| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Jim F." |
| Date: |
08 Jun 2004 07:07:54 PM |
| Object: |
Re: Wonderful world of atheism |
"Mary Hogan" <hoogy@zoominternet.net> wrote in message
news:40c6028d$1_2@corp.newsgroups.com...
The evolutionary theory is based solely on random occurrences.....
You obviously haven't been keeping up. Your statement is flat out wrong.
The process of natural selection is NOT a random process. One could
describe the process of the generation of variations, to be random, at
least in relation to natural selection. But even the generation of
variations
by mutations is not literally speaking a random process either. And those
variations, no matter how random they might be, are subjected to
differential selection by their environments.
Lack of
design = no plan... How could there be no plan...when everything has an
apparent purpose of some sort...whether it is clear or not clear to the
observer.
That's why I have suggested that people read Dawkins' book *The Blind
Watchmaker* since he deals directly with that question. And his answer
is that the adaptiveness of organisms to their environment is explicable
in terms of purely natural, mechanistic processes. No designer, need
be posited, in order to account for it.
And though something is unclear on Tuesday doesn't mean that a gigantic
breakthrough could occur on Wednesday.
People publish...to keep their egos afloat. Take "Climbing Mount
Improbable", Richard Dawkins
Dawkins thought he came up with the end all be all proof.....
So what if Dawkins has a big ego. What counts is whether or
not his work can stand up to critical scrutiny. Einstein had a
big ego too, so what? And Isaac Newton? He not only had
a big ego but he was a real putz too. But his work has managed
to hold up quite well.
Then go to Alejandro Backer....who disputes the so called "abject
revelation
of the missing element!!!"
You say you know it all...but just how transient is your knowledge?
Actually, I think you're the one who thinks she knows it all. I
have never made that claim for myself.
"Jim F." <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:2ilicaFnvgqdU1@uni-berlin.de...
"TonyaK9" <TonK911@excite.com> wrote in message
news:pg8xc.25355$Tn6.3182@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
"Jim F." <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:2ikfnhFnrjmcU1@uni-berlin.de...
"Mary Hogan" <hoogy@zoominternet.net> wrote in message
news:40c4f75a_2@corp.newsgroups.com...
Define randomness inherent in the evolutionary theory...without
denying
design.
Mary,
I am not quite sure what your point is.
Mary does not have a point.
She never had.
She will never have one.
She lives her life in a permanently stoned stage...
Back to the discussion at hand.
Jim, I am surprised that you have so far ignored valid doubts raised
by
Sheldon concerning the gaps in the theory of evolution.
Your explanations sounded much like the arguments someone would hear
from
a
believer rather than a scientist...
OK, why don't you detail what you think are valid doubts concerning
the theory of evolution. BTW are your doubts concerning evolution
itself of the theory of natural selection that is used by Darwinians
to attempt to explain evolution? Also, BTW I think that
Sheldon's quoting of Prigogine was a bit misleading since
as far as I know Prigogine was not doubting evolution itself
but was arguing that the theory of natural selection needs to
be supplemented with a theory based on an analysis of the thermodynamics
of
non-equilibrium states. There is a little bit about that sort
of stuff in his Nobel Lecture
http://www.nobel.se/chemistry/laureates/1977/prigogine-autobio.html
TK9
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|
|
| User: "Mary Hogan" |
|
| Title: Re: Wonderful world of atheism |
08 Jun 2004 08:50:02 PM |
|
|
First off, I apologize...my goal in this lifetime is improved character and
my behavior is proof that I am a work in progress.
Process of natural selection is an assumption....a thesis....a good story!
You say this thesis...not fact...is not a random process.... Why...in
chaos...would there be a "fittest" at all? Why, without the Great
Manager..would it not be variation run rampant?
How would positive mutation occur in the absence of a law requiring them to
occur?
What triggers adaptation....this one always made my head spin? In a world
of chaos....what triggers adaptation?
If you want to prove this theory.....where is the evidence?
You tell me it's a hamburger...show me the beef.
"Jim F." <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:2in2neFp3u1dU2@uni-berlin.de...
"Mary Hogan" <hoogy@zoominternet.net> wrote in message
news:40c6028d$1_2@corp.newsgroups.com...
The evolutionary theory is based solely on random occurrences.....
You obviously haven't been keeping up. Your statement is flat out wrong.
The process of natural selection is NOT a random process. One could
describe the process of the generation of variations, to be random, at
least in relation to natural selection. But even the generation of
variations
by mutations is not literally speaking a random process either. And those
variations, no matter how random they might be, are subjected to
differential selection by their environments.
Lack of
design = no plan... How could there be no plan...when everything has an
apparent purpose of some sort...whether it is clear or not clear to the
observer.
That's why I have suggested that people read Dawkins' book *The Blind
Watchmaker* since he deals directly with that question. And his answer
is that the adaptiveness of organisms to their environment is explicable
in terms of purely natural, mechanistic processes. No designer, need
be posited, in order to account for it.
And though something is unclear on Tuesday doesn't mean that a gigantic
breakthrough could occur on Wednesday.
People publish...to keep their egos afloat. Take "Climbing Mount
Improbable", Richard Dawkins
Dawkins thought he came up with the end all be all proof.....
So what if Dawkins has a big ego. What counts is whether or
not his work can stand up to critical scrutiny. Einstein had a
big ego too, so what? And Isaac Newton? He not only had
a big ego but he was a real putz too. But his work has managed
to hold up quite well.
