Re: WHY DOES BUSH KILL PEOPLE?



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: ""
Date: 24 Aug 2005 10:29:07 PM
Object: Re: WHY DOES BUSH KILL PEOPLE?
El Conquistador wrote:

WHY BUSH INVADED IRAQ
By Peter Fredson

August 24, 2005

Let me see if I got it right. Bush is away on a long vacation when teams of
Muslims, most of them from Saudi Arabia, crash 3 planes into government
installations, another falls into a field, but none were intercepted despite
considerable intelligence that this might happen. So Bush and Cheney get
into planes, and scoot into bunkers. Later they make speeches while letting
their Saudi Arabian oil partners fly out of possible embarrassment. And this
is the reason their supporters call their actions heroic, courageous and
strong leadership?

Osama bin Laden makes a speech about Muslim outrage with the Bush family
trampling on Muslim beliefs so Bush retaliates by sending thousands of
American troops into Afghanistan where bin Laden has training camps for
people who are also outraged at American bullying in the Middle East.

Troops trot up and down Afghan mountains, blow up caves, houses, and catch
several thousand people who live in the area and hold them indefinitely,
many years later, without charges but with abundant abuse and torture to
find out why those people dislike us. Bush lawyers declare that as War
President he can do about anything he wants, and his Attorney General forges
a Hitlerian version of a Patriot Act to give Bush god-like powers without
fear of retribution from Senate or Supreme Court.

Then Bush, who lets bin Laden escape, decides that God has appointed him
Guardian of Morals of the World, declares Saddam Hussein Evil, and several
countries as The Axis of Evil, and sends waiting troops into Iraq. His very
first action is to seize the oil ministry and the oil fields, while
practicing Christian Shock-and-Awe on helpless Muslims in order to get
Saddam Hussein out of power. He succeeds brilliantly in killing thousands of
Muslims, destroying their homes, factories, installations, electricity,
water and hospitals...but, Thank God, the Oil is saved.

The next act is to give good friends of ***** Cheney the god-given command of
extracting Iraqi oil without contract, because the oil is ours although it
is under Iraqi sand. Meanwhile our troops brilliantly kill thousands more
Muslims and make their daily lives a living Hell, while Bush makes speeches
about Freedom, Liberty and Democracy. He also makes speeches about
sovereignty, and declares MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. He becomes a great hero to
his True Believer supporters, lobbyists, neo-cons, corporate executives and
Republican Congresspeople.

He conquered a people previously beaten by his daddy, whose munitions, arms
and vehicles were outmoded, but whose stock of Weapons of Mass Destruction
threatened the entire world, and then mysteriously disappeared when we went
looking for them. The entire Bush cabinet made speeches day and night about
mushroom clouds, pilotless planes, aluminum tubes, yellow cake, and imminent
danger from intentions. We found Saddam trying to escape by living in a
small hole and put him by Bush's god-like authority into indefinite
detention without access to legal counsel except by grace of George Bush and
Donald Rumsfeld.

Then we found all of the reasons to invade, conquer and occupy Iraq were
based on lies, deception, and deliberate misinformation. We found English
memos that Bush and his companions had planned the entire operation before
the tragedy of 9/11. This seems to have escaped the attention of most of the
media and the congress, who are busy discussing important news of missing
brides and Michael Jackson.

Now we have learned the real reasons for the bullying, aggression, violence,
death and destruction. They are, in order,

Seize some of the Earth's dwindling supply of oil for ourselves.

Seize land in Iraq to build huge permanent military bases where we can store
planes, explosives, nuclear devices and troops.

Dominate the entire Middle East, seize more oil and land for more bases.

Build a huge 1,800 staff embassy from which we can send bullies, CIA, and
other spies to dominate the Arab world.

Pretend to give sovereignty to the conquered nation, by installing puppets
personally chosen by the Bush sycophants, immunizing ourselves from
prosecution from war crimes, but planning for an indefinite occupation.

Declare that we have brought Freedom, Democracy, Liberty and Peace to Iraq
and show how ridiculous and satirical that is by smirking at the stupidity
of the American public and the complicity of much of Congress and the
Supreme Court.

Let Bush Strut, Swagger, and claim victor's laurels equal to Julius Caesar
to the applause of Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, and Karl Rove, and retire
to Crawford, Texas as a master of deception and violence equaled only by
Adolph Hitler and Benito Mussolini.

Of course, every Bush supporter will vehemently deny that any of the above
happened. They will swear that Bush is honest as Nixon, that God told Bush
to kill Muslims, that soldiers cannot complain at being sent to their deaths
to get oil for neocon corporations, and that Freedom, Liberty and Democracy
were spread, like manure from the Bush ranch, all over the Middle East. Most
of all, they too want Bush to get on with his life and not bother with
troublesome mothers whose sons were killed by Bush lies.

The war in Iraq could've been prevented had Hussein simply surrendered,
as he was given 72 hours to do so. Had he done so, 90% of your post
wouldn't have been necessary. :-)
Prayer For Federal, State And Local Governments:
Lord God, grant to the President of the United States, to the Congress,
and to all law officials on the national, state and local levels, the
gifts of wisdom, justice, counsel and fortitude, to conduct your
affairs and those of men with righteousness. May they realize that all
authority comes from you and may they use it as your representatives.
May men respect all lawful authority justly exercised. And may our
government bring us to true peace and a prosperity that will be unto
our eternal salvation. Amen.
.

