| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Bill Baker" |
| Date: |
23 May 2004 08:22:48 PM |
| Object: |
Re: The Lord Jesus Wants to Heal the SICK Today! |
On Sun, 23 May 2004 17:01:45 -0700, (Brother Buck
LaFever) wrote in message
news:<d6bc1367.0405231601.576ea52e@posting.google.com>:
"Anne Reynolds" <lesbyanne@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<1085178556.32125.1@nnrp-t71-03.news.uk.clara.net>...
Bright blessings, Anne! I'm Brother Buck LaFever, representing the
First Universal Christian Kingdom World Evangelical Temple. I sincerely
hope I'll be able to help you and your friends with your problems.
Remember that Jesus loves you and wants you to be part of His kingdom,
the First Universal Christian Kingdom that He founded during His earthly
ministry two millennia ago.
Nope, sorry. Mother Hickey founded it when she was 16. She's not Jesus,
and she's not 2,000 years old.
I'd love to test that one out lurlean!
Lurlean. I strongly advise against trying. The Bible says, "Ye shall
not tempt [test] the Lord thy God.... Ye shall diligently keep the
commandments of the Lord your God, and His testimonies, and His
statutes, which He hath commanded thee. And thou shalt do that which is
right and good in the sight of the Lord..." (Deuteronomy 6:16-18). What
about homosexual attraction is good, productive, or beneficial? What
good does it do for the human race? What does it accomplish for
humanity as a whole?
Population control. The more people that pop out 14 kids, the more
population control is needed.
Well Lurlean, I'm curious too, and as you obviously don't think there
is anything wrong in asking anyone the sort of personal questions you
do, I'll ask you. When you and Thurgood have sex, does he arouse you
first, or do you just lie back with your legs apart and he puts it in
you. Also do you ever do it in different positions, like you on top of
him, or him entering you from behind?
I can't speak directly for Sister Lurlean and Brother Thurgood, but as a
True Christian I can tell you that the majority of people who engage in
the frivolous sexual play you've described do so only after the mystery
has left their marriage or sexual relationship. True Believers are
careful never to abuse or trivialize God's bedtime blessings, so the
fundamental magic of the act of marital love remains fresh for us year
after year. There is no need for us to resort to playing games or
trying out unusual positions. Extensive foreplay is normally part of
procreative love, but the emphasis is always on tenderness and
compassion instead of mere arousal. We would never follow in the
footsteps of the heathen who use profane language during the acts of
love or screen a pornographic video to put themselves in the mood.
If you think sex is only about procreation, you're missing a lot.
But it is so important for us to have the opinion of a true christian
Christian.
Not for her.
woman,
Period. Sister Lurlean will pop in from time to time to gauge the
progress of my lectures. Right now she's busy making preparations for
the birth of her firstborn child. And didn't "Bard" specifically ask
Sister Lurlean to go away until she had "matured," or something along
those lines?
Or at least until she stops taking LSD, or Special K, or whatever
hallucinogen she's on.
is he a rabbit? sorry Rabbi?
Neither. I am an ordained Lay Brother in the First Universal Christian
Kingdom World Evangelical Temple. I am employed as managing director of
our Church's sexual reorientation camps, Camp Straight Arrow for Boys
and Camp Diamond Hymen for Girls. We successfully reverse homosexual
disorientation in the young. As the Bible says, "Train up a child in
the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it"
(Proverbs 22:6).
Sorry, but if a person is homosexual, there's nothing you can do to
reverse that. Just like left-handed people. You may force them to write
with their right hand, but they will always be left-handed.
Won't have your feminine insight into this debate.
I'll ask my lovely wife Lila, an ex-lesbian, to join in the conversation
later. I am an ex-bisexual myself, fully experienced in all the sins of
Sodom and the transgressions of Gomorrah. Jesus saved me from a life of
sexual excess and I am pleased to serve Him by leading people like you
back onto the strait and narrow path that leads to eternal life (Matthew
7:14).
Is that so, Ruf... uh... Bern... uh... Buck?
Surely not lurlean,
Lurlean.
Not for her.
That's somewhat of an oxymoron using the words true and christian
Christian.
Not for her.
in the same sentence surely?
Obviously we don't think so. Tell me, sister, what exactly is your
problem with Christianity? Why are you so critical of it?
I can tell you that I am critical of anyone who pushes their beliefs on
other people. You leave us alone and we'll leave you alone.
In what ways, if any, has it harmed you or hampered your passage through
life? And for that matter, what, in your opinion, is truth? How can
you be so sure Christianity is inherently false?
How can you be so sure Christianity is inherently true?
I think it is you who is obsessed with homosexuality, we are simply
gay!
Isn't it possible that God has burdened Sister Lurlean's heart to find
and effect a cure for what she sincerely believes is a spiritual
illness?
Isn't it possible that she is simply deluded?
Why is he
He.
happy? You haven't converted anyone,
How do you know that? Sister Lurlean's ministry to adult homosexuals
has a 68% long-term success rate. You simply haven't met any of the
people she's rescued from a life of homosexual abandon. We typically
remove them from the environment that allowed their sexual
misconceptions to take root in the first place.
And put them into a mind-control cult.
I think if you had real faith you would try harder.
I'm sure she is trying harder -- but like all of us she has her
priorities. Did you really gain anything from making fun of her the way
you did?
Absolutely! She is very entertaining, and I enjoyed laughing at her
immense stupidity and religious delusions.
The capital letters still don't convince me, and I think you are
beginning to doubt now too, if you'd only admit it to yourself.
I hardly think so. Sister Lurlean was simply advising you to observe
the basic rules of English composition, in which all proper nouns are
capitalized. These conventions have nothing to do with respect or
credibility.
No, she was writing the word in all-capitals, in order to try to convince
people that she is a TRUE Christian. It didn't work.
Jesus loves you, my children,
And Mithra loves you, too.
Brother Buck LaFever
Camp Straight Arrow
Cleansing Confused Youth
--
Lurlean Lie #3:
Otherwise you wouldn't go to orgy's [sic] all the time the way you do.
news:7908c278.0310181718.ac2f573@posting.google.com
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| User: "Brother Buck LaFever" |
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| Title: Re: The Lord Jesus Wants to Heal the SICK Today! |
25 May 2004 10:25:57 PM |
|
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Bill Baker <wbaker@postini.spamcon.org> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.05.24.01.22.41.255915@postini.spamcon.org>...
Nope, sorry. Mother Hickey founded it when she was 16.
When our co-pastor was sixteen, she was neither a mother nor a Hickey!
We call the One True Church that Christ Jesus founded nearly two
millennia ago the First Universal Christian Kingdom. It may have been
known by other names during the intervening years, but it's still the
One True Church.
She's not Jesus, and she's not 2,000 years old.
Perhaps not, but she speaks on Our Lord's behalf, preaching the
baptism of repentance for the remission of sin.
Population control. The more people that pop out 14 kids, the more
population control is needed.
It is likely that Thurgood and Lurlean will eventually adopt a few of
the children God has promised them. Surely you can't object to that.
What studies have been done to gauge the effectiveness of
homosexuality as a means of population control in human beings? Which
societies were studied? How effective has it proved to be, and over
what span of time? If you believe that gays and lesbians help keep
the population under control, do you support their right to marry and
have children?
If you think sex is only about procreation, you're missing a lot.
The human reproductive system has a distinctly obvious purpose, don't
you think?
Not for her.
I see. There's no reason to single Sister Lurlean out for special
treatment. Under what circumstances should the noun "Christian" be
spelled with a small c? And according to which set of rules?
Or at least until she stops taking LSD, or Special K, or whatever
hallucinogen she's on.
What is it about her demeanor that suggests to you that she takes
hallucinogenic drugs? Are religious convictions ever genuine in your
eyes? If so, under what conditions?
Sorry, but if a person is homosexual, there's nothing you can do to
reverse that. Just like left-handed people. You may force them to write
with their right hand, but they will always be left-handed.
I beg to differ with you there, brother. I have successfully treated
hundreds of cases of sexual disorientation. Almost all have been
reversible. Never underestimate the healing power of God.
Is that so, Ruf... uh... Bern... uh... Buck?
It's understandable that you're confused at this point. These are
confusing times. The Lord has sent me here to help put your wearied
mind at ease. I'll pray for you.
Not for her.
I was under the impression that a capital letter should be used at the
beginning of all proper names. Why make an exception for Lurlean?
Are you suggesting she's common? If you dislike her so much, why not
simply ignore her?
Not for her.
Under what circumstances should the noun "Christian" be spelled with a
small c? And according to whose rules?
I can tell you that I am critical of anyone who pushes their beliefs on
other people. You leave us alone and we'll leave you alone.
Who "pushes" their beliefs on you specifically? Our Lord taught us to
"go...into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature"
(Mark 16:15). You are free to respond to our preaching in whatever
way you see fit, with absolutely no obligation to react to it at all
if you so choose.
How can you be so sure Christianity is inherently true?
Mostly that it achieves what every other worldview fails to bring
about -- the complete transformation of sinners into saints.