Then go to Alejandro Backer....who disputes the so called "abject
revelation
of the missing element!!!"
You say you know it all...but just how transient is your knowledge?
Actually, I think you're the one who thinks she knows it all. I
have never made that claim for myself.
"Jim F." <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:2ilicaFnvgqdU1@uni-berlin.de...
"TonyaK9" <TonK911@excite.com> wrote in message
news:pg8xc.25355$Tn6.3182@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
"Jim F." <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:2ikfnhFnrjmcU1@uni-berlin.de...
"Mary Hogan" <hoogy@zoominternet.net> wrote in message
news:40c4f75a_2@corp.newsgroups.com...
Define randomness inherent in the evolutionary theory...without
denying
design.
Mary,
I am not quite sure what your point is.
Mary does not have a point.
She never had.
She will never have one.
She lives her life in a permanently stoned stage...
Back to the discussion at hand.
Jim, I am surprised that you have so far ignored valid doubts raised
by
Sheldon concerning the gaps in the theory of evolution.
Your explanations sounded much like the arguments someone would hear
from
a
believer rather than a scientist...
OK, why don't you detail what you think are valid doubts concerning
the theory of evolution. BTW are your doubts concerning evolution
itself of the theory of natural selection that is used by Darwinians
to attempt to explain evolution? Also, BTW I think that
Sheldon's quoting of Prigogine was a bit misleading since
as far as I know Prigogine was not doubting evolution itself
but was arguing that the theory of natural selection needs to
be supplemented with a theory based on an analysis of the
thermodynamics
of
non-equilibrium states. There is a little bit about that sort
of stuff in his Nobel Lecture
http://www.nobel.se/chemistry/laureates/1977/prigogine-autobio.html
TK9
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|
|
|
| User: "Jim F." |
|
| Title: Re: Wonderful world of atheism |
08 Jun 2004 09:30:28 PM |
|
|
"Mary Hogan" <hoogy@zoominternet.net> wrote in message
news:40c66d2e$1_2@corp.newsgroups.com...
First off, I apologize...my goal in this lifetime is improved character
and
my behavior is proof that I am a work in progress.
Process of natural selection is an assumption....a thesis....a good story!
In other words it is not unlike most other hypotheses in the natural
sciences. After all to take an example from modern physics,
Albert Einstein in his theory of special relativity started out
from two assumptions: (1) that the laws of nature can
are the same in all inertial reference
systems and (2) the speed of light is the same in all
inertial reference systems. The acceptance of those
two assumptions was validated by the fact that Einstein
was able to derive a number of different predictions from
his theory which were vindicated by experimental testing
and observation, and by the fact that his theory provided
more compelling, more parsimonous explanations of
physical phenomena than any of its leading rivals.
In the end that is all the justification that Einstein had
for his two assumptions. Returning to our subject,
evolutionary biology, ultimately the only justification
for accepting the principle of natural selection as valid
is that it provides more compelling, more parsimonous
explanations of biological phenomena than any of its
leading rivals. That is the best one can do for providing
justification for hypotheses and theories in the natural
sciences.
You say this thesis...not fact...is not a random process.... Why...in
chaos...would there be a "fittest" at all?
Simply because in any given population of living organisms,
there are going to be variations in the characteristics that these
organisms possess. Even in, say, a litter of puppies, you can
often readily observe differences in the characteristics that
the animals possess. One puppy might be jumpier than the
others, one might be a bit more alert, another might be a
quicker learner and so forth. Within almost any population
of living organisms, you are going to observe differences in
the various traits that they possess. And some of the differences
may make some of the organisms better adapted to their
particular environment than others. In a very cold climate,
in a population of bears, it will probably the case that those
bears that are able to grow thicker fur coats as winter approach
are, everything else being equal, going to be better off than
other bears whose coats don't grow in as thick. The bears with
the thicker coats are going to have a little easier time maintaining
their body temperatures than those with thinner coats and that
is probably to going to give them a bit of an advantage in this
sort of environment. If that is indeed the case, then over time
we might expect that in that population, alleles for thicker coats
might begin to predominate over alleles for thinner coats because
those bears that are capable of growing the thicker coats will
have a better chance of surviving and reproducing than those
bears who only grow thinner coats. In other words the bears
that can grow the thicker coats will on average manage to
leave behind a somewhat greater number of offpspring than
the other bears.
Why, without the Great
Manager..would it not be variation run rampant?
I suppose it could but remember that most mutations are
lethal or at least not very good for the organisms that have
them so if for whatever reason (i.e exposure to a huge amount
of ionizing radiation) variation should run rampant then the
existence of that population is going to be placed in jeopardy,
with or without the existence of a Great Manager.
In fact your question is not such a bad one, since biologists
are interested in among other things, in exactly that question
of why we don't run rampant with variations. I suppose
the short answer is that if that did happen, those populations
so effected would soon become extinct leaving behind
only those populations where variation is kept in some sort
of check.
How would positive mutation occur in the absence of a law requiring them
to
occur?
Most mutations are negative rather than positive. Nevertheless, it is the
case that some are of positive benefit to the organisms effected
and it is also the case that a mutation which one kind of environment
might be negative may be of positive benefit in a different sort of
environment. For instance, the gene that causes sickle-cell anemia
in people of African descent, also confers resistance to malaria. As
a matter of fact, the gene that causes sickle-cell anemia is a recessive
gene, so that for a person to contract the disease they must inherit
the gene from both of their parents. On the other hand people
who inherit the gene from just one parent, fon't generally develop
this disease, at least in its full-blown version but those same people
have a higher resistance to contracting malaria. As it so happens
much of the parts of Africa, from which the ancestors of most
African-Americans hail from are areas where malaria has traditionally
run rampant. So in such an environment, the sickling gene on balance
does more good than harm to the populations in which it is found.
