| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"James" |
| Date: |
16 Apr 2005 02:33:05 PM |
| Object: |
Re: Who created God(s) |
Lajos wrote:
Re: Who created God(s)
If not nature but god is the creator, who created god?
L.
Hello,
The Bible says that God always existed. Ps 90:2,
"Before the mountains were born or you brought forth the earth and the
world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God." (NIV)
We may find it hard to understand such a concept because all of the
things we experience had a beginning. But even today, we consider
things hard to understand.
For example the other day on a PBS channel, scientists were talking
about the universe being infinite. Something that goes on forever is
also out of our experience, and many find difficult to comprehend. But
that might be the way it really is. And it is a similar way with the
existence of God.
So in conclusion, even though it may be difficult to understand, the
Bible says God always existed.
Sincerely, James
***********************************
Want a FREE home Bible study?
Have Jehovah's Witnesses questions?
Go to the authorized source:
http://www.watchtower.org
***********************************
.
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| User: "D.E. ask4myemail" |
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| Title: Re: Who created God(s) |
17 Apr 2005 10:18:04 AM |
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"James" <arox@surfbest.net> schreef in bericht
news:61q2615g1k23ue6rqikgp1lv3nqotssk0o@4ax.com...
lajos_baranyi@hotmail.com Lajos wrote:
Re: Who created God(s)
If not nature but god is the creator, who created god?
L.
Hello,
The Bible says that God always existed. Ps 90:2,
"Before the mountains were born or you brought forth the earth and the
world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God." (NIV)
We may find it hard to understand such a concept because all of the
things we experience had a beginning. But even today, we consider
things hard to understand.
For example the other day on a PBS channel, scientists were talking
about the universe being infinite. Something that goes on forever is
also out of our experience, and many find difficult to comprehend. But
that might be the way it really is. And it is a similar way with the
existence of God.
So in conclusion, even though it may be difficult to understand, the
Bible says God always existed.
So if he always existed, when did he decide to make a creation?
Did it in 6 days and rested the seventh (why?) which is stil gong on
I guess, so God is the guy with the 6 day work existance. ;o)
If it was just to create us, then why build an enormous universe just to
stick us on a small grain of sand in it?
Hmmmm God always was and is, so when did he get bored enough
to make his little antfarm?
.
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| User: "Eric Brze" |
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| Title: Re: Who created God(s) |
17 Apr 2005 12:00:55 PM |
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On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 17:18:04 +0200, "D.E." <ask4myemail> wrote:
"James" <arox@surfbest.net> schreef in bericht
news:61q2615g1k23ue6rqikgp1lv3nqotssk0o@4ax.com...
lajos_baranyi@hotmail.com Lajos wrote:
Re: Who created God(s)
If not nature but god is the creator, who created god?
L.
Hello,
The Bible says that God always existed. Ps 90:2,
"Before the mountains were born or you brought forth the earth and the
world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God." (NIV)
We may find it hard to understand such a concept because all of the
things we experience had a beginning. But even today, we consider
things hard to understand.
For example the other day on a PBS channel, scientists were talking
about the universe being infinite. Something that goes on forever is
also out of our experience, and many find difficult to comprehend. But
that might be the way it really is. And it is a similar way with the
existence of God.
So in conclusion, even though it may be difficult to understand, the
Bible says God always existed.
So if he always existed, when did he decide to make a creation?
Did it in 6 days and rested the seventh (why?) which is stil gong on
I guess, so God is the guy with the 6 day work existance. ;o)
For God, that's 6 days work. For us, that's 5 billion years earth
history.
If it was just to create us, then why build an enormous universe just to
stick us on a small grain of sand in it?
Obviously, we are not the only creation.
Hmmmm God always was and is, so when did he get bored enough
to make his little antfarm?
From the day you were born?
:-)
.
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| User: "D.E. ask4myemail" |
|
| Title: Re: Who created God(s) |
17 Apr 2005 04:06:36 PM |
|
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"Eric Brze" <brze@no.spam.mail.com> schreef in bericht
news:j45561htrd7ikcsci3jjbbbtnpqe4j9sag@4ax.com...
