Repost from 2001 updated for VT: School shootings linked to political and religious conservatism



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "satyr"
Date: 20 Apr 2007 12:46:27 AM
Object: Repost from 2001 updated for VT: School shootings linked to political and religious conservatism
I originally researched this issue in 2001 and found some interesting
trends in the high school mass shootings of the late 1990s. The VT
shootings bear some commonalities and some differences from the high
school shootings.
The most notable commonality is that like 8 our 10 of the high school
shootings, Seung-Hui grew up in a conservative Republican district.
The Congressional Representative for Centreville, VA where Seung-Hui
lived before going to VT is Republican Thomas M. Davis. As Chairman
of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, Davis
signed a subpoena ordering the appearance of Schiavo, her husband,
Michael, and her doctors. The subpoenas specified that the witnesses
bring to the hearing "all medical and other equipment that provides
nutrition and hydration...in its current and continuing state of
operations." Davis issued a joint statement with House Majority Leader
Tom DeLay (R-Texas) and Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert
(R-Illinois) that stated: "This inquiry should give hope to Terri, her
parents and friends, and the millions of people throughout the world
who are praying for her safety. This fight is not over."
Today they reported that Seung-Hui was taunted and bullied in high
school as was the case with many of the high school shooters. This
seems to go hand-in-hand with being a conservative Republican
district.
On Sat, 17 Mar 2001 23:55:46 -0600,
(satyr)
wrote:
If we learned anything in the last election, it is that the US is very
closely divided along political lines. Not only was the Presidential
race the closest in history, but the Senate has an unprecedented 50:50
split and the House is almost as closely divided.
One of the two parties, the Republicans, holds an overwhelming claim
to the large segment of conservative religious extremists. These
conservative Christians often blame all of society's problems on the
supposed lack of religious morals in America. One such problem is the
relatively recent rash of a certain type of school shooting. This
particular type of shooting is defined by several characteristics
which are atypical of the more common but less reported types of
school violence. Specifically, they usually have several of the
following characteristics:
1. They are committed by white, middle or upper (economic) class
students in a predominantly white, middle or upper class school.
2. They are commonly committed by an outcast or less than socially
adept student who had been 'picked on' by classmates.
3. The shooter often has warned several individuals of what is going
to happen. However, he (all have been male so far) has never been
treated nor likely ever recommended for treatment for mental or
emotional problems.
4. Despite #3, the actual event comes out of the blue, not being
provoked by any immediately proceeding event. Nor is it apparently
related to any particular event that may have occurred in the past.
5. The shooter fires many rounds, often from more than one gun.
Multiple people are hit.
6. The shooter may have a hit list. Nonetheless, targets of
opportunity are fired upon.
7. In two cases so far, a pair of shooters have been involved which
is highly unusual in 'anti-social' mass murders. One of these ended
in a double suicide, a highly unusual outcome.
It would certainly be too simplistic to say that these are all cases
of outcasts lashing back at the society which has tormented them.
Nonetheless, it does have that flavor. If we look at the local
communities that surrounded these shootings, we might gain additional
insight into this phenomenon.
One gauge of the nature of the community is to look at the person they
sent to Congress. Were they Republican or Democratic? How do they
score on the Christian Coalition vote litmus test?
I have researched this issue and here are my findings:
Event # Repre- CC vote
# Date Location victims sentative Party score Notes
1 10/1/1997 Pearl, MS 10 Pickoring R 100% (_1_)
2 12/1/1997 West Paducah, KY 8 Whitfield R 100%
3 3/24/1998 Jonesboro, AR 15 Berry D 25% (_2_)
4 4/24/1998 Edinboror, PA 3 English R 92%
5 5/19/1998 Fayetteville, TN 1 Hillenry R 100% (_3_)
6 5/21/1998 Springfield, OR 26 Defasio D 8% (_4_)
7 4/20/1999 Littleton, CO 37 Tancredo/ R NA
Hefley R NA (_5_)
8 5/20/1999 Conyers, GA 6 Linder R 100%
9 2000 Fort Gibson, OK 4 Coburn R 100% (_6_)
10 3/5/2001 Santee, CA several Hunter R 100% (_7_)


