| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"stone" |
| Date: |
07 Jan 2005 12:07:49 AM |
| Object: |
reply re Christian History Council of Elvira |
Western World wrote in message
<8284-41DC718C-546@storefull-3176.bay.webtv.net>...
antiaging@ineedhits-mail.com (stone) wrote:
That is Roman Catholic history. Don't call
it Christian history. Quite a few protestants
have always contended that the Roman
catholic church is not a real Christian church
and never was one. Real christian churches
don't torture people and steal their stuff.
I disagree. The Bible sets a tone of religious intolerance and
violence. Christans were only following scripture when they killed
unbelievers. The OT calls for the death penalty for blashpemy and
unbelief. The Massachusetts Body of Liberties in 1641 (section 94)
actually made unbelief and blaspemy capital crimes. real Christians use
scripture. The fact is that Christianity is a very ugly and barbaric
religon that
Love your enemies. Do unto others as you would have them do to you.
The Son of Man came not to destroy men's lives but to save them.
These are teachings of Jesus in the New Testament.
Real christians follow the New Testament and real Christians do not murder
people.
Old Testament law does not apply in the New Testament. Killing heretics is
in the Old Testament. In the New Testament heretics are just to be rejected
from the church.
Killing heretics in the New Testament times is murder.
[Capital punishment for the crime of murder seems to be the only acceptable
capital punishment in the New Testament.]
If a religious body did kill people, in New Testament times, for crimes
other than murder, they were in error and disobeying the scriptures.
Real Christianity is a personal relationship between you and God. Real
Christianity is not following any church hierarchy. Real Christians believe
Jesus is Lord and have accepted Him as their Lord and Saviour, and have
repented and are trying to not do anything that the New Testament calls a
sin. Real Christians also follow what the New Testament says. If any
protestant or catholic or orthodox church leadership is disobeying what is
in the New Testament, a real Christian should not follow that church
leadership.
All throughout the OT, the god calls for the destruction of pagan altars
and temples. And their natural Groves, too. Thats exactly what Chriatian
did from Constantine onward.
In Christianity, Christians are to preach to those heathens idol
worshippers, and if they reject the preaching of the gospel Christians are
supposed to just let them alone.
Jesus said of false religious people, "let them alone. They be blind leaders
of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind then both shall fall into a
ditch."
Killing idol worshippers was for OT Jews, not NT Christians.
The NT sets the tone of religious intolerance by telling us that
unbelievers will be tortured in the lake of firte forever. Real
Christians were only following that tone when they burned people at the
stake. The mythologoical God of the Bible is an intolerant tyrant and
the believers were only following that God's tone.
Unbelievers will be tortured in the Lake of fire forever. That is the
judgement of God against them. Real christians are only supposed to preach
to them and let them decide if they will accept or reject the Gospel. Real
Christians are not supposed to kill them or forceably prevent them from
worshipping false gods. If they want to worship false gods, after the gospel
is preached to them, then let them go to hell. They are not worthy to become
angels in heaven and not worthy to be saved. The preaching of Christianity
is a test to see who is worthy or not worthy. Vengeance is mine, I will
repay says the Lord. God is the one that is going to punish them. Christians
are not supposed to do it. Any Church that called itself Christian and
killed or punished idol worshippers because they refused to repent, was
disobeying the New Testament. God is the one who does the punishing.
Jesus said there are MANY who call themselves Christians and are not real
Christians.
On the Judgement day He will tell them to depart, He never knew them.
In fact there was a Protestant inquisition after the reformation.
Calvinists alone burned over 100,000 at the stake in germany, Engoland
and Scotland. Calvin murdered dissewnters in his geneva theocracy.
Reformationists sacked and plundered catholic Churches. In Sweden, the
Protestant regiome confiscated all the Catholic churches in mush the
same way the early Christian emperors confiscated Pagan properties. In
some areas in Europe, it became illegal to say Mass. The punishment
could be death and that is in line with the Bible's capital punishments
for the wring religion. Its an unjust, immoral and violent God that is
in the Bible so we should expect it's believers to be just as violent
and immoral.
