| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Levy Oates" |
| Date: |
11 Nov 2003 06:39:06 AM |
| Object: |
Religion, The Army, and Rememberance |
The following article was posted in the Yahoo group "secular_newsline". I
thought some others might want to read this too, so I've posted it here with the
permission of the original author, who goes under the posting name of "Anti
Christ". Read and learn...
At this time of year, it's become almost a national obsession to "remember"
those who were killed during all the various conflicts since WW1. As a
former soldier of long standing, I don't have too much of a problem with
that. I lost several of my friends and comrades during my Army service and,
now and again, it's good to think back on the times we had in a kind of
nostalgic and wistful way. I often wonder how my own life might be different
if they were still around. And I miss them a great deal.
What I DO have a problem with is a bunch of religionists "giving thanks" for
our "fallen heroes". It's just so superficial and insincere (just like
everything else those poncin' vicars do). They strike me as though all they
want to do is show to themselves just how pious and thoughtful they are by
chanting their superstitious prayers and singing their bloody stupid songs.
I think it's so demeaning to the life and achievements of my mates to have
all those sanctimonious pillocks bleating on about "their sacrifice". They
didn't "sacrifice" themselves....they were bloody well killed by nasty
people with guns and bombs. Sacrifice was the last thing they were thinking
about. Quite the opposite in fact. The over-riding urge was How To Stay
Alive And Get Back Home.
I can't think of any of my mates who were religious. In truth, most of them
were not only non-religious, they were down-right irreligious and despised
all the soppy, namby-pamby, "aren't I holy" gunk. They'd do anything they
could think of to get out of the mandatory Army church services (another one
of my hobby horses!!).
But the thing which REALLY got my goat was at the end of the BBC remembrance
program. They blended the Last Post into one of their god songs. I was
almost sick!!! It's bad enough that these sickoids use the fact of people's
deaths to further their own influence, but to change an Army bugle call into
a bloody god-song was the absolute pits. We all really had a gut-full of the
god-squad and their unctuousness* while we were serving. Now they're dead,
they should just leave 'em alone and stop defiling their memory.
I just wish the Armed Services could be entirely disestablished from the
bloody church of bloody england, and let squadies and their families
remember their own in their own way.
Regards,
Once again, a thoroughly honked off AX.
* Full of unction. Marked by a smug, ingratiating and false earnestness or
spirituality.
---------
Archdeacom Levy Oates
On behalf of the Prophet Eric Peabody (pbuh)
Basingstoke, England
http://www.angelfire.com/alt/bumblism/
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| User: "Alun Harford" |
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| Title: Re: Religion, The Army, and Rememberance |
11 Nov 2003 09:20:59 AM |
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"Levy Oates" <levy_oates@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:qll1rvg7vmgvveabmn77pva1e06opklf14@4ax.com...
The following article was posted in the Yahoo group "secular_newsline". I
thought some others might want to read this too, so I've posted it here
with the
permission of the original author, who goes under the posting name of
"Anti
Christ". Read and learn...
At this time of year, it's become almost a national obsession to
"remember"
those who were killed during all the various conflicts since WW1. As a
former soldier of long standing, I don't have too much of a problem with
that. I lost several of my friends and comrades during my Army service
and,
now and again, it's good to think back on the times we had in a kind of
nostalgic and wistful way. I often wonder how my own life might be
different
if they were still around. And I miss them a great deal.
What I DO have a problem with is a bunch of religionists "giving thanks"
for
our "fallen heroes". It's just so superficial and insincere (just like
everything else those poncin' vicars do). They strike me as though all
they
want to do is show to themselves just how pious and thoughtful they are by
chanting their superstitious prayers and singing their bloody stupid
songs.
I think it's so demeaning to the life and achievements of my mates to have
all those sanctimonious pillocks bleating on about "their sacrifice". They
didn't "sacrifice" themselves....they were bloody well killed by nasty
people with guns and bombs.
Owww. Diddums.
They went to war as professional murderers.
Other professional murderers killed them.
One down, plenty more to go.
I just wish the Armed Services could be entirely disestablished from the
bloody church of bloody england, and let squadies and their families
remember their own in their own way.
At least the authoritarians are kept in one place.
Alun Harford
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| User: "Levy Oates" |
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| Title: Re: Religion, The Army, and Rememberance |
11 Nov 2003 09:31:28 AM |
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On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 15:20:59 -0000, "Alun Harford"
<alunharford@yahoo.com> wrote:
I think it's so demeaning to the life and achievements of my mates to have
all those sanctimonious pillocks bleating on about "their sacrifice". They
didn't "sacrifice" themselves....they were bloody well killed by nasty
people with guns and bombs.
Owww. Diddums.
They went to war as professional murderers.
Other professional murderers killed them.
One down, plenty more to go.
Whether they were conscripted or fought as volunteers, I think those
who fought against fascism in WWII deserve a little more credit than
you seem to imply. Presumably you would have welcomed those "other
professional murderers" with open arms?
---------
Archdeacom Levy Oates
On behalf of the Prophet Eric Peabody (pbuh)
Basingstoke, England
http://www.angelfire.com/alt/bumblism/
.
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| User: "Alun Harford" |
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| Title: Re: Religion, The Army, and Rememberance |
11 Nov 2003 10:47:37 AM |
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"Levy Oates" <levy_oates@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:erv1rvoq8613se8b15173comt8uefiqj55@4ax.com...
On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 15:20:59 -0000, "Alun Harford"
<alunharford@yahoo.com> wrote:
I think it's so demeaning to the life and achievements of my mates to
have
all those sanctimonious pillocks bleating on about "their sacrifice".
They
didn't "sacrifice" themselves....they were bloody well killed by nasty
people with guns and bombs.
Owww. Diddums.
They went to war as professional murderers.
Other professional murderers killed them.
One down, plenty more to go.
Whether they were conscripted or fought as volunteers, I think those
who fought against fascism in WWII deserve a little more credit than
you seem to imply. Presumably you would have welcomed those "other
professional murderers" with open arms?
I would welcome no set of professional killers with open arms.
The reality is that you cannot stop a political movement or any large group
by force. All that happens is that the oppressed become the oppressors, and
we all go around again. And we spend millions of lives doing it.
