| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Budikka" |
| Date: |
07 Aug 2004 07:21:30 AM |
| Object: |
Record Prison Numbers in Religious US |
In a nation where nearly nine in every ten people think "under god"
should remain in the Pledge:
http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/06/29/poll.pledge/
We find that the prison and parole population is at a record high:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/07/26/corrections.population.ap/index.html
This ought to overthrow the ***** that fundamentalists try to
spread that atheism = lack of morality and crime. By their "logic" it
seems quite clear that the more strongly a nation obsesses with
mythical gods, the higher the crime rate becomes.
Why wouldn't it? When you embrace a "morality" that allows you to do
whatever you want as long as you believe it to be sanctioned by your
own personal god, where is the basis for real morality? When you live
under a dictatorship which threatens you with eternal suffering if you
do not meet the demands of this dictator, and the demands are so vague
as to permit you to do whatever you want, why wouldn't you do whatever
you want regardless of the consequences?
Budikka
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| User: "erikc" |
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| Title: Re: Record Prison Numbers in Religious US |
07 Aug 2004 12:05:36 PM |
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On 7 Aug 2004 05:21:30 -0700, (Budikka) wrote:
In a nation where nearly nine in every ten people think "under god"
should remain in the Pledge:
http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/06/29/poll.pledge/
We find that the prison and parole population is at a record high:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/07/26/corrections.population.ap/index.html
This ought to overthrow the ***** that fundamentalists try to
spread that atheism = lack of morality and crime. By their "logic" it
seems quite clear that the more strongly a nation obsesses with
mythical gods, the higher the crime rate becomes.
Why wouldn't it? When you embrace a "morality" that allows you to do
whatever you want as long as you believe it to be sanctioned by your
own personal god, where is the basis for real morality? When you live
under a dictatorship which threatens you with eternal suffering if you
do not meet the demands of this dictator, and the demands are so vague
as to permit you to do whatever you want, why wouldn't you do whatever
you want regardless of the consequences?
Budikka
More to the point, according to some versions of this story, the vast majority
of people are going to suffer eternally -anyway-, so why should it matter what
someone does?
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Record Prison Numbers in Religious US |
07 Aug 2004 09:33:49 AM |
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On 7 Aug 2004 05:21:30 -0700, (Budikka) wrote:
In a nation where nearly nine in every ten people think "under god"
should remain in the Pledge:
http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/06/29/poll.pledge/
We find that the prison and parole population is at a record high:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/07/26/corrections.population.ap/index.html
This ought to overthrow the ***** that fundamentalists try to
spread that atheism = lack of morality and crime.
Where did this come from? The truth is that atheism rejects the existence of God while,
in many cases, actually responds positively to God in their lives without even giving it
second thought. All good comes from God, and is very true in atheists as much as anybody.
Why wouldn't it? When you embrace a "morality" that allows you to do
whatever you want as long as you believe it to be sanctioned by your
own personal god, where is the basis for real morality? When you live
under a dictatorship which threatens you with eternal suffering if you
do not meet the demands of this dictator, and the demands are so vague
as to permit you to do whatever you want, why wouldn't you do whatever
you want regardless of the consequences?
Actually no such demand is made. we are called to repent of our sinfulness, clean up our
acts, and treat others as God loves us.
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| User: "Kermit" |
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| Title: Re: Record Prison Numbers in Religious US |
07 Aug 2004 02:45:29 PM |
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duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message news:<osp9h0t6p8e5rleoo6s2mda0o76n4r23rh@4ax.com>...
On 7 Aug 2004 05:21:30 -0700, (Budikka) wrote:
In a nation where nearly nine in every ten people think "under god"
should remain in the Pledge:
http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/06/29/poll.pledge/
We find that the prison and parole population is at a record high:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/07/26/corrections.population.ap/index.html
This ought to overthrow the ***** that fundamentalists try to
spread that atheism = lack of morality and crime.
Where did this come from? The truth is that atheism rejects the existence of God while,
We only see no reason to think of any god as real. There is noone
there to "Reject", Duke. do you reject Zeus?
in many cases, actually responds positively to God in their lives without even
giving it second thought.
Ummm... really? If thought that outside positive forces came from
sugarsnaps and butterflies.
Do you have any evidence for this assertion of yours?
All good comes from God, and is very true in atheists as much as anybody.
Sez you. Nearly a billion people think all good comes from Brahma.
