| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Warnock" |
| Date: |
17 Apr 2004 07:42:06 AM |
| Object: |
Re: When life really begins. |
"Mizzyandrea" <mizzyandrea@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040409193244.13458.00000107@mb-m18.aol.com...
The premise of the abortion advocates is that life begins at
birth.That is perhaps the reason so many otherwise intelligent people
defend a womans right to choose.Unfortunately,life begins at
conception.Were the forces of genocide to study,really study,the
science of human life;they would see that it is not just a matter of
religious convictions.Not all pro-lifers are religious fanatics.Some
of us are just people who like life.
***************
Life began millions of years ago..........and
no human being has the right to use my body against my will.
A fetus sure as hell isn't going to have a right that human beings do not
have.
*** *** What's worrying you? You specifically invited it in, to stay for 9
months, and have the right to a normal birth!
The only time you can break this contract, is if your life is seriously in
danger!
--
**** The fact that the greatest scientists, to their utter dismay, can't
breath life into a dead body or create a perfect animal and breath life into
it - is PROOF of a higher intelligence! ****
Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman,
both of them have committed an abomination: they shall
surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
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| User: "The Zools" |
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| Title: Re: When life really begins. |
18 Apr 2004 06:18:07 PM |
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"Warnock" <warnnock@pop.co.za> wrote in message
news:c5rtv7$abf$4@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman,
both of them have committed an abomination: they shall
surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
================
Aren't you glad we have better morals and laws nowadays than this ancient
Hebrew god had? What benefit did this god have in killing homosexuals? If
he wanted them dead he/she/it shouldn't have created them in the first
place.
The Zools
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: When life really begins. |
17 Apr 2004 01:46:30 PM |
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Warnock <warnnock@pop.co.za> wrote:
"Mizzyandrea" <mizzyandrea@aol.com> wrote in message
no human being has the right to use my body against my will.
A fetus sure as hell isn't going to have a right that human beings do not
have.
*** *** What's worrying you? You specifically invited it in, to stay for 9
months, and have the right to a normal birth!
The only time you can break this contract, is if your life is seriously in
danger!
Claiming that a woman who used contraception and who wants an abortion
"invited" a non-existant fetus to take up residence in her body is
pro-liar insanity.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Warnock" |
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| Title: Re: When life really begins. |
20 Apr 2004 07:59:49 AM |
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"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:c5ru26$2j2$1@bolt.sonic.net...
no human being has the right to use my body against my will.
A fetus sure as hell isn't going to have a right that human beings do
not
have.
*** *** What's worrying you? You specifically invited it in, to stay for
9
months, and have the right to a normal birth!
The only time you can break this contract, is if your life is seriously
in
danger!
Claiming that a woman who used contraception and who wants an abortion
"invited" a non-existant fetus to take up residence in her body is
pro-liar insanity.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
*** *** Relatively few people use rubbers, so its no excuse.
Most adults know what they are doing, having sex, and must take the
consequences!
--
**** The fact that the greatest scientists, to their utter dismay, can't
breath life into a dead body or create a perfect animal and breath life into
it - is PROOF of a higher intelligence! ****
Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman,
both of them have committed an abomination: they shall
surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
.
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| User: "junegill" |
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| Title: Re: When life really begins. |
20 Apr 2004 08:36:47 PM |
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"Warnock" <warnnock@pop.co.za> wrote in message
news:c63ti0$r7l$4@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:c5ru26$2j2$1@bolt.sonic.net...
no human being has the right to use my body against my will.
A fetus sure as hell isn't going to have a right that human beings do
not
have.
*** *** What's worrying you? You specifically invited it in, to stay
for
9
months, and have the right to a normal birth!
No woman can 'specifically invite' a zygote to stay. It's impossible for
her to make herself pregnant, because all the initiative comes from first
the egg and sperm: whether the egg will allow itself to be fertilised or
whether the sperm can penetrate the egg; then from the zygote: whether it
will implant or not; then from the embryo: developing normally or not (more
usually not); and finally the foetus: initiating the start of labour. All
of this is beyond the control of the host woman, or anyone else for that
matter, so she really can't be held responsible for its actions.
The only time you can break this contract, is if your life is seriously
in
danger!
Who says?
Claiming that a woman who used contraception and who wants an abortion
"invited" a non-existant fetus to take up residence in her body is
pro-liar insanity.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
*** *** Relatively few people use rubbers, so its no excuse.
Most adults know what they are doing, having sex, and must take the
consequences!
Must? Again, who says? Most medical staff know what they're doing when
they treat someone with a contagious disease, so if they're unlucky and
happen to catch the disease themselves, they must take the consequences and
not have treatment for it because they knew the risks?
--
June G
# 364
http://uk.geocities.com/junegill@btopenworld.com/webpages/index.html.html
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: When life really begins. |
20 Apr 2004 10:35:43 PM |
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Warnock <warnnock@pop.co.za> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:c5ru26$2j2$1@bolt.sonic.net...
no human being has the right to use my body against my will.
A fetus sure as hell isn't going to have a right that human beings do
not
have.
*** *** What's worrying you? You specifically invited it in, to stay for
9
months, and have the right to a normal birth!
The only time you can break this contract, is if your life is seriously
in
danger!
Claiming that a woman who used contraception and who wants an abortion
"invited" a non-existant fetus to take up residence in her body is
pro-liar insanity.
*** *** Relatively few people use rubbers, so its no excuse.
I made no mention of condoms, lunatic.
Most adults know what they are doing, having sex, and must take the
consequences!
Abortion or childbirth.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Gnos Theos" |
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| Title: Re: When life really begins. |
19 Apr 2004 04:19:19 AM |
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(Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<c5ru26$2j2$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Warnock <warnnock@pop.co.za> wrote:
"Mizzyandrea" <mizzyandrea@aol.com> wrote in message
no human being has the right to use my body against my will.
A fetus sure as hell isn't going to have a right that human beings do not
have.
*** *** What's worrying you? You specifically invited it in, to stay for 9
months, and have the right to a normal birth!
The only time you can break this contract, is if your life is seriously in
danger!
Claiming that a woman who used contraception and who wants an abortion
"invited" a non-existant fetus to take up residence in her body is
pro-liar insanity.
Do you gamble? You realize that when you gamble that if you lose, you must
pay? The woman knowingly (unless she is a complete idiot) gambled with
fairly easy to determine odds. If she "lost" (I don't consider being
pregnant as losing for the woman, but for you I will entertain your notion),
then shouldn't she be responsible for the consequences? If she is so convinced
that she does not want the child, there is always adoption. So many
people spend tens of thousands of dollars on all kinds of fertility drugs
when really they could just stand in front of an abortion clinic, and
convince someone to do adoption instead. Now there is the insanity of
our society, one couple desparately trying to have children, and the
other side willing to kill their child to get rid of it.
At the blackjack table.
"Sir you just lost."
"Uh...Can I abort my hand."
"What?!? No. you need to pay"
"But I don't like the outcome of my wager, isn't there some way I
can welch on my bet?"
"Sir, I am calling security now...."
The really sad part is we are talking about a human life, and not just a
stupid bet. Abortion is a symptom of a promicuous generation that
does not want to deal responsibly with the outcome of their actions. You
are a bunch of spoiled brats in adult bodies wanting "take backs".
Some actions, e.g. sex, have consequences that are not so easily
"took back".
If you want to enjoy the pleasures of sex, fantastic. The one restriction
is that you enjoy it between a husband (man), and wife (woman) in a committed
life long monogamous relationship. That way if you do have children,
you are equipped to deal with it, and enjoy raising your children. Sex and
children are meant to be enjoyed not looked upon as a gamble with a really
big risk. Sex in that setting cannot be enjoyed with abandon, for there is
always guilt, and consequences looming. The promiscuos sex model is a
hinderance to pleasure, not a help.