Isn't it possible that she is simply deluded?
I don't think so. Strange as it may seem, I can assure you that she
truly cares about your well-being and eventual salvation. Is
solicitude not preferable to indifference?
And put them into a mind-control cult.
Perhaps. Some of us are convinced it's better to control the mind
than to let it to run wild.
Absolutely! She is very entertaining, and I enjoyed laughing at her
immense stupidity and religious delusions.
How can you be so sure they're delusions? Is she any less entitled to
her convictions than you are to yours? And do you typically laugh at
the mentally challenged? Does making fun of them make you feel
superior to them? Aren't you doing the good sister a disservice by
mocking her? What ethical principle is served by your derision of
those less advantaged than you are?
No, she was writing the word in all-capitals, in order to try to convince
people that she is a TRUE Christian. It didn't work.
How would you recommend that she emphasize a word she wants to stress?
If as you maintain Sister Lurlean is no true Christian, who is, in
your opinion?
And Mithra loves you, too.
And what has Mithra done for you, brother?
Yours in Christ,
Brother Buck LaFever
Camp Straight Arrow
Cleansing Confused Youth
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| User: "Bill Baker" |
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| Title: Re: The Lord Jesus Wants to Heal the SICK Today! |
26 May 2004 05:56:40 AM |
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(Brother Buck LaFever) wrote in message
news:<d6bc1367.0405251925.69af8120@posting.google.com>...
Bill Baker <wbaker@postini.spamcon.org> wrote in message
news:<pan.2004.05.24.01.22.41.255915@postini.spamcon.org>...
Nope, sorry. Mother Hickey founded it when she was 16.
When our co-pastor was sixteen, she was neither a mother nor a Hickey!
Well, I don't know what her last name was back then. So wouldn't it
be logical that I refer to her as she is known now, so there is no
confusion?
We call the One True Church that Christ Jesus founded nearly two
millennia ago the First Universal Christian Kingdom. It may have been
known by other names during the intervening years, but it's still the
One True Church.
What was it called before it was called the First Universal Christian
Kingdom?
She's not Jesus, and she's not 2,000 years old.
Perhaps not, but she speaks on Our Lord's behalf, preaching the
baptism of repentance for the remission of sin.
That leads me to believe that your "church" is merely a cult. Most
cult leaders proclaim to speak for God.
Population control. The more people that pop out 14 kids, the more
population control is needed.
It is likely that Thurgood and Lurlean will eventually adopt a few of
the children God has promised them. Surely you can't object to that.
Well, I wouldn't if I knew that they would be good parents. I am
worried for the sake of their children, because of what Lurlean told
us about how she was raised.
What studies have been done to gauge the effectiveness of
homosexuality as a means of population control in human beings? Which
societies were studied? How effective has it proved to be, and over
what span of time?
It is simply a fact that out gays and lesbians do not have unplanned
pregnancies.
If you believe that gays and lesbians help keep the population under control,
do you support their right to marry and have children?
Of course.
If you think sex is only about procreation, you're missing a lot.
The human reproductive system has a distinctly obvious purpose, don't
you think?
It has more than one distinctly obvious purpose.
Not for her.
I see. There's no reason to single Sister Lurlean out for special
treatment. Under what circumstances should the noun "Christian" be
spelled with a small c? And according to which set of rules?
When the person writing the word doesn't feel that it's warranted.
Or at least until she stops taking LSD, or Special K, or whatever
hallucinogen she's on.
What is it about her demeanor that suggests to you that she takes
hallucinogenic drugs? Are religious convictions ever genuine in your
eyes? If so, under what conditions?
When a person realizes that their religious convictions are nothing
more than their opinion.
Sorry, but if a person is homosexual, there's nothing you can do to
reverse that. Just like left-handed people. You may force them to write
with their right hand, but they will always be left-handed.
I beg to differ with you there, brother. I have successfully treated
hundreds of cases of sexual disorientation. Almost all have been
reversible. Never underestimate the healing power of God.
Or at least that's what they tell you.
Is that so, Ruf... uh... Bern... uh... Buck?
It's understandable that you're confused at this point.
Yes, because I've heard this song and dance before.
These are confusing times. The Lord has sent me here to help put your wearied
mind at ease. I'll pray for you.
No need. Please don't bother.
Not for her.
I was under the impression that a capital letter should be used at the
beginning of all proper names. Why make an exception for Lurlean?
Are you suggesting she's common? If you dislike her so much, why not
simply ignore her?
I would if she wasn't spreading falsehoods.
Not for her.
Under what circumstances should the noun "Christian" be spelled with a
small c? And according to whose rules?
See above.
I can tell you that I am critical of anyone who pushes their beliefs on
other people. You leave us alone and we'll leave you alone.
Who "pushes" their beliefs on you specifically?
Everyone from your church who has visited this forum.
Our Lord taught us to "go...into all the world, and preach the gospel to every
creature" (Mark 16:15). You are free to respond to our preaching in whatever
way you see fit, with absolutely no obligation to react to it at all
if you so choose.
And I am responding in the way I see fit.
How can you be so sure Christianity is inherently true?
Mostly that it achieves what every other worldview fails to bring
about -- the complete transformation of sinners into saints.
Not true. Plenty of other religions promise that.
Isn't it possible that she is simply deluded?
I don't think so. Strange as it may seem, I can assure you that she
truly cares about your well-being and eventual salvation. Is
solicitude not preferable to indifference?
I am an adult capable of making my own decisions. Her solicitude is
neither needed nor wanted.
And put them into a mind-control cult.
Perhaps. Some of us are convinced it's better to control the mind
than to let it to run wild.
I'll just let that one stand on it's own.
Absolutely! She is very entertaining, and I enjoyed laughing at her
immense stupidity and religious delusions.
How can you be so sure they're delusions? Is she any less entitled to
her convictions than you are to yours?
No, but she seems to think that her convictions are superior to mine.
And do you typically laugh at the mentally challenged?
Are you saying that she is mentally challenged?
Does making fun of them make you feel superior to them? Aren't you doing the
good sister a disservice by mocking her? What ethical principle is served by
your derision of those less advantaged than you are?
When a person insists that their worldview is the only correct one,
and many attempts have been made to point out the obvious flaws, there
is usually nothing left but to mock.
No, she was writing the word in all-capitals, in order to try to convince
people that she is a TRUE Christian. It didn't work.
How would you recommend that she emphasize a word she wants to stress?
I don't care if she emphasizes those words, as long as she doesn't
expect us to believe her because of it.
If as you maintain Sister Lurlean is no true Christian, who is, in
your opinion?
I'm not saying that she's not a Christian, just that she's not in an
exclusive club of Christians who are the only ones who get access to
God.
And Mithra loves you, too.
And what has Mithra done for you, brother?
He died for our sins, just like Horus, Osiris, Marduk, Attis and
others.
Yours in Christ,
Brother Buck LaFever
Camp Straight Arrow
Cleansing Confused Youth
--
Funny Sister Lurlean quote #7:
"Still a praying for SCUM like you"
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| User: "Brother Buck LaFever" |
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| Title: Re: The Lord Jesus Wants to Heal the SICK Today! |
27 May 2004 09:17:56 PM |
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(Bill Baker) wrote in message news:<b79603c7.0405260256.21ac76f5@posting.google.com>...
Well, I don't know what her last name was back then. So wouldn't it
be logical that I refer to her as she is known now, so there is no
confusion?
Her name was Ross. She opened a branch of our Church in her hometown.
The original church was founded by Jesus Christ, a Black Jew like
both Father and Mother Hickey.
What was it called before it was called the First Universal Christian
Kingdom?
Originally it was called the Kingdom of Heaven.
That leads me to believe that your "church" is merely a cult. Most
cult leaders proclaim to speak for God.
Does anyone speak for God then, in your opinion? Did Moses speak for
God? Did Ezra? Did Paul? Does the Reverend Billy Graham? Does Dr.
Laura Schlessinger? And what, in your opinion, constitutes a cult?
Many of the white Jews in Our Lord's time thought Christianity was a
cult. Would you call Christian Science a cult? Or the Seventh Day
Adventist Church?
Well, I wouldn't if I knew that they would be good parents. I am
worried for the sake of their children, because of what Lurlean told
us about how she was raised.
She was disciplined as a child. She's learned to discipline herself
as an adult. What could be wrong with that?
It is simply a fact that out gays and lesbians do not have unplanned
pregnancies.
Never? What about the lesbians who enter relationships with men,
often under pressure from their families, and have children, only to
discover they prefer the companionship of women. Many of their
pregnancies are unplanned. Do you believe all pregnancies are
unplanned? Should unwanted children simply be discarded?
Of course.
If gays and lesbian are allowed to marry and either have their own
children, through whatever means, or adopt, how does that control the
population? Is there a single society on earth in which homosexual
activity has reduced the birth rate to any measurable degree? If not,
on what premise are you basing your opinion that homosexuality helps
control the overall population?
It has more than one distinctly obvious purpose.
Would you care to elaborate on that statement?
When the person writing the word doesn't feel that it's warranted.
