| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
27 Feb 2006 06:55:18 PM |
| Object: |
Re: Why did the Romans persecute the Christians? |
wrote:
The Roman Empire was religiously tolerant. The state allowed people
from different parts of the empire to keep their own religions. Often,
old and new cults from different parts of the empire were merged
together, that is, there was a lot of _syncretism_ of religions.
But there was one exception from this Roman tolerance against
religions: Christianity. As I understand it, Christianity was illegal
in the Roman Empire from its appearance in the 1st century A.D. until
Emperor Constantine made it legal in the 4th century. There were many
Christian martyrs that were executed during this period, and there were
major waves of persecution about 250 A.D. during Emperor Decius and
about 300 A.D. during Emperor Diocletian.
Why? What was the difference between Christianity and other religions,
that made the Romans feel it necessary to ban Christianity and to
persecute and execute Christians?
After all, most Christians were law abiding citizens that just wanted
to mind their own business and, to some extent, convert others. Yet, to
waste so much energy and resources in persecution of Christians, the
Romans must have considered the Christians as a seriuos threat against
society. What was that threat they perceived?
One possible answer is that the Christians refused to worship the
Emperor, a costum that was made mandatory by the state, and that most
other religions accepted. But this can hardly be all of it, because the
Jews didn't worship the Emperor either, and the Romans granted them an
exception from that rule. Why couldn't the Christians get a similar
exception?
Could it be the apocalyptics of Early Christianity that was the
problem? The Early Christians believed in a Second Coming of Christ in
the _near_ future, when major upheavals would occur and the world as
they knew it would be destroyed. Perhaps the Romans feared that the
Christians would not just passively wait for this, but also actively
try to cause these upheavals and destruction? If so, the Romans would
naturally consider the Christians as very dangerous potential
troublemakers. And perpaps this fear wasn't entirely unfounded.
Couldn't there actually have existed fringe Christians that wanted to
expedite the Second Coming of Christ in this way? If so, the blame cast
upon the Christians by Emperor Nero for setting fire to Rome in 64 A.D.
might have appeared as quite justified by the public...
JESUS AND NOT CAESAR WAS THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD.
THAT WAS THE ONLY SIN THEY WERE ACCUSED TO HAVE
COMMITTED.
Down with Caesar.
But that's only my own speculations. Does anybode have some more
definite knowledge about this?
Regards,
Erland Gadde
.
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| User: "Goodness Godless" |
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| Title: Re: Why did the Romans persecute the Christians? |
01 Mar 2006 06:07:52 PM |
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<Codebreaker@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
news:1141088118.638051.300090@t39g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
erland@bredband.net wrote:
The Roman Empire was religiously tolerant. The state allowed people
from different parts of the empire to keep their own religions. Often,
old and new cults from different parts of the empire were merged
together, that is, there was a lot of _syncretism_ of religions.
But there was one exception from this Roman tolerance against
religions: Christianity.
What a load of self rightous, Jubus Freek, crap. How come you
Wanky Xians have become so fucking arogent!
No wonder you are 8 trillion dollars in the red to the Communist Chinease!
Coward Bush and Clinton dont have the heroisim to drop bombs on
the Chinease!
.
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| User: "Geoff" |
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| Title: Re: Why did the Romans persecute the Christians? |
28 Feb 2006 12:26:18 AM |
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<Codebreaker@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
news:1141088118.638051.300090@t39g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
erland@bredband.net wrote:
The Roman Empire was religiously tolerant. The state allowed people
from different parts of the empire to keep their own religions. Often,
old and new cults from different parts of the empire were merged
together, that is, there was a lot of _syncretism_ of religions.
But there was one exception from this Roman tolerance against
religions: Christianity. As I understand it, Christianity was illegal
in the Roman Empire from its appearance in the 1st century A.D. until
Emperor Constantine made it legal in the 4th century. There were many
Christian martyrs that were executed during this period, and there were
major waves of persecution about 250 A.D. during Emperor Decius and
about 300 A.D. during Emperor Diocletian.
Why? What was the difference between Christianity and other religions,
that made the Romans feel it necessary to ban Christianity and to
persecute and execute Christians?
After all, most Christians were law abiding citizens that just wanted
to mind their own business and, to some extent, convert others. Yet, to
waste so much energy and resources in persecution of Christians, the
Romans must have considered the Christians as a seriuos threat against
society. What was that threat they perceived?
One possible answer is that the Christians refused to worship the
Emperor, a costum that was made mandatory by the state, and that most
other religions accepted. But this can hardly be all of it, because the
Jews didn't worship the Emperor either, and the Romans granted them an
exception from that rule. Why couldn't the Christians get a similar
exception?
Could it be the apocalyptics of Early Christianity that was the
problem? The Early Christians believed in a Second Coming of Christ in
the _near_ future, when major upheavals would occur and the world as
they knew it would be destroyed. Perhaps the Romans feared that the
Christians would not just passively wait for this, but also actively
try to cause these upheavals and destruction? If so, the Romans would
naturally consider the Christians as very dangerous potential
troublemakers. And perpaps this fear wasn't entirely unfounded.
Couldn't there actually have existed fringe Christians that wanted to
expedite the Second Coming of Christ in this way? If so, the blame cast
upon the Christians by Emperor Nero for setting fire to Rome in 64 A.D.
might have appeared as quite justified by the public...
JESUS AND NOT CAESAR WAS THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD.
THAT WAS THE ONLY SIN THEY WERE ACCUSED TO HAVE
COMMITTED.
Down with Caesar.
But that's only my own speculations. Does anybode have some more
definite knowledge about this?
There is remarkably little evidence of any persecution by the Romans. It
probably was another isolated incident(s) that was mythologized.
.
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| User: "Harshman" |
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| Title: Re: Why did the Romans persecute the Christians? |
28 Feb 2006 09:21:25 PM |
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"Geoff" <gebobs@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Ze2dncbnEo6XcJ7ZRVn-rQ@comcast.com...
There is remarkably little evidence of any persecution by the Romans. It
probably was another isolated incident(s) that was mythologized.