(_1_) Killed mother.
(_2_) Two shooters
(_3_) Tentatively included because it was listed with other cases
of this type in one source. No further information was available
(_4_) Shooter killed both parents. Many other unusual aspects to
this case as featured in an extensive Frontline report. Boy had
extensive treatment for emotional problems.
(_5_) Columbine has become the poster school for this phenomenon.
Two shooters, the most victims and the double suicide make this case
stand out. The school divides two conservative Congressional
districts.
(_6_) Exact date unknown.
(_7_) Exact number of victims unknown.
So all but two cases occurred in conservative Republican districts.
(And one of the two exceptions was in the Bible Belt as were many of
the others.) Draw your own conclusions, but for me, this is a
phenomenon closely linked with religious conservatism.
--
satyr #1953
Chairman, EAC Church Taxation Subcommittee
Director, Gideon Bible Alternative Fuel Project
Supervisor, EAC Fossil Casting Lab
.

User: "Luree"

Title: Re: Repost from 2001 updated for VT: School shootings linked to political and religious conservatism 22 Apr 2007 03:16:04 PM
Excellent observation. Can you get one of the university social
sciences to do a follow up study?
On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 00:46:27 -0500, satyr <
>
wrote:

I originally researched this issue in 2001 and found some interesting
trends in the high school mass shootings of the late 1990s. The VT
shootings bear some commonalities and some differences from the high
school shootings.

The most notable commonality is that like 8 our 10 of the high school
shootings, Seung-Hui grew up in a conservative Republican district.
The Congressional Representative for Centreville, VA where Seung-Hui
lived before going to VT is Republican Thomas M. Davis. As Chairman
of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, Davis
signed a subpoena ordering the appearance of Schiavo, her husband,
Michael, and her doctors. The subpoenas specified that the witnesses
bring to the hearing "all medical and other equipment that provides
nutrition and hydration...in its current and continuing state of
operations." Davis issued a joint statement with House Majority Leader
Tom DeLay (R-Texas) and Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert
(R-Illinois) that stated: "This inquiry should give hope to Terri, her
parents and friends, and the millions of people throughout the world
who are praying for her safety. This fight is not over."

Today they reported that Seung-Hui was taunted and bullied in high
school as was the case with many of the high school shooters. This
seems to go hand-in-hand with being a conservative Republican
district.



On Sat, 17 Mar 2001 23:55:46 -0600,

(satyr)
wrote:


If we learned anything in the last election, it is that the US is very
closely divided along political lines. Not only was the Presidential
race the closest in history, but the Senate has an unprecedented 50:50
split and the House is almost as closely divided.

One of the two parties, the Republicans, holds an overwhelming claim
to the large segment of conservative religious extremists. These
conservative Christians often blame all of society's problems on the
supposed lack of religious morals in America. One such problem is the
relatively recent rash of a certain type of school shooting. This
particular type of shooting is defined by several characteristics
which are atypical of the more common but less reported types of
school violence. Specifically, they usually have several of the
following characteristics:

1. They are committed by white, middle or upper (economic) class
students in a predominantly white, middle or upper class school.

2. They are commonly committed by an outcast or less than socially
adept student who had been 'picked on' by classmates.

3. The shooter often has warned several individuals of what is going
to happen. However, he (all have been male so far) has never been
treated nor likely ever recommended for treatment for mental or
emotional problems.

4. Despite #3, the actual event comes out of the blue, not being
provoked by any immediately proceeding event. Nor is it apparently
related to any particular event that may have occurred in the past.

5. The shooter fires many rounds, often from more than one gun.
Multiple people are hit.

6. The shooter may have a hit list. Nonetheless, targets of
opportunity are fired upon.

7. In two cases so far, a pair of shooters have been involved which
is highly unusual in 'anti-social' mass murders. One of these ended
in a double suicide, a highly unusual outcome.

It would certainly be too simplistic to say that these are all cases
of outcasts lashing back at the society which has tormented them.
Nonetheless, it does have that flavor. If we look at the local
communities that surrounded these shootings, we might gain additional
insight into this phenomenon.

One gauge of the nature of the community is to look at the person they
sent to Congress. Were they Republican or Democratic? How do they
score on the Christian Coalition vote litmus test?