Why would God tell us to do it this way?
1. Homosexual sex produces no offspring -> human races dies off.
Homosexual sex spreads STDs much faster. >85% of new infections in
Seattle are homosexuals, and they are ~1-2% of population. Homosexuality
causes plaques. This is an established fact. God was being merciful
in stopping the plagues by ordering them to stone homosexuals. We now
know, but are "willingly ignorant" for most are willing to ignore the
evidence, and call anyone opposed a bigot. A bigot is a person who hates
someone based on something outside of the other person's control, e.g race.
Homosexuality is within the person's control, since it is an action.
In fact I don't hate homosexuals, I just wish for them to repent so that
they might receive forgiveness, and enter the kingdom of God.
2. Promiscuity causes the spread of STDs as well. Promiscuity will lead
to epidemics (plagues). Since you run the risk of killing others, your
life is taken as well.
3. The "nuclear family" is the most stable, and best at producing
stable children. It is not perfect, but "best". Pure homosexuality will not
produce a family at all, and promiscuous relationships tend to produce
lower perfoming single parent families. Two loving parents are the best.
It also provides the format for maximizing pleasure in sex. Promicuity
relies on novelty/selfishness to provide enhanced pleasure. Marriage
provides deeper more meaningful pleasure through intimacy, communication,
and exploration. A woman must "re-train" each new partner to what she
likes, rather than having one caring partner that is interested in
satisfying her. If a woman is promiscous, she will likely find her mates
to be selfish men who really have little interest in pleasing her, but
lots of interest in pleasing themselves. Demanding chastity before marriage
is the best hope for a woman to find a man that is interested in pleasing
her rather than just himself.
You must also realise that God's law set stringent guidelines for the
execution of the accused. There had to be two eye witnesses, and the
person went through the town with a crier asking for any evidence in the
case. It was actually fairly difficult to legally stone someone, hence
was not common. The person had to be blatant, and unashamed to be caught
in the act by two witnesses. At that point they would be at risk of
spreading disease. A lot of our rights which we hold as dear come from the
Law of God given to Moses (http://www.moseshand.com).
http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=2441
http://www.gnostheos.org
John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world,
and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
.
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| User: "The Zools" |
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| Title: Re: When life really begins. |
19 Apr 2004 12:00:40 PM |
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"Gnos Theos" <spam@gnostheos.org> wrote in message
news:60586629.0404190119.3ffae30b@posting.google.com...
The really sad part is we are talking about a human life, and not just a
stupid bet. Abortion is a symptom of a promicuous generation that
does not want to deal responsibly with the outcome of their actions.
# What about those in no situation to deal with a baby? Young teens, the
mentally ill ....? Why FORCE them to have it?
You
are a bunch of spoiled brats in adult bodies wanting "take backs".
Some actions, e.g. sex, have consequences that are not so easily
"took back".
# I notice no one mentions the responsibility of the MEN involved - many of
which are not working or simply take off leaving the girl or women to face
the whole process alone.
If you want to enjoy the pleasures of sex, fantastic. The one restriction
is that you enjoy it between a husband (man), and wife (woman) in a
committed
life long monogamous relationship.
# This is religious BS and not realistic. Many women, especially in the
inner cities and poorer areas can't FIND a husband. The men available are
drunks, druggies or worse. Are they supposed to remain sexless all their
lives? How about the anti-choice groups FUNDING free clinics where these
women can get tubal ligations or implants? Where men can get free
vasectomies?
That way if you do have children,
you are equipped to deal with it, and enjoy raising your children.
# What makes you think every married couple even wants children no less
would enjoy raising a few of them? This too is unrealistic thinking. Look
at hope many children in committed (married) relationships are abused,
neglected and even killed by their parents. Forcing a couple to bear
unwanted children isn't going to make them love it. Some couples can't
afford children.
Sex and
children are meant to be enjoyed not looked upon as a gamble with a really
big risk. Sex in that setting cannot be enjoyed with abandon, for there is
always guilt, and consequences looming. The promiscuos sex model is a
hinderance to pleasure, not a help.
# More religious nonsense.......
Why would God tell us to do it this way?
# Why did your god created disease, mental illness, genetic faults,
parasites, predators....?
1. Homosexual sex produces no offspring -> human races dies off.
Homosexual sex spreads STDs much faster. >85% of new infections in
Seattle are homosexuals, and they are ~1-2% of population. Homosexuality
causes plaques. This is an established fact. God was being merciful
in stopping the plagues by ordering them to stone homosexuals.
# What plagues did they cause back then? The locust plagues? The frog
plague? Do you suggest we round up all gay people and stone them to death
to please your violent god?
We now
know, but are "willingly ignorant" for most are willing to ignore the
evidence, and call anyone opposed a bigot. A bigot is a person who hates
someone based on something outside of the other person's control, e.g
race.
Homosexuality is within the person's control, since it is an action.
# Mope religious BS! Gay people can't FORCE themselves to be attracted to
the opposite sex. Get a clue!
Mindless religious BS snipped.........
--
The Zools....
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent
force for atheism ever conceived."
-= Isaac Asimov =-
~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~ }<{{{{{Ò> ~~~~ }<((({ö> ~~~~
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| User: "Warnock" |
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| Title: Re: When life really begins. |
25 Apr 2004 10:18:07 AM |
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"The Zools" <jii@this.net> wrote in message
news:aMadnTm-O7ckmBndRVn-hQ@heartoftn.net...
The really sad part is we are talking about a human life, and not just a
stupid bet. Abortion is a symptom of a promicuous generation that
does not want to deal responsibly with the outcome of their actions.
# What about those in no situation to deal with a baby? Young teens, the
mentally ill ....? Why FORCE them to have it?
lllllllll The above people need care, 24/7. If this happens, there won't be
any unwanted pregnancies!
You
are a bunch of spoiled brats in adult bodies wanting "take backs".
Some actions, e.g. sex, have consequences that are not so easily
"took back".
# I notice no one mentions the responsibility of the MEN involved - many
of
which are not working or simply take off leaving the girl or women to face
the whole process alone.
llllllllll Most men are out working to support their new family - what no
one is mentioning is men's rights, especially as part of the decision of
whether to abort or not!!
If you want to enjoy the pleasures of sex, fantastic. The one
restriction
is that you enjoy it between a husband (man), and wife (woman) in a
committed
life long monogamous relationship.
# This is religious BS and not realistic. Many women, especially in the
inner cities and poorer areas can't FIND a husband. The men available are
drunks, druggies or worse. Are they supposed to remain sexless all their
lives? How about the anti-choice groups FUNDING free clinics where these
women can get tubal ligations or implants? Where men can get free
vasectomies?
lllllllll Society is falling apart because we don't insist on complete
families - a married couple, one man one woman, joined for life!
That way if you do have children,
you are equipped to deal with it, and enjoy raising your children.
# What makes you think every married couple even wants children no less
would enjoy raising a few of them? This too is unrealistic thinking.
Look
at hope many children in committed (married) relationships are abused,
neglected and even killed by their parents. Forcing a couple to bear
unwanted children isn't going to make them love it. Some couples can't
afford children.
llllllllll Nearly all parents love their children, once they are born! I
agree, if you can't afford children or don't want children - don't get
pregnant!
Sex and
children are meant to be enjoyed not looked upon as a gamble with a
really
big risk. Sex in that setting cannot be enjoyed with abandon, for there
is
always guilt, and consequences looming. The promiscuos sex model is a
hinderance to pleasure, not a help.
# More religious nonsense.......
Why would God tell us to do it this way?
# Why did your god created disease, mental illness, genetic faults,
parasites, predators....?
llllllllll Makes the world an interesting place to live!
