| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Jedidiah" |
| Date: |
27 Nov 2007 09:20:42 PM |
| Object: |
Re: The Bible and Gluttony |
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007, "Charmander" <tarrah@personals-scripts.com> wrote:
The bible advocates suicide? I knew it promited the murder of children
who swear at their parents, the murder of homosexuals, etc... But
promoting suicide also? What a revolting, immoral, and unjust lord the
Christians have. No wonder Satan rebelled, he saw God's unethical
tantrums, and tried to cast him out.
You will only be saved when you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and
Savior.
And people wonder why more are converting to Buddhism and Wicca....
Buddhists and Wiccists will only be saved when they accept Jesus Christ as
their Lord and Savior.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: The Bible and Gluttony |
28 Nov 2007 03:51:57 AM |
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"Jedidiah" <jedidiah@praisethelord.com> wrote in message
news:20071128032043.AF11D4E4C2@outpost.zedz.net...
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007, "Charmander" <tarrah@personals-scripts.com> wrote:
The bible advocates suicide? I knew it promited the murder of children
who swear at their parents, the murder of homosexuals, etc... But
promoting suicide also? What a revolting, immoral, and unjust lord the
Christians have. No wonder Satan rebelled, he saw God's unethical
tantrums, and tried to cast him out.
You will only be saved when you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and
Savior.
Saved from what?
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: The Bible and Gluttony |
28 Nov 2007 09:55:13 AM |
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On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 04:51:57 -0500, Robibnikoff wrote:
"Jedidiah" <jedidiah@praisethelord.com> wrote in message
news:20071128032043.AF11D4E4C2@outpost.zedz.net...
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007, "Charmander" <tarrah@personals-scripts.com> wrote:
The bible advocates suicide? I knew it promited the murder of
children
who swear at their parents, the murder of homosexuals, etc... But
promoting suicide also? What a revolting, immoral, and unjust lord the
Christians have. No wonder Satan rebelled, he saw God's unethical
tantrums, and tried to cast him out.
You will only be saved when you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and
Savior.
Saved from what?
From him.
Like all abusive types, it's your fault he hit you...
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
“Every normal man must be tempted at times
to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and
begin to slit throats.”
- H. L. Mencken
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: The Bible and Gluttony |
28 Nov 2007 11:04:36 AM |
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"Mark K. Bilbo" <gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote in message
news:a4qdnfUH2K38EtDanZ2dnUVZ_gednZ2d@giganews.com...
On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 04:51:57 -0500, Robibnikoff wrote:
"Jedidiah" <jedidiah@praisethelord.com> wrote in message
news:20071128032043.AF11D4E4C2@outpost.zedz.net...
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007, "Charmander" <tarrah@personals-scripts.com> wrote:
The bible advocates suicide? I knew it promited the murder of
children
who swear at their parents, the murder of homosexuals, etc... But
promoting suicide also? What a revolting, immoral, and unjust lord the
Christians have. No wonder Satan rebelled, he saw God's unethical
tantrums, and tried to cast him out.
You will only be saved when you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and
Savior.
Saved from what?
From him.
Like all abusive types, it's your fault he hit you...
Charming <cough> :P
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
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| User: "The Master" |
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| Title: Re: The Bible and Gluttony |
28 Nov 2007 11:28:01 AM |
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On Wed, 28 Nov 2007, Robibnikoff wrote:
Like all abusive types, it's your fault he hit you...
Charming <cough> :P
"I love you. I love all my children. Now worship me, or I will torture
you for all eternity! You aren't good enough! You are scum, you suck!
Be what I want you to be darn it!" - Christian God
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| User: "Charmander" |
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| Title: Re: The Bible and Gluttony |
28 Nov 2007 11:43:36 AM |
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--
What's popular isn't always right. What's right isn't always popular.
"The Master" <tardis@nospam.sdf.lonestar.org.nospam> wrote in message
news:Pine.NEB.4.64.0711281727400.25832@sdf.lonestar.org...
On Wed, 28 Nov 2007, Robibnikoff wrote:
Like all abusive types, it's your fault he hit you...
Charming <cough> :P
"I love you. I love all my children. Now worship me, or I will torture
you for all eternity! You aren't good enough! You are scum, you suck! Be
what I want you to be darn it!" - Christian God
Reminds me of the last season of Stargate SG1 and the Orrai.
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| User: "The Master" |
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| Title: Re: The Bible and Gluttony |
28 Nov 2007 10:00:33 AM |
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On Wed, 28 Nov 2007, Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
You will only be saved when you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and
Savior.
Saved from what?
From him.
Like all abusive types, it's your fault he hit you...
Reminds me of an "Atheist Prayer" in a way...
"Dear Lord, save me from your followers".
And before the trolls attack, yes, it was a frickin joke...
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| User: "Bod Bodhi" |
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| Title: Re: The Bible and Gluttony |
28 Nov 2007 04:10:06 AM |
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Robibnikoff wrote:
"Jedidiah" <jedidiah@praisethelord.com> wrote in message
news:20071128032043.AF11D4E4C2@outpost.zedz.net...
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007, "Charmander" <tarrah@personals-scripts.com> wrote:
The bible advocates suicide? I knew it promited the murder of children
who swear at their parents, the murder of homosexuals, etc... But
promoting suicide also? What a revolting, immoral, and unjust lord the
Christians have. No wonder Satan rebelled, he saw God's unethical
tantrums, and tried to cast him out.
You will only be saved when you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and
Savior.
