Re: Today's Dose of Silliness



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "johac"
Date: 23 Aug 2003 02:47:23 AM
Object: Re: Today's Dose of Silliness
In article <MPG.19b099f319c94a3398968f@206.172.150.13>,
Josef Balluch <josef.balluch@sympatico.can> wrote:

In the wake of the kerfuffle over Roy's Rock, this opinion piece
appeared in the local rag:

http://tinyurl.com/kwpd

The author's premise is that it is not possible to separate church and
state. What struck me most is the rather lame apologetics offered, all
the more surprising since the author is identified as a theologian and
an "Associate Professor of Christian Thought".

He starts off with one of the theist's favourite tactics of using
definitions to his advantage. He points out that words like "holy" need
not be restricted to just the religious sphere, and that "religious" and
"secular" are not mutually exclusive, therefore there cannot be real
separation of church and state. (Yup. That's his argument, in part.)

The other part of his argument is that one cannot have both separation
of church and state and yet profess to be "one nation under God". For us
Canadians the problem is how to reconcile with a Charter that recognizes
the "supremacy of God".

I must confess that I am not too familiar with the Canadian
Constitution, I wonder if the author is familiar with the US one.There
is no "under God" in our Constitution. There is no mention of a god at
all. Religion is only mentioned once, in the prohibition of religious
tests for public office. The prohibition of establishment of religion,
or preventing its exercise is in the First Amendment. This was not an
oversight. Jefferson, Madison, and others worked very hard to keep
religion out, to avoid the religious discord which was prevalent in
Europe. I would think that if the Founders wanted a theocracy, they
would have put it in.
The "under God" was only added to the Pledge of Allegiance in 1954.
This was at the height of the Cold War, and it was added to show that
we were somehow different than those 'evil, atheistic,Communists'. The
Pledge is merely a patriotic expression, and has no force of law.

Unfortunately, no real argument is presented
here; he apparently just finds it puzzling, that's all. Perhaps he feels
that if you don't specifically acknowledge the authority of the state
then the state forfeits, the remainder of your Constitution
notwithstanding.

It's too bad the prof didn't consult with his deity prior to writing his
piece. As it turns out his deity appears to be an advocate of separation
of church and state:

Mat. 22:21 Render therefore unto Caesar ......

Another fundy who doesn't read his own book.


--
John Hachmann, aa #1782

Pierre Laplace, when asked by Napoleon on why he made
no mention of a god in his book on astronomy: "Sire,
I have no need of that hypothesis."
.

User: "Josef Balluch"

Title: Re: Today's Dose of Silliness 23 Aug 2003 07:50:26 AM
In a message sent 'round the world, johac poured fuel on the fire with
the following:

In article <MPG.19b099f319c94a3398968f@206.172.150.13>,
Josef Balluch <josef.balluch@sympatico.can> wrote:

....

The other part of his argument is that one cannot have both separation
of church and state and yet profess to be "one nation under God". For us
Canadians the problem is how to reconcile with a Charter that recognizes
the "supremacy of God".


I must confess that I am not too familiar with the Canadian
Constitution, I wonder if the author is familiar with the US one.There
is no "under God" in our Constitution.

....

The Pledge is merely a patriotic expression, and has no force of law.

I do not get the impression that there is any confusion on the part of
the author. He is an associate prof at a well respected Canadian
university, so he has access to all sorts of research material. I would
be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on this. To me, his
mention of the US pledge is just an indication of how anxious he is to
find any support at all for his very lame argument.
....
Regards,
Josef
It is error alone which needs the support of government. Truth can stand
by itself.
-- Thomas Jefferson
.


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