I have researched this issue and here are my findings:

Event # Repre- CC vote
# Date Location victims sentative Party score Notes

1 10/1/1997 Pearl, MS 10 Pickoring R 100% (_1_)
2 12/1/1997 West Paducah, KY 8 Whitfield R 100%
3 3/24/1998 Jonesboro, AR 15 Berry D 25% (_2_)
4 4/24/1998 Edinboror, PA 3 English R 92%
5 5/19/1998 Fayetteville, TN 1 Hillenry R 100% (_3_)
6 5/21/1998 Springfield, OR 26 Defasio D 8% (_4_)
7 4/20/1999 Littleton, CO 37 Tancredo/ R NA
Hefley R NA (_5_)
8 5/20/1999 Conyers, GA 6 Linder R 100%
9 2000 Fort Gibson, OK 4 Coburn R 100% (_6_)
10 3/5/2001 Santee, CA several Hunter R 100% (_7_)


(_1_) Killed mother.
(_2_) Two shooters
(_3_) Tentatively included because it was listed with other cases
of this type in one source. No further information was available
(_4_) Shooter killed both parents. Many other unusual aspects to
this case as featured in an extensive Frontline report. Boy had
extensive treatment for emotional problems.
(_5_) Columbine has become the poster school for this phenomenon.
Two shooters, the most victims and the double suicide make this case
stand out. The school divides two conservative Congressional
districts.
(_6_) Exact date unknown.
(_7_) Exact number of victims unknown.

So all but two cases occurred in conservative Republican districts.
(And one of the two exceptions was in the Bible Belt as were many of
the others.) Draw your own conclusions, but for me, this is a
phenomenon closely linked with religious conservatism.

*
Nice chatting with you! Luree
*********************************
Drop by for a visit http://www.islandnet.com/~luree
Save a critter http://www.duncanspca.com
.
User: ""

Title: Re: Repost from 2001 updated for VT: School shootings linked to political and religious conservatism 05 May 2007 05:54:59 PM
On Apr 23, 6:16 am, Luree <l...@shaw.ca> wrote:

Excellent observation. Can you get one of the university social
sciences to do a follow up study?

On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 00:46:27 -0500, satyr <

>
wrote:





I originally researched this issue in 2001 and found some interesting
trends in the high school mass shootings of the late 1990s. The VT
shootings bear some commonalities and some differences from the high
school shootings.


The most notable commonality is that like 8 our 10 of the high school
shootings, Seung-Hui grew up in a conservative Republican district.
The Congressional Representative for Centreville, VA where Seung-Hui
lived before going to VT is Republican Thomas M. Davis. As Chairman
of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, Davis
signed a subpoena ordering the appearance of Schiavo, her husband,
Michael, and her doctors. The subpoenas specified that the witnesses
bring to the hearing "all medical and other equipment that provides
nutrition and hydration...in its current and continuing state of
operations." Davis issued a joint statement with House Majority Leader
Tom DeLay (R-Texas) and Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert
(R-Illinois) that stated: "This inquiry should give hope to Terri, her
parents and friends, and the millions of people throughout the world
who are praying for her safety. This fight is not over."


Today they reported that Seung-Hui was taunted and bullied in high
school as was the case with many of the high school shooters. This
seems to go hand-in-hand with being a conservative Republican
district.


On Sat, 17 Mar 2001 23:55:46 -0600,

(satyr)
wrote:


If we learned anything in the last election, it is that the US is very
closely divided along political lines. Not only was the Presidential
race the closest in history, but the Senate has an unprecedented 50:50
split and the House is almost as closely divided.


One of the two parties, the Republicans, holds an overwhelming claim
to the large segment of conservative religious extremists. These
conservative Christians often blame all of society's problems on the
supposed lack of religious morals in America. One such problem is the
relatively recent rash of a certain type of school shooting. This
particular type of shooting is defined by several characteristics
which are atypical of the more common but less reported types of
school violence. Specifically, they usually have several of the
following characteristics:


1. They are committed by white, middle or upper (economic) class
students in a predominantly white, middle or upper class school.


2. They are commonly committed by an outcast or less than socially
adept student who had been 'picked on' by classmates.


3. The shooter often has warned several individuals of what is going
to happen. However, he (all have been male so far) has never been
treated nor likely ever recommended for treatment for mental or
emotional problems.


4. Despite #3, the actual event comes out of the blue, not being
provoked by any immediately proceeding event. Nor is it apparently
related to any particular event that may have occurred in the past.


5. The shooter fires many rounds, often from more than one gun.
Multiple people are hit.


6. The shooter may have a hit list. Nonetheless, targets of
opportunity are fired upon.


7. In two cases so far, a pair of shooters have been involved which
is highly unusual in 'anti-social' mass murders. One of these ended
in a double suicide, a highly unusual outcome.


