| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"BubbaGump BubbaGump@localhost" |
| Date: |
02 Jun 2007 03:17:51 AM |
| Object: |
Religion and addiction |
One of my relatives has a gambling problem and is in much debt because
of it. She's also very religious (Christian). Despite my advice that
casinos are only in business because in the long term people lose
money to them, she refuses to gain self control and either limit or
stop her gambling. She thinks that "God" is helping her get better
control of and will eventually help her to eliminate her addiction. I
tried to tell her that I also used to exhibit addictive behavior in a
certain part of my life, that praying to "God" never helped me to
stop, and that what finally brought it under control was my own will
to put reasonable limits on my behavior.
I couldn't help but notice the common theme in religion and gambling:
false hope
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| User: "Midwinter" |
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| Title: Re: Religion and addiction |
02 Jun 2007 05:19:44 AM |
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BubbaGump <BubbaGump@localhost> wrote :
I couldn't help but notice the common theme in religion and gambling:
false hope
At the risk of sounding like a stuck record, can I again point out the
difference between 'Christianity' and 'religion'?
I am religious, but have no false hope.
--
Midwinter
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: Religion and addiction |
02 Jun 2007 12:51:14 PM |
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One fine day in alt.atheism, Midwinter <midwinter_m@hotmail.co.uk> bloodied
us up with this:
BubbaGump <BubbaGump@localhost> wrote :
I couldn't help but notice the common theme in religion and gambling:
false hope
At the risk of sounding like a stuck record, can I again point out the
difference between 'Christianity' and 'religion'?
I am religious, but have no false hope.
You have a false hope that you have no false hope.
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Convicted by Earthquack. Plonked by Fester.
Member Duke Spanking Club.
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| User: "Midwinter" |
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| Title: Re: Religion and addiction |
03 Jun 2007 04:19:24 AM |
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Uncle Vic <address@withheld.com> wrote :
I am religious, but have no false hope.
You have a false hope that you have no false hope.
Knowledge is not 'hope'. Unless you can tell me what the false hope is
that it is my supposed false hope that I have not got, then your statement
here is meaningless.
--
Midwinter
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: Religion and addiction |
03 Jun 2007 01:25:42 PM |
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One fine day in alt.atheism, Midwinter <midwinter_m@hotmail.co.uk>
bloodied us up with this:
Uncle Vic <address@withheld.com> wrote :
I am religious, but have no false hope.
You have a false hope that you have no false hope.
Knowledge is not 'hope'. Unless you can tell me what the false hope
is that it is my supposed false hope that I have not got, then your
statement here is meaningless.
Please explain how your "knowledge" of god is not hope.
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Convicted by Earthquack. Plonked by Fester.
Member Duke Spanking Club.
.
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| User: "Midwinter" |
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| Title: Re: Religion and addiction |
04 Jun 2007 03:42:54 AM |
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Uncle Vic <address@withheld.com> wrote :
I am religious, but have no false hope.
You have a false hope that you have no false hope.
Knowledge is not 'hope'. Unless you can tell me what the false hope
is that it is my supposed false hope that I have not got, then your
statement here is meaningless.
Please explain how your "knowledge" of god is not hope.
Vic, try to calm down a little and read what's actually written, rather
than jumping off the deep end and making up what you think I ought to have
said.
I said I was religious, but that that religion offers me no false hope. I
did not say I was Christian. Now, you told me that I had false hope that I
had no false hope, so what I expect from you is a definition of the false
hope that I have false hope that I have not got.
--
Midwinter
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| User: "Eric42" |
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| Title: Re: Religion and addiction |
02 Jun 2007 11:38:33 AM |
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BubbaGump <BubbaGump@localhost> wrote:
One of my relatives has a gambling problem and is in much debt because
of it. She's also very religious (Christian).
I would recommend pointing her to:
http://www.lcms.org/graphics/assets/media/CTCR/gambling.pdf
She may find it useful in correcting her false beliefs in this matter.
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| User: "BubbaGump BubbaGump@localhost" |
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| Title: Re: Religion and addiction |
02 Jun 2007 04:24:24 PM |
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On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 16:38:33 GMT, (Eric42)
wrote:
BubbaGump <BubbaGump@localhost> wrote:
One of my relatives has a gambling problem and is in much debt because
of it. She's also very religious (Christian).