After WW1, we decided to oppress and try to elimate the Germans. Then the
Germans tried to eliminate the Jews. They failed so now everybody switches
sides and Israel tries to eliminate the Palistinians. They will fail and the
Palistinians will go and oppress somebody else.
Somebody has to find a sane way of doing this. War is clearly not an option
that works.
Alun Harford
.
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| User: "Kermit" |
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| Title: Re: Religion, The Army, and Rememberance |
11 Nov 2003 10:37:36 PM |
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"Alun Harford" <alunharford@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<bor3r6$8id$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>...
"Levy Oates" <levy_oates@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:erv1rvoq8613se8b15173comt8uefiqj55@4ax.com...
On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 15:20:59 -0000, "Alun Harford"
<alunharford@yahoo.com> wrote:
I think it's so demeaning to the life and achievements of my mates to
have
all those sanctimonious pillocks bleating on about "their sacrifice".
They
didn't "sacrifice" themselves....they were bloody well killed by nasty
people with guns and bombs.
Owww. Diddums.
They went to war as professional murderers.
Other professional murderers killed them.
One down, plenty more to go.
Whether they were conscripted or fought as volunteers, I think those
who fought against fascism in WWII deserve a little more credit than
you seem to imply. Presumably you would have welcomed those "other
professional murderers" with open arms?
I would welcome no set of professional killers with open arms.
The reality is that you cannot stop a political movement or any large group
by force. All that happens is that the oppressed become the oppressors, and
we all go around again. And we spend millions of lives doing it.
Levy Oates and his mates bloody well did stop the Nazis with force,
and I'm grateful for them.
After WW1, we decided to oppress and try to elimate the Germans. Then the
Germans tried to eliminate the Jews. They failed so now everybody switches
sides and Israel tries to eliminate the Palistinians. They will fail and the
Palistinians will go and oppress somebody else.
If you're saying that power-hungry politicians are behind half our
troubles, you're right. (Power-hungry religious fanatics are behind
the other half).
But you are naive beyond all reason if you think violence is *never
the answer. When a mugger comes for you, just offer him a group hug;
I'm sure he'll see the light.
Somebody has to find a sane way of doing this. War is clearly not an option
that works.
Surrendering to the Nazis would not have been better. Did Western
Europe and the US contribute to Germany's and Japan's cantankerous
attitude in WWII? Absolutely? But it wasn't the soldiers who made
those decisions, and once a generation inherits the karma of previous
generations of politicians, there is often no obvious or easy way out.
Does society make muggers? Sure, pretty much all of them. But if one
comes for me, I'll break his arm, or his neck. *I didn't make him, and
I'm doing no favor to more civilized people (even very confused ones,
like you) by letting him kill me and then move on to the next victim.
Is my president's decision to go to war in Iraq stupid and
self-serving? I think so. But it was not the soldiers who were
consulted.
Alun Harford
--- Kermit
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| User: "Alun Harford" |
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| Title: Re: Religion, The Army, and Rememberance |
12 Nov 2003 02:29:48 AM |
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"Kermit" <freehand_THX1138@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1575bfdc.0311112037.604c30fc@posting.google.com...
"Alun Harford" <alunharford@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<bor3r6$8id$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>...
"Levy Oates" <levy_oates@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:erv1rvoq8613se8b15173comt8uefiqj55@4ax.com...
On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 15:20:59 -0000, "Alun Harford"
<alunharford@yahoo.com> wrote:
I think it's so demeaning to the life and achievements of my mates
to
have
all those sanctimonious pillocks bleating on about "their
sacrifice".
They
didn't "sacrifice" themselves....they were bloody well killed by
nasty
people with guns and bombs.
Owww. Diddums.
They went to war as professional murderers.
Other professional murderers killed them.
One down, plenty more to go.
Whether they were conscripted or fought as volunteers, I think those
who fought against fascism in WWII deserve a little more credit than
you seem to imply. Presumably you would have welcomed those "other
professional murderers" with open arms?
I would welcome no set of professional killers with open arms.
The reality is that you cannot stop a political movement or any large
group
by force. All that happens is that the oppressed become the oppressors,
and
we all go around again. And we spend millions of lives doing it.
Levy Oates and his mates bloody well did stop the Nazis with force,
and I'm grateful for them.
They're back.
After WW1, we decided to oppress and try to elimate the Germans. Then
the
Germans tried to eliminate the Jews. They failed so now everybody
switches
sides and Israel tries to eliminate the Palistinians. They will fail and
the
Palistinians will go and oppress somebody else.
If you're saying that power-hungry politicians are behind half our
troubles, you're right. (Power-hungry religious fanatics are behind
the other half).
But you are naive beyond all reason if you think violence is *never
the answer. When a mugger comes for you, just offer him a group hug;
I'm sure he'll see the light.
I don't.
I don't think *professional* murder is right.
Somebody has to find a sane way of doing this. War is clearly not an
option
that works.
Surrendering to the Nazis would not have been better.
I didn't say that. I oppose professional soldiers, not unpaid armed
resistance to kill professional soldiers.
Is my president's decision to go to war in Iraq stupid and
self-serving? I think so. But it was not the soldiers who were
consulted.
They made the choice to go there.
Alun Harford
.
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: Religion, The Army, and Rememberance |
12 Nov 2003 10:39:18 AM |
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Lo, many moons past, on Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:29:48 -0000, a stranger
called by some "Alun Harford" <alunharford@yahoo.com> came forth and
told this tale in alt.atheism
Surrendering to the Nazis would not have been better.
I didn't say that. I oppose professional soldiers, not unpaid armed
resistance to kill professional soldiers.
LOL!
OK, can you strip, rebuild, load and fire with accuracy a M-60 light
machine gun? Know how to work as a member of an infantry squad in
urban terrain? Can you identify the weak spots on a BTR-70?
How do you hunt tanks? How fast can you don a protective mask? Treat
a sucking chest wound? Clear a minefield? Zero a rifle? Throw a
hand grenade? What is a danger point, and how do you cross it? What
is the proper lead distance when firing at aircraft with small arms?
Firing at a helicopter?
These are things I learned in Basic Training. As a buck private in
the US Army, I could do all of these in a professional manner. The
protective mask? From case to cleared and sealed in nine seconds.
Partisans without outside support from professionals get steamrolled
and wiped out by professionals.