I see. "If it feels good do it. If it doesn't feel good, forget it."
That's hardly an example of a categorical imperative. Do you really
think it's tenable for all of us to live our lives that way?
When a person realizes that their religious convictions are nothing
more than their opinion.
That puts quite a severe limit on religious convictions, doesn't it?
Can't a belief in God be based on knowledge? Or are you suggesting
God is unknowable?
Or at least that's what they tell you.
I have every reason to believe what people tell me about their
conversions and their healing. Why should I ignore the clear evidence
of my senses?
Yes, because I've heard this song and dance before.
Perhaps you should take up the refrain.
No need. Please don't bother.
Very well then. I won't any longer. The choice of believing or not
believing rests with you.
I would if she wasn't spreading falsehoods.
how can you be certain her pronouncements are all false? Couldn't
there be a hidden truth in them that you've failed to recognize?
See above.
If everyone does only what pleases him or her, what will become of the
world?
Everyone from your church who has visited this forum.
I see. In what way have we "pushed" our beliefs on you? In what way
do you feel pressured to accept our Church's teachings? Are you sure
this pressure comes entirely from without and not from within as well?
And I am responding in the way I see fit.
Then why do you feel "pushed" to believe anything? Does Sister
Lurlean's preaching make you uncomfortable? If so, why?
Not true. Plenty of other religions promise that.
But do they deliver on that promise consistently?
I am an adult capable of making my own decisions. Her solicitude is
neither needed nor wanted.
You are free to reject it.
I'll just let that one stand on it's
its
own.
So be it.
No, but she seems to think that her convictions are superior to mine.
Perhaps she simply wants to offer you a wider range of options than
you've considered up to now?
Are you saying that she is mentally challenged?
She is young and inexperienced.
When a person insists that their worldview is the only correct one,
and many attempts have been made to point out the obvious flaws, there
is usually nothing left but to mock.
What does that kind of mocking accomplish? Does that make the victim
of your mockery a better person? Does it make you a better person?
I don't care if she emphasizes those words, as long as she doesn't
expect us to believe her because of it.
Why can't she expect whatever she wants to? Who are you to deny her
that basic freedom? Does her assurance disturb you? If so, why?
I'm not saying that she's not a Christian, just that she's not in an
exclusive club of Christians who are the only ones who get access to
God.
Is that what she claimed? You seemed to take exception to the
expression "true Christian."
He died for our sins, just like Horus, Osiris, Marduk, Attis and
others.
According to what authority?
Yours in Christ,
Brother Buck LaFever
Camp Straight Arrow
Cleansing Confused Youth Daily
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| User: "Bard Kesnit" |
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| Title: Re: The Lord Jesus Wants to Heal the SICK Today! |
02 Jun 2004 07:10:42 AM |
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On 27 May 2004 19:17:56 -0700, (Brother Buck
LaFever) wrote:
wbaker@postini.spamcon.org (Bill Baker) wrote in message news:<b79603c7.0405260256.21ac76f5@posting.google.com>...
That leads me to believe that your "church" is merely a cult. Most
cult leaders proclaim to speak for God.
Does anyone speak for God then, in your opinion? Did Moses speak for
God? Did Ezra? Did Paul?
If you believe the Bible, those men had physical proof of God
speaking to them. You don't.
Does the Reverend Billy Graham? Does Dr.
Laura Schlessinger?
I have yet to see any physical proof that God acknowledges the
existence of either.
And what, in your opinion, constitutes a cult?
By definition, any religious group is a cult.
Well, I wouldn't if I knew that they would be good parents. I am
worried for the sake of their children, because of what Lurlean told
us about how she was raised.
She was disciplined as a child. She's learned to discipline herself
as an adult. What could be wrong with that?
She was beaten into submission as a child and was taught never
to think for herself. That is why I am worried about her abilities to
be a mother.
Do you believe all pregnancies are unplanned?
Of course not! Lots of couples plan their pregnancies based on
their life circumstances. I have friends who waited several years to
have their first child because the husband wanted to finish medical
school and his internship before they took on a child. They now have a
baby boy.
If gays and lesbian are allowed to marry and either have their own
children, through whatever means, or adopt, how does that control the
population?
Children that are adopted are already here. Whether they are
taken in by a gay couple, a straight couple, or raised in an
orphanage, they are still taking up resources.
Is there a single society on earth in which homosexual
activity has reduced the birth rate to any measurable degree? If not,
on what premise are you basing your opinion that homosexuality helps
control the overall population?
We do not become accidentally pregnant, which holds down the
population. And any couple who chooses not to have children will
control the population.
When a person realizes that their religious convictions are nothing
more than their opinion.
That puts quite a severe limit on religious convictions, doesn't it?
No, you have every right to your opinions. Just know that they
are only your opinions.
I have every reason to believe what people tell me about their
conversions and their healing. Why should I ignore the clear evidence
of my senses?
Because they can lie to you. A "cured" gay man can say he is
attracted to women, even if he can only become aroused by thinking of
naked men. He won't tell you what he is thinking, though, in order to
keep your acceptance.
I would if she wasn't spreading falsehoods.
how can you be certain her pronouncements are all false? Couldn't
there be a hidden truth in them that you've failed to recognize?
When she says that all lesbians hang out at the produce
section and recruit housewives, I know she is lying. When she says all
gays sign the gay agenda in blood, I know she is lying.
Does Sister
Lurlean's preaching make you uncomfortable? If so, why?
It makes me uncomfortable only in that I fear people believe
her lies.
No, but she seems to think that her convictions are superior to mine.
Perhaps she simply wants to offer you a wider range of options than
you've considered up to now?
I've played the "straight game" and it did nothing for me.
I'm not saying that she's not a Christian, just that she's not in an
exclusive club of Christians who are the only ones who get access to
God.
Is that what she claimed?
Yes, it is, actually.
Bard Kesnit
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| User: "Brother Buck LaFever" |
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| Title: Re: The Lord Jesus Wants to Heal the SICK Today! |
02 Jun 2004 09:30:23 PM |
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Bard Kesnit <vtcheme@hotmail.nospam..com> wrote in message news:<2ogqb0hgtiul0rk8hjts2okfsue5h91gu4@4ax.com>...
If you believe the Bible, those men had physical proof of God
speaking to them. You don't.
What proof did they have that I don't? How did you spend Memorial
Day, Sister "Bard," if I may ask?
I have yet to see any physical proof that God acknowledges the
existence of either.
God doesn't even acknowledge the existence of Brother Billy Graham and
Dr. laura Schlessinger? Who are this generation's true spiritual
leaders if they aren't, in your opinion? And what kind of "physical
proof" does God provide to anyone that He's acknowledged their
existence? Has God ever answered one of your prayers?
By definition, any religious group is a cult.
By >whose< definition? Are you saying the Catholic Church is a cult?
The Baptist Church? The Episcopal Church? The Lutheran Church? The
Methodist Church? Are there no exceptions? You know most of the
members of those groups would strongly disagree with you, don't you?
She was beaten into submission as a child and was taught never
to think for herself. That is why I am worried about her abilities to
be a mother.
She was spanked by her father out of love, but never "beaten." She
likewise has no trouble thinking and reasoning on her own. What makes
you think that someone who disagrees with you on matters of faith and
morals can't think for herself? Doesn't that reveal a prejudice on
your part?
Of course not! Lots of couples plan their pregnancies based on
their life circumstances. I have friends who waited several years to
have their first child because the husband wanted to finish medical
school and his internship before they took on a child. They now have a
baby boy.
That's nice. Many pregnancies are unplanned. Many women who put off
childbearing until their middle to late thirties find they can't have
children at all.
Children that are adopted are already here. Whether they are
taken in by a gay couple, a straight couple, or raised in an
orphanage, they are still taking up resources.
That much is right, and many gays and lesbians won't be allowed to
adopt because of their typically shady pasts. So they procure
children through "joint negotiations" with sperm and egg donors. The
overall population is not decreased at all as a result. Worse still,
children are reared in dysfunctional homes in which abominations have
become commonplace. Children deserve a loving father and a devoted
mother, not a homosexual parent and his or her
partner-in-sin-and-shame. God will not bless such a household founded
on sin.
We do not become accidentally pregnant, which holds down the
population. And any couple who chooses not to have children will
control the population.
But can you demonstrate statistically how homosexual activity has
reduced population growth anywhere in the world? Remember that in
many cultures homosexuals marry and have children.
No, you have every right to your opinions. Just know that they
are only your opinions.
Are you saying there is no truth in religion? What if there is a God?
What if He punishes sin? What if He has condemned homosexuality?
Where does that leave you? Most God-fearing people on earth have
acknowledged that God does not approve of homosexual behavior.
Homosexuals in turn brand such true believers bigots and fundies. How
can you be so sure God is tolerant of homosexuals? Is there no
possibility that True Christian Fundamentalists of all denominations
are right? What about Orthodox Jews? What about Muslims? What about
Confucianists?
Because they can lie to you. A "cured" gay man can say he is
attracted to women, even if he can only become aroused by thinking of
naked men. He won't tell you what he is thinking, though, in order to
keep your acceptance.