Why wouldn't it? When you embrace a "morality" that allows you to do
whatever you want as long as you believe it to be sanctioned by your
own personal god, where is the basis for real morality? When you live
under a dictatorship which threatens you with eternal suffering if you
do not meet the demands of this dictator, and the demands are so vague
as to permit you to do whatever you want, why wouldn't you do whatever
you want regardless of the consequences?
Actually no such demand is made. we are called to repent of our sinfulness, clean up our
acts, and treat others as God loves us.
Sounds like demands to me. In fact, the demands are impossible: all
you have to do is believe something by an act of will. Great. Believe
the sky is green, Duke, and I will give you a chest full of pirate
treasure.
If I see persuasive evidence for soemthing, I believe it; if I don't
see evidence, no amount of torture will make me believe (no matter
what I say). Winston Smith notwithstanding.
Kermit
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Record Prison Numbers in Religious US |
09 Aug 2004 06:12:36 AM |
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On 7 Aug 2004 12:45:29 -0700, (Kermit) wrote:
Where did this come from? The truth is that atheism rejects the existence of God while,
We only see no reason to think of any god as real. There is noone
there to "Reject", Duke. do you reject Zeus?
Uh, nooooooo - atheists flatout reject the existence of God, not merely use lack of proof
to question his non-existence.
in many cases, actually responds positively to God in their lives without even
giving it second thought.
Ummm... really? If thought that outside positive forces came from
sugarsnaps and butterflies.
No - all goodness comes from God and a positive response to his love - and you so respond
without even giving him credit for it.
Do you have any evidence for this assertion of yours?
Plenty.
Actually no such demand is made. we are called to repent of our sinfulness, clean up our
acts, and treat others as God loves us.
Sounds like demands to me. In fact, the demands are impossible: all
you have to do is believe something by an act of will. Great. Believe
the sky is green, Duke, and I will give you a chest full of pirate
treasure.
What's so hard about loving one another as God loves you?
If I see persuasive evidence for soemthing, I believe it; if I don't
see evidence, no amount of torture will make me believe (no matter
what I say). Winston Smith notwithstanding.
Your funeral.
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| User: "commutator" |
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| Title: Re: Record Prison Numbers in Religious US |
09 Aug 2004 05:30:36 PM |
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duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message news:<cqmeh09mgvqouakr45drqtq0jjcd1829u1@4ax.com>...
On 7 Aug 2004 12:45:29 -0700, (Kermit) wrote:
Where did this come from? The truth is that atheism rejects the existence of God while,
We only see no reason to think of any god as real. There is noone
there to "Reject", Duke. do you reject Zeus?
Uh, nooooooo - atheists flatout reject the existence of God, not merely use lack of proof
to question his non-existence.
in many cases, actually responds positively to God in their lives without even
giving it second thought.
Ummm... really? If thought that outside positive forces came from
sugarsnaps and butterflies.
No - all goodness comes from God and a positive response to his love - and you so respond
without even giving him credit for it.
Do you have any evidence for this assertion of yours?
Plenty.
Actually no such demand is made. we are called to repent of our sinfulness, clean up our
acts, and treat others as God loves us.
Sounds like demands to me. In fact, the demands are impossible: all
you have to do is believe something by an act of will. Great. Believe
the sky is green, Duke, and I will give you a chest full of pirate
treasure.
What's so hard about loving one another as God loves you?
If I see persuasive evidence for soemthing, I believe it; if I don't
see evidence, no amount of torture will make me believe (no matter
what I say). Winston Smith notwithstanding.
Your funeral.
Why do you bother posting here duke? It's a DISCUSSION group and you
never have anything to bring to the table except the same tired tripe.
Atheists reject the notion of God based on lack of proof. We do not
assert there is proof to show there is no God nor do we need to the
burden lies on the one who has the assertion, that would be you the
theist. Thus, if you have some real points/evidence let's see them
otherwise don't waste all our time.
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| User: "Kermit" |
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| Title: Re: Record Prison Numbers in Religious US |
09 Aug 2004 05:48:57 PM |
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duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message news:<cqmeh09mgvqouakr45drqtq0jjcd1829u1@4ax.com>...
On 7 Aug 2004 12:45:29 -0700, (Kermit) wrote:
Where did this come from? The truth is that atheism rejects the existence of God while,
We only see no reason to think of any god as real. There is noone
there to "Reject", Duke. do you reject Zeus?