You may not like us, but you need us.
Go read this.
http://www.web-books.com/Classics/Poetry/Anthology/Kipling/Tommy.htm
Hating the "professional murderers" is always fashionable. Until the
other side's troops approach your home town. Then we're heroes.
--
Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Ezekiel 13:20 "Wherefore thus saith the
Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows"
.
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| User: "Alun Harford" |
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| Title: Re: Religion, The Army, and Rememberance |
12 Nov 2003 05:42:04 PM |
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"Douglas Berry" <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message
news:hun4rv8ndqipsl2htjgcvau588c5oob9la@4ax.com...
Lo, many moons past, on Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:29:48 -0000, a stranger
called by some "Alun Harford" <alunharford@yahoo.com> came forth and
told this tale in alt.atheism
Surrendering to the Nazis would not have been better.
I didn't say that. I oppose professional soldiers, not unpaid armed
resistance to kill professional soldiers.
LOL!
OK, can you strip, rebuild, load and fire with accuracy a M-60 light
machine gun?
Nope.
But if I needed to, I'm sure I could be taught
Know how to work as a member of an infantry squad in
urban terrain? Can you identify the weak spots on a BTR-70?
You don't. You're infantry.
How do you hunt tanks?
You run quickly and blow up their crews later.
How fast can you don a protective mask?
I can learn.
Treat
a sucking chest wound?
Apply basic 1st aid and take them to a hospital.
Clear a minefield?
Stay away from them
Throw a
hand grenade?
Hand grenades are a poor weapon in such a situation (likely urban). Unless
you want to kill civilians.
What
is the proper lead distance when firing at aircraft with small arms?
Firing at a helicopter?
You take cover and bomb their bases, kill their troops etc.
Hating the "professional murderers" is always fashionable. Until the
other side's troops approach your home town. Then we're heroes.
I don't tend to follow fashions.
I don't do conventional warfare. Nor do I have any intention of ever doing
it.
Alun Harford
.
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: Religion, The Army, and Rememberance |
12 Nov 2003 09:21:11 PM |
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Lo, many moons past, on Wed, 12 Nov 2003 23:42:04 -0000, a stranger
called by some "Alun Harford" <alunharford@yahoo.com> came forth and
told this tale in alt.atheism
"Douglas Berry" <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message
news:hun4rv8ndqipsl2htjgcvau588c5oob9la@4ax.com...
OK, can you strip, rebuild, load and fire with accuracy a M-60 light
machine gun?
Nope.
But if I needed to, I'm sure I could be taught
By whom? Who will teach the trainer? Could it be us professional
murderers?
Know how to work as a member of an infantry squad in
urban terrain? Can you identify the weak spots on a BTR-70?
You don't. You're infantry.
I see. Ypu've never heard of shoulder fired anti-armor missiles like
the AT-4 or Javelin? Even the M-72 LAW could punch the armor on a
BTR-70. Oh, and just over the space between the two sets of wheels is
a point where the armor is very thin. 7.62mm rounds can penetrate
there.
How do you hunt tanks?
You run quickly and blow up their crews later.
Not an option when you are being overrun. You get into a deep hole,
then come up with either a LAAW or 40mm HEDP rifle grenade and fire
into the engine cowling. If you are in a wooded or built up area, you
can mobility kill a tank by getting close enough to get an explosive
charge into the tracks.
How fast can you don a protective mask?
I can learn.
Again, you think there are Red Cross classes in immediate action
drills for NBC attacks?
Treat
a sucking chest wound?
Apply basic 1st aid and take them to a hospital.
Ah. Sucks that your buddy died. So you, an armed insurgent, think
you are just going to waltz into town and drop off your buddy at a
nice, clean ER?
In real comnbat zones, armies hold towns. So all you would be doing
is signing you and your buddy's death warrants. *You* have to treat
him.
I'll start you off. It's a *sucking" wound. You need to seal it.
plastic, Saran wrap, anything air-proof that can keep air from
entering the chest cavity needs to applied quickly.
Clear a minefield?
Stay away from them
Sorry, you need to get through it. You are clearing lanes for an
assault. How do you clear a field of mixed bounding anti-personnel
and pressure trigger anti-vehicle mines? Name the most common field
booby trap found in a minefield?
Throw a
hand grenade?
Hand grenades are a poor weapon in such a situation (likely urban). Unless
you want to kill civilians.
Do you really think people will be out shopping? Civilians are
running like hell and staying down!
What
is the proper lead distance when firing at aircraft with small arms?
Firing at a helicopter?
You take cover and bomb their bases, kill their troops etc.
With what aircraft? Remember, you are a civilian reisitance movement!
That helicopyer is on of fifty dropping an enemy brigade around you!
Drop it, and 12 bad guys die without being able to shoot back! What
is the proper lead?
Hating the "professional murderers" is always fashionable. Until the
other side's troops approach your home town. Then we're heroes.
I don't tend to follow fashions.
I don't do conventional warfare. Nor do I have any intention of ever doing
it.
Luckily for you, other people are.
By they way.. Rangers do unconvential warfare. My first combat
experience was in El Salvador. Where I sdnipped and assaulted the
troops of the FSLN. They were barely trained. They died in droves.
Faced with real soldiers they ran like puppies.
--
Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Ezekiel 13:20 "Wherefore thus saith the
Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows"
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Religion, The Army, and Rememberance |
15 Nov 2003 12:57:19 AM |
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On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 03:21:11 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com>, Message ID:
<i6t5rvos5dmr4hheuqllt8te4hre7vc8o0@4ax.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
Lo, many moons past, on Wed, 12 Nov 2003 23:42:04 -0000, a stranger
called by some "Alun Harford" <alunharford@yahoo.com> came forth and
told this tale in alt.atheism
"Douglas Berry" <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message
news:hun4rv8ndqipsl2htjgcvau588c5oob9la@4ax.com...
OK, can you strip, rebuild, load and fire with accuracy a M-60 light
machine gun?
Nope.
But if I needed to, I'm sure I could be taught
By whom? Who will teach the trainer? Could it be us professional
murderers?
Know how to work as a member of an infantry squad in
urban terrain? Can you identify the weak spots on a BTR-70?
You don't. You're infantry.
