Re: The new monkey trial



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "Fredric L. Rice"
Date: 12 Jan 2005 05:36:24 AM
Object: Re: The new monkey trial
On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 11:40:56 GMT, "«Têê¶ññTêê»" <Cool@Texas.com>
wrote:

Well, since both evolution & creationism is nothing but a theory, might as
well give em equal time.

And the Story Theory of human reproduction should also
be given equal time. And Geocentric Theory should be
presented along side of Heliocentric Theory. And Evil
Spirits Theory should be presented along side of Germ
Theory.
Yep!

"Swiss Observer" <dpeck@iprolink.ch> wrote in message
news:ru67u0d3ndd7lvsp7hpb9g6nclotuggr2n@4ax.com...

The New Monkey Trial
By Michelle Goldberg
Salon.com

Monday 10 January 2005

.

User: "Al Klein"

Title: Re: The new monkey trial 13 Jan 2005 12:08:31 AM
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 05:36:24 GMT, frice@skeptictank.orgREMOVE (Fredric
L. Rice) said in alt.atheism:
[piggybacking]

On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 11:40:56 GMT, "«Têê¶ññTêê»" <Cool@Texas.com>
wrote:

Well, since both evolution & creationism is nothing but a theory

1) "Theory" doesn't belong in the same sentence as "nothing but".
Would you call Newton's Laws "nothing but"? (The modern word for
"natural law" is "theory".)
2) Evolution is a fact. There are theories ABOUT evolution - how it
works, mainly - but evolution itself isn't a theory.
3) Creationism is a religious assertion, not a theory, not even an
hypothesis.
--
"To surrender to ignorance and call it God has always been premature, and it remains
premature today."
- Isaac Asimov
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
.
User: "Hector Plasmic"

Title: Re: The new monkey trial 13 Jan 2005 05:32:07 PM

Well, since both evolution & creationism is
nothing but a theory

1) "Theory" doesn't belong in the same sentence
as "nothing but".

Quite true.

Would you call Newton's Laws "nothing but"?

I'd call 'em superceded (by the theory of relativity), but close enough
for government work.

(The modern word for "natural law" is "theory".)

Not true. A "law" is a statement of what happens with an extremely
high confidence -- the laws of thermodynamics, for example. A theory
seeks to explain, to some degree, how these things happen. Or, as
physics teachers might prefer:
Law = description of a regularly occurring relationship
Theory = proposed interpretation or explanation
Often when discussing evolution, folks will say something like
"evolution is both fact and theory." They use the word "fact" here
where they probably should use the word "law."
Hec
http://hectorplasmic.com
.
User: "Al Klein"

Title: Re: The new monkey trial 14 Jan 2005 04:56:59 AM
On 13 Jan 2005 09:32:07 -0800, "Hector Plasmic"
<hec@hectorplasmic.com> said in alt.atheism:

Well, since both evolution & creationism is
nothing but a theory


1) "Theory" doesn't belong in the same sentence
as "nothing but".


Quite true.

Would you call Newton's Laws "nothing but"?


I'd call 'em superceded (by the theory of relativity), but close enough
for government work.

(The modern word for "natural law" is "theory".)


Not true. A "law" is a statement of what happens with an extremely
high confidence -- the laws of thermodynamics, for example. A theory
seeks to explain, to some degree, how these things happen. Or, as
physics teachers might prefer:

Theories are more certain than you claim - i.,e., believed to high
confidence.

Law = description of a regularly occurring relationship
Theory = proposed interpretation or explanation

In this case, your definition of "law" is less certain than you claim.

Often when discussing evolution, folks will say something like
"evolution is both fact and theory." They use the word "fact" here
where they probably should use the word "law."

Nope. What used to be called "natural law" was an attempt at an
explanation of an observation. Which sounds pretty darned close to
the definition of "theory".
--
"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education and social
ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he
had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death."
-Albert Einstein
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
.
User: "Hector Plasmic"

Title: Re: The new monkey trial 14 Jan 2005 03:10:45 PM

nothing but a theory

1) "Theory" doesn't belong in the same sentence
as "nothing but".

Quite true.

Would you call Newton's Laws "nothing but"?

I'd call 'em superceded (by the theory of relativity), but
close enough for government work.

(The modern word for "natural law" is "theory".)

Not true. A "law" is a statement of what happens with
an extremely high confidence -- the laws of
thermodynamics, for example. A theory seeks to
explain, to some degree, how these things happen.
Or, as physics teachers might prefer:

Theories are more certain than you claim - i.,e., believed
to high confidence.

No. Theories can have all sorts of confidence levels, from untested
(but testable) to high confidence (relativity, for instance). But
don't take my word for it, look it up. I did, just to be sure I
presented it correctly.

Law = description of a regularly occurring relationship
Theory = proposed interpretation or explanation

In this case, your definition of "law" is less certain than
you claim.

First, these defintions come from a physics professor, just because I
wanted to be sure I got it exactly right. Second, no, this definition
of "law" does not show less "confidence" than my previous definition
(claim? Get real :-). Note the use of "regularly occurring
relationship." Think it through.

Often when discussing evolution, folks will say something like
"evolution is both fact and theory." They use the word "fact" here
where they probably should use the word "law."

Nope.

Yep. Life changes over time -- that's a "regularly occurring
relationship" which we see in the fossil record and even over a few flu
seasons.

What used to be called "natural law" was an attempt at an
explanation of an observation.

Hey, take it up with Hawking and Davies and Gribbin and physics
teachers worldwide -- note I'm appealing to authorities who are
actually authorities here.
Just trying to help.
Hec
http://hectorplasmic.com
.





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