Religion is such a crock of...



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "E. L."
Date: 03 Nov 2003 11:09:45 PM
Object: Religion is such a crock of...
*****! Tonight I watched at TV program on Court TV titled Forensic
Files. The show details how it is necessary to rely on solid evidence
to convict. Tonight's first half hour was about Valerian Trifa, a
Romanian who became Archbishop of the Romanian Orthodox Church until
1984.
The lies started when he came to America in 1950 and stated that he had
been abused by the Nazis and had spent time in Buchenwald and Dachau.
In time he worked his way up the ladder in the church to Archbishop.
Some of those who had really suffered under the Nazis and found refuge
in America recognized him as being a Fascist leader in the Iron Guard, a
Nazi group who were claimed to have abused jews and others, including
killing them. All of this was denied by Valerian.
Modern papers that Valerian had written were available as well as Nazi
documents supposedly written by him. They were given to a handwriting
expert who came to the conclusion that they had been written by the same
person: Valerian. But this was not good enough and they couldn't
proceed with the case against him.
However, two things happened that sunk Valerian. A postcard was written
by Valerian back in Germany and was being held in the German Archives.
It was suspected that the postcard had a fingerprint on it but it being
a historial document was not allowed out of the Archives. They didn't
want it to suffer under invasive handling.
Then a modern miracle came to the rescue: the laser. The Germans agreed
to allow it's importation to America, with a German and an American
escort, as long as the laser was the only instrument used. The orange
laser and orange goggles brought the fingerprint to light (a little pun
there) and it was photographed and compared to a fingerprint taken in
1950 when Valerian arrived in the U.S. They matched! In 1982 he was
through.
The ex-Archbishop was kicked out of the country but no one wanted him
until Portugal accepted him in 1984 and he died there in 1987.
Long intro to the reason for my post but the bottom line is here was
this ex-Nazi who made life miserable for thousands and may have been
responsible for the deaths of many. Yet he becomes a highly-placed
religious figure in America, thousands flock to him, including high
political figures, I'm sure. He affected many changes in peoples' lives
and other areas. A lot of people genuflected in front of him, thinking
him close to their god/Jesus and believing in him to control their
lives. To me that's religion in a nutshell. Research him on google.
What say you?
.

User: "Dr. DuFonet"

Title: Re: Religion is such a crock of... 04 Nov 2003 10:43:09 AM
"E. L." <nyceddie@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:23191-3FA73499-8@storefull-2378.public.lawson.webtv.net...

*****! Tonight I watched at TV program on Court TV titled Forensic
Files. The show details how it is necessary to rely on solid evidence
to convict. Tonight's first half hour was about Valerian Trifa, a
Romanian who became Archbishop of the Romanian Orthodox Church until
1984.

The lies started when he came to America in 1950 and stated that he had
been abused by the Nazis and had spent time in Buchenwald and Dachau.
In time he worked his way up the ladder in the church to Archbishop.

Some of those who had really suffered under the Nazis and found refuge
in America recognized him as being a Fascist leader in the Iron Guard, a
Nazi group who were claimed to have abused jews and others, including
killing them. All of this was denied by Valerian.

Modern papers that Valerian had written were available as well as Nazi
documents supposedly written by him. They were given to a handwriting
expert who came to the conclusion that they had been written by the same
person: Valerian. But this was not good enough and they couldn't
proceed with the case against him.

However, two things happened that sunk Valerian. A postcard was written
by Valerian back in Germany and was being held in the German Archives.
It was suspected that the postcard had a fingerprint on it but it being
a historial document was not allowed out of the Archives. They didn't
want it to suffer under invasive handling.

Then a modern miracle came to the rescue: the laser. The Germans agreed
to allow it's importation to America, with a German and an American
escort, as long as the laser was the only instrument used. The orange
laser and orange goggles brought the fingerprint to light (a little pun
there) and it was photographed and compared to a fingerprint taken in
1950 when Valerian arrived in the U.S. They matched! In 1982 he was
through.

The ex-Archbishop was kicked out of the country but no one wanted him
until Portugal accepted him in 1984 and he died there in 1987.

Long intro to the reason for my post but the bottom line is here was
this ex-Nazi who made life miserable for thousands and may have been
responsible for the deaths of many. Yet he becomes a highly-placed
religious figure in America, thousands flock to him, including high
political figures, I'm sure. He affected many changes in peoples' lives
and other areas. A lot of people genuflected in front of him, thinking
him close to their god/Jesus and believing in him to control their
lives. To me that's religion in a nutshell. Research him on google.

What say you?

There were other people who helped the Nazis and came to america claiming to
be victims. Some got their wrists tattooed with numbers.
.

User: "johac"

Title: Re: Religion is such a crock of... 04 Nov 2003 01:01:38 AM
In article <23191-3FA73499-8@storefull-2378.public.lawson.webtv.net>,
(E. L.) wrote:

*****! Tonight I watched at TV program on Court TV titled Forensic
Files. The show details how it is necessary to rely on solid evidence
to convict. Tonight's first half hour was about Valerian Trifa, a
Romanian who became Archbishop of the Romanian Orthodox Church until
1984.