Saved from what?
From your "Self" of course.
To kill thy "self" does not mean suicide I means to distroy the ego, id,
or self.
But of course you cannot comprehend it because your will and your ego
prevails.
Bod +
P.L.U.S. "Peace Love and Unity of Spirit."
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: The Bible and Gluttony |
28 Nov 2007 05:00:50 AM |
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"Bod Bodhi" <Bod.Bodhi@The-House-of-God.org> wrote in message
news:28b3j.137466$7_4.125852@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
Robibnikoff wrote:
"Jedidiah" <jedidiah@praisethelord.com> wrote in message
news:20071128032043.AF11D4E4C2@outpost.zedz.net...
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007, "Charmander" <tarrah@personals-scripts.com> wrote:
The bible advocates suicide? I knew it promited the murder of children
who swear at their parents, the murder of homosexuals, etc... But
promoting suicide also? What a revolting, immoral, and unjust lord the
Christians have. No wonder Satan rebelled, he saw God's unethical
tantrums, and tried to cast him out.
You will only be saved when you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and
Savior.
Saved from what?
From your "Self" of course.
To kill thy "self" does not mean suicide I means to distroy the ego, id,
or self.
But of course you cannot comprehend it because your will and your ego
prevails.
Yeah, whatever.
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
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| User: "Neil Kelsey" |
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| Title: Re: The Bible and Gluttony |
28 Nov 2007 09:16:02 AM |
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On Nov 28, 2:10 am, Bod Bodhi <Bod.Bo...@The-House-of-God.org> wrote:
Robibnikoff wrote:
"Jedidiah" <jedid...@praisethelord.com> wrote in message
news:20071128032043.AF11D4E4C2@outpost.zedz.net...
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007, "Charmander" <tar...@personals-scripts.com> wrote:
The bible advocates suicide? I knew it promited the murder of children
who swear at their parents, the murder of homosexuals, etc... But
promoting suicide also? What a revolting, immoral, and unjust lord the
Christians have. No wonder Satan rebelled, he saw God's unethical
tantrums, and tried to cast him out.
You will only be saved when you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and
Savior.
Saved from what?
From your "Self" of course.
To kill thy "self" does not mean suicide I means to distroy the ego, id,
or self.
But of course you cannot comprehend it because your will and your ego
prevails.
That sounded willfully egotistical.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: The Bible and Gluttony |
28 Nov 2007 09:55:46 AM |
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On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 10:10:06 +0000, Bod Bodhi wrote:
Robibnikoff wrote:
"Jedidiah" <jedidiah@praisethelord.com> wrote in message
news:20071128032043.AF11D4E4C2@outpost.zedz.net...
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007, "Charmander" <tarrah@personals-scripts.com>
wrote:
The bible advocates suicide? I knew it promited the murder of
children who swear at their parents, the murder of homosexuals,
etc... But promoting suicide also? What a revolting, immoral, and
unjust lord the Christians have. No wonder Satan rebelled, he saw
God's unethical tantrums, and tried to cast him out.
You will only be saved when you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and
Savior.
Saved from what?
From your "Self" of course.
To kill thy "self" does not mean suicide I means to distroy the ego, id,
or self.
But of course you cannot comprehend it because your will and your ego
prevails.
Oh good, we're safe from being like you...
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
“A Sunday school is a prison in which children do
penance for the evil conscience of their parents. ”
- H. L. Mencken
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| User: "The Master" |
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| Title: Re: The Bible and Gluttony |
28 Nov 2007 09:37:49 AM |
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On Wed, 28 Nov 2007, Bod Bodhi wrote:
To kill thy "self" does not mean suicide I means to distroy the ego, id, or
self.
Oh carp, psycho-babble... Tell me about your mother... It is ironic,
however, that Freud thought a cigar represented a ***** for all his
patients, but for him "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar". In retrospect,
I bet HE wanted to boink his mom, HE thought of ***** as he puffed his
cigar, and HE transfered his own problems to other people.
So the question must be asked, have you considered killing yourself? Is
hat how you talked yourself out of it? Or did you join a cult, and that
is how they talked you into dedicating yourself to the leader?
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| User: "Lady Veteran" |
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| Title: Re: The Bible and Gluttony |
28 Nov 2007 06:39:11 PM |
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On 28 Nov 2007 03:20:42 -0000, (Jedidiah)
wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007, "Charmander" <tarrah@personals-scripts.com> wrote:
The bible advocates suicide? I knew it promited the murder of children
who swear at their parents, the murder of homosexuals, etc... But
promoting suicide also? What a revolting, immoral, and unjust lord the
Christians have. No wonder Satan rebelled, he saw God's unethical
tantrums, and tried to cast him out.
You will only be saved when you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and
Savior.
And people wonder why more are converting to Buddhism and Wicca....
Buddhists and Wiccists will only be saved when they accept Jesus Christ as
their Lord and Savior.
Typical Christian intolerance. As many rewrites as the bible has had,
I am surprised that it says the devil did it.
Yes, I peeked.
LV
"I rode a tank and held a general's rank
When the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank."
---Sympathy for the Devil-The Rolling Stones
--------------------------------------------
"A fanatic cannot change his mind and will not
change the subject."
