On Sat, 1 Nov 2003 15:57:13 +0000 (UTC), "Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote:
On Sat, 1 Nov 2003 15:39:49 +0000 (UTC), Barry OGrady
<god_freee_jones@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, 1 Nov 2003 07:10:42 +0000 (UTC), "Mike Painter" <mdotpainter@att.net> wrote:
"david ford" <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.44L.01.0311010155440.18222-100000@linux3.gl.umbc.edu...
Complex things _that begin to exist_ require something more complex
to design/ create them. God _didn't_ begin to exist.
Life and the universe _did_ begin to exist.
Who says god didn't begin to exist.
The arbitrary decision of an un caused cause is based on nothing other than
"But".
However lets assume we accept the idea that god always existed.
What comes next?
Even the Mule knew there was more and if you can't answer you are just
another parrot of the argument from cause, which incidentally is completely
answered by several of the current big bang theories.
What caused the big bang? Where did the material come from?
Nobody knows what IF ANYTHING caused it.
Nobody knows if there was a big bang, but since causeless events are not
known to exist it makes sense to assume there must have been a cause.
Causeless events are well
known to physics. Including the appearence of particle/antiparticle
pairs.
Your question presupposes it had a cause.
In our limited knowledge there had to be an infinite sequence of causes,
but that doesn't make sense, so the facts are outside our knowledge.
And what material?
The material that supposedly became the universe.
If the universe has a zero sum there needn't have
been anything. Matter plus antimatter plus energy plus anti-energy
(a.k.a. gravity) adds up to zero.
That's a meaningless word salad.
However the big bang is a conclusion not a pre-existing belief. It is
wrong to equate the investigated and understood (after the first
10**-43 seconds) with an unjustified pre-existing religious belief.
Of course, but you need to understand that the big bang is a theory
that seems to support what we observe but which is nowhere near
proven.
-Barry
-Barry
========
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