User: "Dave Fuller"

Title: Re: WHY DOES BUSH KILL PEOPLE? 25 Aug 2005 12:16:49 AM
<vivapadrepio@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1124940547.677623.225760@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...


The war in Iraq could've been prevented had Hussein simply surrendered,
as he was given 72 hours to do so. Had he done so, 90% of your post
wouldn't have been necessary. :-)

Who died and left Bush interim god?
Might does not make right. We have gotten so arrogant that we don't even
begin to think about what is right or wrong anymore. Had Hussein simply
surrendered? For what reason? Where are his WMD? Bush most probably lied
to the American people.
I cannot defend Bill C. & Monica, but how many people have died because of
his "not sex" with her. And Shrub has brought about the death of how many
Americans? And, how many Iraqis?
Padre, "Thou shalt not kill" means exactly that - Do not take the life of
another. If only you had a clue.
D
.
User: "Fred Stone"

Title: Re: WHY DOES BUSH KILL PEOPLE? 25 Aug 2005 07:08:05 AM
"Dave Fuller" <crazy_aardvark@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:5vcPe.278661$_o.191197@attbi_s71:

<vivapadrepio@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1124940547.677623.225760@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...


The war in Iraq could've been prevented had Hussein simply
surrendered, as he was given 72 hours to do so. Had he done so, 90%
of your post wouldn't have been necessary. :-)

Who died and left Bush interim god?

He was elected president.

Might does not make right. We have gotten so arrogant that we don't
even begin to think about what is right or wrong anymore. Had Hussein
simply surrendered? For what reason? Where are his WMD? Bush most
probably lied to the American people.

For what reason? How about Saddam's repeated violations of UN
resolutions, his human rights violations, his support for international
terrorists, his refusal to cooperate with WMD inspections as required by
the terms of the 1992 ceasefire after Gulf War 1, and his violation of
that ceasefire?

I cannot defend Bill C. & Monica, but how many people have died
because of his "not sex" with her. And Shrub has brought about the
death of how many Americans? And, how many Iraqis?

Bush didn't kill anybody. By your "logic" the police chief is as bad as
the Mafia boss whose gang he orders broken up if somebody gets killed in
the process.

Padre, "Thou shalt not kill" means exactly that - Do not take the life
of another. If only you had a clue.

Tell that to the terrorists in Iraq.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"The usual cause of evil in the world is that at any given time
half the people in the world are awake. "
- Dean Rusk
.
User: "Dave Fuller"

Title: Re: WHY DOES BUSH KILL PEOPLE? 25 Aug 2005 10:27:55 AM
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:1124971685.20b29c8e59ca3d930a4a9b69b6b46b72@teranews...

"Dave Fuller" <crazy_aardvark@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:5vcPe.278661$_o.191197@attbi_s71:

<vivapadrepio@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1124940547.677623.225760@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...


The war in Iraq could've been prevented had Hussein simply
surrendered, as he was given 72 hours to do so. Had he done so, 90%
of your post wouldn't have been necessary. :-)

Who died and left Bush interim god?


He was elected president.

Yes, he was. That office is in the executive branch of the government which
means that he is supposed to be carrying out the decisions of others.

Might does not make right. We have gotten so arrogant that we don't
even begin to think about what is right or wrong anymore. Had Hussein
simply surrendered? For what reason? Where are his WMD? Bush most
probably lied to the American people.


For what reason? How about Saddam's repeated violations of UN
resolutions, his human rights violations, his support for international
terrorists, his refusal to cooperate with WMD inspections as required by
the terms of the 1992 ceasefire after Gulf War 1, and his violation of
that ceasefire?

For what reason? None of the things you mentioned were sufficient to cause
the American people to move against Sadaam. It was only in the hysteria of
post 9/11 with a "threat" of WMD that American's were gullible enough to buy
into a war with Iraq.

I cannot defend Bill C. & Monica, but how many people have died
because of his "not sex" with her. And Shrub has brought about the
death of how many Americans? And, how many Iraqis?


Bush didn't kill anybody. By your "logic" the police chief is as bad as
the Mafia boss whose gang he orders broken up if somebody gets killed in
the process.

Stripped to the essence, you're pushing the ends justifies the means.

Padre, "Thou shalt not kill" means exactly that - Do not take the life
of another. If only you had a clue.


Tell that to the terrorists in Iraq.

Why? They pretty much believe the ends justifies the means. You folks that
believe that can just duke it out, the rest of us will be collateral damage.
(Not that many will mind.)
Dave

--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"The usual cause of evil in the world is that at any given time
half the people in the world are awake. "
- Dean Rusk

.
User: "Fred Stone"

Title: Re: WHY DOES BUSH KILL PEOPLE? 25 Aug 2005 10:49:16 AM
"Dave Fuller" <crazy_aardvark@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:%rlPe.306203$xm3.122704@attbi_s21:

"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:1124971685.20b29c8e59ca3d930a4a9b69b6b46b72@teranews...

"Dave Fuller" <crazy_aardvark@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:5vcPe.278661$_o.191197@attbi_s71:

<vivapadrepio@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1124940547.677623.225760@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...


The war in Iraq could've been prevented had Hussein simply
surrendered, as he was given 72 hours to do so. Had he done so,
90% of your post wouldn't have been necessary. :-)

Who died and left Bush interim god?


He was elected president.


Yes, he was. That office is in the executive branch of the government
which means that he is supposed to be carrying out the decisions of
others.

That's correct. Congress approved the use of force in Iraq.