On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 17:18:04 +0200, "D.E." <ask4myemail> wrote:
"James" <arox@surfbest.net> schreef in bericht
news:61q2615g1k23ue6rqikgp1lv3nqotssk0o@4ax.com...
lajos_baranyi@hotmail.com Lajos wrote:
Re: Who created God(s)
If not nature but god is the creator, who created god?
L.
Hello,
The Bible says that God always existed. Ps 90:2,
"Before the mountains were born or you brought forth the earth and the
world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God." (NIV)
We may find it hard to understand such a concept because all of the
things we experience had a beginning. But even today, we consider
things hard to understand.
For example the other day on a PBS channel, scientists were talking
about the universe being infinite. Something that goes on forever is
also out of our experience, and many find difficult to comprehend. But
that might be the way it really is. And it is a similar way with the
existence of God.
So in conclusion, even though it may be difficult to understand, the
Bible says God always existed.
So if he always existed, when did he decide to make a creation?
Did it in 6 days and rested the seventh (why?) which is stil gong on
I guess, so God is the guy with the 6 day work existance. ;o)
For God, that's 6 days work. For us, that's 5 billion years earth
history.
So calling it days is ridiculous to start with, and why did it take him
5 billion years???
So don`t take the bible literally.
If it was just to create us, then why build an enormous universe just to
stick us on a small grain of sand in it?
Obviously, we are not the only creation.
Obviously? What evidence for others do you have?
Still, why this grain of sand.
Hmmmm God always was and is, so when did he get bored enough
to make his little antfarm?
From the day you were born?
Ofcourse he met his match ;o)
:-)
.
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| User: "Antagonist for God" |
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| Title: Re: Who created God(s) |
17 Apr 2005 04:09:31 PM |
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On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 23:06:36 +0200, "D.E."
<ask4myemail> spake thusly:
For God, that's 6 days work. For us, that's 5 billion years earth
history.
So calling it days is ridiculous to start with, and why did it take him
5 billion years??? So don`t take the bible literally.
The Bible teaches 6 literal days of creation.
--
Antoagonist for God
Silence in the Face of Doctrinal Criticism is Suicide
http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/solution.html
.
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| User: "Don Kresch" |
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| Title: Re: Who created God(s) |
17 Apr 2005 07:27:01 PM |
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In alt.atheism on Sun, 17 Apr 2005 21:09:31 GMT, Antagonist for God
<news-group-mail@nospam-tampa-bay.rr.com> let us all know that:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 23:06:36 +0200, "D.E."
<ask4myemail> spake thusly:
For God, that's 6 days work. For us, that's 5 billion years earth
history.
So calling it days is ridiculous to start with, and why did it take him
5 billion years??? So don`t take the bible literally.
The Bible teaches 6 literal days of creation.
It also teaches that the blood of doves will cure leprosy.
Don
---
aa #51, Knight of BAAWA, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man"
.
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| User: "The Great Hairy One" |
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| Title: Re: Who created God(s) |
18 Apr 2005 07:03:01 AM |
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In article <n2k561hmts5414udqoqspe9936l94p34r1@4ax.com>, news-group-
mail@nospam-tampa-bay.rr.com says...
The Bible teaches 6 literal days of creation.
And what, exactly, is a "literal day"? A day where, here, or on Pluto?
What makes you think that a day has to be limited to what we think a day
is?
Cheers,
TGHO
--
The Great Hairy One,
ICQ: 118086514
All BAAWA and blue
SMASH! Aha! They'll save every one of us!
====================================
CEO EAC Roleplaying Division
The last thing many players
hear is me asking for 45d6...
(Remove spam block to email)
.
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| User: "Antagonist for God" |
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| Title: Re: Who created God(s) |
18 Apr 2005 09:45:42 AM |
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On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 22:03:01 +1000, The Great Hairy One
<the.great.hairy@GEEmail.com> spake thusly:
In article <n2k561hmts5414udqoqspe9936l94p34r1@4ax.com>, news-group-
mail@nospam-tampa-bay.rr.com says...
The Bible teaches 6 literal days of creation.
And what, exactly, is a "literal day"? A day where, here, or on Pluto?