--
**** The fact that the greatest scientists, to their utter dismay, can't
breath life into a dead body or create a perfect animal and breath life into
it - is PROOF of a higher intelligence! ****
Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman,
both of them have committed an abomination: they shall
surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
.
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| User: "M is for Malapert" |
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| Title: Re: When life really begins. |
19 Apr 2004 12:58:35 PM |
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"Gnos Theos" <spam@gnostheos.org> wrote in message
news:60586629.0404190119.3ffae30b@posting.google.com...
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in message
news:<c5ru26$2j2$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Claiming that a woman who used contraception and who wants an abortion
"invited" a non-existant fetus to take up residence in her body is
pro-liar insanity.
Do you gamble? You realize that when you gamble that if you lose, you must
pay?
You enter into an agreement (contract really) with the casino that if you
lose you will pay.
The woman knowingly (unless she is a complete idiot) gambled with
fairly easy to determine odds.
Nope. She said "Yes" to a sexual relationship with a man (in most cases,
although some "pro-lifers" wouldn't even allow abortion in cases of rape,
which makes the whole "she asked for it" argument irrelevant anyway). She
did not say "Yes" to a gestational relationship with an embryo/fetus. Two
completely different agreements, both of which require separate, ongoing,
explicit consent on the woman's part.
If she "lost" (I don't consider being
pregnant as losing for the woman, but for you I will entertain your
notion),
then shouldn't she be responsible for the consequences?
She is. Whether she has an abortion or continues with the pregnancy, she is
being responsible for the consequences of saying "Yes" to a sexual
relationship with a man.
The really sad part is we are talking about a human life, and not just a
stupid bet. Abortion is a symptom of a promicuous generation that
does not want to deal responsibly with the outcome of their actions.
Abortion rates are lower now than any time in the last 150 years.
If you want to enjoy the pleasures of sex, fantastic. The one restriction
is that you enjoy it between a husband (man), and wife (woman) in a
committed
life long monogamous relationship. That way if you do have children,
you are equipped to deal with it, and enjoy raising your children. Sex and
children are meant to be enjoyed not looked upon as a gamble with a really
big risk. Sex in that setting cannot be enjoyed with abandon, for there is
always guilt, and consequences looming. The promiscuos sex model is a
hinderance to pleasure, not a help.
Are you a promiscuous woman? If not, how do you know?
3. The "nuclear family" is the most stable, and best at producing
stable children. It is not perfect, but "best".
The "nuclear family" has only existed for a couple hundred years, and for
most of that time anywhere from a third to more than half of all "nuclear
families" were broken up by death or desertion anyway. Are you saying that
stable people never existed before the first few decades of the 20th
century? Are you saying that the baby boomers, most of whom were raised in
nuclear families, are more stable than people were 200 years ago, or people
raised in Biblical times, or than kids today? This really makes no sense.
Pure homosexuality will not
produce a family at all, and promiscuous relationships tend to produce
lower perfoming single parent families. Two loving parents are the best.
It also provides the format for maximizing pleasure in sex. Promicuity
relies on novelty/selfishness to provide enhanced pleasure.
Unfortunately for this argument, novelty does enhance pleasure. This is why
all marriages/longterm relationships cool down, sexually speaking. There
are certainly advantages to marriage/longterm relationships, but better sex
is not generally one of them.
Marriage
provides deeper more meaningful pleasure through intimacy, communication,
and exploration. A woman must "re-train" each new partner to what she
likes, rather than having one caring partner that is interested in
satisfying her.
Bwahahahaha. If you aren't a promiscuous woman or haven't slept with any of
them, how do you know? In fact, you don't know, because it simply isn't
true. Most new partners are much more interested in satisfying each other
and diligent and creative about it than long-term partners are.
"Retraining", to the extent it even exists, is part of the exploration that
you tout as being part of marriage, just more exciting.
If a woman is promiscous, she will likely find her mates
to be selfish men who really have little interest in pleasing her, but
lots of interest in pleasing themselves.
Please do tell us how you know all this. You must have tons of experience
to draw on.
Demanding chastity before marriage
is the best hope for a woman to find a man that is interested in pleasing
her rather than just himself.
Well, Nick Lachey said that Jessica Simpson's insistence on waiting was
"erotic". But he also said "I was in a boy band. If I wanted a girl, I had
one."
I'm sure their wedding night was as exciting as any other first time. Let's
see how fabulous their sex life is a few years from now. (In fact, Nick's
already whining and complaining and even begging for it ON CAMERA.)
.
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| User: "Warnock" |
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| Title: Re: When life really begins. |
25 Apr 2004 10:34:40 AM |
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"M is for Malapert" <minxs@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:frUgc.172514$JO3.100888@attbi_s04...
Claiming that a woman who used contraception and who wants an abortion
"invited" a non-existant fetus to take up residence in her body is
pro-liar insanity.
Do you gamble? You realize that when you gamble that if you lose, you
must
pay?
You enter into an agreement (contract really) with the casino that if you
lose you will pay.
llllllllll Most casinos I know of collect first, and we've got to trust them
to pay, when we win!
The woman knowingly (unless she is a complete idiot) gambled with
fairly easy to determine odds.
Nope. She said "Yes" to a sexual relationship with a man (in most cases,
although some "pro-lifers" wouldn't even allow abortion in cases of rape,
which makes the whole "she asked for it" argument irrelevant anyway). She
did not say "Yes" to a gestational relationship with an embryo/fetus. Two
completely different agreements, both of which require separate, ongoing,
explicit consent on the woman's part.
llllllllll By consenting to the first, she knew the risks, and explicitly
agreed to carry to term, if her number was called on the first risk!
If she "lost" (I don't consider being
pregnant as losing for the woman, but for you I will entertain your
notion),
then shouldn't she be responsible for the consequences?
She is. Whether she has an abortion or continues with the pregnancy, she
is
being responsible for the consequences of saying "Yes" to a sexual
relationship with a man.
The really sad part is we are talking about a human life, and not just a
stupid bet. Abortion is a symptom of a promicuous generation that
does not want to deal responsibly with the outcome of their actions.
Abortion rates are lower now than any time in the last 150 years.
llllllllll On a world-wide basis, there is no way that the above statement
can be true!
Pure homosexuality will not
produce a family at all, and promiscuous relationships tend to produce
lower perfoming single parent families. Two loving parents are the best.
It also provides the format for maximizing pleasure in sex. Promicuity
relies on novelty/selfishness to provide enhanced pleasure.
llllllllll Fags need to be irradicated from our society, now!
Demanding chastity before marriage
is the best hope for a woman to find a man that is interested in
pleasing
her rather than just himself.
llllllllll Both parties should be 'virgins', before a marriage - its the
right thing to do!
--
**** The fact that the greatest scientists, to their utter dismay, can't
breath life into a dead body or create a perfect animal and breath life into
it - is PROOF of a higher intelligence! ****
Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman,
both of them have committed an abomination: they shall
surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
.
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| User: "Erin K." |
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| Title: Re: When life really begins. |
20 Apr 2004 08:39:15 AM |
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(Gnos Theos) wrote in message news:<60586629.0404190119.3ffae30b@posting.google.com>...
<snip>
If you want to enjoy the pleasures of sex, fantastic. The one restriction
is that you enjoy it between a husband (man), and wife (woman) in a committed
life long monogamous relationship. That way if you do have children,
you are equipped to deal with it, and enjoy raising your children.
Are you saying that marriage automatically makes one equipped to have
and raise children?
.
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| User: "Krusty" |
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| Title: Re: When life really begins. |
19 Apr 2004 01:20:09 PM |
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(Gnos Theos) wrote in message news:<60586629.0404190119.3ffae30b@posting.google.com>...