I would recommend pointing her to:
http://www.lcms.org/graphics/assets/media/CTCR/gambling.pdf
She may find it useful in correcting her false beliefs in this matter.
That paper looks religious. You just want to replace one set of false
beliefs with another, and that was my point. It doesn't solve the
problem. It only masks it, like using deodorant instead of taking a
shower.
Bad behavior (gluttony, greed, lust) has inherently bad consequences.
There's no need to use juvenile fairy tales to explain why it's bad.
"gluttony" meaning doing too much of anything
(contrasted with "enjoyment")
"greed" and "lust" meaning wanting anything too much
(contrasted with "ambition" and "interest")
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| User: "Eric42" |
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| Title: Re: Religion and addiction |
03 Jun 2007 06:27:08 AM |
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BubbaGump <BubbaGump@localhost> wrote:
On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 16:38:33 GMT, (Eric42)
wrote:
BubbaGump <BubbaGump@localhost> wrote:
One of my relatives has a gambling problem and is in much debt because
of it. She's also very religious (Christian).
I would recommend pointing her to:
http://www.lcms.org/graphics/assets/media/CTCR/gambling.pdf
She may find it useful in correcting her false beliefs in this matter.
That paper looks religious. You just want to replace one set of false
beliefs with another
Replace? No. For, as you stated, she is already a Christian.
I only wanted to offer information concerning her problem to which she
would likely listen.
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| User: "BubbaGump BubbaGump@localhost" |
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| Title: Re: Religion and addiction |
03 Jun 2007 02:02:11 PM |
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On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 11:27:08 GMT, (Eric42)
wrote:
BubbaGump <BubbaGump@localhost> wrote:
On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 16:38:33 GMT, (Eric42)
wrote:
BubbaGump <BubbaGump@localhost> wrote:
One of my relatives has a gambling problem and is in much debt because
of it. She's also very religious (Christian).
I would recommend pointing her to:
http://www.lcms.org/graphics/assets/media/CTCR/gambling.pdf
She may find it useful in correcting her false beliefs in this matter.
That paper looks religious. You just want to replace one set of false
beliefs with another
Replace? No. For, as you stated, she is already a Christian.
I only wanted to offer information concerning her problem to which she
would likely listen.
You're splitting hairs over the word "replace", but take it to mean
"substitute". You're substituting one set of false beliefs for
another, like replacing one addiction with another. I don't want to
encourage her to believe in a set of false beliefs for fear it will
only cause more problems and give her an excuse to keep making the
same mistakes.
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| User: "Eric42" |
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| Title: Re: Religion and addiction |
03 Jun 2007 03:24:57 PM |
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BubbaGump <BubbaGump@localhost> wrote:
On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 11:27:08 GMT, (Eric42)
wrote:
BubbaGump <BubbaGump@localhost> wrote:
On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 16:38:33 GMT, (Eric42)
wrote:
BubbaGump <BubbaGump@localhost> wrote:
One of my relatives has a gambling problem and is in much debt because
of it. She's also very religious (Christian).
I would recommend pointing her to:
http://www.lcms.org/graphics/assets/media/CTCR/gambling.pdf
She may find it useful in correcting her false beliefs in this matter.
That paper looks religious. You just want to replace one set of false
beliefs with another
Replace? No. For, as you stated, she is already a Christian.
I only wanted to offer information concerning her problem to which she
would likely listen.
You're splitting hairs over the word "replace",
No, I'm not. I stated exactly what I meant as forthrightly as I could.
but take it to mean> "substitute".
It's not even 'substitute' with respect to a Christian in this matter.
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| User: "BubbaGump BubbaGump@localhost" |
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| Title: Re: Religion and addiction |
03 Jun 2007 08:34:25 PM |
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On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 20:24:57 GMT, (Eric42)
wrote:
You're splitting hairs over the word "replace",
No, I'm not. I stated exactly what I meant as forthrightly as I could.
but take it to mean> "substitute".
It's not even 'substitute' with respect to a Christian in this matter.
Now you're just typing cryptic nonsense. That's to be expected.
You're one of those insane religious types.
Gambling and Christianity have the same problem. In isolated
incidents, they present the illusion of success. In the grand scheme,
they fail. By "Christianity", I mean all the supernatural mumbo jumbo
garbage, not the abstract and secular philosophical principles.
