| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
13 Aug 2006 10:44:17 AM |
| Object: |
Re: Thomas Jefferson, Hypocrite |
"Fool For Christ" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote:
:|buckeye-elo@nospam.net wrote:
:|> "Fool For Christ" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote:
:|>
:|> >:|
:|> >:|Look it up in any encyclopedia or online.
:|>
:|> You brought it up, the burden of proof rests with you.
:|
:|http://memory.loc.gov/master/mss/mtj/mtj7/059/0400/0463.jpg
:|
:|The 1904 edition's introduction makes it quite clear. The above link
:|is to a Library of Congress picture of that 1904 book's page where the
:|author says the original text contained the words...
:|
:|"Philadelphia
:|Published by Jacob Johnson and Co
:|No. 147 High Street
:|1804"
:|
:|I await concession and apology by yourself and others.
That was a Bible stupid, not the "Jefferson Bible."
The "Jefferson Bible" as I have pointed was compiled between 1816 and 1820.
Was unknown to even exist by anyone other than Thomas Jefferson and whoever
bound it for him until it was found in his library after his death.
You really should learn to read, learn to comprehend what you read and how
to do research.
But I love how you goofed on this picking something that backfired so
completely on you showing once again how ignorant you are with regards to
history
I expect you will do your usual slink off into the darkness and not utter
another peep on this topic
***************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads [Virginia] SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members, there are members from
all over the US and a couple from overseas as well]
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
USAF LT. COL (Ret) Buffman (Glen P. Goffin) wrote
"You pilot always into an unknown future;
facts are your only clue. Get the facts!"
That philosophy 'snipit' helped to get me, and my crew, through a good
many combat missions and far too many scary, inflight, emergencies.
It has also played a significant role in helping me to expose the
plethora of radical Christian propaganda and lies that we find at
almost every media turn.
*****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
.
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Thomas Jefferson, Hypocrite |
15 Aug 2006 10:20:32 AM |
|
|
wrote:
"Fool For Christ" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote:
:| wrote:
:|> "Fool For Christ" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote:
:|>
:|> >:|
:|> >:|Look it up in any encyclopedia or online.
:|>
:|> You brought it up, the burden of proof rests with you.
:|
:|http://memory.loc.gov/master/mss/mtj/mtj7/059/0400/0463.jpg
:|
:|The 1904 edition's introduction makes it quite clear. The above link
:|is to a Library of Congress picture of that 1904 book's page where the
:|author says the original text contained the words...
:|
:|"Philadelphia
:|Published by Jacob Johnson and Co
:|No. 147 High Street
:|1804"
:|
:|I await concession and apology by yourself and others.
That was a Bible stupid, not the "Jefferson Bible."
The "Jefferson Bible" as I have pointed was compiled between 1816 and 1820.
Was unknown to even exist by anyone other than Thomas Jefferson and whoever
bound it for him until it was found in his library after his death.
Clifton is more accurate than you acknowledge. You have mangled his
claim, as is your custom.
Mr. Clifton never claimed that the "Jefferson Bible" was published in
1804.
Read Clifton's original claim again: "Jefferson published a book, while
serving as President. It was called The Philosophy of Jesus of
Nazareth."
The fact is that Jefferson did IN FACT put his "Philosophy" together
between February and March of 1804, in the White House. It was a
compilation of Jesus' sayings cut out from two bibles he ordered from
Philadelphia.
His purpose for putting this book together as President, in Jefferson
words was: "for the use of the Indians, unembarrassed with matters of
fact or faith beyond the level of their comprehensions"
If you know a little about the early 19th century, you know that men
like Washington and Jefferson were keenly interested in "civilizing"
the Indians. This was INDEED a government endeavor.
To wit, George Washington wrote to the Indians:
"You do well to wish to learn our arts and our ways of life, and above
all, the religion of Jesus Christ. Congress will do everything they can
to assist you in this wise intention."
SOURCE: George Washington to Delaware Indian Chiefs, May 12, 1779, in
John C. Fitzpatrick, editor, The Writings of George Washington, Vol. XV
(Washington: U.S. Government Printing Office, 1932), p. 55.
(by the way, Buckeye Jim Allison is on record declaring the above a
BOGUS quote;
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.democrats.d/msg/cd0615bcc561506f
Jim frequently demonstrates his buffoonery in this fashion)
Hence, the fact that Jefferson put this religious book together in 1804
as President for the purpose of civilizing the Indians was, in fact,
something Jefferson conceived as an official endeavor.
