Re: To the atheists in this forum

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Topic:	Religions > Atheism
User:	""
Date:	09 May 2006 11:26:41 PM
Object:	Re: To the atheists in this forum

Daniel wrote:

<jeeeezuzchrust@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1147168459.804007.38720@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Here is an analogy:

If you're a man and you need to go to the bathroom, do you go into the
bathroom marked "men" or "women"? And the same if you are a woman.

That's not an analogy. You are in an unmoderated Usenet group. The
analogy is more like this: Do you urinate in a bathroom, or in the
middle of the street?

Uhm, yes... it IS an analogy because I am using 1 example as a model to
represent a current situation.

But you mis-stated the situation. If I say something refreshing is
"like a drink of cool water", that's an analogy. If I say something
refresing is "like a canary", it's just nonsense.

But I know you really DO understand the
point I'm making and continue to purposely be ignorant to try and ***** me
off... I notice you atheists and satanists do that on purpose in here to
harrass christians.

Very little things in the world don't "harass" christians. All you
crazies with your martyr complexes.."help! I'm being persecuted!" Yeah,
right. A church on every street corner, and YOU are the ones being
mistreated? Good thing it's not painful to be that stupid.

If this is 'Usenet' like you say it is (which it is), then why are there SO
MANY newsgroups with SPECIFIC titles to them.

Oh, good grief. You still haven't learned what it is or how it works,
have you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet

Just like if I said, why can't I as a man go to the woman's bathroom if I'm
in a public place?

Just like I said, you're using the wrong example. Do try to keep up
next time, OK?

You're trying to use and abuse the Usenet purpose.
If indeed you're trying to create 'rights' for yourself and using Usenet as
your excuse, and if you were right (which you're not), then every title of
every newsgroup would say simply "Usenet" and not "alt.fan.jesus-christ",
"alt.I.love.cars" etc. etc. etc...

And all of this is simply because you say so? Another self-righteous
christian frothing at the mouth with nonsense & lies? Don't make me
laugh. People like you are why christianity is dying out everywhere but
the US. You're a parody of yourself. Good thing American schools suck,
or the same thing would be happening here. Christianity only thrives
when people are stupid.

In other words, just because this is Usenet, does not mean you have rights
to come into ONE of the Usenet newsgroups specifically titled
"alt.fan.jesus-christ" to harrass, slander and discriminate against those
who DESERVE to be apart of this forum.

Stupid people should be harassed, slandered and discriminated against.
You're an embarassment to your race (I'm assuming you're human) and to
your country.

So, if you're atheist (and lost, which is no surprise because to be
'atheist' usually means to be 'lost'), then please find your own proper
and titled forum for atheism.

Eat me. You're the one who's peeing in public. Not my fault when people
point & stare.

But keep making an ***** of yourself (keep going, you're doing just fine), and
you might find out that you're actually peeing on yourself...

Just drop the analogies, eh? You're not very good at them.

Onward, Christian Soldier! Go get `em! You're my heeee-ro.

Well what can I say? Good job, atleast I can now give you credit for
recognizing the truth here.

A christian wouldn't know truth if it crashed into them on the highway.

So please go to your own forum where you'll get the kind of support
from other atheists instead of posting garbage.

Garbage? Your holy tome is garbage. Your savior never existed. It's not
my fault you can't handle it.

It's not me who can't handle the belief in God... it's you and every other
atheist out there.

I don't have to prove anything to you, because this will be proven FOR you
and TO you on judgement day.

Judgement day doesn't exist either, dude.

Just because you're atheist now, doesn't exclude you from the rest of the
world who will be judged by God on that day.

Always with the threats, you christians. That seems to be your last
resort when confronted with the bankruptcy of your sadistic little
myth. "Oh yeah? Well, god's gonna GET YOU!!!!" I suppose it can't be
helped, since you people aren't very bright.

And if you're going to wait THAT long to get your proof that God exists
before you can believe in God, then you made your own bed, not me.

Oh, shut up. Empty threats from an empty head. You're going to waste
your entire life on this religion thing, and never realize you were
wrong.

So as you see, it's *you* who can't handle it.

*****. If you were truly secure in your "faith", you'd have no
problem with the atheists. But you have doubts. And the fact that
atheists exist give those doubts strength. So you wail away in hatred,
attempting to cling to your tattered faith. You're Peter Pan on acid,
screaming "I do believe in fairies!" and hoping Tinkerbell will rise.
What a sad excuse for humanity christians are. You'd be the most
pathetic people on earth if the stupid muslims weren't here.
C-Ya,
JEEEEZZZZZZU
.