Might does not make right. We have gotten so arrogant that we don't
even begin to think about what is right or wrong anymore. Had
Hussein simply surrendered? For what reason? Where are his WMD?
Bush most probably lied to the American people.


For what reason? How about Saddam's repeated violations of UN
resolutions, his human rights violations, his support for
international terrorists, his refusal to cooperate with WMD
inspections as required by the terms of the 1992 ceasefire after Gulf
War 1, and his violation of that ceasefire?


For what reason? None of the things you mentioned were sufficient to
cause the American people to move against Sadaam.

They were sufficient for the Congress to list them in the war
resolution.

It was only in the
hysteria of post 9/11 with a "threat" of WMD that American's were
gullible enough to buy into a war with Iraq.

You seem to be forgetting that almost all the world's intelligence
services believed that Saddam had WMD. It's only in hindsight that we
find that the CIA were operating on decade-old information, assumptions
and shaky single-sourced material.

I cannot defend Bill C. & Monica, but how many people have died
because of his "not sex" with her. And Shrub has brought about the
death of how many Americans? And, how many Iraqis?


Bush didn't kill anybody. By your "logic" the police chief is as bad
as the Mafia boss whose gang he orders broken up if somebody gets
killed in the process.


Stripped to the essence, you're pushing the ends justifies the means.

Ends sometimes do justify means. Saving the life of a patient with a
gangrenous limb does justify amputation.

Padre, "Thou shalt not kill" means exactly that - Do not take the
life of another. If only you had a clue.


Tell that to the terrorists in Iraq.


Why? They pretty much believe the ends justifies the means. You
folks that believe that can just duke it out, the rest of us will be
collateral damage. (Not that many will mind.)

You just made my case for me. The terrorists won't stop until they're
all dead. It's up to us to accomodate them.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"The usual cause of evil in the world is that at any given time
half the people in the world are awake. "
- Dean Rusk
.
User: "Dave Fuller"

Title: Re: WHY DOES BUSH KILL PEOPLE? 26 Aug 2005 03:34:04 AM
Warning - Top Poster
Fred,
There is an old saw that you cain't teach an old dog new tricks.
I accept a limited truth to that, you ain't convincing me that killing folks
that don't see it our way is RIGHT.
I will accept a possibility that you are right, but not enough to move me to
your position.
Vaya con dios - Go with what is off utmost importance to you.
Dave
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:1124984957.f73d287f13d8d7a4e84761dbe60ea304@teranews...

"Dave Fuller" <crazy_aardvark@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:%rlPe.306203$xm3.122704@attbi_s21:

"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:1124971685.20b29c8e59ca3d930a4a9b69b6b46b72@teranews...

"Dave Fuller" <crazy_aardvark@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:5vcPe.278661$_o.191197@attbi_s71:

<vivapadrepio@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1124940547.677623.225760@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...


The war in Iraq could've been prevented had Hussein simply
surrendered, as he was given 72 hours to do so. Had he done so,
90% of your post wouldn't have been necessary. :-)

Who died and left Bush interim god?


He was elected president.


Yes, he was. That office is in the executive branch of the government
which means that he is supposed to be carrying out the decisions of
others.


That's correct. Congress approved the use of force in Iraq.

Might does not make right. We have gotten so arrogant that we don't
even begin to think about what is right or wrong anymore. Had
Hussein simply surrendered? For what reason? Where are his WMD?
Bush most probably lied to the American people.


For what reason? How about Saddam's repeated violations of UN
resolutions, his human rights violations, his support for
international terrorists, his refusal to cooperate with WMD
inspections as required by the terms of the 1992 ceasefire after Gulf
War 1, and his violation of that ceasefire?


For what reason? None of the things you mentioned were sufficient to
cause the American people to move against Sadaam.


They were sufficient for the Congress to list them in the war
resolution.

It was only in the
hysteria of post 9/11 with a "threat" of WMD that American's were
gullible enough to buy into a war with Iraq.


You seem to be forgetting that almost all the world's intelligence
services believed that Saddam had WMD. It's only in hindsight that we
find that the CIA were operating on decade-old information, assumptions
and shaky single-sourced material.

I cannot defend Bill C. & Monica, but how many people have died
because of his "not sex" with her. And Shrub has brought about the
death of how many Americans? And, how many Iraqis?


Bush didn't kill anybody. By your "logic" the police chief is as bad
as the Mafia boss whose gang he orders broken up if somebody gets
killed in the process.


Stripped to the essence, you're pushing the ends justifies the means.


Ends sometimes do justify means. Saving the life of a patient with a
gangrenous limb does justify amputation.

Padre, "Thou shalt not kill" means exactly that - Do not take the
life of another. If only you had a clue.


Tell that to the terrorists in Iraq.


Why? They pretty much believe the ends justifies the means. You
folks that believe that can just duke it out, the rest of us will be
collateral damage. (Not that many will mind.)


You just made my case for me. The terrorists won't stop until they're
all dead. It's up to us to accomodate them.

--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"The usual cause of evil in the world is that at any given time
half the people in the world are awake. "
- Dean Rusk

.



User: ""

Title: Re: WHY DOES BUSH KILL PEOPLE? 26 Aug 2005 04:46:26 PM
Fred Stone wrote:

"Dave Fuller" <crazy_aardvark@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:5vcPe.278661$_o.191197@attbi_s71:

<vivapadrepio@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1124940547.677623.225760@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...