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<c5ru26$2j2$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Warnock <warnnock@pop.co.za> wrote:
"Mizzyandrea" <mizzyandrea@aol.com> wrote in message
no human being has the right to use my body against my will.
A fetus sure as hell isn't going to have a right that human beings do not
have.
*** *** What's worrying you? You specifically invited it in, to stay for 9
months, and have the right to a normal birth!
The only time you can break this contract, is if your life is seriously in
danger!
Claiming that a woman who used contraception and who wants an abortion
"invited" a non-existant fetus to take up residence in her body is
pro-liar insanity.
Do you gamble? You realize that when you gamble that if you lose, you must
pay?
Just the same way you gamble when you drive down the road. With your
"reasoning", if some car smashes into you and you're bleeding on the side
of the road, then dont expect medical attention! It was your *choice*, your
*gamble*. You lose, you pay....right??
(maybe now you understand the foolishness of that analogy)
If she is so convinced
that she does not want the child, there is always adoption.
And if you dont feel like taking the chance of dying in your car,
you can take public transportation.
The really sad part is we are talking about a human life, and not just a
stupid bet.
The really, really sad part is you dont understand you're being hypocritical.
Abortion is a symptom of a promicuous generation that
does not want to deal responsibly
Ahh...the anti-sex agenda....right on time!
If you want to enjoy the pleasures of sex, fantastic.
Yeah, maybe you should try it sometime...
The one restriction
is that you enjoy it between a husband (man), and wife (woman) in a committed
life long monogamous relationship.
Blow it out your *****, control freak.
Why would God tell us to do it this way?
Several Biblical arguments in support of abortion:
First, the Bible proclaims that stillbirth is preferable to an
unproductive life as in the typical "If a...soul be not filled with
good...an untimely birth is better than he..."(Eccl 6:3-4) and
"...let every one of them pass away: like the untimely birth of
a woman, that they may not see the sun."(Psalms 58:8). And
the despondent prophet regrets that "...the Lord slew me not
from the womb; or that my mother might have been my grave,
and her womb to always be great with me."(Jeremiah 20:17).
Second, the fact that a fetus is valued only as property and
not as a person is illustrated in Exodus 21:22: "If men strive
and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her,
and yet no mischief follow; he shall be surely punished...and
he shall pay as the judges determine." Here the loss of the fetus
is represented as a simple property loss resulting in a civil fine
for the loss. (NOTE: The next verse mentioning "...life for
life..." only applies to any further mischief that then follows,
and not to the loss of the woman's "fruit".)
Third, the Bible contains the 'trial by ordeal' procedure for
determining whether a pregnant wife had been unfaithful. In
substance, the story has the suspicious husband delivering the
poor woman before the priests to engage in a test of her faith-
fulness. The priest mixes a potion, applies a curse, and requires
the woman drink the concoction. If guilty, her "...belly shall
swell and her thigh shall fall out...". If innocent, she shall be
free and "...bear seed..."(Numbers 5:11-31). In effect, her fetus
will abort if she had been unfaithful. The resultant abortion is
neither offensive nor punishable. Instead it is a divinely
authorized process to abort the fetus that resulted from the
suspected adultery. Absolutely no sanctity is placed upon
nor granted the fetus.
Fourth, the fact that God supposedly created mankind in His
own image (Genesis 2:7), and then is instrumental in permitting
almost one-third of all conceived human fetus' to be spontane-
ously aborted during the 1st. tri-mester (ref. "Williams Obstetrics");
offers a measure of the importance that He places on fetuses
before they take their first "breath-of-life".
Fifth, the Bible clearly instructs it's brotherhood to ONLY count
children over one month old as part of the "faith
community" (Numbers 3:15-50, 26:62, Leviticus 27:1-6). NEITHER
fetuses NOR new-borns are considered viable human beings.
Sixth, the Bible continually authorizes, tolerates, justifies, and
encourages the killing of un-born and newly-born children as
in "King Menehem...smote Tiphsah, and all that were within,
and the coasts thereof...and did dash their children, and rip up
their women with child.(2 kings 8:12). And revenge against
Israel's enemies includes: "Happy shall he be, that taketh and
dasheth thy little ones against the stones."(Psalms 137:9, Nahum
3:10, Ezekiel 9:5-6) and "...have no pity on the fruit of the womb;
their eye shall not spare children."(Isaiah 13:16-18) and "...their
infants shall be dashed in pieces..."(Hosea 13:16, Deuteronomy
7:2, 20:16-17), and etc., etc., etc.
John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world,
and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Stop being evil.
.
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| User: "shanny406" |
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| Title: Re: When life really begins. |
19 Apr 2004 10:27:39 PM |
|
|
(Krusty) wrote in message news:<e4f67237.0404191020.2b47be3d@posting.google.com>...
spam@gnostheos.org (Gnos Theos) wrote in message news:<60586629.0404190119.3ffae30b@posting.google.com>...
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<c5ru26$2j2$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Warnock <warnnock@pop.co.za> wrote:
"Mizzyandrea" <mizzyandrea@aol.com> wrote in message
no human being has the right to use my body against my will.
A fetus sure as hell isn't going to have a right that human beings do not
have.
shanny406<shanny406@hotmail.com> wrote:
That is the sickest comment I have ever heard. A fetus does not
have the right to live in your body against your will. People give up
that right when they choose to have sex and most of the time it is
unprotected. Even if the sex is protected, there is still the risk. I
can not believe that anyone would say that an innocent baby does not
have the right to grow or live. I wish that people would grow up and
live up to their responsibilities. I think that abortion should be
used for life or death situations. Abortion is being used more and
more as a form of birth control which is horrible. I wish that people
would realize what they are doing to these innocent little babies who
did not ask to be conceived.
*** *** What's worrying you? You specifically invited it in, to stay for 9
months, and have the right to a normal birth!
The only time you can break this contract, is if your life is seriously in
danger!
Claiming that a woman who used contraception and who wants an abortion
"invited" a non-existant fetus to take up residence in her body is
pro-liar insanity.
Do you gamble? You realize that when you gamble that if you lose, you must
pay?
Just the same way you gamble when you drive down the road. With your
"reasoning", if some car smashes into you and you're bleeding on the side
of the road, then dont expect medical attention! It was your *choice*, your
*gamble*. You lose, you pay....right??
(maybe now you understand the foolishness of that analogy)
If she is so convinced
that she does not want the child, there is always adoption.
And if you dont feel like taking the chance of dying in your car,
you can take public transportation.
The really sad part is we are talking about a human life, and not just a
stupid bet.
The really, really sad part is you dont understand you're being hypocritical.
Abortion is a symptom of a promicuous generation that
does not want to deal responsibly
Ahh...the anti-sex agenda....right on time!
If you want to enjoy the pleasures of sex, fantastic.
Yeah, maybe you should try it sometime...
The one restriction
is that you enjoy it between a husband (man), and wife (woman) in a committed
life long monogamous relationship.
Blow it out your *****, control freak.
Why would God tell us to do it this way?
Several Biblical arguments in support of abortion:
First, the Bible proclaims that stillbirth is preferable to an
unproductive life as in the typical "If a...soul be not filled with
good...an untimely birth is better than he..."(Eccl 6:3-4) and
"...let every one of them pass away: like the untimely birth of
a woman, that they may not see the sun."(Psalms 58:8). And
the despondent prophet regrets that "...the Lord slew me not
from the womb; or that my mother might have been my grave,
and her womb to always be great with me."(Jeremiah 20:17).
Second, the fact that a fetus is valued only as property and
not as a person is illustrated in Exodus 21:22: "If men strive
and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her,
and yet no mischief follow; he shall be surely punished...and
he shall pay as the judges determine." Here the loss of the fetus
is represented as a simple property loss resulting in a civil fine
for the loss. (NOTE: The next verse mentioning "...life for
life..." only applies to any further mischief that then follows,
and not to the loss of the woman's "fruit".)