What makes you think that a day has to be limited to what we think a day
is?
Acting stupid won't rewrite the Bible.
--
Antagonist for God
Silence in the Face of Doctrinal Criticism is Suicide
http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/solution.html
.
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| User: "CSGD" |
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| Title: Re: Who created God(s) |
19 Apr 2005 07:45:52 AM |
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"Antagonist for God" <news-group-mail@nospam-tampa-bay.rr.com> wrote in
message news:30i76156kvqdcj3g3bhnuk2u9jh99b4q6l@4ax.com...
On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 22:03:01 +1000, The Great Hairy One
<the.great.hairy@GEEmail.com> spake thusly:
In article <n2k561hmts5414udqoqspe9936l94p34r1@4ax.com>, news-group-
mail@nospam-tampa-bay.rr.com says...
The Bible teaches 6 literal days of creation.
And what, exactly, is a "literal day"? A day where, here, or on Pluto?
What makes you think that a day has to be limited to what we think a day
is?
Acting stupid won't rewrite the Bible.
You must also remember that translation causes much to be lost.
Perhaps the literal translation of what we have come to know as "day" as
written in the bible means something closer to "a cycle of light and
darkness" and actually refers to the birth and death of an entire galaxy?
Perhaps what has been translated into "day" actually was originally written
as "an age of the sun" and refers to a part of the length of a star's life,
for example the time taken to finish fissioning hydrogen to helium and begin
converting helium into iron or whatever the stages of fission are?
If you step outside of religion and look at it through the eyes of a more
open-minded science than we currently have, and imagine it is in fact a tome
left to humanity by creatures nurturing us from animals into sentient
creatures, then how on earth do you teach these creatures about how life
begins and how dust from a collection of age-old stars collalesces to form
planets and eventually the very creatures you are trying to instruct.
How would YOU explain it to an ape that has been taught to understand
sign-language? I'll bet you'd find a few limitations that weren't your own.
--
Antagonist for God
Silence in the Face of Doctrinal Criticism is Suicide
http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/solution.html
.
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| User: "Antagonist for God" |
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| Title: Re: Who created God(s) |
19 Apr 2005 09:01:13 PM |
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On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 22:45:52 +1000, "CSGD"
<someone@da.door> spake thusly:
"Antagonist for God" <news-group-mail@nospam-tampa-bay.rr.com> wrote in
message news:30i76156kvqdcj3g3bhnuk2u9jh99b4q6l@4ax.com...
On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 22:03:01 +1000, The Great Hairy One
<the.great.hairy@GEEmail.com> spake thusly:
In article <n2k561hmts5414udqoqspe9936l94p34r1@4ax.com>, news-group-
mail@nospam-tampa-bay.rr.com says...
The Bible teaches 6 literal days of creation.
And what, exactly, is a "literal day"? A day where, here, or on Pluto?
What makes you think that a day has to be limited to what we think a day
is?
Acting stupid won't rewrite the Bible.
You must also remember that translation causes much to be lost.
Acting stupid won't rewrite the Bible.
--
Antagonist for God
Silence in the Face of Doctrinal Criticism is Suicide
http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/solution.html
.
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| User: "CSGD" |
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| Title: Re: Who created God(s) |
19 Apr 2005 10:12:08 PM |
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"Antagonist for God" <news-group-mail@nospam-tampa-bay.rr.com> wrote in
message news:vudb6157pmdie8fn8u9f7dbvqqg2c4ktai@4ax.com...
On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 22:45:52 +1000, "CSGD"
<someone@da.door> spake thusly:
Acting stupid won't rewrite the Bible.
Spitting out the same line over and over wont make you appear to have wit.
.
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| User: "Virgil" |
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| Title: Re: Who created God(s) |
19 Apr 2005 10:36:24 PM |
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In article <vudb6157pmdie8fn8u9f7dbvqqg2c4ktai@4ax.com>,
Antagonist for God <news-group-mail@nospam-tampa-bay.rr.com> wrote:
And what, exactly, is a "literal day"? A day where, here, or on Pluto?
What makes you think that a day has to be limited to what we think a day
is?