I see. Ypu've never heard of shoulder fired anti-armor missiles like
the AT-4 or Javelin? Even the M-72 LAW could punch the armor on a
BTR-70. Oh, and just over the space between the two sets of wheels is
a point where the armor is very thin. 7.62mm rounds can penetrate
there.
7.62 mm rounds are sniper rifle rounds, aren't they?
How do you hunt tanks?
You run quickly and blow up their crews later.
Not an option when you are being overrun. You get into a deep hole,
then come up with either a LAAW or 40mm HEDP rifle grenade and fire
into the engine cowling. If you are in a wooded or built up area, you
can mobility kill a tank by getting close enough to get an explosive
charge into the tracks.
How fast can you don a protective mask?
I can learn.
Again, you think there are Red Cross classes in immediate action
drills for NBC attacks?
Treat
a sucking chest wound?
Apply basic 1st aid and take them to a hospital.
Ah. Sucks that your buddy died. So you, an armed insurgent, think
you are just going to waltz into town and drop off your buddy at a
nice, clean ER?
In real comnbat zones, armies hold towns. So all you would be doing
is signing you and your buddy's death warrants. *You* have to treat
him.
I'll start you off. It's a *sucking" wound. You need to seal it.
plastic, Saran wrap, anything air-proof that can keep air from
entering the chest cavity needs to applied quickly.
Clear a minefield?
Stay away from them
Sorry, you need to get through it. You are clearing lanes for an
assault. How do you clear a field of mixed bounding anti-personnel
and pressure trigger anti-vehicle mines? Name the most common field
booby trap found in a minefield?
Throw a
hand grenade?
Hand grenades are a poor weapon in such a situation (likely urban). Unless
you want to kill civilians.
Do you really think people will be out shopping? Civilians are
running like hell and staying down!
What
is the proper lead distance when firing at aircraft with small arms?
Firing at a helicopter?
You take cover and bomb their bases, kill their troops etc.
With what aircraft? Remember, you are a civilian reisitance movement!
That helicopyer is on of fifty dropping an enemy brigade around you!
Drop it, and 12 bad guys die without being able to shoot back! What
is the proper lead?
Hating the "professional murderers" is always fashionable. Until the
other side's troops approach your home town. Then we're heroes.
I don't tend to follow fashions.
I don't do conventional warfare. Nor do I have any intention of ever doing
it.
Luckily for you, other people are.
By they way.. Rangers do unconvential warfare. My first combat
experience was in El Salvador. Where I sdnipped and assaulted the
troops of the FSLN. They were barely trained. They died in droves.
Faced with real soldiers they ran like puppies.
Cannon fodder. Nice stomping and twisting on his crank with your combat
boots, Douglas.
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
.
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: Religion, The Army, and Rememberance |
15 Nov 2003 09:39:03 AM |
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Lo, many moons past, on Fri, 14 Nov 2003 22:57:19 -0800, a stranger
called by some stoney <stoney@the.net> came forth and told this tale
in alt.atheism
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 03:21:11 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com>, Message ID:
<i6t5rvos5dmr4hheuqllt8te4hre7vc8o0@4ax.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
I see. Ypu've never heard of shoulder fired anti-armor missiles like
the AT-4 or Javelin? Even the M-72 LAW could punch the armor on a
BTR-70. Oh, and just over the space between the two sets of wheels is
a point where the armor is very thin. 7.62mm rounds can penetrate
there.
7.62 mm rounds are sniper rifle rounds, aren't they?
They are used for that, but they are basically the .303 round (30-30
to American hunters.) They are used in battle rifles (The German G3,
the old M-14) and in squad/platoon level machine guns like the M-60
and the M-240G.
By they way.. Rangers do unconvential warfare. My first combat
experience was in El Salvador. Where I sdnipped and assaulted the
troops of the FSLN. They were barely trained. They died in droves.
Faced with real soldiers they ran like puppies.
Cannon fodder. Nice stomping and twisting on his crank with your combat
boots, Douglas.
Thanks. It's obviously that this guy doesn't read any history that
goes into detail. There have been very few unsupported indeigenous
resistance movements that have accomplished much. Look at the Karin
rebels in Burma, for example. 20 years and nothing to show for it.
--
Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Ezekiel 13:20 "Wherefore thus saith the
Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows"
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Religion, The Army, and Rememberance |
18 Nov 2003 10:36:01 AM |
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On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 15:39:03 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com>, Message ID:
<plhcrv066bgcvm8guq1k1sh70os241cecg@4ax.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
Lo, many moons past, on Fri, 14 Nov 2003 22:57:19 -0800, a stranger
called by some stoney <stoney@the.net> came forth and told this tale
in alt.atheism
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 03:21:11 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com>, Message ID:
<i6t5rvos5dmr4hheuqllt8te4hre7vc8o0@4ax.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
I see. Ypu've never heard of shoulder fired anti-armor missiles like
the AT-4 or Javelin? Even the M-72 LAW could punch the armor on a
BTR-70. Oh, and just over the space between the two sets of wheels is
a point where the armor is very thin. 7.62mm rounds can penetrate
there.
7.62 mm rounds are sniper rifle rounds, aren't they?
They are used for that, but they are basically the .303 round (30-30
to American hunters.) They are used in battle rifles (The German G3,
the old M-14) and in squad/platoon level machine guns like the M-60
and the M-240G.
Thank you.
By they way.. Rangers do unconvential warfare. My first combat
experience was in El Salvador. Where I sdnipped and assaulted the
troops of the FSLN. They were barely trained. They died in droves.
Faced with real soldiers they ran like puppies.
Cannon fodder. Nice stomping and twisting on his crank with your combat
boots, Douglas.
Thanks. It's obviously that this guy doesn't read any history that
goes into detail. There have been very few unsupported indeigenous
resistance movements that have accomplished much. Look at the Karin
rebels in Burma, for example. 20 years and nothing to show for it.
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
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| User: "AngryJohn" |
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| Title: Re: Religion, The Army, and Rememberance |
15 Nov 2003 01:32:25 AM |
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On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 22:57:19 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 03:21:11 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com>, Message ID:
<i6t5rvos5dmr4hheuqllt8te4hre7vc8o0@4ax.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
Lo, many moons past, on Wed, 12 Nov 2003 23:42:04 -0000, a stranger
called by some "Alun Harford" <alunharford@yahoo.com> came forth and
told this tale in alt.atheism
"Douglas Berry" <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message
news:hun4rv8ndqipsl2htjgcvau588c5oob9la@4ax.com...