It would certainly be too simplistic to say that these are all cases
of outcasts lashing back at the society which has tormented them.
Nonetheless, it does have that flavor. If we look at the local
communities that surrounded these shootings, we might gain additional
insight into this phenomenon.


One gauge of the nature of the community is to look at the person they
sent to Congress. Were they Republican or Democratic? How do they
score on the Christian Coalition vote litmus test?


I have researched this issue and here are my findings:


Event # Repre- CC vote
# Date Location victims sentative Party score Notes


1 10/1/1997 Pearl, MS 10 Pickoring R 100% (_1_)
2 12/1/1997 West Paducah, KY 8 Whitfield R 100%
3 3/24/1998 Jonesboro, AR 15 Berry D 25% (_2_)
4 4/24/1998 Edinboror, PA 3 English R 92%
5 5/19/1998 Fayetteville, TN 1 Hillenry R 100% (_3_)
6 5/21/1998 Springfield, OR 26 Defasio D 8% (_4_)
7 4/20/1999 Littleton, CO 37 Tancredo/ R NA
Hefley R NA (_5_)
8 5/20/1999 Conyers, GA 6 Linder R 100%
9 2000 Fort Gibson, OK 4 Coburn R 100% (_6_)
10 3/5/2001 Santee, CA several Hunter R 100% (_7_)


(_1_) Killed mother.
(_2_) Two shooters
(_3_) Tentatively included because it was listed with other cases
of this type in one source. No further information was available
(_4_) Shooter killed both parents. Many other unusual aspects to
this case as featured in an extensive Frontline report. Boy had
extensive treatment for emotional problems.
(_5_) Columbine has become the poster school for this phenomenon.
Two shooters, the most victims and the double suicide make this case
stand out. The school divides two conservative Congressional
districts.
(_6_) Exact date unknown.
(_7_) Exact number of victims unknown.


So all but two cases occurred in conservative Republican districts.
(And one of the two exceptions was in the Bible Belt as were many of
the others.) Draw your own conclusions, but for me, this is a
phenomenon closely linked with religious conservatism.


*
Nice chatting with you! Luree
*********************************
Drop by for a visit http://www.islandnet.com/~luree
Save a critter http://www.duncanspca.com- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I put this onto a religious thread, and asked what ideas I could get
to refute the accusation that religious conservatism is the cause of
the school shootings. One reply was as follows -
"ny comments I can use to refute their arguments?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would ask them how, exectly, Christian fundamentalism is in any way
related since, by their own claim, religion is meaningless. If, as
atheists claim, we are nothing more than the sum of our chemical
reactions. So, this is nothing more than erroneous chemical firings. "
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And Jesus said to them: Come after me, and I will make you to become
fishers of men.
.
User: "Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer"

Title: Re: Repost from 2001 updated for VT: School shootings linked to political and religious conservatism 05 May 2007 11:33:07 PM
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
The answer is obvious. Since hard-line Atheism is the ONLY religion
taught in America's public schools, barring all other religions bar
none, and most especially barring Judeo-Christian teachings, to wit...
Thus, when Conservatives, which used to typically be [R]epublicans
(not any more, sadly) have represented their electorate in Congress,
the aforesaid's children in public schools have shown a substantial
increase in real (resulting in paranoid) schizophrenia, confused by
Conservative values alleged by their politicians, versus the Liberal
ergo Anti-Christian doctrines strictly taught in the public schools.
So, be careful what you wish for, buckwheat. You just might GET IT!
Ex-Republican,
Daniel Joseph Min
http://www.2hot2cool.com/11/danieljosephmin/
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
iQA/AwUBRj1ShpljD7YrHM/nEQJpQQCeP7mJCIpaGDQX67sP5RWjxyzNxqMAoMzV
SJAyExA51ZXahBWBbXFfz3D/
=DjPz
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
.
User: "NotX"

Title: Re: Repost from 2001 updated for VT: School shootings linked to political and religious conservatism 06 May 2007 10:33:14 AM
On 6 May 2007 06:33:07 +0200, Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer
<anonymous@remailer.cyberiade.it> wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

The answer is obvious. Since hard-line Atheism is the ONLY religion
taught in America's public schools

LOL again.
[snip]
--
"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy
.

