Religions > Atheism > Re: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS GOD [ OK ... WELL I WANT YOU TO PROVE IT]
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Paul Erickson" |
| Date: |
07 Sep 2003 06:59:21 AM |
| Object: |
Re: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS GOD [ OK ... WELL I WANT YOU TO PROVE IT] |
On Thu, 29 May 2003 03:28:15 GMT, "Figinn"
<ihatespam-Figinn@verizon.net> wrote:
"GlennGlenn" <dipthotdipthot@yahoo.yahoo.com.com> wrote in message
news:280520031836435834%dipthotdipthot@yahoo.yahoo.com.com...
It's called a position of doubt.
That would make you an agnostic, not an atheist.
Figinn
I know how very late I am, but:
Oh, great, someone else to tell me what atheism is!
Slobbering Skeleton
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| User: "mich" |
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| Title: Re: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS GOD [ OK ... WELL I WANT YOU TO PROVE IT] |
10 Sep 2003 08:04:19 PM |
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This is mearly a reasoning for the existance of God and in no way does it
imply to be the teachings of the Catholic Church.
Nevertheless, if the notion of God is possible, than anything else is:
I am conscious of my environment; this makes me alive,so we believe.
Was I unsconcious prior to my birth? Will I be unconscious after I die?
I do not know this for certain. What is consciousness to begin with? Is it
electro-chemical neural activities within the brain? An amoeba has
consciousness since it can react to it's environment in order to protect
itself; in fact, non-living substance may very well have a form of very
primitive consciousness that we have not been able to detect yet. Therefore,
if I have a form of conciousness now, it may very well be that I once had a
consciousness prior to this life and will receive consciousness some time
after I die, in a different identity, but still a form of consciousness. In
fact, the same consciousness may very well be implanted into all forms of
life...even non-living material, so that my "identity", this cousciousness
separating me apart from all other forms of consciousness, may very well be
the same consciousness experiencing different levels of consciousness. This
definition of consciousness is very close to the definition of mass/energy,
that is, a correlation between the two; that is consciousness embeded in all
forms of matter.This could be interpreted as the Universe, Universal
Consciousness/Mind, God , Spirit, ect...
If my inner-self , my personal conscious identity, is mearly the same
"Consciousness" experiencing different levels of conciousness, within
myself, as to the rest of the universe, then why would this "Mind" be
interested in experiencing the most
primitive forms of conciousness? The answer could be "to know itself to the
fullnes of what it is".
Of course, this is not a proof of God's existance, simply a form of
reasoning leading to such a notion, not unlike the Greeks
who reasoned out from very simple notions, what came to be known later as
scientific theories ie: the atomic theory. In fact, this theory as such, has
not been proven and might be wrong.Nevertheless, the atomic theory is a
reasonable theory and is worthy
of belief.
Andre
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| User: "Crazyalec" |
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| Title: Re: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS GOD [ OK ... WELL I WANT YOU TO PROVE IT] |
11 Sep 2003 07:27:47 PM |
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"mich" <mich@efni.com> wrote in message
news:vlvifjk1k9vb3@corp.supernews.com...
This is mearly a reasoning for the existance of God and in no way does it
imply to be the teachings of the Catholic Church.
Nevertheless, if the notion of God is possible, than anything else is:
Like Vatican. A country exist solely on an idea of god
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| User: "Woden" |
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| Title: Re: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS GOD [ OK ... WELL I WANT YOU TO PROVE IT] |
10 Sep 2003 08:19:50 PM |
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"mich" <mich@efni.com> wrote in news:vlvifjk1k9vb3@corp.supernews.com:
This is mearly a reasoning for the existance of God and in no way does
it imply to be the teachings of the Catholic Church.
(snip)
....Greeks
who reasoned out from very simple notions, what came to be known later
as scientific theories ie: the atomic theory. In fact, this theory as
such, has not been proven and might be wrong.Nevertheless, the atomic
theory is a reasonable theory and is worthy
of belief.
Now perhaps you could expound on the modern scientific basis (facts, data,
experiments, observations,...) for the "atomic theory" (or more correctly
quantum mechanics) as compared to any modern scientific observations, data,
facts, experiments which support your god hypothesis?
