| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
07 Jan 2005 07:16:46 PM |
| Object: |
Re: Seriously all arguments aside |
Shelley Sunshine wrote:
I dont know whos right or who is wrong...all I know is thousands of
people have died for no good reason and I am having a problem trying
to
reconcile this fact with a loving God who has the power to stop such
a
thing and allowing it to happen....I am a human and if I had the
power I
would have stepped in and stopped such destruction....if the
witnesses
preach the end of the world that is one thing but I am sure these
ones
think it is...where is the love? where is the compassion? it sickens
me...can someone please explain why a loving God would allow such a
thing??? I AM SO CONFUSED
Do you blame God?
WHEN earthquakes and hurricanes kill and maim without respect for
whether their victims are righteous or wicked, do you blame God? When
you read that an innocent man spent years in prison for the offense
of another, do you wonder why such injustices occur? What do you
think when an upright, God-fearing Christian writhes with the pain of
incurable cancer, while his loose-living, unprincipled neighbor
prospers and enjoys excellent health? Does it cause you to wonder why
the righteous suffer?
Some feel that a righteous person should be rewarded with freedom
from suffering, that suffering is an evidence of one's having
committed unrighteous acts. That was the argument used by the three
supposed friends of Job when they came to comfort him. Job was
suffering indescribably from disease and pain. He had lost all his
material possessions, including his ten lovely children. His brothers
and intimate acquaintances, who had held him in high esteem, detested
his very presence. Even his wife turned away from him and recommended
that he curse God and die.-Job, chaps. 1, 2; 19:13-19.
After Job's three visitors had silently observed his excruciating
pain and extreme humiliation for seven days and nights, finally one
of them spoke, not comfortingly or sympathetically, but with
stinging, cutting words that accused Job of unrighteous acts for
which he was now suffering punishment. "Remember, please," said
Eliphaz: "Who that is innocent has ever perished? And where have the
upright ever been effaced? According to what I have seen, those
devising what is hurtful and those sowing trouble will themselves
reap it. Through the breath of God they perish, and through the
spirit of his anger they come to an end." Yes, contended Eliphaz, God
is punishing you for your sins, Job. That is why you are
suffering.-Job 4:7-9.
Have you not heard people, even clergymen, use the same argument:
that calamities are acts of God to punish people for their sins?
However, the charge against Job was false. God was not punishing him
because of some unrighteous acts he had committed. Job was righteous.
That is why Jehovah said to Eliphaz the Temanite: "My anger has grown
hot against you and your two companions, for you men have not spoken
concerning me what is truthful as has my servant Job."-Job 42:7.
GOD NOT TO BLAME
Today human suffering is observed on every hand. Millions of people
starve and live in extreme poverty. Unlike Job, who "did not sin or
ascribe unseemliness to God," many become embittered and blame God.
This was especially true during World War II when bombs rained from
the sky, spreading death and suffering to both good people and bad.
Yet when men break God's laws by hating and warring against one
another, can they properly blame Him when suffering results? If a
parent warns his children that they should not fight among themselves
and they disregard the good counsel and assault one another with
sticks and stones, is the parent responsible if bruises and injuries
are suffered? He is no more responsible than God is for human
suffering when people disregard his laws.
Even when righteous servants of God suffer as a result of wars and
other disasters such as hurricanes, floods and earthquakes, still God
is not to blame. It is true that in specific instances in times past
God caused disasters to execute the wicked, but on those occasions,
as in the case of the cataclysmic flood in Noah's day, a warning was
given so that there was no question in anyone's mind that God brought
the destruction as he forewarned. But there is no Scriptural
authority for believing that disasters in general are calamities God
brings upon people to punish them for their sins. To the contrary,
earthquakes, for instance, are found to be caused primarily by the
settling of the earth, and not by a direct intervention of God.
Instead of such calamities being acts of God, chance and unforeseen
occurrence are involved.
When the first human pair willfully disobeyed God they were expelled
from the garden of Eden. They thus lost for themselves and their
descendants the special protection and blessing of their Creator.