User: "Chris Johnson"
Title: Re: To the atheists in this forum	09 May 2006 11:58:10 PM

wrote:

Daniel wrote:

Daniel! I've missed him. Last time I saw him, he was raving about
getting spammed by atheists.
I see he hasn't learned manners in the meantime.
*snip*
.

User: "Daniel"
Title: Re: To the atheists in this forum	10 May 2006 08:25:18 AM

"Chris Johnson" <effigies@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1147237090.547312.284890@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...

jeeeezuzchrust@hotmail.com wrote:

Daniel wrote:

Daniel! I've missed him. Last time I saw him, he was raving about
getting spammed by atheists.

I see he hasn't learned manners in the meantime.

*snip*

Chris, please don't dictate 'manners' to me.
Atheists and satanists are the ones coming into a christian newsgroup and
pushing on their own beliefs onto us...
besides, a true atheist would not even want to recognize this newsgroup,
because to them, God does not exist!
And if to them, God does not exist, neither should this newsgroup!
.

User: "Doc Smartass"
Title: Re: To the atheists in this forum	10 May 2006 07:48:33 PM

"Daniel" <merlinniagara@yahoo.ca> wrote in
news:2Rl8g.72822$fd.28541@read2.cgocable.net:

"Chris Johnson" <effigies@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1147237090.547312.284890@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...

jeeeezuzchrust@hotmail.com wrote:

Daniel wrote:

Daniel! I've missed him. Last time I saw him, he was raving about
getting spammed by atheists.

I see he hasn't learned manners in the meantime.

*snip*

Chris, please don't dictate 'manners' to me.

Atheists and satanists are the ones coming into a christian newsgroup
and pushing on their own beliefs onto us...

besides, a true atheist would not even want to recognize this
newsgroup, because to them, God does not exist!
And if to them, God does not exist, neither should this newsgroup!

I'm breathing just to ***** you off.
--
Doc Smartass
Try New "Religion Pockets!" Flaky crust with a tasty ***** center!
.

User: "Robibnikoff"
Title: Re: To the atheists in this forum	10 May 2006 11:17:22 AM

"Daniel" <merlinniagara@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
snip

Atheists and satanists are the ones coming into a christian newsgroup and
pushing on their own beliefs onto us...

Really? Prove it.

besides, a true atheist would not even want to recognize this newsgroup,
because to them, God does not exist!

How would you know what a "true atheist" would do? Stick to Jeebus, you
little *****.

And if to them, God does not exist, neither should this newsgroup!

Wow, you are quite the moron.
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
Atheist ***** Extraordinaire
#1557
.

User: "wbarwell"
Title: Re: To the atheists in this forum	10 May 2006 01:43:54 PM

Daniel wrote:

"Chris Johnson" <effigies@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1147237090.547312.284890@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...

jeeeezuzchrust@hotmail.com wrote:

Daniel wrote:

Daniel! I've missed him. Last time I saw him, he was raving about
getting spammed by atheists.

I see he hasn't learned manners in the meantime.

*snip*

Chris, please don't dictate 'manners' to me.