We have ways of testing the resolve of the recently cleansed to prove
their dedication to our principles. Moreover, in this day and age,
why would anyone want to keep our acceptance if they prefer to risk
their lives committing abominations? There are enough homosexual
support groups that can make them comfortable in their sin, at least
until the moment of death, when God shows them the error of their ways
and judges them according to their actions.
When she says that all lesbians hang out at the produce
section and recruit housewives,
Did she say specifically that >all< lesbians do that? How many times
have you visited San Francisco to see how truthful her report might
be?
I know she is lying. When she says all gays sign the gay agenda in blood,
Again, did she say >all< gays do that? You've said there is no gay
agenda, and yet many gays and lesbians concede that there is, not
necessarily in the form of a written document that anyone actually
signs, but in the sense of a unifying mission to win acceptance from
society at large that most homosexuals endorse.
I know she is lying.
She may feel that you're lying. Have you ever tried to put yourself
in her shoes?
It makes me uncomfortable only in that I fear people believe
her lies.
Don't they have that right? Not everyone considers them lies.
I've played the "straight game" and it did nothing for me.
I'm sure no one is asking you to play any sort of game. Have you
attended a church or prayer group that tried to help you overcome your
sexual desire for women? Have you consulted a prayer counselor or
faith healer?
Yes, it is, actually.
Perhaps you misunderstood her. Or perhaps she exaggerated. Didn't
you exaggerate occasionally when you were her age? Imagine being
twenty and pregnant for the first time. Have you no sympathy for a
woman who is only reaching out to you with Christian compassion and
concern? How can you bear to scorn her so?
Yours in Christ,
Brother Buck LaFever
Camp Straight Arrow
Cleansing Confused Youth Daily
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| User: "Anne Reynolds" |
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| Title: Re: The Lord Jesus Wants to Heal the SICK Today! |
03 Jun 2004 01:08:53 AM |
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"Brother Buck LaFever" <bucklafever@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d6bc1367.0406021830.637155e@posting.google.com...
Bard Kesnit <vtcheme@hotmail.nospam..com> wrote in message
news:<2ogqb0hgtiul0rk8hjts2okfsue5h91gu4@4ax.com>...
If you believe the Bible, those men had physical proof of God > >
speaking to them. You don't.
What proof did they have that I don't? How did you spend Memorial > Day,
Sister "Bard," if I may ask?
I have yet to see any physical proof that God acknowledges the > >
existence of either.
God doesn't even acknowledge the existence of Brother Billy Graham
Why should he?
and > Dr. laura Schlessinger? Who are this generation's true spiritual >
leaders if they aren't, in your opinion?
Laura Shitslinger certainy isn't
And what kind of "physical > proof" does God provide to anyone that He's
acknowledged their > existence? Has God ever answered one of your prayers?
By definition, any religious group is a cult.
By >whose< definition? Are you saying the Catholic Church is a cult? >
The Baptist Church? The Episcopal Church? The Lutheran Church? The
Methodist Church? Are there no exceptions? You know most of the
members of those groups would strongly disagree with you, don't you?
She was beaten into submission as a child and was taught never > > to
think for herself. That is why I am worried about her abilities to > > be a
mother.
She was spanked by her father out of love, but never "beaten."
The excuse of all child beaters and abusers, "we did it out of love".
She > likewise has no trouble thinking and reasoning on her own.
Of course she doesn't think on her own, she has been programmed and brain
washed to follow your fundy line.
What makes > you think that someone who disagrees with you on matters of
faith and > morals can't think for herself? Doesn't that reveal a prejudice
on > your part?>
Only prejudice of the abusive way she speaks to us, she doesn't like it when
she gets a taste of her own medicine, as you don't Buck either.
Of course not! Lots of couples plan their pregnancies based on > >
their life circumstances. I have friends who waited several years to > >
have their first child because the husband wanted to finish medical > >
school and his internship before they took on a child. They now have a
baby boy.
That's nice. Many pregnancies are unplanned. Many women who put off >
childbearing until their middle to late thirties find they can't have >
children at all.
Children that are adopted are already here. Whether they are > > taken
in by a gay couple, a straight couple, or raised in an > > orphanage, they
are still taking up resources.
That much is right, and many gays and lesbians won't be allowed to > adopt
because of their typically shady pasts. So they procure > children through
"joint negotiations" with sperm and egg donors. The > overall population is
not decreased at all as a result.
Worse still, > children are reared in dysfunctional homes in which
abominations have > become commonplace.
You cannot generalise in this way!
Children deserve a loving father and a devoted > mother, not a homosexual
parent and his or her > partner-in-sin-and-shame. God will not bless such a
household founded > on sin.>
Your god has nothing to do with it at all.
We do not become accidentally pregnant, which holds down the > >
population. And any couple who chooses not to have children will > > control
the population.
But can you demonstrate statistically how homosexual activity has >
reduced population growth anywhere in the world? Remember that in > many
cultures homosexuals marry and have children.
No, you have every right to your opinions. Just know that they > > are
only your opinions.
Are you saying there is no truth in religion?
No, there is no truth in a religion based upon intolerance, lies and bigotry
like yours.
What if there is a God?
Your god is illogical.
What if He punishes sin? What if He has condemned homosexuality? > Where
does that leave you?
But he doesn't so your argument is flawed.
Most God-fearing people on earth have > acknowledged that God does not
approve of homosexual behavior.
That is based upon a premise of fearing god. Why should people fear a god,
it is illogical, a real god would not create people just to worship him,
that puts him on a level of someone with a narcissus complex. Utter rubbish.
Homosexuals in turn brand such true believers bigots and fundies. How >
can you be so sure God is tolerant of homosexuals?
Homosexuality is not condemned nor even mentioned in the bible, it is simply
your fundamentalist interpretation at work based upon the prejudice you
already have.
Is there no > possibility that True Christian Fundamentalists of all
denominations
are right? What about Orthodox Jews? What about Muslims? What about
Confucianists?
Because they can lie to you. A "cured" gay man can say he is > >
attracted to women, even if he can only become aroused by thinking of
naked men. He won't tell you what he is thinking, though, in order to
keep your acceptance.
We have ways of testing the resolve of the recently cleansed to prove >
their dedication to our principles.
Check if they toe the fundie line LOL!
Moreover, in this day and age,
why would anyone want to keep our acceptance if they prefer to risk
their lives committing abominations? There are enough homosexual
support groups that can make them comfortable in their sin, at least
until the moment of death, when God shows them the error of their ways
and judges them according to their actions.
When she says that all lesbians hang out at the produce > > section and
recruit housewives,
Did she say specifically that >all< lesbians do that?
How many times > have you visited San Francisco to see how truthful her
report might > be?
I know she is lying. When she says all gays sign the gay agenda in
blood,
Again, did she say >all< gays do that? You've said there is no gay >
agenda, and yet many gays and lesbians concede that there is, not >
necessarily in the form of a written document that anyone actually
signs, but in the sense of a unifying mission to win acceptance from >
society at large that most homosexuals endorse.
I know she is lying.
She may feel that you're lying. Have you ever tried to put yourself > in
her shoes? >
It makes me uncomfortable only in that I fear people believe > > her
lies.
Don't they have that right? Not everyone considers them lies. >
Only people as brainwashed as she is, and you pretend to be. What exactly is
your personal agenda Buck? I don't believe you believe any of this really.
In fact I'm certain you know it is all lies, so just what is it you get out
of it?
I've played the "straight game" and it did nothing for me.
I'm sure no one is asking you to play any sort of game. Have you >
attended a church or prayer group that tried to help you overcome your >
sexual desire for women? Have you consulted a prayer counselor or > faith
healer?
They won't help.
Yes, it is, actually.
Perhaps you misunderstood her. Or perhaps she exaggerated. Didn't > you
exaggerate occasionally when you were her age? Imagine being > twenty and
pregnant for the first time. Have you no sympathy for a
woman who is only reaching out to you with Christian compassion and >
concern? How can you bear to scorn her so?>>
Calling people "queers" and "homos" in the derogatory fashion lurlean does,
is hardly indicative of christian concern or compassion. Stop trying to
defend what is indefensible Buck.
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: SHOCKING |
03 Jun 2004 04:08:51 AM |
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Interesting, educational and sometimes even offensive,
but definitely NOT produced by the John Kerry
Campaign...
http://www.emogame.com/bushgame.html
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: SHOCKING |
03 Jun 2004 07:52:10 AM |
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In article <dKmdnQewjsLmdCPdRVn-tw@comcast.com>, JTEM says...
Interesting, educational and sometimes even offensive,
but definitely NOT produced by the John Kerry
Campaign...
http://www.emogame.com/bushgame.html
Oh dear. The Statue of Liberty didn't look like she was having a good time ;)
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557
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| User: "Spooked " |
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| Title: Re: SHOCKING |
03 Jun 2004 04:42:45 PM |
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Robibnikoff <nospam@newsranger.com> wrote:
In article <dKmdnQewjsLmdCPdRVn-tw@comcast.com>, JTEM says...
