"Anatid Bonecki" <Anatid@volcanomail.com> wrote in message
news:ac57a0d7.0311250953.5c150cbd@posting.google.com...

I wonder why it is suddenly considered a "derangement" to believe in
past lives? Heck, Shirley McLaine may be equally "deranged" but I bet
she makes more money in one month that these idiots ever made in a
year! I guess most Hindus and Buddhsists are equally "deranged." It's
amazing how in atheism everything non-atheistic must filter down into
essential insanity. What a sterile world view these guys have.

Anatid

riiiight. I used to be a buddhist. not all sects of buddhism believe in
reincarnation or the soul. all buddhist sects are atheist. just to let you
know

"Martin Crisp" <Spam.Bucket@tesseract.com.au> wrote in message > >

There is evidence for a God. It's all around you and indwelling you. You

such as?

Well, you're pretty smart, so perhaps you can give me and

science and religion and all humans an explanation of what life
is and how it works? Maybe you know how the universe was
created and how it works, because apparently Einstein and
Hawkings still don't have the answers. You are alive. That's
proof number one. The fact that you are functioning and can ask
these questions is two. Of course you will say "those aren't
proofs." I beg to differ. Because I say they are proofs.
Because God is whatever it is making us conscious and motivated
to ask questions. God is Self.

simply refuse to believe what is obvious. You say there is no evidence

Well 'believe' is a strange word to use for the keyboard that
is _obvious_ under my fingertips, for the screen in front of
me, for the chair I'm sitting on, for the coffee bucket near
the ashtray to the right of my right speaker.... All obvious
things. I have no trouble /acknowledging/ these _obvious_
things exist; but I don't 'believe' they exist, I don't need
to - they _do_ exist.

Do you believe your pancreas exists?

Better yet, do you need to KNOW it exists for it to function?

Have you seen the cells that go to make up your right toenail
lately? or do you just see the toenail and "believe" the cells
exist? Do you see the oxygen you are breathing? How about the
water vapor in the air? How about the carcinogens in your
coffee? All those "obvious" things you cannot see are just as
"real" as the not so obvious ones. Can anyone see electricity?
Not even the sparks and light you see from lightning are the
actual electrons, but rather photons stirred by the invisible
electrons. You can't see the bottom of the sea, do you believe
one exists or are you absolutely dead positive it does on some
other level than having seen it or felt it?

Less obvious things are items such as the planet Pluto, which I
cannot observe, but have no reason to doubt its existence (given
I've seen photos and so on).

So photographic evidence for the atomic structure of irridium
are lacking. Do you still "believe" irridium" exists? BTW,
photos can be easily fudged.

I accept Pluto's existence, though I
still don't find 'believe' a good word - the evidence is there,
belief is unnecessary.

You have no personal evidence Pluto exists. You have only

blurry photos and hearsay evidence. Two years ago, Pluto was a
planet. Today it is an object. Why? Because someone with more
money and a bigger telescope than you decided it was.
Definitions change. Objects appear and disappear. Quantum
physics posits a universe where things act as the viewer
expects them to act, even when two viewers have two different
expectations. Photons seem to be able to "clone" themselves and
appear at two different places at the same time. But if a whole
person appears to do this is is suddenly "unbelievable." And of
course God is unbelieveable too! So what? That does not prove
God doesn't exist. And to me the existence of the unbelievable
is good evidence for God.

Now where is this 'obvious' evidence of this 'god'? Shouldn't
'obvious' evidence cause 'acceptance' rather than 'belief'? Why is
it you need to 'believe' if the evidence is 'obvious'?

That's why I KNOW God exists. I don't need to believe. I have
direct evidence. You could have it too. Just like mine. But if
you won't believe it is possible, then for you it ceases to be
possible.

because it makes it easier to believe that there is nothing to
believe in.

As far as I can see there is zero evidence of 'gods'

As far as I can see there is zero evidence for your appendix.
Maybe you have one, maybe you don't. How am I to know, unless I

ask you? Hint: You want to find God? You want evidence? ASK
HIM. But ooooh! Spooky, if you get an answer, guess what?
Everyone assumes you are nuts!

I know where I can get access to such a microscope. I can
therefore examine this evidence for myself, where can I see
evidence of 'God'?

He's all around you. And guess what. He can speak! So ask Him.

well, if you show me the evidence, we can talk.