If protestant churches did do that then they were in error. It is a sin to
steal people' goods or murder them. Like I said, there are many who think
they are Christians that are not real Christians. Any real Christians in
those churches probably either opposed that or left those churches. Real
Christianity is a personal relationship between you and God. It is not
following any church hierarchy whether protestant or catholic or othodox.
All Christianity is supposed to obey the New Testament. Any church
leadership that is disobeying the New Testament, Christians are not supposed
to follow that church leadership.
Its nonsense to say Catholics werent real Christians. Without catholics
and their tyranny, Christianity would have spintered into a thousand
sects and be just another one of the mystery cults with a "godman". Of
course, the only cuilt that was intolerant of others, which was why
several emperors decide that Christianity was uncivilizing and disrupted
the public order found in a long religiously diverse society.
Roman catholicism is pagan religious teachings mixed with the teachings of
Christianity.
Let a Cardinal tell you this himself:
Cardinal Newman admits in his book that; the "temples,
incense, oil lamps, votive offerings, holy water, Holidays, and
seasons of devotion, processions, blessings of the fields,
sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure (of priests, munks and nuns),
images, and statues... are all of PAGAN ORIGIN." The Development of the
Christian Religion Cardinal Newman
p.359
Constantine mixed pagan Roman religion with Christianity, to try to make the
New state religion acceptable to the pagan roman. This pagan/christian
mixture is Roman catholicism. God does not accept pagan teachings.
Real Christianity is based on the New Testament without the pagan teachings
mixed in it.
The protestants follow the New Testament much more closely and there is a
much higher percentage of real Christians in the protestant churches.
The world would have been much better off without Christianity and its
to bad the violwence and repression worked to wipe out pagan beliefs in
a richly diverse world of late antiquity.
The world would be much better off with real Christianity. Roman Catholicism
is not real Christianity, neither is the Russian or Greek orthodox, or the
anglican.
It was prophicied in the Bible that false religious teachers would arise
among the Christians and many would follow their evil ways. And by reason of
them, true Christianity would be evil spoken of, as you are trying to do
now.
I repeat. The real Christians did not do that evil you are talking about.
False Christians did it, who think they are Christians but really aren't.
2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as
there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable
heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves
swift destruction.
2 Peter 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom
the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
The Bible is clear that believing makes one a Christian regardless of
the trappings one surrounds one's self with. Besides. ritual has always
enhanced religious feelings.
Protestants have been no less intolerant than Catholics. Like Catholics,
they have a history of sexism, support for slavery, homophobia and
cruelty in disproportonate punishments.
In pagan times, worship meant singing and dancing. That really bothered
Ambrose and Crysostom. That is precisely what we see in Protestant
fundamentalism.
What pagans had was very human. Catholics incorporated it in many ways
because they simply couldnt stop paganism. It came to force to get the
job done. Protestants are no different in their religious intolerance
and their bigotry. The
My view is that religions cloud and sometimes poison the logical parts
of the mind.
I am going to be writing on the Protestant Inquiisition soon and will
post it here when done. I have spent the last year studying the 4th-6th
centuries and will be skipping to the Reformation and the present
fascist styled Protestantism that is attacking the principoles of
liberty.
Although I just might do Gregory first. What a scoundrel!
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
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| Title: Re: reply re Christian History Council of Elvira |
07 Jan 2005 12:14:48 AM |
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Personally I think The Mistress of The Dark would be an excellent choice to
run the council.
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
.
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
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| Title: Re: reply re Christian History Council of Elvira |
07 Jan 2005 01:56:49 AM |
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"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in message
news:mfednUhwCMlbSUDcRVn-tA@io.com...
Personally I think The Mistress of The Dark would be an excellent choice
to
run the council.
Allow me to add: http://www.elvira.com/
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
.
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