| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
19 Apr 2007 03:56:51 PM |
| Object: |
Re: Vatican: Humanity Is Heading For Self-Genocide |
On Apr 18, 8:08 pm, *Anarcissie* <anarcis...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Apr 18, 5:56 pm, "yarr...@aol.com" <yarr...@aol.com> wrote:
On Apr 17, 10:43 pm, *Anarcissie* <anarcis...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Apr 17, 9:59 pm, Dan Clore <c...@columbia-center.org> wrote:
yarr...@aol.com wrote:
On Apr 16, 11:57 pm, Walter Bushell <p...@oanix.com> wrote:
"yarr...@aol.com" <yarr...@aol.com> wrote:
This is an excerpt from STR website:
" Grab an older copy of the Guinness Book of World Records and turn
to the category "Judicial," sub-heading "Crimes: Mass Killings."
You'll find that carnage of unimaginable proportions resulted not from
religion, but from institutionalized atheism.
Guinness reports, "The greatest massacre ever imputed by the
government of one sovereign against another is the 26.3 million
Chinese killed during the regime of Mao Zedong between 1949 and May
1965. The Walker Report published by the U.S. Senate Committee of the
Judiciary in July 1971 placed...the total death toll in China since
1949 between 32.25 and 61.7 million."
In the USSR, Nobel Prize winner Alexander Solzhenitsyn estimated
that state repression and terrorism took over 66 million lives from
1917 to 1959 under Lenin, Stalin and Khrushchev.
The worst per capita genocide happened in Cambodia under the
Khmer Rouge. According to Guinness, "More than one third of the eight
million Khmers were killed between April 17, 1975 and January 1979."
One should note that these are all *very* high estimates, probably
impossibly high, considering population figures.
However, I notice they have stayed relatively stable in
recent years. I remember when they used to go up pretty
constantly, and someone calculated that in 2015, it would
be proved that the Communists had killed everyone on
earth.-
Sure, Guinness Book of World Records if full of faulty numerical
entries. That's because they never bother to check the best available
numbers prior to publishing. You OTOH, have all your sources right
down to the last decimal point. Give me a break...
The bottom line is that you just don't want to admit the obvious facts
as they have been clearly outlined on the basis of excellent data.
Man's humanity to man is never surprising to me, so I
certainly would not put any energy into denying -- or
conceding -- your "obvious facts." There is nothing that
can be done about any of it anyway. I have been told
on numerous occasions that a full recognition of this
or that massacre will prevent future ones from
happening, but there is no evidence so far that it
does. Of, if you think the information is useful in some
other way, what is it? Some people like to score
political ideologies and religions according to how many
people they've done in. I guess it's a sort of parlor
game. In fact, every major belief system has been
made the basis of mass slaughter at one time or
another, regardless of what its adherents profess.-
There has been a movement afoot that paints religion as the main
culprit behind the vast majority of killings in history. However, the
numbers simply prove this to be false. What we are talking about here
is an objective perspective and not one that is coloured by ideology
that is hostile toward religion in general with Christianity being the
favorite, and entirely unjustifiably, whiping boy. What I am fighting
here is 100% pure propaganda and doing so because people deserve to
know the truth and not be lied to.
Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
.
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| User: "baby_ifritah" |
|
| Title: Re: Vatican: Humanity Is Heading For Self-Genocide |
19 Apr 2007 07:15:48 PM |
|
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<yarrido@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1177016211.187180.292370@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 18, 8:08 pm, *Anarcissie* <anarcis...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Apr 18, 5:56 pm, "yarr...@aol.com" <yarr...@aol.com> wrote:
On Apr 17, 10:43 pm, *Anarcissie* <anarcis...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Apr 17, 9:59 pm, Dan Clore <c...@columbia-center.org> wrote:
yarr...@aol.com wrote:
On Apr 16, 11:57 pm, Walter Bushell <p...@oanix.com> wrote:
"yarr...@aol.com" <yarr...@aol.com> wrote:
This is an excerpt from STR website:
" Grab an older copy of the Guinness Book of World Records and
turn
to the category "Judicial," sub-heading "Crimes: Mass Killings."
You'll find that carnage of unimaginable proportions resulted not
from
religion, but from institutionalized atheism.
Guinness reports, "The greatest massacre ever imputed by
the
government of one sovereign against another is the 26.3 million
Chinese killed during the regime of Mao Zedong between 1949 and
May
1965. The Walker Report published by the U.S. Senate Committee
of the
Judiciary in July 1971 placed...the total death toll in China
since
1949 between 32.25 and 61.7 million."