According to biblical records (which have a great deal of historical value,
if you aren't freaked out by the fact that they're included in the Christian
bible), most of the persecution of the very early church was religious, not
political. Early Christianity was just a splinter sect of Judaism, after
all, and the Romans didn't seem to care to be involved when they could avoid
it. I'm not sure at exactly what point Rome became concerned with the
rapidly growing number of Christians within the empire.
In regards to the "apocalyptic religion" theory, it's worth noting that a
fair percentage of Christians today still believe that Nero was the
AntiChrist. To them, the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem very much
was the end of the world, as the Jews knew it. And Preterists feel fine.
.
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| User: "Thandarr" |
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| Title: Re: Why did the Romans persecute the Christians? |
28 Feb 2006 10:56:52 PM |
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It's interesting that this discussion shows up here on "alt.atheism."
Had there been a Usenet during the time of the Roman empire, this would
be a good name for a Christian newsgroup. Christians' big crime was
that they were atheists, denying the existence of the real Gods.
As is already documented above,
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/persecutions.html the persecutions
were sporadic and often uninspired, but from a 21st century perspective
even the minimal intermittent persecutions of Christians were
inexcusable. For one thing, they served to popularize Christianity.
Nevertheless, it is not as if being caught at a Christian gathering was
a death sentence. The evidence seems to suggest that forgiveness was
easy for those who would sacrifice to the Gods or the emperor.
http://www.bibletopics.com/BibleStudy/139.htm
http://www.christianchronicler.com/history1/potentates_and_pressures.html
http://www.unrv.com/culture/christian-persecution.php (incidentally,
the bit about Claudius expelling Christians is confusing. Suetonius
writes "Chrestus" who may or may not have been someone preaching
Christianity, but certainly wasn't Jesus because Chrestus was in Rome.
It's also interesting that this post starts out with "JESUS AND NOT
CAESAR WAS THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD" To the Romans it was the exact
opposite. The emperors, in particular Caesar, were deified and Jesus
of Nazareth was an executed criminal.
Some Christians believe that 666, the Mark of the Beast, refers to Nero
Caesar (NRWN KSR in Hebrew letters, I think). If you leave one of the
N's off, it becomes 616, as it is in some texts.
Thandarr
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| User: "cyclotron" |
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| Title: Re: Why did the Romans persecute the Christians? |
01 Mar 2006 12:42:01 AM |
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For an excellent example of the trial and execution of an early
Christian, see The Martyrdom of Polycarp:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/martyrdompolycarp.html
Of interest are the things he is asked to do to save himself: swear by
the fortune of Caesar, revile or deny Christ (or repent of being a
Christian), offer sacrifice to the gods, and to say the words "away
with the atheists". The latter, he did, but while pointing to the
crowd, which did not score him any points of course. The anger of the
crowd was along these lines: "This is the teacher of Asia, the father
of the Christians, and the overthrower of our gods, he who has been
teaching many not to sacrifice, or to worship the gods."
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
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| Title: Re: Why did the Romans persecute the Christians? |
01 Mar 2006 07:11:24 AM |
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On 28 Feb 2006 20:56:52 -0800, "Thandarr" <thandarr@yahoo.com> wrote:
It's interesting that this discussion shows up here on "alt.atheism."
Had there been a Usenet during the time of the Roman empire, this would
be a good name for a Christian newsgroup. Christians' big crime was
that they were atheists, denying the existence of the real Gods.
Another point:
The jews were an organised religion with an established priesthood
which the Romans could recognise and control (or try to). The
Christians at the time were more little cells with no clear hierarchy
and something they could not pin down or control. They were to
them just as we see muslim terrorists cells here today I submit.
Secretive, suspicious, plotting, plotting what whereas the Jews were
out in the open.
As is already documented above,
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/persecutions.html the persecutions
were sporadic and often uninspired, but from a 21st century perspective
even the minimal intermittent persecutions of Christians were
inexcusable. For one thing, they served to popularize Christianity.
Nevertheless, it is not as if being caught at a Christian gathering was
a death sentence. The evidence seems to suggest that forgiveness was
easy for those who would sacrifice to the Gods or the emperor.
http://www.bibletopics.com/BibleStudy/139.htm
http://www.christianchronicler.com/history1/potentates_and_pressures.html
http://www.unrv.com/culture/christian-persecution.php (incidentally,
the bit about Claudius expelling Christians is confusing. Suetonius
writes "Chrestus" who may or may not have been someone preaching
Christianity, but certainly wasn't Jesus because Chrestus was in Rome.
It's also interesting that this post starts out with "JESUS AND NOT
CAESAR WAS THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD" To the Romans it was the exact
opposite. The emperors, in particular Caesar, were deified and Jesus
of Nazareth was an executed criminal.
Some Christians believe that 666, the Mark of the Beast, refers to Nero
Caesar (NRWN KSR in Hebrew letters, I think). If you leave one of the
N's off, it becomes 616, as it is in some texts.
Thandarr
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
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| Title: Re: Why did the Romans persecute the Christians? |
01 Mar 2006 07:05:37 AM |
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On 28 Feb 2006 20:56:52 -0800, "Thandarr" <thandarr@yahoo.com> wrote:
It's interesting that this discussion shows up here on "alt.atheism."
Had there been a Usenet during the time of the Roman empire, this would
be a good name for a Christian newsgroup. Christians' big crime was
that they were atheists, denying the existence of the real Gods.
The big crime was they did the Jehova's witness bit and tried to
seel their religion to the Roman's in their own homes under the
vert shadows of their gods.
It was stupid then and it is still stupid now.
As is already documented above,
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/persecutions.html the persecutions
were sporadic and often uninspired, but from a 21st century perspective
even the minimal intermittent persecutions of Christians were
inexcusable. For one thing, they served to popularize Christianity.
Nevertheless, it is not as if being caught at a Christian gathering was
a death sentence. The evidence seems to suggest that forgiveness was
easy for those who would sacrifice to the Gods or the emperor.
http://www.bibletopics.com/BibleStudy/139.htm
http://www.christianchronicler.com/history1/potentates_and_pressures.html
http://www.unrv.com/culture/christian-persecution.php (incidentally,
the bit about Claudius expelling Christians is confusing. Suetonius
writes "Chrestus" who may or may not have been someone preaching
Christianity, but certainly wasn't Jesus because Chrestus was in Rome.
