| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"JG" |
| Date: |
28 Jan 2004 02:56:42 AM |
| Object: |
Re: The Rule of Law. |
"SDR" <sdrodrian@sdrodrian.com> wrote...
"Marvin Edwards" <nospam@nospam.net> wrote...
"SDR" <sdrodrian@sdrodrian.com> wrote...
The rule of law ... is just shorthand
for a civil system under which the
people can expect a fair level of transparency
on which are the laws they
must obey. It doesn't say anything about
the fairness of said laws. Nor even
how they came to be adopted. <
The rule of law means a person allows
the law to take precedence over
his/her own desires or whims in a given matter.
That's a rather provincial overview: The larger view is that "some
power" (whether democratic or not, the people's or some tyrant's)
has superseded the power of the individual (to exact revenge, for
example). Nobody really "allows" such a thing... it has to be
imposed upon him/her cold-bloodedly, mercilessly, no exceptions.
....
That's just your personal spin on it: The fact is that I have no
objections to subjecting myself to all the innane rules I spew out
right/left, as I trust my goodwill & good intentions. Perhaps I
should have said "EVERY additional elucidation in addition to" but--
This is why the rule of law is absolutely
distinct from democracy, which
(as the etymology of the word clearly
points out, as "the people's thing")
is when the people, directly or
through their representatives, rule. <
All -cracy's (democracy, theocracy, plutocracy,
etc) imply some form of
political power to which other's subordinate their will.
That's where you're specifically confused: Democracy is the rule
by the majority, while all the rest are rule by one minority or other:
Not quite, if you also include, for example, anarchy and minarchy.
It is ONLY in democracy that the (most) people subordinate their
will (to that of the majority, or TO THEMSELVES, to their own will).
Even if that were true, it is not necessarily any better. What is so
special about the will of the majority? It was, in fact, the will of the
majority that put the Nazis in power. And if anyone thinks that the
judgment of the American people on ethical or factual matters is any better,
that should consider some of the recent polls that found that 79% of the
population think that "creationism" should be taught in public schools (New
York Times, Mar. 11, 2000), that "Half of all Americans believe everything
in the bible is literally true." (Newark Star Ledger 11/16/00) or that 71%
would make it against the law to show the use of illegal drugs in the
movies, 52% would allow the police to search without court order the homes
of people suspected of selling drugs, even if some homes were searched by
mistake, and 67% would allow police to stop cars at random to search for
drugs (Washington Post/ABC News poll).
This is a very profound distinction!In all the other cases the people's
will is forced to be subordinate to some "undemocratic tyranny" or
other.
Mill put it well a long time ago:
"The majority, or those who succeed in making themselves accepted as the
majority...may desire to oppress a part of their number, and precautions are
as much needed against this as against any other abuse of power....'The
tyranny of the majority' is now generally included among the evils against
which society requires to be on its guard."
--John Stuart Mill, "On Liberty"
....
There's where we part company: You view humanity as a blood-
thirsty mob of cutthroats. I see in them my mother, and all my
family too. I can't imagine them as the brutes you'd like me to
believe they are. No. I trust mankind. ...
That seems pretty naïve to me, considering the basic biological nature of
humans, the atrocities perpetuated by the "majority" throughout history, and
the findings of recent polls. About the best that can be said of democracy
is Churchill's remark that it's the worst form of government except for all
the others. But the point is that it depends on the kind of democracy: The
U.S. was not intended to be a democracy in that sense: The original
constitution did not even provide for popular vote. The founders realized
that the most important features were to guarantee the rights and freedoms
of everyone--not to subject them to the whim of the majority--which is what
has happened.
JA Golczewski, Ph.D.
http://users.rcn.com/jigo/jg.HTM
Updates, free book on health and life-extension
.
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| User: "Jimmy Snibbler" |
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| Title: Re: The Rule of Law. |
28 Jan 2004 07:21:31 AM |
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On 27-Jan-2004, "JG" <nospam@maol.com> wrote:
And if anyone thinks that the
judgment of the American people on ethical or factual matters is any
better, that should consider some of the recent polls that found that 79%
of the
population think that "creationism" should be taught in public schools
(New York Times, Mar. 11, 2000),
Your weak argument reflects your feeble mind. What evidence do you have
that Creationism is not a fact? Hmmmm? Oh, are you one of those mentally
challenged who think that Creationism and Evolutionsim are mutually
exclusive, huh? That's yer problem right there, hoss.
that "Half of all Americans believe everything
in the bible is literally true." (Newark Star Ledger 11/16/00)
Where's your proof that it is not true? The burden is on you, in this
forum.
or that 71%
would make it against the law to show the use of illegal drugs in the
movies, 52% would allow the police to search without court order the homes
of people suspected of selling drugs, even if some homes were searched by
mistake, and 67% would allow police to stop cars at random to search for
drugs (Washington Post/ABC News poll).