---Winston Churchill
----------------------------------------------
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| User: "Christopher A.Lee" |
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| Title: Re: The Bible and Gluttony |
27 Nov 2007 09:32:12 PM |
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On 28 Nov 2007 03:20:42 -0000, (Jedidiah)
wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007, "Charmander" <tarrah@personals-scripts.com> wrote:
The bible advocates suicide? I knew it promited the murder of children
who swear at their parents, the murder of homosexuals, etc... But
promoting suicide also? What a revolting, immoral, and unjust lord the
Christians have. No wonder Satan rebelled, he saw God's unethical
tantrums, and tried to cast him out.
You will only be saved when you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and
Savior.
Idiot.
And people wonder why more are converting to Buddhism and Wicca....
Buddhists and Wiccists will only be saved when they accept Jesus Christ as
their Lord and Savior.
Idiot.
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| User: "Steve Trellert" |
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| Title: Re: The Bible and Gluttony |
27 Nov 2007 09:43:37 PM |
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No, you mean "Immoral Idiot"
"Christopher A.Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:39opk39s40q3om1mn97e49o7r39omrd8u3@4ax.com...
On 28 Nov 2007 03:20:42 -0000, (Jedidiah)
wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007, "Charmander" <tarrah@personals-scripts.com> wrote:
The bible advocates suicide? I knew it promited the murder of children
who swear at their parents, the murder of homosexuals, etc... But
promoting suicide also? What a revolting, immoral, and unjust lord the
Christians have. No wonder Satan rebelled, he saw God's unethical
tantrums, and tried to cast him out.
You will only be saved when you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and
Savior.
Idiot.
And people wonder why more are converting to Buddhism and Wicca....
Buddhists and Wiccists will only be saved when they accept Jesus Christ as
their Lord and Savior.
Idiot.
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| User: "Lord Calvert" |
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| Title: Re: The Bible and Gluttony |
27 Nov 2007 09:43:39 PM |
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On Nov 27, 10:20 pm, (Jedidiah) wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007, "Charmander" <tar...@personals-scripts.com> wrote:
The bible advocates suicide? I knew it promited the murder of children
who swear at their parents, the murder of homosexuals, etc... But
promoting suicide also? What a revolting, immoral, and unjust lord the
Christians have. No wonder Satan rebelled, he saw God's unethical
tantrums, and tried to cast him out.
You will only be saved when you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and
Savior.
And people wonder why more are converting to Buddhism and Wicca....
Buddhists and Wiccists will only be saved when they accept Jesus Christ as
their Lord and Savior.
Saved from what? If Jesus Christ is all-powerful and all-knowing, he
could save the entire world with no effort at all. He chooses not to
do so. A parent who watches his children suffer when he has the power
to stop it is not worthy of adoration. He is worthy of our contempt.
Our gods must have ethics and morality superior to ours, not inferior.
No being that is that cruel merits worship from anyone.
Rich Goranson
Amherst, NY, USA
aa#MCMXCIX, a-vet#1
EAC Department of Cruel and Unusual Choreography
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: The Bible and Gluttony |
28 Nov 2007 09:54:26 AM |
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On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 19:43:39 -0800, Lord Calvert wrote:
On Nov 27, 10:20 pm, (Jedidiah) wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007, "Charmander" <tar...@personals-scripts.com> wrote:
The bible advocates suicide? I knew it promited the murder of
children
who swear at their parents, the murder of homosexuals, etc... But
promoting suicide also? What a revolting, immoral, and unjust lord
the Christians have. No wonder Satan rebelled, he saw God's unethical
tantrums, and tried to cast him out.
You will only be saved when you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and
Savior.
And people wonder why more are converting to Buddhism and Wicca....
Buddhists and Wiccists will only be saved when they accept Jesus Christ
as their Lord and Savior.
Saved from what? If Jesus Christ is all-powerful and all-knowing, he
could save the entire world with no effort at all. He chooses not to do
so. A parent who watches his children suffer when he has the power to
stop it is not worthy of adoration. He is worthy of our contempt. Our
gods must have ethics and morality superior to ours, not inferior. No
being that is that cruel merits worship from anyone.
Saved from himself of course. The great cosmic Tony Soprano.
"Got a nice soul there. Be a shame if anything happened to it..."
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
“A Sunday school is a prison in which children do
penance for the evil conscience of their parents. ”
- H. L. Mencken
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| User: "Olrik" |
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| Title: Re: The Bible and Gluttony |
27 Nov 2007 11:10:39 PM |
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On Nov 27, 10:20 pm, (Jedidiah) wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007, "Charmander" <tar...@personals-scripts.com> wrote:
The bible advocates suicide? I knew it promited the murder of children
who swear at their parents, the murder of homosexuals, etc... But
promoting suicide also? What a revolting, immoral, and unjust lord the
Christians have. No wonder Satan rebelled, he saw God's unethical
tantrums, and tried to cast him out.
You will only be saved when you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and
Savior.
And people wonder why more are converting to Buddhism and Wicca....
Buddhists and Wiccists will only be saved when they accept Jesus Christ as
their Lord and Savior.
Sounds like a mafia protection racket to me, fly-by hypocrite.
Olrik
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| User: "V" |
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| Title: Re: The Bible and Gluttony |
28 Nov 2007 08:50:29 AM |
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On Nov 27, 10:20 pm, (Jedidiah) wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007, "Charmander" <tar...@personals-scripts.com> wrote:
The bible advocates suicide? I knew it promited the murder of children
who swear at their parents, the murder of homosexuals, etc... But
promoting suicide also? What a revolting, immoral, and unjust lord the
Christians have. No wonder Satan rebelled, he saw God's unethical
tantrums, and tried to cast him out.
You will only be saved when you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and
Savior.