It's also interesting that this post starts out with "JESUS AND NOT
CAESAR WAS THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD" To the Romans it was the exact
opposite. The emperors, in particular Caesar, were deified and Jesus
of Nazareth was an executed criminal.
Some Christians believe that 666, the Mark of the Beast, refers to Nero
Caesar (NRWN KSR in Hebrew letters, I think). If you leave one of the
N's off, it becomes 616, as it is in some texts.
Thandarr
.
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| User: "cyclotron" |
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| Title: Re: Why did the Romans persecute the Christians? |
01 Mar 2006 08:02:48 AM |
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The big crime was they did the Jehova's witness bit and tried to
seel their religion to the Roman's in their own homes under the
vert shadows of their gods.
Seems they succeeded.
.
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
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| Title: Re: Why did the Romans persecute the Christians? |
01 Mar 2006 10:48:02 AM |
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On 1 Mar 2006 06:02:48 -0800, "cyclotron" <jffrycnt@netscape.net>
wrote:
The big crime was they did the Jehova's witness bit and tried to
seel their religion to the Roman's in their own homes under the
vert shadows of their gods.
Seems they succeeded.
And the rest is history
--
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
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| Title: Re: Why did the Romans persecute the Christians? |
01 Mar 2006 07:03:48 AM |
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On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 03:21:25 GMT, "Harshman" <skunks@insightbb.com>
wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Ze2dncbnEo6XcJ7ZRVn-rQ@comcast.com...
There is remarkably little evidence of any persecution by the Romans. It
probably was another isolated incident(s) that was mythologized.
According to biblical records (which have a great deal of historical value,
if you aren't freaked out by the fact that they're included in the Christian
bible), most of the persecution of the very early church was religious, not
political. Early Christianity was just a splinter sect of Judaism, after
all, and the Romans didn't seem to care to be involved when they could avoid
it. I'm not sure at exactly what point Rome became concerned with the
rapidly growing number of Christians within the empire.
Could the difference be that the Roman's were happy to tolerate
different religions in the native lands but they had better not bring
them and promote them in 'our' land and the heart of the Empire where
the gods dwell - Rome!
The jews did not try to convert the Roman's but the Christians did.
In regards to the "apocalyptic religion" theory, it's worth noting that a
fair percentage of Christians today still believe that Nero was the
AntiChrist. To them, the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem very much
was the end of the world, as the Jews knew it. And Preterists feel fine.
--
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
.
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| User: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Per_R=F8nne?=" |
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| Title: Re: Why did the Romans persecute the Christians? |
08 Mar 2006 08:59:23 AM |
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Les Hellawell <myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
Could the difference be that the Roman's were happy to tolerate
different religions in the native lands but they had better not bring
them and promote them in 'our' land and the heart of the Empire where
the gods dwell - Rome!
Well, the Egyptians /did/ take the Isis cult to Rome. Nevertheless, this
lead to no persecutions ...
--
Per Erik Rønne
http://www.RQNNE.dk
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Why did the Romans persecute the Christians? |
28 Feb 2006 08:26:29 AM |
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Geoff wrote:
<Codebreaker@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
news:1141088118.638051.300090@t39g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
erland@bredband.net wrote:
The Roman Empire was religiously tolerant. The state allowed people
from different parts of the empire to keep their own religions. Often,
old and new cults from different parts of the empire were merged
together, that is, there was a lot of _syncretism_ of religions.
But there was one exception from this Roman tolerance against
religions: Christianity. As I understand it, Christianity was illegal
in the Roman Empire from its appearance in the 1st century A.D. until
Emperor Constantine made it legal in the 4th century. There were many
Christian martyrs that were executed during this period, and there were
major waves of persecution about 250 A.D. during Emperor Decius and
about 300 A.D. during Emperor Diocletian.
Why? What was the difference between Christianity and other religions,
that made the Romans feel it necessary to ban Christianity and to
persecute and execute Christians?
After all, most Christians were law abiding citizens that just wanted
to mind their own business and, to some extent, convert others. Yet, to
waste so much energy and resources in persecution of Christians, the
Romans must have considered the Christians as a seriuos threat against
society. What was that threat they perceived?
One possible answer is that the Christians refused to worship the
Emperor, a costum that was made mandatory by the state, and that most
other religions accepted. But this can hardly be all of it, because the
Jews didn't worship the Emperor either, and the Romans granted them an
exception from that rule. Why couldn't the Christians get a similar
exception?
Could it be the apocalyptics of Early Christianity that was the
problem? The Early Christians believed in a Second Coming of Christ in
the _near_ future, when major upheavals would occur and the world as
they knew it would be destroyed. Perhaps the Romans feared that the
Christians would not just passively wait for this, but also actively
try to cause these upheavals and destruction? If so, the Romans would
naturally consider the Christians as very dangerous potential
troublemakers. And perpaps this fear wasn't entirely unfounded.
Couldn't there actually have existed fringe Christians that wanted to
expedite the Second Coming of Christ in this way? If so, the blame cast
upon the Christians by Emperor Nero for setting fire to Rome in 64 A.D.
might have appeared as quite justified by the public...
JESUS AND NOT CAESAR WAS THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD.
THAT WAS THE ONLY SIN THEY WERE ACCUSED TO HAVE
COMMITTED.
Down with Caesar.
But that's only my own speculations. Does anybode have some more
definite knowledge about this?
There is remarkably little evidence of any persecution by the Romans. It
probably was another isolated incident(s) that was mythologized.
In Caesrea de Phillipi where the "Gospel" put in Peter's mouth
the famous, "You are Christ, the Son Of the Living God" a temple
where Caesar was worshipped was said to be located.
Is this what you call MYTHOLOGIZED?
.
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| User: "Martin Edwards" |
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| Title: Re: Why did the Romans persecute the Christians? |
28 Feb 2006 11:54:40 AM |
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wrote:
Geoff wrote:
< > wrote in message
news:1141088118.638051.300090@t39g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
erland@bredband.net wrote:
The Roman Empire was religiously tolerant. The state allowed people
from different parts of the empire to keep their own religions. Often,
old and new cults from different parts of the empire were merged
together, that is, there was a lot of _syncretism_ of religions.