Interesting, educational and sometimes even offensive,
but definitely NOT produced by the John Kerry
Campaign...
http://www.emogame.com/bushgame.html
Oh dear. The Statue of Liberty didn't look like she was having a good time ;)
Don't forget Mother Wisdom!
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: SHOCKING |
04 Jun 2004 09:39:14 AM |
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In article <ip6vb0l4digj04d2fh3t8324b3bultdc2c@4ax.com>, Spooked says...
Robibnikoff <nospam@newsranger.com> wrote:
In article <dKmdnQewjsLmdCPdRVn-tw@comcast.com>, JTEM says...>>Interesting, educational and sometimes even offensive,
but definitely NOT produced by the John Kerry
Campaign...
http://www.emogame.com/bushgame.html
Oh dear. The Statue of Liberty didn't look like she was having a good time ;)
Don't forget Mother Wisdom!
Who's that?
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557
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| User: "Spooked" |
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| Title: Re: SHOCKING |
05 Jun 2004 03:57:10 PM |
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Robibnikoff <nospam@newsranger.com> wrote:
In article <ip6vb0l4digj04d2fh3t8324b3bultdc2c@4ax.com>, Spooked says...
Robibnikoff <nospam@newsranger.com> wrote:
In article <dKmdnQewjsLmdCPdRVn-tw@comcast.com>, JTEM says...>>Interesting, educational and sometimes even offensive,
but definitely NOT produced by the John Kerry
Campaign...
http://www.emogame.com/bushgame.html
Oh dear. The Statue of Liberty didn't look like she was having a good time ;)
Don't forget Mother Wisdom!
Who's that?
She's the one who didn't bend.
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557
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| User: "Bard Kesnit" |
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| Title: Re: The Lord Jesus Wants to Heal the SICK Today! |
03 Jun 2004 09:51:31 AM |
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On 2 Jun 2004 19:30:23 -0700, (Brother Buck
LaFever) wrote:
Bard Kesnit <vtcheme@hotmail.nospam..com> wrote in message news:<2ogqb0hgtiul0rk8hjts2okfsue5h91gu4@4ax.com>...
If you believe the Bible, those men had physical proof of God
speaking to them. You don't.
What proof did they have that I don't?
Voices coming out of a bush. Being carried into Heaven in a
chariot.
How did you spend Memorial Day, Sister Bard, if I may ask?
I went to my parents for my high school reunion. Then my
family had a picnic to celebrate the birthdays of me, my grandfather,
my cousin, and my cousin's daughter.
I have yet to see any physical proof that God acknowledges the
existence of either.
God doesn't even acknowledge the existence of Brother Billy Graham and
Dr. laura Schlessinger? Who are this generation's true spiritual
leaders if they aren't, in your opinion?
I don't know - but I doubt it is someone who is convinced they
are God's conduit to Earth.
And what kind of "physical
proof" does God provide to anyone that He's acknowledged their
existence?
I gave a few examples above.
Has God ever answered one of your prayers?
Yes, He has. He led me to the love of my life. He gave me the
strength to get through my officer training. Those are just two
examples.
By definition, any religious group is a cult.
By >whose< definition?
Merrium-Webster
cult: (n) 1. formal religious veneration : WORSHIP
2 : a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of
adherents
Are you saying the Catholic Church is a cult?
The Baptist Church? The Episcopal Church? The Lutheran Church? The
Methodist Church? Are there no exceptions?
By the definition I posted above, no, there are no exceptions.
Obviously, everyone has their own opinions.
To be honest, I don't consider them cults under definition 3
from M-W (a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious) Other people
may consider them a cult, even under that defintion.
You know most of the
members of those groups would strongly disagree with you, don't you?
Of course. And they can make a case that they are NOT a cult
by using definition 3. And other people can make a case that they are
a cult under defintion 3.
She was beaten into submission as a child and was taught never
to think for herself. That is why I am worried about her abilities to
be a mother.
She was spanked by her father out of love, but never "beaten."
What is the difference? She was beaten by her father until she
agreed with everything he said.
She likewise has no trouble thinking and reasoning on her own.
Maybe on some things - like what to fix for dinner. For major
things, she is content to absorb whatever your church leaders preach
without bothering to research anything on her own.
Doesn't that reveal a prejudice on your part?
No, I have no problem who, for religious reasons, believe
homosexuality is wrong. However, I draw the line at people who
intentionally spread lies about homosexuality with no attempt to find
the truth for themselves. If she had expressed any indication that she
had bothered to sit and and think about and research the things she
says, then I would be more willing to listen to her. Every indication
she has given me is that she sits around and lets the Hickeys pour
lies into her head and then spouts them as the truth.
Of course not! Lots of couples plan their pregnancies based on
their life circumstances. I have friends who waited several years to
have their first child because the husband wanted to finish medical
school and his internship before they took on a child. They now have a
baby boy.
That's nice. Many pregnancies are unplanned.
Yes, but that isn't what you asked.
Many women who put off
childbearing until their middle to late thirties find they can't have
children at all.
Yes, and..?
Children that are adopted are already here. Whether they are
taken in by a gay couple, a straight couple, or raised in an
orphanage, they are still taking up resources.
That much is right, and many gays and lesbians won't be allowed to
adopt because of their typically shady pasts.
Shady past? <chuckle> You have a very biased viewpoint of gay
people because you spent your time living about the lowest rungs - men
on the "down low," hookers, and the like. You never had the chance to
meet the gays who grew up, went to college (or trade school, or some
other training program), worked at a blue-/white-collar job, and
settled down into a faithful relationship with a same-sex partner.
I have a security clearance, as do a lot of gays I know. You
don't get those with a "shady past."
So they procure
children through "joint negotiations" with sperm and egg donors.
You make it sound like we are buying kids on the black market!
Gays that have kids that way do it because they want a child
who is biologically theirs. (Two friends of mine are expecting a child
in October. Neither would have a problem being approved for adoption.)
The overall population is not decreased at all as a result.
In the long run, if they only have 1 child, then yes, the
overall population is decreased.
Worse still,
children are reared in dysfunctional homes in which abominations have
become commonplace.
Studies show no difference in the physical or psychological
development of children raised in heterosexual and homosexual homes.
No, you have every right to your opinions. Just know that they
are only your opinions.
Are you saying there is no truth in religion? What if there is a God?
There are good things in religion. My point is what makes you
so sure that your religion is the One Truth that you are willing to
risk damning those who listen to you by possibly causing them to
convert from the Real Truth to your brand of truth.
How are you going to feel on Judgement Day if God asks you why
you led so many people away from His Plan for their life into a life
of lies of self-hatred?
What if He punishes sin?
Lying is a sin. You are lying to yourself. So I would suggest
you get on your knees and beg His forgiveness for all of your lies.
Then stand up in your church and testify that you will not lie to God
any more and if they want to go to Heaven, they had better repent of
their sins and stop lying.
What if He has condemned homosexuality?
If the same God who made me gay then turns around and comdemns
me for it, then He isn't worth worshiping.
Most God-fearing people on earth have
acknowledged that God does not approve of homosexual behavior.
The Greeks and Romans feared the gods, but they very openly
condoned same-sex pairings.
Homosexuals in turn brand such true believers bigots and fundies.
Not at all. As I said, I have friends who don't approve of
homosexuality. That doesn't stop our friendship.
Because they can lie to you. A "cured" gay man can say he is
attracted to women, even if he can only become aroused by thinking of
naked men. He won't tell you what he is thinking, though, in order to
keep your acceptance.
We have ways of testing the resolve of the recently cleansed to prove
their dedication to our principles.
What do you do? Use magic to read their minds?
Moreover, in this day and age,
why would anyone want to keep our acceptance if they prefer to risk
their lives committing abominations?
Because liars like you have made it difficult for gays to be
open. People like you preach that being gay is evil. People like you
preach there is an answer. So gays will try to change, believing your
lies that it is possible, if they just try harder or pray more. When
they are still gay, they believe that they have failed God, which can
lead to depression and even suicide.
Go look in a mirror. Ask yourself if you are comfortable
living with yourself, knowing that your lies could be driving someone
to kill him or herself. Would God want you to drive people to commit a
sin that they cannot repent from?
How many times
have you visited San Francisco to see how truthful her report might
be?
I haven't been to SF, but I've lived in several large cities
(in the US and also in London). If lesbians are so prone to hang out
in the produce section, why have I never seen them, no matter where I
am?
I know she is lying. When she says all gays sign the gay agenda in blood,
Again, did she say >all< gays do that?
"They all want you to sign the gay agenda in
your own blood and to pledge to help them spread evil and corruption
everywhere." On 2004-02-24 19:43:42 PST
(Bard Kesnit) "that we all sign it in either menstrual blood or
semen,"
(Sister Lurlean) "That's true. We got confirmation from the DNA lab
on that one." On 2004-03-29 20:51:28 PST
"Homo's all sign this agenda" On 2003-11-06 20:06:09 PST
Is that enough evidence?
I know she is lying.
