Religions > Atheism > Re: WHY DOESN'T GOD GO ON TELEVSION AND TELL US IF HE IS THE INTELLIGENT DESIGNER?
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Therion Ware" |
| Date: |
02 Jan 2006 05:25:44 AM |
| Object: |
Re: WHY DOESN'T GOD GO ON TELEVSION AND TELL US IF HE IS THE INTELLIGENT DESIGNER? |
On 2 Jan 2006 00:32:16 -0800 in talk.origins,
() said, directing the reply to talk.origins
what's the problem god?
[alt.atheism, alt.bible added]
For a "natural God," say super advanced aliens, I presume the answer
would be that they don't want to disturb the experiment and thus make
the results invalid. For a supernatural God though the question is a
bit of a poser.
I don't think there are any good conventionally religious answers to
it. In the Christian tradition the answer is usually that if God let
us knew for a fact that he exists this would in some way compromise
our free-will. Personally I don't think that's a sufficient answer in
the context of Christian theology.
For example, within Christian tradition Satan knows for a fact that
God, Jesus Christ, and so on exist yet he chooses to oppose
God/Christ. Similarly if we knew for a fact that God exists we (or at
least some of us) might - perhaps for moral reasons - choose to
withhold our worship of Him, or to actively oppose Him, which IMO
would be a real as opposed to illusory choice.
Further, I think that explaining the hidden nature of God in terms of
free will is predicated on the idea that believing in God is some kind
of choice and that a lack of evidence in some way makes that choice
free. I don't think that's true.
Do I have any choice as regards what I believe to be true? Could I
choose to believe, for example, that 2 + 2 = 5, that the sky is green,
or that the grass is blue? I don't think so. Similarly I feel that
what I am and what I know makes it no more possible to "choose" to
believe in a God than for me to choose to believe that 2 = 2 = 5.
That said, I can think of one reason why any hypothetical God might
choose to keep Himself hidden: we know that the nature of the universe
is such that some things are in principle unpredictable in detail. If
you're omniscient - you know everything that it is possible to know -
then creating the universe and us seems a tad pointless in as much as
why do it when you know precisely what will happen if you do: unless
you create the universe such that it is of its nature unpredictable in
detail - create it such that there are some things that you cannot
know save that you observe them.
Which of course throws out an interventionist God, but I suppose
that's the price of logical consistency!
--
"Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You."
- Attrib: Pauline Reage.
#442. www.video2cd.co.uk. Your 8mm films on DVD.
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| User: "bob young" |
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| Title: Re: WHY DOESN'T GOD GO ON TELEVSION AND TELL US IF HE IS THE INTELLIGENT DESIGNER? |
02 Jan 2006 10:32:13 PM |
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All gods are myths so you won't see any of 'em on TV
Cheers
Bob
Therion Ware wrote:
On 2 Jan 2006 00:32:16 -0800 in talk.origins,
() said, directing the reply to talk.origins
what's the problem god?
[alt.atheism, alt.bible added]
For a "natural God," say super advanced aliens, I presume the answer
would be that they don't want to disturb the experiment and thus make
the results invalid. For a supernatural God though the question is a
bit of a poser.
I don't think there are any good conventionally religious answers to
it. In the Christian tradition the answer is usually that if God let
us knew for a fact that he exists this would in some way compromise
our free-will. Personally I don't think that's a sufficient answer in
the context of Christian theology.
For example, within Christian tradition Satan knows for a fact that
God, Jesus Christ, and so on exist yet he chooses to oppose
God/Christ. Similarly if we knew for a fact that God exists we (or at
least some of us) might - perhaps for moral reasons - choose to
withhold our worship of Him, or to actively oppose Him, which IMO
would be a real as opposed to illusory choice.
Further, I think that explaining the hidden nature of God in terms of
free will is predicated on the idea that believing in God is some kind
of choice and that a lack of evidence in some way makes that choice
free. I don't think that's true.
Do I have any choice as regards what I believe to be true? Could I
choose to believe, for example, that 2 + 2 = 5, that the sky is green,
or that the grass is blue? I don't think so. Similarly I feel that
what I am and what I know makes it no more possible to "choose" to
believe in a God than for me to choose to believe that 2 = 2 = 5.
That said, I can think of one reason why any hypothetical God might
choose to keep Himself hidden: we know that the nature of the universe
is such that some things are in principle unpredictable in detail. If
you're omniscient - you know everything that it is possible to know -
then creating the universe and us seems a tad pointless in as much as
why do it when you know precisely what will happen if you do: unless
you create the universe such that it is of its nature unpredictable in
detail - create it such that there are some things that you cannot
know save that you observe them.
Which of course throws out an interventionist God, but I suppose
that's the price of logical consistency!
--
"Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You."
- Attrib: Pauline Reage.
#442. www.video2cd.co.uk. Your 8mm films on DVD.
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| User: "news" |
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| Title: Re: WHY DOESN'T GOD GO ON TELEVSION AND TELL US IF HE IS THE INTELLIGENT DESIGNER? |
02 Jan 2006 10:26:30 AM |
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It is not yet due time; mankind is still experiencing the time of vanity. --
Ecclesiastes 1:2,13,14; Romans 8:19-23; 1 Timothy 2:6.
