On 1 Jan 2004 06:10:28 -0800,

OK, fair enough. But what exactly is it that you dread? Some
Christians claim to have a mandate from God, and claim to be
driven to act on His behalf. Sounds pretty good, right?

Considering the god they claim to have a mandate from, pretty
horrible. Remember, this is the god that orders murder and rape,
kills entire planets, orders rape victims to spend the rest of their
lives married to their rapists ...

If you assert that such claimed mandates are categorically
false, what is the basis for that claim?

Stop shifting the burden. Those who claim that they're true carry the
burden of proving them true. No has the burden of disproving someone
else's assertion.

I really don't get this. For example, what specifically must one
"believe" to attack Christianity?

That christian zeal is very dangerous to non believers, is a basis
for fear, fear leads to hate. Becoming a self righteous bigot is not
an acceptable defense.

"dangerous"? Can this be inverted to apply to Atheists?

Lack of belief ion a god being dangerous? You'd have to present
evidence.

An atheist is not afraid of a god.

Very true since no god is believed to exist.

By you?

By atheists.

What is the basis for your "no god is believed to exist"?

The definition of the word "atheist" - one who doesn't believe in any
gods.

Please justify your assertion. Theophobia or something else?

There is no god, is shorthand for "having seen no evidence of any
god existing, I have no beliefs in any god. And there fore am not "god
fearing".

I very strongly disagree with this. To stretch "having seen no evidence
of any god existing" into "There is no god" is intellectual hubris at
its peak.

That no one has ever presented any objective evidence of the objective
existence any god in the thousands of years, that we know of, of
trying is pretty good evidence that there is none.

I am very wary of believers in god, because I have seen the
resulting hatred that god believers are capable of.

OK, but I'd say the same about Atheists.

Lack of belief isn't a motivator - belief in a bloodthirsty god sure
is, though.

So I don`t fear christian,I detest and am very wary of them. I don`t
fear them enough to hate them. But have no love for them.

But I don't categorically "detest" Atheists or Christians.

We don't categorically detest Christians either. Atheism, qua
atheism, is lack of belief in any gods - nothing more.

So the theophobe is afraid of something
that does not exist.

Or maybe he hates something that he cannot understand.

No some thing he believe is real, and a threat to him and those he
loves.

OK, I can accept that this is the case for you. But back to your
Atheism--what is your basis for your implied constraints on
Theism and Theists (e.g., "no god is believed to exist")?

Asked and answered more than once.

On 1 Jan 2004 06:10:28 -0800,

I very strongly disagree with this. To stretch "having seen no evidence
of any god existing" into "There is no god" is intellectual hubris at
its peak.

If I prefaced each of these then would you understand the very
simple concept , that the existence or non existence is a matter of
belief.

So does I don`t believe there is any god get the concept across to
your feeble mind.

I am very wary of believers in god, because I have seen the
resulting hatred that god believers are capable of.

OK, but I'd say the same about Atheists.

Then I would invite you to offer historical evidence of atheist
killing in the name of atheism.

So I don`t fear christian,I detest and am very wary of them. I don`t
fear them enough to hate them. But have no love for them.

But I don't categorically "detest" Atheists or Christians.

Well you come across as a burner of atheist heretics type.

So the theophobe is afraid of something
that does not exist.

Or maybe he hates something that he cannot understand.

No some thing he believe is real, and a threat to him and those he
loves.

OK, I can accept that this is the case for you. But back to your
Atheism--what is your basis for your implied constraints on
Theism and Theists (e.g., "no god is believed to exist")?

Shawn

The attempts of theist principally christians to force their values
on others. As soon as you reenslave women and get rid of gays, then
you will turn to atheist to rid the earth of.
Stupid bastards should have targeted atheist first.

The North American IRRationalist Society

www.na-rs.org

On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 00:36:47 -0600, William Barwell sat down at his
computer and showed that he had not a clue.

<wbarwell@mungged.mylinuxisp.com> wrote:

I see, you are a troll.
Or the most ignorant and self important ***** on the net, and there is
a lot of competition for that title.

Speaking of yourself?

Nobody here hates god for the same reason we don't hate Captain Hook,
or Sideshow Bob.

And who claimed any hate for god?

Its silly to hate non-existant characters who are also silly.
Even if as characters, they are rather unpleasant.
All the gods of humanity are likewise, silly non-existant phantoms.
Of no more importance to Atheists than Saturday morning kids' TV cartoon
villians.
And the god of the OT most certainly resembles a TV cartoon
villian more than anything else.
Savage, stupid, goofy and not very rational. Not much of a god.
The billy goat herder priests that made this god up weren't very
imginative.

Who claimed any hatred for God?

Hating the effects of stupid humans who will not think, use logic, or be
rational is simply unavoidable. Especially when it becomes a chronic
habit. People who insist Atheists must think about god like religous fools
think about non-existant Satan, and can't be educated out of that bizarre
and wrong notion simple are the sort of morons that cause people to
dislike your stubborn incapability of thinking rationally without becoming
emotionally attached to a stupid error.

We do rather hate militant irrationality and inability to intellectually
handle any thought above a simple third grader level.

Cheerful Charlie

Don`t sound very cheerful to me.

On 1 Jan 2004 05:44:23 -0800,

This is strange. Do you really think my life experience with Atheists
is limited to this newsgroup?

It's evidently limited to atheists who have been attacked by
Christians.

Theism isn't important enough to an atheist for him to
discuss the issue unless a theist raises it. Do you go around
attacking the Easter Beagle?

If
I walked into a church, elbowed the preacher out of the way, and started
refuting their doctrines, how do you think I would be received?

They would probably hate you, too.

But if they hated atheism for his action, it would mark them as being
ignorant.

(Got to believe it's real
to be afraid of it.)

I really don't get this. For example, what specifically must one
"believe" to attack Christianity?

Can't you read? You'd have to believe a god was real in order to be afraid
of that god.

OK, got it. But I think your statement, as stated is narrow to the
point of being unuseful.

The bottom line is that atheists don't hate or fear any god - which is
the whole point.

In either case, there is no god.

Please justify your assertion. Theophobia or something else?

Logic, science, the unsuccessful search for evidence that a god is.

Please show me the logic.

No objective evidence of the objective existence of any god. That's
all that's needed to not accept the assertion that one exists.

I don't see how science is relevant. Science is useful in building
behavioral models. It is limited by the wielder's perceptions
and reasoning abilities. Indeed, as far as I know, no one has ever
presented a portable, synthetic proof of anything. Your definitive
"there is no god" implies an underlying synthetic proof.

No, it just states, not implies, that there's never been any objective
evidence of the objective existence of any god. And, barring that,
the default position on any claim, especially an extraordinary one, is
"no".

Just as a point of clarification, I do suspect that Atheists generally
do have hate at the core of their views toward religion.

Why would I, never having been Christian, hate Christianity?

(BTW, the only time atheist or atheism are capitalized is at the
beginning of a sentence.)

For those Atheists that assert "there is no god", this conflict should be simple to
resolve--just ask them to justify their assertion.

Atheism, qua atheism, doesn't make that claim. Some atheists do, but
that's not part of atheism.