Third, the Bible contains the 'trial by ordeal' procedure for
determining whether a pregnant wife had been unfaithful. In
substance, the story has the suspicious husband delivering the
poor woman before the priests to engage in a test of her faith-
fulness. The priest mixes a potion, applies a curse, and requires
the woman drink the concoction. If guilty, her "...belly shall
swell and her thigh shall fall out...". If innocent, she shall be
free and "...bear seed..."(Numbers 5:11-31). In effect, her fetus
will abort if she had been unfaithful. The resultant abortion is
neither offensive nor punishable. Instead it is a divinely
authorized process to abort the fetus that resulted from the
suspected adultery. Absolutely no sanctity is placed upon
nor granted the fetus.
Fourth, the fact that God supposedly created mankind in His
own image (Genesis 2:7), and then is instrumental in permitting
almost one-third of all conceived human fetus' to be spontane-
ously aborted during the 1st. tri-mester (ref. "Williams Obstetrics");
offers a measure of the importance that He places on fetuses
before they take their first "breath-of-life".
Fifth, the Bible clearly instructs it's brotherhood to ONLY count
children over one month old as part of the "faith
community" (Numbers 3:15-50, 26:62, Leviticus 27:1-6). NEITHER
fetuses NOR new-borns are considered viable human beings.
Sixth, the Bible continually authorizes, tolerates, justifies, and
encourages the killing of un-born and newly-born children as
in "King Menehem...smote Tiphsah, and all that were within,
and the coasts thereof...and did dash their children, and rip up
their women with child.(2 kings 8:12). And revenge against
Israel's enemies includes: "Happy shall he be, that taketh and
dasheth thy little ones against the stones."(Psalms 137:9, Nahum
3:10, Ezekiel 9:5-6) and "...have no pity on the fruit of the womb;
their eye shall not spare children."(Isaiah 13:16-18) and "...their
infants shall be dashed in pieces..."(Hosea 13:16, Deuteronomy
7:2, 20:16-17), and etc., etc., etc.
John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world,
and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Stop being evil.
.
|
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: When life really begins. |
20 Apr 2004 05:55:52 AM |
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On 19 Apr 2004 20:27:39 -0700, (shanny406) in
alt.abortion with message-id
<daeba3e4.0404191927.68ab9ef7@posting.google.com> wrote:
That is the sickest comment I have ever heard. A fetus does not
have the right to live in your body against your will.
A fetus has no rights at all.
People give up
that right when they choose to have sex
Oh? I don't recall any conditions attached any time I had sex. Where
can I find this release?
and most of the time it is
unprotected.
our proof of this is what?
Even if the sex is protected, there is still the risk
Now you are backing off.
Walking down the street has risk attached.
I
can not believe that anyone would say that an innocent baby does not
have the right to grow or live.
No baby is involved, and until birth no rights exist.
I wish that people would grow up and
live up to their responsibilities.
Since a simple medical procedure exists to terminate an unwanted
condition there is no reason taking advantage of it is not living up
to responsibilities.
I think that abortion should be
used for life or death situations.
Neither history or the law agrees with you.
Abortion is being used more and
more as a form of birth control which is horrible.
OK. Then don't have one.
I wish that people
would realize what they are doing to these innocent little babies who
did not ask to be conceived.
Once again pregnant women are insulted by being told they don;t know
what they are doing. They know exactly what they are doing, and make
their own decisions whether you like it or not.
.
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| User: "H,R.Gruemm" |
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| Title: Re: When life really begins. |
19 Apr 2004 12:07:32 PM |
|
|
(Gnos Theos) wrote in message news:<60586629.0404190119.3ffae30b@posting.google.com>...
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<c5ru26$2j2$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Warnock <warnnock@pop.co.za> wrote:
"Mizzyandrea" <mizzyandrea@aol.com> wrote in message
no human being has the right to use my body against my will.
A fetus sure as hell isn't going to have a right that human beings do not
have.
*** *** What's worrying you? You specifically invited it in, to stay for 9
months, and have the right to a normal birth!
The only time you can break this contract, is if your life is seriously in
danger!
Claiming that a woman who used contraception and who wants an abortion
"invited" a non-existant fetus to take up residence in her body is
pro-liar insanity.
Do you gamble? You realize that when you gamble that if you lose, you must
pay? The woman knowingly (unless she is a complete idiot) gambled with
fairly easy to determine odds. If she "lost" (I don't consider being
pregnant as losing for the woman, but for you I will entertain your notion),
then shouldn't she be responsible for the consequences ?
Usually, responsibility requires some illegality, negligence etc. But
even if she is responsible for the consequences, what are those
consequences ? The *existence* of an embryo. This responsibility is
discharged by an early abortion, since the status quo ante has been
restored.
By a rhetoric sleight-of-hand (aka equivocation), the PL side wants to
transform responsibility for the existence of an embryo into
responsibility for the welfare of this embryo. Two quite different
things.
? If she is so convinced
that she does not want the child, there is always adoption. So many
people spend tens of thousands of dollars on all kinds of fertility drugs
when really they could just stand in front of an abortion clinic, and
convince someone to do adoption instead. Now there is the insanity of
our society, one couple desparately trying to have children, and the
other side willing to kill their child to get rid of it.
At the blackjack table.
"Sir you just lost."
"Uh...Can I abort my hand."
"What?!? No. you need to pay"
"But I don't like the outcome of my wager, isn't there some way I
can welch on my bet?"
"Sir, I am calling security now...."
The really sad part is we are talking about a human life, and not just a
stupid bet. Abortion is a symptom of a promicuous generation that
does not want to deal responsibly with the outcome of their actions.
Who are you to define what is and what isn't a responsible way of
dealing with consequences ?
You
are a bunch of spoiled brats in adult bodies wanting "take backs".
Some actions, e.g. sex, have consequences that are not so easily
"took back".
Quite false. An early abortion completely restores the status quo.
If you want to enjoy the pleasures of sex, fantastic. The one restriction
is that you enjoy it between a husband (man), and wife (woman) in a committed
life long monogamous relationship.
Who are you to dictate to others under which conditions they are
allowed to have sex ?
That way if you do have children,
you are equipped to deal with it, and enjoy raising your children. Sex and
children are meant to be enjoyed not looked upon as a gamble with a really
big risk. Sex in that setting cannot be enjoyed with abandon, for there is
always guilt, and consequences looming. The promiscuos sex model is a
hinderance to pleasure, not a help.
Please speak for yourself.
Why would God tell us to do it this way?
God who ?
1. Homosexual sex produces no offspring -> human races dies off.
Homosexual sex spreads STDs much faster. >85% of new infections in
Seattle are homosexuals, and they are ~1-2% of population. Homosexuality
causes plaques.
Only if homosexuals don't brush their teeth! :)
This is an established fact.
In which universe ? Not in ours.
God was being merciful
in stopping the plagues by ordering them to stone homosexuals. We now
know, but are "willingly ignorant" for most are willing to ignore the
evidence, and call anyone opposed a bigot. A bigot is a person who hates
someone based on something outside of the other person's control, e.g race.
Or based on something inside of the other person's control, e.g.
religion.
Homosexuality is within the person's control, since it is an action.
In fact I don't hate homosexuals, I just wish for them to repent so that
they might receive forgiveness, and enter the kingdom of God.
2. Promiscuity causes the spread of STDs as well. Promiscuity will lead
to epidemics (plagues). Since you run the risk of killing others, your
life is taken as well.
3. The "nuclear family" is the most stable, and best at producing
stable children. It is not perfect, but "best". Pure homosexuality will not
produce a family at all, and promiscuous relationships tend to produce
lower perfoming single parent families.
