evidence in
your favor. Maybe I'll stop by this summer when I have more time and we can
compare our different interpretations of events. Cheers!
No fair interpreting goods things as if they were bad.
--
"Throw me that lipstick, darling, I wanna redo my stigmata."
+-Jennifer Saunders, "Absolutely Fabulous"
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| User: "Jeffrey Turner" |
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| Title: Re: #Science still losing battle for America's minds |
04 May 2005 08:04:29 AM |
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Bill Bonde ('by a commodius vicus of recirculation') wrote:
Scott Erb wrote:
"Bill Bonde ('by a commodius vicus of recirculation')"
<pristoplainical@plazmototifficatious.org> wrote in message
news:1115145752.a2c4ebe12a9263ceb287170b52cc6d0e@teranews...
Scott Erb wrote:
By the way, if anyone is interested, on my blog
(http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm) I have a series I've
started on
spirit and belief, where I try to define the limits of science and
religion.
Creationists and doubters of modern physics won't like it:
http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/spirit.htm
Just peaking in the newsgroups to see who's still around. I've been far
too
busy to post, but maybe after I get back from taking students to Italy
later
this month I'll join in the discussion. Since the Iraq war has proven a
failure (I recall all that talk about re-making the mideast, getting oil
prices down, pressuring Syria and Iraq, etc.), it'll be interesting to
see
if the hawks have admitted error, or if they are still trying to claim
that
everything's cool :-)
Actually, some of those who were cool to the invasion have come round to
the idea that it has freed up a logjam in the Middle East and given
opportunity for improvement. The Syrian military is out of Lebanon.
Pretty amazing.
Pretty amazing to tie Syria's action to Iraq!
I thought you were some expert on this stuff. Syria is feeling pressured
as are other Middle East nations because of the changes in Iraq.
Is that why the US is still sending people to Syria to be
tortured? To further "pressure" them? The US is already pretty
bogged down in Iraq and Afghanistan, threatening Syria wouldn't
be all that smart.
--Jeff
--
As the Government of the United
States of America is not, in any
sense, founded on the Christian
religion...
--Treaty with Tripoli, 1797
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| User: "Jenny6833A" |
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| Title: Re: #Science still losing battle for America's minds |
03 May 2005 03:01:50 PM |
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Bill Bonde ('by a commodius vicus of recirculation') wrote:
Actually, some of those who were cool to the invasion have come round
to
the idea that it has freed up a logjam in the Middle East and given
opportunity for improvement.
All good actions have some bad results. And, as in this case, vice
versa.
The Syrian military is out of Lebanon. Pretty amazing.
Are you attributing that to having foreign troops in Iraq?
Why is it "good" for American troops to "stabilize" a country but "bad"
when someone else's troops do the same?
:-)
Jenny
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| User: "Bill Bonde by a commodius vicus of" |
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| Title: Re: #Science still losing battle for America's minds |
04 May 2005 12:21:36 AM |
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Jenny6833A wrote:
Bill Bonde ('by a commodius vicus of recirculation') wrote:
Actually, some of those who were cool to the invasion have come round
to
the idea that it has freed up a logjam in the Middle East and given
opportunity for improvement.
All good actions have some bad results. And, as in this case, vice
versa.
Why is invading Iraq such a bad thing?
The Syrian military is out of Lebanon. Pretty amazing.
Are you attributing that to having foreign troops in Iraq?
Why is it "good" for American troops to "stabilize" a country but "bad"
when someone else's troops do the same?
We don't want our troops in Iraq. Iraq needs the help right now. If
Lebanon needed help like that, it was a long time gone.
--
"Throw me that lipstick, darling, I wanna redo my stigmata."
+-Jennifer Saunders, "Absolutely Fabulous"
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