But there was one exception from this Roman tolerance against
religions: Christianity. As I understand it, Christianity was illegal
in the Roman Empire from its appearance in the 1st century A.D. until
Emperor Constantine made it legal in the 4th century. There were many
Christian martyrs that were executed during this period, and there were
major waves of persecution about 250 A.D. during Emperor Decius and
about 300 A.D. during Emperor Diocletian.
Why? What was the difference between Christianity and other religions,
that made the Romans feel it necessary to ban Christianity and to
persecute and execute Christians?
After all, most Christians were law abiding citizens that just wanted
to mind their own business and, to some extent, convert others. Yet, to
waste so much energy and resources in persecution of Christians, the
Romans must have considered the Christians as a seriuos threat against
society. What was that threat they perceived?
One possible answer is that the Christians refused to worship the
Emperor, a costum that was made mandatory by the state, and that most
other religions accepted. But this can hardly be all of it, because the
Jews didn't worship the Emperor either, and the Romans granted them an
exception from that rule. Why couldn't the Christians get a similar
exception?
Could it be the apocalyptics of Early Christianity that was the
problem? The Early Christians believed in a Second Coming of Christ in
the _near_ future, when major upheavals would occur and the world as
they knew it would be destroyed. Perhaps the Romans feared that the
Christians would not just passively wait for this, but also actively
try to cause these upheavals and destruction? If so, the Romans would
naturally consider the Christians as very dangerous potential
troublemakers. And perpaps this fear wasn't entirely unfounded.
Couldn't there actually have existed fringe Christians that wanted to
expedite the Second Coming of Christ in this way? If so, the blame cast
upon the Christians by Emperor Nero for setting fire to Rome in 64 A.D.
might have appeared as quite justified by the public...
JESUS AND NOT CAESAR WAS THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD.
THAT WAS THE ONLY SIN THEY WERE ACCUSED TO HAVE
COMMITTED.
Down with Caesar.
But that's only my own speculations. Does anybode have some more
definite knowledge about this?
There is remarkably little evidence of any persecution by the Romans. It
probably was another isolated incident(s) that was mythologized.
In Caesrea de Phillipi where the "Gospel" put in Peter's mouth
the famous, "You are Christ, the Son Of the Living God" a temple
where Caesar was worshipped was said to be located.
Is this what you call MYTHOLOGIZED?
He is talking about the putative persecution. What does a temple have
to do with it?
--
You can't fool me: there ain't no Sanity Clause - Chico Marx
www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1955
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Why did the Romans persecute the Christians? |
28 Feb 2006 01:09:32 PM |
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Martin Edwards wrote:
Codebreaker@bigsecret.com wrote:
Geoff wrote:
<Codebreaker@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
news:1141088118.638051.300090@t39g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
erland@bredband.net wrote:
The Roman Empire was religiously tolerant. The state allowed people
from different parts of the empire to keep their own religions. Often,
old and new cults from different parts of the empire were merged
together, that is, there was a lot of _syncretism_ of religions.
But there was one exception from this Roman tolerance against
religions: Christianity. As I understand it, Christianity was illegal
in the Roman Empire from its appearance in the 1st century A.D. until
Emperor Constantine made it legal in the 4th century. There were many
Christian martyrs that were executed during this period, and there were
major waves of persecution about 250 A.D. during Emperor Decius and
about 300 A.D. during Emperor Diocletian.
Why? What was the difference between Christianity and other religions,
that made the Romans feel it necessary to ban Christianity and to
persecute and execute Christians?
After all, most Christians were law abiding citizens that just wanted
to mind their own business and, to some extent, convert others. Yet, to
waste so much energy and resources in persecution of Christians, the
Romans must have considered the Christians as a seriuos threat against
society. What was that threat they perceived?
One possible answer is that the Christians refused to worship the
Emperor, a costum that was made mandatory by the state, and that most
other religions accepted. But this can hardly be all of it, because the
Jews didn't worship the Emperor either, and the Romans granted them an
exception from that rule. Why couldn't the Christians get a similar
exception?
Could it be the apocalyptics of Early Christianity that was the
problem? The Early Christians believed in a Second Coming of Christ in
the _near_ future, when major upheavals would occur and the world as
they knew it would be destroyed. Perhaps the Romans feared that the
Christians would not just passively wait for this, but also actively
try to cause these upheavals and destruction? If so, the Romans would
naturally consider the Christians as very dangerous potential
troublemakers. And perpaps this fear wasn't entirely unfounded.
Couldn't there actually have existed fringe Christians that wanted to
expedite the Second Coming of Christ in this way? If so, the blame cast
upon the Christians by Emperor Nero for setting fire to Rome in 64 A.D.
might have appeared as quite justified by the public...
JESUS AND NOT CAESAR WAS THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD.
THAT WAS THE ONLY SIN THEY WERE ACCUSED TO HAVE
COMMITTED.
Down with Caesar.
But that's only my own speculations. Does anybode have some more
definite knowledge about this?
There is remarkably little evidence of any persecution by the Romans. It
probably was another isolated incident(s) that was mythologized.
In Caesrea de Phillipi where the "Gospel" put in Peter's mouth
the famous, "You are Christ, the Son Of the Living God" a temple
where Caesar was worshipped was said to be located.
Is this what you call MYTHOLOGIZED?
He is talking about the putative persecution. What does a temple have
to do with it?
Jesus and not Caesar is the Son Of The Living God.
That was their onnly sin
--
You can't fool me: there ain't no Sanity Clause - Chico Marx
www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1955
.
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| User: "Geoff" |
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| Title: Re: Why did the Romans persecute the Christians? |
28 Feb 2006 03:09:57 PM |
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<Codebreaker@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
news:1141153772.500480.292250@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
[..]
There is remarkably little evidence of any persecution by the Romans.
It
probably was another isolated incident(s) that was mythologized.
In Caesrea de Phillipi where the "Gospel" put in Peter's mouth
the famous, "You are Christ, the Son Of the Living God" a temple
where Caesar was worshipped was said to be located.
Is this what you call MYTHOLOGIZED?