OK, can you strip, rebuild, load and fire with accuracy a M-60 light
machine gun?
Nope.
But if I needed to, I'm sure I could be taught
By whom? Who will teach the trainer? Could it be us professional
murderers?
Know how to work as a member of an infantry squad in
urban terrain? Can you identify the weak spots on a BTR-70?
You don't. You're infantry.
I see. Ypu've never heard of shoulder fired anti-armor missiles like
the AT-4 or Javelin? Even the M-72 LAW could punch the armor on a
BTR-70. Oh, and just over the space between the two sets of wheels is
a point where the armor is very thin. 7.62mm rounds can penetrate
there.
7.62 mm rounds are sniper rifle rounds, aren't they?
Yes, and .50 cal. enriched rounds will go through even thicker armor,
and there are rifles for snipers of that round.
How do you hunt tanks?
You run quickly and blow up their crews later.
Not an option when you are being overrun. You get into a deep hole,
then come up with either a LAAW or 40mm HEDP rifle grenade and fire
into the engine cowling. If you are in a wooded or built up area, you
can mobility kill a tank by getting close enough to get an explosive
charge into the tracks.
How fast can you don a protective mask?
I can learn.
Again, you think there are Red Cross classes in immediate action
drills for NBC attacks?
Treat
a sucking chest wound?
Apply basic 1st aid and take them to a hospital.
Ah. Sucks that your buddy died. So you, an armed insurgent, think
you are just going to waltz into town and drop off your buddy at a
nice, clean ER?
In real comnbat zones, armies hold towns. So all you would be doing
is signing you and your buddy's death warrants. *You* have to treat
him.
I'll start you off. It's a *sucking" wound. You need to seal it.
plastic, Saran wrap, anything air-proof that can keep air from
entering the chest cavity needs to applied quickly.
Clear a minefield?
Stay away from them
Sorry, you need to get through it. You are clearing lanes for an
assault. How do you clear a field of mixed bounding anti-personnel
and pressure trigger anti-vehicle mines? Name the most common field
booby trap found in a minefield?
Throw a
hand grenade?
Hand grenades are a poor weapon in such a situation (likely urban). Unless
you want to kill civilians.
Do you really think people will be out shopping? Civilians are
running like hell and staying down!
What
is the proper lead distance when firing at aircraft with small arms?
Firing at a helicopter?
You take cover and bomb their bases, kill their troops etc.
With what aircraft? Remember, you are a civilian reisitance movement!
That helicopyer is on of fifty dropping an enemy brigade around you!
Drop it, and 12 bad guys die without being able to shoot back! What
is the proper lead?
Hating the "professional murderers" is always fashionable. Until the
other side's troops approach your home town. Then we're heroes.
I don't tend to follow fashions.
I don't do conventional warfare. Nor do I have any intention of ever doing
it.
Luckily for you, other people are.
By they way.. Rangers do unconvential warfare. My first combat
experience was in El Salvador. Where I sdnipped and assaulted the
troops of the FSLN. They were barely trained. They died in droves.
Faced with real soldiers they ran like puppies.
Cannon fodder. Nice stomping and twisting on his crank with your combat
boots, Douglas.
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
aa#2106
Remove Belief to reply
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: Religion, The Army, and Rememberance |
15 Nov 2003 09:39:52 AM |
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Lo, many moons past, on Sat, 15 Nov 2003 02:32:25 -0500, a stranger
called by some AngryJohn <KuoshuJohnBelief@hotmail.com> came forth
and told this tale in alt.atheism
Yes, and .50 cal. enriched rounds will go through even thicker armor,
and there are rifles for snipers of that round.
Yeah, and they are a ***** and a half to haul around.
--
Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Ezekiel 13:20 "Wherefore thus saith the
Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows"
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Religion, The Army, and Rememberance |
18 Nov 2003 10:29:14 AM |
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On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 02:32:25 -0500, AngryJohn
<KuoshuJohnBelief@hotmail.com>, Message ID:
<2ilbrvs4t34hi2t6k4tgu3dlu8ehr8prpg@4ax.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 22:57:19 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 03:21:11 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com>, Message ID:
<i6t5rvos5dmr4hheuqllt8te4hre7vc8o0@4ax.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
Lo, many moons past, on Wed, 12 Nov 2003 23:42:04 -0000, a stranger
called by some "Alun Harford" <alunharford@yahoo.com> came forth and
told this tale in alt.atheism
"Douglas Berry" <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message
news:hun4rv8ndqipsl2htjgcvau588c5oob9la@4ax.com...
OK, can you strip, rebuild, load and fire with accuracy a M-60 light
machine gun?
Nope.
But if I needed to, I'm sure I could be taught
By whom? Who will teach the trainer? Could it be us professional
murderers?
Know how to work as a member of an infantry squad in
urban terrain? Can you identify the weak spots on a BTR-70?
You don't. You're infantry.
I see. Ypu've never heard of shoulder fired anti-armor missiles like
the AT-4 or Javelin? Even the M-72 LAW could punch the armor on a
BTR-70. Oh, and just over the space between the two sets of wheels is
a point where the armor is very thin. 7.62mm rounds can penetrate
there.
7.62 mm rounds are sniper rifle rounds, aren't they?
Yes, and .50 cal. enriched rounds will go through even thicker armor,
and there are rifles for snipers of that round.
Thank you. At one time my Uncle had a Sharps 50 rifle and a couple of
boxes of rounds. I recall being astonished at how big the cartridges
were.
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
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| User: "Woden" |
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| Title: Re: Religion, The Army, and Rememberance |
12 Nov 2003 05:15:37 PM |
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Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in
news:hun4rv8ndqipsl2htjgcvau588c5oob9la@4ax.com:
Lo, many moons past, on Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:29:48 -0000, a stranger
called by some "Alun Harford" <alunharford@yahoo.com> came forth and
told this tale in alt.atheism
Surrendering to the Nazis would not have been better.
I didn't say that. I oppose professional soldiers, not unpaid armed
resistance to kill professional soldiers.
LOL!
OK, can you strip, rebuild, load and fire with accuracy a M-60 light
machine gun?
Yeah, I did that.