Most of the people who inherit this gene are going to receive just
one copy, so they will enjoy the benefits of enhance resistance to
malaria. Only a minority of people who inherit the gene will
receive two copies and so suffer the effects of sickle-cell anemia.
What triggers adaptation....this one always made my head spin? In a world
of chaos....what triggers adaptation?
I am not quite sure what you mean. Not everyone adapts well
to their environment. Within any given population, some organisms
are going to adapt better than others.
If you want to prove this theory.....where is the evidence?
You tell me it's a hamburger...show me the beef.
"Jim F." <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:2in2neFp3u1dU2@uni-berlin.de...
"Mary Hogan" <hoogy@zoominternet.net> wrote in message
news:40c6028d$1_2@corp.newsgroups.com...
The evolutionary theory is based solely on random occurrences.....
You obviously haven't been keeping up. Your statement is flat out
wrong.
The process of natural selection is NOT a random process. One could
describe the process of the generation of variations, to be random, at
least in relation to natural selection. But even the generation of
variations
by mutations is not literally speaking a random process either. And
those
variations, no matter how random they might be, are subjected to
differential selection by their environments.
Lack of
design = no plan... How could there be no plan...when everything has
an
apparent purpose of some sort...whether it is clear or not clear to
the
observer.
That's why I have suggested that people read Dawkins' book *The Blind
Watchmaker* since he deals directly with that question. And his answer
is that the adaptiveness of organisms to their environment is explicable
in terms of purely natural, mechanistic processes. No designer, need
be posited, in order to account for it.
And though something is unclear on Tuesday doesn't mean that a
gigantic
breakthrough could occur on Wednesday.
People publish...to keep their egos afloat. Take "Climbing Mount
Improbable", Richard Dawkins
Dawkins thought he came up with the end all be all proof.....
So what if Dawkins has a big ego. What counts is whether or
not his work can stand up to critical scrutiny. Einstein had a
big ego too, so what? And Isaac Newton? He not only had
a big ego but he was a real putz too. But his work has managed
to hold up quite well.
Then go to Alejandro Backer....who disputes the so called "abject
revelation
of the missing element!!!"
You say you know it all...but just how transient is your knowledge?
Actually, I think you're the one who thinks she knows it all. I
have never made that claim for myself.
"Jim F." <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:2ilicaFnvgqdU1@uni-berlin.de...
"TonyaK9" <TonK911@excite.com> wrote in message
news:pg8xc.25355$Tn6.3182@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
"Jim F." <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:2ikfnhFnrjmcU1@uni-berlin.de...
"Mary Hogan" <hoogy@zoominternet.net> wrote in message
news:40c4f75a_2@corp.newsgroups.com...
Define randomness inherent in the evolutionary
theory...without
denying
design.
Mary,
I am not quite sure what your point is.
Mary does not have a point.
She never had.
She will never have one.
She lives her life in a permanently stoned stage...
Back to the discussion at hand.
Jim, I am surprised that you have so far ignored valid doubts
raised
by
Sheldon concerning the gaps in the theory of evolution.
Your explanations sounded much like the arguments someone would
hear
from
a
believer rather than a scientist...
OK, why don't you detail what you think are valid doubts concerning
the theory of evolution. BTW are your doubts concerning evolution
itself of the theory of natural selection that is used by Darwinians
to attempt to explain evolution? Also, BTW I think that
Sheldon's quoting of Prigogine was a bit misleading since
as far as I know Prigogine was not doubting evolution itself
but was arguing that the theory of natural selection needs to
be supplemented with a theory based on an analysis of the
thermodynamics
of
non-equilibrium states. There is a little bit about that sort
of stuff in his Nobel Lecture
http://www.nobel.se/chemistry/laureates/1977/prigogine-autobio.html
TK9
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.
|
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|
|
| User: "John M Price PhD" |
|
| Title: Re: Wonderful world of atheism |
12 Jun 2004 05:25:03 PM |
|
|
In alt.atheism article <40c66d2e$1_2@corp.newsgroups.com> Mary Hogan <hoogy@zoominternet.net> wrote:
: What triggers adaptation....this one always made my head spin? In a world
: of chaos....what triggers adaptation?
There is no goal [to natural selection]. There is indeed a result,
but it is unplanned, and simply takes advantage of the extant phenotypes.
It utilizes what by some is called 'pre-adaptation', the existence
of a phenotypic and correspondingly genotypic subgroup of individuals
which, when looked at post hoc, had those traits which survived
a specific change in the selective pressures.
- John M Price, PhD (On SKEPTIC)
: If you want to prove this theory.....where is the evidence?
The lack of dinosaur crossing signs?
(c) 2004. Copyright, John M. Price, PhD. All Rights Reserved.
Contents may not be republished in any form or medium without prior
written consent of the author with the express and only exception of
followup postings limited to and within usenet.
--
John M. Price, PhD
Life: Chemistry, but with feeling! | PGP Key on request or FTP!
Email responses to my Usenet articles will be posted at my discretion.