The lies started when he came to America in 1950 and stated that he had
been abused by the Nazis and had spent time in Buchenwald and Dachau.
In time he worked his way up the ladder in the church to Archbishop.

Some of those who had really suffered under the Nazis and found refuge
in America recognized him as being a Fascist leader in the Iron Guard, a
Nazi group who were claimed to have abused jews and others, including
killing them. All of this was denied by Valerian.

Modern papers that Valerian had written were available as well as Nazi
documents supposedly written by him. They were given to a handwriting
expert who came to the conclusion that they had been written by the same
person: Valerian. But this was not good enough and they couldn't
proceed with the case against him.

However, two things happened that sunk Valerian. A postcard was written
by Valerian back in Germany and was being held in the German Archives.
It was suspected that the postcard had a fingerprint on it but it being
a historial document was not allowed out of the Archives. They didn't
want it to suffer under invasive handling.

Then a modern miracle came to the rescue: the laser. The Germans agreed
to allow it's importation to America, with a German and an American
escort, as long as the laser was the only instrument used. The orange
laser and orange goggles brought the fingerprint to light (a little pun
there) and it was photographed and compared to a fingerprint taken in
1950 when Valerian arrived in the U.S. They matched! In 1982 he was
through.

The ex-Archbishop was kicked out of the country but no one wanted him
until Portugal accepted him in 1984 and he died there in 1987.

Long intro to the reason for my post but the bottom line is here was
this ex-Nazi who made life miserable for thousands and may have been
responsible for the deaths of many. Yet he becomes a highly-placed
religious figure in America, thousands flock to him, including high
political figures, I'm sure. He affected many changes in peoples' lives
and other areas. A lot of people genuflected in front of him, thinking
him close to their god/Jesus and believing in him to control their
lives. To me that's religion in a nutshell. Research him on google.

What say you?

It used to be said that "patriotism was the last refuge of the
scoundrel". Perhaps the last refuge is now religion. Even better, wrap
youself in the flag and hide behind the cross, and you might even get
elected president.
--
John Hachmann, aa #1782

-Question authority. Now more than ever.-
.
User: "Liz"

Title: AQotM Nomination Was (Re: Religion is such a crock of...) 04 Nov 2003 06:53:58 AM
johac <jhachm@remove.ixpres.com> wrote in message news:<jhachm-084B6F.23013803112003@central.giganews.com>...
I'd like to nominate the follow by johac for AQotM contest:

It used to be said that "patriotism was the last refuge of the
scoundrel". Perhaps the last refuge is now religion. Even better, wrap
youself in the flag and hide behind the cross, and you might even get
elected president.

A second, anyone?
Liz #658
.
User: "Denis Loubet"

Title: Re: AQotM Nomination Was (Re: Religion is such a crock of...) 04 Nov 2003 11:09:06 AM
"Liz" <mtstack@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:af375798.0311040453.54a7a352@posting.google.com...

johac <jhachm@remove.ixpres.com> wrote in message

news:<jhachm-084B6F.23013803112003@central.giganews.com>...


I'd like to nominate the follow by johac for AQotM contest:

It used to be said that "patriotism was the last refuge of the
scoundrel". Perhaps the last refuge is now religion. Even better, wrap
youself in the flag and hide behind the cross, and you might even get
elected president.



A second, anyone?

I second!
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
.

User: "Geoff Offermann"

Title: Re: AQotM Nomination Was (Re: Religion is such a crock of...) 04 Nov 2003 10:58:01 AM
"Liz" <mtstack@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:af375798.0311040453.54a7a352@posting.google.com...

johac <jhachm@remove.ixpres.com> wrote in message

news:<jhachm-084B6F.23013803112003@central.giganews.com>...


I'd like to nominate the follow by johac for AQotM contest:

It used to be said that "patriotism was the last refuge of the
scoundrel". Perhaps the last refuge is now religion. Even better, wrap
youself in the flag and hide behind the cross, and you might even get
elected president.


A second, anyone?

Well, it's ok, but I will second at let the voters decide at the end of the
month.
.
User: "*nemo*"

Title: Re: AQotM Nomination Was (Re: Religion is such a crock of...) 05 Nov 2003 03:59:04 AM
In article <tUQpb.77032$275.206241@attbi_s53>,
"Geoff Offermann" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote:

"Liz" <mtstack@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:af375798.0311040453.54a7a352@posting.google.com...

johac <jhachm@remove.ixpres.com> wrote in message

news:<jhachm-084B6F.23013803112003@central.giganews.com>...


I'd like to nominate the follow by johac for AQotM contest:

It used to be said that "patriotism was the last refuge of the
scoundrel". Perhaps the last refuge is now religion. Even better, wrap
youself in the flag and hide behind the cross, and you might even get
elected president.


A second, anyone?


Well, it's ok, but I will second at let the voters decide at the end of the
month.


Recorded.
--
Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!)
BAAWA Knight! - One of those warm Southern Knights, y'all!
Charter member, SMASH!!
http://home.earthlink.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
Quotemeister since March 2002
.