Uh, nooooooo - atheists flatout reject the existence of God, not merely use lack of proof
to question his non-existence.
Is your "faith" so uncertain that you even have to lie about this?
Most atheists simply do not believe. this is different from asserting
that there are no gods.
in many cases, actually responds positively to God in their lives without even
giving it second thought.
Ummm... really? If thought that outside positive forces came from
sugarsnaps and butterflies.
No - all goodness comes from God and a positive response to his love - and you > so respond without even giving him credit for it.
Actually, I think you are responding to your medications. It's easy to
simply make claims, Duke.
Do you have any evidence for this assertion of yours?
Plenty.
[...]
?
I'm waiting.
Actually no such demand is made. we are called to repent of our sinfulness, clean up our
acts, and treat others as God loves us.
Sounds like demands to me. In fact, the demands are impossible: all
you have to do is believe something by an act of will. Great. Believe
the sky is green, Duke, and I will give you a chest full of pirate
treasure.
What's so hard about loving one another as God loves you?
If you believe in the same bible my Grandadday believed in, tehn all
you have to do is believe. Except you can't believe *anything by an
act of will. I don't hate people, Duke, altho folks who tell me how I
think *do annoy me to no end.
If I see persuasive evidence for soemthing, I believe it; if I don't
see evidence, no amount of torture will make me believe (no matter
what I say). Winston Smith notwithstanding.
Your funeral.
Ah!
No, my life in clarity. *Your life in self-deception. Eternal life is
*not an option. Facing life with courage and clarity *is.
I would get on stage and sing "I'm a Little Teapot" if I thought it
would give me another 10,000 years of life. But it won't, will it?
Kermit
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: Record Prison Numbers in Religious US |
09 Aug 2004 02:05:13 PM |
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duke wrote:
Do you have any evidence for this assertion of yours?
Plenty.
But he has never posted more than inane opinions.
<snip>
What's so hard about loving one another as God loves you?
The part about not forgiving someone after they die?
The part about demanding they love me back or damning them for eternity?
The part about not doing anything to save somebodyt when I can.
If I could stop a million kids a year from dying in a rather horribler
manner I would. Your god leets that many die each year from just malaria?
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Record Prison Numbers in Religious US |
09 Aug 2004 05:27:37 PM |
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On Mon, 09 Aug 2004 19:05:13 GMT, "Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
What's so hard about loving one another as God loves you?
The part about not forgiving someone after they die?
But you can no longer apologize then or make reparations , so it would be one way.
The part about demanding they love me back or damning them for eternity?
Where does that come in?
The part about not doing anything to save somebodyt when I can.
That's what he wants of you, and they are saved because they are the instrument needed to
drag that love out of you.
If I could stop a million kids a year from dying in a rather horribler
manner I would. Your god leets that many die each year from just malaria?
And man is the cause, not God. And that's what he's asking you to overcome.
It's really very simple and so, so easy.
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: Record Prison Numbers in Religious US |
09 Aug 2004 07:27:21 PM |
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duke wrote:
On Mon, 09 Aug 2004 19:05:13 GMT, "Mike Painter"
<mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
What's so hard about loving one another as God loves you?
The part about not forgiving someone after they die?
But you can no longer apologize then or make reparations , so it
would be one way.
Your comment would imply that people never have contact with each other
after death.
Your "one way" comment implies that they would not be aware of my actions.
Not part of the conversation and certinly your god would be able to do what
he says we should do.
The part about demanding they love me back or damning them for
eternity?
Where does that come in?
The part about not doing anything to save somebodyt when I can.
That's what he wants of you, and they are saved because they are the
instrument needed to drag that love out of you.
If I could stop a million kids a year from dying in a rather
horribler manner I would. Your god leets that many die each year
from just malaria?
And man is the cause, not God. And that's what he's asking you to
overcome.
Again a loving creature would act to save somebody no matter who was at
fault.
It's really very simple and so, so easy.
Yes. four words. There are no gods.
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: Record Prison Numbers in Religious US |
07 Aug 2004 11:56:28 AM |
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duke wrote:
On 7 Aug 2004 05:21:30 -0700, (Budikka) wrote:
In a nation where nearly nine in every ten people think "under god"
should remain in the Pledge:
http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/06/29/poll.pledge/
We find that the prison and parole population is at a record high:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/07/26/corrections.population.ap/index.html
This ought to overthrow the ***** that fundamentalists try to
spread that atheism = lack of morality and crime.