And people wonder why more are converting to Buddhism and Wicca....
Buddhists and Wiccists will only be saved when they accept Jesus Christ as
their Lord and Savior.
The truth stands on it own and does not need massaging for it to be
true. To get at the truth, all we need is test through practical
application.
We can even 'Test God' though such means if you can detach your 'blind
faith' and replace it with a 'rational mind' for a moment.
I'm sure God wont mind if you ask a few question? Would God send you
to hell for inquiring as to his goodness?
Would you send another to everlasting torture just for asking a
question?
How much more good is God than you or I, so don't be worried if your
true vision of God is as you imagine God to be...all loving..all good.
We can ask the question Would the 'ideal' of a perfect, all loving God
approve of the Hebrew and Christian God Yahweh?
No, the ideal of God would not approve of God if the old testament is
a true accounting of Yahweh. The evidence shows that the God of the
monotheists as written in the bible is a man made story, whether it is
the story of Jesus or the God Yahweh of the Hebrews.
I write this after being a Catholic for 50+ years. What caused my
change in heart about God? Was it God's refusal to answer a self
centered prayer...No. Was it all the evil in the world...No. My change
in heart with my belief in God came from 'real study' of the dogma and
the books claimed to be the written words of God with a desire to get
closer to God. But, the more I studied, the further from God my
studies took me. But this is only a by product of the study of truth,
for if the study leads to a certain direction one must follow it, if
one is truth based. And if one is not truth based one makes up fantasy
and excuses and lives a delusional life.
If we look at logical and philosophical arguments for God they add up
to zero as each one of these arguments can be argued for or against
God
Ontological Argument +
Ontological Argument (--)
Cosmological Argument +
Cosmological Argument (--)
Teleological Argument +
Teleological Argument (--)
-----------------------------------------
Total = ZERO
As such, we need to look deeper into what the various religions of the
monotheist say to find the truth. There are four books claiming to be
the word of God. they are the Old Testament, New Testament, Qur'an and
the Book of Mormon. (OT, NT, Q and BOM) All these books conflict, yet
all claim to be the perfect word of God? Why doesn't God make clear
which one of these books to follow so there is no misunderstanding?
After all, a mistake in direction yield everlasting torture in hell?
Since God wont answer, we will have to answer for God by asking some
questions to get at the truth that God was invented by man. In short
we will judge God by the ideals of God. Then we can see clearly these
words of God were not written by an all perfect and all loving, all
good God but were just written by men claiming to be God.
Some religious advocates say it is presumptuous of anyone to 'judge'
God. But, such persons also judge God when they say God is good? In
order to judge something good it must still be judged? From my
studies, I have judged God as a creation or fantasy of man's mind and
a God that would refuse to tell the direction for a person to take and
then take joy in torturing that person for a mistake that the person
could not avoid is definitely bad.
God was no always so silent with direction. If we go back to the OT we
can see God communicated extensively with the Hebrews. God directed
them specifically with how to design and build things and how to
worship him through burnt offerings and penance. God was very detailed
with his directions about unclean women during menses and how the
Hebrews should keep their slaves. All quotes courtesy of http://www.evilbible.com/
(BTW, they banned me from their forums...so much for freethinkers.)
"When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that
the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the
slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the
slave is his own property." Exodus 21:20-21
God approving of slavery? God not approving of the Egyptians keeping
slaves yet is OK for the Hebrews to keep slaves? Again not a perfect
God. If we read further we will see God very bigoted and condemning of
all other nationalities except his chosen people the Hebrews. What
makes the world think such a bigoted God would accept them when God
had such hatred for others he supposedly created?
If we go to more modern times and the Christian dogma where God
offered his son to be tortured and killed in order for God to forgive
our sins? What do we do when we forgive another? Do we kill our son or
daughter or just forgive? How much more a perfect God could have just
forgiven us without killing his son? But God seemed to emphasize the
killing children in his words to his faithful as we can see in these
OT quotes.
"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the
city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy;
have no pity! Kill them all - old and young, girls and women and
little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your
task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy
leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards
with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the
city and did as they were told." Ezekiel 9:5-7
"The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will
die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived. Even
if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you. It
will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone. I have
watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre. But now
Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered." O LORD, what
should I request for your people? I will ask for wombs that don't
give birth and breasts that give no milk. The LORD says, "All their
wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them. I will drive
them from my land because of their evil actions. I will love them no
more because all their leaders are rebels. The people of Israel are
stricken. Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit.
And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children."
Hosea 9:11-16
"Suppose a man has a stubborn, rebellious son who will not obey his
father or mother, even though they discipline him. In such cases, the
father and mother must take the son before the leaders of the town.
They must declare: 'This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious and
refuses to obey. He is a worthless drunkard.' Then all the men of the
town must stone him to death. In this way, you will cleanse this evil
from among you, and all Israel will hear about it and be afraid."
Deuteronomy 21:18-21
What happened to this vocal God that seemed to die with the authors
of the Old Testament, for no one ever hears a peep from God? Did God
die with the writers? BTW, if God was a perfect designer, should he
have not made women 'unclean' and not have menses and that way God
could have saved some breath and cut his 600+ commandants to the
Hebrew down by one? See: http://members.ozemail.com.au/~adamgosp/otcomm.htm
God even commanded the people how to bake bread, (with human
excrement) discriminate against the handicapped, kill the faithful of
other religions and how much money to pay to rape young women.