The war in Iraq could've been prevented had Hussein simply
surrendered, as he was given 72 hours to do so. Had he done so, 90%
of your post wouldn't have been necessary. :-)

Who died and left Bush interim god?


He was elected president.

He became the legal president, he lost
the election. He bacame president
however because the votes initially
were not counted correctly.
Larry
.



User: "taiki"

Title: Re: WHY DOES BUSH KILL PEOPLE? 24 Aug 2005 11:15:19 PM
wrote:


The war in Iraq could've been prevented had Hussein simply surrendered,
as he was given 72 hours to do so. Had he done so, 90% of your post
wouldn't have been necessary. :-)

except that inspectors were on the ground before hand.
The embargos killed thousands needlessly in a country that didn't attack
us.
-taiki
.
User: "ריעין ברתון‎/Riain Barton"

Title: Re: WHY DOES BUSH KILL PEOPLE? 24 Aug 2005 11:47:21 PM
In a country that violated international law, had human rights
violations, committed GENOCIDE on minority ethnic groups, and illegally
invaded another nation...
What an idiot!
"taiki" <taiki@cox.net> wrote in message
news:DAbPe.40058$Ji4.16956@fed1read03...
:
wrote:
:
:
: >
: > The war in Iraq could've been prevented had Hussein simply
surrendered,
: > as he was given 72 hours to do so. Had he done so, 90% of your post
: > wouldn't have been necessary. :-)
: >
:
: except that inspectors were on the ground before hand.
:
: The embargos killed thousands needlessly in a country that didn't
attack
: us.
:
: -taiki
.
User: "El Conquistador"

Title: Re: WHY DOES BUSH KILL PEOPLE? 25 Aug 2005 08:09:49 AM
"ריעין ברתון‎/Riain Barton" <riain@zion.org.il> wrote in message
news:E1cPe.5526$Ma3.3628@bignews4.bellsouth.net...

In a country that violated international law, had human rights
violations, committed GENOCIDE on minority ethnic groups, and illegally
invaded another nation...

THE QUEER IS TALKING ABOUT ISRAEL, OF COURSE!
.

User: "Dave Fuller"

Title: Re: WHY DOES BUSH KILL PEOPLE? 25 Aug 2005 12:36:37 AM
Yes, and how many international laws has the US vioted? How many human
rights violations has the US perpetrated? I have a few friends that are
Native American that have some thoughts about genocide on minority ethnic
groups. So exactly when is it legal to invade another nation?
I know, you have the same answer as the Padre, whenever you believe your
G_d, says so.
D
"ריעין ברתון‎/Riain Barton" <riain@zion.org.il> wrote in message
news:E1cPe.5526$Ma3.3628@bignews4.bellsouth.net...

In a country that violated international law, had human rights
violations, committed GENOCIDE on minority ethnic groups, and illegally
invaded another nation...

What an idiot!



"taiki" <taiki@cox.net> wrote in message
news:DAbPe.40058$Ji4.16956@fed1read03...
:

wrote:
:
:
: >
: > The war in Iraq could've been prevented had Hussein simply
surrendered,
: > as he was given 72 hours to do so. Had he done so, 90% of your post
: > wouldn't have been necessary. :-)
: >
:
: except that inspectors were on the ground before hand.
:
: The embargos killed thousands needlessly in a country that didn't
attack
: us.
:
: -taiki


.
User: ""

Title: Re: WHY DOES BUSH KILL PEOPLE? 25 Aug 2005 02:46:21 AM
On 25-Aug-2005, "Dave Fuller" <crazy_aardvark@hotmail.com> wrote:

Yes, and how many international laws has the US vioted? How many human
rights violations has the US perpetrated? I have a few friends that are
Native American that have some thoughts about genocide on minority ethnic
groups.

I can't even begin to imagine how we can atone for this.

So exactly when is it legal to invade another nation?

When they invade another, when they violate surrender treaties.
Susan
.
User: "El Conquistador"

Title: Re: WHY DOES BUSH KILL PEOPLE? 25 Aug 2005 08:11:26 AM
<flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote in message news:hHePe.14388$_f.3412@trnddc03...


On 25-Aug-2005, "Dave Fuller" <crazy_aardvark@hotmail.com> wrote:

Yes, and how many international laws has the US vioted? How many human
rights violations has the US perpetrated? I have a few friends that are
Native American that have some thoughts about genocide on minority ethnic
groups.


I can't even begin to imagine how we can atone for this.

So exactly when is it legal to invade another nation?


When they invade another, when they violate surrender treaties.

Susan

I AGREE! ISRAEL DID ALL THAT!
.

User: "Dave Fuller"

Title: Re: WHY DOES BUSH KILL PEOPLE? 25 Aug 2005 10:02:59 AM
<flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote in message news:hHePe.14388$_f.3412@trnddc03...


On 25-Aug-2005, "Dave Fuller" <crazy_aardvark@hotmail.com> wrote:

Yes, and how many international laws has the US vioted? How many human
rights violations has the US perpetrated? I have a few friends that are
Native American that have some thoughts about genocide on minority ethnic
groups.


I can't even begin to imagine how we can atone for this.

If you are like most the the people I have met, a pont that has not been
established yet, you really aren't interested in atoning for it.

So exactly when is it legal to invade another nation?


When they invade another, when they violate surrender treaties.

I think it is a little more complicated than that.
Dave

Susan

.
User: ""

Title: Re: WHY DOES BUSH KILL PEOPLE? 26 Aug 2005 12:02:31 AM
On 25-Aug-2005, "Dave Fuller" <crazy_aardvark@hotmail.com> wrote:

<flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:hHePe.14388$_f.3412@trnddc03...