User: ""

Title: Re: Repost from 2001 updated for VT: School shootings linked to political and religious conservatism 06 May 2007 12:09:04 AM
On May 6, 2:33 pm, Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer
<anonym...@remailer.cyberiade.it> wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

The answer is obvious. Since hard-line Atheism is the ONLY religion
taught in America's public schools, barring all other religions bar
none, and most especially barring Judeo-Christian teachings, to wit...

Thus, when Conservatives, which used to typically be [R]epublicans
(not any more, sadly) have represented their electorate in Congress,
the aforesaid's children in public schools have shown a substantial
increase in real (resulting in paranoid) schizophrenia, confused by
Conservative values alleged by their politicians, versus the Liberal
ergo Anti-Christian doctrines strictly taught in the public schools.

So, be careful what you wish for, buckwheat. You just might GET IT!

Ex-Republican,
Daniel Joseph Minhttp://www.2hot2cool.com/11/danieljosephmin/

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
iQA/AwUBRj1ShpljD7YrHM/nEQJpQQCeP7mJCIpaGDQX67sP5RWjxyzNxqMAoMzV
SJAyExA51ZXahBWBbXFfz3D/
=DjPz
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

An ex-Republican?? You mean atheists actually accept that atheists can
change political affiliation, but never become religious? Now that's
schizophrenic.
.


User: "satyr"

Title: Re: Repost from 2001 updated for VT: School shootings linked to political and religious conservatism 12 May 2007 04:17:45 PM
On 5 May 2007 15:54:59 -0700,
wrote:


I put this onto a religious thread, and asked what ideas I could get
to refute the accusation that religious conservatism is the cause of
the school shootings. One reply was as follows -

"ny comments I can use to refute their arguments?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I would ask them how, exectly, Christian fundamentalism is in any way
related since, by their own claim, religion is meaningless.

I don't think many atheists would say religion is meaningless in the
sense that it has no influence on the world. I would cite 9-11 as
clear evidence that religion is not meaningless in that sense.

If, as
atheists claim, we are nothing more than the sum of our chemical
reactions. So, this is nothing more than erroneous chemical firings. "

Erroneous chemical firings kill lots of people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_City_Disaster


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And Jesus said to them: Come after me, and I will make you to become
fishers of men.

--
satyr #1953
Chairman, EAC Church Taxation Subcommittee
Director, Gideon Bible Alternative Fuel Project
Supervisor, EAC Fossil Casting Lab
.

User: "Al Klein"

Title: Re: Repost from 2001 updated for VT: School shootings linked to political and religious conservatism 05 May 2007 11:18:06 PM
On 5 May 2007 15:54:59 -0700,
wrote:

And Jesus said to them: Come after me, and I will make you to become
fishers of men.

I think that was "fissures of men".
.
User: "Robibnikoff"

Title: Re: Repost from 2001 updated for VT: School shootings linked to political and religious conservatism 07 May 2007 02:29:27 PM
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:tmlq33dsiuem0nif6s7p3pm2ume0p7jl0c@4ax.com...

On 5 May 2007 15:54:59 -0700,

wrote:

And Jesus said to them: Come after me, and I will make you to become
fishers of men.


I think that was "fissures of men".

Ouch! :)
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
.
User: "Al Klein"

Title: Re: Repost from 2001 updated for VT: School shootings linked to political and religious conservatism 07 May 2007 07:49:28 PM
On Mon, 7 May 2007 15:29:27 -0400, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:

"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:tmlq33dsiuem0nif6s7p3pm2ume0p7jl0c@4ax.com...

On 5 May 2007 15:54:59 -0700,

wrote:

And Jesus said to them: Come after me, and I will make you to become
fishers of men.


I think that was "fissures of men".


Ouch! :)

He meant he would make them become anal sphincters. And he did.
.
User: "Robibnikoff"

Title: Re: Repost from 2001 updated for VT: School shootings linked to political and religious conservatism 08 May 2007 11:20:16 AM
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:r7iv33l2oattdj7bavnnmc5paj2opjgsio@4ax.com...

On Mon, 7 May 2007 15:29:27 -0400, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:

"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:tmlq33dsiuem0nif6s7p3pm2ume0p7jl0c@4ax.com...

On 5 May 2007 15:54:59 -0700,

wrote:

And Jesus said to them: Come after me, and I will make you to become
fishers of men.


I think that was "fissures of men".


Ouch! :)


He meant he would make them become anal sphincters. And he did.

Sadly, you're right :P
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
.







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