That's why we have birth control, and if it fails, abortion.
Two loving parents are the best.
It also provides the format for maximizing pleasure in sex. Promicuity
relies on novelty/selfishness to provide enhanced pleasure. Marriage
provides deeper more meaningful pleasure through intimacy, communication,
and exploration. A woman must "re-train" each new partner to what she
likes, rather than having one caring partner that is interested in
satisfying her. If a woman is promiscous, she will likely find her mates
to be selfish men who really have little interest in pleasing her, but
lots of interest in pleasing themselves. Demanding chastity before marriage
is the best hope for a woman to find a man that is interested in pleasing
her rather than just himself.
Please speak for yourself.
Regards,
HRG.
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: When life really begins. |
19 Apr 2004 10:32:36 PM |
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|
Gnos Theos <spam@gnostheos.org> wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<c5ru26$2j2$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Warnock <warnnock@pop.co.za> wrote:
"Mizzyandrea" <mizzyandrea@aol.com> wrote in message
no human being has the right to use my body against my will.
A fetus sure as hell isn't going to have a right that human beings do not
have.
*** *** What's worrying you? You specifically invited it in, to stay for 9
months, and have the right to a normal birth!
The only time you can break this contract, is if your life is seriously in
danger!
Claiming that a woman who used contraception and who wants an abortion
"invited" a non-existant fetus to take up residence in her body is
pro-liar insanity.
Do you gamble? You realize that when you gamble that if you lose, you must
pay?
That's part of the contract.
The woman knowingly (unless she is a complete idiot) gambled with
fairly easy to determine odds.
And how much money should she pay? I figure $400 for the cost of an
abortion about convers it.
If she "lost" (I don't consider being
pregnant as losing for the woman, but for you I will entertain your notion),
then shouldn't she be responsible for the consequences?
What makes you think that she isn't?
If she is so convinced
that she does not want the child, there is always adoption.
There's also abortion.
So many
people spend tens of thousands of dollars on all kinds of fertility drugs
when really they could just stand in front of an abortion clinic, and
convince someone to do adoption instead.
You're right, but abortion opponents don't care about children. They
care about punishing women.
Now there is the insanity of
our society,
Your society, perhaps.
one couple desparately trying to have children, and the
other side willing to kill their child to get rid of it.
And you willing to kill people in order to save people.
[..]
The really sad part is we are talking about a human life, and not just a
stupid bet.
You don't give a ***** about human life. If you did then YOU would be
in front of a clinic offering women money.
Abortion is a symptom of a promicuous generation that
And there is the usual anti-sex anti-woman prudery. It's all about
punishing and controlling female sexuality.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: When life really begins. |
19 Apr 2004 06:45:14 AM |
|
|
On 19 Apr 2004 02:19:19 -0700, (Gnos Theos) in
alt.abortion with message-id
<60586629.0404190119.3ffae30b@posting.google.com> wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<c5ru26$2j2$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Warnock <warnnock@pop.co.za> wrote:
"Mizzyandrea" < > wrote in message
no human being has the right to use my body against my will.
A fetus sure as hell isn't going to have a right that human beings do not
have.
*** *** What's worrying you? You specifically invited it in, to stay for 9
months, and have the right to a normal birth!
The only time you can break this contract, is if your life is seriously in
danger!
Claiming that a woman who used contraception and who wants an abortion
"invited" a non-existant fetus to take up residence in her body is
pro-liar insanity.
Do you gamble? You realize that when you gamble that if you lose, you must
pay? The woman knowingly (unless she is a complete idiot) gambled with
fairly easy to determine odds. If she "lost" (I don't consider being
pregnant as losing for the woman, but for you I will entertain your notion),
then shouldn't she be responsible for the consequences?
Do you drive? Do you realize that when you drive if you have an
accident you must pay? I suppose you don't believe in insurance. Or
medical treatment, since if whatever you do has any portion of risk
attached you should suffer the full consequences without recourse to
anything that would reduce or eliminate the results of that risk.
If she is so convinced
that she does not want the child, there is always adoption.
Suppose the woman does not wish to subject her body to the stress and
risks of a full term pregnancy? Not to mention the impact on her life
for most of a year.
So many
people spend tens of thousands of dollars on all kinds of fertility drugs
when really they could just stand in front of an abortion clinic, and
convince someone to do adoption instead.
Now you are making personal decisions for other people. Do you have a
Napoleon complex?
Now there is the insanity of
our society, one couple desparately trying to have children, and the
other side willing to kill their child to get rid of it.
It's called 'personal freedom'. One couple is looking for a smaller
house while another is looking for a bigger house.
The really sad part is we are talking about a human life, and not just a
stupid bet. Abortion is a symptom of a promicuous generation that
does not want to deal responsibly with the outcome of their actions.
Nonsense. Abortion in one form or another has been around throughout
history. It has just now become safe and simple.
You
are a bunch of spoiled brats in adult bodies wanting "take backs".
Some actions, e.g. sex, have consequences that are not so easily
"took back".
You can have whatever opinion you like - that does dot matter to
anyone else.
If you want to enjoy the pleasures of sex, fantastic. The one restriction
is that you enjoy it between a husband (man), and wife (woman) in a committed
life long monogamous relationship.
I was not aware such a law existed. In fact, I thought those laws had
pretty much been repealed.
That way if you do have children,
you are equipped to deal with it, and enjoy raising your children.
You are supposing married couples all enjoy raising their children.
Facts do not support this.
Facts do support the large number of abortions selected by married
women who find themselves unexpectedly pregnant.
How do you reconcile this with your comment?
Sex and
children are meant to be enjoyed not looked upon as a gamble with a really
big risk. Sex in that setting cannot be enjoyed with abandon, for there is
always guilt, and consequences looming.
Strange. The anti-choice nuts have been trying to prove this for
years with actual surveys but so far have not been very successful.
Data From Long-Term Study Demonstrate That Even Highly
Religious Women are not at Significantly Greater Risk of
Psychological Distress Because They Had an Abortion Even for
Devout Catholic Women, The Best Predictor of Well-Being
After Abortion is the Woman's Well-Being Before Abortion
------------------------------------------------------------
WASHINGTON -- Social scientists have known for years that
the availability of legal abortion is not associated with
long-term psychological distress in women who use it. An
eight-year longitudinal study involving nearly 5,300 young
women published in 1992 found that the best predictor of
well-being in women over the course of the study was their
well-being at the start of the study, not their income
level, job status, level of education or martial status or -
- quite specifically -- whether they had had an abortion.
Now a new follow-up study, published in the current edition
of the American Psychological Association's (APA) journal
Professional Psychology: Research and Practice finds that
the same conclusion still applies regardless of religious or
racial differences.
The study, by psychologists Nancy Felipe Russo, Ph.D., of
Arizona State University and Amy J. Dabul, Ph.D., of Phoenix
College, is further analysis of data gathered from a
national sample of 5,295 women aged 14 to 24 (in 1979) who
were interviewed annually from 1979 to 1987. The women's
well-being was assessed using a reliable and valid measure
of self-esteem in 1980 and again in 1987. This time, in
addition to looking at variables such as income, employment
and education, the researchers looked at race and religious
beliefs and practices to see if they had any effect on
women's well-being after having had an abortion.
They found that, overall, White women and Black women did
not differ statistically on measures of self-esteem.
Approximately the same proportion of Black women and White
women reported having had an abortion (14.6% and 14.9%
respectively), but Black women had more abortions than White
women and Black women who had abortions were more likely
than White women to be mothers (86% vs 57%). Nonetheless,
having had an abortion (or more than one) had no relation
with self-esteem in either group: 'For both Black women and
White women, prior self-esteem was the biggest predictor of
subsequent self-esteem,' the authors note. The same held
true when they compared Black and White women who reported a
religious affiliation and high or low church attendance with
those who were not religious.