Comoderator: sci.psychology.psychotherapy.moderated Atheist# 683
We're going to have to take one step at a time, and the first step is
necessarily--given the political realities--going to be very modest...
So then we'll have to start working again to strengthen the law, and
then again to strengthen the next law, and maybe again and again.
Right now, though, we'd be satisfied not with half a loaf but with a
slice. Our ultimate goal--total control of handguns in the United
States--is going to take time... The first problem is to slow down the
increasing number of guns being produced and sold in this country. The
second problem is to get handguns registered. And the final problem is
to make the possession of all handguns and all handgun ammunition
except for the military, policemen, licensed security guards, licensed
sporting clubs, and licensed gun collectors totally illegal.
- Pete Shields, Chairman Emeritus, Handgun Control, Inc.,
founded the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence, as
quoted in The New Yorker Magazine 1976
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mary Hogan" |
|
| Title: Re: Wonderful world of atheism |
12 Jun 2004 05:28:54 PM |
|
|
How about dinosaurs uncovered standing on their head through so call
geological periods...was his head created 2 virginillion years before his
tail? Get real.
"John M Price PhD" <> wrote in message
news:40cb82bf$0$22005$d368eab@news.calweb.com...
In alt.atheism article <40c66d2e$1_2@corp.newsgroups.com> Mary Hogan
<hoogy@zoominternet.net> wrote:
: What triggers adaptation....this one always made my head spin? In a
world
: of chaos....what triggers adaptation?
There is no goal [to natural selection]. There is indeed a result,
but it is unplanned, and simply takes advantage of the extant phenotypes.
It utilizes what by some is called 'pre-adaptation', the existence
of a phenotypic and correspondingly genotypic subgroup of individuals
which, when looked at post hoc, had those traits which survived
a specific change in the selective pressures.
- John M Price, PhD (On SKEPTIC)
: If you want to prove this theory.....where is the evidence?
The lack of dinosaur crossing signs?
(c) 2004. Copyright, John M. Price, PhD. All Rights Reserved.
Contents may not be republished in any form or medium without prior
written consent of the author with the express and only exception of
followup postings limited to and within usenet.
--
John M. Price, PhD
Life: Chemistry, but with feeling! | PGP Key on request or FTP!
Email responses to my Usenet articles will be posted at my discretion.
Comoderator: sci.psychology.psychotherapy.moderated Atheist# 683
We're going to have to take one step at a time, and the first step is
necessarily--given the political realities--going to be very modest...
So then we'll have to start working again to strengthen the law, and
then again to strengthen the next law, and maybe again and again.
Right now, though, we'd be satisfied not with half a loaf but with a
slice. Our ultimate goal--total control of handguns in the United
States--is going to take time... The first problem is to slow down the
increasing number of guns being produced and sold in this country. The
second problem is to get handguns registered. And the final problem is
to make the possession of all handguns and all handgun ammunition
except for the military, policemen, licensed security guards, licensed
sporting clubs, and licensed gun collectors totally illegal.
- Pete Shields, Chairman Emeritus, Handgun Control, Inc.,
founded the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence, as
quoted in The New Yorker Magazine 1976
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
.
|
|
|
| User: "TonyaK9" |
|
| Title: Re: Wonderful world of atheism |
12 Jun 2004 05:49:14 PM |
|
|
"Mary Hogan" <hoogy@zoominternet.net> wrote in message
news:40cb8410$1_7@corp.newsgroups.com...
How about dinosaurs uncovered standing on their head through so call
geological periods...was his head created 2 virginillion years before his
tail? Get real.
Stop smokin' that grass, Mary - it gets you stoned beyond a piece of
granite...
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Riain Barton" |
|
| Title: Re: Wonderful world of atheism |
12 Jun 2004 09:33:48 PM |
|
|
You know the Ohio State University has extension courses!!!
"Mary Hogan" <hoogy@zoominternet.net> wrote in message
news:40cb8410$1_7@corp.newsgroups.com...
| How about dinosaurs uncovered standing on their head through so call
| geological periods...was his head created 2 virginillion years before his
| tail? Get real.
|
|
| "John M Price PhD" <jmprice@calweb.com> wrote in message
| news:40cb82bf$0$22005$d368eab@news.calweb.com...
| > In alt.atheism article <40c66d2e$1_2@corp.newsgroups.com> Mary Hogan
| <hoogy@zoominternet.net> wrote:
| >
| > : What triggers adaptation....this one always made my head spin? In a
| world
| > : of chaos....what triggers adaptation?
| >
| > There is no goal [to natural selection]. There is indeed a result,
| > but it is unplanned, and simply takes advantage of the extant
phenotypes.
| > It utilizes what by some is called 'pre-adaptation', the existence
| > of a phenotypic and correspondingly genotypic subgroup of individuals
| > which, when looked at post hoc, had those traits which survived
| > a specific change in the selective pressures.
| > - John M Price, PhD (On SKEPTIC)
| >
| > : If you want to prove this theory.....where is the evidence?
| >
| > The lack of dinosaur crossing signs?
| >
| >
| > (c) 2004. Copyright, John M. Price, PhD. All Rights Reserved.
| > Contents may not be republished in any form or medium without prior
| > written consent of the author with the express and only exception of
| > followup postings limited to and within usenet.
| > --
| > John M. Price, PhD
jmprice@calweb.com
| > Life: Chemistry, but with feeling! | PGP Key on request or
FTP!
| > Email responses to my Usenet articles will be posted at my discretion.