Acting stupid won't rewrite the Bible.
You must also remember that translation causes much to be lost.
Acting stupid won't rewrite the Bible.
Then stop acting stupid, as it won't help.
.
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| User: "The Great Hairy One" |
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| Title: Re: Who created God(s) |
22 Apr 2005 04:55:56 AM |
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In article <vudb6157pmdie8fn8u9f7dbvqqg2c4ktai@4ax.com>, news-group-
mail@nospam-tampa-bay.rr.com says...
Acting stupid won't rewrite the Bible.
You're not very good at this whole "let's have a philosophical
discussion" thing, are you?
--
The Great Hairy One,
ICQ: 118086514
All BAAWA and blue
SMASH! Aha! They'll save every one of us!
====================================
CEO EAC Roleplaying Division
The last thing many players
hear is me asking for 45d6...
(Remove spam block to email)
.
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| User: "CM" |
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| Title: Re: Who created God(s) |
18 Apr 2005 09:53:23 PM |
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The Bible teaches 6 literal days of creation.
And what, exactly, is a "literal day"? A day where, here, or on Pluto?
What makes you think that a day has to be limited to what we
think a day is?
Acting stupid won't rewrite the Bible.
Acting stupid won't turn a book of myths into a true story.
CM
.
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| User: "Carl Walther" |
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| Title: Re: Who created God(s) |
18 Apr 2005 09:58:15 PM |
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CM wrote:
The Bible teaches 6 literal days of creation.
And what, exactly, is a "literal day"? A day where, here, or on
Pluto?
What makes you think that a day has to be limited to what we
think a day is?
Acting stupid won't rewrite the Bible.
Acting stupid won't turn a book of myths into a true story.
CM
That's true, except the Bible is true. I don't know what book of myths
you are referring to. Perhaps "The Origin of the Species"?
--Carl
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| User: "Bear" |
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| Title: Re: Who created God(s) |
18 Apr 2005 10:19:02 PM |
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"Carl Walther" wrote
: CM wrote:
: > Acting stupid won't turn a book of myths into a true story.
:
: That's true, except the Bible is true.
And you can provide "objective" evidence to support that claim?
--
Bear
And I know it’s my own damn fault.
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| User: "Carl Walther" |
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| Title: Re: Who created God(s) |
18 Apr 2005 10:24:30 PM |
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Bear wrote:
"Carl Walther" wrote
: CM wrote:
: > Acting stupid won't turn a book of myths into a true story.
:
: That's true, except the Bible is true.
And you can provide "objective" evidence to support that claim?
--
Bear
There is no objective evidence to subtantiate any claims against it. Of
course you can come up with those, to keep you from believing, right?
--Carl
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| User: "Bear" |
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| Title: Re: Who created God(s) |
18 Apr 2005 11:04:55 PM |
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"Carl Walther" wrote
: Bear wrote:
: > "Carl Walther" wrote
: > : CM wrote:
: > : > Acting stupid won't turn a book of myths into a true story.
: > :
: > : That's true, except the Bible is true.
: >
: > And you can provide "objective" evidence to support that claim?
:
: There is no objective evidence to subtantiate any claims against it. Of
: course you can come up with those, to keep you from believing, right?
Christians are also fond of telling skeptics they should prove that Jesus
did not rise from the dead.
In doing this they are being totally ignorant or totally dishonest because
these clever ministers who have studied their theology and philosophy and
logic know that the burden of proof is upon the asserter, and that no one
can prove or be expected to prove a negative. Logically, either Jesus rose
from the dead or he did not. The burden of proof is on the ones who assert
he did.
There is nothing remarkable about saying a man cannot rise from the dead. It
does not require proof in a world where some-thing like twelve billion
people have died and have stayed dead. The ones who say that they have an
instance where it was not true have the burden of proof. Unless they prove
it satisfactorily, people inclined to believe such nonsense should not do.
It is absurd to say to those who do not believe Christians that they have to
prove it did not happen. We might as well ask the Christians to prove that
Pontius Pilate did not rise from the dead. Billions of permanent deaths
should be sufficient proof for Christians or non-believers. (God's Truth; Dr
M D Magee)
The same goes for all of your assertions, e.g., "the Bible is true."