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political institution for the control of
people's thoughts, lives, and actions; based on
ancient myths and superstitions perpetrated through
generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
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| User: "Mark Richardson" |
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| Title: Re: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS GOD [ OK ... WELL I WANT YOU TO PROVE IT] |
10 Sep 2003 09:08:19 PM |
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On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 21:04:19 -0400, "mich" <mich@efni.com> wrote:
This is mearly a reasoning for the existance of God and in no way does it
imply to be the teachings of the Catholic Church.
Nevertheless, if the notion of God is possible, than anything else is:
I am conscious of my environment; this makes me alive,so we believe.
Was I unsconcious prior to my birth? Will I be unconscious after I die?
I do not know this for certain.
No reason to believe so.
<snip - more of same>
Do you believe everything becasue it *may be possible* - or do you
only believe those things which you have a reason to believe?
I am only interested in believing in that tiny subset of the
"possible" - the actual.
So I do not believe in God or ghosts or pixies or astrology or ....
Unless and until I have a reason to believe they are actual things.
No one has ever given me a reason to believe - so I dont.
How difficult to understand is that?
Mark.
--
Mark Richardson mDOTrichardsonATutasDOTeduDOTau
Member of S.M.A.S.H.
(Sarcastic Middle aged Atheists with a Sense of Humour)
-----------------------------------------------------
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| User: "mich" |
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| Title: Re: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS GOD [ OK ... WELL I WANT YOU TO PROVE IT] |
11 Sep 2003 03:51:18 PM |
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"Mark Richardson" <mark.richardson@die.spammers.die> wrote in message
news:uvlvlv872dj0m0bfj02h1vdlomhae6vt2p@4ax.com...
On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 21:04:19 -0400, "mich" <mich@efni.com> wrote:
I am conscious of my environment; this makes me alive,so we believe.
Was I unsconcious prior to my birth? Will I be unconscious after I die?
I do not know this for certain.
No reason to believe so.
And no reason to believe otherwise. One thing we know for certain is that
consciousness exist, since I can experience it.
Again I stress that consciousness, at this point, isn't an identity; I'm
mearly saying, the fact that I am conscious,( not that I have the capacity
to think simply an awareness of my environment) right now, makes me question
whether this consciousness within me, at this moment,
existed prior to when I was born, and will continue afterwards. If your
saying, because we have no means to prove it, whether it is true or not ,
the issue is meaningless. While this might be true, it nevertheless doesn't
disprove the possibility of it being possible. So why ponder on such a view?
Simply, because it might be true; we are a curious animal; even you must be
interested in the question of God
( I'm not saying that you would like to believe), since you are replying to
this ng. It's natural; no need to be ashamed of this.
You seem to be as much immersed into the "non-existance" of God as the
believers are towards the belief of a God.
Do you believe everything becasue it *may be possible* - or do you
only believe those things which you have a reason to believe?
I believe in the "possibility" of "anything" that can be possible, yes; and
I do believe in the "possibility" that God is non-existant, because it "is"
possible. But, which do I choose to follow, is another question. I have seen
people I loved dearly having died. I would love for this relationship to
continue;
therefore, out of love for them, as well as for the rest of the people I
love, I "choose" to believe in the best possible outcome. I may be wrong,
and if I am wrong, true,my faith is nothing but a waist of time...but so is
all the scientific, philosophic and whatever type of knowledge that we may
possess,since after one dies all becomes nothingness.
I am only interested in believing in that tiny subset of the
"possible" - the actual.
But Quantum mechanic doesn't deal with the actual. Some theories which come
out of QM can never be proven ie: parallel universes. I believe that those
theories our worthy of acceptance, since according to some experimental
analysis, it is a possibility. From this comes forth interesting science
fiction novels which entertains as well as "making us believe in the
possibility of it being one day attainable".
So I do not believe in God or ghosts or pixies or astrology or ....
Unless and until I have a reason to believe they are actual things.
No one has ever given me a reason to believe - so I dont.
You have a very reasonable explanation as to why you don't believe...but
that doesn't imply those who believe to be illogical.
How difficult to understand is that?
I have absolutely "no" problem with your agnosticsm. I simply do not share
it.
Mark.
Andre
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