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| User: "Ben Kaufman" |
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| Title: Re: Religion and addiction |
03 Jun 2007 08:16:16 AM |
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On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 17:24:24 -0400, BubbaGump <BubbaGump@localhost> wrote:
On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 16:38:33 GMT, (Eric42)
wrote:
BubbaGump <BubbaGump@localhost> wrote:
One of my relatives has a gambling problem and is in much debt because
of it. She's also very religious (Christian).
I would recommend pointing her to:
http://www.lcms.org/graphics/assets/media/CTCR/gambling.pdf
She may find it useful in correcting her false beliefs in this matter.
That paper looks religious. You just want to replace one set of false
beliefs with another, and that was my point. It doesn't solve the
problem. It only masks it, like using deodorant instead of taking a
shower.
Bad behavior (gluttony, greed, lust) has inherently bad consequences.
There's no need to use juvenile fairy tales to explain why it's bad.
"gluttony" meaning doing too much of anything
(contrasted with "enjoyment")
"greed" and "lust" meaning wanting anything too much
(contrasted with "ambition" and "interest")
You could point out to her that "God" stood by as hundreds of millions have
perished from disease, disaster and genocide. So (depending upon which option
you choose to select:)
a) The chances are slim that God is going to help her out of her gambling
problem.
b) God shmod, it's just a smoke screen to get you off her *****.
Ben
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| User: "BubbaGump BubbaGump@localhost" |
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| Title: Re: Religion and addiction |
03 Jun 2007 02:07:14 PM |
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On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 09:16:16 -0400, Ben Kaufman
<spaXm-mXe-anXd-paXy-5000-dollars@pobox.com> wrote:
On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 17:24:24 -0400, BubbaGump <BubbaGump@localhost> wrote:
On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 16:38:33 GMT, (Eric42)
wrote:
BubbaGump <BubbaGump@localhost> wrote:
One of my relatives has a gambling problem and is in much debt because
of it. She's also very religious (Christian).
I would recommend pointing her to:
http://www.lcms.org/graphics/assets/media/CTCR/gambling.pdf
She may find it useful in correcting her false beliefs in this matter.
That paper looks religious. You just want to replace one set of false
beliefs with another, and that was my point. It doesn't solve the
problem. It only masks it, like using deodorant instead of taking a
shower.
Bad behavior (gluttony, greed, lust) has inherently bad consequences.
There's no need to use juvenile fairy tales to explain why it's bad.
"gluttony" meaning doing too much of anything
(contrasted with "enjoyment")
"greed" and "lust" meaning wanting anything too much
(contrasted with "ambition" and "interest")
You could point out to her that "God" stood by as hundreds of millions have
perished from disease, disaster and genocide. So (depending upon which option
you choose to select:)
a) The chances are slim that God is going to help her out of her gambling
problem.
b) God shmod, it's just a smoke screen to get you off her *****.
I've said things like this. I've also tried to give an example in my
own life where praying to "Jesus" never helped me and what finally
helped was moderation and using my own self-control to keep track of
and gradually decrease the frequency of my behavior. Really I think
she's a bit insane, a prerequisite to being deeply religious, and it's
difficult to reason with an insane person. I know because I use to
suffer from such insanity. Nothing anyone could tell me would
convince me that Jesus wasn't as great as I thought he was.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Religion and addiction |
02 Jun 2007 09:18:10 PM |
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On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 04:17:51 -0400, BubbaGump <BubbaGump@localhost>
wrote:
I couldn't help but notice the common theme in religion and gambling:
false hope
It's possible to win a bet - it's not possible to live forever. Slight
difference in favor of gambling.
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| User: "BubbaGump BubbaGump@localhost" |
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| Title: Re: Religion and addiction |
03 Jun 2007 02:33:57 PM |
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On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 22:18:10 -0400, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>
wrote:
It's possible to win a bet - it's not possible to live forever. Slight
difference in favor of gambling.
You know, this pisses me off, because this is the same idiotic and
flawed logic she uses to keep gambling. Back in the early days,
before she became ashamed of herself, she actually used to excitedly
and happily tell me about the times she would return from gambling
after having "won". The problem is anything she won she would
eventually lose, and the compulsion to keep playing to try to win
again would result in her losing even more. The only way to win at
gambling is to not play.