Where did this come from? The truth is that atheism rejects the existence of God while,
in many cases, actually responds positively to God in their lives without even giving it
second thought. All good comes from God, and is very true in atheists as much as anybody.
There is no 'God'.
Why wouldn't it? When you embrace a "morality" that allows you to do
whatever you want as long as you believe it to be sanctioned by your
own personal god, where is the basis for real morality? When you live
under a dictatorship which threatens you with eternal suffering if you
do not meet the demands of this dictator, and the demands are so vague
as to permit you to do whatever you want, why wouldn't you do whatever
you want regardless of the consequences?
Actually no such demand is made. we are called to repent of our sinfulness, clean up our
acts, and treat others as God loves us.
How many deaths is the born-again fundamentalist Bush responsible for ?
--
Jez
"The condition of alienation, of being asleep, of being unconscious,
of being out of one's mind, is the condition of the normal man. Society
highly values its normal man.It educates children to lose themselves
and to become absurd,and thus to be normal. Normal men have killed
perhaps 100,000,000 of their fellow normal men in the last fifty years."
R.D. Laing
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Record Prison Numbers in Religious US |
07 Aug 2004 12:53:39 PM |
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On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 17:56:28 +0100, Jez <iced_spear@NOSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote:
Where did this come from? The truth is that atheism rejects the existence of God while,
in many cases, actually responds positively to God in their lives without even giving it
second thought. All good comes from God, and is very true in atheists as much as anybody.
There is no 'God'.
Yep, he's the one you're committing spiritual suicide by rejecting.
But........that's your fully free choice.
Actually no such demand is made. we are called to repent of our sinfulness, clean up our
acts, and treat others as God loves us.
How many deaths is the born-again fundamentalist Bush responsible for ?
None that I know of.
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: Record Prison Numbers in Religious US |
07 Aug 2004 01:59:46 PM |
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duke wrote:
On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 17:56:28 +0100, Jez <iced_spear@NOSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote:
Where did this come from? The truth is that atheism rejects the existence of God while,
in many cases, actually responds positively to God in their lives without even giving it
second thought. All good comes from God, and is very true in atheists as much as anybody.
There is no 'God'.
Yep, he's the one you're committing spiritual suicide by rejecting.
But........that's your fully free choice.
Yip free to choose between delusion or reality, you still choose delusion.
Actually no such demand is made. we are called to repent of our sinfulness, clean up our
acts, and treat others as God loves us.
How many deaths is the born-again fundamentalist Bush responsible for ?
None that I know of.
But thats because your blind.
Nearly 1,000 US soldiers...maybe 30,000 Iraq civilians....
--
Jez
"The condition of alienation, of being asleep, of being unconscious,
of being out of one's mind, is the condition of the normal man. Society
highly values its normal man.It educates children to lose themselves
and to become absurd,and thus to be normal. Normal men have killed
perhaps 100,000,000 of their fellow normal men in the last fifty years."
R.D. Laing
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Record Prison Numbers in Religious US |
09 Aug 2004 06:08:48 AM |
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On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 19:59:46 +0100, Jez <iced_spear@NOSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote:
There is no 'God'.
Yep, he's the one you're committing spiritual suicide by rejecting.
But........that's your fully free choice.
Yip free to choose between delusion or reality, you still choose delusion.
53% of the current world population believe in God. 2.5% are atheists. That says we are
26 times more realistic than you.
Now one should believe like you....................why?
None that I know of.
But thats because your blind.
Nearly 1,000 US soldiers...maybe 30,000 Iraq civilians....
He didn't kill any of them.
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| User: "Hypatia Kosh" |
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| Title: Re: Record Prison Numbers in Religious US |
09 Aug 2004 05:22:16 PM |
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duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message news:<kkmeh05g9qnos8iliv4jnglkhoti6o1jp0@4ax.com>...
On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 19:59:46 +0100, Jez <iced_spear@NOSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote:
There is no 'God'.
Yep, he's the one you're committing spiritual suicide by rejecting.
But........that's your fully free choice.
Yip free to choose between delusion or reality, you still choose delusion.
53% of the current world population believe in God. 2.5% are atheists. That says we are
26 times more realistic than you.
Argument to popularity. Devastating, just devastating.
I hear lead pipes used to be popular too. Ubiquitous, even.