--
Bear
And I know it’s my own damn fault.
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| User: "Carl Walther" |
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| Title: Re: Who created God(s) |
18 Apr 2005 11:14:36 PM |
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How do you know Jesus didn't rise from the dead?
--Carl
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| User: "CM" |
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| Title: Re: Who created God(s) |
19 Apr 2005 12:43:29 AM |
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"Carl Walther" <no_no_no_splam@hotmail.com>wondered...
How do you know Jesus didn't rise from the dead?
How do you know Jesus died on the cross?
The Roman method of crucifixion was a horrifyingly effective torture
method, but not so good for executions. Depending on the weather and their
condition, a victim could survive writhing in pain for days before
succumbing to stress, blood loss, infection, or hypothermia. In more recent
times, some masochistic Christians have had themselves nailed to a cross
for a few hours during the Easter holidays, as a sign of their devotion to
Jesus. Some have done it more than once.
Jesus was on the cross less than a day, taken down because his followers
thought he was dead, Hebrew law required burial within a day of the time of
death, and no work (including burial) could be done on the Sabbath day
(starting friday at sunset). If Jesus didn't die on the cross, but was
rendered unconscious and didn't feel the stab in his side, he could have
regained consciousness in the tomb and assumed he had "returned from the
dead". Not a miraculous resurrection, but a much more ordinary awakening
from a coma.
CM
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| User: "Carl Walther" |
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| Title: Re: Who created God(s) |
19 Apr 2005 02:23:11 PM |
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CM wrote:
"Carl Walther" <no_no_no_splam@hotmail.com>wondered...
How do you know Jesus didn't rise from the dead?
Not a miraculous resurrection, but a much more ordinary awakening
from a coma.
CM
Yeah... the coma theory sounds good... I mean people who come out of
comas just jump up and show themselves to people. They aren't weak or
anything...
(lame)
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| User: "D.E. ask4myemail" |
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| Title: Re: Who created God(s) |
20 Apr 2005 02:59:08 PM |
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"Carl Walther" <no_no_no_splam@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:1113938591.637619.5800@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
CM wrote:
"Carl Walther" <no_no_no_splam@hotmail.com>wondered...
How do you know Jesus didn't rise from the dead?
Not a miraculous resurrection, but a much more ordinary awakening
from a coma.
CM
Yeah... the coma theory sounds good... I mean people who come out of
comas just jump up and show themselves to people. They aren't weak or
anything...
(lame)
Duh, a three day coma is something else.
And many people get out of "death" because a disease
they have, they are declared dead, but just wake up, start walking,
documented and all.
.
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| User: "Carl Walther" |
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| Title: Re: Who created God(s) |
20 Apr 2005 10:33:32 PM |
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D.E. wrote:
"Carl Walther" <no_no_no_splam@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:1113938591.637619.5800@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
CM wrote:
"Carl Walther" <no_no_no_splam@hotmail.com>wondered...
How do you know Jesus didn't rise from the dead?
Not a miraculous resurrection, but a much more ordinary awakening
from a coma.
CM
Yeah... the coma theory sounds good... I mean people who come out
of
comas just jump up and show themselves to people. They aren't weak
or
anything...
(lame)
Duh, a three day coma is something else.
And many people get out of "death" because a disease
they have, they are declared dead, but just wake up, start walking,
documented and all.
Really? And they move a rock weighing what must be hundreds of pounds?
Name one.
--Carl
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| User: "D.E. ask4myemail" |
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| Title: Re: Who created God(s) |
23 Apr 2005 10:51:52 AM |
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"Carl Walther" <no_no_no_splam@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:1114054412.806262.78140@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
D.E. wrote:
"Carl Walther" <no_no_no_splam@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:1113938591.637619.5800@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
CM wrote:
"Carl Walther" <no_no_no_splam@hotmail.com>wondered...
How do you know Jesus didn't rise from the dead?
Not a miraculous resurrection, but a much more ordinary awakening
from a coma.
CM
Yeah... the coma theory sounds good... I mean people who come out
of
comas just jump up and show themselves to people. They aren't weak
or
anything...