Know how to work as a member of an infantry squad in
urban terrain? Can you identify the weak spots on a BTR-70?
From my point of view (in a fighter cockpit) a BTR-70 was a weak spot.
How do you hunt tanks?
At 500 knots with AGM-65s, guns, MK82s, etc.
How fast can you don a protective mask? Treat
a sucking chest wound? Clear a minefield? Zero a rifle? Throw a
hand grenade? What is a danger point, and how do you cross it? What
is the proper lead distance when firing at aircraft with small arms?
Firing at a helicopter?
Try leading a 500 knot a/c when you're doing 500 knots as well. Lots of
fun. Helicopters just get strafed like ground targets.
These are things I learned in Basic Training. As a buck private in
the US Army, I could do all of these in a professional manner. The
protective mask? From case to cleared and sealed in nine seconds.
About the same. Even us fighter jocks had to do chemical/biolgical
training.
Partisans without outside support from professionals get steamrolled
and wiped out by professionals.
You may not like us, but you need us.
Grins from another one of those professionals.
Go read this.
http://www.web-books.com/Classics/Poetry/Anthology/Kipling/Tommy.htm
Hating the "professional murderers" is always fashionable. Until the
other side's troops approach your home town. Then we're heroes.
--
Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Ezekiel 13:20 "Wherefore thus saith the
Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows"
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political institution for the control of
people's thoughts, lives, and actions; based on
ancient myths and superstitions perpetrated through
generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: Religion, The Army, and Rememberance |
12 Nov 2003 09:04:35 PM |
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Lo, many moons past, on Wed, 12 Nov 2003 23:15:37 -0000, a stranger
called by some Woden <woden@charter.net> came forth and told this
tale in alt.atheism
Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in
news:hun4rv8ndqipsl2htjgcvau588c5oob9la@4ax.com:
Lo, many moons past, on Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:29:48 -0000, a stranger
called by some "Alun Harford" <alunharford@yahoo.com> came forth and
told this tale in alt.atheism
Surrendering to the Nazis would not have been better.
I didn't say that. I oppose professional soldiers, not unpaid armed
resistance to kill professional soldiers.
Know how to work as a member of an infantry squad in
urban terrain? Can you identify the weak spots on a BTR-70?
From my point of view (in a fighter cockpit) a BTR-70 was a weak spot.
Good point.
How do you hunt tanks?
At 500 knots with AGM-65s, guns, MK82s, etc.
Hm. One of my options was "scream for air support."
How fast can you don a protective mask? Treat
a sucking chest wound? Clear a minefield? Zero a rifle? Throw a
hand grenade? What is a danger point, and how do you cross it? What
is the proper lead distance when firing at aircraft with small arms?
Firing at a helicopter?
Try leading a 500 knot a/c when you're doing 500 knots as well. Lots of
fun. Helicopters just get strafed like ground targets.
Glasses kept me from any dreams of flight. Beisdes, I liked the
ground. Lots of cover.
Partisans without outside support from professionals get steamrolled
and wiped out by professionals.
You may not like us, but you need us.
Grins from another one of those professionals.
Happy Veteran's Day, and thank you.
--
Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Ezekiel 13:20 "Wherefore thus saith the
Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows"
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Religion, The Army, and Rememberance |
13 Nov 2003 04:33:13 PM |
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On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 16:39:18 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com>, Message ID:
<hun4rv8ndqipsl2htjgcvau588c5oob9la@4ax.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
Lo, many moons past, on Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:29:48 -0000, a stranger
called by some "Alun Harford" <alunharford@yahoo.com> came forth and
told this tale in alt.atheism
Surrendering to the Nazis would not have been better.
I didn't say that. I oppose professional soldiers, not unpaid armed
resistance to kill professional soldiers.
LOL!
OK, can you strip, rebuild, load and fire with accuracy a M-60 light
machine gun? Know how to work as a member of an infantry squad in
urban terrain? Can you identify the weak spots on a BTR-70?
How do you hunt tanks? How fast can you don a protective mask? Treat
a sucking chest wound? Clear a minefield? Zero a rifle? Throw a
hand grenade? What is a danger point, and how do you cross it? What
is the proper lead distance when firing at aircraft with small arms?
Firing at a helicopter?
These are things I learned in Basic Training. As a buck private in
the US Army, I could do all of these in a professional manner. The
protective mask? From case to cleared and sealed in nine seconds.
Partisans without outside support from professionals get steamrolled
and wiped out by professionals.
You may not like us, but you need us.
Go read this.
http://www.web-books.com/Classics/Poetry/Anthology/Kipling/Tommy.htm
Hating the "professional murderers" is always fashionable. Until the
other side's troops approach your home town. Then we're heroes.
No *****. Folks like him would be crying as they're being herded to
death camps, used for bayonette practice and the like. They'd be
crying, "Why isn't anyone coming to my defense?"
The answer would be, there's no one to come to your defense as the
untrained cannon fodder tried and died. They died due to their induced
ignorance because of people like you.
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Religion, The Army, and Rememberance |
13 Nov 2003 04:30:17 PM |
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On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:29:48 -0000, "Alun Harford"
<alunharford@yahoo.com>, Message ID:
<bosr1m$mac$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> wrote in alt.atheism;
"Kermit" <freehand_THX1138@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1575bfdc.0311112037.604c30fc@posting.google.com...
"Alun Harford" <alunharford@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<bor3r6$8id$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>...
"Levy Oates" <levy_oates@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:erv1rvoq8613se8b15173comt8uefiqj55@4ax.com...
On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 15:20:59 -0000, "Alun Harford"
<alunharford@yahoo.com> wrote:
I think it's so demeaning to the life and achievements of my mates
to
have
all those sanctimonious pillocks bleating on about "their
sacrifice".
They
didn't "sacrifice" themselves....they were bloody well killed by
nasty
people with guns and bombs.
Owww. Diddums.
They went to war as professional murderers.
Other professional murderers killed them.
One down, plenty more to go.
Whether they were conscripted or fought as volunteers, I think those
who fought against fascism in WWII deserve a little more credit than
you seem to imply. Presumably you would have welcomed those "other
professional murderers" with open arms?
I would welcome no set of professional killers with open arms.
