Religious issues in therapy



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "John Smith"
Date: 30 Nov 2006 10:21:04 PM
Object: Religious issues in therapy
I am a logical positivist, and view the issue of religion as contrived
incoherent gibberish generated by superstitious minds. Superstitious minds
can think what they want, but why should I join their delusion.
How much of psychology [cognitive therapy] is allowed [without crossing
over to malpractice] to intermingle with the religion of the therapist which
are not in alignment with the client. I just naively assumed that the
reason people go to a therapist, rather than to a priest just so that they
avoid the influence of religion. If you choose to go to a faith-based
center, then it's a forgone conclusion that you will be influenced by
religion. On the other hand, I know of a therapist who told me that she was
forbidden [by the government clinic] to recommend an abortion to her clients
because she was invoking her non-religious views on people, and in violation
of the separation of church and state [her supervisor's explanation].
Fifteen years ago, a therapist started to tell me to turn my problems
over to a higher power, but was reluctant to say God, knowing that I would
get turned off. That incident smacked of religious indoctrination at a time
when I really was susceptible to it. Fundamentally, I should have asked for
my money back, since she was not giving me an answer. As far as I am
concerned, she was ducking the issue. I wanted to tell her that it is as if
I gave her a one hundred dollar bill, and she gave me change in Monopoly
money. Yes, there as a two way conversation, but her end was nonsense. She
thought that I did not understand, and rephrased the response. I told her
that I understood, but that there was no higher power. Then she said that I
should turn my problems over to My Higher Self! That was even more
laughable. I did not believe that in each of us, there is something greater
than that which we already are! I understand that there are lots of people
out there ready to spend great sums of money on a piece of the blue sky, but
I wish she had told me that she was a quack much earlier in the process. I
might have suggested that people who are mentally or psychologically unable
to comprehend her should make for much more eager clients.
Five years ago, I told another therapist that I was an atheist. She
told me that I was a confused believer, but turned to, identified with, and
choose to associate with those atheists. Great conjecture, but this was
just stated without any proof. She said that we all are believers, but just
need to accept God in our life.
Where do They think of this? I should applaud her religious indoctrination.
No idiot Baptist would have thought it through to that conclusion. At best,
he would has stood up and accused the Devil of corrupting my mind and sent
me off the electroshock therapy, since burning heretics at the stake can't
be done to whites at least for a few more years, when we elect religious
zealots far more to the right of GWB.
.

User: "Denis Loubet"

Title: Re: Religious issues in therapy 01 Dec 2006 02:12:29 AM
"John Smith" <smith@webejebe.com> wrote in message
news:ekoajh$n39$1@aioe.org...

I am a logical positivist, and view the issue of religion as contrived
incoherent gibberish generated by superstitious minds. Superstitious
minds can think what they want, but why should I join their delusion.
How much of psychology [cognitive therapy] is allowed [without
crossing over to malpractice] to intermingle with the religion of the
therapist which are not in alignment with the client. I just naively
assumed that the reason people go to a therapist, rather than to a priest
just so that they avoid the influence of religion. If you choose to go to
a faith-based center, then it's a forgone conclusion that you will be
influenced by religion. On the other hand, I know of a therapist who told
me that she was forbidden [by the government clinic] to recommend an
abortion to her clients because she was invoking her non-religious views
on people, and in violation of the separation of church and state [her
supervisor's explanation].
Fifteen years ago, a therapist started to tell me to turn my problems
over to a higher power, but was reluctant to say God, knowing that I would
get turned off. That incident smacked of religious indoctrination at a
time when I really was susceptible to it. Fundamentally, I should have
asked for my money back, since she was not giving me an answer. As far as
I am concerned, she was ducking the issue. I wanted to tell her that it
is as if I gave her a one hundred dollar bill, and she gave me change in
Monopoly money. Yes, there as a two way conversation, but her end was
nonsense. She thought that I did not understand, and rephrased the
response. I told her that I understood, but that there was no higher
power. Then she said that I should turn my problems over to My Higher
Self! That was even more laughable. I did not believe that in each of
us, there is something greater than that which we already are! I
understand that there are lots of people out there ready to spend great
sums of money on a piece of the blue sky, but I wish she had told me that
she was a quack much earlier in the process. I might have suggested that
people who are mentally or psychologically unable to comprehend her should
make for much more eager clients.
Five years ago, I told another therapist that I was an atheist. She
told me that I was a confused believer, but turned to, identified with,
and choose to associate with those atheists. Great conjecture, but this
was just stated without any proof. She said that we all are believers,
but just need to accept God in our life.
Where do They think of this? I should applaud her religious
indoctrination. No idiot Baptist would have thought it through to that
conclusion. At best, he would has stood up and accused the Devil of
corrupting my mind and sent me off the electroshock therapy, since burning
heretics at the stake can't be done to whites at least for a few more
years, when we elect religious zealots far more to the right of GWB.