Since the type of religion to which women who had an
abortion belonged also did not make a difference in their
post-abortion well-being, the researchers focused
specifically on Catholic versus non-Catholic women, given
that the Catholic Church 'has a consistent antiabortion
position that is vigorously promoted.'
Their findings in this analysis were more complex: non-
Catholic women who had high church attendance and one
abortion had the highest self-esteem; non-Catholic women who
had low church attendance and repeat abortions had the
lowest self-esteem. But at the same time, high-church-
attendance non-Catholic women with one abortion had
significantly higher self-esteem than did low-church-
attendance Catholic women with no abortions. 'Although
highly religious Catholic women were slightly more likely to
exhibit postabortion psychological distress than other
women,' the researchers say, 'this fact is explained by
lower pre-existing well-being.'
Given these findings, the researchers ask: 'Do highly
distressed women who have had an abortion exist?' And, they
answer: 'Yes. But their distress is likely to be rooted in
events and conditions that existed before they became
pregnant. Legal abortion per se does not increase a woman's
risk of negative well-being.'
Article: 'The Relationship of Abortion to Well-Being: Do
Race and Religion Make a Difference?' by Nancy Felipe Russo,
Ph.D., Arizona State University, and Amy J. Dabul, Ph.D.,
Phoenix College, in Professional Psychology: Research and
Practice, Vol. 28, No. 1.
------------------------------------------------------------
The American Psychological Association
(APA), in Washington, DC, is the largest scientific and
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Originally posted by Mizzyandrea
The promiscuos sex model is a
hinderance to pleasure, not a help.
Why would God tell us to do it this way?
Which god? Please prove your answer.
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| User: "Paul Anderson" |
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| Title: Re: When life really begins. |
19 Apr 2004 11:06:21 AM |
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On 19 Apr 2004 02:19:19 -0700, (Gnos Theos) wrote:
.....
Do you gamble? You realize that when you gamble that if you lose, you must
pay? The woman knowingly (unless she is a complete idiot) gambled with
fairly easy to determine odds. If she "lost" (I don't consider being
pregnant as losing for the woman, but for you I will entertain your notion),
then shouldn't she be responsible for the consequences?
The old gambled so must endure the result spew. Sort of like when you
go skiing you gamble that you might fall and break a leg. If you do
so you are responsible for breaking your leg -- it is not an
'accident'. You are responsible for the consequences -- a permanently
useless limb. You are not allowed to set the limb. You are not
allowed to have medical insurance to cover the costs. Which is
*****. You are allowed to correct a medical condition that you get
as a consequence of an action of yours -- set bones you did not intend
to break, abort pregnancies you did not intend to start. If a woman
did not intend to become pregnant then the *responsible* thing to do
is to abort that pregnancy.
As a Pro-Choice person I am quite willing to allow a woman to
irresponsibily *not* abort an unintended pregnancy.
If she is so convinced
that she does not want the child, there is always adoption.
If she does not want a child, *why* should she suffer grave bodily
harm and face a serious risk to her health and life?
So many
people spend tens of thousands of dollars on all kinds of fertility drugs
when really they could just stand in front of an abortion clinic, and
convince someone to do adoption instead.
People spend the money because they do not want *a child* -- they want
*their child*. They want a child of their own, with their genetics,
a little independent piece of themselves to continue their life and to
give them a little immortality.
Now there is the insanity of
our society, one couple desparately trying to have children, and the
other side willing to kill their child to get rid of it.
Pro-Lifer wail on and on about these poor childless couples. What do
they do about it? They open up Abortion Alternative clinics where
they lie to young pregnant women in hopes that they may obtain her
child, for which they give her nothing while taking in tens of
thousands of dollars from the adoptive parents.
You would think that *if* Pro-Lifers actually cared about these
childless couples that they would do what they ask of others. Yet I
have never heard of even onea Pro-Life couple who busily churn out a
baby a year to provide these childless couples with the children they
desire. Why not? Could it be that the Pro-Lifers lie about the harm
a pregnancy causes? Could it be that giving your children away is not
a good thing?
.....
The really sad part is we are talking about a human life.....
Yes -- which is why I see no reason to allow that human life the right
to determine whether or not she wishes to remain pregnant and whether
or no she is willing to suffer the guaranteed harm and serious risks
to her health and life in order to bring a child of her own into this
world.
Abortion is a symptom of a promicuous generation that
does not want to deal responsibly with the outcome of their actions.
Abortion has been practiced for several thousands of years. The
abortion rate has been declining for many decades. The promicuous
generation you are talking about was in the past.
....
If you want to enjoy the pleasures of sex, fantastic. The one restriction
is that you enjoy it between a husband (man), and wife (woman) in a committed
life long monogamous relationship.....
This would be something that has never before been imposed upon
anyone. Why would you demand this of the current generation?
That way if you do have children,
you are equipped to deal with it, and enjoy raising your children.
If we were to require that a person be in a life long monogamous
relationship before they were allowed to have children then *no one*
would ever have children. We are not Gods to know the future.
Sex and
children are meant to be enjoyed not looked upon as a gamble with a really
big risk. Sex in that setting cannot be enjoyed with abandon, for there is
always guilt, and consequences looming. The promiscuos sex model is a
hinderance to pleasure, not a help.
Yet all of our ancestors managed quite well enjoying promiscous sex.
It is nothing new, and it is being practiced less and less -- mainly,
IMO, because women are realizing that they do not need a man in their
lives..
Why would God tell us to do it this way?
God never did. Why do you lie about God's Word?
....
3. The "nuclear family" is the most stable, and best at producing
stable children. It is not perfect, but "best".
The 'nuclear family' of the 20th century, mom and dad raising their
children, is an aberration. The family for most of human history was
the extended family -- mom, dad, aunts, uncles, cousins, grand parents
*all* helping to raise the children. The "nuclear family" is not
"best" since it denies parents the help they need in raising children.
....
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| User: "Warnock" |
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| Title: Re: When life really begins. |
24 Apr 2004 11:10:27 AM |
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"Paul Anderson" <elcoyote@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:4083f293.287267@news.sf.sbcglobal.net...
If you want to enjoy the pleasures of sex, fantastic. The one restriction
is that you enjoy it between a husband (man), and wife (woman) in a
committed
life long monogamous relationship.....
This would be something that has never before been imposed upon
anyone. Why would you demand this of the current generation?
*** *** On the contrary, this is the first generation that has demanded such
a free sexual state! Up till the 1960's whores were available, but
definately frowned upon!
Homosexuals were the lowest form of scum - only recently has it changed.
That way if you do have children,
you are equipped to deal with it, and enjoy raising your children.
If we were to require that a person be in a life long monogamous
relationship before they were allowed to have children then *no one*
would ever have children. We are not Gods to know the future.
*** *** A fairly large percentage of the world's population believe in one
man, one woman - definately after they have settled into their twenties.
Why would God tell us to do it this way?
God never did. Why do you lie about God's Word?
*** *** Well, at least you admit that there is a God!
--
**** The fact that the greatest scientists, to their utter dismay, can't
breath life into a dead body or create a perfect animal and breath life into
it - is PROOF of a higher intelligence! ****
Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman,
both of them have committed an abomination: they shall
surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
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| User: "Paul Anderson" |
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| Title: Re: When life really begins. |
24 Apr 2004 03:29:15 PM |
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On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 18:10:27 +0200, "Warnock" <warnnock@pop.co.za>
wrote:
"Paul Anderson" <elcoyote@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:4083f293.287267@news.sf.sbcglobal.net...
If you want to enjoy the pleasures of sex, fantastic. The one restriction
is that you enjoy it between a husband (man), and wife (woman) in a
committed
life long monogamous relationship.....