The reality is that you cannot stop a political movement or any large
group
by force. All that happens is that the oppressed become the oppressors,
and
we all go around again. And we spend millions of lives doing it.
Levy Oates and his mates bloody well did stop the Nazis with force,
and I'm grateful for them.
They're back.
Your point is? (I want you to spell it out as I do not want to be
accused of 'putting words in your mouth')
After WW1, we decided to oppress and try to elimate the Germans. Then
the
Germans tried to eliminate the Jews. They failed so now everybody
switches
sides and Israel tries to eliminate the Palistinians. They will fail and
the
Palistinians will go and oppress somebody else.
If you're saying that power-hungry politicians are behind half our
troubles, you're right. (Power-hungry religious fanatics are behind
the other half).
But you are naive beyond all reason if you think violence is *never
the answer. When a mugger comes for you, just offer him a group hug;
I'm sure he'll see the light.
I don't.
You missed his sarcasm with the last line.
I don't think *professional* murder is right.
What about *professional* ignorance like yours?
Somebody has to find a sane way of doing this. War is clearly not an
option
that works.
Surrendering to the Nazis would not have been better.
I didn't say that. I oppose professional soldiers, not unpaid armed
resistance to kill professional soldiers.
You are very naiive. The times of rabble fighting are past. The
training, and such, is an attempt to keep you alive.
Is my president's decision to go to war in Iraq stupid and
self-serving? I think so. But it was not the soldiers who were
consulted.
They made the choice to go there.
*****.
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
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| User: "Levy Oates" |
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| Title: Re: Religion, The Army, and Rememberance |
12 Nov 2003 11:37:51 AM |
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On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:29:48 -0000, "Alun Harford" <alunharford@yahoo.com>
wrote:
"Kermit" <freehand_THX1138@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1575bfdc.0311112037.604c30fc@posting.google.com...
"Alun Harford" <alunharford@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<bor3r6$8id$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>...
"Levy Oates" <levy_oates@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:erv1rvoq8613se8b15173comt8uefiqj55@4ax.com...
On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 15:20:59 -0000, "Alun Harford"
<alunharford@yahoo.com> wrote:
I think it's so demeaning to the life and achievements of my mates
to
have
all those sanctimonious pillocks bleating on about "their
sacrifice".
They
didn't "sacrifice" themselves....they were bloody well killed by
nasty
people with guns and bombs.
Owww. Diddums.
They went to war as professional murderers.
Other professional murderers killed them.
One down, plenty more to go.
Whether they were conscripted or fought as volunteers, I think those
who fought against fascism in WWII deserve a little more credit than
you seem to imply. Presumably you would have welcomed those "other
professional murderers" with open arms?
I would welcome no set of professional killers with open arms.
The reality is that you cannot stop a political movement or any large
group
by force. All that happens is that the oppressed become the oppressors,
and
we all go around again. And we spend millions of lives doing it.
Levy Oates and his mates bloody well did stop the Nazis with force,
and I'm grateful for them.
They're back.
After WW1, we decided to oppress and try to elimate the Germans. Then
the
Germans tried to eliminate the Jews. They failed so now everybody
switches
sides and Israel tries to eliminate the Palistinians. They will fail and
the
Palistinians will go and oppress somebody else.
If you're saying that power-hungry politicians are behind half our
troubles, you're right. (Power-hungry religious fanatics are behind
the other half).
But you are naive beyond all reason if you think violence is *never
the answer. When a mugger comes for you, just offer him a group hug;
I'm sure he'll see the light.
I don't.
I don't think *professional* murder is right.
Somebody has to find a sane way of doing this. War is clearly not an
option
that works.
Surrendering to the Nazis would not have been better.
I didn't say that. I oppose professional soldiers, not unpaid armed
resistance to kill professional soldiers.
Is my president's decision to go to war in Iraq stupid and
self-serving? I think so. But it was not the soldiers who were
consulted.
They made the choice to go there.
Alun Harford
Alun
In the days when the USA has got itself involved in the biggest embarassment
since Adam and Eve turned round and said "...oh, *that* apple...", it's
understandable to adopt an anti-war posture. However, to say as a result that
*all* wars are unjust and all professional armies unnecessary is as simplistic
as G.W.Shrubrain's "you're either with us or your against us".
I see no alternative to using force when faced with a belligerent fascist regime
such as Hitler's Germany and I'm grateful to those who fought against it. The
very freedom that you are now using to criticize those "professional murderers"
was bought at a price.
Levy
p.s. Just to clarify for folks - I've never been in the armed forces. I was
simply reposting something from someone who had and who was appalled by
religious hijiacking of warfare for their own good. I thought that was a
sentiment that would be universally appreciated in this group. Clearly I have
much to learn.
---------
Archdeacom Levy Oates
On behalf of the Prophet Eric Peabody (pbuh)
Basingstoke, England
http://www.angelfire.com/alt/bumblism/
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| User: "Alun Harford" |
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| Title: Re: Religion, The Army, and Rememberance |
12 Nov 2003 05:45:22 PM |
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"Levy Oates" <levy_oates@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:qar4rvoq4h94j0a90ubnf1sggvoij4g37o@4ax.com...
On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:29:48 -0000, "Alun Harford" <alunharford@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Alun
In the days when the USA has got itself involved in the biggest
embarassment
since Adam and Eve turned round and said "...oh, *that* apple...", it's
understandable to adopt an anti-war posture.
I don't do fashion. I have always adopted an anti-war posture.
However, to say as a result that
*all* wars are unjust and all professional armies unnecessary is as
simplistic
as G.W.Shrubrain's "you're either with us or your against us".
I see no alternative to using force when faced with a belligerent fascist
regime
such as Hitler's Germany and I'm grateful to those who fought against it.
WW2 was a continuation of WW1. The solution to WW2 was "Don't start from
here".
The
very freedom that you are now using to criticize those "professional
murderers"
was bought at a price.
Freedom is always bought at a price.
I set my price higher and get more freedom.
Some set their price lower and get some freedom and some military.
Alun Harford
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Religion, The Army, and Rememberance |
15 Nov 2003 01:00:44 AM |
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On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 23:45:22 -0000, "Alun Harford"
<alunharford@yahoo.com>, Message ID:
<bougma$bc6$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> wrote in alt.atheism;
"Levy Oates" <levy_oates@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:qar4rvoq4h94j0a90ubnf1sggvoij4g37o@4ax.com...