Each day prepare your bread as you would barley cakes. While all the
people are watching, bake it over a fire using dried human dung as
fuel and then eat the bread. For this is what the LORD says: "Israel
will eat defiled bread in the Gentile lands, where I will banish
them!" Then I said, "O Sovereign LORD, must I be defiled by using
human dung? For I have never been defiled before. From the time I was
a child until now I have never eaten any animal that died of sickness
or that I found dead. And I have never eaten any of the animals that
our laws forbid." "All right," the LORD said. "You may bake your
bread with cow dung instead of human dung." Ezekiel 4:12-15
"No one whose testicles have been crushed or whose penis has been cut
off may be admitted into the community of the Lord." Deuteronomy
23:2
"If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not
engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he
must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never
be allowed to divorce her." Deuteronomy 22:28-29
"If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved
wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other
gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other
nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the
other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon
him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the
first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with
you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you
astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of
Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall
fear and never do such evil as this in your midst." Deuteronomy
13:7-12
Yes, the writers for God's word will be able to show you how the God
they claim to be perfect is not perfect and just an extension of
imperfect man's mind. If you read the bible with an open mind that is
logical and rational you will see this for yourself. It is only when
we make excuses for God that God is relieved from being a true God.
In the OT it says God is a 'jealous God' and requires worship.
"You shall not carve idols for yourselves in the shape of anything in
the sky above or on the earth below or in the waters beneath the
earth; you shall not bow down before them or worship them. For I, the
Lord, your God, am a jealous God, inflicting punishment for their
father's wickedness on the children of those who hate me, down to the
third and fourth generation" Exodus 20:4-5
Once someone 'requires' anything outside themselves the persons peace
will be disturbed. Yet the popular belief that God is perfect...the
two (jealousy and perfection) don't go together. In addition such a
God would not pass the peace test. If the God did not receive worship
the God's peace would be disturbed from having demands and not getting
those demands fulfilled. Then the God would have its peace disturbed
even further by torturing the person for everlasting eternity since
that person did not provide the worship the God demanded. Does all
this smack of a perfect being, perfectly at peace or just man
impersonating God
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=133.0
You see, many people do with religion and their religious fixations
the same as the compulsive gambler does with their fantasy.
Excerpt From: Gamblers Anonymous pamphlet "The dream world of a
compulsive gambler." A lot of time is spent creating images of great
and wonderful things they are going to do as soon as they make "the
big win."... No one can convince them that their great schemes will
not come true. They believe they will, for without this dream world,
life for them would not be tolerable.
The truth is that which does not change. Man made religion is always
changing. This phenomena of putting a spin on truth goes back to the
earliest formations of the church when it was voted on by presumptuous
individuals as to how to describe God and the trinity. You see it was
all voted on and the proponent that had the 'best spin' on it got the
credit for Nicene Creed. But in reality no one has a clew about this
subject. Want a modern day example of such spiritual sickness, spin
and lies?
"Roman Catholic Church Considers Abolishing Limbo Theory" A commission
that met at the Vatican last week is expected to recommend to Pope
Benedict XVI that the teaching of limbo be dropped. The Roman Catholic
Church may abolish the concept of limbo - the place some Catholics
believe the spirit of babies go if they die before being baptized
Snip from: http://www.christianpost.com/article/20051209/22492.htm
But it is impossible to have a rational discussion with most religious
devotees when they insist on irrationality as their first line of
defense. We are rational beings, logical beings, yet belief in God can
only come about through irrational, non logical thought. Would a God
that created rational, logical beings require such beings to follow
irrational fantasy in order to believe in him? An example? While
discussing fossils and ancient coal with a Christian he claimed that
fossils and ancient coal are not really old and 'planted by the devil'
to trick people from believing in God? this also recalls the book of
Enoch, a book that was left out of the bible by the powers that
decided what went into it when it was first formed. This book
described many fantastic claims about how Eve was tricked by the devil
masquerading as an angel. Would God create such subterfuge as planted
fake fossils in order to trick his loved ones only to condom them to
burning and torture for all eternity in hell because they cannot find
out the rational and logical truth? Yes, such an unjust God would if
your God is that of a sickly, delusional, religious devotee that
believe is such fantasy.
Even when we discuss the story of Jesus, is it rational for God to
have to kill his only begotten son in order to forgive us? What do we
do when we forgive another? Do we kill our mother, son or daughter in
order to forgive another person? Yet, Christians cling to this
fantasy. Jesus was never born on December 25 and in fact there is no
evidence Jesus was ever born at all. Christians adopted Christmas from
the pagan December 25 holiday in order to promote their own agenda,
just as they did with Halloween.
For further discussion of the Jesus myth see:
http://www.vexen.co.uk/books/jesusmysteries.html
http://www.atheists.org/christianity/myth.html
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/fabrication.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_as_myth
http://home.ca.inter.net/~oblio/home.htm
http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/7748/106446
http://www.abc.net.au/religion/stories/s1517078.htm
http://www.atheist-community.org/library/articles/read.php?id=700
http://www.christianorigins.com/goguel/
http://www.bede.org.uk/price1.htm
http://www.objectivethought.com/atheism/jesusmyth.html
http://pages.ca.inter.net/~oblio/jesus.html
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/historicus/jesus.html
http://home.iae.nl/users/lightnet/creator/jesusmyth.htm
http://rationalrevolution.net/articles/origins_of_christianity.htm
"Theology is a superstition - Humanity is a religion" - Robert G.
Ingersol
BTW, what does work if all religion is created man made fantasy?
