Religions > Atheism > Re: Today's Founder Quote: Liberal, Secuar Humanism seeks freedom from all the moral responsibility, the 10 Commandmants or Strict Construction
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Carol Lee Smith" |
| Date: |
13 Sep 2003 01:52:46 PM |
| Object: |
Re: Today's Founder Quote: Liberal, Secuar Humanism seeks freedom from all the moral responsibility, the 10 Commandmants or Strict Construction |
What is "Secuar Humanism"?
Another figment of your imagination?
As is his wont, On Sat, 13 Sep 2003, CB again provides a quotation
snatched out of context:
Today's Founder Quote:
"Government implies the power of making laws. It is essential to the idea of
a law, that it be attended with a sanction; or, in other words, a penalty or
punishment for disobedience."
--Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 15
---begin excerpt for context---------------
It is a singular instance of the capriciousness of the human mind, that
after all the admonitions we have had from experience on this head, there
should still be found men who object to the new Constitution, for
deviating from a principle which has been found the bane of the old, and
which is in itself evidently incompatible with the idea of GOVERNMENT; a
principle, in short, which, if it is to be executed at all, must
substitute the violent and sanguinary agency of the sword to the mild
influence of the magistracy.
There is nothing absurd or impracticable in the idea of a league or
alliance between independent nations for certain defined purposes
precisely stated in a treaty regulating all the details of time, place,
circumstance, and quantity; leaving nothing to future discretion; and
depending for its execution on the good faith of the parties. Compacts of
this kind exist among all civilized nations, subject to the usual
vicissitudes of peace and war, of observance and non-observance, as the
interests or passions of the contracting powers dictate. In the early part
of the present century there was an epidemical rage in Europe for this
species of compacts, from which the politicians of the times fondly hoped
for benefits which were never realized. With a view to establishing the
equilibrium of power and the peace of that part of the world, all the
resources of negotiation were exhausted, and triple and quadruple
alliances were formed; but they were scarcely formed before they were
broken, giving an instructive but afflicting lesson to mankind, how little
dependence is to be placed on treaties which have no other sanction than
the obligations of good faith, and which oppose general considerations of
peace and justice to the impulse of any immediate interest or passion.
If the particular States in this country are disposed to stand in a
similar relation to each other, and to drop the project of a general
DISCRETIONARY SUPERINTENDENCE, the scheme would indeed be pernicious, and
would entail upon us all the mischiefs which have been enumerated under
the first head; but it would have the merit of being, at least, consistent
and practicable Abandoning all views towards a confederate government,
this would bring us to a simple alliance offensive and defensive; and
would place us in a situation to be alternate friends and enemies of each
other, as our mutual jealousies and rivalships, nourished by the intrigues
of foreign nations, should prescribe to us.
But if we are unwilling to be placed in this perilous situation; if we
still will adhere to the design of a national government, or, which is the
same thing, of a superintending power, under the direction of a common
council, we must resolve to incorporate into our plan those ingredients
which may be considered as forming the characteristic difference between a
league and a government; we must extend the authority of the Union to the
persons of the citizens, --the only proper objects of government.
Government implies the power of making laws. It is essential to the idea
of a law, that it be attended with a sanction; or, in other words, a
penalty or punishment for disobedience. If there be no penalty annexed to
disobedience, the resolutions or commands which pretend to be laws will,
in fact, amount to nothing more than advice or recommendation. This
penalty, whatever it may be, can only be inflicted in two ways: by the
agency of the courts and ministers of justice, or by military force; by
the COERCION of the magistracy, or by the COERCION of arms. The first kind
can evidently apply only to men; the last kind must of necessity, be
employed against bodies politic, or communities, or States. It is evident
that there is no process of a court by which the observance of the laws
can, in the last resort, be enforced. Sentences may be denounced against
them for violations of their duty; but these sentences can only be carried
into execution by the sword. In an association where the general authority
is confined to the collective bodies of the communities, that compose it,
every breach of the laws must involve a state of war; and military
execution must become the only instrument of civil obedience. Such a state
of things can certainly not deserve the name of government, nor would any
prudent man choose to commit his happiness to it. ...