I can't give it to you. God does not make Himself evident
unless you specifically ask. I can't ask for you. You have to
really want it. Most people are happy without it. Happy as
clams in the mud. Generally speaking, knowing God really
complicates your life.

/allows/?

So 'God' is the Australian Department of Social Security? Or 'God'
is the massed Australian Taxpayer?

That's right. More importantly, God is Everything. God is even YOU.

Oh, 'God' is the board of AMP, who floated their company on the
stock market, and gave me a windfall packet of shares (from which
the computer was purchased)?

Of course God is that. God is the PATTERN that makes your life work.

How I can make a real difference.... hmm, you mean like donating
blood to save lives? [~55 donations so far] You mean like giving
up a pretty good, and very secure, job so I can care for my
invalid wife?

Right. Of course though this is not evidence to you of God,
this is evidence of how special you feel about your
contribution. And you should fee special about these
contributions. However you should try not to be so glib about

evidence of God, because when you are laughing at others, you

tend to miss the evidence. The love you have for your wife is
God working in you. The concern you have for the donating of
blood is God working in your li e. It is really hard for me to
believe no one has told you this yet...

Actually, since you apparently think your 'God' /allows/ these
things, why did it /allow/ my wife to be born blind?

A better question is why did God allow your blind love partner

to survive to her present age with your help and other people's
help? Do you know how long a blind calf or lion cub in the wild
would live? Yet God is in them too. Sometimes it is more of a
merciful thing to allow a handicapped animal to succumb to
nature. But for people, we tend to reject this cold process. Yet
before we believed in any God, that process happened to us.
17,000 years ago, had your wife been born blind, she might have

never reached maturity. And so no one would know her wonderful
nature. Or her beauty. Nor would they know what it is like to

be blind or aid a blind person, the reward it gives the soul to
help and cherish another being. You helped and others helped
give her a life. That is God working. We are actually the ones

who make the choice to come into the physical body. That choice
carries a lot of "riders" or attachments with the contract. I
could go blind because my pancreas which I have never seen, is
doing things I don't quite understand. It's called diabetes. I

don't blame God. I am happy that I lived and am alive. Once you
find God, another hint: You won't feel the need to blame Him
anymore. Because He'll inform you as to the why's of your life.

Why does it

/allow/ thousands of people to starve to death each day?

We allow them to starve, my friend. When God ceases to work

within us and we deny the sacredness of all life.

Is it
because it can do nothing else? That's the crux of it, really,
isn't it? Whatever happens, 'God' allows. 'God', in other words,
can _do_ nothing. Things that have no effect on reality are1)
undetectable (like your 'God' seems to be) and 2) are identical
with things that don't exist.

You simply don't understand the contract or the nature of the
terms yet. It might take several lifetimes to do so. But you'll
"get it." At least you are asking questions instead of just
belligerently telling me your opinion and trying to get me to
believe it is absolute truth.

Where's your evidence for this do-nothing you label 'God'?

God does things, my friend. He does things through you. But
only if you allow it. So one might ask, Why are you not
allowing God to do His work? Why are you interfering? Why

aren't you asking for some assistance? The contract is about
Free Will. As long as you have it, God will do nothing, if this
is what YOU want.

Now, you bastards crossposted to our NG first. And you are still there,

I've been in alt.atheism for several years, I've never seen
'Monday Mourning' in here before, nor have I seen 'bear163', who
'Monday Mourning' replied to, to initiate this thread in
alt.atheism. i.e as far as I can see the crossposting is initiated
by someone outside alt.atheism. To conclude that 'we' started it
is slightly more logical than concluding your 'God' exists
(because it isn't actually contradicted by reality).

First of all the "bastards" I was refering to were not the NG
known as alt.atheism. I do not know where the bastards posted
from. So I have to include all the headers to talk to them.
They claim to be atheists. So one assumes they are posting from
alt. atheism. However I found out recently that a lot of them

post from other places, some with Christian in the title! Now
that really is sick. I never heard of you before. So apparently
I said something to offend your sensibilities. Sorry. But

really I wasn't speaking to you specifically. Accept my
apologies. Note the headers. This is no longer a cross post,
but a response to your post.

You have fun too. You ask good questions. Perhaps I made a
mistake in answering them because you were just being glib and
already KNOW God simply is a big fairy tale. But believe me,

you'll have all the time in the world to find out differently.
Meanwhile, pat yourself on the back for being a good husband,
father and devoted Australian taxpayer.