She may feel that you're lying. Have you ever tried to put yourself
in her shoes?
I tried, but she is so far removed from reality that I didn't
do very well.
Have you
attended a church or prayer group that tried to help you overcome your
sexual desire for women?
When I came out, yes.
Or perhaps she exaggerated. Didn't
you exaggerate occasionally when you were her age?
Not to the extent she does.
Imagine being twenty and pregnant for the first time.
Is that my fault? She's the one who agreed to marry Thurgood
and have his children. If she can't handle it, she shouldn't have done
it.
Bard Kesnit
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| User: "Brother Buck LaFever" |
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| Title: Re: The Lord Jesus Wants to Heal the SICK Today! |
04 Jun 2004 01:18:44 AM |
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Bard Kesnit <vtcheme@hotmail.nospam..com> wrote in message news:<rabub05qfu7cshdg0mejpsuec9cbtv09n4@4ax.com>...
Voices coming out of a bush.
God originally called Moses to preach out of a burning bush, but later
He spoke to the Lawgiver face to face, and without a lot of fanfare.
God speaks to His faithful servants regularly.
Being carried into Heaven in a chariot.
That was Elijah. Have you forgotten about the "still, small voice"?
I went to my parents
parents'
for my high school reunion. Then my family had a picnic to celebrate the
birthdays of me, my grandfather, my cousin, and my cousin's daughter.
Did you attend church? Did you bring your partner-in-sin along with
you?
I don't know -
I >do< know, my dear. You can rely on me.
but I doubt it is someone who is convinced they are God's conduit to Earth.
Who made that claim specifically?
I gave a few examples above.
Those were examples of God speaking to people, not just acknowledging
their existence. Don't they mean different things to you? I
sincerely fear you're being pulled into the vortex or devil worship
that's recently opened up here. Brother Bill Baker is now an
apostate.
Yes, He has. He led me to the love of my life.
Why did you leave him for that woman then?
He gave me the strength to get through my officer training.
I don't believe that was God. He doesn't approve of gays infiltrating
our military for any purpose.
Those are just two examples.
But He's also burdened you with afflictions, has He not? What do you
think He's trying to tell you about your lesbian appetites?
Merrium-Webster
Merrium-Webster? And just who might that be?
cult: (n) 1. formal religious veneration : WORSHIP
2 : a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of
adherents
That doesn't define a cult as "any" system of religious beliefs and
rituals. I suggest that you find a more reliable dictionary.
By the definition I posted above, no, there are no exceptions.
Obviously, everyone has their own opinions.
I< have the Truth. I'd like to share it with you.
To be honest, I don't consider them cults under definition 3
from M-W (a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious) Other people
may consider them a cult, even under that defintion.
definition... Only unbelievers brand all religions cults. True cults
have charismatic leaders who deprive their followers of their rights
to free choice. Our Holy Church is therefore no cult. We free
sinners from bondage; we don't put them in it to any person or
ideology. Most importantly, we can cure deviant sexuality through
prayer.
Of course. And they can make a case that they are NOT a cult
by using definition 3. And other people can make a case that they are
a cult under defintion
definition
3.
You are terribly confused, aren't you, dear child?
What is the difference? She was beaten by her father until she
agreed with everything he said.
As I explained, Sister Lurlean was very occasionally spanked by her
father out of love, when she was very young and needed strong
discipline. Even today she honors her father and her mother and obeys
them as much as she can. Her primary responsibility is to her husband
and unborn child now, however. By the way, I just discovered that she
is due any day now. Her first midwife was old and miscalculated the
due date. Aren't you happy for her?
Maybe on some things - like what to fix for dinner. For major
things, she is content to absorb whatever your church leaders preach
without bothering to research anything on her own.
What makes you think she never does any of her own research? When she
and Thurgood lived in the Mission near the gay cruising grounds she
would spend hours sitting by the window observing the abominable
activities that went on across the street from her bedroom. She took
extensive notes and asked detailed questions in order to understand
what she was seeing at close range for the first time in her life. I
can still recall some of her questions: "Why are they doing that?"
"What do they get out of doing that?" and "Doesn't that hurt?" She
consulted dozens of Christian publications in an effort to fathom the
cause of and cure for homosexual lust. Never once did she run to the
telephone and call Reverend Father Hickey in Texas and exclaim, "The
queers are at it again in the bushes! What do I do now?" She made
every effort to appreciate the gravity of the situation. You're only
angry because she didn't dismiss the actions of the superpromiscuous
as par for the course.
No, I have no problem who, for religious reasons, believe
believes
homosexuality is wrong. However, I draw the line at people who
intentionally spread lies about homosexuality with no attempt to find
the truth for themselves.
How can you say Sister Lurlean made no effort to find out the truth?
I lived the homosexual lifestyle for sixteen years. I >know< the
truth. Is there only one truth relative to the homosexual experience?
Surely the gay men who sought sexual contacts in the bushes night
after night might look askance at you and condemn you for trying to
"play it straight." I can remember laughing at gay friends of mine
years ago when they told me they'd "gotten married" or "settled down."
I used to make bets on how long their mock marriages would last.
More often than not I was right. I lived in an open relationship with
my partner-in-sin, and I took care of him in sickness and in health.
When I was gay I truly believed I loved him. Now I realize it was
only lust. That's the truth, Sister "Bard." I have no reason to lie
to you about my past sins.
If she had expressed any indication that she had bothered to sit and and
think about and research the things she says, then I would be more willing to > listen to her. Every indication she has given me is that she sits around and > lets the Hickeys pour lies into her head and then spouts them as the truth.
How can that be? The Hickeys rarely spent time watching the nightly
orgies that took place in the bushes last year. Isn't it possible for
someone to study a topic dispassionately and reach a conclusion
entirely different from your own? What about the lesbians who tried
to accost her, or the ones who attacked her because of her faith?
Yes, but that isn't what you asked.
Isn't it fair to say that homosexuals throw away more of their genetic
material that heterosexuals? In what way is that a good thing?
Yes, and..?
They normally regret wasting so much time chasing after mammon.
Shady past? <chuckle> You have a very biased viewpoint of gay
people because you spent your time living about the lowest rungs - men
on the "down low,"
The "down low"? Is that anything like the lowdown? You're mistaken.
I was no street hustler. As a highly paid callboy I moved easily
within the highest echelons of society. Many of my clients were
married men with children.
hookers, and the like. You never had the chance to meet the gays who grew up, > went to college (or trade school, or some other training program), worked at > a blue-/white-collar job, and settled down into a faithful relationship with > a same-sex partner.
What gives you that idea? Most male escorts are more highly educated
and cultured than their female counterparts on the street.
Well-connected gay men want to date someone with whom they can go to
the opera or discuss Shakespearean sonnets, not some rough trade from
the ghetto. I put myself through college by prostituting myself and
other men. I also starred in a couple of porn films and produced a
few in addition to that. Most of the men with whom I had
"relationships," both long- and short-term, were very wealthy and
highly placed in society, yet all were utterly corrupt and
unregenerate to the core. Many of them thought their wealth put them
above the laws of God and man. Once again you're letting your
prejudices speak for you.
I have a security clearance, as do a lot of gays I know. You
don't get those with a "shady past."
You also conceal your past, and live apart from your partner-in-sin.
Prostitution was my livelihood for much of my life.
You make it sound like we are buying kids on the black market!
That happens as well. There are travel agencies that send gay and
lesbian couples on junkets to the Ukraine and Romania, sometimes to
adopt children, sometimes simply to debauch them.
Gays that have kids that way do it because they want a child
who is biologically theirs. (Two friends of mine are expecting a child
in October. Neither would have a problem being approved for adoption.)
That's sad. Gays should never be allowed near children because of the
corrupting influence they exert on the young.
In the long run, if they only have 1 child, then yes, the
overall population is decreased.
Do you have any published statistics to back up that theory, sister?
Studies show no difference in the physical or psychological
development of children raised in heterosexual and homosexual homes.
What studies are those, pray tell?
There are good things in religion. My point is what makes you
so sure that your religion is the One Truth that you are willing to
risk damning those who listen to you by possibly causing them to
convert from the Real Truth to your brand of truth.
That makes no sense. There are no "brands" of truth. There is the
Ultimate Truth that is contained in the Bible. It defines
homosexuality as an "abomination" based in unnatural lusts and "vile
affections."
How are you going to feel on Judgement Day if God asks you why
you led so many people away from His Plan for their life into a life
of lies of self-hatred?
In the unlikely event that such a thing ever happens, I will ask Him
why He appeared to me and told me exactly the opposite.
Lying is a sin. You are lying to yourself.
About what? Sister Lurlean may have exaggerated. I'm not saying that
all homosexuals are promiscuous or that all recruit or that all are
politically subversive. I know the homosexual community is richly
diverse. But what unites them, what makes them who they are, is their
unnatural desire for what the Bible calls "strange flesh." I am >not<
lying. Homosexuality is a spiritually illness that leads to death and
damnation. I am living proof that it can be cured and reversed
completely. I want to share that blessing with others. You too can
be free from the temptation to degrade your body with lesbianism.