Whether convincing you to turn your life over to a higher power, or planting
memories of alien abduction, therapy's a gamble.
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
http://www.ashenempires.com
.

User: "ernobe"

Title: Re: Religious issues in therapy 06 Dec 2006 04:11:53 PM
John Smith wrote:

I am a logical positivist,

There is very little logical positivism complaining about therapy when
you've not even explained why you're in therapy.
.

User: "Uncle Clover"

Title: Re: Religious issues in therapy 01 Dec 2006 09:21:52 PM
On Thu, 30 Nov 2006 23:21:04 -0500, "John Smith" <smith@webejebe.com> wrote:
<snip>

I know of a therapist who told me that she was forbidden [by the
government clinic] to recommend an abortion to her clients because she
was invoking her non-religious views on people, and in violation of the
separation of church and state [her supervisor's explanation].

All kinds of policies get interpretted in all kinds of ways by all kinds of
people. Though I'm not sure what right a therapist would have to "recommend" an
abortion. She should have been able to explain the procedure, what all it
involves and what emotional issues there may or may not be surrounding it - she
could even offer encouragement if that's what her client decides to do, but then
she should also offer encouragement if that's -not- what her client decides to
do. But to say, "I think you should have an abortion" just isn't a therapist's
job. Or have I misunderstood your meaning? :-?
<snip>

she said that I should turn my problems over to My Higher Self! That
was even more laughable. I did not believe that in each of us, there is
something greater than that which we already are!

That's tautological. If it's in us, then it can't possibly be greater than we
are because it's already us. So even if she's right, so are you. ;-)
As for the concept itself, I don't know about a higher "spiritual" being of any
sort, but I do know that it pays well for one to sit quietly and listen to the
churning machinery of their own mental insides.
<snip>
--
L8r,
Uncle Clover
***********************************************************
The true mark of a civilized society is that its
citizens know how to hate each other peacefully.
***********************************************************
Should one hope to grow old enough that they've lost all
enthusiasm for life? It is a question one never knows the
true answer to until it is too late to act upon it.
***********************************************************
.
User: "John Smith"

Title: Re: Religious issues in therapy 01 Dec 2006 11:27:58 PM
My fundamental problem is these conjectures that professionals say without
any proof.
At least my bartender charges less.
"Uncle Clover" <UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com> wrote in message
news:2ur1n2lgb48fnmpidgtg14gpf75tru8r5r@4ax.com...

On Thu, 30 Nov 2006 23:21:04 -0500, "John Smith" <smith@webejebe.com>
wrote:

<snip>

I know of a therapist who told me that she was forbidden [by the
government clinic] to recommend an abortion to her clients because she
was invoking her non-religious views on people, and in violation of the
separation of church and state [her supervisor's explanation].

I probably did not state it correct. The therapist was not to suggest an
abortion or to bring it up. I don't recall what was the policy if the
client brought it up, but think that someone in the upper hierachy was
thinking that this is a hot potatoe and wanted to dump the responsibilty on
the therapist. Great strategy on the part of the hierarchy.
I was told that therapist really don't like to recommend much. I was told
that they will only tell you if they think something is wrong or your
interpretion is incorrect. They are there to guide you, the path you take
is your own. Once again, it all sounds like some policy making to cover to
practice and put the blame on the therapist.


All kinds of policies get interpretted in all kinds of ways by all kinds
of
people. Though I'm not sure what right a therapist would have to
"recommend" an
abortion. But to say, "I think you should have an abortion" just isn't
a therapist's
job. Or have I misunderstood your meaning? :-?

I don't think the therapist was allowed to say "I think you should have an
abortion."
But can the therapist say "Have you considered having an abortion?"
The therapist [who I know as a friend, not as a client] would describe the
experience as a simple medical procedure and one whose psychological
reprecussions are far less severe than those of having a baby. That's her
belief, and I know she would be diplomatic in how she would present this
knowledge.



<snip>

she said that I should turn my problems over to My Higher Self! That
was even more laughable. I did not believe that in each of us, there is
something greater than that which we already are!


The whole point was that she was very ambigous about what
"The Higher Self" was exactly.
She originally said to turn my problems over to "A higher being". I told
her that I did not know what exactly was a higher being. Was it something
like a finite god. Or Appollo, Santa Claus, Elvis, Miss Cleo or
Voltaire's Flying Green Teapot?
That's when she told me that in each of us there is a Power greater than we
are. She told me "to think about it", closed the session and asked for her
copayment of $35.


The true mark of a civilized society is the ability to create an abstract
idea which will be defended at the cost to ourselves, liberty and
livelihood.
.



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