| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Seraphim" |
| Date: |
02 Aug 2003 06:36:37 AM |
| Object: |
Re: YANI: Pragmatist conduct |
"Boudewijn Waijers" <bwaijers@tiscali.REMOVETHIS.nl> wrote in news:bgfvsk
$fi9$2@reader1.tiscali.nl:
Martin Crisp, cunningly disguised as wrote:
On Fri, 1 Aug 2003 21:25:50 +1000, James Kozianski wrote
(in message <3f2a4e43@news.rivernet.com.au>):
By definition all atheists claim that god does not exist.
False. I know of only a few atheists who would make such an idiotic
claim.
Obviously, not everyone defines atheist in the same way.
Well, my trusty dictionary defines athesism as "The disbelief or denial of
the existence of a God, or supreme intelligent Being." The same dictionary
defines "disbelief" as "A state of the mind in which one is fully
persuaded that an opinion, assertion, or doctrine is not true". Therefor I
would agree that by the definition that an atheist would claim that a god
does not exist.
I would therefor suggest that the "Athiests" that Martin knows are infact
not Atheists by the literal definition of the word. I would rather suggest
that they probably would fall under the catagory of "Agnostic".
.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: YANI: Pragmatist conduct |
02 Aug 2003 10:13:02 PM |
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On 2 Aug 2003 11:36:37 GMT, Seraphim <gme6@cornell.edu> posted in
alt.atheism:
Well, my trusty dictionary defines athesism as "The disbelief or denial of
the existence of a God, or supreme intelligent Being." The same dictionary
defines "disbelief" as "A state of the mind in which one is fully
persuaded that an opinion, assertion, or doctrine is not true". Therefor I
would agree that by the definition that an atheist would claim that a god
does not exist.
Your trusty dictionary is wrong. The "a" prefix mans "without the
property of the root" - or, in this case, without theism. (Theism
means "belief in a supreme being".) Nothing in "atheism" about belief
in there being no god.
I would therefor suggest that the "Athiests" that Martin knows are infact
not Atheists by the literal definition of the word. I would rather suggest
that they probably would fall under the catagory of "Agnostic".
Atheism deals with belief - agnosticism deals with knowledge. Lack of
belief is atheism. That most theists and atheists are agnostics is
beside the point.
--
"A stupid man's report of what a clever man says is never accurate because he
unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand."
-- Bertrand Russell.
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
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| User: "Apostate" |
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| Title: Re: YANI: Pragmatist conduct |
02 Aug 2003 03:40:42 PM |
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On 2 Aug 2003 11:36:37 GMT, Seraphim <gme6@cornell.edu> wrote in alt.atheism:
"Boudewijn Waijers" <bwaijers@tiscali.REMOVETHIS.nl> wrote in news:bgfvsk
$fi9$2@reader1.tiscali.nl:
Martin Crisp, cunningly disguised as wrote:
On Fri, 1 Aug 2003 21:25:50 +1000, James Kozianski wrote
(in message <3f2a4e43@news.rivernet.com.au>):
By definition all atheists claim that god does not exist.
False. I know of only a few atheists who would make such an idiotic
claim.
Obviously, not everyone defines atheist in the same way.
Well, my trusty dictionary defines athesism as "The disbelief or denial of
the existence of a God, or supreme intelligent Being." The same dictionary
defines "disbelief" as "A state of the mind in which one is fully
persuaded that an opinion, assertion, or doctrine is not true". Therefor I
would agree that by the definition that an atheist would claim that a god
does not exist.
I would therefor suggest that the "Athiests" that Martin knows are infact
not Atheists by the literal definition of the word. I would rather suggest
that they probably would fall under the catagory of "Agnostic".
If you have a dictionary that gives only a single account of the definition of "atheist",
you should use that book exclusively as back-up toilet paper, and get yourself a
more useful dictionary. My guess is that you've definition-mined, passing by
alternative definitions that didn't much suit your purpose in this discussion.
Happens here constantly. Doesn't begin to make it honest argument.
You can't define your way to 'proving' that people's positions are other than
they actually are, or that they aren't what they are.
If I had a nickel for every 'trusty dictionary' that was held up as a Doomsday Weapon,
only to be shown to contain additional definitions disagreeing with the poster's
thrust, I'd be rich.
--
/Apostate
atheist #1931 I've found it!
BAAWA Knife AND SMASHer
EAC Supernumerary Deputy Director, Department of Redundancy Department
plonked by vernon; NEW! IMPROVED! plonked by Lani_girl
I doubt, therefore I might be.
.
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| User: "Martin Crisp" |
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| Title: Re: YANI: Pragmatist conduct |
02 Aug 2003 10:53:16 PM |
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On Sat, 2 Aug 2003 21:36:37 +1000, Seraphim wrote
(in message <Xns93CB4D6DE8E7Fgme6cornelledu@132.236.56.8>):
"Boudewijn Waijers" <bwaijers@tiscali.REMOVETHIS.nl> wrote in news:bgfvsk
$fi9$2@reader1.tiscali.nl:
Martin Crisp, cunningly disguised as wrote:
On Fri, 1 Aug 2003 21:25:50 +1000, James Kozianski wrote
(in message <3f2a4e43@news.rivernet.com.au>):
By definition all atheists claim that god does not exist.
False. I know of only a few atheists who would make such an idiotic
claim.
Obviously, not everyone defines atheist in the same way.
Well, my trusty dictionary defines athesism as "The disbelief or
denial of the existence of a God, or supreme intelligent Being."
The same dictionary defines "disbelief" as "A state of the mind
in which one is fully persuaded that an opinion, assertion, or
doctrine is not true". Therefor I would agree that by the
definition that an atheist would claim that a god does not exist.
I would therefor suggest that the "Athiests" that Martin knows
are infact not Atheists by the literal definition of the word. I
would rather suggest that they probably would fall under the
catagory of "Agnostic".
And, as I have repeatedly tried to point out in the thread this
originated in (in rec.games.roguelike.nethack*), the categories
'atheist' and 'agnostic' are not mutually exclusive, they are about
(at least) partially disparate concepts: belief and knowledge.
Also, I'm not sure if Seraphim realised s/he was posting to aa,
rather than rgrn. [So don't be too surprised if this is a 'post and
run']
*a low-volume (compared to aa) group, I would ask that people don't
xpost this thread back there, as that would flood rgrn.
Have Fun
Martin
--
aa #1792
Almost always SMASHed
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