God will be revealed to all in due time, and all flesh will see the glory of
Yahweh. Praise Yah! -- Isaiah 2:2-4; 11:9; 40:5; Jeremiah 31:34; Revelation
21:1-5.
Ronald
http://reslight.net/understanding.html
http://reslight.net/ransom.html
http://reslight.net/restorationofall.html
"Therion Ware" <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote in message
news:fvuhr11rkoqf3r78n9m2p2gq89g587duie@4ax.com...
On 2 Jan 2006 00:32:16 -0800 in talk.origins,
() said, directing the reply to talk.origins
what's the problem god?
[alt.atheism, alt.bible added]
For a "natural God," say super advanced aliens, I presume the answer
would be that they don't want to disturb the experiment and thus make
the results invalid. For a supernatural God though the question is a
bit of a poser.
I don't think there are any good conventionally religious answers to
it. In the Christian tradition the answer is usually that if God let
us knew for a fact that he exists this would in some way compromise
our free-will. Personally I don't think that's a sufficient answer in
the context of Christian theology.
For example, within Christian tradition Satan knows for a fact that
God, Jesus Christ, and so on exist yet he chooses to oppose
God/Christ. Similarly if we knew for a fact that God exists we (or at
least some of us) might - perhaps for moral reasons - choose to
withhold our worship of Him, or to actively oppose Him, which IMO
would be a real as opposed to illusory choice.
Further, I think that explaining the hidden nature of God in terms of
free will is predicated on the idea that believing in God is some kind
of choice and that a lack of evidence in some way makes that choice
free. I don't think that's true.
Do I have any choice as regards what I believe to be true? Could I
choose to believe, for example, that 2 + 2 = 5, that the sky is green,
or that the grass is blue? I don't think so. Similarly I feel that
what I am and what I know makes it no more possible to "choose" to
believe in a God than for me to choose to believe that 2 = 2 = 5.
That said, I can think of one reason why any hypothetical God might
choose to keep Himself hidden: we know that the nature of the universe
is such that some things are in principle unpredictable in detail. If
you're omniscient - you know everything that it is possible to know -
then creating the universe and us seems a tad pointless in as much as
why do it when you know precisely what will happen if you do: unless
you create the universe such that it is of its nature unpredictable in
detail - create it such that there are some things that you cannot
know save that you observe them.
Which of course throws out an interventionist God, but I suppose
that's the price of logical consistency!
--
"Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You."
- Attrib: Pauline Reage.
#442. www.video2cd.co.uk. Your 8mm films on DVD.
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| User: "70AD" |
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| Title: Re: WHY DOESN'T GOD GO ON TELEVSION AND TELL US IF HE IS THE INTELLIGENT DESIGNER? |
02 Jan 2006 08:04:19 AM |
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On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 11:25:44 +0000, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> spake thusly:
I don't think there are any good conventionally religious answers to
it. In the Christian tradition the answer is usually that if God let
us knew for a fact that he exists this would in some way compromise
our free-will. Personally I don't think that's a sufficient answer in
the context of Christian theology.
People want to put God under a microscope and the
atheists demand that He submit Himself to testing.
To do so, would mean that He isn't God. We are,
since we would be making demands of Him, that
He would be completing.
Imagine if you created the universe...
The GALL of those far inferior humans, making
DEMANDS of you? Please! (:
Being a loving God, does not mean being someone's
puppet and asking "How high?", when they say, "Jump".
Nor does being a good person, equate to making demands
of your Creator.
--
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
WARNING: Exposure to the Son may prevent burning!
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| User: "kathryn" |
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| Title: Re: WHY DOESN'T GOD GO ON TELEVSION AND TELL US IF HE IS THE INTELLIGENT DESIGNER? |
02 Jan 2006 09:04:33 AM |
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"70AD" <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:9icir19dr2d3m60b74tsdi4k60qk2g32kq@4ax.com...
On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 11:25:44 +0000, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> spake thusly:
I don't think there are any good conventionally religious answers to
it. In the Christian tradition the answer is usually that if God let
us knew for a fact that he exists this would in some way compromise
our free-will. Personally I don't think that's a sufficient answer in
the context of Christian theology.
People want to put God under a microscope and the
atheists demand that He submit Himself to testing.
To do so, would mean that He isn't God. We are,
since we would be making demands of Him, that
He would be completing.
Imagine if you created the universe...
The GALL of those far inferior humans, making
DEMANDS of you? Please! (:
Being a loving God, does not mean being someone's
puppet and asking "How high?", when they say, "Jump".
Nor does being a good person, equate to making demands
of your Creator.
--
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
WARNING: Exposure to the Son may prevent burning!
Sorry but why would a god demand to be worshipped? Why would it be relevent
to it? To me that smacks of ego and egotism is a human trait.