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: Record Prison Numbers in Religious US |
09 Aug 2004 02:01:44 PM |
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duke wrote:
On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 19:59:46 +0100, Jez
<iced_spear@NOSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote:
There is no 'God'.
Yep, he's the one you're committing spiritual suicide by rejecting.
But........that's your fully free choice.
Yip free to choose between delusion or reality, you still choose
delusion.
53% of the current world population believe in God. 2.5% are
atheists. That says we are 26 times more realistic than you.
Now one should believe like you....................why?
As usual Earl picks teh numbers he likes or makes thm up.
Islam and Judism believe in one god and there are over a billion of them
Christianity, for the most part believes in at least three gods. There are
about 2 billion of them
China and Russia have shown what skipping a generation or two can do to a
person. The current estimates are that as many as two billion in those
countries are atheists.
Even if this is only a billion this puts atheism at the top of the heap if
you consider that probably no single sect matches that number. Earl for
example belongs to some sect that grew out of the charismatic movement in
the RCC several years ago. Much of what he claims is true Catholicism would
condemn him in the mainstream of the RCC.
I'd ask him to defend himself with more than silly comments by bringing his
priest on line to support him, but the little man will not do that.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Record Prison Numbers in Religious US |
09 Aug 2004 05:54:49 PM |
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On Mon, 09 Aug 2004 19:01:44 GMT, "Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
53% of the current world population believe in God. 2.5% are
atheists. That says we are 26 times more realistic than you.
Now one should believe like you....................why?
As usual Earl picks teh numbers he likes or makes thm up.
Islam and Judism believe in one god and there are over a billion of them
Christianity, for the most part believes in at least three gods.
How many times must you be corrected on this one item, mikey.
The Christian God, the same God to the Jews and the Muslims, is one God, not three. The
one God presented himself to mankind as 3 different persons, but only one God.
And between the 3 faiths, we make up 53% of the current world population.
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: Record Prison Numbers in Religious US |
09 Aug 2004 07:35:55 PM |
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duke wrote:
On Mon, 09 Aug 2004 19:01:44 GMT, "Mike Painter"
<mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
53% of the current world population believe in God. 2.5% are
atheists. That says we are 26 times more realistic than you.
Now one should believe like you....................why?
As usual Earl picks teh numbers he likes or makes thm up.
Islam and Judism believe in one god and there are over a billion of
them Christianity, for the most part believes in at least three gods.
How many times must you be corrected on this one item, mikey.
The Christian God, the same God to the Jews and the Muslims, is one
God, not three. The one God presented himself to mankind as 3
different persons, but only one God.
You will first have to correct Islam and Judism. They are the ones who deny
the christian god. You have been given links that say this specifically many
times.
And between the 3 faiths, we make up 53% of the current world
population.
And atheists make up close to 1/3rd.
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| User: "New10." |
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| Title: Re: Record Prison Numbers in Religious US |
07 Aug 2004 09:17:21 PM |
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This ought to overthrow the ***** that fundamentalists try to
spread that atheism = lack of morality and crime.
RELIGION AND CRIME
Edited By New10.
Studies have shown that the prison population is mostly Christian. I have a
book Religion and Crime by frank Swancara, attorney. There were two studies
done one in 1931 and again in 1936. The prison population was broken down to
the religion of each convict.( it couldn't be done today)
"The fifth annual report of the New York State Commission of
Correction contains the following table showing the religious affiliation or
preference of prisoners in three different penitentiaries during the year
ending June 30, 1932"
Roman Catholic 102 males
Greek Catholic 2
Protestent 250
Hebrew 10
None or Miscellaneous 5
During a period of two years in a Pennsylvania penitentiary
there were 772 Protestants prisoners, 828 Catholic, 11 Jews, and 302
indifferent and others. Agnostics and Atheists were too few to tabulate. As
to the nature and numbers of crimes committed by various religious groups,
in that institution, Prof Root has given the following figures.
Protestant Catholic
Indifferent Jewish
Robbery 268 252
112 4
Larceny 105 62
41 3
Burglary 42 22
22 1
Embezzelment 10 7
0 0
Forgery 16 15
5 0
Homicide 177 282
56 0
Rape 71 84
24 0
Sodomy 12 8
15 0
Felonious assault 57 57
28 0
Pandering 2 4
0 0
Arson 9 8
0 0
Then there is further brake down to race and other factors too numerous for
this paper
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