Just dropping God is not the answer for inner peace as this forum is
proof positive of that. With the multitude of spiritually sick
individuals here we can see humans need something in their life to
guide them to peace...at least it is so within our modern society of
sick complexities Neil.
See my previous discussion of this topic of what does work:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=4.0
Take care,
V (Male)
Agnostic Freethinker
Practical Philosopher
AA#2
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| User: "V" |
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| Title: Re: The Bible and Gluttony |
28 Nov 2007 08:49:23 AM |
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On Nov 27, 10:20 pm, (Jedidiah) wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007, "Charmander" <tar...@personals-scripts.com> wrote:
The bible advocates suicide? I knew it promited the murder of children
who swear at their parents, the murder of homosexuals, etc... But
promoting suicide also? What a revolting, immoral, and unjust lord the
Christians have. No wonder Satan rebelled, he saw God's unethical
tantrums, and tried to cast him out.
You will only be saved when you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and
Savior.
And people wonder why more are converting to Buddhism and Wicca....
Buddhists and Wiccists will only be saved when they accept Jesus Christ as=
their Lord and Savior.
God going to torture me in everlasting hell if I don't belive in him?
Well, I look to Jesus as the Taoist scholars look to Lao Tzu...a
myth...but a myth containing much wisdom.
The problem with always going back to the bible for the last word is
this.
The bible is not the Word of God but the word of man.
And the only thing that confirms the bible is the bible which is not a
confirmation.
We can say the same arguments for the Qur=B7'an or the Book of Mormons.
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=3D318.0
We must also be careful with putting words in the mouth of Jesus as
many Christians like to do
After all no one that ever wrote about Jesus ever met Jesus and it is
ALL hearsay.
When I quote Jesus I try to attribute such quotes to' the Myth of
Jesus.'
I think if Christians Worldview was:
We have no proof,
We are 100% faith based, but that is how we like it.
Our religion is all man made from the trinity to the NT,
We offer peace and charity to all mankind.
And have no desire to control or hurt another
=2E..atheists could be at peace with that. (most of em anyway.)
My Buddhist friends like to say Buddha said this or Buddha said that.
But again, the Buddha wrote down nothing and the little we have in the
Pali cannon's 20,000+ pages is from his butler Amanda. But the vast
majority of the cannon is not from Amanda or the Buddha at all.
see:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=3D508.0
May I be so bold to suggest that you drop the pretense and lies that
you have been grasping onto for entire life and rebuild your life
through a foundation of truth and testing and regenerate yourselves
into a truth based agnostic freethinker?
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=3D470.0
I was at a religious discussion where the group was composed of a wide
spectrum of believers and non believers.
One atheist said he ran his life by the golden rule.
Another person piped up that the golden rule came from the bible,
which made the atheist wince.
The atheist seemed to take pride in his self sufficiency and did not
like to run his life by anything that came out of the bible.
When it came up that the concept of golden rule might be from an
earlier source than the bible, the atheist was relieved.
This was a good reminder to me to examine where my guiding light
resides?
Is it ego based or truth based?
When the guiding light of this atheist was not grounded in the bible
he was happy. But when it came from an area that he did not like, he
was upset. How can the same material be used to build a palace by one
man, yet only build a hovel for another?
By one spiritual practitioner seeing truth and applying it to live a
life at peace. And the other person only seeing prejudice and problems
and doing nothing.
Every religion was made by man and as such every religion is imperfect
as it is run by man.
Despite these imperfections, each religion also has many
"perfection's" within it as well.
We can still be open to peace generating tools from any of the
religions and spiritual traditions that are available to us if we are
serious about being at peace.
This requires us to run our life by truth and not by prejudice.
In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus said: "Therefore, whatever you want
men to do to you, do also to them" (Matthew 7:12). Nowadays this verse
is commonly referred to as "The Golden Rule," and is more commonly
quoted as: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Here
are some of the earliest sources for this concept of reciprocity
~1970-1640 BCE "Do for one who may do for you, / That you may cause
him thus to do." - The Tale of the Eloquent Peasant 109-110, Ancient
Egypt, tr. R.B. Parkinson.
* ~700 BCE "That nature only is good when it shall not do unto another
whatever is not good for its own self." - Dadistan-i-Dinik 94:5,
Zoroastrianism.
* ? BCE "Whatever is disagreeable to yourself do not do unto others."
- Shayast-na-Shayast 13:29, Zoroastrianism.
* ~550 BCE "You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against your
countrymen. Love your fellow as yourself: I am the LORD." - Tanakh,
new JPS translation, Leviticus 19:18, Judaism.
* ~500 BCE "Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find
hurtful." - Udana-Varga 5:18, Buddhism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethic_of_reciprocity
Now, whether you believe in God or believe in Jesus or are an atheist
or Buddhist does this wisdom not apply to you? This truth is universal
in nature as it is based not on being of a certain religion, other
than that of the religion of humanity.
In this case, you can adopt a peace generating tool and apply it to
your life irrespective of your religious beliefs or lack thereof. I
had to chuckle one time when an atheists argued that the golden rule
is not perfect, so he said he does not follow it. When I questioned
him about what he does follow as well as the state of perfection that
applied to his life, all he could do was reply with ad hominem
attacks.
If we are waiting for perfection when it comes to spiritual studies we
will always be disappointed. Before applying perfection to anything
outside of us, we should examine the perfection within us. The nature
of humans is that of imperfection, so we must always look towards
direction and forget perfection.