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| User: "Bonfire of the Deities..." |
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| Title: Re: WHY DOESN'T GOD GO ON TELEVSION AND TELL US IF HE IS THE INTELLIGENT DESIGNER? |
02 Jan 2006 12:58:19 PM |
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"kathryn" <nospam@here.com> wrote in message
news:dpbfdu$a7$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.
Sorry but why would a god demand to be worshipped? Why would it be
relevent to it? To me that smacks of ego and egotism is a human trait.
More precisely, it smacks of *the fantasies that the tiny infant has about
its father*...
Bonf.
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| User: "R. Pierce Butler" |
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| Title: Re: WHY DOESN'T GOD GO ON TELEVSION AND TELL US IF HE IS THE INTELLIGENT DESIGNER? |
02 Jan 2006 08:46:16 AM |
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70AD <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> wrote in
news:9icir19dr2d3m60b74tsdi4k60qk2g32kq@4ax.com:
On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 11:25:44 +0000, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> spake thusly:
I don't think there are any good conventionally religious answers to
it. In the Christian tradition the answer is usually that if God let
us knew for a fact that he exists this would in some way compromise
our free-will. Personally I don't think that's a sufficient answer in
the context of Christian theology.
People want to put God under a microscope and the
atheists demand that He submit Himself to testing.
To do so, would mean that He isn't God. We are,
since we would be making demands of Him, that
He would be completing.
Imagine if you created the universe...
The GALL of those far inferior humans, making
DEMANDS of you? Please! (:
Being a loving God, does not mean being someone's
puppet and asking "How high?", when they say, "Jump".
Nor does being a good person, equate to making demands
of your Creator.
So why is it that God tortures, kills, maims, and abuses children? How can
any being condemn one of his "children" to be tortured until time itself
ends? Is that Love?
*****. There can be no God. Not the Xtain God, nor the Muslim God, nor
any God.
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| User: "Scott Richter" |
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| Title: Re: WHY DOESN'T GOD GO ON TELEVSION AND TELL US IF HE IS THE INTELLIGENT DESIGNER? |
02 Jan 2006 10:55:20 AM |
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70AD <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> wrote:
Being a loving God, does not mean being someone's
puppet and asking "How high?", when they say, "Jump".
No, being a loving God means killing and maiming innocent men, women,
and children through disease, natural disasters, and especially, war...
Nor does being a good person, equate to making demands
of your Creator.
Nor does being a good person equate to believing there is an imaginary
father figure with fancy names like "Creator".
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| User: "70AD" |
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| Title: Re: WHY DOESN'T GOD GO ON TELEVSION AND TELL US IF HE IS THE INTELLIGENT DESIGNER? |
02 Jan 2006 11:23:54 AM |
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On Mon, 2 Jan 2006 08:55:20 -0800,
scottrichter422@yahoo.com (Scott Richter) spake thusly:
70AD <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> wrote:
Being a loving God, does not mean being someone's
puppet and asking "How high?", when they say, "Jump".
No, being a loving God means killing and maiming innocent men, women,
and children through disease, natural disasters, and especially, war...
Thanks for responding on point. And it is obvious that
you don't care about a God that doesn't exist, right?
Another moron.
--
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
"Now faith is the substance of evolution, The evidence
of fossils not seen!" - Evofaith 11:1
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| User: "Scott Richter" |
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| Title: Re: WHY DOESN'T GOD GO ON TELEVSION AND TELL US IF HE IS THE INTELLIGENT DESIGNER? |
03 Jan 2006 12:03:35 AM |
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70AD <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> wrote:
No, being a loving God means killing and maiming innocent men, women,
and children through disease, natural disasters, and especially,
war...
Thanks for responding on point. And it is obvious that you don't care
about a God that doesn't exist, right?
No, I don't care about things that don't exist. But I do care about the
effects that fiercely defending a "loving God" (or whatever human traits
you ascribe to your mythical father figure) has on the world. After all,
it was theists like yourself who used their love for their God to crash
airplanes into buildings.
Another moron.
Tut, tut, Chuckles. It seems you love to spew vituperative insults at
everyone on this newsgroup. It's not a very successful debating
technique, and moreover, it indicates you're learned virtually nothing
from your "loving God", or His ***** love child.
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| User: "wbarwell" |
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| Title: Re: WHY DOESN'T GOD GO ON TELEVSION AND TELL US IF HE IS THE INTELLIGENT DESIGNER? |
02 Jan 2006 06:03:57 PM |
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70AD wrote:
On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 11:25:44 +0000, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> spake thusly:
I don't think there are any good conventionally
religious answers to it. In the Christian
tradition the answer is usually that if God let
us knew for a fact that he exists this would in
some way compromise our free-will. Personally I
don't think that's a sufficient answer in the
context of Christian theology.
People want to put God under a microscope and
the atheists demand that He submit Himself to
testing.
Its a matter of noticing the obvious. God no
matter how you define him does not work as a
hypothesis.
The problem with religion is it will not admit
that.
And keeps ranting and raving.
--
Happy Hogmanay!
