That's the great irony, the neocons set out (and blatantly) to coopt
religious fundamentalism to *use them as "foot soldiers." But believe any
of that stuff? Nah. The neocon elite doesn't even have to believe in

In episode <1ajbe151mauifap2csegs9m5bpnu7qt0pq@4ax.com>, raven1 burst into
the room and exclaimed:

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 20:09:29 -0400, Fly Fisherman
<flyfisherman@is-fishing.cc> wrote:

Mark K. Bilbo wrote:

Three-fourths. Which is 38 states at present. Amendments are proposed
by a two-thirds vote of Congress or a convention can be called by
two-thirds of the legislatures of the states.

http://supreme.lp.findlaw.com/constitution/article05/index.html

You beat me to the punch! If religious conservatives knew how much the
GOP leadership was misleading them, they would be infuriated.

Hell, they haven't even gotten the first clue yet as to how much their own
pastors are misleading them.

Effectively, any constitutional amendment that tried to outlaw gay
marriage or abortion would be stillborn because there are fourteen
solidly blue states. That is why I try to get people to understand that
these issues are "red herrings."

The GOP takes a page right out of Lenin's playbook, regarding the
religious right as "useful idiots" to be pandered to without ever actually
giving them anything substantial in return for their support.

That's the great irony, the neocons set out (and blatantly) to coopt
religious fundamentalism to *use them as "foot soldiers." But believe any
of that stuff? Nah. The neocon elite doesn't even have to believe in "god."

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 22:02:25 -0400, "Sparky"
<Sparky@no.spam.wanted.cc> wrote:

Fly Fisherman is correct. Laws that are not specifically granted to the
federal government, via the U.S. Constitution, are granted to the states.

Agreed, but you mis-stated slightly. POWERS that are not granted to
the Fed. Govt. are reserved for the states AND THE PEOPLE.

So what's the difference? you ask. Not much. Except that the fed.
judiciary is given the ultimate power over states and local govts. to
interpret the Constitution. It was the Supreme Court that decided
laws against abortion are a violation of the individual's right to
privacy.

That does not stop government from creating laws that are unconstitutional
such as mandatory minimum sentences for drug offenders, which has created a
situation where violent criminals are left out of prision so that
non-violent drug offenders can be incarcerated.

Couldn't agree with you more there. I think a case could be made that
the fed. govt's powers to outlaw drugs is limited to interstate
commerce of drugs. Or maybe you could see it as a public safety
issue, like uniform nationwide poultry inspection.

I'm not disagreeing. The thing is, I remember hearing about women
arranging weekend trips to Sweden. Why would they do that if you
could get an abortion in the next state?

I also remember abortions being allowed in some conditions to protect
the health of the mother, and politicians complaining that this was
too broadly interpreted to include such things as temporary emotional
health.

Even in the Reagan days, pro-lifers wanted abortion to be allowed only
in cases of rape, incest, or the health of the mother. Now they say
even these exceptions are too much.

If Roe v. Wade were to be overturned, there are seventeen states that still
have pre-Roe v. Wade abortion bans on the books. Maine and Maryland are
the only two states that have laws on the books that guarantee abortion
rights. I suspect that the remaining blue states would rapidly enact
abortion rights laws, and a slug fest would occur in the swing states.

Yes, but Roe v Wade can't be reconsidered except on the basis of some
serious new evidence or developments. The Repubs are promising
pro-lifers that they only need to stack the court with pro-life judges
and they can simply bring up Roe v Wade and reverse it. That's not
constitutional! (Not, of course, to say that it won't happen like
that, just that it isn't constitutional.)

In other words the issue is not nearly as simple as the Religious
Right wants to see it.