In the USSR, Nobel Prize winner Alexander Solzhenitsyn
estimated
that state repression and terrorism took over 66 million lives
from
1917 to 1959 under Lenin, Stalin and Khrushchev.
The worst per capita genocide happened in Cambodia under
the
Khmer Rouge. According to Guinness, "More than one third of the
eight
million Khmers were killed between April 17, 1975 and January
1979."
One should note that these are all *very* high estimates, probably
impossibly high, considering population figures.
However, I notice they have stayed relatively stable in
recent years. I remember when they used to go up pretty
constantly, and someone calculated that in 2015, it would
be proved that the Communists had killed everyone on
earth.-
Sure, Guinness Book of World Records if full of faulty numerical
entries. That's because they never bother to check the best available
numbers prior to publishing. You OTOH, have all your sources right
down to the last decimal point. Give me a break...
The bottom line is that you just don't want to admit the obvious facts
as they have been clearly outlined on the basis of excellent data.
Man's humanity to man is never surprising to me, so I
certainly would not put any energy into denying -- or
conceding -- your "obvious facts." There is nothing that
can be done about any of it anyway. I have been told
on numerous occasions that a full recognition of this
or that massacre will prevent future ones from
happening, but there is no evidence so far that it
does. Of, if you think the information is useful in some
other way, what is it? Some people like to score
political ideologies and religions according to how many
people they've done in. I guess it's a sort of parlor
game. In fact, every major belief system has been
made the basis of mass slaughter at one time or
another, regardless of what its adherents profess.-
There has been a movement afoot that paints religion as the main
culprit behind the vast majority of killings in history. However, the
numbers simply prove this to be false. What we are talking about here
is an objective perspective and not one that is coloured by ideology
that is hostile toward religion in general with Christianity being the
favorite, and entirely unjustifiably, whiping boy. What I am fighting
here is 100% pure propaganda and doing so because people deserve to
know the truth and not be lied to.
i don't disagree that religion is a favourite whipping boy but this line of
argument is not very constructive. it pretty much reduces to this...
"he hit me"
"but he hit me harder."
"but he hit me first."
"but he hit me twice."
ad infinitum.....
if you look at patterns of human behaviour, rather than pointing fingers,
you have *slightly* more chance of a reasoned response instead of a pissing
contest.
.
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| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Vatican: Humanity Is Heading For Self-Genocide |
23 Apr 2007 03:17:02 PM |
|
|
On Apr 19, 8:15 pm, "baby_ifritah" <baby_ifri...@optusnet.c0m.au>
wrote:
<yarr...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1177016211.187180.292370@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 18, 8:08 pm, *Anarcissie* <anarcis...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Apr 18, 5:56 pm, "yarr...@aol.com" <yarr...@aol.com> wrote:
On Apr 17, 10:43 pm, *Anarcissie* <anarcis...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Apr 17, 9:59 pm, Dan Clore <c...@columbia-center.org> wrote:
yarr...@aol.com wrote:
On Apr 16, 11:57 pm, Walter Bushell <p...@oanix.com> wrote:
"yarr...@aol.com" <yarr...@aol.com> wrote:
This is an excerpt from STR website:
" Grab an older copy of the Guinness Book of World Records and
turn
to the category "Judicial," sub-heading "Crimes: Mass Killings."
You'll find that carnage of unimaginable proportions resulted not
from
religion, but from institutionalized atheism.
Guinness reports, "The greatest massacre ever imputed by
the
government of one sovereign against another is the 26.3 million
Chinese killed during the regime of Mao Zedong between 1949 and
May
1965. The Walker Report published by the U.S. Senate Committee
of the
Judiciary in July 1971 placed...the total death toll in China
since
1949 between 32.25 and 61.7 million."
In the USSR, Nobel Prize winner Alexander Solzhenitsyn
estimated
that state repression and terrorism took over 66 million lives
from
1917 to 1959 under Lenin, Stalin and Khrushchev.
The worst per capita genocide happened in Cambodia under
the
Khmer Rouge. According to Guinness, "More than one third of the
eight
million Khmers were killed between April 17, 1975 and January
1979."
One should note that these are all *very* high estimates, probably
impossibly high, considering population figures.
However, I notice they have stayed relatively stable in
recent years. I remember when they used to go up pretty
constantly, and someone calculated that in 2015, it would
be proved that the Communists had killed everyone on
earth.-
Sure, Guinness Book of World Records if full of faulty numerical
entries. That's because they never bother to check the best available
numbers prior to publishing. You OTOH, have all your sources right
down to the last decimal point. Give me a break...
The bottom line is that you just don't want to admit the obvious facts
as they have been clearly outlined on the basis of excellent data.