| > Comoderator: sci.psychology.psychotherapy.moderated Atheist#
683
| >
| > We're going to have to take one step at a time, and the first step is
| > necessarily--given the political realities--going to be very modest...
| > So then we'll have to start working again to strengthen the law, and
| > then again to strengthen the next law, and maybe again and again.
| > Right now, though, we'd be satisfied not with half a loaf but with a
| > slice. Our ultimate goal--total control of handguns in the United
| > States--is going to take time... The first problem is to slow down the
| > increasing number of guns being produced and sold in this country. The
| > second problem is to get handguns registered. And the final problem is
| > to make the possession of all handguns and all handgun ammunition
| > except for the military, policemen, licensed security guards, licensed
| > sporting clubs, and licensed gun collectors totally illegal.
| > - Pete Shields, Chairman Emeritus, Handgun Control, Inc.,
| > founded the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence, as
| > quoted in The New Yorker Magazine 1976
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
|
|
|
|
| -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
| http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
| -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
.
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|
| User: "Colin Day" |
|
| Title: Re: Wonderful world of atheism |
12 Jun 2004 02:53:32 PM |
|
|
Mary Hogan wrote:
First off, I apologize...my goal in this lifetime is improved character and
my behavior is proof that I am a work in progress.
Process of natural selection is an assumption....a thesis....a good story!
You say this thesis...not fact...is not a random process.... Why...in
chaos...would there be a "fittest" at all? Why, without the Great
What chaos?
Manager..would it not be variation run rampant?
Look at the variety of life, perhaps it has.
Also, variants have to survive and procreate, and not all
of them do so.
How would positive mutation occur in the absence of a law requiring them to
occur?
What triggers adaptation....this one always made my head spin? In a world
of chaos....what triggers adaptation?
Adaption isn't triggered. An organism is either fit to propagate or not..
And what is this world of chaos?
If you want to prove this theory.....where is the evidence?
Fossil evidence, DNA, . . .
You tell me it's a hamburger...show me the beef.
Colin Day
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mary Hogan" |
|
| Title: Re: Wonderful world of atheism |
12 Jun 2004 03:48:09 PM |
|
|
You are suggesting that the limited amount of variants...all basically
related by a similarity that is unbelievably organized...is vast?
The number of digits at the end of appendages. The number of heads on each
individual organism. The ingestion excretion cycle.... The procreation
potential with unlimited variety. You are thinking in the box. You are
thinking according to the design that God initiated to prevent utter
chaos...
"Colin Day" <cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:40CB6524.9050503@sc.rr.com...
Mary Hogan wrote:
First off, I apologize...my goal in this lifetime is improved character
and
my behavior is proof that I am a work in progress.
Process of natural selection is an assumption....a thesis....a good
story!
You say this thesis...not fact...is not a random process.... Why...in
chaos...would there be a "fittest" at all? Why, without the Great
What chaos?
Manager..would it not be variation run rampant?
Look at the variety of life, perhaps it has.
Also, variants have to survive and procreate, and not all
of them do so.
How would positive mutation occur in the absence of a law requiring them
to
occur?
What triggers adaptation....this one always made my head spin? In a
world
of chaos....what triggers adaptation?
Adaption isn't triggered. An organism is either fit to propagate or not..
And what is this world of chaos?
If you want to prove this theory.....where is the evidence?
Fossil evidence, DNA, . . .
You tell me it's a hamburger...show me the beef.
Colin Day
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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.
|
|
|
| User: "Mary Hogan" |
|
| Title: Re: Wonderful world of atheism |
12 Jun 2004 03:50:21 PM |
|
|
And yes I did mean...according to the design that God initiated, for without
this Brainiac design.... there would be no order.
What I meant was you....are not thinking...atheistically.... You need God
just as much as I need God!!
"Mary Hogan" <hoogy@zoominternet.net> wrote in message
news:40cb6c74$1_7@corp.newsgroups.com...
You are suggesting that the limited amount of variants...all basically
related by a similarity that is unbelievably organized...is vast?
The number of digits at the end of appendages. The number of heads on
each
individual organism. The ingestion excretion cycle.... The procreation
potential with unlimited variety. You are thinking in the box. You are
thinking according to the design that God initiated to prevent utter
chaos...
"Colin Day" <cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:40CB6524.9050503@sc.rr.com...
Mary Hogan wrote:
First off, I apologize...my goal in this lifetime is improved
character
and
my behavior is proof that I am a work in progress.
Process of natural selection is an assumption....a thesis....a good
story!
You say this thesis...not fact...is not a random process.... Why...in
chaos...would there be a "fittest" at all? Why, without the Great
What chaos?
Manager..would it not be variation run rampant?
Look at the variety of life, perhaps it has.
Also, variants have to survive and procreate, and not all
of them do so.
How would positive mutation occur in the absence of a law requiring
them
to
occur?
What triggers adaptation....this one always made my head spin? In a
world
of chaos....what triggers adaptation?
Adaption isn't triggered. An organism is either fit to propagate or
not..
And what is this world of chaos?
If you want to prove this theory.....where is the evidence?
Fossil evidence, DNA, . . .
You tell me it's a hamburger...show me the beef.
Colin Day
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
.
|
|
|
| User: "John M Price PhD" |
|
| Title: Re: Wonderful world of atheism |
12 Jun 2004 05:18:05 PM |
|
|
In alt.atheism article <40cb6d3a$1_7@corp.newsgroups.com> Mary Hogan <hoogy@zoominternet.net> wrote:
: And yes I did mean...according to the design that God initiated, for without
: this Brainiac design.... there would be no order.