Cheerful Charlie
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| User: "William T. Goat" |
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| Title: Re: WHY DOESN'T GOD GO ON TELEVSION AND TELL US IF HE IS THE INTELLIGENT DESIGNER? |
02 Jan 2006 06:34:03 PM |
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70AD wrote:
On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 11:25:44 +0000, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> spake thusly:
I don't think there are any good conventionally religious answers to
it. In the Christian tradition the answer is usually that if God let
us knew for a fact that he exists this would in some way compromise
our free-will. Personally I don't think that's a sufficient answer in
the context of Christian theology.
People want to put God under a microscope and the
atheists demand that He submit Himself to testing.
To do so, would mean that He isn't God. We are,
since we would be making demands of Him, that
He would be completing.
Imagine if you created the universe...
The GALL of those far inferior humans, making
DEMANDS of you? Please! (:
Being a loving God, does not mean being someone's
puppet and asking "How high?", when they say, "Jump".
Ah, the old "making demands of God" strawman again.
It's not about "making demands". It's not about what we want. It's
about cause and effect. People only believe things that seem true.
People can only love lovable things. People can only have relationships
with folks they have actually met. That is simply how human beings
work. Surely the Creator of humans would know how humans work.
Christians tell us that God wants our belief, but God can't be bothered
to provide anything to believe in; He wants us to love Him, but He
refuses to be lovable; He wants a personal relationship, but how dare
we ask for personal appearances! God seems to want results without
effort, effects without causes, something for nothing.
--Billy
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| User: "William Wingstedt" |
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| Title: Re: WHY DOESN'T GOD GO ON TELEVSION AND TELL US IF HE IS THE INTELLIGENT DESIGNER? |
02 Jan 2006 11:45:24 PM |
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On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 14:04:19 GMT, 70AD <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 11:25:44 +0000, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> spake thusly:
I don't think there are any good conventionally religious answers to
it. In the Christian tradition the answer is usually that if God let
us knew for a fact that he exists this would in some way compromise
our free-will. Personally I don't think that's a sufficient answer in
the context of Christian theology.
People want to put God under a microscope and the
atheists demand that He submit Himself to testing.
To do so, would mean that He isn't God.
No, a god submitting itself to testing is no less a god. By ascribing
that meaning to the examination of a god, you have minimized the power
of a god to do as it freely wishes...unless you're just apologising
for god's non-existance...
We are,
since we would be making demands of Him, that
He would be completing.
.....like when you pray?
Imagine if you created the universe...
The GALL of those far inferior humans, making
DEMANDS of you? Please! (:
So, you've imagined yourself a god, and have retained the jealousy and
ego, and consider well reasoned requests to be too demanding for your
vast power? What manner of god is this? Please! (:
Being a loving God, does not mean being someone's
puppet and asking "How high?", when they say, "Jump".
Nor does it mean having your actions be indistinguishable from your
inaction in such a way that your very existance is unevidenced.
Nor does being a good person, equate to making demands
of your Creator.
Being a good person may indeed be precluded by making such demands,
since making a demand of an omnipotent god to sprinkle a little fairy
dust might be just the thing that's needed in a sticky situtation. But
one cannot go around making demands that they cannot reasonably expect
to be fulfilled, because invariably, when situations get sticky, time
can be of the essence, and expecting non-existant beings to sprinkle
fairy dust becomes a huge time waster. Sadly, nothing much ever comes
from even asking, let alone demanding, or praying, whatever you call
it, so we're left with having to develop the power to help ourselves.
Which brings us right back to the microscope. Now, what were you
saying is wrong with microscopes again?
--
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
WARNING: Exposure to the Son may prevent burning!
Why is this a warning? Shouldn't it be more like a tip of the day, or
maybe like a bulleted feature list, along with "rounded edges prevent
curling" or something?
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| User: "Shane" |
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| Title: Re: WHY DOESN'T GOD GO ON TELEVSION AND TELL US IF HE IS THE INTELLIGENT DESIGNER? |
02 Jan 2006 09:46:53 AM |
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On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 14:04:19 GMT, 70AD wrote:
On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 11:25:44 +0000, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> spake thusly:
I don't think there are any good conventionally religious answers to
it. In the Christian tradition the answer is usually that if God let
us knew for a fact that he exists this would in some way compromise
our free-will. Personally I don't think that's a sufficient answer in
the context of Christian theology.
People want to put God under a microscope and the
atheists demand that He submit Himself to testing.
Why would an atheist demand something of that which they consider to be
non existant?
To do so, would mean that He isn't God. We are,
since we would be making demands of Him, that
He would be completing.
Yet, Abraham, Jacob, Moses, David and others all made requests and/or
argued with god, and he is still god, go figure. Does making a demand of
your parents and they accede, mean they are no longer your parents?
Imagine if you created the universe...
The GALL of those far inferior humans, making
DEMANDS of you? Please! (:
Yeah, imagine if you had created a person, and they demanded something
of you .... oh wait a minute, it's called parenthood.
Being a loving God, does not mean being someone's
puppet and asking "How high?", when they say, "Jump".