Man's humanity to man is never surprising to me, so I
certainly would not put any energy into denying -- or
conceding -- your "obvious facts." There is nothing that
can be done about any of it anyway. I have been told
on numerous occasions that a full recognition of this
or that massacre will prevent future ones from
happening, but there is no evidence so far that it
does. Of, if you think the information is useful in some
other way, what is it? Some people like to score
political ideologies and religions according to how many
people they've done in. I guess it's a sort of parlor
game. In fact, every major belief system has been
made the basis of mass slaughter at one time or
another, regardless of what its adherents profess.-
There has been a movement afoot that paints religion as the main
culprit behind the vast majority of killings in history. However, the
numbers simply prove this to be false. What we are talking about here
is an objective perspective and not one that is coloured by ideology
that is hostile toward religion in general with Christianity being the
favorite, and entirely unjustifiably, whiping boy. What I am fighting
here is 100% pure propaganda and doing so because people deserve to
know the truth and not be lied to.
i don't disagree that religion is a favourite whipping boy but this line of
argument is not very constructive. it pretty much reduces to this...
"he hit me"
"but he hit me harder."
"but he hit me first."
"but he hit me twice."
ad infinitum.....
This is exactly what I tried to avoid by brining in a disinterested
third party...i.e. Guinness. It is then no longer just a matter of the
personal opinion of two parties that have a personal stake at having
their side win. That being said, your example becomes a shabby fit for
what actually happened in this debate.
if you look at patterns of human behaviour, rather than pointing fingers,
I would hope that when I am wrong, someone cared enough about me to
point some fingers in my direction.
you have *slightly* more chance of a reasoned response instead of a pissing
contest.
There is nothing wrong with answering charges that are plainly
wrong. You have to draw the line somwhere and not allow the
intellectual bully to push you around. When dealing with reasonable
people, your approach might work, but I don't think that this is the
case here. We are dealing with people who are emoting, not reasoning,
and uness someone points a finger to this shortcomming, no positive
change can be expected. It's just like in the AA program...a person
must first come to terms with his problem before he can take positive
steps to eliminate it. If he doesn't do that first step, you can
forget the rest of the steps as they are just not going to happen.
.
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| User: "brique" |
|
| Title: Re: Vatican: Humanity Is Heading For Self-Genocide |
28 Apr 2007 07:37:25 PM |
|
|
<yarrido@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1177359422.708231.183600@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 19, 8:15 pm, "baby_ifritah" <baby_ifri...@optusnet.c0m.au>
wrote:
<yarr...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1177016211.187180.292370@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 18, 8:08 pm, *Anarcissie* <anarcis...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Apr 18, 5:56 pm, "yarr...@aol.com" <yarr...@aol.com> wrote:
On Apr 17, 10:43 pm, *Anarcissie* <anarcis...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Apr 17, 9:59 pm, Dan Clore <c...@columbia-center.org> wrote:
yarr...@aol.com wrote:
On Apr 16, 11:57 pm, Walter Bushell <p...@oanix.com> wrote:
"yarr...@aol.com" <yarr...@aol.com> wrote:
This is an excerpt from STR website:
" Grab an older copy of the Guinness Book of World Records
and
turn
to the category "Judicial," sub-heading "Crimes: Mass
Killings."
You'll find that carnage of unimaginable proportions resulted
not
from
religion, but from institutionalized atheism.
Guinness reports, "The greatest massacre ever imputed
by
the
government of one sovereign against another is the 26.3
million
Chinese killed during the regime of Mao Zedong between 1949
and
May
1965. The Walker Report published by the U.S. Senate
Committee
of the
Judiciary in July 1971 placed...the total death toll in China
since
1949 between 32.25 and 61.7 million."
In the USSR, Nobel Prize winner Alexander Solzhenitsyn
estimated
that state repression and terrorism took over 66 million
lives
from
1917 to 1959 under Lenin, Stalin and Khrushchev.
The worst per capita genocide happened in Cambodia
under
the
Khmer Rouge. According to Guinness, "More than one third of
the
eight
million Khmers were killed between April 17, 1975 and January
1979."
One should note that these are all *very* high estimates,
probably
impossibly high, considering population figures.
However, I notice they have stayed relatively stable in
recent years. I remember when they used to go up pretty
constantly, and someone calculated that in 2015, it would
be proved that the Communists had killed everyone on
earth.-
Sure, Guinness Book of World Records if full of faulty numerical
entries. That's because they never bother to check the best
available
numbers prior to publishing. You OTOH, have all your sources right
down to the last decimal point. Give me a break...