### ####### ### ###
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### ### ### ### ###
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######## ########### ######## ###
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(c) 2004. Copyright, John M. Price, PhD. All Rights Reserved.
Contents may not be republished in any form or medium without prior
written consent of the author with the express and only exception of
followup postings limited to and within usenet.
--
John M. Price, PhD
Life: Chemistry, but with feeling! | PGP Key on request or FTP!
Email responses to my Usenet articles will be posted at my discretion.
Comoderator: sci.psychology.psychotherapy.moderated Atheist# 683
So, why are we all here?
Simply because we're not all there!
- Alma Perry 16 April 1996
.
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|
| User: "Riain Barton" |
|
| Title: Re: Wonderful world of atheism |
12 Jun 2004 09:31:31 PM |
|
|
Is your PhD in typing?
"John M Price PhD" <> wrote in message
news:40cb811d$0$22005$d368eab@news.calweb.com...
| In alt.atheism article <40cb6d3a$1_7@corp.newsgroups.com> Mary Hogan
<hoogy@zoominternet.net> wrote:
| : And yes I did mean...according to the design that God initiated, for
without
| : this Brainiac design.... there would be no order.
|
|
|
| ### ####### ### ###
| ### ########### ### ###
| ### ### ### ### ###
| ### ### ### ### ###
| ### ### ### ### ###
| ### ### ### ###
| ######## ########### ######## ###
| ######## ######## ######## ###
|
|
|
|
| (c) 2004. Copyright, John M. Price, PhD. All Rights Reserved.
| Contents may not be republished in any form or medium without prior
| written consent of the author with the express and only exception of
| followup postings limited to and within usenet.
| --
| John M. Price, PhD
| Life: Chemistry, but with feeling! | PGP Key on request or FTP!
| Email responses to my Usenet articles will be posted at my discretion.
| Comoderator: sci.psychology.psychotherapy.moderated Atheist# 683
|
| So, why are we all here?
| Simply because we're not all there!
| - Alma Perry 16 April 1996
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Mary Hogan" |
|
| Title: Re: Wonderful world of atheism |
12 Jun 2004 05:24:04 PM |
|
|
Why would anyone ever want to still such a silly loge? Why wast the
Copyright?
"John M Price PhD" <> wrote in message
news:40cb811d$0$22005$d368eab@news.calweb.com...
In alt.atheism article <40cb6d3a$1_7@corp.newsgroups.com> Mary Hogan
<hoogy@zoominternet.net> wrote:
: And yes I did mean...according to the design that God initiated, for
without
: this Brainiac design.... there would be no order.
### ####### ### ###
### ########### ### ###
### ### ### ### ###
### ### ### ### ###
### ### ### ### ###
### ### ### ###
######## ########### ######## ###
######## ######## ######## ###
(c) 2004. Copyright, John M. Price, PhD. All Rights Reserved.
Contents may not be republished in any form or medium without prior
written consent of the author with the express and only exception of
followup postings limited to and within usenet.
--
John M. Price, PhD
Life: Chemistry, but with feeling! | PGP Key on request or FTP!
Email responses to my Usenet articles will be posted at my discretion.
Comoderator: sci.psychology.psychotherapy.moderated Atheist# 683
So, why are we all here?
Simply because we're not all there!
- Alma Perry 16 April 1996
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
.
|
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|
|
|
| User: "Robibnikoff" |
|
| Title: Re: Wonderful world of atheism |
12 Jun 2004 04:44:08 PM |
|
|
In article <40cb6d3a$1_7@corp.newsgroups.com>, Mary Hogan says...
And yes I did mean...according to the design that God initiated, for without
this Brainiac design.... there would be no order.
What I meant was you....are not thinking...atheistically.... You need God
just as much as I need God!!
God? I don't need no stinkin' god!
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "William" |
|
| Title: Re: Wonderful world of atheism |
12 Jun 2004 04:29:38 PM |
|
|
On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 16:50:21 -0400, "Mary Hogan"
<hoogy@zoominternet.net> wrote:
And yes I did mean...according to the design that God initiated, for without
this Brainiac design.... there would be no order.
What I meant was you....are not thinking...atheistically.... You need God
just as much as I need God!!
You are not making any sense.
William
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mary Hogan" |
|
| Title: Put away the World Book...I'm going to study Torah!! |
12 Jun 2004 05:37:04 PM |
|
|
All the argument I need is Torah....I just need a virginillian or so more
years to master a few Parshas.
"William" <telige@mail.clara.fl.com> wrote in message
news:40cb74cf.3971852@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk...
On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 16:50:21 -0400, "Mary Hogan"
<hoogy@zoominternet.net> wrote:
And yes I did mean...according to the design that God initiated, for
without
this Brainiac design.... there would be no order.
What I meant was you....are not thinking...atheistically.... You need
God
just as much as I need God!!
You are not making any sense.
William
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
.
|
|
|
| User: "TonyaK9" |
|
| Title: Re: Put away the World Book...I'm going to study Torah!! |
12 Jun 2004 05:54:35 PM |
|
|
"Mary Hogan" <hoogy@zoominternet.net> wrote in message
news:40cb85fb$1_7@corp.newsgroups.com...
All the argument I need is Torah....I just need a virginillian or so more
years to master a few Parshas.