On 25-Aug-2005, "Dave Fuller" <crazy_aardvark@hotmail.com> wrote:

Yes, and how many international laws has the US vioted? How many human
rights violations has the US perpetrated? I have a few friends that
are
Native American that have some thoughts about genocide on minority
ethnic
groups.


I can't even begin to imagine how we can atone for this.


If you are like most the the people I have met, a pont that has not been
established yet, you really aren't interested in atoning for it.

Just because someone is completely overwhelmed, and has no clue as to
how to go about it, doesn't mean they aren't interested.
And also because someone thinks that atonement must so vast that
whatever s/he might do would be a joke, also doesn't mean s/he is not
interested.
Susan
.
User: "Dave Fuller"

Title: Re: WHY DOES BUSH KILL PEOPLE? 26 Aug 2005 03:18:45 AM
<flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote in message news:HnxPe.18199$137.1017@trnddc08...


On 25-Aug-2005, "Dave Fuller" <crazy_aardvark@hotmail.com> wrote:

<flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:hHePe.14388$_f.3412@trnddc03...


On 25-Aug-2005, "Dave Fuller" <crazy_aardvark@hotmail.com> wrote:

Yes, and how many international laws has the US vioted? How many
human
rights violations has the US perpetrated? I have a few friends that
are
Native American that have some thoughts about genocide on minority
ethnic
groups.


I can't even begin to imagine how we can atone for this.


If you are like most the the people I have met, a pont that has not been
established yet, you really aren't interested in atoning for it.


Just because someone is completely overwhelmed, and has no clue as to
how to go about it, doesn't mean they aren't interested.

Susan, I cannot atone for what I have not done. Suppose that my father
wronged you, without my knowledge. You bring that wrong to my attention and
I believe that you have been wronged and redress that, I have not,
necessarily, atoned for my father. I have simply done what I thought was
right. My dad is still alive and if I were to mention it to him, he may
well tell me that I am a "bleeding-heart do-goodin' *****" that he wants
nothing to do with. So, my actions not withstanding, dear old dad is not
atoned for because he is still out there "racking up the score".
Back to the supposition, "Suppose that my father wronged you, without my
knowledge." Change that to "with my knowledge"; can I atone for him? NO,
my first obligation/responsibility is to atone for my own wrong,
"partiality". Did I go along with him because he was my dad, without regard
to whether he was right or wrong? In this scenario, yes, so the first thing
that I must atone for is my own wrong.

And also because someone thinks that atonement must so vast that
whatever s/he might do would be a joke, also doesn't mean s/he is not
interested.

"This a far, far better thing than I have ever done . . ." Dickens,
fiction? Or, in the fictious writings, did we see a glimpse of truth?
Pax?
Dave

Susan

.
User: "El Conquistador"

Title: Re: WHY DOES BUSH KILL PEOPLE? 26 Aug 2005 03:06:05 PM
"Dave Fuller" <crazy_aardvark@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:FfAPe.66930$084.18122@attbi_s22...

<flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:HnxPe.18199$137.1017@trnddc08...


On 25-Aug-2005, "Dave Fuller" <crazy_aardvark@hotmail.com> wrote:

<flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:hHePe.14388$_f.3412@trnddc03...


On 25-Aug-2005, "Dave Fuller" <crazy_aardvark@hotmail.com> wrote:

Yes, and how many international laws has the US vioted? How many
human
rights violations has the US perpetrated? I have a few friends that
are
Native American that have some thoughts about genocide on minority
ethnic
groups.


I can't even begin to imagine how we can atone for this.


If you are like most the the people I have met, a pont that has not been
established yet, you really aren't interested in atoning for it.


Just because someone is completely overwhelmed, and has no clue as to
how to go about it, doesn't mean they aren't interested.


Susan, I cannot atone for what I have not done. Suppose that my father
wronged you, without my knowledge. You bring that wrong to my attention
and I believe that you have been wronged and redress that, I have not,
necessarily, atoned for my father. I have simply done what I thought was
right. My dad is still alive and if I were to mention it to him, he may
well tell me that I am a "bleeding-heart do-goodin' *****" that he
wants nothing to do with. So, my actions not withstanding, dear old dad
is not atoned for because he is still out there "racking up the score".

Back to the supposition, "Suppose that my father wronged you, without my
knowledge." Change that to "with my knowledge"; can I atone for him? NO,
my first obligation/responsibility is to atone for my own wrong,
"partiality". Did I go along with him because he was my dad, without
regard to whether he was right or wrong? In this scenario, yes, so the
first thing that I must atone for is my own wrong.

And also because someone thinks that atonement must so vast that
whatever s/he might do would be a joke, also doesn't mean s/he is not
interested.


"This a far, far better thing than I have ever done . . ." Dickens,
fiction? Or, in the fictious writings, did we see a glimpse of truth?

Chief Dan George said to me once: "We want nothing and need nothging from
the white people, just leave us and our children alone"!
.

User: ""

Title: Re: WHY DOES BUSH KILL PEOPLE? 26 Aug 2005 09:12:50 AM
On 26-Aug-2005, "Dave Fuller" <crazy_aardvark@hotmail.com> wrote:

<flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:HnxPe.18199$137.1017@trnddc08...


On 25-Aug-2005, "Dave Fuller" <crazy_aardvark@hotmail.com> wrote:

<flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:hHePe.14388$_f.3412@trnddc03...