So I would suggest you get on your knees and beg His forgiveness for all of
your lies.
What lies? You're not talking to Sister Lurlean here. I have not
lied.
Then stand up in your church and testify that you will not lie to God
any more and if they want to go to Heaven, they had better repent of
their sins and stop lying.
What are they lying about, in your opinion?
If the same God who made me gay
God makes no one gay. The devil tempted you with homosexuality and
you succumbed to that temptation.
then turns around and comdemns
condemns
me for it,
God condemned homosexuality long before you were born, my dear.
then He isn't worth worshiping.
And the devil >is<?
The Greeks and Romans feared the gods,
You obviously know very little about Greek and Roman religion. Which
books on the subject have you studied? Have you seen the film
"Spartacus"? It presents a reliable picture of religion in
pre-Christian Rome and has nothing to do with Christianity. Do you
remember why Socrates was poisoned?
but they very openly condoned same-sex pairings.
At certain times and in certain places, yet exclusively among the
upper classes. Pedophilia was even more common that homosexuality, if
you insist on separating the two kindred perversions.
Not at all.
Well, maybe >you< don't, but lots of others do. >You< brand me a liar
when I tell you only the honest truth.
As I said, I have friends who don't approve of homosexuality. That doesn't
stop our friendship.
I'm not advocating murdering or incarcerating gays and lesbians.
That's why I say I'm not "forcing" my True Christian beliefs on
anyone. I'm merely stating them for the record, and offering
confused, tormented homosexuals freedom from their grievous burden.
What do you do? Use magic to read their minds?
Magic as such is of the devil. We simply observe their behavior and
look for the presence of lying or hypocritical spirits.
Because liars like you
I am no liar.
have made it difficult for gays to be open.
Why should they be open? They want to parade their sins through the
public square only to generate sympathy and acceptance for their
perverse and predatory habits.
People like you preach that being gay is evil.
The Bible condemns homosexual acts.
People like you preach there is an answer. So gays will try to change,
believing your lies that it is possible, if they just try harder or pray
more.
It >is< possible! Who are you to say it's impossible? Thousands of
former homosexuals have been saved from a life of sin and depravity.
Dr. Laura Schlessinger also sponsors an ex-gay program that really
works.
When they are still gay, they believe that they have failed God, which can
lead to depression and even suicide.
They have failed to keep God's commandments if they give in to
homosexual temptations. They have much to fear in the hereafter.
Depression is inevitable in that regard because homosexuality is an
unhealthy condition. It's a profound spiritual illness that kills
the soul. Some call it a cancer of the spirit. Only the devil would
prompt such tormented souls to commit suicide, however. The True
Church offers hope and help for afflicted souls.
Go look in a mirror. Ask yourself if you are comfortable
living with yourself, knowing that your lies could be driving someone
to kill him or herself.
I do not lie. I can look not only at myself but at the many hundreds
of young people I have delivered >from< Satan, >from< depression,
from< misery, >from< jealousy, >from< suicide, >from< depravity,
from< time in prison, >from< venereal disease, and often >from< an
early death from AIDS. None of the young people who've undergone
treatment at our Holy Cleansing Camps has ever attempted suicide
after< returning to their families cleansed and purified. They know
they're free from the devil's temptation to degrade and to destroy
themselves.
Would God want you to drive people to commit a sin that they cannot repent
from?
There is only one such sin, and that is the blasphemy of the Holy
Spirit. All other sins can be forgiven. Homosexual desire can be
completely eradicated.
I haven't been to SF, but I've lived in several large cities
(in the US and also in London). If lesbians are so prone to hang out
in the produce section, why have I never seen them, no matter where I
am?
Perhaps you didn't recognize them as lesbians. I've seen them there a
few times, and I can tell you that to outsiders who don't actually
keep a trained eye on them they look quite innocuous.
"They all want you to sign the gay agenda in
your own blood and to pledge to help them spread evil and corruption
everywhere." On 2004-02-24 19:43:42 PST
(Bard Kesnit) "that we all sign it in either menstrual blood or
semen,"
(Sister Lurlean) "That's true. We got confirmation from the DNA lab
on that one." On 2004-03-29 20:51:28 PST
"Homo's all sign this agenda" On 2003-11-06 20:06:09 PST
Is that enough evidence?
That's hyperbole. I know many sign the agenda in regular ink. My
wife did.
I tried, but she is so far removed from reality that I didn't
do very well.
She is far removed from >your< reality, and rightly so. You've gone
several miles down the crooked road that leads to destruction. Let me
lead you back to the straight and narrow path that leads to salvation,
won't you?
When I came out, yes.
That was the wrong time to do it. What kind of church was this? Did
they assign a licensed exorcist to cast out the demons that possess
your soul? How many cleansings did you undergo? What were the
results?
Not to the extent she does.
People are different.
Is that my fault? She's the one who agreed to marry Thurgood
and have his children. If she can't handle it, she shouldn't have done
it.
She can handle it. It just takes a little adjusting.
Yours in Christ,
Brother Buck LaFever
Camp Straight Arrow
Cleansing Confused Youth Daily
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| User: "Bard Kesnit" |
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| Title: Re: The Lord Jesus Wants to Heal the SICK Today! |
04 Jun 2004 10:23:13 AM |
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On 3 Jun 2004 23:18:44 -0700, (Brother Buck
LaFever) wrote:
Bard Kesnit <vtcheme@hotmail.nospam..com> wrote in message news:<rabub05qfu7cshdg0mejpsuec9cbtv09n4@4ax.com>...
Voices coming out of a bush.
God originally called Moses to preach out of a burning bush, but later
He spoke to the Lawgiver face to face, and without a lot of fanfare.
God speaks to His faithful servants regularly.
You asked for what I would consider proof. That was an example
of proof. Claiming to meet with God when no one has any way to back up
your claim is not proof.
Being carried into Heaven in a chariot.
That was Elijah. Have you forgotten about the "still, small voice"?
Again, you asked for what I would consider proof.
I went to my parents' for my high school reunion. Then my family had a picnic to celebrate the
birthdays of me, my grandfather, my cousin, and my cousin's daughter.
Did you attend church?
Normally I would have. However, the only time my family could
all meet was Sunday afternoon. (The picnic was several hours away and
we wouldn't have been able to go to church and then to the picnic.)
Did you bring your partner along with you?
No, she had no interest in going to my reunion.
I don't know -
I >do< know, my dear. You can rely on me.
I can rely on you - about as far as I can throw you!
but I doubt it is someone who is convinced they are God's conduit to Earth.
Who made that claim specifically?
I wasn't talking about a specific person. (Although Sister
Lurlean said the Hickeys claim they are.) I was speaking in general
terms.
I gave a few examples above.
Those were examples of God speaking to people, not just acknowledging
their existence. Don't they mean different things to you?
Not really. There are millions of people on this planet. The
only way to know FOR SURE that God acknowledges your existence is if
He personally interacts with you. He could leave the day-to-day
details about everyone else to his band of angels. Not to say He
doesn't care about everyone on the planet - just that He is rather
busy and there is no way He can deal with every single person all the
time.
I sincerely fear you're being pulled into the vortex or devil worship
that's recently opened up here.
You are rather funny, you know.
Yes, He has. He led me to the love of my life.
Why did you leave him for that woman then?
I didn't. Steve wasn't the love of my life. Sage is.
He gave me the strength to get through my officer training.
I don't believe that was God. He doesn't approve of gays infiltrating
our military for any purpose.
Have you ever served in the military? Or were you perfectly
content to sit around on your butt and let other people deal with the
problems of the world? It's people like you that annoy the living
daylights out of me. Those who chose not to fight and then put down
those who did. You are not even worthy to kiss the toe of my combat
boots.
Those are just two examples.
But He's also burdened you with afflictions, has He not?
A brain tumor, but that is gone. And I don't think that was
God anyway. If it was, then His purpose wasn't the one you and Sister
Lurlean seem to think it was. Going through the scare of brain surgery
caused me to take a step back and really pay attention to the world
around me. I'm a lot more laid back and have a much better temperament
now than I did before.
What do you think He's trying to tell you about your lesbian appetites?
That He made me this way and approves.
Merrium-Webster
Merrium-Webster? And just who might that be?
Ask Sister Lurlean. She keeps naming that person. <g>
cult: (n) 1. formal religious veneration : WORSHIP
2 : a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of
adherents
That doesn't define a cult as "any" system of religious beliefs and
rituals.
As I said, if you are unable to read and comprehend English,
go back to school until you are capable of independent thought. Or
have you also been so brainwashed that you can no longer think for
yourself?
I suggest that you find a more reliable dictionary.
What, your F.U.C.K.-U book?
By the definition I posted above, no, there are no exceptions.
Obviously, everyone has their own opinions.
I< have the Truth. I'd like to share it with you.
You have a truth that works for you. You aren't the only
person on the planet.
To be honest, I don't consider them cults under definition 3
from M-W (a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious) Other people
may consider them a cult, even under that defintion.
definition... Only unbelievers brand all religions cults.