Secondly, Jefferson IN FACT did send this forty-six page biblical
extract to a publisher in 1804 (a receipt is extant). It appears,
however, that Jefferson only paid for the publication of one volume.
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Thomas Jefferson, Hypocrite |
19 Aug 2006 04:36:37 AM |
|
|
wrote:
Nothing of any importance
My my I thought you might find this interesting. Even maybe make some
comments about it. The giuy that posted this is a ***** too and I
thought it would be so much fun watching you two go at each other but guess
it is soo complicated for you
From:
Newsgroups:
alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.education,alt.atheism,alt.religion.christian,alt.politics.bush,alt.society.liberalism,us.talk.constitution
Subject: Jefferson's Dr Woods found? Someone thinks so.
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 12:11:36 -0400
[\From another messge forum]
August 13, 2006, 12:54 PM #3665617 / #88
car9235
New User
Join Date: August 2006
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 49
I think I can clear up the mystery of who Dr. Woods was. There was a
Baptist minister named William Woods who preached on occasion in
Charlottesville. Jefferson thought that Woods, also known as "Baptist
Billy," would be more useful as politician than a minister. The problem was
that, at the time, licensed ministers were prohibited from running for
public office in Virginia. Jefferson allegedly talked Woods into
surrendering his minister's credentials in order to run for office. Woods
did run for and win a seat in the Virginia Assembly, so this story has
credibility. My guess is that the questionable quote is real and comes from
a letter to this Dr. Woods, although I haven't been able to find proof of
this yet.
The only other Woods that I know of who Jefferson corresponded with was a
grocer in Baltimore who supplied food to the White House and made a
miniature replica of the famous mammoth chesse.
Chris
http://www.liarsforjesus.com
Old August 14, 2006, 02:50 PM #3668131 / #97
car9235
New User
Join Date: August 2006
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by jim alison View Post
I went back and checked #22 and #23. I had forgotten I had even posted any
of the past research done on this here.
As you see as you look through there Mike Curtis did in facr find referene
to a Dr Wood. but nothing regarding the quote in question
I thought I recalled he had located a Wood, Woods or Dr Wood or Woods.
End Quote
I think that most letters quoted in the past by legitimate historians that
can't be found now were probably in private collections at the time they
were quoted. Many of these are likely to be lost forever because they were
probably not preserved like those in the hands of libraries and archives,
and just about anything could have happened to them.
The reason I think the Woods letter may still exist, however, and why I
think this Woods may be "Baptist Billy," is because of a lie told by Mark
Beliles in the introduction to his edition of the Jefferson Bible. In order
to construct this particular lie, Beliles must have known the story of
Jefferson talking this minister into surrendering his minister's
credentials so he could run for office. But, all Beliles gives as a source
for the lie that he based on this, (a lie in which William Woods is
mentioned by name), is his "own unpublished research." You know as well as
I do that when a liar for Jesus gives a vague, unverifiable source like
this they usually do have some real document that they're twisting to
create their lie, but they don't want anyone to know exactly what that
document is. This Woods letter may have been in a private collection that
Beliles knew of in 1983 when he published his Jefferson Bible, and these
religious right people have been known to buy documents that they don't
want others to be able to access. I debunk Beliles's lie in my book in
another way, but I have no way to find out or prove that this letter, if it
does in fact exist, was what he based this lie on.
Chris
http://www.liarsforjesus.com
***************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads [Virginia] SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members, there are members from
all over the US and a couple from overseas as well]
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
USAF LT. COL (Ret) Buffman (Glen P. Goffin) wrote
"You pilot always into an unknown future;
facts are your only clue. Get the facts!"
That philosophy 'snipit' helped to get me, and my crew, through a good
many combat missions and far too many scary, inflight, emergencies.
It has also played a significant role in helping me to expose the
plethora of radical Christian propaganda and lies that we find at
almost every media turn.
*****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
.
|
|
|
| User: "cartman" |
|
| Title: Re: Thomas Jefferson, Hypocrite |
20 Aug 2006 06:38:59 PM |
|
|
wrote:
ambrosesearle@yahoo.com wrote:
Nothing of any importance
My my I thought you might find this interesting. Even maybe make some
comments about it. The giuy that posted this is a ***** too
The "guy" who posted what you wrote below is a gal: Chris Rodda is a
she.