On 25-Aug-2005, "Dave Fuller" <crazy_aardvark@hotmail.com> wrote:

Yes, and how many international laws has the US vioted? How many
human
rights violations has the US perpetrated? I have a few friends that
are
Native American that have some thoughts about genocide on minority
ethnic
groups.


I can't even begin to imagine how we can atone for this.


If you are like most the the people I have met, a pont that has not
been
established yet, you really aren't interested in atoning for it.


Just because someone is completely overwhelmed, and has no clue as to
how to go about it, doesn't mean they aren't interested.


Susan, I cannot atone for what I have not done. Suppose that my father
wronged you, without my knowledge. You bring that wrong to my attention
and
I believe that you have been wronged and redress that, I have not,
necessarily, atoned for my father. I have simply done what I thought was
right. My dad is still alive and if I were to mention it to him, he may
well tell me that I am a "bleeding-heart do-goodin' *****" that he
wants
nothing to do with. So, my actions not withstanding, dear old dad is not
atoned for because he is still out there "racking up the score".

Back to the supposition, "Suppose that my father wronged you, without my
knowledge." Change that to "with my knowledge"; can I atone for him? NO,
my first obligation/responsibility is to atone for my own wrong,
"partiality". Did I go along with him because he was my dad, without
regard
to whether he was right or wrong? In this scenario, yes, so the first
thing
that I must atone for is my own wrong.

But that's what I'm talking about.
We're still screwing them over.
So far, the only thing I've ever figured out to do was call my congressman
about it -
but that turned out to be a bust, since it falls under the purview of the
B.I.A.


And also because someone thinks that atonement must so vast that
whatever s/he might do would be a joke, also doesn't mean s/he is not
interested.


"This a far, far better thing than I have ever done . . ." Dickens,
fiction? Or, in the fictious writings, did we see a glimpse of truth?

Pax?

Sure - I realize you aren't trying to insult me, & I know I'm not trying to
insult you.
Susan
.
User: "Dave Fuller"

Title: Re: WHY DOES BUSH KILL PEOPLE? 26 Aug 2005 10:33:43 AM
<flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote in message news:CrFPe.329$__1.47@trnddc07...


On 26-Aug-2005, "Dave Fuller" <crazy_aardvark@hotmail.com> wrote:

<flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:HnxPe.18199$137.1017@trnddc08...


On 25-Aug-2005, "Dave Fuller" <crazy_aardvark@hotmail.com> wrote:

<flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:hHePe.14388$_f.3412@trnddc03...


On 25-Aug-2005, "Dave Fuller" <crazy_aardvark@hotmail.com> wrote:

Yes, and how many international laws has the US vioted? How many
human
rights violations has the US perpetrated? I have a few friends
that
are
Native American that have some thoughts about genocide on minority
ethnic
groups.


I can't even begin to imagine how we can atone for this.


If you are like most the the people I have met, a pont that has not
been
established yet, you really aren't interested in atoning for it.


Just because someone is completely overwhelmed, and has no clue as to
how to go about it, doesn't mean they aren't interested.


Susan, I cannot atone for what I have not done. Suppose that my father
wronged you, without my knowledge. You bring that wrong to my attention
and
I believe that you have been wronged and redress that, I have not,
necessarily, atoned for my father. I have simply done what I thought was
right. My dad is still alive and if I were to mention it to him, he may
well tell me that I am a "bleeding-heart do-goodin' *****" that he
wants
nothing to do with. So, my actions not withstanding, dear old dad is not
atoned for because he is still out there "racking up the score".

Back to the supposition, "Suppose that my father wronged you, without my
knowledge." Change that to "with my knowledge"; can I atone for him?
NO,
my first obligation/responsibility is to atone for my own wrong,
"partiality". Did I go along with him because he was my dad, without
regard
to whether he was right or wrong? In this scenario, yes, so the first
thing
that I must atone for is my own wrong.


But that's what I'm talking about.
We're still screwing them over.
So far, the only thing I've ever figured out to do was call my congressman
about it -
but that turned out to be a bust, since it falls under the purview of the
B.I.A.

I have come to the conclusion, over the years, that it is probably
impossible to have a government that does not screw over some segment of
those governed. I have also concluded that our government, for much of my
adult life, does not seem to be very concerned about who it screws over as
long as the public opinion polls show the right numbers. (The latter needs
to be qualified as I have seen politicians "stay the course" in spite of
falling popularity numbers.)

And also because someone thinks that atonement must so vast that
whatever s/he might do would be a joke, also doesn't mean s/he is not
interested.


"This a far, far better thing than I have ever done . . ." Dickens,
fiction? Or, in the fictious writings, did we see a glimpse of truth?

Pax?


Sure - I realize you aren't trying to insult me, & I know I'm not trying
to
insult you.

Susan

This all started as the result of a comment I made about the war in Iraq.
That is a topic where one does not have to try to insult another to get it
done. So, if I have insulted you, you have my apologies.
Dave
.
User: ""

Title: Re: WHY DOES BUSH KILL PEOPLE? 26 Aug 2005 04:01:59 PM
On 26-Aug-2005, "Dave Fuller" <crazy_aardvark@hotmail.com> wrote:

This all started as the result of a comment I made about the war in Iraq.
That is a topic where one does not have to try to insult another to get it
done. So, if I have insulted you, you have my apologies.