Who said it did? apparently, it means similar things to being a parent,
and acceding to that which is possible and beneficial.
Nor does being a good person, equate to making demands
of your Creator.
Again, who said it did.
Enough straw in that lot to feed the cows through this winter.
--
Shane
The truth will set you free.
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| User: "70AD" |
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| Title: Re: WHY DOESN'T GOD GO ON TELEVSION AND TELL US IF HE IS THE INTELLIGENT DESIGNER? |
02 Jan 2006 09:08:15 AM |
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On Tue, 3 Jan 2006 01:46:53 +1000, Shane
<remarcsd@Netscape.net> spake thusly:
On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 14:04:19 GMT, 70AD wrote:
On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 11:25:44 +0000, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> spake thusly:
I don't think there are any good conventionally religious answers to
it. In the Christian tradition the answer is usually that if God let
us knew for a fact that he exists this would in some way compromise
our free-will. Personally I don't think that's a sufficient answer in
the context of Christian theology.
People want to put God under a microscope and the
atheists demand that He submit Himself to testing.
Why would an atheist demand something of that which they consider to be
non existant?
To do so, would mean that He isn't God. We are,
since we would be making demands of Him, that
He would be completing.
Yet, Abraham, Jacob, Moses, David and others all made requests and/or
argued with god, and he is still god, go figure. Does making a demand of
your parents and they accede, mean they are no longer your parents?
Imagine if you created the universe...
The GALL of those far inferior humans, making
DEMANDS of you? Please! (:
Yeah, imagine if you had created a person, and they demanded something
of you .... oh wait a minute, it's called parenthood.
Being a loving God, does not mean being someone's
puppet and asking "How high?", when they say, "Jump".
Who said it did? apparently, it means similar things to being a parent,
and acceding to that which is possible and beneficial.
Nor does being a good person, equate to making demands
of your Creator.
Again, who said it did.
Enough straw in that lot to feed the cows through this winter.
Your post did not deal with my statements directly
and your "logic" was one of convenience, from
paragraph, to paragraph.
1) God is not just "a parent". He is the Creator of
the universe and as such, commands respect and awe.
2) God is not everyone's parent. He is the Parent
of those who are born again. Not everyone is a
child of God and that is not what Scripture teaches.
3) Parenthood does not mean jumping to every demand,
so noting that children make demands, is illogical, at
best, since it does not speak to the issue that I
actually brought up, which is that if God did what
the atheists want, just because they want it, then
He wouldn't be God.
As for your "parent" statement, which was just an
argument of convenience for you, neither would a parent
by a good parent by doing such and you know that.
But you suspend logic, for the convenience of your
hatred of God.
And don't bother telling me that you don't hate what
doesn't exist. You wouldn't have bothered making
that argument, if you didn't believe and didn't care.
I've never met an actual atheist. Just real scared
believers.
And as for your question of which atheists would
argue that, lots of them do, right here, in these
news groups. So take it up with them.
And in the future, don't bother me with stupid,
illogical arguments of convenience.
--
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
http://christiananswers.net/q-sum/q-life026.html
This signature was made by SigChanger.
You can find SigChanger at: http://www.phranc.nl/
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| User: "Bonfire of the Deities..." |
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| Title: Re: WHY DOESN'T GOD GO ON TELEVSION AND TELL US IF HE IS THE INTELLIGENT DESIGNER? |
02 Jan 2006 09:45:19 AM |
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"70AD" <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> wrote in message news:
1) God is not just "a parent". He is the Creator of
the universe and as such, commands respect and awe.
'Creator of the universe'...? Where do you get this from? When I looked at
what your foundational text teaches, it was made quite clear that 'the
waters' were already there at the start; that the land was already
underneath them; and that the rest of 'the universe' doesn't amount to much
beyond some pretty lights stuck on a solid ceiling. You really call that
'creating'? To me it's more like interior design with a bit of decorating
thrown in. And what's more, what was 'moving' on 'the face of the waters'
was 'Elohim' - which is, ummm, plural...
Boy, is your religion fucked up, or what!?!?!
Bonf.
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| User: "70AD" |
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| Title: Re: WHY DOESN'T GOD GO ON TELEVSION AND TELL US IF HE IS THE INTELLIGENT DESIGNER? |
02 Jan 2006 11:10:15 AM |
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On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 15:45:19 GMT, "'Bonfire of the
Deities...'" <Bonfire@tert.com> spake thusly:
"70AD" <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> wrote in message news:
1) God is not just "a parent". He is the Creator of
the universe and as such, commands respect and awe.
'Creator of the universe'...? Where do you get this from?
When I looked at
what your foundational text teaches, it was made quite clear that 'the
waters' were already there at the start;
Yes, you're quite the expert. After all, you're an
atheist. You're bound to be able to teach the world.
Boy, is your religion fucked up, or what!?!?!
And you're such a mature adult, to boot, huh?