On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:29:48 -0000, "Alun Harford" <alunharford@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Alun
In the days when the USA has got itself involved in the biggest
embarassment
since Adam and Eve turned round and said "...oh, *that* apple...", it's
understandable to adopt an anti-war posture.
I don't do fashion. I have always adopted an anti-war posture.
However, to say as a result that
*all* wars are unjust and all professional armies unnecessary is as
simplistic
as G.W.Shrubrain's "you're either with us or your against us".
I see no alternative to using force when faced with a belligerent fascist
regime
such as Hitler's Germany and I'm grateful to those who fought against it.
WW2 was a continuation of WW1. The solution to WW2 was "Don't start from
here".
The
very freedom that you are now using to criticize those "professional
murderers"
was bought at a price.
Freedom is always bought at a price.
I set my price higher and get more freedom.
No, you don't fuckwit. Your price is ground zero and wouldn't buy a
stick of chewing gum. You don't know jack *****.
Some set their price lower and get some freedom and some military.
There isn't a damn thing that's lower than you.
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
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| User: "Levy Oates" |
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| Title: Re: Religion, The Army, and Rememberance |
13 Nov 2003 01:02:51 AM |
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On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 23:45:22 -0000, "Alun Harford" <alunharford@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Freedom is always bought at a price.
I set my price higher and get more freedom.
Some set their price lower and get some freedom and some military.
Pompous, holier-than-thow, drivel.
---------
Archdeacom Levy Oates
On behalf of the Prophet Eric Peabody (pbuh)
Basingstoke, England
http://www.angelfire.com/alt/bumblism/
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| User: "J Forbes" |
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| Title: Re: Religion, The Army, and Rememberance |
11 Nov 2003 12:04:08 PM |
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Alun Harford wrote:
I would welcome no set of professional killers with open arms.
The reality is that you cannot stop a political movement or any large group
by force. All that happens is that the oppressed become the oppressors, and
we all go around again. And we spend millions of lives doing it.
After WW1, we decided to oppress and try to elimate the Germans. Then the
Germans tried to eliminate the Jews. They failed so now everybody switches
sides and Israel tries to eliminate the Palistinians. They will fail and the
Palistinians will go and oppress somebody else.
Somebody has to find a sane way of doing this. War is clearly not an option
that works.
But since we're stuck with humans overpopulating the planet, I expect
we're stuck with war for quite a long ways into the future. Oh, well.
--
Jim
Visit the Selectric Typewriter Museum!
http://www.mindspring.com/~jforbes2
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| User: "socode" |
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| Title: Re: Religion, The Army, and Rememberance |
12 Nov 2003 11:03:46 AM |
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Alun Harford wrote:
The reality is that you cannot stop a political movement or
any large group by force.
Force has stopped more political movements and "large groups"
than anything else throughout history.
The morality of using force is a completely separate issue.
socode
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| User: "Alun Harford" |
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| Title: Re: Religion, The Army, and Rememberance |
12 Nov 2003 05:45:47 PM |
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"socode" <news@socode.com> wrote in message
news:botp4t$ccs$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
Alun Harford wrote:
The reality is that you cannot stop a political movement or
any large group by force.
Force has stopped more political movements and "large groups"
than anything else throughout history.
Name one.
Alun Harford
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| User: "Will" |
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| Title: Re: Religion, The Army, and Rememberance |
12 Nov 2003 09:11:49 PM |
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"Alun Harford" <alunharford@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<bougn3$bcb$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>...
"socode" <news@socode.com> wrote in message
news:botp4t$ccs$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
Alun Harford wrote:
The reality is that you cannot stop a political movement or
any large group by force.
Force has stopped more political movements and "large groups"
than anything else throughout history.
Name one.
Alun Harford
Mussolini's Fascists? The NAZIs? Carthage? Egyptian Christianity? Russian Paganism?
Will
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| User: "Alun Harford" |
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| Title: Re: Religion, The Army, and Rememberance |
13 Nov 2003 01:33:00 PM |
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"Will" <wryan@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:e6e41727.0311121911.736f786e@posting.google.com...
"Alun Harford" <alunharford@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<bougn3$bcb$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>...
"socode" <news@socode.com> wrote in message
news:botp4t$ccs$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
Alun Harford wrote:
The reality is that you cannot stop a political movement or
any large group by force.
Force has stopped more political movements and "large groups"
than anything else throughout history.
Name one.
Alun Harford
Mussolini's Fascists? The NAZIs?
Back in force.
Alun Harford
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| User: "socode" |
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| Title: Re: Religion, The Army, and Rememberance |
13 Nov 2003 05:20:13 AM |
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Alun Harford wrote:
"socode" <news@socode.com> wrote in message
news:botp4t$ccs$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
Alun Harford wrote:
The reality is that you cannot stop a political movement or
any large group by force.
Force has stopped more political movements and "large groups"
than anything else throughout history.
Name one.
The Nazis. Now, what was that reality you were talking about?
socode
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| User: "Alun Harford" |
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| Title: Re: Religion, The Army, and Rememberance |
13 Nov 2003 01:33:48 PM |
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"socode" <news@socode.com> wrote in message
news:bovpco$k7o$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
Alun Harford wrote:
"socode" <news@socode.com> wrote in message
news:botp4t$ccs$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
Alun Harford wrote:
The reality is that you cannot stop a political movement or
any large group by force.
Force has stopped more political movements and "large groups"
than anything else throughout history.
Name one.
The Nazis. Now, what was that reality you were talking about?
Fascism in general is still going very strong.
Alun Harford
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| User: "socode" |
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| Title: Re: Religion, The Army, and Rememberance |
13 Nov 2003 02:17:39 PM |
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Alun Harford wrote:
"socode" <news@socode.com> wrote in message
news:bovpco$k7o$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
Alun Harford wrote:
"socode" <news@socode.com> wrote in message
news:botp4t$ccs$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
Alun Harford wrote:
The reality is that you cannot stop a political movement or
any large group by force.
Force has stopped more political movements and "large groups"
than anything else throughout history.
Name one.
The Nazis. Now, what was that reality you were talking about?
Fascism in general is still going very strong.
What do you consider "very strong"?
For a time, the Nazis had control over most of Europe.
socode
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