Spamming in AA is bad manners.
You are an idiot.
IS THERE A GOD?
Strong Atheism's answer.
A BASIC DEFINITION OF GOD.
The general overarching definition of god as per
the major religions of the world is:
A. God is personal, God has will and consciousness.
B. God has free will.
C. God is the creator of all.
D. God is omnipotent.
E. God is omnibenevolent.
F. God is omniscient.
G. God is that which nothing more powerful
can be imagined.
These are the basic attributes that can be claimed
for the god of orthodox Judaism, Christianity,
Islam, and Hinduism.
Omnibenevolence and omniscience are actually
logically derivable from the claimed attribute of
omnipotence and so aren't not truly independent
attributes, and may be considered special aspects
of omnipotence.
There are other attributes of god, that he is the
only such god, that he is is immortal and that
god has always existed that are not important
for this discussion and for now, can be ignored.
They are secondary arguments and are for the most
part not foundational or truly necessary, except
those that can be logically derived from the
attributes listed above.
A CLASS OF GODS
It is important to note here that this is a
definition not for a particular god, but an
entire class of gods.
Sub-theories about god are not important here.
Christianity claims one may attain salvation
only through Jesus, Islam claims the Christian
dogma that Jesus was the son of god is
blasphemous.
Ideas like this though, are of little importance
to the overarching and general claims made for a
personal, creator, omni-everything god. I have
coined a term, The Grand God of Grand Theologies
for this sort of god, this sort of theological
system of expansive claims for god.
Grand theologies are those theologies that have
adopted this class of god as their basic
attributes concerning the nature of god. But it
is important to remember here that what is being
discussed here is a class of gods, not particular
gods or specific gods.
THE FOUR GREAT THEOLOGICAL TRADITIONS
Again, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism hold
to this basic Grand God and are typical Grand
Theologies holding to this basic class of god as
their basic definitions of what god is at god's
most basic level.
A big problem with this class of gods is, it
collapses rather easily into internal self-
contradiction.
THE PROBLEM OF EVIL.
The problem of evil was first written down by
Epicurus in about the third century BCE.
Today's formulation is:
A. God is defined as omnipotent;
B. and as omnibenevolent.
C. Evil exists.
D. God therefore, is not omnipotent as claimed.
E. Or God is not omnibenevolent as claimed.
F. Or god is neither omnipotent or
omnibenevolent.
G. Or god is not existant.
THE FREE WILL DEFENSE
The free will defense of the problem of evil goes
back to St. Augustine who popularized it. It is
still popular, and is championed most notably
today by Alvin Plantinga, but also by other
theologians.
God gave man free will. Man freely chooses to do
evil. Ability to do evil is less evil than
lacking free will.
THE FREE WILL DEFENSE DEBUNKED.
God has free will.
God is omnibenevolent, he has a good nature
incapable of doing evil.
A. If god can have free will, and a good nature,
this good nature is not allowed to count
against god's free will.
B. Nor is god's lack of ability to do evil
allowed to count against god's omnipotence.
C. Likewise, man could easily have a god like
free will and a god like good nature.
D. Inabilty then to do evil would no more count
against man's free will than it does for god's
free will.
E. If so, it also counts against god's free will
and god does not have free will as claimed.
F. If god does not have absolute and total free
will, thus free will is not a true necessity
at all.
F. If god is omnipotent and omnibenevolent, and
can give man a god like free will and a
god-like good nature incapable of moral evil,
god must do so or god is not moral, not
omnibenevolent.
G. Evil exists because he allows it to.
So free will does not exist, or it does and we can
have a god like free will and a god like good
nature. Either way, free will cannot explain away
the existence of evil. This free will defense
then, is a failed argument.
OMNISCIENCE VERSUS CREATORHOOD OF GOD
God is defined as creator of all in most
religions.
And god is claimed to be omniscient, all knowing.
A. God created the Universe and all in it.
B. God is omniscient, all knowing, he knows all
in the Universe and he knows the future of the
Universe and its contents.
C. If god creates a Universe, he will know that
in 13 billion years this Universe will have a
man named John Smith in it.
D. If John Smith is good and saved, or evil and
damned, God will know that.
E. As he knows that the Universe in its present
state will have a John Smith, god may then
contemplate the future state of Smith and
decide if he will tolerate an evil Smith.
F. If yes, Smith will be evil only because of a
specific personal and will choice made solely
by god.
G. If Smith is evil, then evil exists solely
because of a choice made by god. In fact all
moral evil done by creations of god will be
evil and do evil only because of personal and
willful creations of god allowing evil acts
to be done, by direct decision of god.
H. If evil exists in a world with an omniscient
creator god, it is solely and only because
god allows evil.
I. If evil exists solely because of personal
choices of god, god then is not as defined,
omnibenevolent.
J. Man and any other sentient being in such a
Universe cannot have any free will, not even
in principle. A Universe with a god that
creates all and knows all precludes free will
for all beings god creates in the strongest
possible manner.
The Grand God of Grand
Theology is thus self destroying, it is
incoherent and contradictory as a theory
and such a god is impossible.
THE SITUATION SO FAR.
1. A minimalistic class of gods is defined, this
Grand God has been defined here with as few
terms as possible.
2. The problem of evil dooms such a claimed god.
3. The attempted defense, free will is fatally
flawed. God's good nature and free will doom
claims free will makes evil necessary for man
to have free will.
4. Omniscience and creatorhood of god further
doom claims of god's omnibenevolence and
man's free will free will cannot exist for
man. All evil is the direct and knowing
creation of god contradicting claims of
omnibenevolence.
5. Since Free will for man is totally impossible,
free will cannot be a good quality, much less
necessary.
Here, the Grand God of Grand Theology has
collapsed. As has Grand Theology. As pointed out,
this destroys the claims and viability of an
entire class of possible gods, all secondary and
tertiary claims for such a god of this class also
fail, as do dogmas or secondary or tertiary
claims.
If a these Grand Gods cannot exist as defined,
specific gods cannot, nor can claims such as this
or that Grand God sent this or that revelation to
man or some prophet or did this or that.
God is thus disproven and is utter irrelevant
to anything real and existant.
***********
--
"Just because you don't take an interest in politics
doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you."
- Pericles
Cheerful Charlie
.