--
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
"The mark of a society that's on its last leg, is when
there is no fear of God." - Adrian Rogers
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| User: "Bonfire of the Deities..." |
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| Title: Re: WHY DOESN'T GOD GO ON TELEVSION AND TELL US IF HE IS THE INTELLIGENT DESIGNER? |
02 Jan 2006 11:35:53 AM |
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"70AD" <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:rhnir1lub2983d9t1dpu130mv37d64l164@4ax.com...
On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 15:45:19 GMT, "'Bonfire of the
Deities...'" <Bonfire@tert.com> spake thusly:
1) God is not just "a parent". He is the Creator of
the universe and as such, commands respect and awe.
'Creator of the universe'...? Where do you get this from?
When I looked at
what your foundational text teaches, it was made quite clear that 'the
waters' were already there at the start;
Yes, you're quite the expert. After all, you're an
atheist. You're bound to be able to teach the world.
Cowardly evasion of the issue noted.
And just look at how much stuff you snipped in your pathetic attempt to make
it go away:
-----
"When I looked at
what your foundational text teaches, it was made quite clear that 'the
waters' were already there at the start; that the land was already
underneath them; and that the rest of 'the universe' doesn't amount to much
beyond some pretty lights stuck on a solid ceiling. You really call that
'creating'? [...] And what's more, what was 'moving' on 'the face of the
waters'
was 'Elohim' - which is, ummm, plural..."
-----
You people are *pathetic*. No wonder everyone with an education laughs at
you...!
Boy, is your religion fucked up, or what!?!?!
And you're such a mature adult, to boot, huh?
Can't handle having no textual support for your illusions, can ya, kid...?
Fact is, you don't even know your own religion... And even if you did, it
would still be *****!!
LOL!!
Bonf.
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| User: "70AD" |
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| Title: Re: WHY DOESN'T GOD GO ON TELEVSION AND TELL US IF HE IS THE INTELLIGENT DESIGNER? |
02 Jan 2006 11:11:05 AM |
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On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 15:45:19 GMT, "'Bonfire of the
Deities...'" <Bonfire@tert.com> spake thusly:
Boy, is your religion fucked up, or what!?!?!
Btw, don't be so stupid as to claim that you don't
believe and you don't care, with that handle.
Atheists are about as dumb as it gets. <chuckle>
--
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
The real problem with creationism is that
our governments don't have the will to
prosecute the offenders (there are more
troublesome criminals around for one thing)
and our churches have lost the will to combat
heresies. - Dave Oldridge
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| User: "Bonfire of the Deities..." |
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| Title: Re: WHY DOESN'T GOD GO ON TELEVSION AND TELL US IF HE IS THE INTELLIGENT DESIGNER? |
02 Jan 2006 11:34:37 AM |
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"70AD" <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:rjnir1l74hbo04d0n7cmnpc33pmi5r9oav@4ax.com...
On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 15:45:19 GMT, "'Bonfire of the
Deities...'" <Bonfire@tert.com> spake thusly:
Boy, is your religion fucked up, or what!?!?!
Btw, don't be so stupid as to claim that you don't
believe and you don't care, with that handle.
Me...? 'Believe'...?? In some cretinous wish-fulfilment myth erected on the
basis of a rag-bag assemblage of incoherent Bronze-Age texts -- and which
you yourself don't even know in any detail....?!? LOL!! Your religion's
finished, kid: we don't need Bronze-Age fictions any more. Humanity has
moved on. Get with the program.
My 'handle', since you raise the issue, refers to *the end of Wagner's
'Gotterdammerung'*: it's got nothing *at all* to do with your fairy-story
sky-god. So: you lose *again*...
Atheists are about as dumb as it gets. <chuckle>
Chuckle on: it's your only escape. Your kind lost this one *before you were
even born*...
Bonf.
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| User: "Scott Richter" |
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| Title: Re: WHY DOESN'T GOD GO ON TELEVSION AND TELL US IF HE IS THE INTELLIGENT DESIGNER? |
02 Jan 2006 11:20:25 AM |
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70AD <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> wrote:
Atheists are about as dumb as it gets. <chuckle>
Resorting to childish name calling is "about as dumb as it gets".
Come back when you have something intelligent to say, Chuckles.
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| User: "CreateThis" |
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| Title: Re: WHY DOESN'T GOD GO ON TELEVSION AND TELL US IF HE IS THE INTELLIGENTDESIGNER? |
02 Jan 2006 02:45:40 PM |
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70AD wrote:
On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 15:45:19 GMT, "'Bonfire of the
Deities...'" <Bonfire@tert.com> spake thusly:
Boy, is your religion fucked up, or what!?!?!
Btw, don't be so stupid as to claim that you don't
believe and you don't care, with that handle.
Atheists are about as dumb as it gets. <chuckle>
There are no atheists, but they're all dumb? <chuckle>
CT
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| User: "Ye Old One" |
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| Title: Re: Re: WHY DOESN'T GOD GO ON TELEVSION AND TELL US IF HE IS THE INTELLIGENT DESIGNER? |
02 Jan 2006 03:16:16 PM |
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On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 17:11:05 GMT, 70AD <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com>
enriched this group when s/he wrote:
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
And yet hundreds of generations have passed - yet another failure of
"god's word".