I heard a story one time in a Yoga lecture that illustrates this
point. "Range is of the ego - Form is of the soul." The only thing we
need to be concerned with is how is our form when it comes to our
spiritual practice and our life.
Regarding the golden rule? It is more perfect than imperfect, so it is
a most useful tool to live a life at peace by. And when we combine it
with other tools such as universality, natural law, contrast the
greater good with the greater right, etc the synergistic effect is
close to perfection as humans can get with this subject. But it takes
some thinking and one will not see it without an open mind.
Wisdom for living a life at peace is all around us for the taking. But
many of us get blinded with labels and personal prejudices. Whenever
we take it upon ourselves to beat down, we are headed in a direction
of destroying peace. We destroy our own peace as well as others
peace.
As such, I practice from many religious and spiritual traditions
without problems or prejudices and readily look for such gifts
irrespective of what label they come under - on the contrary I am most
grateful wherever I find them. If I am not able to use a concept, I
leave it alone, but do not spend my time or energies to beat others
down. Do we like to be beaten down?
I saw some paintings in a Japanese museum that showed a cousin of the
Buddha being of great power and to show his strength he went up to a
baby elephant and pushed it down to the ground. A second painting
showed the Buddha helping this baby elephant back up to his feet and
the Buddha lifted the elephant high up over his head and said, "It is
much better to uplift - than to tear down."
Whether this is a true story or not I do not know. But we can all
benefit from uplifting rather than destroying.
I see this predisposition to destruction many times in responses I
receive from my posts.
The critiques offer much in the line of 'no goods' but they seldom do
they offer any substantive tools to finding peace.
Maybe I do not have it '100% right' but I have it 'right enough' to be
able to be at peace if I apply these principles. If I waited for
perfection, I would never act. I use the tools at hand.
Aristotle ~ "It is the mark of an educated mind to rest satisfied with
the degree of precision which the nature of the subject admits and not
to seek exactness where only an approximation is possible."
This being able to 'rest satisfied' is something the perfectionists
lack and why they will never be at peace until they stop collecting
concepts and start using the concepts of peace generations.
The atheist I mentioned above demonstrated this with his blanket
dismissal of the golden rule since it is not 100% perfect.
He could offer no substitutes for the golden rule, all he could do was
succumb to personal attacks on me.
We can examine our writing to see what useful tools for finding peace
we offer to others it also says a lot about our own practice of
generating inner peace.
When you practice peace promotion with others you will reap inner
peace promotion. When you practice destroying others peace, you will
reap self destruction of inner peace.
Take care,
V (Male)
Agnostic Freethinker
Practical Philosopher
AA#2
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| User: "V" |
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| Title: Re: The Bible and Gluttony |
28 Nov 2007 08:51:45 AM |
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On Nov 27, 10:20=EF=BF=BDpm, (Jedidiah) wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007, "Charmander" <tar...@personals-scripts.com> wrote:
The bible advocates suicide? =EF=BF=BDI knew it promited the murder of c=
hildren
who swear at their parents, the murder of homosexuals, etc... =EF=BF=BDBu=
t
promoting suicide also? =EF=BF=BDWhat a revolting, immoral, and unjust lo=
rd the
Christians have. =EF=BF=BDNo wonder Satan rebelled, he saw God's unethica=
l
tantrums, and tried to cast him out.
You will only be saved when you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and
Savior.
And people wonder why more are converting to Buddhism and Wicca....
Buddhists and Wiccists will only be saved when they accept Jesus Christ as=
their Lord and Savior.
"The great object is sensation---to feel that we exist. It is the
craving void which drives us to travel to intemperate but keenly felt
pursuits of every description whose principal attraction is the
agitation inseparable from their accomplishment." ~ George Gordon,
Lord Byron
I first learned about the topic of sensation addiction through my
Buddhist practice and not from Jesus.
My Buddhist practice reminds me to be mindful of the present moment
and not escape from it by abusing the senses.
What is the hallmark of an addict?
One who refuses to accept what is by abusing the senses to escape from
the present moment.
All our addictions have pleasure aspects within them and we get
rewards for participating in them in the form of euphoric experiences.
Euphoric experience can be related to the spiritual as well.
The definition of a religious mystic is one that partakes in an
altered state of conciseness with God / god or the spiritual realm.
Our addictions also give us this altered state of consciousness and
feeling of euphoria.
So, we can say that our drugs are our gods and our addiction is our
religion.
There is a reason to our madness - it is not just pure madness as most
addicts think.
Some persons I run into feel guilty for having senses. They get super
sensitized to anything that affects them. They do not look at the
senses as a gift from a higher power, instead look at them as a
curse.
Coming to peace with our senses and learning to enjoy them - but not
abuse them is the answer. And for those looking for an excuse to
continue addiction, do not look upon this post as an excuse to keep
using your drug of choice. If you missed my previous post "The 7
Benefits Addictions Provide Us" and want a copy write me.
From: How to Want What You Have:
"People who dedicate their lives to the pursuit of sensual pleasure
find that the more pleasure they get, the more they want. Small,
ordinary pleasures soon lose their power to please and must be
replaced with more intense or exotic ones. Heedless sensualists
usually meet a bad end. They learn the hard way that their desires are
relentless and insatiable."
We are spiritual beings residing in a physical body and must balance
this fact. The Buddha recognized this as he gave up being an ascetic
himself in favor of the middle path, a path of moderation which
rejected both sensory indulgence as well as extreme mortification.