This would be something that has never before been imposed upon
anyone. Why would you demand this of the current generation?
*** *** On the contrary, this is the first generation that has demanded such
a free sexual state! Up till the 1960's whores were available, but
definately frowned upon!
Homosexuals were the lowest form of scum - only recently has it changed.
You prove that you do not know history -- prostitution is the world's
oldest profession and has not been frowned upon for most of history.
Homosexuals have been honored by many societies throughout history.
Not to mention that what you wrote has *nothing* to do with
restricting sex to a husband-wife life-long relationship. Premaritial
sex has been practiced as long as marriage existed. In America, from
colonial times to present, roughly a quarter of all brides have been
pregnant at marriage. Extra-marital sex has also been practiced for
as long as marriage existed -- why do you think a thing such as a
chastity belt was ever invented?
Cut the ***** and address *why* you would expect this generation to
do something that no generation in history evee has?
That way if you do have children,
you are equipped to deal with it, and enjoy raising your children.
If we were to require that a person be in a life long monogamous
relationship before they were allowed to have children then *no one*
would ever have children. We are not Gods to know the future.
*** *** A fairly large percentage of the world's population believe in one
man, one woman - definately after they have settled into their twenties.
Again you do not address what I posted. We are not Gods to know what
relationship will evolve to in a decade or so. Spousal abandonment
and divorce has also been with us as long as marriage has.
Why would God tell us to do it this way?
God never did. Why do you lie about God's Word?
*** *** Well, at least you admit that there is a God!
I did not admit that there is a God. Why do you lie about God's Word?
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| User: "MyTwoAngels" |
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| Title: Re: When life really begins. |
19 Apr 2004 04:25:01 AM |
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On 19 Apr 2004 02:19:19 -0700, (Gnos Theos) wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<c5ru26$2j2$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Warnock <warnnock@pop.co.za> wrote:
"Mizzyandrea" <mizzyandrea@aol.com> wrote in message
no human being has the right to use my body against my will.
A fetus sure as hell isn't going to have a right that human beings do not
have.
*** *** What's worrying you? You specifically invited it in, to stay for 9
months, and have the right to a normal birth!
The only time you can break this contract, is if your life is seriously in
danger!
Claiming that a woman who used contraception and who wants an abortion
"invited" a non-existant fetus to take up residence in her body is
pro-liar insanity.
Do you gamble? You realize that when you gamble that if you lose, you must
pay? The woman knowingly...
The man knowingly...
The really sad part is we are talking about a human life,
....yes, the human life you forget is carrying it.
Yeah, but to you, neither of the parties who
If you want to enjoy the pleasures of sex, fantastic. The one restriction
is that you enjoy it between a husband (man), and wife (woman) in a committed
life long monogamous relationship.
Just who the ***** are you to tell adult people what to do in the
confines of their bedroom with their respective, consenting adult
partners, eh?
Why would God tell us to do it this way?
God didn't tell you *****.
You must also realise that God's law set...
....by men are meaningless.
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| User: "Warnock" |
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| Title: Re: When life really begins. |
24 Apr 2004 10:55:49 AM |
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"MyTwoAngels" <krisblakemy2babies@spamu.xmsg.com> wrote in message
news:ti6780p2lhonkf4jmjhhfbgfhjceo6ls0f@4ax.com...
no human being has the right to use my body against my will.
A fetus sure as hell isn't going to have a right that human beings
do not
have.
*** *** What's worrying you? You specifically invited it in, to stay
for 9
months, and have the right to a normal birth!
The only time you can break this contract, is if your life is
seriously in
danger!
Claiming that a woman who used contraception and who wants an abortion
"invited" a non-existant fetus to take up residence in her body is
pro-liar insanity.
Do you gamble? You realize that when you gamble that if you lose, you
must
pay? The woman knowingly...
The man knowingly...
The really sad part is we are talking about a human life,
...yes, the human life you forget is carrying it.
Yeah, but to you, neither of the parties who
If you want to enjoy the pleasures of sex, fantastic. The one restriction
is that you enjoy it between a husband (man), and wife (woman) in a
committed
life long monogamous relationship.
Just who the ***** are you to tell adult people what to do in the
confines of their bedroom with their respective, consenting adult
partners, eh?
Why would God tell us to do it this way?
God didn't tell you *****.
You must also realise that God's law set...
...by men are meaningless.
*** *** We mention the right procedure, as to how to behave in a bedroom, as
we would instruct a child in good manners.
Obviously the long discourse by the previous poster was totally over your
head!
--
**** The fact that the greatest scientists, to their utter dismay, can't
breath life into a dead body or create a perfect animal and breath life into
it - is PROOF of a higher intelligence! ****
Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman,
both of them have committed an abomination: they shall
surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
.
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| User: "MyTwoAngels" |
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| Title: Re: When life really begins. |
24 Apr 2004 12:55:13 PM |
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On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 17:55:49 +0200, "Warnock" <warnnock@pop.co.za>
wrote:
"MyTwoAngels" <krisblakemy2babies@spamu.xmsg.com> wrote in message
news:ti6780p2lhonkf4jmjhhfbgfhjceo6ls0f@4ax.com...
no human being has the right to use my body against my will.
A fetus sure as hell isn't going to have a right that human beings
do not
have.
*** *** What's worrying you? You specifically invited it in, to stay
for 9
months, and have the right to a normal birth!
The only time you can break this contract, is if your life is
seriously in
danger!
Claiming that a woman who used contraception and who wants an abortion
"invited" a non-existant fetus to take up residence in her body is
pro-liar insanity.
Do you gamble? You realize that when you gamble that if you lose, you
must
pay? The woman knowingly...
The man knowingly...
The really sad part is we are talking about a human life,
...yes, the human life you forget is carrying it.
Yeah, but to you, neither of the parties who
If you want to enjoy the pleasures of sex, fantastic. The one restriction
is that you enjoy it between a husband (man), and wife (woman) in a
committed
life long monogamous relationship.
Just who the ***** are you to tell adult people what to do in the
confines of their bedroom with their respective, consenting adult
partners, eh?
Why would God tell us to do it this way?
God didn't tell you *****.
You must also realise that God's law set...
...by men are meaningless.
*** *** We mention the right procedure, as to how to behave in a bedroom...
***** off.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: When life really begins. |
17 Apr 2004 04:51:54 PM |
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On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 18:46:30 +0000 in episode
<c5ru26$2j2$1@bolt.sonic.net> we saw our hero (Ray
Fischer):
Warnock <warnnock@pop.co.za> wrote:
"Mizzyandrea" <mizzyandrea@aol.com> wrote in message
no human being has the right to use my body against my will. A fetus
sure as hell isn't going to have a right that human beings do not
have.
*** *** What's worrying you? You specifically invited it in, to stay for
9 months, and have the right to a normal birth! The only time you can
break this contract, is if your life is seriously in danger!
Claiming that a woman who used contraception and who wants an abortion
"invited" a non-existant fetus to take up residence in her body is
pro-liar insanity.
Warnock is only mad because his girlfriends keep leaving him for other
women...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism,
because it is a merger of State and corporate power."
- Mussolini
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| User: "MyTwoAngels" |
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| Title: Re: When life really begins. |
17 Apr 2004 04:53:30 PM |
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On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 16:51:54 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<y@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote:
On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 18:46:30 +0000 in episode
<c5ru26$2j2$1@bolt.sonic.net> we saw our hero (Ray
Fischer):
Warnock <warnnock@pop.co.za> wrote:
"Mizzyandrea" <mizzyandrea@aol.com> wrote in message
no human being has the right to use my body against my will. A fetus
sure as hell isn't going to have a right that human beings do not
have.
*** *** What's worrying you? Y | | | |