User: "kathryn"
Title: Re: To the atheists in this forum	10 May 2006 01:49:34 PM

"wbarwell" <wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> wrote in message
news:1264cs9pd7rn0ad@corp.supernews.com...

Daniel wrote:

"Chris Johnson" <effigies@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1147237090.547312.284890@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...

jeeeezuzchrust@hotmail.com wrote:

Daniel wrote:

Daniel! I've missed him. Last time I saw him, he was raving about
getting spammed by atheists.

I see he hasn't learned manners in the meantime.

*snip*

Chris, please don't dictate 'manners' to me.

Spamming in AA is bad manners.
You are an idiot.

For some reason I can't see Daniels posts which is one way a good thing
because he has nothing intelligence or indeed polite to say, but I didn't
kill file him (he's fun to prod - watch him dance!).
.

User: ""
Title: Re: To the atheists in this forum	11 May 2006 04:37:33 AM

Daniel wrote:

"Chris Johnson" <effigies@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1147237090.547312.284890@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...

jeeeezuzchrust@hotmail.com wrote:

Daniel wrote:

Daniel! I've missed him. Last time I saw him, he was raving about
getting spammed by atheists.

I see he hasn't learned manners in the meantime.

*snip*

Chris, please don't dictate 'manners' to me.

Atheists and satanists are the ones coming into a christian newsgroup and
pushing on their own beliefs onto us...

Haven't you learned how newsgroups work yet (I can tell you've learned
nothing about atheism)? I kind of felt sorry for you last time, but
didn't you learn anything? You let yourself get trolled in here
*again*! Either call your parents to help you post properly, or quit
whining about being exposed to adult points of view.

besides, a true atheist would not even want to recognize this newsgroup,
because to them, God does not exist!

But the morons that believe in him do..and they are ruining my country.
*That's* why I recognize the group, idiot. Your god is irrelevant, but
your behavior is dangerous. Sane people need a place to talk about how
to live among you drooling head-cases without getting killed. To many
folks, alt.atheism *is* that place.

And if to them, God does not exist, neither should this newsgroup!

Please tell me you don't drive with a brain that defective.
-Panama Floyd, Atl.
aa#2015, Member Knights of BAAWA!
EAC Martian Commander
"..the prayer cloth of one aeon is the doormat of the next."
-Mark Twain
Religious societies are *less* moral than secular ones:
http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html
.

User: "Neil Kelsey"
Title: Re: To the atheists in this forum	10 May 2006 11:42:52 AM

Daniel wrote:

"Chris Johnson" <effigies@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1147237090.547312.284890@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...

jeeeezuzchrust@hotmail.com wrote:

Daniel wrote:

Daniel! I've missed him. Last time I saw him, he was raving about
getting spammed by atheists.

I see he hasn't learned manners in the meantime.

*snip*

Chris, please don't dictate 'manners' to me.

Atheists and satanists are the ones coming into a christian newsgroup and
pushing on their own beliefs onto us...

I can't speak for Satanists, since I think they're just as loony as
Christians, but how can atheists push a belief onto you when, by
defintion, they don't have any beliefs? Atheists are just challenging
YOUR beliefs, which is fair game, since theists are everywhere in
society pushing their beliefs onto everything.

besides, a true atheist would not even want to recognize this newsgroup,
because to them, God does not exist!
And if to them, God does not exist, neither should this newsgroup!

You're a little confused. This newsgroup obviously exists, you
obviously exist, and you have no proof your "God" exists. It is not a
matter of "belief" to talk to you, we atheists KNOW you exist. You just
can't tell the difference between belief and knowledge.
.