Even West Virginillian won't help you, moron...
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "*nemo*" |
|
| Title: Re: Put away the World Book...I'm going to study Torah!! |
12 Jun 2004 07:27:27 PM |
|
|
In article <40cb85fb$1_7@corp.newsgroups.com>,
"Mary Hogan" <hoogy@zoominternet.net> wrote:
All the argument I need is Torah....I just need a virginillian or so more
years to master a few Parshas.
The library at Alexandria was torched because the collection of
knowledge and philosophy withing its walls was nowhere near as valuable
to a bunch of religious nuts as their one "holy book." Centuries of work
and learning up in smoke, thanks to thinking like this.
--
Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!)
BAAWA Knight! - One of those warm Southern Knights, y'all!
Charter member, SMASH!!
http://home.earthlink.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
Quotemeister since March 2002
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mary Hogan" |
|
| Title: Re: Put away the World Book...I'm going to study Torah!! |
12 Jun 2004 10:26:42 PM |
|
|
Do you know the whole story nemo? I don't think so....
"*nemo*" <nemo0037@earthlink.dieSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:nemo0037-5009D7.20272612062004@news02.east.earthlink.net...
In article <40cb85fb$1_7@corp.newsgroups.com>,
"Mary Hogan" <hoogy@zoominternet.net> wrote:
All the argument I need is Torah....I just need a virginillian or so
more
years to master a few Parshas.
The library at Alexandria was torched because the collection of
knowledge and philosophy withing its walls was nowhere near as valuable
to a bunch of religious nuts as their one "holy book." Centuries of work
and learning up in smoke, thanks to thinking like this.
--
Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!)
BAAWA Knight! - One of those warm Southern Knights, y'all!
Charter member, SMASH!!
http://home.earthlink.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
Quotemeister since March 2002
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
.
|
|
|
| User: "*nemo*" |
|
| Title: Re: Put away the World Book...I'm going to study Torah!! |
13 Jun 2004 03:51:27 AM |
|
|
In article <40cbc9e0$1_7@corp.newsgroups.com>,
"Mary Hogan" <hoogy@zoominternet.net> wrote:
Do you know the whole story nemo? I don't think so....
Which story is that? The story of Alexandria, or yours?
"*nemo*" <nemo0037@earthlink.dieSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:nemo0037-5009D7.20272612062004@news02.east.earthlink.net...
In article <40cb85fb$1_7@corp.newsgroups.com>,
"Mary Hogan" <hoogy@zoominternet.net> wrote:
All the argument I need is Torah....I just need a virginillian or so
more
years to master a few Parshas.
The library at Alexandria was torched because the collection of
knowledge and philosophy withing its walls was nowhere near as valuable
to a bunch of religious nuts as their one "holy book." Centuries of work
and learning up in smoke, thanks to thinking like this.
--
Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!)
BAAWA Knight! - One of those warm Southern Knights, y'all!
Charter member, SMASH!!
http://home.earthlink.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
Quotemeister since March 2002
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Riain Barton" |
|
| Title: Re: Put away the World Book...I'm going to study Torah!! |
12 Jun 2004 09:30:48 PM |
|
|
It was not razed by any JEWS!!!
"*nemo*" <nemo0037@earthlink.dieSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:nemo0037-5009D7.20272612062004@news02.east.earthlink.net...
| In article <40cb85fb$1_7@corp.newsgroups.com>,
| "Mary Hogan" <hoogy@zoominternet.net> wrote:
|
| > All the argument I need is Torah....I just need a virginillian or so
more
| > years to master a few Parshas.
|
| The library at Alexandria was torched because the collection of
| knowledge and philosophy withing its walls was nowhere near as valuable
| to a bunch of religious nuts as their one "holy book." Centuries of work
| and learning up in smoke, thanks to thinking like this.
|
| --
| Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
| Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!)
| BAAWA Knight! - One of those warm Southern Knights, y'all!
| Charter member, SMASH!!
| http://home.earthlink.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html
| Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
| Quotemeister since March 2002
.
|
|
|
| User: "*nemo*" |
|
| Title: Re: Put away the World Book...I'm going to study Torah!! |
13 Jun 2004 03:53:35 AM |
|
|
In article <s%Oyc.85348$DG4.82134@fe2.columbus.rr.com>,
"Riain Barton" <riain@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
It was not razed by any JEWS!!!
I didn't say Jews did it, did I? But it was destroyed by religious nuts
who thought that their book-o-GAWD! was the only one that anyone needed,
just as Ms. Hogan said.
Do you have a problem with this connection?
"*nemo*" <nemo0037@earthlink.dieSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:nemo0037-5009D7.20272612062004@news02.east.earthlink.net...
| In article <40cb85fb$1_7@corp.newsgroups.com>,
| "Mary Hogan" <hoogy@zoominternet.net> wrote:
|
| > All the argument I need is Torah....I just need a virginillian or so
more
| > years to master a few Parshas.
|
| The library at Alexandria was torched because the collection of
| knowledge and philosophy withing its walls was nowhere near as valuable
| to a bunch of religious nuts as their one "holy book." Centuries of work
| and learning up in smoke, thanks to thinking like this.
|
| --
| Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
| Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!)
| BAAWA Knight! - One of those warm Southern Knights, y'all!
| Charter member, SMASH!!
| http://home.earthlink.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html
| Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
| Quotemeister since March 2002
--
Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!)
BAAWA Knight! - One of those warm Southern Knights, y'all!