(lame)
Duh, a three day coma is something else.
And many people get out of "death" because a disease
they have, they are declared dead, but just wake up, start walking,
documented and all.
Really? And they move a rock weighing what must be hundreds of pounds?
Name one.
Who said that he did? besides it was a ROUND rock, wheel shaped
and with a stick one could move it. Basics.
--Carl
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| User: "Carl Walther" |
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| Title: Re: Who created God(s) |
23 Apr 2005 12:04:43 PM |
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D.E. wrote:
"Carl Walther" <no_no_no_splam@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:1114054412.806262.78140@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
D.E. wrote:
"Carl Walther" <no_no_no_splam@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:1113938591.637619.5800@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
CM wrote:
"Carl Walther" <no_no_no_splam@hotmail.com>wondered...
How do you know Jesus didn't rise from the dead?
Not a miraculous resurrection, but a much more ordinary
awakening
from a coma.
CM
Yeah... the coma theory sounds good... I mean people who come
out
of
comas just jump up and show themselves to people. They aren't
weak
or
anything...
(lame)
Duh, a three day coma is something else.
And many people get out of "death" because a disease
they have, they are declared dead, but just wake up, start
walking,
documented and all.
Really? And they move a rock weighing what must be hundreds of
pounds?
Name one.
Who said that he did? besides it was a ROUND rock, wheel shaped
and with a stick one could move it. Basics.
--Carl
The scriptures record that the Rock (wighing about 900 lbs) was moved
and Jesus was gone. As for moving it with a stick, where would He get a
stick? He was in a tomb. A tomb being guarded by Roman centurions.
--Carl
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| User: "CM" |
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| Title: Re: Who created God(s) |
02 May 2005 09:39:36 PM |
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Not a miraculous resurrection, but a much more
ordinary awakening from a coma.
Yeah... the coma theory sounds good...
I mean people who come out of
comas just jump up and show themselves
to people. They aren't weak or anything...
(lame)
Duh, a three day coma is something else.
And many people get out of "death" because a disease
they have, they are declared dead, but just wake up,
start walking, documented and all.
Really? And they move a rock weighing what
must be hundreds of pounds?
Who said that he did? besides it was a ROUND rock,
wheel shaped and with a stick one could move it. Basics.
The scriptures record that the Rock (wighing about 900 lbs) was moved
and Jesus was gone. As for moving it with a stick, where would He get a
stick? He was in a tomb.
The scriptures do not mention the weight or the size of the "stone", so
your figures are just conjecture (made up). I could as easily guess that it
was the size of a manhole cover - heavy but not unmovable. All it mentions
is that the "stone was rolled away" implying that it was round, thus easier
to roll.
Also, the "stone" must have been rolled in by ordinary humans to seal the
tomb, they didn't have power tools back then. If it could be rolled in by a
human, it could be rolled out by a human.
A tomb being guarded by Roman centurions.
Another interesting point. Why would the Roman Governors waste manpower and
assign someone to guard a tomb? Only if he had the suspicion that the
occupant of that tomb might not be dead, and might try to escape. Only
problem was, he assigned a superstitious fool to the task, who, when he saw
the tombstone being moved from within, fainted!
CM
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| User: "Carl Walther" |
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| Title: Re: Who created God(s) |
03 May 2005 02:55:21 PM |
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CM wrote:
The scriptures record that the Rock (wighing about 900 lbs) was
moved
and Jesus was gone. As for moving it with a stick, where would He
get a
stick? He was in a tomb.
The scriptures do not mention the weight or the size of the "stone",
so
your figures are just conjecture (made up). I could as easily guess
that it
was the size of a manhole cover - heavy but not unmovable. All it
mentions
is that the "stone was rolled away" implying that it was round, thus
easier
to roll.
The scriptures do not give the actual weight, but the tombs are hardly
a secret. They can be viewed even today. Historically, the tombs had
HUGE stones to protect the bodies from being bothered because Jewish
law has ALWAYS been clear on protecting the bodies of the dead.