I won't dispute the fact that she is an "*****." She certainly echoes
just about everything you have ever said.
and I
thought it would be so much fun watching you two go at each other
Why would I "go at" her. She hasn't proven that Jefferson wrote that he
found no redeeming feature in orthodox Christianity, as YOU claimed he
did. She said she heard of William Woods who was a Baptist minister
with whom Jefferson was acquainted. No duh.
I will stake everything on the fact that she will not find a quote in
Jefferson's hand about "orthodox Christianity" as you previously
claimed legitimate.
I will say this, however. Her conspiracy theory about Mark Beliles
"buying" the Dr. Woods letter in order to hide it from the world is
quite telling about the kind of person this Chris Rodda is. I imagine
she's also a big fan of the legitimacy of the "Davinci Code" too. Heck,
I wouldn't be surprised if she doesn't believe the claim of "National
Treasure" and that all of King Solomon's gold is hiding under a church
in Manhattan.
From:
Newsgroups:
alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.education,alt.=
atheism,alt.religion.christian,alt.politics.bush,alt.society.liberalism,us.=
talk.constitution
Subject: Jefferson's Dr Woods found? Someone thinks so.
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 12:11:36 -0400
[\From another messge forum]
August 13, 2006, 12:54 PM #3665617 / #88
car9235
New User
Join Date: August 2006
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 49
I think I can clear up the mystery of who Dr. Woods was. There was a
Baptist minister named William Woods who preached on occasion in
Charlottesville. Jefferson thought that Woods, also known as "Baptist
Billy," would be more useful as politician than a minister. The problem w=
as
that, at the time, licensed ministers were prohibited from running for
public office in Virginia. Jefferson allegedly talked Woods into
surrendering his minister's credentials in order to run for office. Woods
did run for and win a seat in the Virginia Assembly, so this story has
credibility. My guess is that the questionable quote is real and comes fr=
om
a letter to this Dr. Woods, although I haven't been able to find proof of
this yet.
The only other Woods that I know of who Jefferson corresponded with was a
grocer in Baltimore who supplied food to the White House and made a
miniature replica of the famous mammoth chesse.
Chris
http://www.liarsforjesus.com
Old August 14, 2006, 02:50 PM #3668131 / #97
car9235
New User
Join Date: August 2006
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by jim alison View Post
I went back and checked #22 and #23. I had forgotten I had even posted any
of the past research done on this here.
As you see as you look through there Mike Curtis did in facr find referene
to a Dr Wood. but nothing regarding the quote in question
I thought I recalled he had located a Wood, Woods or Dr Wood or Woods.
End Quote
I think that most letters quoted in the past by legitimate historians that
can't be found now were probably in private collections at the time they
were quoted. Many of these are likely to be lost forever because they were
probably not preserved like those in the hands of libraries and archives,
and just about anything could have happened to them.
The reason I think the Woods letter may still exist, however, and why I
think this Woods may be "Baptist Billy," is because of a lie told by Mark
Beliles in the introduction to his edition of the Jefferson Bible. In ord=
er
to construct this particular lie, Beliles must have known the story of
Jefferson talking this minister into surrendering his minister's
credentials so he could run for office. But, all Beliles gives as a source
for the lie that he based on this, (a lie in which William Woods is
mentioned by name), is his "own unpublished research." You know as well as
I do that when a liar for Jesus gives a vague, unverifiable source like
this they usually do have some real document that they're twisting to
create their lie, but they don't want anyone to know exactly what that
document is. This Woods letter may have been in a private collection that
Beliles knew of in 1983 when he published his Jefferson Bible, and these
religious right people have been known to buy documents that they don't
want others to be able to access. I debunk Beliles's lie in my book in
another way, but I have no way to find out or prove that this letter, if =
it
does in fact exist, was what he based this lie on.
Chris
http://www.liarsforjesus.com
***************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS =B7 Hampton Roads [Virginia] SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members, there are members from
all over the US and a couple from overseas as well]
***************************************************************
. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why =
"a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisne=
r,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
. . .
****************************************************************
USAF LT. COL (Ret) Buffman (Glen P. Goffin) wrote
"You pilot always into an unknown future;
facts are your only clue. Get the facts!"
That philosophy 'snipit' helped to get me, and my crew, through a good
many combat missions and far too many scary, inflight, emergencies.
It has also played a significant role in helping me to expose the
plethora of radical Christian propaganda and lies that we find at
almost every media turn.
*****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
.
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