Oh, not at all - I was wondering if you were upset with something I had
said, tho'.
Susan
.
User: "Dave Fuller"

Title: Re: WHY DOES BUSH KILL PEOPLE? 26 Aug 2005 04:29:33 PM
<flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote in message news:brLPe.91$FL1.42@trnddc09...


On 26-Aug-2005, "Dave Fuller" <crazy_aardvark@hotmail.com> wrote:

This all started as the result of a comment I made about the war in Iraq.
That is a topic where one does not have to try to insult another to get
it
done. So, if I have insulted you, you have my apologies.


Oh, not at all - I was wondering if you were upset with something I had
said, tho'.

Susan

I don't remember for sure. This started with my asking when it is legal for
one nation to invade another and the noise level got kind'a high real quick.
I think we got somewhat sidetracked in that noise.
Dave
.








User: "ריעין ברתון‎/Riain Barton"

Title: Re: WHY DOES BUSH KILL PEOPLE? 25 Aug 2005 03:27:32 AM
You don't know anything about me, and obviously nothing about my
religion or my G-d.
"Dave Fuller" <crazy_aardvark@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:FNcPe.276031$x96.128898@attbi_s72...
: Yes, and how many international laws has the US vioted? How many
human
: rights violations has the US perpetrated? I have a few friends that
are
: Native American that have some thoughts about genocide on minority
ethnic
: groups. So exactly when is it legal to invade another nation?
:
: I know, you have the same answer as the Padre, whenever you believe
your
: G_d, says so.
:
: D
:
:
:
: "ריעין ברתון‎/Riain Barton" <riain@zion.org.il> wrote in message
: news:E1cPe.5526$Ma3.3628@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
: > In a country that violated international law, had human rights
: > violations, committed GENOCIDE on minority ethnic groups, and
illegally
: > invaded another nation...
: >
: > What an idiot!
: >
: >
: >
: > "taiki" <taiki@cox.net> wrote in message
: > news:DAbPe.40058$Ji4.16956@fed1read03...
: > :
wrote:
: > :
: > :
: > : >
: > : > The war in Iraq could've been prevented had Hussein simply
: > surrendered,
: > : > as he was given 72 hours to do so. Had he done so, 90% of your
post
: > : > wouldn't have been necessary. :-)
: > : >
: > :
: > : except that inspectors were on the ground before hand.
: > :
: > : The embargos killed thousands needlessly in a country that didn't
: > attack
: > : us.
: > :
: > : -taiki
: >
: >
:
:
.
User: "Dave Fuller"

Title: Re: WHY DOES BUSH KILL PEOPLE? 25 Aug 2005 10:22:52 AM
"ריעין ברתון‎/Riain Barton" <riain@zion.org.il> wrote in message
news:PffPe.53649$rp.28005@bignews1.bellsouth.net...

You don't know anything about me, and obviously nothing about my
religion or my G-d.

You are, if not totally correct, pretty close in your assessment. So,
instead of telling us all how ignorant we are, why not fill us in?
Dave
.
User: "ריעין ברתון‎/Riain Barton"

Title: Re: WHY DOES BUSH KILL PEOPLE? 25 Aug 2005 08:20:44 PM
Because I have no interest in strangers on Usenet knowing anything more
about me.
"Dave Fuller" <crazy_aardvark@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:gnlPe.306196$xm3.74719@attbi_s21...
: "ריעין ברתון‎/Riain Barton" <riain@zion.org.il> wrote in message
: news:PffPe.53649$rp.28005@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
: > You don't know anything about me, and obviously nothing about my
: > religion or my G-d.
:
: You are, if not totally correct, pretty close in your assessment. So,
: instead of telling us all how ignorant we are, why not fill us in?
:
: Dave
:
:
:
.
User: "Olrik"

Title: Re: WHY DOES BUSH KILL PEOPLE? 25 Aug 2005 10:58:14 PM
/Riain Barton wrote:

Because I have no interest in strangers on Usenet knowing anything more
about me.

Just so you can re-(top)post "You don't know anything about me, and
obviously nothing about my religion or my G-d." ad nauseam? Fess up or
shut up.

"Dave Fuller" <crazy_aardvark@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:gnlPe.306196$xm3.74719@attbi_s21...
: "ריעין ברתון‎/Riain Barton" <riain@zion.org.il> wrote in message
: news:PffPe.53649$rp.28005@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
: > You don't know anything about me, and obviously nothing about my
: > religion or my G-d.
:
: You are, if not totally correct, pretty close in your assessment. So,
: instead of telling us all how ignorant we are, why not fill us in?
:
: Dave
:
:
:


--
Olrik
aa #1981
Qualified SMASH member
EAC Chief Food Inspector, Bacon Division
.
User: "ריעין ברתון‎/Riain Barton"

Title: Re: WHY DOES BUSH KILL PEOPLE? 26 Aug 2005 12:59:54 AM
*****, Pork Brains
"Olrik" <olrik666@yahoo_BACON!_.com> wrote in message
news:rrwPe.7673$vR3.261100@wagner.videotron.net...
: /Riain Barton wrote:
:
: > Because I have no interest in strangers on Usenet knowing anything
more
: > about me.
:
: Just so you can re-(top)post "You don't know anything about me, and
: obviously nothing about my religion or my G-d." ad nauseam? Fess up or
: shut up.
:
: > "Dave Fuller" <crazy_aardvark@hotmail.com> wrote in message
: > news:gnlPe.306196$xm3.74719@attbi_s21...
: > : "ריעין ברתון‎/Riain Barton" <riain@zion.org.il> wrote in message
: > : news:PffPe.53649$rp.28005@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
: > : > You don't know anything about me, and obviously nothing about my
: > : > religion or my G-d.
: > :
: > : You are, if not totally correct, pretty close in your assessment.
So,
: > : instead of telling us all how ignorant we are, why not fill us in?
: > :
: > : Dave
: > :
: > :
: > :
: >
: >
:
:
: --
: Olrik
: aa #1981
: Qualified SMASH member
: EAC Chief Food Inspector, Bacon Division
.