As far as being easier to roll, I would grant that to be true in the
same way that putting the blocks used to build the Pyramids in Egypt
were easier to move because they were put on logs that rolled. It still
took hundreds of people to move them.
Also, the "stone" must have been rolled in by ordinary humans to seal
the
tomb, they didn't have power tools back then. If it could be rolled
in by a
human, it could be rolled out by a human.
You are making an assumption that one person could move the stone (or
DID move the stone into place.) I see you have your own conjecture
(made up) to explain this.
A tomb being guarded by Roman centurions.
Another interesting point. Why would the Roman Governors waste
manpower and
assign someone to guard a tomb? Only if he had the suspicion that the
occupant of that tomb might not be dead, and might try to escape.
Easy, they were concerned that the people who:
1. Hated Jesus would try to take and parade His dead body.
2. Followed Jesus would take His body, hide it, and say he returned.
The scriptures DO mention that fact.
Matthew 27: 62 Next day, that is, after the day of Preparation, the
chief priests and the Pharisees gathered before Pilate 63 and said,
"Sir, we remember how that impostor said, while he was still alive,
'After three days I will rise.' 64 Therefore order the tomb to be
made secure until the third day, lest his disciples go and steal him
away and tell the people, 'He has risen from the dead,' and the
last fraud will be worse than the first." 65 Pilate said to them,
"You have a guard [9] of soldiers. Go, make it as secure as you
can." 66 So they went and made the tomb secure by sealing the stone
and setting a guard.
Only
problem was, he assigned a superstitious fool to the task,
who, when he saw
the tombstone being moved from within, fainted!
Actually, they saw it being moved from the outside.
Matthew 28:2 And behold, there was a great earthquake, for an angel of
the Lord descended from heaven and came and rolled back the stone and
sat on it. 3 His appearance was like lightning, and his clothing white
as snow.
Not just one guard, but GUARDS (there were more than one)
Matthew 28:4 And for fear of him the guards trembled and became like
dead men.
You have a lot of holes in your refutation. Does it bother you that
Jesus Christ wants to save even you?
--Carl
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| User: "Antagonist for God" |
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| Title: Re: Who created God(s) |
03 May 2005 08:48:39 AM |
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On Tue, 03 May 2005 02:39:36 GMT, "CM"
<cm@cm.not.really> spake thusly:
Who said that he did? besides it was a ROUND rock,
wheel shaped and with a stick one could move it. Basics.
The scriptures record that the Rock (wighing about 900 lbs) was moved
and Jesus was gone. As for moving it with a stick, where would He get a
stick? He was in a tomb.
The scriptures do not mention the weight or the size of the "stone", so
your figures are just conjecture (made up). I could as easily guess that it
was the size of a manhole cover - heavy but not unmovable. All it mentions
is that the "stone was rolled away" implying that it was round, thus easier
to roll.
And this is an example of you trying to throw out
historical information, whenever it doesn't suit your
argument.
Also, the "stone" must have been rolled in by ordinary humans to seal the
tomb, they didn't have power tools back then. If it could be rolled in by a
human, it could be rolled out by a human.
Once again, your ignorance shows and now we categorize
it as stupidity, since you are willingly ignorant.
The stone would have been on a narrow angled ramp, with
a groove cut into it (out of the same rock as the
cave), so that the stone would easily roll into place,
to seal the tomb.
A tomb being guarded by Roman centurions.
Another interesting point. Why would the Roman Governors waste manpower and
assign someone to guard a tomb? Only if he had the suspicion that the
occupant of that tomb might not be dead, and might try to escape. Only
problem was, he assigned a superstitious fool to the task, who, when he saw
the tombstone being moved from within, fainted!
They were assigned there, because Jesus claimed that He
would rise again. They wished to guard the body, so
that His disciples could not steal it and claim that He
rose, if He didn't.
--
Antagonist for God
Silence in the Face of Doctrinal Criticism is Suicide
http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/solution.html
http://tinyurl.com/ce97m
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| User: "Your Name Here=Harvey" |
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| Title: Re: Who created God(s) |
05 May 2005 02:51:05 AM |
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In article <040f71l2f18cfj4tl3pvoa936ukb6nkvlr@4ax.com>,
news-group-mail@nospam-tampa-bay.rr.com says...