Therefore, except for special instances involving the accomplishment
of God's own purpose, what happened to mankind from day to day was
governed by chance and not by God's direction. So it is "because
time
and unforeseen occurrence befall them all" that good people and bad
suffer similarly from natural disasters, accidents, fires, and so
forth.-Eccl. 9:11.
BOTH RIGHTEOUS AND WICKED SUFFER
Sickness and disease are a chief cause of suffering. Even the young
suffer painful diseases, and this is true whether one is righteous or
wicked. Faithful young Timothy had trouble with his stomach and
suffered "frequent cases of sickness." (1 Tim. 5:23) Since Paul
makes
particular mention of this in his letter, it appears that Timothy's
sickness resulted in his experiencing a great deal of suffering. It
seems that Paul likewise suffered some physical affliction, which he
referred to as a "thorn in the flesh."-2 Cor. 12:7-9.
Why did these righteous men suffer, as did other faithful Bible
characters? For the same reason that righteous servants of God today
do-because of inherited imperfections due to sin. Humans have
received imperfect bodies from their parents, and their right conduct
before God does not now change or cure such inherited weaknesses or
susceptibilities to disease. Because of this a righteous person may
suffer, and even perish, but a wicked one may continue a long time in
his badness. On the other hand, the wicked too are born with
inherited physical weaknesses that may lead to their experiencing
suffering. The matter of chance and unforeseen occurrence is
involved.-Job 14:4; Rom. 5:12.
Those who have walked in the ways of righteousness may also suffer
because of exercising poor judgment or failure to apply Scriptural
counsel at all times. This is true of a Christian, who, contrary to
Scriptural advice, marries an unbeliever and suffers marital troubles
as a result. Or perhaps he uses poor judgment, not eating properly,
and getting insufficient rest, so that he runs himself down and
suffers because of it. David failed on one occasion to apply
Scriptural counsel and committed adultery with Bath-sheba. This
foolish act brought him much suffering, even though he repented and
did not repeat his sin. Peter, too, in a spiritually weakened
condition, denied Christ three times. The Scriptures say he wept
bitterly.-2 Sam. 11:2-4; Matt. 26:75.
Peter learned a good lesson and later gave this appropriate warning
to Christians: "Let none of you suffer as a murderer or a thief or an
evildoer or as a busybody in other people's matters." Even though
one
has formerly pursued a righteous course, such misconduct warrants
correction that can be grievous. One who suffers for such things does
not suffer as a righteous man. So take care that you do not suffer
for your lack of good judgment or failure to heed Scriptural
counsel.-1 Pet. 4:15.
The wicked often suffer because of ignoring God's counsel by
pursuing a life of overindulgence and licentious living. It is said
that Herod the Great suffered loathsome diseases acquired because of
his evil living habits, and that his palace resounded with his
agonizing cries. Today thousands of persons live a life of misery as
a result of venereal diseases contracted because of their loose
living. But even though God's law is a protection to the righteous,
still it appears that they have more than their share of suffering.
Are there reasons for this?
SUFFERING BECAUSE OF BEING RIGHTEOUS
It is observed that persons who have experienced much suffering are
often amenable to righteousness. Their experience has softened them
so that they readily conform to God's law and follow a right course.
However, a primary reason why the righteous suffer is that they are
righteous. The case of Joseph's unjust imprisonment serves as an
example.
When Joseph was sold into slavery in Egypt he was purchased by the
Egyptian court official Potiphar. Soon he came to be in charge of
Potiphar's entire household. Joseph was a very handsome man and
Potiphar's wife yearned to have relations with him; she continually
urged him to lie with her. Finally Joseph, a righteous man, answered:
"How could I commit this great badness and actually sin against
God?"
This so angered Potiphar's wife that she falsely accused Joseph and
had him thrown in prison, where he suffered unjust confinement for
more than two years.-Gen. 39:9.