He is talking about the putative persecution. What does a temple have
to do with it?
Jesus and not Caesar is the Son Of The Living God.
That was their onnly sin.
Some people can write very concisely and get their point across with an
economy of words. You are not one. No one knows what the heck you are
talking about.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Why did the Romans persecute the Christians? |
01 Mar 2006 10:57:58 AM |
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Geoff wrote:
<Codebreaker@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
news:1141153772.500480.292250@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
[..]
There is remarkably little evidence of any persecution by the Romans.
It
probably was another isolated incident(s) that was mythologized.
In Caesrea de Phillipi where the "Gospel" put in Peter's mouth
the famous, "You are Christ, the Son Of the Living God" a temple
where Caesar was worshipped was said to be located.
Is this what you call MYTHOLOGIZED?
He is talking about the putative persecution. What does a temple have
to do with it?
Jesus and not Caesar is the Son Of The Living God.
That was their onnly sin.
Some people can write very concisely and get their point across with an
economy of words. You are not one. No one knows what the heck you are
talking about.
As If I ever told you that I was one.
Anyway Jesus and not Caesar was the Son of the Living God
This was the only sin they were accused of committing.
.
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| User: "deowll" |
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| Title: Re: Why did the Romans persecute the Christians? |
01 Mar 2006 10:08:42 PM |
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"codebreaker@bigsecret.com" <Codebreaker@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
news:1141232278.029293.261380@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Geoff wrote:
<Codebreaker@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
news:1141153772.500480.292250@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
[..]
There is remarkably little evidence of any persecution by the
Romans.
It
probably was another isolated incident(s) that was mythologized.
In Caesrea de Phillipi where the "Gospel" put in Peter's mouth
the famous, "You are Christ, the Son Of the Living God" a temple
where Caesar was worshipped was said to be located.
Is this what you call MYTHOLOGIZED?
He is talking about the putative persecution. What does a temple have
to do with it?
Jesus and not Caesar is the Son Of The Living God.
That was their onnly sin.
Some people can write very concisely and get their point across with an
economy of words. You are not one. No one knows what the heck you are
talking about.
As If I ever told you that I was one.
Anyway Jesus and not Caesar was the Son of the Living God
This was the only sin they were accused of committing.
You need to read more than your own lit. Some of the original texts or at
least copies of same are still around and you just told a fib.
.
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| User: "Martin Edwards" |
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| Title: Re: Why did the Romans persecute the Christians? |
01 Mar 2006 11:52:55 AM |
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wrote:
Martin Edwards wrote:
wrote:
Geoff wrote:
< > wrote in message
news:1141088118.638051.300090@t39g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
erland@bredband.net wrote:
The Roman Empire was religiously tolerant. The state allowed people
from different parts of the empire to keep their own religions. Often,
old and new cults from different parts of the empire were merged
together, that is, there was a lot of _syncretism_ of religions.
But there was one exception from this Roman tolerance against
religions: Christianity. As I understand it, Christianity was illegal
in the Roman Empire from its appearance in the 1st century A.D. until
Emperor Constantine made it legal in the 4th century. There were many
Christian martyrs that were executed during this period, and there were
major waves of persecution about 250 A.D. during Emperor Decius and
about 300 A.D. during Emperor Diocletian.
Why? What was the difference between Christianity and other religions,
that made the Romans feel it necessary to ban Christianity and to
persecute and execute Christians?
After all, most Christians were law abiding citizens that just wanted
to mind their own business and, to some extent, convert others. Yet, to
waste so much energy and resources in persecution of Christians, the
Romans must have considered the Christians as a seriuos threat against
society. What was that threat they perceived?
One possible answer is that the Christians refused to worship the
Emperor, a costum that was made mandatory by the state, and that most
other religions accepted. But this can hardly be all of it, because the
Jews didn't worship the Emperor either, and the Romans granted them an
exception from that rule. Why couldn't the Christians get a similar
exception?
Could it be the apocalyptics of Early Christianity that was the
problem? The Early Christians believed in a Second Coming of Christ in
the _near_ future, when major upheavals would occur and the world as
they knew it would be destroyed. Perhaps the Romans feared that the
Christians would not just passively wait for this, but also actively
try to cause these upheavals and destruction? If so, the Romans would
naturally consider the Christians as very dangerous potential
troublemakers. And perpaps this fear wasn't entirely unfounded.
Couldn't there actually have existed fringe Christians that wanted to
expedite the Second Coming of Christ in this way? If so, the blame cast
upon the Christians by Emperor Nero for setting fire to Rome in 64 A.D.
might have appeared as quite justified by the public...
JESUS AND NOT CAESAR WAS THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD.
THAT WAS THE ONLY SIN THEY WERE ACCUSED TO HAVE
COMMITTED.
Down with Caesar.
But that's only my own speculations. Does anybode have some more
definite knowledge about this?
There is remarkably little evidence of any persecution by the Romans. It
probably was another isolated incident(s) that was mythologized.
In Caesrea de Phillipi where the "Gospel" put in Peter's mouth
the famous, "You are Christ, the Son Of the Living God" a temple
where Caesar was worshipped was said to be located.
Is this what you call MYTHOLOGIZED?
He is talking about the putative persecution. What does a temple have
to do with it?
Jesus and not Caesar is the Son Of The Living God.
That was their onnly sin
There is no such thing as the son of a god and, if there was a real
Jesus, he lived in the first century CE.
--
You can't fool me: there ain't no Sanity Clause - Chico Marx
www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1955
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Why did the Romans persecute the Christians? |
01 Mar 2006 12:59:47 PM |
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Martin Edwards wrote:
Codebreaker@bigsecret.com wrote:
Martin Edwards wrote:
Codebreaker@bigsecret.com wrote:
Geoff wrote:
<Codebreaker@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
news:1141088118.638051.300090@t39g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
erland@bredband.net wrote:
The Roman Empire was religiously tolerant. The state allowed people
from different parts of the empire to keep their own religions. Often,
old and new cults from different parts of the empire were merged
together, that is, there was a lot of _syncretism_ of religions.
But there was one exception from this Roman tolerance against
religions: Christianity. As I understand it, Christianity was illegal
in the Roman Empire from its appearance in the 1st century A.D. until
Emperor Constantine made it legal in the 4th century. There were many
Christian martyrs that were executed during this period, and there were
major waves of persecution about 250 A.D. during Emperor Decius and
about 300 A.D. during Emperor Diocletian.
Why? What was the difference between Christianity and other religions,
that made the Romans feel it necessary to ban Christianity and to
persecute and execute Christians?
After all, most Christians were law abiding citizens that just wanted
to mind their own business and, to some extent, convert others. Yet, to
waste so much energy and resources in persecution of Christians, the
Romans must have considered the Christians as a seriuos threat against
society. What was that threat they perceived?
One possible answer is that the Christians refused to worship the
Emperor, a costum that was made mandatory by the state, and that most
other religions accepted. But this can hardly be all of it, because the
Jews didn't worship the Emperor either, and the Romans granted them an
exception from that rule. Why couldn't the Christians get a similar
exception?
Could it be the apocalyptics of Early Christianity that was the
problem? The Early Christians believed in a Second Coming of Christ in
the _near_ future, when major upheavals would occur and the world as
they knew it would be destroyed. Perhaps the Romans feared that the
Christians would not just passively wait for this, but also actively
try to cause these upheavals and destruction? If so, the Romans would
naturally consider the Christians as very dangerous potential
troublemakers. And perpaps this fear wasn't entirely unfounded.
Couldn't there actually have existed fringe Christians that wanted to
expedite the Second Coming of Christ in this way? If so, the blame cast
upon the Christians by Emperor Nero for setting fire to Rome in 64 A.D.
might have appeared as quite justified by the public...
JESUS AND NOT CAESAR WAS THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD.
THAT WAS THE ONLY SIN THEY WERE ACCUSED TO HAVE
COMMITTED.
Down with Caesar.
But that's only my own speculations. Does anybode have some more
definite knowledge about this?
There is remarkably little evidence of any persecution by the Romans. It
probably was another isolated incident(s) that was mythologized.
In Caesrea de Phillipi where the "Gospel" put in Peter's mouth
the famous, "You are Christ, the Son Of the Living God" a temple
where Caesar was worshipped was said to be located.
Is this what you call MYTHOLOGIZED?
He is talking about the putative persecution. What does a temple have
to do with it?
Jesus and not Caesar is the Son Of The Living God.
That was their onnly sin
There is no such thing as the son of a god and, if there was a real
Jesus, he lived in the first century CE.
Tell this to those who were afraid and thought they were
threatened by that statement. They killed thousand innocents
martyres
--
You can't fool me: there ain't no Sanity Clause - Chico Marx
www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1955
.
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| User: "Martin Edwards" |
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| Title: Re: Why did the Romans persecute the Christians? |
02 Mar 2006 11:11:56 AM |
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wrote:
Martin Edwards wrote:
Codebreaker@bigsecret.com wrote:
Martin Edwards wrote:
Codebreaker@bigsecret.com wrote:
Geoff wrote:
<Codebreaker@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
news:1141088118.638051.300090@t39g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
erland@bredband.net wrote:
The Roman Empire was religiously tolerant. The state allowed people
from different parts of the empire to keep their own religions. Often,
old and new cults from different parts of the empire were merged
together, that is, there was a lot of _syncretism_ of religions.
But there was one exception from this Roman tolerance against
religions: Christianity. As I understand it, Christianity was illegal
in the Roman Empire from its appearance in the 1st century A.D. until
Emperor Constantine made it legal in the 4th century. There were many
Christian martyrs that were executed during this period, and there were
major waves of persecution about 250 A.D. during Emperor Decius and
about 300 A.D. during Emperor Diocletian.
Why? What was the difference between Christianity and other religions,
that made the Romans feel it necessary to ban Christianity and to
persecute and execute Christians?
After all, most Christians were law abiding citizens that just wanted
to mind their own business and, to some extent, convert others. Yet, to
waste so much energy and resources in persecution of Christians, the
Romans must have considered the Christians as a seriuos threat against
society. What was that threat they perceived?
One possible answer is that the Christians refused to worship the
Emperor, a costum that was made mandatory by the state, and that most
other religions accepted. But this can hardly be all of it, because the
Jews didn't worship the Emperor either, and the Romans granted them an
exception from that rule. Why couldn't the Christians get a similar
exception?
Could it be the apocalyptics of Early Christianity that was the
problem? The Early Christians believed in a Second Coming of Christ in
the _near_ future, when major upheavals would occur and the world as
they knew it would be destroyed. Perhaps the Romans feared that the
Christians would not just passively wait for this, but also actively
try to cause these upheavals and destruction? If so, the Romans would
naturally consider the Christians as very dangerous potential
troublemakers. And perpaps this fear wasn't entirely unfounded.
Couldn't there actually have existed fringe Christians that wanted to
expedite the Second Coming of Christ in this way? If so, the blame cast
upon the Christians by Emperor Nero for setting fire to Rome in 64 A.D.
might have appeared as quite justified by the public...
JESUS AND NOT CAESAR WAS THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD.
THAT WAS THE ONLY SIN THEY WERE ACCUSED TO HAVE
COMMITTED.
Down with Caesar.
But that's only my own speculations. Does anybode have some more
definite knowledge about this?
There is remarkably little evidence of any persecution by the Romans. It
probably was another isolated incident(s) that was mythologized.
In Caesrea de Phillipi where the "Gospel" put in Peter's mouth
the famous, "You are Christ, the Son Of the Living God" a temple
where Caesar was worshipped was said to be located.
Is this what you call MYTHOLOGIZED?
He is talking about the putative persecution. What does a temple have
to do with it?
Jesus and not Caesar is the Son Of The Living God.
That was their onnly sin
There is no such thing as the son of a god and, if there was a real
Jesus, he lived in the first century CE.
Tell this to those who were afraid and thought they were
threatened by that statement. They killed thousand innocents
martyres
Made up.
--
You can't fool me: there ain't no Sanity Clause - Chico Marx
www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1955
.
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: Why did the Romans persecute the Christians? |
02 Mar 2006 12:06:21 PM |
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<snip>
There is no such thing as the son of a god and, if there was a real
Jesus, he lived in the first century CE.
Tell this to those who were afraid and thought they were
threatened by that statement. They killed thousand innocents
martyres
Be happy to if you supply some names and addresses.
Oh, sorry they are dead, just like all the people killed by one group of
christians who did not believe what another group believed.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Why did the Romans persecute the Christians? |
02 Mar 2006 12:14:17 PM |
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Mike Painter wrote:
<snip>
There is no such thing as the son of a god and, if there was a real
Jesus, he lived in the first century CE.
Tell this to those who were afraid and thought they were
threatened by that statement. They killed thousand innocents
martyres
Be happy to if you supply some names and addresses.
Oh, sorry they are dead, just like all the people killed by one group of
christians who did not believe what another group believed.
This is not making your point that Jesus never existed.
2 groups of Christians are still believres in Christ no matter
what the interpretative doctrinal difference is.
.
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| User: "Martin Edwards" |
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| Title: Re: Why did the Romans persecute the Christians? |
03 Mar 2006 10:44:37 AM |
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wrote:
Mike Painter wrote:
<snip>
There is no such thing as the son of a god and, if there was a real
Jesus, he lived in the first century CE.
Tell this to those who were afraid and thought they were
threatened by that statement. They killed thousand innocents
martyres
Be happy to if you supply some names and addresses.
Oh, sorry they are dead, just like all the people killed by one group of
christians who did not believe what another group believed.
This is not making your point that Jesus never existed.
2 groups of Christians are still believres in Christ no matter
what the interpretative doctrinal difference is.
Check this out:
www.jesusneverexisted.com
--
You can't fool me: there ain't no Sanity Clause - Chico Marx
www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1955
.
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| User: "deowll" |
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| Title: Re: Why did the Romans persecute the Christians? |
06 Mar 2006 08:29:08 PM |
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"Martin Edwards" <big_mart_98@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:du9rpi$jrf$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
codebreaker@bigsecret.com wrote:
Mike Painter wrote:
<snip>
There is no such thing as the son of a god and, if there was a real
Jesus, he lived in the first century CE.
Tell this to those who were afraid and thought they were
threatened by that statement. They killed thousand innocents
martyres
Be happy to if you supply some names and addresses.
Oh, sorry they are dead, just like all the people killed by one group of
christians who did not believe what another group believed.
This is not making your point that Jesus never existed.
2 groups of Christians are still believres in Christ no matter
what the interpretative doctrinal difference is.
Check this out:
www.jesusneverexisted.com
Bad URL and it does not matter. If you are a Christian you are a follower of
Christ. If you don't, you need another title.
--
You can't fool me: there ain't no Sanity Clause - Chico Marx
www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1955
.
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| User: "Martin Edwards" |
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| Title: Re: Why did the Romans persecute the Christians? |
07 Mar 2006 12:41:29 PM |
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deowll wrote:
"Martin Edwards" <big_mart_98@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:du9rpi$jrf$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
codebreaker@bigsecret.com wrote:
Mike Painter wrote:
<snip>
There is no such thing as the son of a god and, if there was a real
Jesus, he lived in the first century CE.
Tell this to those who were afraid and thought they were
threatened by that statement. They killed thousand innocents
martyres
Be happy to if you supply some names and addresses.
Oh, sorry they are dead, just like all the people killed by one group of
christians who did not believe what another group believed.
This is not making your point that Jesus never existed.
2 groups of Christians are still believres in Christ no matter
what the interpretative doctrinal difference is.
Check this out:
www.jesusneverexisted.com
Bad URL and it does not matter. If you are a Christian you are a follower of
Christ. If you don't, you need another title.
Usually it's a perfectly good URL: I've only failed to connect once or
twice. How can someone alive today be a follower of someone who, if he
existed at all, died in 33 CE?
--
You can't fool me: there ain't no Sanity Clause - Chico Marx
www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1955
.
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| User: "cyclotron" |
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| Title: Re: Why did the Romans persecute the Christians? |
08 Mar 2006 12:33:41 AM |
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Martin Edwards asked:
How can someone alive today be a follower of someone who, if he
existed at all, died in 33 CE?
I'll take the bait.
We come to Jesus by faith, believing in his resurrection. Up to that
point we can only follow what we have read and heard, like followers of
other religions. But at the point of true conversion something else
happens. He manifests himself to us. This is what it means that he
"makes his abode" with us, or "dwells in us". The Holy Spirit is not
just a concept, but a very real person that we experience, driving out
doubts and foolish notions and transforming our very nature and
desires. If we continue to abide in him, we will understand his will
and do it. That is the Christian life in a nutshell. Where can you go
away from his Spirit? Where can you go to escape his burning gaze? He
parts the curtain. He knows your every thought. He sees right into you.
He knows your heart.
And that is why the Romans persecuted the Christians.
Because they did not understand their confidence and unwavering faith,
which came by the Holy Spirit. It infuriated them. That is also what
they admired and why so many of the persecutors themselves became
believers. Even today, God loves even those who express hatred for him
and his people, and is patient to draw them to himself. Check out the
movie the End of the Spear and see the true story of how a man's
sacrifice of his life to reach a tribe locked in a cycle of vengeance
in the Amazon led to his killer's conversion.
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Why did the Romans persecute the Christians? |
09 Mar 2006 07:05:16 AM |
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On 7 Mar 2006 22:33:41 -0800, "cyclotron" <jffrycnt@netscape.net>
wrote:
Martin Edwards asked:
How can someone alive today be a follower of someone who, if he
existed at all, died in 33 CE?
I'll take the bait.
We come to Jesus by faith, believing in his resurrection. Up to that
point we can only follow what we have read and heard, like followers ofr
other religions. But at the point of true conversion something else
happens. He manifests himself to us. This is what it means that he
"makes his abode" with us, or "dwells in us". The Holy Spirit is not
just a concept, but a very real person that we experience, driving out
doubts and foolish notions and transforming our very nature and
desires. If we continue to abide in him, we will understand his will
and do it. That is the Christian life in a nutshell. Where can you go
away from his Spirit? Where can you go to escape his burning gaze? He
parts the curtain. He knows your every thought. He sees right into you.
He knows your heart.
Can't you jerks say anything without preaching?
And that is why the Romans persecuted the Christians.
Nope. That is the Christian martyr complex speaking.
Because they did not understand their confidence and unwavering faith,
which came by the Holy Spirit. It infuriated them. That is also what
Complete and utter *****.
they admired and why so many of the persecutors themselves became
believers. Even today, God loves even those who express hatred for him
Liar.
and his people, and is patient to draw them to himself. Check out the
movie the End of the Spear and see the true story of how a man's
sacrifice of his life to reach a tribe locked in a cycle of vengeance
in the Amazon led to his killer's conversion.
Standard in-your-face Christian stupidity, nastiness and slander.
.
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| User: "Martin Edwards" |
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| Title: Re: Why did the Romans persecute the Christians? |
08 Mar 2006 11:42:47 AM |
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cyclotron wrote:
Martin Edwards asked:
How can someone alive today be a follower of someone who, if he
existed at all, died in 33 CE?
I'll take the bait.
We come to Jesus by faith, believing in his resurrection. Up to that
point we can only follow what we have read and heard, like followers of
other religions. But at the point of true conversion something else
happens. He manifests himself to us. This is what it means that he
"makes his abode" with us, or "dwells in us". The Holy Spirit is not
just a concept, but a very real person that we experience, driving out
doubts and foolish notions and transforming our very nature and
desires. If we continue to abide in him, we will understand his will
and do it. That is the Christian life in a nutshell. Where can you go
away from his Spirit? Where can you go to escape his burning gaze? He
parts the curtain. He knows your every thought. He sees right into you.
He knows your heart.
I was told all that but it never happened.
--
You can't fool me: there ain't no Sanity Clause - Chico Marx
www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1955
.
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| User: "DanielSan" |
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| Title: Re: Why did the Romans persecute the Christians? |
08 Mar 2006 08:03:34 AM |
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cyclotron wrote:
Martin Edwards asked:
How can someone alive today be a follower of someone who, if he
existed at all, died in 33 CE?
I'll take the bait.
We come to Jesus by faith, believing in his resurrection. Up to that
point we can only follow what we have read and heard, like followers of
other religions. But at the point of true conversion something else
happens. He manifests himself to us. This is what it means that he
"makes his abode" with us, or "dwells in us". The Holy Spirit is not
just a concept, but a very real person that we experience, driving out
doubts and foolish notions and transforming our very nature and
desires. If we continue to abide in him, we will understand his will
and do it. That is the Christian life in a nutshell. Where can you go
away from his Spirit? Where can you go to escape his burning gaze? He
parts the curtain. He knows your every thought. He sees right into you.
He knows your heart.
He sees you when you're sleeping, he knows when you're awake, he knows
if you've been bad or good, so be good for goodness' sake?
I agree that there are those that died many many years ago whom people
look to for guidance. However, there are other people that do not seek
such guidance and it is wrong for those that sought the guidance to
attempt to push it onto those that do not wish it.
And that is why the Romans persecuted the Christians.
Because they did not understand their confidence and unwavering faith,
which came by the Holy Spirit. It infuriated them.
Plus, it took attention away from them. Christianity has its own
version of that, as in the 10 Commandments: "There shall be no other
gods but Me."
That is also what
they admired and why so many of the persecutors themselves became
believers. Even today, God loves even those who express hatred for him
and his people, and is patient to draw them to himself. Check out the
movie the End of the Spear and see the true story of how a man's
sacrifice of his life to reach a tribe locked in a cycle of vengeance
in the Amazon led to his killer's conversion.
Well, not to worry, cyclotron. You're about 85% of America and a third
of the entire world. You do not need to feel persecuted anymore.
Indeed, you should now look to those that are currently being persecuted
by the selfsame Christians. People like atheists.
--
****************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*--------------------------------------------------*
* "In every country and in every age, the priest *
* has been hostile to liberty. He is always in *
* alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in *
* return for protection to his own." *
* --Jefferson (in a letter to H. Spafford, 1814) *
****************************************************
--
*** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com ***
*** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from http://www.SecureIX.com ***
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Why did the Romans persecute the Christians? |
08 Mar 2006 12:55:30 AM |
|
|
cyclotron wrote:
Martin Edwards asked:
How can someone alive today be a follower of someone who, if he
existed at all, died in 33 CE?
I'll take the bait.
We come to Jesus by faith, believing in his resurrection. Up to that
point we can only follow what we have read and heard, like followers of
other religions. But at the point of true conversion something else
happens. He manifests himself to us.
And your proof of this is...?
This is what it means that he
"makes his abode" with us, or "dwells in us". The Holy Spirit is not
just a concept, but a very real person that we experience, driving out
doubts and foolish notions and transforming our very nature and
desires. If we continue to abide in him, we will understand his will
and do it.
And recent studies suggest that it may simply be brain activity.
http://www.onset.unsw.edu.au/issue4/neuroreligion/neuroscience%20and%20religion.htm
That is the Christian life in a nutshell.
Nutshell. Good place for a nut.
Where can you go
away from his Spirit? Where can you go to escape his burning gaze? He
parts the curtain. He knows your every thought. He sees right into you.
He knows your heart.
Sounds like paranoia to me. No, thanks!
And that is why the Romans persecuted the Christians.
Because they did not understand their confidence and unwavering faith,
which came by the Holy Spirit. It infuriated them.
Infuriated by a group they didn't even know existed before the mid 2nd
century CE?
That is also what
they admired and why so many of the persecutors themselves became
believers.
So, no Roman politics, no panic in a fragmenting empire. I doubt that
reflects modern hypothoses on the matter.
Even today, God loves even those who express hatred for him
and his people, and is patient to draw them to himself. Check out the
movie the End of the Spear and see the true story of how a man's
sacrifice of his life to reach a tribe locked in a cycle of vengeance
in the Amazon led to his killer's conversion.
"I saw it in a movie"? That's your answer? Good grief. A christian
needs a computer like a fish needs an electron microscope.
-Panama Floyd, Atl.
aa#2015, Member Knights of BAAWA!
EAC Pace Car Driver
"..the prayer cloth of one aeon is the doormat of the next."
-Mark Twain
Religious societies are *less* moral than secular ones:
http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html
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