User: "jwk"

Title: Re: AQotM Nomination Was (Re: Religion is such a crock of...) 04 Nov 2003 11:47:05 AM
(Liz) wrote in message news:<af375798.0311040453.54a7a352@posting.google.com>...

johac <jhachm@remove.ixpres.com> wrote in message news:<jhachm-084B6F.23013803112003@central.giganews.com>...

I'd like to nominate the follow by johac for AQotM contest:

It used to be said that "patriotism was the last refuge of the
scoundrel". Perhaps the last refuge is now religion. Even better, wrap
youself in the flag and hide behind the cross, and you might even get
elected president.



A second, anyone?


Liz #658

Aye. Seconded.
jwk
.

User: "Michelle Malkin"

Title: Re: AQotM Nomination Was (Re: Religion is such a crock of...) 05 Nov 2003 01:38:08 AM
On 4 Nov 2003 04:53:58 -0800,
(Liz) wrote:

johac <jhachm@remove.ixpres.com> wrote in message news:<jhachm-084B6F.23013803112003@central.giganews.com>...

I'd like to nominate the follow by johac for AQotM contest:

It used to be said that "patriotism was the last refuge of the
scoundrel". Perhaps the last refuge is now religion. Even better, wrap
youself in the flag and hide behind the cross, and you might even get
elected president.



A second, anyone?

I second.



Liz #658

.



User: "Sean C"

Title: Re: Religion is such a crock of... 04 Nov 2003 02:51:03 AM
In article <23191-3FA73499-8@storefull-2378.public.lawson.webtv.net>,
E. L. <nyceddie@webtv.net> wrote:

*****! Tonight I watched at TV program on Court TV titled Forensic
Files. The show details how it is necessary to rely on solid evidence
to convict. Tonight's first half hour was about Valerian Trifa, a
Romanian who became Archbishop of the Romanian Orthodox Church until
1984.

The lies started when he came to America in 1950 and stated that he had
been abused by the Nazis and had spent time in Buchenwald and Dachau.
In time he worked his way up the ladder in the church to Archbishop.

You might want to compare this to Pope John Paul II beatifying (next to
last step on the way to sainthood) Croatian Archbishop Alojzije
Stepinac, a vocal supporter of the bloodthirsty Ustasha, the fascist
party running the Independant State of Croatia, a puppet state of the
Nazis responsible for the horrific murder of over 600,000 Serbs, and
some 80,000 Jews and Gypsies. Many of the perpetrators of this genocide
were Catholic priests or led by Catholic priests, including the
infamous Father Miroslav Filipovic-Majstorovic, who ran the
concentration camp at Jasenovac, the third largest in WWII. These
priests were by and large members of the Ustasha's military chaplaincy,
and were directly accountable to Stepinac. The Pope also beatified Ivan
Merz, the head of the "Croatian Eagles," the Ustasha's version of the
Hitlerjugend.
After the war, the Vatican helped many ex-Ustasha (and Nazis) flee from
justice through the "Ratline," a network established by the CIA and the
Vatican for this purpose.
More on the Ustasha:
http://www.pavelicpapers.com/
and on Majstorovic:
http://www.tutorgig.com/encyclopedia/getdefn.jsp?query=Miroslav_Filipovi
c-Majstorovic
Sean C
----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
.

User: "Sean C"

Title: Re: Religion is such a crock of... 04 Nov 2003 02:56:06 AM
In article <23191-3FA73499-8@storefull-2378.public.lawson.webtv.net>,
E. L. <nyceddie@webtv.net> wrote:

*****! Tonight I watched at TV program on Court TV titled Forensic
Files. The show details how it is necessary to rely on solid evidence
to convict. Tonight's first half hour was about Valerian Trifa, a
Romanian who became Archbishop of the Romanian Orthodox Church until
1984.

The lies started when he came to America in 1950 and stated that he had
been abused by the Nazis and had spent time in Buchenwald and Dachau.
In time he worked his way up the ladder in the church to Archbishop.

You might want to compare this to Pope John Paul II beatifying (next to
last step on the way to sainthood) Croatian Archbishop Alojzije
Stepinac, a vocal supporter of the bloodthirsty Ustasha, the fascist
party running the Independant State of Croatia, a puppet state of the
Nazis responsible for the horrific murder of over 600,000 Serbs, and
some 80,000 Jews and Gypsies. Many of the perpetrators of this genocide
were Catholic priests or led by Catholic priests, including the
infamous Father Miroslav Filipovic-Majstorovic, who ran the
concentration camp at Jasenovac, the third largest in WWII. These
priests were by and large members of the Ustasha's military chaplaincy,
and were directly accountable to Stepinac. The Pope also beatified Ivan
Merz, the head of the "Croatian Eagles," the Ustasha's version of the
Hitlerjugend.
After the war, the Vatican helped many ex-Ustasha (and Nazis) flee from
justice through the "Ratline," a network established by the CIA and the
Vatican for this purpose.
More on the Ustasha:
http://www.pavelicpapers.com/
and on Majstorovic:
http://www.tutorgig.com/encyclopedia/getdefn.jsp?query=Miroslav_Filipovi
c-Majstorovic
Sean C
----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
.


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