On Tue, 03 May 2005 02:39:36 GMT, "CM"
<cm@cm.not.really> spake thusly:
Who said that he did? besides it was a ROUND rock,
wheel shaped and with a stick one could move it. Basics.
The scriptures record that the Rock (wighing about 900 lbs) was moved
and Jesus was gone. As for moving it with a stick, where would He get a
stick? He was in a tomb.
The scriptures do not mention the weight or the size of the "stone", so
your figures are just conjecture (made up). I could as easily guess that it
was the size of a manhole cover - heavy but not unmovable. All it mentions
is that the "stone was rolled away" implying that it was round, thus easier
to roll.
And this is an example of you trying to throw out
historical information, whenever it doesn't suit your
argument.
Also, the "stone" must have been rolled in by ordinary humans to seal the
tomb, they didn't have power tools back then. If it could be rolled in by a
human, it could be rolled out by a human.
Once again, your ignorance shows and now we categorize
it as stupidity, since you are willingly ignorant.
The stone would have been on a narrow angled ramp, with
a groove cut into it (out of the same rock as the
cave), so that the stone would easily roll into place,
to seal the tomb.
A tomb being guarded by Roman centurions.
Another interesting point. Why would the Roman Governors waste manpower and
assign someone to guard a tomb? Only if he had the suspicion that the
occupant of that tomb might not be dead, and might try to escape. Only
problem was, he assigned a superstitious fool to the task, who, when he saw
the tombstone being moved from within, fainted!
They were assigned there, because Jesus claimed that He
would rise again. They wished to guard the body, so
that His disciples could not steal it and claim that He
rose, if He didn't.
--
Antagonist for God
Silence in the Face of Doctrinal Criticism is Suicide
http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/solution.html
http://tinyurl.com/ce97m
What is regarded as the tomb of Jesus today, is claimed that it is not.
The story being that the emperor at the time, wanted Jesus' tomb found,
and a tomb was presented, as having been found, as per his order.
This is presented in the Talmud Jmmanuel story. The above info is from
Ed T Martin, who has written the book, 'Jesus - King of Travellers --- Jesus'
Lost Years in India'.
I don't believe that the bible is true and accurate, especially as regards
the New Testament stories about Jesus. The Talmud Jmmanuel is notably
different. It paints a more complete picture, for those really wanting
to know, what Jesus' teachings were, and a more faithful description of
events of the crucifixion.
It tallies with the presentation of 'Did Jesus Die?' - a British television
production.
www.tombofjesus.com
Harvey
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| User: "Antagonist for God" |
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| Title: Re: Who created God(s) |
23 Apr 2005 11:06:41 AM |
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On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 17:51:52 +0200, "D.E."
<ask4myemail> spake thusly:
Really? And they move a rock weighing what must be hundreds of pounds?
Name one.
Who said that he did? besides it was a ROUND rock, wheel shaped
and with a stick one could move it. Basics.
Wrong. It was in a groove that ran at a downhill angle
and was very heavy and was sealed and He was in no
shape to stand (even if He were alive), let alone move
a rock that big.
--
Antagonist for God
Silence in the Face of Doctrinal Criticism is Suicide
http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/solution.html
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| User: "D.E. ask4myemail" |
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| Title: Re: Who created God(s) |
29 May 2005 03:40:46 PM |
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"Antagonist for God" <news-group-mail@nospam-tampa-bay.rr.com> schreef in
bericht news:aisk61hrmqk21gj5h39ji6bn8b1gcdtnb7@4ax.com...
On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 17:51:52 +0200, "D.E."
<ask4myemail> spake thusly:
Really? And they move a rock weighing what must be hundreds of pounds?
Name one.
Who said that he did? besides it was a ROUND rock, wheel shaped
and with a stick one could move it. Basics.
Wrong. It was in a groove that ran at a downhill angle
and was very heavy and was sealed and He was in no
shape to stand (even if He were alive), let alone move
a rock that big.
I startes with, who said he did?
Antagonist for God
Silence in the Face of Doctrinal Criticism is Suicide
http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/solution.html
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