--
Bob.
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| User: "Craig Franck" |
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| Title: Re: WHY DOESN'T GOD GO ON TELEVSION AND TELL US IF HE IS THE INTELLIGENT DESIGNER? |
02 Jan 2006 06:32:36 PM |
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"70AD" wrote
Shane spake thusly:
Enough straw in that lot to feed the cows through this winter.
Your post did not deal with my statements directly
and your "logic" was one of convenience, from
paragraph, to paragraph.
1) God is not just "a parent". He is the Creator of
the universe and as such, commands respect and awe.
Not everyone is impressed with His work.
2) God is not everyone's parent. He is the Parent
of those who are born again. Not everyone is a
child of God and that is not what Scripture teaches.
3) Parenthood does not mean jumping to every demand,
so noting that children make demands, is illogical, at
best, since it does not speak to the issue that I
actually brought up, which is that if God did what
the atheists want, just because they want it, then
He wouldn't be God.
You're one to talk about logic. Why doesn't God show Himself?
Because if He did, He wouldn't be God.
I've never met an actual atheist. Just real scared
believers.
I think you're projecting here.
And in the future, don't bother me with stupid,
illogical arguments of convenience.
So you can continue to keep reality at arms length, no doubt.
--
Craig Franck
craig.franck@verizon.net
Cortland, NY
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| User: "kathryn" |
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| Title: Re: WHY DOESN'T GOD GO ON TELEVSION AND TELL US IF HE IS THE INTELLIGENT DESIGNER? |
02 Jan 2006 09:46:11 AM |
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I've never met an actual atheist. Just real scared
believers.
and I've never met a real theist, just real scared atheists
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| User: "nmp" |
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| Title: Re: WHY DOESN'T GOD GO ON TELEVSION AND TELL US IF HE IS THE INTELLIGENT DESIGNER? |
02 Jan 2006 03:30:30 PM |
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On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 15:46:11 +0000, it was decided that kathryn should
write:
I've never met an actual atheist. Just real scared
believers.
and I've never met a real theist, just real scared atheists
Bravo!
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| User: "William Wingstedt" |
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| Title: Re: WHY DOESN'T GOD GO ON TELEVSION AND TELL US IF HE IS THE INTELLIGENT DESIGNER? |
03 Jan 2006 12:47:42 AM |
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On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 22:30:30 +0100, nmp <address@is.invalid> wrote:
On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 15:46:11 +0000, it was decided that kathryn should
write:
I've never met an actual atheist. Just real scared
believers.
and I've never met a real theist, just real scared atheists
Bravo!
Hear! Hear!
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| User: "Ye Old One" |
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| Title: Re: Re: WHY DOESN'T GOD GO ON TELEVSION AND TELL US IF HE IS THE INTELLIGENT DESIGNER? |
02 Jan 2006 03:10:25 PM |
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On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 15:08:15 GMT, 70AD <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com>
enriched this group when s/he wrote:
I've never met an actual atheist.
Liar!
--
Bob.
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| User: "mouser" |
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| Title: Re: Re: WHY DOESN'T GOD GO ON TELEVSION AND TELL US IF HE IS THE INTELLIGENT DESIGNER? |
04 Jan 2006 09:20:56 PM |
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Long ago I figured there is no real conflict between Darwin's evolution (it
is not longer just a theory)
and God as creator. God at t=0 created the universe (the Big Bang). This
allowed, with the passage of
millions of years for the various dozens of elements to form. The heavier
ones in a supernova.
Thus, the wondrous materials, such as carbon and oxygen were formed and with
water etc on the earth
which formed, say, 8 billion years ago, the materials and conditions
appeared on the earth.
These wondrous materials were surely magical to allow animals and
intelligent humans to emerge.
Forget magic. Give me modern science that everyday discovers something new
and wonderful about
our wonderful universe.
Please read Ken Miller's discussion of evolution held together in perfect
intellectual honesty with
Darwin's ideas. God thus becomes the one one who creates the universe and
from the first set
the conditions, materials and laws paving the way for the eventual emergence
of life ..
Praise the Lord. Image, an colossal pool table (the universe) where the
Great Pool Shark (God) breaks
and clears the table with one well placed shot. Game over. The
Intelligent Design folk do not do justice to
either the complexity of life nor the smarts of God. Poor science and poor
religion.
Willy
"Ye Old One" <usenet@mcsuk.net> wrote in message
news:ph5jr114gcrec985bjqh8skr6qgisn1r8t@4ax.com...
On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 15:08:15 GMT, 70AD <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com>
enriched this group when s/he wrote:
I've never met an actual atheist.
Liar!
--
Bob.