Do you not admire a man like this, one that will stand up for what
is right? Would you not be proud of a son that would so appreciate
your counsel that he would suffer ridicule and persecution in order
to live by it? Imagine, then, how happy God is when his children
maintain a course of right conduct in this wicked world with all its
temptations. But you may ask, Why does God allow his servants to
suffer? The answer lies in an issue that was raised by the rebel
angel Satan the Devil. The issue involves man's integrity, and this
is shown in the case of righteous Job.
At a meeting of the angelic sons of God in heaven Jehovah asked
Satan: "Have you set your heart upon my servant Job, that there is no
one like him in the earth, a man blameless and upright, fearing God
and turning aside from bad?" The fact that God called Job's
faithfulness to Satan's attention indicates there was a contention as
to whether human creatures would keep integrity to God. Satan's reply
proves that there was such an issue, for right away he makes excuses
for Job's faithfulness. He asserts that Job serves God because of the
material blessings received and not because he loves him. He
suggests: "'For a change, thrust out your hand, please, and touch
everything he has and see whether he will not curse you to your very
face.' Accordingly Jehovah said to Satan: 'Look! Everything that he
has is in your hand. Only against him himself do not thrust out your
hand!'"-Job 1:7-12.
Job maintained a righteous course despite everything the Devil could
do; he proved that he served God because he loved him and wanted to
be pleasing in his sight. Job believed in the integrity of his
course, and so proclaimed to his accusers: "Until I expire I shall
not take away my integrity from myself!"-Job 27:5.
Men of integrity have always been willing to suffer for what they
believed in. Some have even sacrificed their lives because of love
for a person or a country. The Bible records example after example of
other persons that have had strong love for Almighty God. Above
everything else, they wanted to live a righteous life in order to be
an honor to God and thus prove the Devil's claim that he could turn
all human creatures away from God to be a lie. Although pursuing a
course of righteousness has resulted in their suffering a great deal,
they have maintained a proper attitude.
PROPER ATTITUDE TOWARD SUFFERING
It is true that in itself suffering does not bring happiness; but if
one knows that a loved one is benefited or made happy, then he can
rejoice even in the suffering. That is why the apostles, after
receiving a flogging for preaching the good news of the Kingdom,
"went their way from before the Sanhedrin, rejoicing because they had
been counted worthy to be dishonored in behalf of his name." They
were obeying God's command to preach and they knew that this was
pleasing to him. Therefore they were happy, for, as the scripture
says, "if you should suffer for the sake of righteousness, you are
happy."-Acts 5:40, 41; 1 Pet. 3:14.
This helps one to appreciate what Jesus meant when he said in the
sermon on the mount: "Happy are you when people reproach you and
persecute you and lyingly say every sort of wicked thing against you
for my sake. Rejoice and leap for joy, since your reward is great in
the heavens." (Matt. 5:10-12) When a Christian keeps integrity to God
and suffers because of it he rejoices in the knowledge that he is
proving the Devil a liar and is thus making Jehovah's heart rejoice.
Although the suffering does not make him happy, the fact that it
contributes to the vindication of God's name does. Then, too, one can
rejoice because of the reward that is promised to the faithful.-Prov.
27:11.
Everyone today is bound to experience suffering because of living
amid this wicked system of things and being subject to inherited
imperfections due to sin. The righteous can also expect to suffer
because of keeping integrity to God. But they can take heart and
rejoice, for there is a new world of God's making that is now so very
close at hand. There suffering will be no more, for God promises that
"he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no
more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be any more." So
never let present suffering embitter you. Look to the future. Yes,
place your hope and confidence in God's promised new world, where
there will be no suffering.-Rev. 21:4; 2 Pet. 3:13.
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| User: "Jez" |
|
| Title: Re: Seriously all arguments aside |
07 Jan 2005 07:53:05 PM |
|
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wrote:
Shelley Sunshine wrote:
I dont know whos right or who is wrong...all I know is thousands of
people have died for no good reason and I am having a problem trying
to
reconcile this fact with a loving God who has the power to stop such
a
thing and allowing it to happen....
Don't you idiots get it YET ??
There is no God....never was, never will be.
--
Jez
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
NFS Underground2, Americas Army And MOH-PA
yahoo ID: hellward2004
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