Yes, it's possible to win a single bet much in the same way it's
possible to see "God" in a single bout of good fortune, but in the
grand scheme there is no way to win.
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| User: "BubbaGump BubbaGump@localhost" |
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| Title: Re: Religion and addiction |
03 Jun 2007 01:58:40 PM |
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On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 22:18:10 -0400, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>
wrote:
On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 04:17:51 -0400, BubbaGump <BubbaGump@localhost>
wrote:
I couldn't help but notice the common theme in religion and gambling:
false hope
It's possible to win a bet - it's not possible to live forever. Slight
difference in favor of gambling.
There's no favor. It's not possible to win a large number of bets
over a long period of time, similar to how it's not possible for
religion to solve every problem.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Religion and addiction |
03 Jun 2007 09:52:55 PM |
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On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 14:58:40 -0400, BubbaGump <BubbaGump@localhost>
wrote:
On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 22:18:10 -0400, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>
wrote:
On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 04:17:51 -0400, BubbaGump <BubbaGump@localhost>
wrote:
I couldn't help but notice the common theme in religion and gambling:
false hope
It's possible to win a bet - it's not possible to live forever. Slight
difference in favor of gambling.
There's no favor. It's not possible to win a large number of bets
over a long period of time, similar to how it's not possible for
religion to solve every problem.
Or *any* problem other than lack of religion.
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| User: "BubbaGump BubbaGump@localhost" |
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| Title: Re: Religion and addiction |
04 Jun 2007 06:35:57 AM |
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On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 22:52:55 -0400, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>
wrote:
On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 14:58:40 -0400, BubbaGump <BubbaGump@localhost>
wrote:
On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 22:18:10 -0400, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>
wrote:
On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 04:17:51 -0400, BubbaGump <BubbaGump@localhost>
wrote:
I couldn't help but notice the common theme in religion and gambling:
false hope
It's possible to win a bet - it's not possible to live forever. Slight
difference in favor of gambling.
There's no favor. It's not possible to win a large number of bets
over a long period of time, similar to how it's not possible for
religion to solve every problem.
Or *any* problem other than lack of religion.
That's a bit of an exaggeration. Religions have embedded within them
many useful rules like not killing, stealing, or screwing other
people. It's the belief in the supernatural that's a problem.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Religion and addiction |
04 Jun 2007 07:49:26 AM |
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On Mon, 04 Jun 2007 07:35:57 -0400, BubbaGump <BubbaGump@localhost>
wrote:
On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 22:52:55 -0400, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>
wrote:
On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 14:58:40 -0400, BubbaGump <BubbaGump@localhost>
wrote:
There's no favor. It's not possible to win a large number of bets
over a long period of time, similar to how it's not possible for
religion to solve every problem.
Or *any* problem other than lack of religion.
That's a bit of an exaggeration. Religions have embedded within them
many useful rules like not killing, stealing, or screwing other
people.
Those rules were GOTTEN by religion, not CREATED by religion. We'd
have the rules whether we had religion or not. (The golden rule was
civil, not religious, until religion co-opted it.)
It's the belief in the supernatural that's a problem.
It's the belief that the hierarchy can decide what's best for you.
It's the belief that those who don't share your beliefs are, somehow,
less worthy of consideration. It's the belief that you're somehow
superior to others. It's ... most religions. Just believing that you
should treat others well isn't religion, it's morality, which some
people confuse with religion.
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| User: "Ben Kaufman" |
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| Title: Re: Religion and addiction |
02 Jun 2007 06:26:35 AM |
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On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 04:17:51 -0400, BubbaGump <BubbaGump@localhost> wrote:
One of my relatives has a gambling problem and is in much debt because
of it. She's also very religious (Christian). Despite my advice that
casinos are only in business because in the long term people lose
money to them, she refuses to gain self control and either limit or
stop her gambling. She thinks that "God" is helping her get better
control of and will eventually help her to eliminate her addiction. I
tried to tell her that I also used to exhibit addictive behavior in a
certain part of my life, that praying to "God" never helped me to
stop, and that what finally brought it under control was my own will
to put reasonable limits on my behavior.
I couldn't help but notice the common theme in religion and gambling:
false hope
Did you try suggesting to her that perhaps God is helping the casinos because
they donate some of their profits to charity? <g>
Ben
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