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| User: "Shane" |
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| Title: Re: WHY DOESN'T GOD GO ON TELEVSION AND TELL US IF HE IS THE INTELLIGENT DESIGNER? |
02 Jan 2006 10:40:09 AM |
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On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 15:08:15 GMT, 70AD wrote:
On Tue, 3 Jan 2006 01:46:53 +1000, Shane
<remarcsd@Netscape.net> spake thusly:
On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 14:04:19 GMT, 70AD wrote:
On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 11:25:44 +0000, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> spake thusly:
I don't think there are any good conventionally religious answers to
it. In the Christian tradition the answer is usually that if God let
us knew for a fact that he exists this would in some way compromise
our free-will. Personally I don't think that's a sufficient answer in
the context of Christian theology.
People want to put God under a microscope and the
atheists demand that He submit Himself to testing.
Why would an atheist demand something of that which they consider to be
non existant?
To do so, would mean that He isn't God. We are,
since we would be making demands of Him, that
He would be completing.
Yet, Abraham, Jacob, Moses, David and others all made requests and/or
argued with god, and he is still god, go figure. Does making a demand of
your parents and they accede, mean they are no longer your parents?
Imagine if you created the universe...
The GALL of those far inferior humans, making
DEMANDS of you? Please! (:
Yeah, imagine if you had created a person, and they demanded something
of you .... oh wait a minute, it's called parenthood.
Being a loving God, does not mean being someone's
puppet and asking "How high?", when they say, "Jump".
Who said it did? apparently, it means similar things to being a parent,
and acceding to that which is possible and beneficial.
Nor does being a good person, equate to making demands
of your Creator.
Again, who said it did.
Enough straw in that lot to feed the cows through this winter.
Your post did not deal with my statements directly
and your "logic" was one of convenience, from
paragraph, to paragraph.
1) God is not just "a parent". He is the Creator of
the universe and as such, commands respect and awe.
Who said he was just a parent? I never did. My words were; "apparently,
it means similar things to being a parent ..."
2) God is not everyone's parent. He is the Parent
of those who are born again. Not everyone is a
child of God and that is not what Scripture teaches.
Ephesians 4:6: One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through
all, and in you all.
3) Parenthood does not mean jumping to every demand,
Strawman; Who said it did? my actual words were "Does making a demand of
your parents and they accede ..." which does not even imply that "they
jump at every demand". I further stated "... it means similar things to
being a parent, and acceding to that which is possible and beneficial."
Did you not see the possible and beneficial parts in there.
so noting that children make demands, is illogical,
What is illogical about it.
at
best, since it does not speak to the issue that I
actually brought up, which is that if God did what
the atheists want, just because they want it, then
He wouldn't be God.
Yeah, you made the statement, what was lacking was any supporting
evidence.
As for your "parent" statement, which was just an
argument of convenience for you, neither would a parent
by a good parent by doing such and you know that.
But you suspend logic, for the convenience of your
hatred of God.
Addressed above, your reading for comprehension skills apparently need
sharpening.
And don't bother telling me that you don't hate what
doesn't exist.
I am not an atheist.
You wouldn't have bothered making
that argument, if you didn't believe and didn't care.
I care about truth, and truthfully representing the beliefs of others to
the best of my knowledge and ability is important to me. It seems it is
not important to you.
I've never met an actual atheist. Just real scared
believers.
You should get out more.
And as for your question of which atheists would
argue that,
What question are you referring to here?
lots of them do, right here, in these
news groups. So take it up with them.
And in the future, don't bother me with stupid,
illogical arguments of convenience.
I have yet to do so, and am not planning on doing so, so your fears are
groundless. However I rather suspect that any argument that you disagree
with, will turn out to be, by your own definition, a stupid and
illogical argument of convenience.
--
Shane
The truth will set you free.
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| User: "70AD" |
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| Title: Re: WHY DOESN'T GOD GO ON TELEVSION AND TELL US IF HE IS THE INTELLIGENT DESIGNER? |
02 Jan 2006 11:16:08 AM |
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On Tue, 3 Jan 2006 02:40:09 +1000, Shane
<remarcsd@Netscape.net> spake thusly:
2) God is not everyone's parent. He is the Parent
of those who are born again. Not everyone is a
child of God and that is not what Scripture teaches.
Ephesians 4:6: One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through
all, and in you all.
Yes, you're very bright and quite the Biblical expert,
aren't you?
All who are his children. But you didn't care about
looking at context, did you? No, of course not. The
context is, "one faith, one baptism". And Scripture
also teaches that we are adopted into God's family
and Jesus told the Pharisees that their father was
the Devil.
But hey, you're a Biblical genius, who knows it all
and would never quote out of context, because
you're so honest, just like all atheists are, right?
so noting that children make demands, is illogical,
What is illogical about it.
If you're that stupid, then you aren't worth wasting
time on. You wouldn't even say that about human
parents, but of course, like the honest atheist that
you are, you decided that when it comes to God, it
is perfectly logical.
You're upset that your standard garbage won't work
on me and I don't waste my time with liars. Goodbye.
--
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
"Theology and ethics are inextricably bound together.
Yet under the supposed banner of unity, we have
harbored enemy ships - as long as they flew our flag.
That policy must change. Tolerating enemies of the
historic Christian faith as though they were our
brethren is not love, but adultery. The substance
of the faith is the only basis for unity."
- The Agony of Deceit, p23
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