Ah, now I see. You are an angry and paranoid drug user, trying to use
vacuous statistics to justify your addiction(s). Thanks for clearing this
up and revealing the main reason you posted this tripe. Pass the bong,
dude.
--
Jimmy Snibbler
.
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| User: "JG" |
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| Title: Re: The Rule of Law. |
28 Jan 2004 08:21:49 AM |
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"Jimmy Snibbler" <me@my.forest> wrote...
On 27-Jan-2004, "JG" <nospam@maol.com> wrote:
And if anyone thinks that the
judgment of the American people on ethical or factual matters is any
better, that should consider some of the recent polls that found that
79%
of the
population think that "creationism" should be taught in public schools
(New York Times, Mar. 11, 2000),
Your weak argument reflects your feeble mind. What evidence do you have
that Creationism is not a fact? Hmmmm? Oh, are you one of those mentally
challenged who think that Creationism and Evolutionsim are mutually
exclusive, huh? That's yer problem right there, hoss.
that "Half of all Americans believe everything
in the bible is literally true." (Newark Star Ledger 11/16/00)
Where's your proof that it is not true? The burden is on you, in this
forum.
or that 71%
would make it against the law to show the use of illegal drugs in the
movies, 52% would allow the police to search without court order the
homes
of people suspected of selling drugs, even if some homes were searched
by
mistake, and 67% would allow police to stop cars at random to search for
drugs (Washington Post/ABC News poll).
Ah, now I see. You are an angry and paranoid drug user, trying to use
vacuous statistics to justify your addiction(s). Thanks for clearing this
up and revealing the main reason you posted this tripe. Pass the bong,
dude.
Thanks for helping to confirm my point!
JA Golczewski, Ph.D.
http://users.rcn.com/jigo/jg.HTM
Updates, free book on health and life-extension
.
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| User: "Usenet Poet of the Year" |
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| Title: Re: The Rule of Law. |
28 Jan 2004 08:42:08 AM |
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Thanks for helping to confirm my point!
I'll admit that this can be nice,
but really, being right is enough.
.
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| User: "Jimmy Snibbler" |
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| Title: Re: The Rule of Law. |
28 Jan 2004 10:44:40 AM |
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On 28-Jan-2004, "Usenet Poet of the Year" <hey@there666.blah> wrote:
Thanks for helping to confirm my point!
I'll admit that this can be nice,
but really, being right is enough.
How interesting. Within an hour of my posting my belief in Creationism,
someone sends a computer virus through usenet that winds up on my machine.
God is Love, Christ lives in my heart, and I'm outta here. Have a good
life.
.
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| User: "Usenet Poet of the Year" |
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| Title: Re: The Rule of Law. |
28 Jan 2004 10:46:38 AM |
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"Jimmy Snibbler" <me@my.forest> wrote in message news:YFRRb.21145$uQ5.2910@twister.socal.rr.com...
On 28-Jan-2004, "Usenet Poet of the Year" <hey@there666.blah> wrote:
Thanks for helping to confirm my point!
I'll admit that this can be nice,
but really, being right is enough.
How interesting. Within an hour of my posting my belief in Creationism,
Did I miss Creation.
Damn.
someone sends a computer virus through usenet that winds up on my machine.
I prefer porn CDs but it's nice to have friends.
God is Love, Christ lives in my heart, and I'm outta here. Have a good
life.
I chicken lives in my heart.
That is why I'm such a West Texas cluck throbber.
Cheers if you are really gone. (poets passing in the pond)
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: The Rule of Law. |
28 Jan 2004 05:41:43 PM |
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On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 16:44:40 GMT, "Jimmy Snibbler" <me@my.forest>
wrote:
:
How interesting. Within an hour of my posting my belief in Creationism,
someone sends a computer virus through usenet that winds up on my machine.
:
God did it.
.
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