If we want peace with this subject it all revolves around whether or
not you are abusing your senses and does not revolve around the fact
that you have senses that nature provided you with.
Try asking if the activity placing unreasonable demands on my time and
energy, will it place me in legal jeopardy or endanger my mental,
physical or spiritual health? You see, there never will be a shortage
of ways that humans can find to abuse the mind or the body by living a
life of extremes.
The important question is how to find a balance between the mind and
the body to be at peace in the present. So, don't feel guilty about
having senses or desires, just work on not abusing them.
Once I started to practice mindfulness of the present moment, this
practice opened up a new area of sense enjoyment by just being
present. Drugs took me away from the present and I was anything but
aware of my real senses. In fact, my senses were dulled from being
drugged up. I liked the artificial sense of euphoria I received from
various drugs, but this euphoria was not sustainable, natural or
healthy. Sustainability and health aspects are both areas I now use to
judge things that affect my senses.
If you look into your own addictive areas, you can see how your drug
of choice affected your senses and how your were not necessarily
addicted to the drug - you were addicted to the sensation the drug
provided. This is where sensation addiction comes in. Without
receiving these sensations our drug loses it luster. Sensation of the
mouth, genitals, brain - addiction all revolves around sensations and
how we respond to them.
"I drink to keep body and soul apart" ~ Oscar Wilde
Take care,
V (Male)
Agnostic Freethinker
Practical Philosopher
Futurist
AA#2
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: The Bible and Gluttony |
28 Nov 2007 08:32:07 AM |
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On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 03:20:42 +0000, Jedidiah wrote:
You will only be saved when you accept Jesus Christ...
....didn't exist.
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
“The alms-giver, in return for a trifling expenditure
on this earth, will be rewarded with an infinity of bliss
post-mortem. This purely selfish note is struck with
great clarity by Judaism, and only less clearly by
Christianity....religion has not really promoted charity,
but debased it.”
- H. L. Mencken
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| User: "Hatter" |
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| Title: Re: The Bible and Gluttony |
28 Nov 2007 08:45:57 AM |
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On Nov 28, 9:32 am, "Mark K. Bilbo" <gm...@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 03:20:42 +0000, Jedidiah wrote:
You will only be saved when you accept Jesus Christ...
...didn't exist.
I still think there is a distinct possibility he did. I just can
reasonably determine he was some sort of supernatural man-god with
magical powers
Hatter
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| User: "The Master" |
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| Title: Re: The Bible and Gluttony |
28 Nov 2007 07:21:23 AM |
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On Wed, 28 Nov 2007, Jedidiah wrote:
The bible advocates suicide? I knew it promited the murder of children
who swear at their parents, the murder of homosexuals, etc... But
promoting suicide also? What a revolting, immoral, and unjust lord the
Christians have. No wonder Satan rebelled, he saw God's unethical
tantrums, and tried to cast him out.
You will only be saved when you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and
Savior.
God does not love you, he only tolerates you so long as you boost his ego
through worship. The moment you question him, he turns his back on you.
God is immoral, even by human standards. Satan saw this, and tried to
over throw the lord of hate. But God won, disfiguring Satan and throwing
him into the pit of fire.
God only loves what he wants you to be, he cares nothing about you.
Satan, on the other hand, loves and accepts you for who you are. Step out
of the light, and embrase the everlasting love of the darkness.
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| User: "Ragnar" |
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| Title: Re: The Bible and Gluttony |
28 Nov 2007 01:38:20 PM |
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On Nov 28, 8:21 am, The Master <tar...@nospam.sdf.lonestar.org.nospam>
wrote:
On Wed, 28 Nov 2007, Jedidiah wrote:
The bible advocates suicide? I knew it promited the murder of children
who swear at their parents, the murder of homosexuals, etc... But
promoting suicide also? What a revolting, immoral, and unjust lord the
Christians have. No wonder Satan rebelled, he saw God's unethical
tantrums, and tried to cast him out.
You will only be saved when you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and
Savior.
God does not love you, he only tolerates you so long as you boost his ego
through worship. The moment you question him, he turns his back on you.
God is immoral, even by human standards. Satan saw this, and tried to
over throw the lord of hate. But God won, disfiguring Satan and throwing
him into the pit of fire.
God only loves what he wants you to be, he cares nothing about you.
Satan, on the other hand, loves and accepts you for who you are. Step out
of the light, and embrase the everlasting love of the darkness.
And apparently the Lord is always broke, hence the constant begging
and wheedling for donations on his behalf.
So how can he be all powerful if he can't even manage his own money?
Ragnar
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: The Bible and Gluttony |
27 Nov 2007 10:42:23 PM |
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One fine day in alt.atheism, (Jedidiah)
bloodied us up with this:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007, "Charmander" <tarrah@personals-scripts.com>
wrote:
The bible advocates suicide? I knew it promited the murder of
children
who swear at their parents, the murder of homosexuals, etc... But
promoting suicide also? What a revolting, immoral, and unjust lord
the Christians have. No wonder Satan rebelled, he saw God's unethical
tantrums, and tried to cast him out.
You will only be saved when you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and
Savior.
Saved from what? Death? Dream on, idiot.
And people wonder why more are converting to Buddhism and Wicca....
Buddhists and Wiccists will only be saved when they accept Jesus
Christ as their Lord and Savior.
Except, of course, for the verses in the bible that say salvation is from
works, not faith. Maybe those contradicting verses cancel each other out,
eh?
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Convicted by Earthquack.
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