Charter member, SMASH!!
http://home.earthlink.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
Quotemeister since March 2002
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Colin Day" |
|
| Title: Re: Put away the World Book...I'm going to study Torah!! |
12 Jun 2004 08:50:14 PM |
|
|
Mary Hogan wrote:
All the argument I need is Torah....I just need a virginillian or so more
years to master a few Parshas.
Vigintillion, as in 10 to the sixty-third power (American vigintillion).
I suspect you won't live that long.
Colin Day aa #1500
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mary Hogan" |
|
| Title: Re: Put away the World Book...I'm going to study Torah!! |
12 Jun 2004 10:27:26 PM |
|
|
I'll be young at that age. I believe God. I believe in the Olam Haba...the
world to come.
"Colin Day" <cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:40CBB8C2.2080005@sc.rr.com...
Mary Hogan wrote:
All the argument I need is Torah....I just need a virginillian or so
more
years to master a few Parshas.
Vigintillion, as in 10 to the sixty-third power (American vigintillion).
I suspect you won't live that long.
Colin Day aa #1500
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
.
|
|
|
| User: "Colin Day" |
|
| Title: Re: Put away the World Book...I'm going to study Torah!! |
13 Jun 2004 08:13:35 PM |
|
|
Mary Hogan wrote:
I'll be young at that age. I believe God. I believe in the Olam Haba...the
world to come.
Right. . .
Colin Day aa #1500
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Riain Barton" |
|
| Title: Re: Put away the World Book...I'm going to study Torah!! |
12 Jun 2004 10:26:46 PM |
|
|
Then be ready NOT to see jesus!!
"Mary Hogan" <hoogy@zoominternet.net> wrote in message
news:40cbca0c$1_7@corp.newsgroups.com...
| I'll be young at that age. I believe God. I believe in the Olam
Haba...the
| world to come.
|
|
| "Colin Day" <cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote in message
| news:40CBB8C2.2080005@sc.rr.com...
| > Mary Hogan wrote:
| > > All the argument I need is Torah....I just need a virginillian or so
| more
| > > years to master a few Parshas.
| >
| > Vigintillion, as in 10 to the sixty-third power (American vigintillion).
| > I suspect you won't live that long.
| >
| > Colin Day aa #1500
| >
|
|
|
|
| -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
| http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
| -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "LP" |
|
| Title: Re: Put away the World Book...I'm going to study Torah!! |
13 Jun 2004 02:04:40 AM |
|
|
On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 18:37:04 -0400, "Mary Hogan"
<hoogy@zoominternet.net> wrote:
All the argument I need is Torah....I just need a virginillian or so more
years to master a few Parshas.
Re: Put away the World Book...I'm going to study Torah!!
What you have demonstrated you mean is,
"Put away my brain, I am going to study the Torah!"
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mary Hogan" |
|
| Title: Re: Put away the World Book...I'm going to study Torah!! |
13 Jun 2004 06:43:38 AM |
|
|
That's right...because the human brain is warped. Think about it... Do you
know how to enjoy your life?
"LP" <whirl_pool@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5junc0lu2usomls9442densa47qqq1hj3e@4ax.com...
On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 18:37:04 -0400, "Mary Hogan"
<hoogy@zoominternet.net> wrote:
All the argument I need is Torah....I just need a virginillian or so more
years to master a few Parshas.
Re: Put away the World Book...I'm going to study Torah!!
What you have demonstrated you mean is,
"Put away my brain, I am going to study the Torah!"
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
.
|
|
|
| User: "TonyaK9" |
|
| Title: Re: Put away the World Book...I'm going to study Torah!! |
13 Jun 2004 10:44:47 AM |
|
|
"Mary Hogan" <hoogy@zoominternet.net> wrote in message
news:40cc3e57$1_7@corp.newsgroups.com...
That's right...because the human brain is warped. Think about it... Do
you
know how to enjoy your life?
Mary, we understand you have those woodstock roots, but ...
you should really stop soliciting here on soc.culture.jewish...
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Steve Knight" |
|
| Title: Re: Put away the World Book...I'm going to study Torah!! |
12 Jun 2004 09:27:59 PM |
|
|
On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 18:37:04 -0400, "Mary Hogan"
<hoogy@zoominternet.net> wrote:
All the argument I need is Torah....I just need a virginillian or so more
years to master a few Parshas.
You need a new ***** to master a new vibrator?
Don't we all!
Warlord Steve
BAAWA
www.sonic.net/~wooly
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Riain Barton" |
|
| Title: Re: Put away the World Book...I'm going to study Torah!! |
12 Jun 2004 09:28:50 PM |
|
|
You need a lot more than that!!!
"Mary Hogan" <hoogy@zoominternet.net> wrote in message
news:40cb85fb$1_7@corp.newsgroups.com...
| All the argument I need is Torah....I just need a virginillian or so more
| years to master a few Parshas.
|
|
| "William" <telige@mail.clara.fl.com> wrote in message
| news:40cb74cf.3971852@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk...
| > On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 16:50:21 -0400, "Mary Hogan"
| > <hoogy@zoominternet.net> wrote:
| >
| > >And yes I did mean...according to the design that God initiated, for
| without
| > >this Brainiac design.... there would be no order.
| > >
| > >What I meant was you....are not thinking...atheistically.... You need
| God
| > >just as much as I need God!!
| >
| > You are not making any sense.
| >
| > William
|
|
|
|
| -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
| http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
| -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
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