User: ""
Title: Re: To the atheists in this forum	12 May 2006 04:46:23 AM

Daniel wrote:

"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1147279372.311978.285120@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...

Daniel wrote:

"Chris Johnson" <effigies@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1147237090.547312.284890@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...

jeeeezuzchrust@hotmail.com wrote:

Daniel wrote:

Daniel! I've missed him. Last time I saw him, he was raving about
getting spammed by atheists.

I see he hasn't learned manners in the meantime.

*snip*

Chris, please don't dictate 'manners' to me.

Atheists and satanists are the ones coming into a christian newsgroup and
pushing on their own beliefs onto us...

besides, a true atheist would not even want to recognize this newsgroup,
because to them, God does not exist!
And if to them, God does not exist, neither should this newsgroup!

LOL... the fact is, you can't prove to me that he doesn't exist, because
even science itself can only prove so much!

And as for knowledge... well, i won't give pearls to swine.

How Christian of you to insult him and remove the group he reads.
.

User: "Neil Kelsey"
Title: Re: To the atheists in this forum	12 May 2006 12:31:04 PM

wrote:

Daniel wrote:

"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1147279372.311978.285120@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...

Daniel wrote:

"Chris Johnson" <effigies@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1147237090.547312.284890@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...

wrote:

Daniel wrote:

Daniel! I've missed him. Last time I saw him, he was raving about
getting spammed by atheists.

I see he hasn't learned manners in the meantime.

*snip*

Chris, please don't dictate 'manners' to me.

Atheists and satanists are the ones coming into a christian newsgroup and
pushing on their own beliefs onto us...

besides, a true atheist would not even want to recognize this newsgroup,
because to them, God does not exist!
And if to them, God does not exist, neither should this newsgroup!

LOL... the fact is, you can't prove to me that he doesn't exist, because
even science itself can only prove so much!

And as for knowledge... well, i won't give pearls to swine.

How Christian of you to insult him and remove the group he reads.

Isn't pride one of them there 7 deadly sins? It seems a little
presumptuous of him to think that his "knowledge" is "pearls."
.

User: "Doc Smartass"
Title: Re: To the atheists in this forum	12 May 2006 09:17:24 PM

"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1147455064.098681.115100@j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

jeeeezuzchrust@hotmail.com wrote:

Daniel wrote:

"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1147279372.311978.285120@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...

Daniel wrote:

"Chris Johnson" <effigies@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1147237090.547312.284890@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...

jeeeezuzchrust@hotmail.com wrote:

Daniel wrote:

Daniel! I've missed him. Last time I saw him, he was raving
about getting spammed by atheists.

I see he hasn't learned manners in the meantime.

*snip*

Chris, please don't dictate 'manners' to me.

Atheists and satanists are the ones coming into a christian
newsgroup and pushing on their own beliefs onto us...

I can't speak for Satanists, since I think they're just as loony
as Christians, but how can atheists push a belief onto you when,
by defintion, they don't have any beliefs? Atheists are just
challenging YOUR beliefs, which is fair game, since theists are
everywhere in society pushing their beliefs onto everything.

besides, a true atheist would not even want to recognize this
newsgroup, because to them, God does not exist!
And if to them, God does not exist, neither should this
newsgroup!

You're a little confused. This newsgroup obviously exists, you
obviously exist, and you have no proof your "God" exists. It is
not a matter of "belief" to talk to you, we atheists KNOW you
exist. You just can't tell the difference between belief and
knowledge.

LOL... the fact is, you can't prove to me that he doesn't exist,
because even science itself can only prove so much!

And as for knowledge... well, i won't give pearls to swine.

How Christian of you to insult him and remove the group he reads.

Isn't pride one of them there 7 deadly sins? It seems a little
presumptuous of him to think that his "knowledge" is "pearls."

My prognosis is that he's confusing pearls and "little brown eyeballs." I
mean, they're both round. Easy mistake for the uninitiated, I suppose.
--
Doc Smartass
Most truths are so naked that people feel sorry for them and cover them
up, at least a little bit.
--Edward R. Murrow
.

User: "Uncle Vic"
Title: Re: To the atheists in this forum	12 May 2006 10:37:00 PM

Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Doc Smartass
(gekido@astroskivviesboymail.com) made the light shine upon us with
this: