| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Clayton...Strong Atheist...Weak Bladder!" |
| Date: |
26 Jul 2003 07:09:43 PM |
| Object: |
Re: why do non believers need a badge? |
"JethroUK©" <reply@the.board> wrote in message
news:l4mUa.2017$G85.2014@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net...
i thought 'atheists' just dont beleive in god
if so, why do you need a badge?
why not just 'not beleive'
Yes, we should just cower in the dark with our mouths closed and not bother
the world with our existence! I mean alt.atheism only gets about 1500 posts
a day...so apparently we have nothing to say, no opinions to express and
nothing to debate or defend. After all, it's not like religion has any bad
effect on the world that we may want to speak out against. And why should
be want the world to know that we don't want their religion forced down our
throats by government or have our basic democratic rights violated? Why
would we want other people to understand and appreciate atheism, dispel the
myths and lies and hatred against atheism and let the world hear what we
feel are the benefits of a totally secular society? Why would we want our
opinions and points of view unpolluted by religion and theism be
heard....why on Earth would we want to connect and communicate and debate
with others with a similar non-belief??? Why should we want our voices
heard and our human and civil rights recognized...after all we are just
going to end up burning in hell anyway!! We should just keep our evil "God
hating" opinions to ourselves. Just like them damn homosexuals....why would
they want the world to know they are there....they should just hide
themselves from the world so they don't offend the religious. Hell if they
get jailed or beaten occasionally then they shouldn't have open their *****
mouths huh!!! Anyone and anything that isn't white, straight and Christian
should just keep it's damn mouth shut!!!
.
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| User: "JethroUK©" |
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| Title: Re: why do non believers need a badge? |
27 Jul 2003 08:59:50 AM |
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"Clayton...Strong Atheist...Weak Bladder!" <cjfat@SPAMBLOCKoptusnet.com.au>
wrote in message news:3f231767$0$1207$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"JethroUK©" <reply@the.board> wrote in message
news:l4mUa.2017$G85.2014@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net...
i thought 'atheists' just dont beleive in god
if so, why do you need a badge?
why not just 'not beleive'
Yes, we should just cower in the dark with our mouths closed and not
bother
the world with our existence!
not at all - but the definatives 'a-theist' doesn't give a damn about
religion - consequently, if you do (and you're entitled to have an opinion
on religion) then you need a different badge
I mean alt.atheism only gets about 1500 posts
a day...so apparently we have nothing to say, no opinions to express and
nothing to debate or defend. After all, it's not like religion has any
bad
effect on the world that we may want to speak out against. And why should
be want the world to know that we don't want their religion forced down
our
throats by government or have our basic democratic rights violated? Why
would we want other people to understand and appreciate atheism, dispel
the
myths and lies and hatred against atheism and let the world hear what we
feel are the benefits of a totally secular society? Why would we want our
opinions and points of view unpolluted by religion and theism be
heard....why on Earth would we want to connect and communicate and debate
with others with a similar non-belief??? Why should we want our voices
heard and our human and civil rights recognized...after all we are just
going to end up burning in hell anyway!! We should just keep our evil
"God
hating" opinions to ourselves. Just like them damn homosexuals....why
would
they want the world to know they are there....they should just hide
themselves from the world so they don't offend the religious. Hell if
they
get jailed or beaten occasionally then they shouldn't have open their
*****
mouths huh!!! Anyone and anything that isn't white, straight and
Christian
should just keep it's damn mouth shut!!!
.
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| User: "Clayton...Strong Atheist...Weak Bladder!" |
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| Title: Re: why do non believers need a badge? |
27 Jul 2003 09:17:21 PM |
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"JethroUK©" <reply@the.board> wrote in message
news:GYQUa.3002$G85.1116@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net...
"Clayton...Strong Atheist...Weak Bladder!"
<cjfat@SPAMBLOCKoptusnet.com.au>
wrote in message news:3f231767$0$1207$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"JethroUK©" <reply@the.board> wrote in message
news:l4mUa.2017$G85.2014@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net...
i thought 'atheists' just dont beleive in god
if so, why do you need a badge?
why not just 'not beleive'
Yes, we should just cower in the dark with our mouths closed and not
bother
the world with our existence!
not at all - but the definatives 'a-theist' doesn't give a damn about
religion - consequently, if you do (and you're entitled to have an opinion
on religion) then you need a different badge
You really are a fool, aren't you! There are no badges...that's your
delusion, not mine! The word exists...it describes me...it describes most
of the others here..it's something we have in common...I have many other
facets to me.....so does everyone else....we meet here in a place where one
point meets...our lack of belief in God/Goddesses/Gods...we talk...we
discuss...we have differences...and we want the right to live our lives and
those of people who share our points of view to be respected and protected.
There are countless things we disagree with. There are countless things we
agree with. All atheists have totally different beliefs and non-beliefs and
opinions and standards and wants and needs. If our facets meet then we have
the option to band together under any banner we want....since we are in this
group the places were we are most likely to join is atheism...and try and
achieve or at least discuss things. Many in here will disagree with any and
all opinions and suggestions and still be atheists...even if it is the
majority view of the people in this group who just happen to be atheists.
Atheism is not a religion...it is not a dogma...it is not a cookie cutter
mind set...it is not a militia or schooling system. Every atheist is
different and that makes for a wonderful tapestry of discussion. Atheism is
not a badge it is just one thing...one important factor out of many in the
way we think and act....were our various lines meet!
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: why do non believers need a badge? |
27 Jul 2003 10:47:07 AM |
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JethroUK© <reply@the.board> wrote in alt.atheism
Clayton...Strong Atheist...Weak Bladder! wrote
JethroUK© <reply@the.board> wrote in message
why not just 'not beleive'
Yes, we should just cower in the dark with our mouths closed and not
bother the world with our existence!
not at all - but the definatives 'a-theist' doesn't give a damn about
religion - consequently, if you do (and you're entitled to have an opinion
on religion) then you need a different badge
What do you think about "Brights?" It's a new term for atheists
that some people seem to be using these days.
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news
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| User: "Clayton...Strong Atheist...Weak Bladder!" |
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| Title: Re: why do non believers need a badge? |
27 Jul 2003 09:19:36 PM |
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"Elroy Willis" <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:74s7iv49c01skhjtibf95g9vqtqu9kb3h5@4ax.com...
JethroUK© <reply@the.board> wrote in alt.atheism
Clayton...Strong Atheist...Weak Bladder! wrote
JethroUK© <reply@the.board> wrote in message
why not just 'not beleive'
Yes, we should just cower in the dark with our mouths closed and not
bother the world with our existence!
not at all - but the definatives 'a-theist' doesn't give a damn about
religion - consequently, if you do (and you're entitled to have an
opinion
on religion) then you need a different badge
What do you think about "Brights?" It's a new term for atheists
that some people seem to be using these days.
I think it's pretentious and also inaccurate. While atheist do tend to be a
bit smarter on average, total morons can be atheists too. Hell....there are
several around here!
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news
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| User: "Clayton...Strong Atheist...Weak Bladder!" |
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| Title: Re: why do non believers need a badge? |
28 Jul 2003 08:11:57 PM |
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"Elroy Willis" <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:331aivksksg3l2dffrvntndfp9us0fl8kd@4ax.com...
Clayton wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message
JethroUK© <reply@the.board> wrote in alt.atheism
Clayton...Strong Atheist...Weak Bladder! wrote
JethroUK© <reply@the.board> wrote in message
why not just 'not beleive'
Yes, we should just cower in the dark with our mouths closed and not
bother the world with our existence!
not at all - but the definatives 'a-theist' doesn't give a damn about
religion - consequently, if you do (and you're entitled to have an
opinion on religion) then you need a different badge
What do you think about "Brights?" It's a new term for atheists
that some people seem to be using these days.
I think it's pretentious and also inaccurate. While atheist do tend to
be a
bit smarter on average, total morons can be atheists too. Hell....there
are
several around here!
I haven't received an answer to my question about where the "Bright"
term is actually being used around the country or world. I was just
curious because I haven't seen or heard it used around here in north
texas.
The only place I've heard it used is a few times on the Usenet and once in a
chat room...but I was too busy talking to a girl who was showing me her
boobs on a webcam to pay much attention to the context.
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news
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| User: "Phillip Brown" |
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| Title: Re: why do non believers need a badge? |
28 Jul 2003 10:14:36 PM |
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On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:21:02 +0000, Elroy Willis wrote:
Clayton wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message
JethroUK© <reply@the.board> wrote in alt.atheism
Clayton...Strong Atheist...Weak Bladder! wrote
JethroUK© <reply@the.board> wrote in message
why not just 'not beleive'
Yes, we should just cower in the dark with our mouths closed and not
bother the world with our existence!
not at all - but the definatives 'a-theist' doesn't give a damn about
religion - consequently, if you do (and you're entitled to have an
opinion on religion) then you need a different badge
What do you think about "Brights?" It's a new term for atheists
that some people seem to be using these days.
I think it's pretentious and also inaccurate. While atheist do tend to be a
bit smarter on average, total morons can be atheists too. Hell....there are
several around here!
I haven't received an answer to my question about where the "Bright"
term is actually being used around the country or world. I was just
curious because I haven't seen or heard it used around here in north
texas.
IIRC, James Randi declared himself to be one in his article, linked to in an
earlier post to this NG
Phillip Brown
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| User: "George Ricker" |
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| Title: Re: why do non believers need a badge? |
27 Jul 2003 01:04:46 PM |
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In article <74s7iv49c01skhjtibf95g9vqtqu9kb3h5@4ax.com>,
Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> wrote:
JethroUK© <reply@the.board> wrote in alt.atheism
Clayton...Strong Atheist...Weak Bladder! wrote
JethroUK© <reply@the.board> wrote in message
why not just 'not beleive'
Yes, we should just cower in the dark with our mouths closed and not
bother the world with our existence!
not at all - but the definatives 'a-theist' doesn't give a damn about
religion - consequently, if you do (and you're entitled to have an opinion
on religion) then you need a different badge
What do you think about "Brights?" It's a new term for atheists
that some people seem to be using these days.
At first blush, I thought it might be a worthwhile idea.
However, on reflection, I'm not so sure. On one hand the term seems a
bit pretentious. On the other, it seems to be another effort to run away
from the word "atheist."
Of course, being a Bright involves articulating a specific worldview.
It's about more than where one comes down on the god/no-god question.
And, depending on how one chose to define the word "god," I suppose it's
even possible to be a Bright and believe in a deity.
But my chief objection to the term is that - as Elroy notes - is
apparently intended to be a substitute for "atheist" and if that's the
intent, I'm agin it.
As far as I'm concerned, the word "atheist" is a concise and apt
description of my lack of belief in gods, and I intend to continue to
use it unapologetically. If it bothers some people, then I'll be more
than happy to sit down and explain to them why it shouldn't. If they
can't deal with that, their problem is far more profound than my choice
of a label to describe an aspect of my view of things.
--
George Ricker
The most accurate way to spell "one nation under 'God'" is T*H*E*O*C*R*A*C*Y.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: why do non believers need a budgie? |
27 Jul 2003 11:59:37 AM |
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On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 15:47:07 +0000, Elroy Willis wrote:
JethroUK© <reply@the.board> wrote in alt.atheism
Clayton...Strong Atheist...Weak Bladder! wrote
JethroUK© <reply@the.board> wrote in message
why not just 'not beleive'
Yes, we should just cower in the dark with our mouths closed and not
bother the world with our existence!
not at all - but the definatives 'a-theist' doesn't give a damn about
religion - consequently, if you do (and you're entitled to have an
opinion on religion) then you need a different badge
What do you think about "Brights?" It's a new term for atheists that some
people seem to be using these days.
I think it's silly. I'm surprised it came out of Dawkins (IIRC that is).
Besides, name changing doesn't accomplish anything. The people who hate
you will just grab the new term and turn it into a pejorative anyway...
--
Mark K. Bilbo #1423 EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
________________________________________________________________
"...lying is central to the survival of nations and to the
success of great enterprises, because if our enemies can
count on the reliability of everything you say, your
vulnerability is enormously increased."
- Michael Ledeen, neo-con leader
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| User: "Dr. Smartass" |
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| Title: Re: why do non believers need a bungee? |
27 Jul 2003 02:33:55 PM |
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Just thought I'd change the thread title to say this.
SPONG!!
--
Dr. Smartass
BAAWA Knight of Staves -- a.a. #1939
For Father Flanigan: Don't Pet the Small Stuff
Everyone Else: Don't Sweat the Small Stuff
"I'm done for."
--Adlai Stevenson, when told that he had all the thinking people
on his side for his presidential campaign.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: why do non believers need a bungee? |
28 Jul 2003 09:44:38 AM |
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In article <Xns93C5965A4B9B8askifyouwantit@65.82.44.187>, Dr. Smartass says...
Just thought I'd change the thread title to say this.
But, what the devil is a "bungee"? ;)
SPONG!!
And a SPONG, SPONG!!! to you too, my sweet ;)
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557
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| User: "Mike Painter mpainteratattdotnet" |
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| Title: Re: why do non believers need a bungee? |
28 Jul 2003 11:15:13 AM |
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"Robibnikoff" <nospam@newsranger.com> wrote in message
news:qFaVa.13224$cJ5.1066@www.newsranger.com...
In article <Xns93C5965A4B9B8askifyouwantit@65.82.44.187>, Dr. Smartass
says...
Just thought I'd change the thread title to say this.
But, what the devil is a "bungee"? ;)
It is a generic name for a type of cord that stretches. Frequently it will
be fabric coated rubber.
Usually it is fairly short with a hook on both ends to allow securing gear
but longer ones are used for jumping off bridges. Alleged to be fun if you
remember to tie one end to you and the other to the bridge.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: why do non believers need a bungee? |
28 Jul 2003 11:24:10 AM |
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In article <ff8c93d08544b9c3c369572912afeb49@free.teranews.com>, Mike Painter
says...
"Robibnikoff" <nospam@newsranger.com> wrote in message
news:qFaVa.13224$cJ5.1066@www.newsranger.com...
In article <Xns93C5965A4B9B8askifyouwantit@65.82.44.187>, Dr. Smartass
says...
Just thought I'd change the thread title to say this.
But, what the devil is a "bungee"? ;)
It is a generic name for a type of cord that stretches. Frequently it will
be fabric coated rubber.
Usually it is fairly short with a hook on both ends to allow securing gear
but longer ones are used for jumping off bridges. Alleged to be fun if you
remember to tie one end to you and the other to the bridge.
Oh well, boogers, I know what those are - What was throwing me was the spelling.
I always thought it was spelled "bungie". My faux pas ;)
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557
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| User: "Dr. Smartass" |
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| Title: Re: why do non believers need a bungee? |
28 Jul 2003 06:31:02 PM |
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Robibnikoff <nospam@newsranger.com> wrote in
news:K6cVa.13242$cJ5.1164@www.newsranger.com:
In article <ff8c93d08544b9c3c369572912afeb49@free.teranews.com>, Mike
Painter says...
"Robibnikoff" <nospam@newsranger.com> wrote in message
news:qFaVa.13224$cJ5.1066@www.newsranger.com...
In article <Xns93C5965A4B9B8askifyouwantit@65.82.44.187>, Dr.
Smartass
says...
Just thought I'd change the thread title to say this.
But, what the devil is a "bungee"? ;)
It is a generic name for a type of cord that stretches. Frequently it
will be fabric coated rubber.
Usually it is fairly short with a hook on both ends to allow securing
gear but longer ones are used for jumping off bridges. Alleged to be
fun if you remember to tie one end to you and the other to the bridge.
Oh well, boogers, I know what those are - What was throwing me was the
spelling. I always thought it was spelled "bungie". My faux pas ;)
Must be a regional spelling thing...either way it's more fun to say than
"elastic cord" ;)
--
Dr. Smartass
BAAWA Knight of Staves -- a.a. #1939
For Father Flanigan: Don't Pet the Small Stuff
Everyone Else: Don't Sweat the Small Stuff
"I'm done for."
--Adlai Stevenson, when told that he had all the thinking people
on his side for his presidential campaign.
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| User: "TCS" |
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| Title: Re: why do non believers need a bungee? |
28 Jul 2003 11:41:51 AM |
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On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 16:15:13 GMT, Mike Painter <> wrote:
"Robibnikoff" <nospam@newsranger.com> wrote in message
news:qFaVa.13224$cJ5.1066@www.newsranger.com...
In article <Xns93C5965A4B9B8askifyouwantit@65.82.44.187>, Dr. Smartass
says...
Just thought I'd change the thread title to say this.
But, what the devil is a "bungee"? ;)
It is a generic name for a type of cord that stretches. Frequently it will
be fabric coated rubber.
Usually it is fairly short with a hook on both ends to allow securing gear
but longer ones are used for jumping off bridges. Alleged to be fun if you
remember to tie one end to you and the other to the bridge.
I hood a good story about a couple of drunks who got the idea of bungie
jumping, but with ordinary rope. Fool got his leg ripped off, but the
process at least slowed him enough so that he didn't die when he hit the
water.
.
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| User: "Doug Semler" |
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| Title: Re: why do non believers need a bungee? |
28 Jul 2003 05:06:37 PM |
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At some point in the past, TCS <The.Central.Scrutinizer@p.o.b.o.x.com>
posted this drivel:
On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 16:15:13 GMT, Mike Painter <> wrote:
"Robibnikoff" <nospam@newsranger.com> wrote in message
news:qFaVa.13224$cJ5.1066@www.newsranger.com...
In article <Xns93C5965A4B9B8askifyouwantit@65.82.44.187>, Dr.
Smartass says...
Just thought I'd change the thread title to say this.
But, what the devil is a "bungee"? ;)
It is a generic name for a type of cord that stretches. Frequently
it will be fabric coated rubber.
Usually it is fairly short with a hook on both ends to allow
securing gear but longer ones are used for jumping off bridges.
Alleged to be fun if you remember to tie one end to you and the
other to the bridge.
I hood a good story about a couple of drunks who got the idea of
bungie jumping, but with ordinary rope. Fool got his leg ripped off,
but the process at least slowed him enough so that he didn't die when
he hit the water.
There was a story on one of the "Faces of Death" videos...some drunk college
students got the bright idea of bungee jumping off the roof of the
engineering building. They hooked up the rope, and the first jumper THUMPED
right into the ground. Investigation revealed the rope to be 10 feet too
long. Turns out that the "bright young students" figured the rope length by
measuring the distance from floor to ceiling and multiplying by the number
of floors in the building. They got the number of floors from the highest
floor number in the building. Problem was, that while the highest floor
number was 15, there were only 14 stories to the building. The building was
built with no floor labelled 13.
(I don't know if it was a true story or doctored into an urban legend, but
the evidence was a video tape of the kid THUMPing into the ground.)
--
Doug Semler
http://home.wideopenwest.com/~doug_semler
a.a. #705, BAAWA. EAC Guardian of the Horn of the IPU (pbuhh).
I hate spam, standard email address munging applied.
42
DNRC o-
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| User: "William Klee" |
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| Title: Re: why do non believers need a bungee? |
29 Jul 2003 12:42:24 PM |
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In article <slrnbiakif.10ld.The.Central.Scrutinizer@turing.kaosol.net>,
TCS <The.Central.Scrutinizer@p.o.b.o.x.com> wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 16:15:13 GMT, Mike Painter <> wrote:
"Robibnikoff" <nospam@newsranger.com> wrote in message
news:qFaVa.13224$cJ5.1066@www.newsranger.com...
In article <Xns93C5965A4B9B8askifyouwantit@65.82.44.187>, Dr. Smartass
says...
Just thought I'd change the thread title to say this.
But, what the devil is a "bungee"? ;)
It is a generic name for a type of cord that stretches. Frequently it will
be fabric coated rubber.
Usually it is fairly short with a hook on both ends to allow securing gear
but longer ones are used for jumping off bridges. Alleged to be fun if you
remember to tie one end to you and the other to the bridge.
I hood a good story about a couple of drunks who got the idea of bungie
jumping, but with ordinary rope. Fool got his leg ripped off, but the
process at least slowed him enough so that he didn't die when he hit the
water.
I liked the one I read about the guys who figured since they were
jumping off a 110 foot bridge, they'd use 100 foot of bungie cord. They
cut it 10 foot short so they wouldn't hit their heads...
.
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: why do non believers need a budgie? |
28 Jul 2003 06:41:08 AM |
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Mark K. Bilbo <iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis wrote:
JethroUK© <reply@the.board> wrote in alt.atheism
Clayton...Strong Atheist...Weak Bladder! wrote
JethroUK© <reply@the.board> wrote in message
why not just 'not beleive'
Yes, we should just cower in the dark with our mouths closed and not
bother the world with our existence!
not at all - but the definatives 'a-theist' doesn't give a damn about
religion - consequently, if you do (and you're entitled to have an
opinion on religion) then you need a different badge
What do you think about "Brights?" It's a new term for atheists that
some people seem to be using these days.
I think it's silly. I'm surprised it came out of Dawkins (IIRC that is).
Besides, name changing doesn't accomplish anything. The people who
hate you will just grab the new term and turn it into a pejorative anyway...
I think I remember seeing "bright boy" used as an inflammatory
remark, long before I heard of the recent use of "bright" to refer to
atheists.
"Okay, bright boy, tell us the answer..."
"If God didn't do it, who or what did?"
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: why do non believers need a badge? |
27 Jul 2003 10:20:31 AM |
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On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 14:59:50 +0100, "JethroUK©" <reply@the.board>
wrote:
"Clayton...Strong Atheist...Weak Bladder!" <cjfat@SPAMBLOCKoptusnet.com.au>
wrote in message news:3f231767$0$1207$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"JethroUK©" <reply@the.board> wrote in message
news:l4mUa.2017$G85.2014@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net...
i thought 'atheists' just dont beleive in god
if so, why do you need a badge?
why not just 'not beleive'
Yes, we should just cower in the dark with our mouths closed and not
bother
the world with our existence!
not at all - but the definatives 'a-theist' doesn't give a damn about
religion - consequently, if you do (and you're entitled to have an opinion
on religion) then you need a different badge
Why are you so obsessed with this "need a badge" crap?
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: why do non believers need a badge? |
27 Jul 2003 11:42:15 AM |
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On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 15:30:24 +0000, Robibnikoff wrote:
In article <47r7iv4sap1gh7l0jbig1v46neg901lnhl@4ax.com>, Christopher A.
Lee says...
On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 14:59:50 +0100, "JethroUK©" <reply@the.board> wrote:
"Clayton...Strong Atheist...Weak Bladder!"
<cjfat@SPAMBLOCKoptusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3f231767$0$1207$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"JethroUK©" <reply@the.board> wrote in message
news:l4mUa.2017$G85.2014@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net...
i thought 'atheists' just dont beleive in god
if so, why do you need a badge?
why not just 'not beleive'
Yes, we should just cower in the dark with our mouths closed and not
bother
the world with our existence!
not at all - but the definatives 'a-theist' doesn't give a damn about
religion - consequently, if you do (and you're entitled to have an
opinion on religion) then you need a different badge
Why are you so obsessed with this "need a badge" crap?
Badges? We don't need no stinkin' badges! ;)
Too late, I already did that one!
So, are you back?
--
Mark K. Bilbo #1423 EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
________________________________________________________________
"...lying is central to the survival of nations and to the
success of great enterprises, because if our enemies can
count on the reliability of everything you say, your
vulnerability is enormously increased."
- Michael Ledeen, neo-con leader
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