In our case, the concurrence of thirteen distinct sovereign wills is
requisite, under the Confederation, to the complete execution of every
important measure that proceeds from the Union. It has happened as was to
have been foreseen. The measures of the Union have not been executed; the
delinquencies of the States have, step by step, matured themselves to an
extreme, which has, at length, arrested all the wheels of the national
government, and brought them to an awful stand. Congress at this time
scarcely possess the means of keeping up the forms of administration, till
the States can have time to agree upon a more substantial substitute for
the present shadow of a federal government. Things did not come to this
desperate extremity at once. ...
-------end of excerpt-----------
for more context, see: http://memory.loc.gov/const/fed/fed_15.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.thomasjeffersonpapers.org/virginia/#online
says:
Notes on the State of Virginia, [manuscript], [1781-1784]
From the collections of the Massachusetts Historical Society, Boston,
Massachusetts.
Forthcoming online version
Summary description
Physical description and conservation treatment of the manuscript volume
Forthcoming online version
In 2004, the Massachusetts Historical Society will present an online
version of Notes on the State of Virginia. The online publication will
feature images of the manuscript copy and the additions Jefferson attached
to the main pages of the manuscript, a transcription of the work, and
possibly images and transcriptions of early published editions.
Summary description
The manuscript copy of Thomas Jefferson's Notes on the State of Virginia
forms part of the Coolidge Collection of Thomas Jefferson Manuscripts. In
this work, his only full-length book, Jefferson describes many aspects of
his state. The content of the book stemmed from Jefferson's informative
responses to a series of queries originally posed by Francois de Marbois,
the secretary of the French legation. (The questionnaire was distributed
to people from several different states in 1780, and there is evidence
that a few people responded. In December 1781, Jefferson sent his answers
to Marbois, and over the next few years, Jefferson expanded and revised
the information he compiled about Virginia. These revisions eventually
were published as a book in 1785.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Such is the moral construction of the world that no national crime passes
unpunished in the long run... Were present oppressors to reflect on the same
truth, they would spare to their own countries the penalties on their
present wrongs which will be inflicted on them in future times. The seeds of
hatred and revenge which they [sow] with a large hand will not fail to
produce their fruits in time. Like their brother robbers on the highway,
they suppose the escape of the moment a final escape and deem infamy and
future risk countervailed by present gain."
- Thomas Jefferson, 18th-century American Founding Father, early
19th century U.S. president (letter to Francois de Marbois, 1817)
___________________________________
"When contemplating college liberals, you really regret once again that
John Walker is not getting the death penalty. We need to execute people
like John Walker in order to physically intimidate liberals, by making
them realize that they can be killed too. Otherwise they will turn out
to be outright traitors."
- Ann Coulter, at the Conservative Political Action Conference
See "Lies and the Lying Liars who tell them"
Coulter is one of those liars.
"Liberty is not to be enjoyed, indeed it cannot exist, without the habits of
just subordination; it consists, not so much in removing all restraint from
the orderly, as in imposing it on the violent."
--Fisher Ames
What?
No citation? I am shocked. Guess we can assume this is just one more
bogus quotation.
.
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| User: "Dana" |
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| Title: Re: Today's Founder Quote: Liberal, Secuar Humanism seeks freedom from all the moral responsibility, the 10 Commandmants or Strict Construction |
13 Sep 2003 02:12:42 PM |
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"Carol Lee Smith" <human@csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.OSF.3.96.1030913132845.1745D-100000@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu...
What is "Secuar Humanism"?
The reglion the left is preaching in our public schools.
Today's Founder Quote:
"Government implies the power of making laws. It is essential to the
idea of
a law, that it be attended with a sanction; or, in other words, a
penalty or
punishment for disobedience."
--Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 15
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| User: "Mark Nutter" |
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| Title: Re: Today's Founder Quote: Liberal, Secuar Humanism seeks freedom from all the moral responsibility, the 10 Commandmants or Strict Construction |
14 Sep 2003 05:27:33 PM |
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"Dana" <#####@example.com> wrote in message news:<vm6qlfnlk29e78@corp.supernews.com>...
"Carol Lee Smith" <human@csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.OSF.3.96.1030913132845.1745D-100000@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu...
What is "Secuar Humanism"?
The reglion the left is preaching in our public schools.
Valid charge or merely Christian supremacist rhetoric?
Just as the white supremacist argues that his civil rights are
violated unless the state puts whites above all other races, the
Christian supremacist contends that his religious rights are violated
unless the state actively promotes his Christian beliefs above all
other beliefs.
If the state is actively preaching a religion, it should stop, because
that violates the First Amendment. But if the state is merely failing
to actively promote Christian belief, it is Christian supremacist
propaganda to refer to that silence as the preaching of an
anti-Christian religion.
There is a very simple test to tell whether the charge above is a
valid charge, or merely Christian supremacist propaganda: if the
state is preaching a religion, then there are things it is saying that
it shouldn't. If you can identify exactly who it is that is saying
things they shouldn't, and exactly what it is they should stop saying,
then you may have a valid charge. If there's nothing the state can
stop saying, and you're complaining merely because they're failing to
preach the religion you *want* them to preach, then you are just
spreading Christian supremacist propaganda.
So just what is it that is being said in the public schools that you
want them to stop saying?
m
aa#2115
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| User: "Ninure Saunders" |
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| Title: Re: Today's Founder Quote: Liberal, Secuar Humanism seeks freedom from all the moral responsibility, the 10 Commandmants or Strict Construction |
14 Sep 2003 09:43:37 AM |
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In article <vm6qlfnlk29e78@corp.supernews.com>, "Dana" <#####@example.com>
wrote:
-"Carol Lee Smith" <human@csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
-news:Pine.OSF.3.96.1030913132845.1745D-100000@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu...
-> What is "Secuar Humanism"?
-
-The reglion the left is preaching in our public schools.
-
Današs idea of morality, and family values:
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q=feet%20&safe=images&ie=ISO-8859-1&as_uauthors=dana%20raffaniello%20&lr=&num=50&hl=en
Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
http://Rainbow-Christian.tk
The Lord is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
http://Ninure-Saunders.tk
My Yahoo Group
http://Ninure.tk
My Online Diary
http://www.ninure.deardiary.net
-
Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches
http://www.MCCchurch.org
To send e-mail, remove nohate from address
.
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| User: "Dana" |
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| Title: Re: Today's Founder Quote: Liberal, Secuar Humanism seeks freedom from all the moral responsibility, the 10 Commandmants or Strict Construction |
14 Sep 2003 10:09:32 PM |
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"Ninure Saunders" <RainbowChristiannohate@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:RainbowChristiannohate-1409030955370001@h-68-164-225-56.chcgilgm.covad.net...
In article <vm6qlfnlk29e78@corp.supernews.com>, "Dana" <#####@example.com>
wrote:
-"Carol Lee Smith" <human@csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
-news:Pine.OSF.3.96.1030913132845.1745D-100000@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu...
-> What is "Secuar Humanism"?
-
-The reglion the left is preaching in our public schools.
-
Ninure's idea of morality is what Nambla engages in.
You aint dead of aids yet ninure, man hurry up and catch it already.
:
Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
http://Rainbow-Christian.tk
The Lord is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
http://Ninure-Saunders.tk
My Yahoo Group
http://Ninure.tk
My Online Diary
http://www.ninure.deardiary.net
-
Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches
http://www.MCCchurch.org
To send e-mail, remove nohate from address
.