And Merriam-Webster. But since you are unable to read and
comprehend in English, I wouldn't expect you to realize that.
True cults
have charismatic leaders who deprive their followers of their rights
to free choice.
Like yours...
Our Holy Church is therefore no cult.
Yes, you are. Members are stripped of their possessions "for
the betterment of the church." You are told what to think and what to
do. You are even given a list of people and told "marry one of these
folk."
Prove me wrong. Take your wife and go on a vacation to a place
not sanctioned and run by your church. The beach, Disneyland, Mexico,
somewhere.
Sister Lurlean refused to do it. Maybe you will.
Of course. And they can make a case that they are NOT a cult
by using definition 3. And other people can make a case that they are
a cult under definition 3.
You are terribly confused, aren't you, dear child?
No. Unlike you, I am capable of seeing things from someone
else's point of view. I was pointing out how various people can use
the various definitions of the word "cult" to make it refer to
different things.
What is the difference? She was beaten by her father until she
agreed with everything he said.
As I explained, Sister Lurlean was very occasionally spanked by her
father out of love, when she was very young and needed strong
discipline....
...until she agreed with everything her father said.
By the way, I just discovered that she
is due any day now. Her first midwife was old and miscalculated the
due date. Aren't you happy for her?
I am. Tell her I wish her much luck and as painless a delivery
as possible.
Maybe on some things - like what to fix for dinner. For major
things, she is content to absorb whatever your church leaders preach
without bothering to research anything on her own.
What makes you think she never does any of her own research?
Because she spouts lies. If she had ever bothered to do some
research, she would learn the truth.
When she
and Thurgood lived in the Mission near the gay cruising grounds she
would spend hours sitting by the window observing the abominable
activities that went on across the street from her bedroom.
Oh gee, learn about all gays by hanging out in a gay cruising
area. <sarcasm> Gee, that is SO scientific. <end sarcasm> Sure,
they'll learn about the sexual habits of promiscuous gays. But they
have no basis to correlate those findings to all gays.
"Doesn't that hurt?"
"If sex is a pain in the *****, you are doing it wrong." <g>
She consulted dozens of Christian publications
But no peer-reviewed scientific journals.
You're only
angry because she didn't dismiss the actions of the superpromiscuous
as par for the course.
No, she does assume that the super-promiscuous are par for the
course. That is part of her problem in her perception of gays. I tried
to show her that taking a small, radical subpopulation and saying all
of the overall population are like the small subgroup will lead to
erroneous assumptions, but she never seemed to grasp my point.
No, I have no problem who, for religious reasons, believe
homosexuality is wrong. However, I draw the line at people who
intentionally spread lies about homosexuality with no attempt to find
the truth for themselves.
How can you say Sister Lurlean made no effort to find out the truth?
Because when we tried to point out other places where she
could look for additional information, she just declared those sources
to be "of the devil" and dismissed them.
I lived the homosexual lifestyle for sixteen years. I >know< the
truth.
No, you lived the life of a hooker for 16 years. Do you think
all female prostitutes are just like you and your wife? If not, why
would you assume that the life of a male prostitute would be just like
the life of a committed gay male couple?
Is there only one truth relative to the homosexual experience?
No, but you seem to think there is. I agree that some gay men
sleep around. But you seem to think ALL gays are like that. I'm just
trying to point out that you could have escaped your life of pain IF
you had taken responsibility for yourself. Instead, you "dropped trou"
for anyone who would pay you.
Surely the gay men who sought sexual contacts in the bushes night
after night might look askance at you and condemn you for trying to
"play it straight."
I'm not playing it straight any more.
I used to make bets on how long their mock marriages would last.
Oh, then why do I know gay male couples who have been together
for over 30 years? Maybe because, unlike you, they know what
commitment means...
I lived in an open relationship
And I thought you said you had a "committed relationship" with
him.
When I was gay I truly believed I loved him. Now I realize it was
only lust. That's the truth, Sister "Bard." I have no reason to lie
to you about my past sins.
Obviously, you didn't love him. If you had, you would have
given up the hooking and settled down with him. I gave up all other's
for Sage. Anne gave up all others for her partner. Joe gave up all
others for Scott. George gave up all others for his partner. (Joe,
Scott, and George are friends of mine.) Obviously, it can be done. You
just chose not to do it.
How can that be? The Hickeys rarely spent time watching the nightly
orgies that took place in the bushes last year.
Then where is she getting her false beliefs?
Isn't it possible for
someone to study a topic dispassionately and reach a conclusion
entirely different from your own?
If she had done real research and not that load of stuff that
she did, then yes. I laid out just a few fallacies in her "research"
above.
What about the lesbians who tried to accost her,
What, you mean asking her for help in the grocery store? GAYS
DON'T RECRUIT!
or the ones who attacked her because of her faith?
And what had she been doing before they "attacked" her?
Yelling at them that they are going to hell? <sarcasm> Yeah, that's a
great way to make friends. <end sarcasm>
Yes, but that isn't what you asked.
Isn't it fair to say that homosexuals throw away more of their genetic
material that heterosexuals? In what way is that a good thing?
Most people have siblings, and the genetic material between
siblings is very similar. Their genes will still be passed on through
their nieces and nephews.
Shady past? <chuckle> You have a very biased viewpoint of gay
people because you spent your time living about the lowest rungs - men
on the "down low,"
The "down low"? Is that anything like the lowdown?
I have no idea. Maybe it is called something else out where
you are. Around here, married men who pick up men in bathrooms (or
other random spots) for anonymous sex are said to be on the "down
low."
I was no street hustler.
My mistake, then.
Many of my clients were married men with children.
As I said, men on the "down low."
What gives you that idea?
You had given the impression you were a street hustler.
I have a security clearance, as do a lot of gays I know. You
don't get those with a "shady past."
You also conceal your past,
Uh, no... It wouldn't be hard at all for the government to
find out I'm gay.
and live apart from your partner.
For now. I still hold a security clearance for my new job -
and Sage is moving in with me.
In the long run, if they only have 1 child, then yes, the
overall population is decreased.
Do you have any published statistics to back up that theory, sister?
Do the math and THINK. You'll figure it out.
That makes no sense. There are no "brands" of truth.
Let me rephrase what I said, to try to make it clearer. Every
religion says they are the One True Way. However, that can't be the
case because there are thousands of belief systems. Not all of them
can be the One True Way.
Are willing to risk damning those who listen to you by
possibly causing them to convert from their religion, which really is
the One True Way, to your religion which (in my example) is not.
How are you going to feel on Judgement Day if God asks you why
you led so many people away from His Plan for their life into a life
of lies of self-hatred?
In the unlikely event that such a thing ever happens, I will ask Him
why He appeared to me and told me exactly the opposite.
"Because my enemy appeared to you and caused you to think he
was Me. Do you think I am so petty as to create people and them and
then condemn them for what I did? What kind of God do you think I am?"
I'm not saying that
all homosexuals are promiscuous or that all recruit or that all are
politically subversive.
Thank you. I will back off on those issues, then.
Then stand up in your church and testify that you will not lie to God
any more and if they want to go to Heaven, they had better repent of
their sins and stop lying.
What are they lying about, in your opinion?
When I wrote that, I was under the impression Sister Lurlean
got all of her ideas on homosexuality from the church.
then He isn't worth worshiping.
And the devil >is<?
You are the one worshiping the devil and his lies. Trying to
get people to turn from God's plan for their life into your life of
lies and sin.
The Greeks and Romans feared the gods,
You obviously know very little about Greek and Roman religion. Which
books on the subject have you studied?
Primarily Edith Hamilton's "Mythology." Wouldn't your fear a
god like Zeus?
Do you remember why Socrates was poisoned?
He blasphemed the gods. I never said all Greeks and Romans
feared the gods.
What do you do? Use magic to read their minds?
Magic as such is of the devil.
I was teasing you when I said that.
We simply observe their behavior and
look for the presence of lying or hypocritical spirits.
So you DO use a kind of magic to read their minds.
have made it difficult for gays to be open.
Why should they be open?
Because we are just as normal as you.
People like you preach that being gay is evil.
The Bible condemns homosexual acts.
Not everyone follows the Bible. What give YOU the right to
tell those who don't believe as you do that they are wrong?
People like you preach there is an answer. So gays will try to change,
believing your lies that it is possible, if they just try harder or pray
more.
It >is< possible! Who are you to say it's impossible?
Because, unlike you, I have studies that show it isn't
possible.
When they are still gay, they believe that they have failed God, which can
lead to depression and even suicide.
They have failed to keep God's commandments if they give in to
homosexual temptations.
Forget giving in. I am talking about still feeling sexual
attraction to the same sex.
Depression is inevitable in that regard because homosexuality is an
unhealthy condition.
That's a lie. I'm openly gay and I'm not depressed. It's
people like you who say we SHOULD be depressed. I, and every other
open gay I know, have overcome your lies.
I can look not only at myself but at the many hundreds
of young people I have delivered >from< Satan, >from< depression,
Depression caused by your lie | | | | | | | | |