User: "Dave Fuller"

Title: Re: WHY DOES BUSH KILL PEOPLE? 26 Aug 2005 12:13:14 AM
Understood, thank you.
Dave
"ריעין ברתון‎/Riain Barton" <riain@zion.org.il> wrote in message
news:d5uPe.450$2_.239@bignews6.bellsouth.net...

Because I have no interest in strangers on Usenet knowing anything more
about me.



"Dave Fuller" <crazy_aardvark@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:gnlPe.306196$xm3.74719@attbi_s21...
: "ריעין ברתון‎/Riain Barton" <riain@zion.org.il> wrote in message
: news:PffPe.53649$rp.28005@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
: > You don't know anything about me, and obviously nothing about my
: > religion or my G-d.
:
: You are, if not totally correct, pretty close in your assessment. So,
: instead of telling us all how ignorant we are, why not fill us in?
:
: Dave
:
:
:


.
User: "ריעין ברתון‎/Riain Barton"

Title: Re: WHY DOES BUSH KILL PEOPLE? 26 Aug 2005 01:01:17 AM
Want to find out more about me, you can get to know me on my Yahoo
Groups.
"Dave Fuller" <crazy_aardvark@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:KxxPe.307685$xm3.65164@attbi_s21...
: Understood, thank you.
:
: Dave
:
: "ריעין ברתון‎/Riain Barton" <riain@zion.org.il> wrote in message
: news:d5uPe.450$2_.239@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
: > Because I have no interest in strangers on Usenet knowing anything
more
: > about me.
: >
: >
: >
: > "Dave Fuller" <crazy_aardvark@hotmail.com> wrote in message
: > news:gnlPe.306196$xm3.74719@attbi_s21...
: > : "ריעין ברתון‎/Riain Barton" <riain@zion.org.il> wrote in message
: > : news:PffPe.53649$rp.28005@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
: > : > You don't know anything about me, and obviously nothing about my
: > : > religion or my G-d.
: > :
: > : You are, if not totally correct, pretty close in your assessment.
So,
: > : instead of telling us all how ignorant we are, why not fill us in?
: > :
: > : Dave
: > :
: > :
: > :
: >
: >
:
:
.
User: "Dave Fuller"

Title: Re: WHY DOES BUSH KILL PEOPLE? 26 Aug 2005 03:20:15 AM
If you are invititng me, I accept.
If you are challenging me, I decline.
Dave
"ריעין ברתון‎/Riain Barton" <riain@zion.org.il> wrote in message
news:icyPe.1851$HM2.1362@bignews5.bellsouth.net...

Want to find out more about me, you can get to know me on my Yahoo
Groups.


"Dave Fuller" <crazy_aardvark@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:KxxPe.307685$xm3.65164@attbi_s21...
: Understood, thank you.
:
: Dave
:
: "ריעין ברתון‎/Riain Barton" <riain@zion.org.il> wrote in message
: news:d5uPe.450$2_.239@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
: > Because I have no interest in strangers on Usenet knowing anything
more
: > about me.
: >
: >
: >
: > "Dave Fuller" <crazy_aardvark@hotmail.com> wrote in message
: > news:gnlPe.306196$xm3.74719@attbi_s21...
: > : "ריעין ברתון‎/Riain Barton" <riain@zion.org.il> wrote in message
: > : news:PffPe.53649$rp.28005@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
: > : > You don't know anything about me, and obviously nothing about my
: > : > religion or my G-d.
: > :
: > : You are, if not totally correct, pretty close in your assessment.
So,
: > : instead of telling us all how ignorant we are, why not fill us in?
: > :
: > : Dave
: > :
: > :
: > :
: >
: >
:
:


.









User: "God"

Title: Re: Re: WHY DOES BUSH KILL PEOPLE? 26 Aug 2005 01:09:07 PM
Cometh the hour, cometh "vivapadrepio@aol.com" <vivapadrepio@aol.com>
who, with imperceptibly subtle footwork in alt.atheism, gave us this:

May they realize that all
authority comes from you and may they use it as your representatives.

They already do think that. That's why they are such total dipshits
and why we are all in deep doodoo.
----------------------------->
David Silverman F.L.A.H.N. aa #2208
Either religion goes or civilisation does. It's that simple.
.

User: "Mark K. Bilbo"

Title: Re: WHY DOES BUSH KILL PEOPLE? 24 Aug 2005 10:43:24 PM
In episode <1124940547.677623.225760@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
vivapadrepio@aol.com burst into the room and exclaimed:

The war in Iraq could've been prevented had Hussein simply surrendered, as
he was given 72 hours to do so. Had he done so, 90% of your post wouldn't
have been necessary.

We attacked a country that had not attacked us.
Do tell how *that fits with "turn the other cheek" you hypocrite...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
--------------------------------------------------
"Come to think of it, there are already a million
monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet
is NOTHING like Shakespeare!" -- Blair Houghton
.


  Page 1 of 3

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