The bottom line is that you just don't want to admit the obvious
facts
as they have been clearly outlined on the basis of excellent data.
Man's humanity to man is never surprising to me, so I
certainly would not put any energy into denying -- or
conceding -- your "obvious facts." There is nothing that
can be done about any of it anyway. I have been told
on numerous occasions that a full recognition of this
or that massacre will prevent future ones from
happening, but there is no evidence so far that it
does. Of, if you think the information is useful in some
other way, what is it? Some people like to score
political ideologies and religions according to how many
people they've done in. I guess it's a sort of parlor
game. In fact, every major belief system has been
made the basis of mass slaughter at one time or
another, regardless of what its adherents profess.-
There has been a movement afoot that paints religion as the main
culprit behind the vast majority of killings in history. However, the
numbers simply prove this to be false. What we are talking about here
is an objective perspective and not one that is coloured by ideology
that is hostile toward religion in general with Christianity being the
favorite, and entirely unjustifiably, whiping boy. What I am fighting
here is 100% pure propaganda and doing so because people deserve to
know the truth and not be lied to.
i don't disagree that religion is a favourite whipping boy but this line
of
argument is not very constructive. it pretty much reduces to this...
"he hit me"
"but he hit me harder."
"but he hit me first."
"but he hit me twice."
ad infinitum.....
This is exactly what I tried to avoid by brining in a disinterested
third party...i.e. Guinness. It is then no longer just a matter of the
personal opinion of two parties that have a personal stake at having
their side win. That being said, your example becomes a shabby fit for
what actually happened in this debate.
Before you rely on the 'disinterested' Guinness Book of Records, perhaps you
would like to check out the political opinions of the then editors for the
period of which you speak, the McWhirter brothers.
for example:
"He (Ross Mcwhirter) was an active Conservative in the early 1960s and
fought, unsuccessfully, the seat of Edmonton in the 1964 general election.
Both brothers held right-wing views on topics such as immigration, Rhodesia,
South Africa, British membership of the European Economic Community and
Northern Ireland. Always vigorous campaigners for their version of the
liberty of the individual, they founded the 'National Association for
Freedom', later 'The Freedom Association', in 1975. This organisation
initiated legal challenges against the trade union movement in the UK, CND
and the E.E.C. in Brussels."
"Norris McWhirter was a member of the Secretariat of the anti-communist
European Freedom Campaign group, established in London at an Inaugural Rally
at Westminster Central Hall on 10th December 1988. This group's
co-ordinating committee consisted almost exclusively of representatives from
countries behind the Iron Curtain."
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Vatican: Humanity Is Heading For Self-Genocide |
01 May 2007 09:30:36 PM |
|
|
On Apr 24, 4:17 am, "yarr...@aol.com" <yarr...@aol.com> wrote:
On Apr 19, 8:15 pm, "baby_ifritah" <baby_ifri...@optusnet.c0m.au>
wrote:
<yarr...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1177016211.187180.292370@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 18, 8:08 pm, *Anarcissie* <anarcis...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Apr 18, 5:56 pm, "yarr...@aol.com" <yarr...@aol.com> wrote:
On Apr 17, 10:43 pm, *Anarcissie* <anarcis...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Apr 17, 9:59 pm, Dan Clore <c...@columbia-center.org> wrote:
yarr...@aol.com wrote:
On Apr 16, 11:57 pm, Walter Bushell <p...@oanix.com> wrote:
"yarr...@aol.com" <yarr...@aol.com> wrote:
This is an excerpt from STR website:
" Grab an older copy of the Guinness Book of World Records and
turn
to the category "Judicial," sub-heading "Crimes: Mass Killings."
You'll find that carnage of unimaginable proportions resulted not
from
religion, but from institutionalized atheism.
Guinness reports, "The greatest massacre ever imputed by
the
government of one sovereign against another is the 26.3 million
Chinese killed during the regime of Mao Zedong between 1949 and
May
1965. The Walker Report published by the U.S. Senate Committee
of the
Judiciary in July 1971 placed...the total death toll in China
since
1949 between 32.25 and 61.7 million."
In the USSR, Nobel Prize winner Alexander Solzhenitsyn
estimated
that state repression and terrorism took over 66 million lives
from
1917 to 1959 under Lenin, Stalin and Khrushchev.
The worst per capita genocide happened in Cambodia under
the
Khmer Rouge. According to Guinness, "More than one third of the
eight
million Khmers were killed between April 17, 1975 and January
1979."
One should note that these are all *very* high estimates, probably
impossibly high, considering population figures.