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| User: "Ninure Saunders" |
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| Title: Re: Today's Founder Quote: Liberal, Secuar Humanism seeks freedom from all the moral responsibility, the 10 Commandmants or Strict Construction |
15 Sep 2003 08:50:06 AM |
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In article <vmaavki7h38bd1@corp.supernews.com>, "Dana" <#####@example.com>
wrote:
-"Ninure Saunders" <RainbowChristiannohate@hotmail.com> wrote in message
-news:RainbowChristiannohate-1409030955370001@h-68-164-225-56.chcgilgm.covad.net...
-> In article <vm6qlfnlk29e78@corp.supernews.com>, "Dana" <#####@example.com>
-> wrote:
->
-> -"Carol Lee Smith" <human@csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
-> -news:Pine.OSF.3.96.1030913132845.1745D-100000@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu...
-> -> What is "Secuar Humanism"?
-> -
-> -The reglion the left is preaching in our public schools.
-> -
->
-
-Ninure's idea of morality is what<snip> engages in.
The only prson here who supports N@MBLA is people like Dana, who
constantly give that orgnaization publicity...
-You aint dead of aids yet ninure, man hurry up and catch it already.
Another fine example if Dana's idea of Christian morality.....
Almost funny, coming someone who offers to be a "human toliet" ...
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q=feet%20&safe=images&ie=ISO-8859-1&as_uauthors=dana%20raffaniello%20&lr=&num=50&hl=en
Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
http://Rainbow-Christian.tk
The Lord is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
http://Ninure-Saunders.tk
My Yahoo Group
http://Ninure.tk
My Online Diary
http://www.ninure.deardiary.net
-
Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches
http://www.MCCchurch.org
To send e-mail, remove nohate from address
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Today's Founder Quote: Liberal, Secuar Humanism seeks freedom from all the moral responsibility, the 10 Commandmants or Strict Construction |
13 Sep 2003 05:19:30 PM |
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On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 11:12:42 -0800, "Dana" <#####@example.com> wrote:
"Carol Lee Smith" <human@csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.OSF.3.96.1030913132845.1745D-100000@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu...
What is "Secuar Humanism"?
The reglion the left is preaching in our public schools.
What "religion of the left", BUTTMASTER?
You think your buttlicking fetishes are Moral?
---------------------------------------------------
ladies use my tongue for your pleasure
</groups?q=author:danaraffaniello%40worldnet.
att.net&start=210&hl=en&lr=&ie=UT>F-8&selm=
63j187%24nji%40bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net&rnum=226>
swm very oral will orally worship any female that wishes to be worshipped.
will kiss and lick your feet and butt .
might be wiling to be your toilet paper if you
are that aggressive
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| User: "Carol Lee Smith" |
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| Title: Re: Today's Founder Quote: Liberal, Secuar Humanism seeks freedom from all the moral responsibility, the 10 Commandmants or Strict Construction |
13 Sep 2003 02:35:17 PM |
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On Sat, 13 Sep 2003, Dana wrote:
"Carol Lee Smith" <human@csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.OSF.3.96.1030913132845.1745D-100000@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu...
What is "Secuar Humanism"?
The reglion the left is preaching in our public schools.
"secuar"
"reglion"
I think you really need to learn to express yourself better than you do,
Dana.
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| User: "D Wolf" |
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| Title: Re: Today's Founder Quote: Liberal, Secuar Humanism seeks freedom from all the moral responsibility, the 10 Commandmants or Strict Construction |
13 Sep 2003 04:29:31 PM |
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On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 14:35:17 -0500, Carol Lee Smith
<human@csd.uwm.edu> wrote:
On Sat, 13 Sep 2003, Dana wrote:
"Carol Lee Smith" <human@csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.OSF.3.96.1030913132845.1745D-100000@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu...
What is "Secuar Humanism"?
The reglion the left is preaching in our public schools.
"secuar"
"reglion"
I think you really need to learn to express yourself better than you do,
Dana.
He's never been very good at that. : /
Dana Wolf
a#344
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