However, I notice they have stayed relatively stable in
recent years. I remember when they used to go up pretty
constantly, and someone calculated that in 2015, it would
be proved that the Communists had killed everyone on
earth.-
Sure, Guinness Book of World Records if full of faulty numerical
entries. That's because they never bother to check the best available
numbers prior to publishing. You OTOH, have all your sources right
down to the last decimal point. Give me a break...
The bottom line is that you just don't want to admit the obvious facts
as they have been clearly outlined on the basis of excellent data.
Man's humanity to man is never surprising to me, so I
certainly would not put any energy into denying -- or
conceding -- your "obvious facts." There is nothing that
can be done about any of it anyway. I have been told
on numerous occasions that a full recognition of this
or that massacre will prevent future ones from
happening, but there is no evidence so far that it
does. Of, if you think the information is useful in some
other way, what is it? Some people like to score
political ideologies and religions according to how many
people they've done in. I guess it's a sort of parlor
game. In fact, every major belief system has been
made the basis of mass slaughter at one time or
another, regardless of what its adherents profess.-
There has been a movement afoot that paints religion as the main
culprit behind the vast majority of killings in history. However, the
numbers simply prove this to be false. What we are talking about here
is an objective perspective and not one that is coloured by ideology
that is hostile toward religion in general with Christianity being the
favorite, and entirely unjustifiably, whiping boy. What I am fighting
here is 100% pure propaganda and doing so because people deserve to
know the truth and not be lied to.
i don't disagree that religion is a favourite whipping boy but this line of
argument is not very constructive. it pretty much reduces to this...
"he hit me"
"but he hit me harder."
"but he hit me first."
"but he hit me twice."
ad infinitum.....
This is exactly what I tried to avoid by brining in a disinterested
third party...i.e. Guinness. It is then no longer just a matter of the
personal opinion of two parties that have a personal stake at having
their side win. That being said, your example becomes a shabby fit for
what actually happened in this debate.
if you look at patterns of human behaviour, rather than pointing fingers,
I would hope that when I am wrong, someone cared enough about me to
point some fingers in my direction.
you have *slightly* more chance of a reasoned response instead of a pissing
contest.
There is nothing wrong with answering charges that are plainly
wrong. You have to draw the line somwhere and not allow the
intellectual bully to push you around. When dealing with reasonable
people, your approach might work, but I don't think that this is the
case here. We are dealing with people who are emoting, not reasoning,
and uness someone points a finger to this shortcomming, no positive
change can be expected. It's just like in the AA program...a person
must first come to terms with his problem before he can take positive
steps to eliminate it. If he doesn't do that first step, you can
forget the rest of the steps as they are just not going to happen.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
But you are the one that is not truthful, i.e. believing in unfounded
and unproven firgure and eventss in the bible........
You very well know that there is no god to speak of.........
If there is one, you would not imagine about the in-equalitties
existed in this would.....
Or Bush would not defy god's doing in the event of 9-11...........
Rights>>>>>>>>>?
Yap
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Vatican Is Heading For Self-Genocide |
26 Apr 2007 08:57:40 PM |
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|
On Apr 19, 4:56 pm, "yarr...@aol.com" <yarr...@aol.com> wrote:
On Apr 18, 8:08 pm, *Anarcissie* <anarcis...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Apr 18, 5:56 pm, "yarr...@aol.com" <yarr...@aol.com> wrote:
The bottom line is that you just don't want to admit the obvious facts
as they have been clearly outlined on the basis of excellent data.
Man's humanity to man is never surprising to me, so I
certainly would not put any energy into denying -- or
conceding -- your "obvious facts." There is nothing that
can be done about any of it anyway. I have been told
on numerous occasions that a full recognition of this
or that massacre will prevent future ones from
happening, but there is no evidence so far that it
does. Of, if you think the information is useful in some
other way, what is it? Some people like to score
political ideologies and religions according to how many
people they've done in. I guess it's a sort of parlor
game. In fact, every major belief system has been
made the basis of mass slaughter at one time or
another, regardless of what its adherents profess.-
There has been a movement afoot that paints religion as the main
culprit behind the vast majority of killings in history. However, the
numbers simply prove this to be false. What we are talking about here
is an objective perspective and not one that is coloured by ideology
that is hostile toward religion in general with Christianity being the
favorite, and entirely unjustifiably, whiping boy. What I am fighting
here is 100% pure propaganda and doing so because people deserve to
know the truth and not be lied to.
Possibly there would be less of that sort of thing if
Christians stopped putting on airs about their virtues,
and admitted they were as bloody as the other packs.
The real problem, Christian or non-Christian, is people
using their unfounded beliefs as an excuse for every
sort of crime.
.
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